tv MSNBC Live MSNBC June 21, 2020 12:00pm-1:00pm PDT
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good to be with you on theirs father's day from headquarters in new york. today, in cleanup mode. the president furious after what his team hope would be a trif m triumphant rally. and comments, why the arena wasn't full despite mr. trump winning that state in 2016 by 26 points. mr. trump has balked at wearing face masks. the crowd largely followed that lead, nor much social distancing, if any. covid-19 has killed more than 120,000 americans. but the president told the crowd he had pushed for less testing. >> when you test -- when you do testing to that extent, you are going to find more cases, find more cases. so i said to my people, slow the testing down, please. >> officials later saying that was a joke. though the administration was
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slow in ruling out testing. white house peter navarro didn't seem to be joking when he said this. >> china created the pandemic. hid the virus, created that virus and sent over hundreds of thousands of chinese citizens here to spread that around and around the world. whether they did that on purpose, that's an open question, but that's a fact. >> so basically, china turned some of its people into biological weapons and unleashed them in the u.s. to the best of our knowledge, there's no proof of that. but we can prove what we saw with our own eyes, or perhaps did not see. and we did not see the blk center in tulsa packed for the president's rally. that venue holds about 19,000 people. tulsa's fire marshal says abo about,200 atteabout 6,200. that left the president furious. the campaign blaming protesters for keeping people out.
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fox neuews notes there is no evidence of that being a serious problem. >> showing pictures showing big, empty areas, frankly, makes you guys look silly when you deny the reality of what happened. >> and the white house is also managing the controversy over the recently fired u.s. attorney for the southern district of new york. some house democrats say they have questions about that. >> well, it's my hope at some point the judiciary committee will hear from the former u.s. attorney for the southern district of new york, mr. berman, because i think he has a lot to say about a continuing pattern of chaos, crisis and corruption that we have seen from the trump administration. >> but lettuce begin with the la -- let us begin with the rally and how they're dealing with the 235 fallout. in tulsa, our reporters, and josh letterman at the white
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house. josh, start with you. last night the president claimed he directed a slowdown of testing. how is the administration responding? >> reporter: trump's advisers are brushing it off as a joke or a light-hearted moment with one adviser saying the president made these remarks in jest as way to point out what the president used as the ridiculous way that the news media has covered the coronavirus pandemic. but we should point out, joshua, for the family of the, some 120,000 americans who have died so far of coronavirus, it's not a laughing matter. >> josh without trade adviser peter navarro made bold claims. here's agents more what he told cnn. >> china created the pandemic hid the virus created that virus and sent over hundreds of thousands of chinese citizens here to spread that around and around the world. whether they did that on prurpoe is an open question, but that's
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a fact. they are guilty until proven innocent because of what we know. they killed over 100,000 americans. >> looks on jake tapper's face, suggesting the incredulity. accusing china of attacking the utes with a biological weapon. >> at least peter navarro is. he's known for making incendiary comments about china. president trump shares the idea of shifting responsible for the pandemic and number of deaths seen in the united states to china and away from his own administration. when it comes to peter navarro sayings an open question whether chine ma did it intentionally, it's actually not an open question as far as the u.s. intelligence community is concerned. the director of u.s.
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intelligence put out a statement way back in april evidence showed this was not man-made or genetically engineereds. >> send theal biological weapon is an act of war. are they actually saying they're going to do something? >> reporter: we have to draw distinctions between different parts of the administration. you have peter navarro out there on television today saying it on the record but he's the president's trade adviser. meantime, you still have director of national intelligence saying something quite differently. so oftentimes what we see in the trump administration is different voices saying things that conflict with each other, and it leaves all the rest of us trying to discern what the actual policy is. >> before i go to cal, josh, how is the president responding to the lackluster crowd numbers given how many the campaign hyped up the rally? at one point the campaign said 1 million people requested
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tickets? >> reporter: playing the blame game, actually protesters who blocked people from getting in to the facility. cal perry reporting that's not really what happened. also we see the campaign disputing the actual numbers here. although the fire department in tulsa said there were about 6,200 people who attended that rally. the campaign is saying today it was actually double. >> yeah. cal, let's get to that. the president's campaign blaming the protesters. today a statement from campaign manager brad parscale accused msnbc specifically of fearmongering, writing in part, "the fact is that a week's worth of the fake news media warning people away from the rally because of covid and protesters, covid protesters coupled with recent images of american cities on fire had a real impact on people bringing their families and children to the rally. msnbc was among outlet reporting that protesters even blocked entrances to the rally at times." cal, you were there.
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outside the arena. do the facts bear out the campaign's accusation? >> reporter: the age of spin. it's not spin. a lack of context. one of three entryways to the blk arena we saw black lives matter gathering near. police shut that entryway 15, 20 minutes maybe. slow walked the crowd back. the black lives matter protesters were vastly o outnumbered by trump supporters. grouping of sort of people verbally jawing at each other, some verbal confrontations. after 15 minutes the gates opened and police escorting and ushering people behind the lines to get them into the arena. trying to facilitate the event by the president. when the president arrived, reshut the gates. standard operating procedure for security reasons. a few hundred waiting to get in, once the president on the
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ground, all able to get in. we never saw anyone outside the arena saying i was unable to get in. bottom line, if you wanted to attend the rally last night in tulsa, you could do so. joshua? >> cal, the general sense you got from protesters there yesterday? most people seemed level-headed? >> reporter: yeah. absolutely. tulsa p.d. tweeting out the protest, completely peaceful, making they're way around the city. the only negative being traffic jams. i think people felt they had to come out, they had to counterprogram the president. he clearly chose tulsa. he originally chose it on juneteenth. you saw the rallies on juneteenth originally canceled taking part here in tulsa bus a purposeful move by the president. people here felt they had to come out. as far as beginning of that statement by brad parscale, yes, american cities on fire. a movement gaining from strength fighting for equal rights.
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choice to hold a rally in this city at this time was the trump campaign. >> and thank you both, gentlemen. the u.s. attorney in manhattan, jeffrey berman is now officially fired. attorney general william barr announced the form 8 termination after a standoff over berman's supposed resignation. barr claimed the u.s. attorney chose to step down. the u.s. attorney said that was not so. then barr released a statement accusing berman of choosing, in his words, public spectacle over public service. the attorney general added that as a result, he asked president trump to remove berman and the president agreed. berman was the u.s. attorney for the southern district of new york. his office oversaw investigations into several allies of mr. trump including rudy giuliani and michael cohen. the current deputy u.s. attorney audrey strauss will take the top
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job. all after another bombshell from the president's national security adviser, former, john bolton. in his book he claimed the president tried to interfere with berman's team investigating a turkish bank called hull bank as the request of turkey the president, erdogan. >> the president said to erdogan at one point, look, those prosecutors in new york are obama people. wait until i get my people in. and then we'll take care of this. i thought to myself, and i'm a department of justice alumnus myself, i've never heard any president say anything like that. ever. >> let's discuss it with former federal prosecutor and msnbc contributor joyce vance. good to see you. i wonder what's your reaction to these latest claims from john bolton? the idea that a foreign head of state, the president of turkey, no less who has his own issues with rule of law, would be able to get the southern district of new york to back off an
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investigation? that's kind of huge. >> yeah, you know, i think it's shocking but unsurprising at this point. because there appear to be a number of inappropriate influences that are at least being attempted to be brought to bear on doj, whether or not they're successful. and so we don't know the truth behind it. ambassador bolton the, his allegations but this is not the first time there's been some suggestion that the turkish government has tried to get charges related to this matter dropped. we know that the southern district of new york has broad jurisdiction over a number of issues, both matters that could relate to the president personally and his businesses, as well as these broader matters involving his foreign trading partners. >> how do you view berman's successor? senior counsel to mr. berman since 2018. used to be in charge of the
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south district office probes tied to trump. original replacement was chosen by william barr, it was jay clant head of securi clayton. audrey strauss what do you make of her? >> so the typical process when a u.s. attorney resigns for whatever reason is to have what in most ochss is called the first assistant what in the southern district is called the deputy, take over that role. this is a non-political person. they've not been put in place by this president. they may have been hired by the u.s. attorney but they're hired on a career track. so i think the measure of ms. strauss in one way of looking at her is that she has now been praised by both jeffrey berman, the trump appointee to the job, and preet bharara, the u.s. attorney for obama in the district of new york. someone who whom we can have confidence and going into the job with her eyes wide open knowing the type of pressure she's likely to face. >> james comey, former fbi
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director wrote an op-ed for the "washington post" about this focusing on timing. election coming up, firing announced on a friday night and noted how important the southern district of new york is to our entire system of justice. its district referred to as the mother court, as old as the constitution. it pre-dates the united states supreme court. joyce before i let you go, why should the fate of this district matter to people who don't live in new york? >> so you know it's something of a joke inside of the justice department and among the other u.s. attorneys. we call it the sovereign district of new york. and sometimes they don't follow some of the process rules, like the rest of us do. they might be more inclined to take action first and ask for permission second. so that sometimes breeds a little bit of uncertainty about their process, but to your point, the reason that they should be taken seriously is because of that legacy. not in spite of it.
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the reason the southern district of new york has that culture is because they're jurisdiction is so broad he can often get at issues that reach across the country. they're tremendously important to all of us. >> former u.s. attorney joyce vance and msnbc contributor, joyce, thanks very much. much appreciate. much more to come here on msnbc. what can be done to improve the relationship between police officers and communities of color? we talk to a former judge and police auditor who knows firsthand what it takes to reform a big city police department. plus, coronavirus cases are spiking in nearly two dozen states. they include oklahoma, where the president held that rally last night. our medical expert will weigh in on that coming up. when you h wayfair, you spend less and get way more. so you can bring your vision to life and save in more ways than one.
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democratic plan aims to ban chokeholds. republican plan disincentivize them. democrats propose to ban no-knock warrants. gop plan calls to report them. and qualified immunity from the democratic bill. not addressed in the republican bill. democrats propose create ag nationwide database. the gop plan requires shootings and use of force events are public. defending the gop legislation this morning -- >> we all want to ban chokeholds. we both know the state, the house and senate knows you can't ban local use of chokeholds or state use of chokeholds except for to compel behavior by the federal grants that come into play and by removing the federal grants you actually position those departments to change their behavior, change their policy. >> joining us now is ladoris
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cordell. retired california superior court judge and former police auditor in california. judge cordell, welcome. >> thank you so much, joshua. >> you have had experience with an array of different kinds of reforms at the san jose police department. how you and i first acquainted ourselves with one another years ago when i was just a cub reporter back in san francisco. give me an example of something you dealt with, with san jose p.d. that either of these proposals before congress might have helped with? >> sure. so when i was the independent police auditor one of the events tragic events that happened was the death of eric garner, and that was by use of a chokehold. so what we did in our office was immediately look at the duty manual that gives the guidance and direction to the san jose police department to determine if there were chokeholds provisions and found none.
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so our office then recommended adoption of a no chokeholds provision in the duty manual. and so we got resistance. we got pushback from the rank and file from the union, but eventually, that recommendation was adopted. not in exactly the form we wanted, but at least it was a step forward. >> did you get the sense san jose p.d. wanted to reform or that they tolerated reform? >> so when you talk about any police department, you talk, there are two different things. there is the command staff. chief and senior staff. and then the rank and file. that's the basically represented by the union. i don't know of any union that has ever filed a police reform that they liked. so the police unions are notorious for pushing back on reforms all the time. so it's very important when community pushes forward, it's a big help in getting these kinds of changes. any system is resistant to change and especially true in
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policing, and especially true when you have systemic racism which is in policing as in a lot of other places throughout this country, and a lot of other institutions there is a campaign. eight can't wait. some police departments and unions pledged to adoptincludes a number of policies to reduce police killings. how do you view this campaign? >> the "8 kcan't wait" is a goo thing. eight things the police department should do and it will make people immediately safer. the problem i see, "8 kcan't wait" is a gimmick. picked up as the fix what's wrong in policing. police department ace dopt dopts done. that's not true. you can't fix this with a quick fix.
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an example, san francisco has all of these items lifted on the "8 can't wait." all eight. at the same time the culture of the police department was such there was an, a nationwide news about this, that there was a racist homophobic texting scandal involving at least nine police officers in the san francisco police department. and that, again, was within the department, even though all of these eight items had been adopted by the police department. that's not wait to change the culture. >> and let me just be clear. we're talking about homophobic texts in the san francisco police department. i remember when that happened and it kind of, blue people minds for a minute and then it didn't blow people's minds. like, yes. this is a deepic systemic problem. before i let you go, in the rayshard brooks shooting, the legislation began when the police officers tried to arrest him, told he was sleeping in his car. briefly, if you were atlanta's
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independent auditor what would be your number one recommendation to atlanta p.d. be based on what happened? >> pick number one. again a number of things that happened that shouldn't have happened. but certainly just in terms of where the force was used, when you use a taser all the officers know, that when it's used in the probe mode, there are two wires that count and tme out and the s have to puncture the body in the muscle mass, torso, thigh to have affect and you have to be moving towards the person to fire the taser. when mr. brooks was running away and wildly firing off the taser, the probes are just shooting out into the air. the officers were not in any lethal danger. they couldn't have embedded them in their own bodies. so at that point, they were not in fear for their lives, and that's why the use of the lethal force is problematic.
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one other just quick thing. they got to the scene and saw mr. brooks was perhaps under the influence, because dispatch had said maybe he was under the influence. they suspected drunk driving. what i do not understand and found very strange, for someone they suspected drunk driving, they directed him to drive his car across the parking lot and to park it, in a parking space. to me made no sense at all. if you suspect someone of doing drunk driving, why would you then direct them to drive? >> yeah. >> so that ended up being, you know, a misdemeanor, committed in the presence of the officers because they actually saw him drive. had they not done that they would not have actually seen him drive and would have had to gather more information in order to get probable cause to arrest him. >> judge cordell, former independent police officer for the san jose police department. good to talk to you again. thank you very much. by the way -- >> thank you, joshua. >> by the way, please set your dvr for tonight's edition of
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"kasie d.c." prosecuting kkk members more the 1963 church bombing in birmingham and the bomber of an abortion clinic. that's here on msnbc tonight. up next, we focus on the coronavirus pandemic. restrictions are relaxing, but infections are resurging. we take you to a hot spot, north carolina where rural hospitals are struggling to hold on.
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[ chanting ] >> reporter: florida might be one of the country's newest coronavirus hot spots, but some folks desperate to get back to work are urging the state to allow all bars to reopen. >> they're opening casinos. but we can't serve a beer? >> reporter: those calls coming days after this hollywood, florida, social distancing fiasco and 16 jacksonville bar go eers contracteding court tv kvrn. >> thinking, it's not that serious and i got it. >> reporter: florida's governor ron desantis is acknowledging the surge and announced plans to step up enforcement of social distancing practice in bars and clubs. covid-19 is also spiking in arizona. the president will visit there tuesday. cases in arizona have passed 50,000. enough to leave this icu nurse feeling pretty overwhelmed. >> today's been interesting waking up to the news that masking is still a debate, in arizona. i don't understand it.
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it's -- as though people feel their freedom is stripped from them. get it. piece a cloth is on your face. it affects the way that you see yourself. i understand that. but -- there's -- so much more to this. >> basic health guidelines for coronavirus prevention have become somewhat political including in alabama. its caseload passed 30,000. >> the mask issue. unmasking tensions. in montgomery, alabama, where a proposed mandate failed in a deadlock. every council member voting no and every black council member, yes. >> the people you represent have been affected by covid-19, how could you tell them, no? >> and case are spiking in north carolina. that includes in the small town of mount airy on the virginia state line known as the birth
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andy griffith. mount airy we find nbc's jordan jackson. i'm sure that small-town charm wears off fast when a global pandemic hits the hospital there's? >> reporter: yeah, that's right. i really want to zero in how the surge in recent hospital acheses is impacting local communities and small hospitals like the one behind me. north carolina reached and all-time high of hospitalizations just yesterday and that number stands at 871 and here we're i am, the overall case count just continues to climb. now, my father is a doctor at this hospital. it has ten icu beds. i spoke to an emergency room physician earlier this morning treating patients here, and he told me one way in which coronavirus is impacting local hospitals. take a listen. the major cities have had an incredible spike in cases and incredible spike in use of their icu beds. we have had the problem here
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recently where we've had patients that really needed levels of care and services that are not offered in this community, and had a hard time finding those services at the major medical centers because they're full of covid patients. >> reporter: the doctor told me this morning for the first time this week he had a trauma patient come in to the hospital and had to wait two days before being transferred elsewhere in the state. >> that's incomes's jordan jackson joining us from mount airy, north carolina. the surging numbers did know deter the president from hitting the campaign trail last night nor prevent thousands of supporters filling an arena in tulsa, partially. get to dr. naz internationallna. before we talk about last night's rally, your reaction to the cases spiking nationwide. things hoping up, people sick of staying at home. is this inevitable? gone too far to turn it around?
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>> joshua, always the expectation were woe see a wave of transmission across the country. places that saw a lot of activity in the spring in the northeast in new jersey and new york are seeing now nicely a sustained decrease in transmission, but this was always the concern sort of like a little like a whack a mole, right? soon as one area is seen lower transition we'll see the virus spike in different parts of the country. i think it was completely expected. >> last night's rally defied the cdc guidelines on large gatherings. attendees asked to sign a waiver, and if they got very sick. not much social distancing, few face covering, but is in was one rally in one venue in one city in a vast country. so put this in perspective. how big an impact could this rally actually make in the larger national fight against
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covid-19? >> okay. let's compare and contrast what you saw with the protests. the last couple of weeks. thus far we haven't seen a complete uptick in the number of cases emerging from those cities that housed or that hosted those protest marches. but what was the key difference there? those protest marches can outdoors. people were able to keep on moving. many of them if not almost all of them, were masked, and they were able to maintain that social distancing. the concern with the rally last night is that it basically went against every single recommendationing that is put forth by the president's own public health experts. now, whether or not we're going to see an uptick or a spike in cases from that alone, you're right. it is a small number. it will be diluted with the rest of the country, but the problem is many of the folks who were it'sat that rally weren't necessarily from that area and they're
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flying home to their hometowns and potentially infecting other people pap note about the protests. remember, the people who are going get tested are going to be symptomatic in those first 14 days. people asymptomatic, still infected, still able to infect other people. we may not see a rise in cases for a number of weeks still. >> the president very glibly said he asked his team to slow down testing to reduce the official count of coronavirus cases. later said to be a joke. safe to say the administration is not going to push harder to expand testing. before i let you go, is testing most urgent of our needs compared to social distanning, face coving, finding vaccines and treatments? where does testing rank among our priorities? >> really, really good question. i argue it still remains in the top three most important things for fighting this pandemic. it is literally the first step and the most important first step to the public health
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approach of this. i will absolutely reaffirm the importance of masks. we've had a number of stud es just in the last week that show how important mask-wearing is, and i have to, while i have viewers here, again to say that the messaging from the president last night, it was completely consistent with his nonchalant tone he's had in other circumstances. this is an irresponsible kind of messaging. this is not what the public needs to hear. they will model behavior that they see and sort of echo what they hear. . >> nbc news medical contributor dr. natalie azar, thank you. looking ahead to tuesday's primary ahead in kentucky. louisville has one big precinct for all voter on election day. one. that is not the only issue voters might face. that's just ahead. stay close. sus mozzarella stick
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it's totally not the same without you. we miss your let's do this look and can't wait to get you back, so we've added temp checks, face coverings, social distancing and extra sanitizing to get the good times going again. we're finally back... and can't wait until you are too. some kentucky residents are understandably concerned about how voting will go in this tuesday's primary. this month the primary in georgia was a mess. long lines. a shortage of ballots. not enough voting machines. kentucky is preparing for what could be another problematic primary. according to the "washington post" the state usually has 3,700 polling places. on tuesday it will have fewer than 200.
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many people have ordered mail-in ballots. some of which have not arrived yet. joining us now, daniel durocher, political reporter for the "lexington herald leader" in kentucky. welcome. >> thanks for having me. >> how are voters feeling about all of these changes? >> so i think most voters are rather comfortable with it. one maybe you want to rely on local reporters more than national reporters on it, because in april the democratic governor and republican secretary of state actually came to this agreement where not only did they push back the election, but also said they were going to have an emphasis on absentee voting. right? they've made this massive push to try to get more people to vote by mail and even provided post ap for people to mail it in. so what we're seeing now is, we're seeing a way higher turnout of people requesting absentee ballots and able to mail it in, and also have accommodations for election day, and have had early voting going on all wait leading up to the election, i want to acknowledge the local perspective on this
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and i hear you as someone who spent 16 years of the importance of reporting on the ground. maybe help recontextualize this for us? jefferson county where louisville is harks more than 750,000 residents. one big in-person polling place like an xexpo center on electio day. how is that set up to make it work? >> there's a massive voting center. right? so you've -- it's the louisville exposition center. they've had people come in through the week, right? so the people have been doing early voting already and already kind of set it up so you'll be ale to socially distance with lines. the lines won't look like that, a little more spread out. they also are doing bussing. they're going to have free bussing to the polls people who, it's maybe a little more difficult to get to the xpo zigs cent -- exposition, hail be able to get there. also using the football stadium where university of kentucky
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plays as their large venue. basically county clerks told to anticipate a 50% crowd. 25% of that turnout by mail. 25% turnout in person. 25% turnout is about average for a primary election. 50% turnout is basically record turnout in a primary election. they're really kind of set up to accommodate these large number of people on election day using these really big venues. >> political reporter at "the lexington herald leader" way view from the ground. daniel thanks very much. >> thanks for having me. up next on this father's day, a black father and son talk about protests and policing. here's the thing. dad was a police officer and his son followed in his father footsteps. how do they view these protests and their profession? they may not be hydrated enough. wabba wabba!
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all the players, coaches, and referees joined in honoring the black lives matter movement by taking a knee 30 seconds before kickoff. teams have new uniforms, now each player has the phrase black lives matter above their number, as well as a badge on their right sleeves. referees are also wearing the symbol. by the way, newcastle won, 3-0. this year's father's day probably feels quite different. it's been disrupted by the coronavirus pandemic, and by historic uprisings. a group included lamont jones, whose son is a police officer, and they join us now to discuss their experiences.
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mr. jones sr., how are you navigating this moment, as a former officers and as a father of an officer? >> first, thank you for having us. it's quite nerve-racking, but the great thing is, i've had these conversations with my son recently. so he has great character and he's a professional. so his home, because, again, i remember what it was like going through a protest in new york city, and the effect that it had on me when a young black man raised a wallet and said to me, how can you be protecting me, when they're killing us? it shook me. but after that recent police incident, i called my son to see
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if he was okay. and to hear his voice that he was okay, meant the world to me. >> officer jones jr., what have the past few weeks meant for your relationship with your dad? >> they've meant a lot. i've been speaking with him on little things that have been going on. making sure i'm continuing on the correct route. it's been tough, being -- it's getting closer and closer to home. it's been tough lately. >> officer, what changes do you want made to prevent these killings? is there something from your experience in georgia that informs your thinking on what we should do now? >> the best answer i have is firsthand knowledge. because a lot of things, it's their first time going through it, and so they don't have the correct training. so the best way to learn is
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hands-on situations. >> mr. jones sr., how have the riots over george floyd, breonna taylor, and others affected you? >> unfortunately, they are reocc reoccurring. how it's affected me, it's given me the opportunity to have these conversations with my children as well as, you know, with the organization, we work a lot in the community. it gives us the opportunity to go and be that voice. a lot of people did not know that i was an officer. when they found out that i was an officer, now i'm talking to them from an officer's perspective, the bottom line is, we love the community. we love the people that we encounter every day. and at the end of the day, we all want to go home to our family, to our loved ones, in
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the same condition or better than when we left. >> very briefly, officer jones, what is the most important thing that your father taught you that helps you be a good police officer? >> to always remain professional, no matter what. >> and mr. jones jr., i can't end this conversation without giving you a chance to brag on your boy just a minute. how proud are you of your son for being a police officer? >> i'm super proud, i love him to death, and also to life. to want to go in dad's footsteps means the world to me. i'll sum it up there. >> gentleman, happy father's day to you both, and thank you for making time for us. >> thank you. up next, you'll hear from california congresswoman norma
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be a bust. a smaller turnout in oklahoma for the president's first campaign-style rally since the coronavirus crisis began. despite the repeated claims that 1 million people had reserved tickets, and were expected to pack the bok center, the actual crowd was only about 6,200 people. president trump attempted to blame the lack of attendance on the protests happening outside. inside, he attempted to fire up the crowd with some familiar incendiary rhetoric. >> the unhinged left-wing mob is trying to desecrate our beautiful monuments. i can name kung flu, i can name -- [ booing ] >> with me is cal perry, on the ground i
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