a smaller turnout in oklahoma for the president's first campaign-style rally since the coronavirus crisis began. despite the repeated claims that 1 million people had reserved tickets, and were expected to pack the bok center, the actual crowd was only about 6,200 people. president trump attempted to blame the lack of attendance on the protests happening outside. inside, he attempted to fire up the crowd with some familiar incendiary rhetoric. >> the unhinged left-wing mob is trying to desecrate our beautiful monuments. i can name kung flu, i can name -- [ booing ] >> with me is cal perry, on the ground in tulsa.

also we have michael herriot. and dr. kavita patel. cal, let's start with you. we saw what was happening inside the arena. but what was going on outside with the claims that people were blocked from attending? >> there were three entryways to the bok arena. police were funneling people through one of these three entry points. for about 20 minutes, protesters were meeting the trump supporters there, and they were having verbal confrontations. after they reopened that gate, they were escorting them and taking them in. the narrative that somehow protesters were impeding people from getting to the rally is simply not true. once the gates were open, people

had an ample amount of time to get through. in fact, they shut it down for the president to arrive, and then reopened it. there was nobody walking around wishing they had gotten in. if you wanted to get in, you could have. >> michael, i don't think anyone was expecting the president to issue a message of unity, but he actually doubled down on a lot of the rhetoric we saw him use four years ago. is any of that surprising? and what does it tell you about the way he's thinking about his campaign going into november? >> first of all, let's be honest, this wasn't about a campaign. this was about trump's ego. i don't know how he translates these lackluster rallies into votes. it's just about feeding his ego. he basically played a remix of

his old hits. you know, he went from lock her up to thugs to, you know, the chinese flu. he went through every racist hit he could, and it was because he had been longing to get out there and play to his base, get them some red meat. it wasn't for votes. it was because -- this is how he re-energizes himself. this is why he wanted to be president, so he could have the biggest stage, the bully pulpit that we know the president has. >> and there are certainly a lot of sidebars that the president ended up speaking about himself, more than any of the issues that are facing the country. at the same time, i think the campaign imagined this to be about mobilization, about really exciting their base.

did it miss the mark? >> well, by their own standards, it missed the mark. the president and his campaign manager were talking about the fact that 800,000 to 1 million people had signed up for tickets. they were hyping it to be a massive turnout, but it fell short of their mark. this time, only 6,200 people showed up. there's no shame in only drawing 6,200 people to a rally in the middle of a pandemic. but president trump has actively put this issue on the table with crowd size. the twin challenges for the president running on the strength of the economy, crushed by the coronavirus, and running on the strength of his rallies, which is hard to deliver. his base is older, more likely to be at risk from the coronavirus, and lives in rural

areas for the most part, so they'll have to drive in. so the challenges are piling up for the president. >> we're all looking at the images from the inside of the arena, people standing shoulder to shoulder, not a lot of social distancing, i also did not see a ton of masks. was there any effort to give masks, have people wear masks, or to impose any type of social distancing guidelines? >> there was a requirement, to have your temperature checked, you had to wear a mask to pass through. once you got through, there was no requirement for a mask. i took mine off because there's nobody around within 100 yards. but we asked protesters if they're worried about the pandemic. part of the answer here is, you have this great moment of soecil

reckoning happening, people feel like they have to come out. in tulsa, a day after juneteenth, people feel like they need to reclaim that narrative. >> and one of the more shocking things, president trump telling people he wanted to slow down testing so there would be less confirmed cases. take a listen. >> testing is a double-edged sword. we've tested now 25 million people. it's probably 20 million people more than anybody else, germany has done a lot. south korea has done a lot. here's the bad part. when you do testing to that extent, you're going to find more people, you're going to find more cases. so i said to my people, slow the testing down, please. >> dr. patel, this comes on the heels of finding out that six members of the president's

advance team tested positive themselves for covid-19. the president's campaign says he was joking, and at the same time, we know he has often not listened to his own coronavirus task force. and their recommendations. what do you make of what the president said last night? >> well, it's just moral ma malpractice, and repugnant to listen to that in light of 120,000 deaths and climbing. we know that when you increase testing, that doesn't necessarily result in more cases. in fact, countries have increased testing over 100%, and cases have gone down. so it's not one related to the other. as we're testing people, we're finding more and more positive cases and especially in the southeast and midwest, which tells us that we're getting increased community spread of the virus.

so that combined with six advance team members that come from at least washington, d.c., and other places, and are presumably going back to these places, and going to how many public places in between, that creates an increased concern about these summer months. honestly, the president's words don't help the situation as the country is struggling to recover and find its way through the summer and fall. >> there was a lot of finger-pointing after the crowd size disappointed the president last night. seems like most of the fingers are pointing at the president's campaign manager. it seems that his position is safe for now, but it does beg the question, how much of this is about who is at the helm of the campaign, and how much of it is about any of these people's ability to control the president, their candidate? >> this was an unforced error. when you say there are 19,000

people that can fill up the arena, and 800,000 to 1 million tickets people signed up for, people are going to say, do i want to risk that, wait in line to get in? we know that president trump looks at tv optics and crowd sizes, and the imagery of all that and considers it very important. we know he's punished staff in the past for these kinds of mistakes, when his crowds don't look completely packed. so of course this has something to do with the campaign staff. but this begins and ends with president trump, he was advised by the experts, including fauci and birx, not to do it. but he went forward regardless of the advice. >> and among the claims president trump made, and he's

made it before, that he's done more for african-americans than any president before. who is that message landing with? >> well, that message isn't for african-americans, black people know what president trump has done for them. he's increased the hateful rhetoric, and normalized white supremacy. that message is for his base to give them the excuse to continue voting for him. and we saw that with this rally. one of the things that we're forgetting is not just that people vote for a president. but people vote against a president. and the fact that he had a small crowd was partly due to people actively working to reduce the crowd size, buying tickets with the intent not to go. and that is, to me, the equivalent of people who are going to vote against him, not just sit back and allow his hateful rhetoric and white

supremacy to continue to be normalized in this country. >> i have to say before we go, yesterday, i asked you what you thought the story would be today. you said your guess is as good as mine. can we agree that neither of us would guess that people on tiktok would prank the campaign? >> yes, they say they weeded it out the information, that they were aware this sort of thing was happened. but they clearly weren't. if you are, you don't advertise the fact that nearly 1 million people had signed up, if vast numbers of them are teens trying to prank you. what they did, the fact that they said this, seems to have hurt the attendance at their own rally. this was an unforced error from the campaign. and it's remarkable how

sophisticated the young zoomers are. a lot of them deleted the posts within 24 to 48 hours of putting them out there. saying, i signed up for a ticket, but i don't think i can make it. these kinds of jokes and pranks, they deleted it to try to lay low so no one would have caught on. and it seems to have worked to some extent. >> thank you, all. coming up, big questions about the firing of the top u.s. prosecutor in new york, and the president's involvement. plus, while the president was grabbing headlines in tulsa, the biden campaign was making news. we'll talk about their latest moves. s.

growing calls today for former u.s. attorney geoffrey berman to testify before

congress. let's bring in josh letterman at the white house. josh, what more can you tell us about these calls for berman to testify? >> lawmakers want to hear from berman, what he might have been looking into that could have led the trump administration to want him out of there. they see this as part of a pattern that has included the president moving to get rid of other people whose job it is to hold the administration accountable and provide accountability and transparency. listen to what adam schiff told chuck todd today on "meet the press". >> should we expect to see mr. berman in front of congress in the next week or two? >> i certainly hope that he will come and testify before congress. and i know chairman nadler intends to investigate this, and

he should. it's the most disastrous management of the justice department in modern memory. and it doesn't come as a surprise anymore, but yet it's completely demoralizing to the people in the department and dangerous to the rule of law. >> you heard him talking about nadler, he said this morning he's invited berman to testify as early as wednesday. he said he does expect berman will come and speak to congress. >> any word from folks inside the administration about the possibility of berman testifying on capitol hill? >> one of the interesting things is, it's really difficult at this point for the administration to block berman from testifying because of the fact that they just fired him.

if he was still a government employ employee, it would be possible for the administration to block him. but now that they've fired berman, that will make it hard for the administration to stop him if he talks to congress. whether he'll go to congress and actually divulge everything he's investigating, unlikely. as a longtime prosecutor, he probably wants to protect the investigations. but there's nothing to stop him from going to the hill. >> josh, thank you. now i want to welcome congresswoman norma torres. you heard adam schiff talking about the management of the justice department. what is your reaction to what is going on inside of the doj? >> good afternoon. it's certainly shocking what is happening right now. the southern district is known

for its independence. they carry some pretty heavy cases there, and for this president to take this action against mr. berman, it's really uncalled for. and it should send just shocks, shockwaves throughout our entire colleagues in congress. and for me, what is more disappointing is the fact that republicans have not said anything about this. the rule of law, our democracy, is what we're fighting for here. why are they so quiet about it? >> i want to move to this week's supreme court decision on daca. chad wolf made it clear on "meet the press," the administration's fight to end daca is not over. >> we're going to end an unlawful program. as the acting secretary of homeland security, i don't have

the luxury to ignore the law. the program is unlawful. and the president has been begging congress to solve the problem. we're willing to sit down at the table and negotiate with them. >> what does it tell you about where the administration is when it comes to daca and dealing with a more permanent solution? >> where the administration is as it relates to daca or immigrants as a whole is where they've been all along. the last four years, during the campaign. this is their political football, this is the red meat that they throw at their base. and it's unfortunate, we have over 650,000 young people that are part of our great economy here in the u.s. as we begin to reopen our economy, we need them in the work force, and we need a solution for them. what they can do right now, is

senate, is take up the d.r.e.a.m. act bill, deliver it to president trump, and i expect president trump to deal with them fairly. because these young people have been a part of our country. they're our neighbors, our brothers, our sisters. and they deserve better than what they've been getting. years of uncertainty from this administration. >> congresswoman, before i let you go, i want to get your reaction to the president's rally last night in tulsa. >> it's exciting that a bunch of teenagers, even though they can't cast a vote, were able to manipulate the president of the united states and his campaign in such a way that, you know, they showed up in numbers, signing up for these tickets. by the way, they did not prevent any of the president's supporters from attending that

rally because there was no cap of the number of tickets they were issuing. so president trump, i think this sends a very loud and clear message to you. and that is that your own base is turning against you. >> all right, congresswoman torres, thank you. as the president fumbles an opportunity to talk about race in america, a new generation is stepping up. we'll talk to those who are part of that movement, next. plus, a different look at father's day.

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in the last few weeks, we've seen a generation of organizers takes to the streets, big moves in the supreme court, and black lives matter changing the way we talk about race and racism in america. and it's more than just a

moment, it's a movement of young people who are reimagining the country they'll inherit. jessica byrd, with us, and jonathan, a daca recipient. jess, you're the reason we're all hanging out together on a sunday. you tweet that the movement has struggled together and learned from each other, and it's no accident that this daca decision and the uprisings are happening together. tell me more. >> well, immigrants' rights

activists and others, if you look at the next generation of civil rights leaders, that's who is leading the protests all over our country. that is who is putting forward the case for the daca decision, those are all people who are united in our vision for racial justice, whether for immigration or defunding police, we're clear that we will not be free until all of us are free. and our freedom and bound together, and we need to work together to do that in a movement. and that's exactly what happened this week. it's beautiful, joyful, and exciting. >> you know, jessica, i think a lot of people are familiar with electoral politics, because they think of themselves as participants in it. everybody talks about the november election, but between the elections, there's all of this movement building that we

often do not see. it's not always happening in the streets or always being talked about on television. how do you as a movement leader harness the energy that is happening, and make sure you're connecting the moments and movements together such that you do not lose this sense of momentum? >> absolutely. hey, alicia, thank you for the question and just this awesome panel. we have been in rooms together dreaming, and so it feels really good that we get to say a bit more about what that takes. the movement for black lives is a nearly six-year-old network of 160 black-led, black-centered organizations. some really small, some big with lots of staff. but all of us are connected to a vision for black lives that includes reimagining policing and public safety. and most of the work that you see right now happening, changing the conversation as you

said, it actually happens in really unsexy ways. it's in basements of union halls, eating sandwiches and old pizza. arguing and agitating together on the way forward. and part of the mandate that the streets provide is that we tell the truth at the ballot box. protest creates a microphone for what won't be said in the mainstream. and elections have an opportunity to respond to that microphone with the truth. so part of the complexity and the bridge that i stand on between black movement and black electoral politics is that it requires our leaders have the political will to not just meet the demands of our movement, but to say the truth. so everyone feels like they can transition to using the ballot box to transform their solutions.

>> jonathan, your life literally exists at the intersection of all of these conversations. whether it's your work on behalf of elizabeth warren's presidential campaign, and other places. what is your message to candidates about their role in this conversation? >> i deeply believe that today we're getting a taste of the fruits of the seeds that our movement has been planting for a long time. we got a taste on thursday with the daca decision, we got a taste on monday with the decision impacting lgbtqia individuals like myself. to be clear, we're winning. and it feels good to be able to sit in that, right? and this is not the time to

stop. this is the time for more and more people to come off the sidelines, to join our movement for freedom and justice, and, yes, that includes candidates, people, organizers. there's a role for everyone to play. but this is the time to join us because we deeply believe that in the end, we will win. >> one of the big stories coming out of last night out of trump's rally was the kpop fans, people on tiktok who had inflated the ticket numbers. part of what was so fascinating to me, as the three of you, a millennial like myself, these generations understood that trump has set up an asymmetric battlefield.

so what are you learning from this younger generation of organizers? >> i think the kind of, as we herald this new left, and sometimes it's people who don't even know they're in it, because they're just doing something spontaneous on tiktok. it's clear, they're young, unapologetic, and completely fearless. and they may not even be in organizations or in a movement. it's the job of people like jessica and jonathan and i to actually work hard to bring them in. that creativity and fearlessness is exactly what we need to win the kinds of policies and life we're fighting for. >> jonathan, i want to -- >> i want to embrace the spirit and joy they have to use that to be as strategic as possible. if they can do that for one rally, imagine what they can do for another campaign. >> and jonathan, i want to play

some sound, trump speaking about daca last night. >> people don't understand that we actually won on daca yesterday. everybody said, you got to win daca, that easy. they all said it, and they came back and they said we don't like what you did with your paperwork. most people said you lost, we didn't lose. we're going to refile it. it's going to work out for the young people, most of whom aren't so young. >> kind of a sick burn saying you're not so young anymore. your response to the president? jonathan? oh, i might have lost jonathan. all right, jess, i wonder what you make of someone who just had

the supreme court say he needs to go back and rethink the program, based on process, saying that he's somehow won. i may have lost everyone. all right. well, my thanks to jess, jessica, and jonathan. thank you all. >> still ahead, after a disastrous night in tulsa, where does the trump camp do from here? and tonight on "kasie d.c.," senator doug jones, and they'll also talk about the shakeup in the department of justice. that's tonight at 7:00 p.m. here on msnbc.

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joe biden's campaign is responding to president trump's lower than expected turnout at his rally last night. saying it's no surprise that his supporters have responded by abandoning him. this comes as a new poll shows president trump is trailing biden by the widest margin this year. a fox news poll shows biden with a 12-point lead. all right, alex, you've seen the poll numbers, you saw the crowd

last night. does he have time between now and november to correct? >> oh, absolutely. you know, it's interesting, this is the most confident that i've heard democrats basically since the trump presidency. democrats were so taken off-guard by him winning in 2016, and the poll numbers have made them feel confident. but i talked to hillary clinton's 2016 campaign manager, he pointed out even with good poll numbers nationally, in the battleground states, joe biden is still under 50%, and his lead is within the margin of error. you could have another scenario where donald trump wins the electoral college while losing the popular vote.

they're saying there's a lot of game left to play. don't just start trying to defend your lead. >> looking at the poll numbers, the trump campaign will push back and part of the challenge is that they feel their supporter are undercounted. and democrats feel that young voters and voters of color are undercou undercounted. do you feel that trump voters are not showing up in the poll numbers? >> i think among the base, they're going to stick with him through thick and thin. but i think where everybody really needs to train their sight is on women. we know that trump won with a plurality of white women. in 2018, we saw troubling news for the trump campaign, where women started migrating, and non-college educated white women are starting to drift away.

it's not a massive shift, but five or ten percentage points. some of the polling says the non-college white women moving away from trump. and the white men will stick with him, but the women, the woman who a women who are trying to make ends meet, who maneed the $15 minimum wage to make ends meet, that's where he's the weakest. >> and biden pulling ahead of trump in terms of fund-raising, outraising the president by $7 million last month. and the hand-wringing before the election, will biden be able to generate what he needs to win?

and looking at the amount of money and the rate at which they're burning through the cash, what do you make of that? >> joe biden is getting the trump bump in terms of fund-raising right now. democrats are extremely motivated to beat this president. joe biden has admitted he was practically broke when he was winning the primaries. part of the reason was, he had no small dollar donations. bernie sanders and elizabeth warren had much more robust small dollar fund-raising. but you're seeing that democrats are extremely motivated to oust this president from the white house. now, you also need to remember that president trump started running for re-election the day after his inauguration. he has an enormous stockpile of money, and it's a lot more than

$7 million. so joe biden is really going to have to press on the gas to compete toe-to-toe with the president. >> last night was a real grab bag, but here's president trump going after joe biden on the question of immigration. >> he voted for mass amnesty for illegal aliens, and now he wants to end immigration enforcements, and he wants to require you to provide free health care for millions and millions of illegal aliens, okay? [ booing ] >> this is clearly one of his greatest hits. he knows it resonates with his base. but does it also potentially have the impact of increasing latino support and turnout for joe biden?

>> right, he's hitting replay on immigration, which has been his strongest suit. what i do think will happen with the latino community, this is the same immigrant rhetoric from 2016, we didn't see the latino movement we expected. but now we have proof, they were looking at trump as a candidate and saying, oh, he says extreme stuff, but he won't really do it. it's just bluster. but he gets into the white house and he did do it. so, they've seen child separation, construction of the wall in south texas, they've seen time after time trump making good on his immigration promises. i expect this to be a mobilizing force, because it was just bluster and rhetoric before. >> thank you.

coming up, the impact of mass incarceration on america's families. milies to t-mobile essentials and save up to 50% off your current service and smartphones. keep your phones. we'll pay them off. only at t-mobile. .

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we're finally back... and can't wait until you are too. filmed four months before his death, rayshard brooks was interviewed discussing his struggle to be father to his kids while trapped in a cycle of the criminal justice system. >> so as we go through these trials and tribulations, it's hurting our kids and it's taking away from our families. >> thousands of men remain behind bars during father's day, up able to celebrate with their children. in 2007, paul howser was sentenced to 60 years in prison with no chance of parole. now paul served a sentence longer than some violent criminals due to mississippi's habitual or three strikes law. with me is paul's son, dusty. what do you want people to know about your dad, paul? >> well, first off, i would like

to tell him happy father's day and don't give up, because i haven't given up on him and that i love him. but my dad has always battled with addiction problems, but he's never harmed or even stolen anything for his drug habit. he's always been a hard worker and he's always provided for his family. he just got pulled over or had got marijuana charges when he was 19, and then later on he got a precursor charge and at the age of 33, he was pulled over with a bapack of batteries and they suspected he was going to make done with. and it just -- you know, here we have the three-strike rule. if you already have two prior convictions, they can give you

the max sentence, which is two life sentences here in the state of mississippi. 60 years. the crime don't fit the punishment. >> what would justice look like instead? what do you think should be done with someone like your dad? >> well, he's already served 13 years. from the day my son was born, he's been in prison. he's missed out on a lot of things through this life. and with all the things that are going on in the world with covid-19, with the gang violence in there, it's just -- the poor conditions, the non-health care in there to take care of them. they don't have the means to take care of them or protect them the way they should be protected. i mean, i think he served

sufficient amount of time. >> it's been over a decade since you've been able to spend father's day with your dad. what has this meant for you, for your life, for your family? >> you know, the simple things is what we take or granted. just being able to pick up the phone and call him and check on him or just actually we do a big father's grillout and we grill and we eat out and stuff. and it just -- it has take an toll just because the simple things in life is what we miss out on, just, you know, being able to check on him making sure he's all right, you know? >> yep. >> but i mean -- >> so much of the national conversation -- finish your thought, please. >> i mean -- >> so much of the national -- you go ahead, dusty.

>> you know, it's two hour and 55 minute drive to where he's located at in prison, and when you get there, you get treated like you're the criminal. like you're going to be smuggling things in and they -- my dad is actually quit sending me visitation forms because he says i get punished more than he does, because of the way they have to search us. they just treat us with no -- like second-class citizens. like we're criminals, you know? >> you know, there's a national conversation hatching right now and so much of that conversation is around policing and there are many who believe it should be a bigger conversation or needs to be context yule iualized conver.

as someone whose life has been personally altered by this, what type of reforms would you like to see in place? >> they've got one in store right now or in legislation right now that would help if they would make them retroact e retroactive, which means it doesn't -- or it goes to people that's already been sentenced. but all the bills they have been passing in legislation, it helps the people that hasn't been charged yet, but are going to be charged. so if we retro active -- i mean, we're punishing what we have already punished. so i believe in they make it retroactive, it will help put down the population, but at the same time, people will have served their time and have -- can be a productive member of society. they can be part of workforce again and helping.

so i think -- >> dusty, thank you so much and thank you for spending a part of your father's day with us. that wraps it up for this hour. the reverend al sharpton takes over at the top of the hour with a special two-hour edition of "politics nation" next on msnbc. . outside, it's soft like underwear. inside, it turns liquid to gel. for incredible protection, that feels like nothing but my underwear. new always discreet boutique. i need all the breaks, that i can get. at liberty butchumal- cut. liberty biberty- cut. we'll dub it. liberty mutual customizes your car insurance so you only pay for what you need. only pay for what you need. ♪ liberty. liberty. liberty. liberty. ♪

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