considerations, the jobs that the majority of them would find themselves in does not allow them to protect themselves by looking into a computer and doing telework. most of them are essential on the outside, having to mingle in a society in which the virus is circulating. so right at the get-go, they have a greater risk of getting infected. and then we know from a lot of experience now that the situation regarding whether or not you have serious consequences, hospitalizations, intubation, complications, and death, relate very strongly to the prevalence and incidence of underlying comorbid conditions which are clearly disproportionately more expressed in the african-american population than in the rest of the population, and that particularly includes hypertension, diabetes, obesity, chronic long disease, and kidney

disease. so unfortunately we have a situation where it's sort of a double whammy of a negative capability of them to respond, through no fault of their own, because of underlying conditions and the conditions in which they find themselves. >> dr. fauci, would you consider racism itself as being a reason that members of the african-american community have greater comorbidity? >> i think the question was would i consider institutional racism as contributing. >> yes. >> yes, thank you, congressman. obviously the african-american community has suffered from racism for a very, very long period of time. and i cannot imagine that that has not contributed to the conditions that they find

themselves in economically and otherwise. so the answer, congressman, is yes. >> admiral giroir, your announcement that provides $100 million, $40 million to go to the morehouse college of medicine for contact tracing and testing. i have introduced a bill which calls for $100 million for testing and contact tracing. $100 million or more for contact tracing and for testing. >> thank you, congressman. for testing and contact tracing, we're going to need billions of dollars. i mean, that's the amount of investment that we're doing partially through cdc. this specific award is to have

morehouse lead a consortium of organizations like 100 black men, the national association community of health workers, indian health, et cetera, et cetera, to really focus on the specific educational testing and linkage to care needs of underserved minorities and some of those also in the rural population. my personal opinion is $40 million is a start to. it's going to need to be a lot more than that in order to reach the people that we need to reach. >> thank you, bobby. thank you, admiral. next is mr. upton from michigan. >> thanks very much, mr. chairman, and i really appreciate the testimony that we've heard thus far and the interaction that we'll have betwe [ inaudible ]. dr. fauci, [ inaudible ] good friend, thank you for your

service for sure. in recent weeks you made the statement that we have as many as 100 million doses of [ inaudible ] vaccine before [ inaudible ]. i've heard from a number of companies just in recent days, astrazeneca, pfizer, [ inaudible ] that have perhaps a billion doses before the end of next year, calendar year '21. so [ inaudible ] through the phase ii process [ inaudible ] maybe even get into some production [ inaudible ] early august, [ inaudible ] approvals yet, but [ inaudible ] the promise of getting to the marketplace and really saving the world, let's face it. what is your thought as to how

early we may see an eua, an emergency use authorization, approved for any of these vaccines based on what we know today, and under scenarios that we may see something in the next number of months in terms of an approval? lay out what you think is a real distinct possibility of where we might end up being. >> okay, thank you for that. >> [ inaudible ]. >> i didn't hear everything you said but i think i got enough of it to answer your question, at least the last part. i think it's very important and i welcome the opportunity to address this. the idea about the doses that would be available, you know, a couple of hundred million doses in the beginning of the year, some companies are saying in a year or two we'll have as many as a billion doses. i think that's real. most people would raise their eyebrows and think, how is that going to happen? it is because things are being done at risk. people, companies, are starting

to plan to make doses even before you know the vaccine works. so the risk of the speed is not risk to safety, it's not safety to scientific integrity. it's risk to money. so put that aside. the point that congressman upton made i think is very important. we need to be careful that we don't jump, because of our need to get vaccines for those who need it, that we do not definitively prove safety and efficacy before we make decisions about distribution. we've heard a lot about emergency use authorization. emergency use authorization is important, but it has to be done in a situation where you fulfill the criteria for the emergency use authorization. i would be very disappointed if we jumped to a conclusion before we knew that a vaccine was truly safe and truly effective,

because i wouldn't want the perpetual ambiguity of not knowing whether or not it is truly safe and truly effective. that's the reason why we're doing several randomized placebo controlled trials with power enough that could give us that answer. i hope that answers your question, fred. >> just one quick [ inaudible ] what will be the earliest that you think under the best scenario we might be able to see an eua issued by you all along with i guess it would be the fda, right, that would actually issue that. >> yes. the answer is yes. let me quickly answer that and hand it over to steve because he may want to answer that. we're going into the first phase i -- phase iii efficacy trial in july. it takes at least a month to get to the second dose, because it's a prime boost.

you'll take another couple of months to accrue or enroll enough people that if there is viral activity in the community, and we have our sights not only in the united states but all over the world, in brazil and in south africa. if we get an efficacy signal, you'll get an efficacy signal more quickly the more cases there are. now, if it turns out there are not a lot of cases, it may take longer. and that's the reason why you can't give an accurate prediction of when you're going to get those data. steve, do you want to take it from here? >> yes, thanks, dr. fauci. so just a couple of issues, to your point, congressman upton. one is, we are working with the sponsors across the board, private industry, operation warp speed, et cetera, those who are developing vaccines. we're providing technical assistance regarding clinical trial design, the number of participants in the clinical trials as well as the endpoints that we want to see to make an

adjudication about safety and effectiveness. i want to emphasize what dr. fauci said, and that is the acceleration is really around taking financial risk around the development process. the acceleration is not cutting corners with respect to the assessment of safety and effectiveness. the american people can rely upon the fact that the fda has many experts in the vaccine area. we've been doing this for years. we will rely upon the science and data when it's available to us to make that adjudication and decision regarding an eua. i cannot prejudge when that will happen. >> thank you. thank you, fred. next we have the gentlewoman from california, ms. eshoo. >> thank you, mr. chairman, and good morning. i would like to start with dr. [ inaudible ]. doctor, we had a conversation [ inaudible ]. i expressed to you really my [ inaudible ], my disappointment

about [ inaudible ] the most prestigious institution in the world on infectious diseases and prevention. the united states today is number one, number one in the world in infections and in tests. this is not anything that any of us can be proud of. the american people are in pain. they're grieving. there's a great deal of [ inaudible ]. there's confusion. because -- for many reasons. and i urged you as head of cdc to speak directly to the american people. i know the agencies are talking to each other. i consider that a whisper,

because the american people are not hearing you speak out. they deserve to hear the truth. we have heard dr. fauci time and time again putting out trusted information to the american people. the american people are divided on this issue of the virus. imagine that. so i continue to urge you to speak out. you're a doctor. put your white jacket on and speak weekly to the american people. they want to know what's coming, what is ahead. my constituents ask me on a consistent basis, what's next? what is our government doing? that's a haunting question. and so while we're doing the nice back and forth this morning, good questions on the part of members, i really remain

dismayed and deeply disappointed. we need leadership coming out of the cdc, real leadership. it was an outrage that there was a gathering in tulsa. six of the president's advance people were infected. and it's my understanding that two secret service agents were. how can the cdc allow this pandemic, to virus, to be something political? you have to push back. you're a scientist. you're a doctor. now, to dr. hahn, i'm sure you've read the several articles regarding hydroxychloroquine. every study states it doesn't work in any setting. in fact it has known side effects, cardiac issues being one. so there's a danger in terms of the side effects. as commissioner, you see all the

data. are you going to inform the american people, doctors across the country, about these facts? >> thank you, congresswoman, for that question. indeed we are. i can refer the committee to several documents that we have put out over the last several weeks regarding hydroxychloroquine with respect to the issues. we issued a safety alert particularly about hydroxychloroquine with other drugs that might affect the heart. as you know, we've taken recent action regarding -- >> but have you specifically, have you specifically spoken directly to the american people so there isn't this confusion about hydroxychloroquine? >> yes, ma'am. there is an fda voices piece that's authored by me as well as a piece that's directly to the american people about the status of hydroxychloroquine. >> this is paper. i want to know if you have

spoken out verbally to the american people, to doctors across the country. people don't hear paper, with all due respect. >> yes, ma'am, i appreciate the question. but every opportunity i've had to be in the media, i've been asked that question and i have communicated that same information about the -- >> [ inaudible ] question, dr. hahn. there have been several articles expressing concerns relative to political pressure being placed on the fda by the white house. will you state unequivocally that if any political pressure is applied to you and the fda, that you will immediately report that to this committee? >> i will certainly unequivocally state that if i receive political pressure i will report it to this committee. i can tell you i have not felt political pressure nor has the fda, to make any decision in any specific direction.

>> it's not about [ inaudible ]. it's about a direct political pressure. so thank you for your response, and i yield back. >> thank you, ms. eshoo. and good day, i am andrea mitchell in washington. as the country's top public health officials continue to testify to congress about covid-19, a disease of course that has already killed 120,000 americans and is now surging in states from florida to arizona, where of course the president is heading at this hour. the focus of today's hearing, dr. anthony fauci, whose warnings about face coverings and social distancing have been repeatedly ignored by president trump, vice president pence, and the trump campaign. >> if you look at how we've been hit, we've been hit badly. in some respects, we've done very well. in other areas of the country, we're now seeing a disturbing surge of infections that looks like it's a combination. but one of the things is an increase in community spread. and that's something that i'm

really quite concerned about that. the next couple of weeks are going to be critical in our tablet to address those surgings we're seeing in physiology fflo texas, in arizona and other states. >> that concern of course has been dismissed again by president trump, ahead of his phoenix speech before thousands of young supporters in a mega church whose leaders are touting a totally discredited so-called cure. the president has also alarmed doctors with his comments in tulsa, that he told his people to slow the testing in order to hold down coronavirus numbers. >> they called me, they said, the job you're doing -- here's the bad part. when you test -- when you do testing to that extent, you're going to find more people, you're going to find more cases. so i said to my people, slow the testing down, please. >> none of us have ever been told to slow down on testing. that just is a fact. in fact, we will be doing more testing.

>> joining me now, nbc white house correspondent and "weekend today" co-host kristen welker. nbc capitol hill correspondent kasie hunt, host of "kasie d.c.," and a doctor from the bloomberg school of health. welcome, all. we heard repeated questioning today about a vaccine. dr. hahn from the fda and dr. fauci are saying it's very hard to predict. they're going into stage iii trials but they have to have enough people to test, enough virus out there. they're testing in south africa, for instance, and in brazil, in order to have enough data to prove that it is effective. kasie hunt, the most important thing i think that dr. fauci said, aside from doienying that

there is political pressure and that he's been told to slow down any of the testing, is that they want to be sure that the vaccine is effective, that the worst thing they could do is come out with a vaccine without testing and knowing it is effective against covid-19. >> that's right, andrea, and rushing a vaccine to the point where it caused problems or wasn't effective would be such a tremendous setback for so many reasons, both public health reasons and also political reasons. i think it was heartening for many to hear that dr. fauci said it's a question not of "if" but "when" we're able to make these developments. i think there are a lot of people who breathed a sigh of relief at hearing him say that. but he also, as you point out, was particularly cautious. he said in particular they're taking only financial risks here. and he wanted -- he underscored

that in another area to a member of congress who was asking about this, the financial risk being investing in buying doses, buying basically the materials that you need to actually deliver the vaccine before we actually know if there's something that they could actually put in that to make it effective. that could potentially mean it could be distributed quickly and widely and ideally without costing americans quite a bit of money. so, you know, i do think his answers on these vaccine questions are going to move that forward as we continue to talk about how we're ultimately going to end this pandemic, if that is still, of course, possible. he said the next couple of weeks are going to be very critical for the areas where we're seeing community spread. but he also of course did address what many of us have been wondering, after the president made those comments at the tulsa rally, where he suggested that he had ordered his task force to slow down testing, potentially for political reasons. and this morning he said he wasn't kidding, as his aides had

suggested that he was. dr. fauci was very direct in saying that to his knowledge, he certainly and to his knowledge no other officials had been asked to slow down testing for this reason. and after questioning from actually the ranking member, the republican, who went down the line of these officials and answer the question whether they had been pressured, they each in turn answered "no." now, i don't think that's going to be enough for many members of congress. we know senators have requested an ig investigation into this question. i don't think this is going to be the last we hear of it, andrea. >> and kristen welker, you've got two realities here. anna eshoo, the grfshcongresswo from california, was making that point, saying, put on your white coat and tell the people. again today the president is heading into a hotspot, arizona. we see, you know, breakouts in phoenix and even in yuma at the

wall, we'lli inbe hearing from jacob soboroff, two people have tested positive there, workers at the wall. how do we get around this, somehow public health has become so politicized. >> you've hit at the heart of it, andrea, president trump and vice president pence are eager to turn the page and put the focus on the campaign. they're arguing the economy is coming back as the country slowly reopens. we saw that dichotomy on display in tulsa when you had thousands of people packed into that arena, a number of them not wearing masks. the trump campaign says they handed out masks but didn't mandate that people wore them. of course on saturday we learned that six advance staff tested positive for covid-19, and then yesterday nbc news was first to report, andrea, that two more advance staff members tested positive. so you have eight people who have tested positive, which

really looms large, i think, over all of it and makes the point that despite the fact that the president is eager to turn the page, this is a virus that continues to march on. and you heard that in what we just heard from dr. anthony fauci who said he is concerned about the uptick in community spread and president trump heading to arizona, where we are seeing a spike in cases, his third stop today is going to be to speak at that megachurch which fits 3,000 people. no word on final attendance, andrea, but there is concern that these indoor events could only help to increase the spread all the more. now, president trump's entire response has come under scrutiny including and especially those remarks that he made in tulsa, a number of white house officials, again, said they were in jest when he said he had told his own staff to stop the testing, to slow the testing. he's been pressed on that a number of times, andrea, including today, just before he departed. take a listen to what he had to say.

>> we test. we're going to have more cases. by having more cases, it sounds bad. but actually what it is is, we're finding people. many of those people aren't sick, or very little. here is what i say. testing is a double edged sword. in one way, it tells you you have cases. in another way, you find out where the cases are and you do a good job. >> andrea, this has been the president's talking point for quite some time, which is that with more testing you get more cases. and of course top doctors have said, yes, that may be the case but that does not account for this increase that we are seeing now, in more than 25 states, andrea. >> and dr. scharfstein, testing is not a double-edged sword, testing is positive, it tells us where the cases are and how to deal with them. and testing is not the be-all,

end-all, the real measure is hospitalization rates. how concerned are you about what we're seeing in florida, texas, arizona? >> it's extremely concerning. people can be forgiven for thinking they have double vision. on the one hand you have the president playing things down, the vice president saying things are turning around, don't pay attention to the testing numbers. and on the other hand, there is a real problem in certain states in this country, reflected not just in the number of people with positive tests but hospitalizations, icu beds, ventilators. and there's not an end in sight. i mean, we're going to have to realize that it's what we do, what every single person does, what our governments do that is going to fight the virus. the virus is going to do its thing, and it's up to us to stop it. >> and our thanks to you, as we continue to watch what the president is doing today. thanks to you, thanks to kasie. kristen, i just want to ask you about this new confrontation

today, near where you are, between police in lafayette park across from the white house and the protesters who are trying to take down the statue of andrew jackson after a face-off and pepper spraying last night as demonstrators used ropes to try to take it down, just hours after the president lashed out at the protesters, threatening prison time. >> we stopped an attack on a great monument, a monument of andrew jackson. we are looking at long term jail sentences for these vandals and these hoodlums and these anarchists and agitators, call them whatever you want. some people don't like that language but that's what they are. i will have an executive order very shortly and all it's really going to do is reinforce what's already there but in a more uniform way. >> kristen, we're seeing a major police presence around lafayette park today, in fact white house reporters for the first time

that i can recall since 9/11 were ordered by the secret service, inappropriately, apparently, out of the white house last night at the height of that confrontation, and not allowed to stay securely inside the campus. >> it is really remarkable, andrea, you're right, they were ordered to leave for the first time since september 11th. to the point of that executive order, andrea, president trump essentially saying he is going to reinforce a preexisting law. and i think we want to hit that point, which is there is a law that just it a crime to destroy, quote, any structure, plaque, statue, or monument on public property commemorating the service of any person or persons in the armed forces of the united states. now, as you know, andrea, this has been a real flashpoint. president trump even clashing with some in his military who have said, look, they would be open to removing or renaming military bases which are named

after confederate generals. president trump says he's not willing to do that. we know there's been a big debate here behind the scenes. he's been steadfast that he does not support bringing down these monuments that a number of people, the protesters in particular, feel are not only hurtful but very controversial and not the right way to remember these figures in american history, andrea. >> and andrew jackson in particular for him, that is the portrait he moved, importantly, into the oval office. he was the first president who did that. thank you so much, kristen welker, for all your reporting. coming up, the president is heading to another hotspot, as we mentioned, arizona, on his way to phoenix and yuma, to survey the rebuilt portion of the border wall as covid cases there are on the rise.

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president trump is on his way to arizona, a pandemic hot zone, to tour a stretch of border wall in yuma and speak to a megachurch gathering of young supporters in phoenix. with us is phillip rucker from "the washington post" and jacob soboroff in yuma, arizona. his latest book is "separated: inside an american tragedy," congratulations on that, jacob. let's talk about what's happening at the border. jacob, first to you, the border

wall, is it correct that two construction workers have been tested positive, so even there, in a remote section of arizona, along the border, we're seeing that the virus has no borders. >> you're spot on, andrea. that's why i'm wearing a mask here, out in the middle of the arizona desert. it's not a place you would think you would need to wear a mask despite the fact that coronavirus is raging across the country. but it is raging in no larger proportion than it is right here in arizona. two workers, as you said, working on this very border wall that president trump is coming to see, were diagnosed with the coronavirus. that is the backdrop in which president trump is arriving here in arizona today. make no mistake, this 30-foot border wall, 200-mile-long stretch, is a political victory, i suppose you could say, for the president. there's debate over whether it's replacement wall or new wall. as someone who has spent a lot of time looking at the border up close, this will make an impact

on migrants in a way that pushes them to more dangerous and deadly places when they attempt to cross into the united states. i had an exchange earlier today with ken cuccinelli, who said that is the point, and what president trump wants to underscore here. but he'll have a hard time cutting through the conversation, what the residents in this country are talking about right now, which is the proliferation of the virus in the united states and frankly in mexico which likely came from here in the united states. the president wants to talk about how he's closed the borders. that is not the case. there's a lot of legitimate trade and travel going back and forth between mexico and the u.s., including right here in yuma, arizona. >> i want to get to another point, which is in phoenix, those church leaders are boasting -- where the president is going to be speaking later,

boasting about a device they say can kill 99.9% of the virus in minutes, according to a post they've now deleted. let me share it with our viewers. >> we've installed a clean air exp, we have a local arizona company who has technology developed by some members of our church. we've installed these units and it kills 99.9% of covid within ten minutes, independent tested. >> ionization. >> it's ionization of the air and it takes particulates out and covid cannot live in that environment. >> phil, it would be laughable if it weren't so cruel. it looks like an "snl" sequence or something. but it is a terribly misleading, terribly misleading video. and this is where the president is going today. >> yeah, these gentlemen are hosting the president at that church and they've invited an estimated 3,000 people who are going to be inside there for

this rally which is aimed at galvanizing the president's young supporters in arizona. but there is simply no scientific evidence to support the theory that they are pushing on that video or the idea that you can somehow zap away the coronavirus through this technology. that technology does not exist. and there's no evidence or fact to support it. >> phil, also want to ask you and ask jacob to comment on the president's order freezing visas for foreign workers with some exceptions, agricultural exceptions. but this affects hundreds of thousands of foreign workers. businesses rely on them. the chamber of commerce is not happy about this at all, his business supporters. and it really impacts the earning power of a lot of people on both sides of the border. >> that's exactly right. and this is an extension, andrea, of restrictions that the president put in place pretty immediately when the pandemic hit. and it's extending these restrictions through the end of the year.

a lot of advocates for immigrants view this as a draconian measure that could have a lot of impact on immigrant workers and communities in this country. the administration says it's designed to help protect jobs during this recession for american citizens. but it is an example of the president using -- taking advantage of the health crisis we're in right now to extend his immigration policies and enact, you know, very conservative restrictions. >> what is the impact there, jacob? >> phil is spot on, under the cover of the coronavirus the president has attempted to put in some of the most, in phil's words, draconian immigration policies to limit people coming into the company. you can't see this but on the other side of the camera i'm looking at workers coming in for seasonal work. they may be exempted on that side of the border but on this side of the border directly into mexico, asylum seekers by the tens of thousands are waiting

for their chance to get into the united states in order to declare asylum, many who came during the coronavirus, made it all the way to here, then were turned around and expelled directly back to the places from which they came. throughout the trump administration, whether it was family separations which i saw myself and i know a family, multiple families that were separated here in the yuma sector, or the other immigration policies, the trump administration has continually tried to institute more and more extreme immigration policies. and his visa action is just one in a long line of those, andrea. >> jacob and phil, thank you so much. jacob, congratulations, we're all excited about the book, "separated." thanks very much. >> thanks, andrea. the fbi is now investigating an unthinkable act of hate against nascar's only full-time black driver, bubba wallace. in the wake of the racist attack, wallace is receiving an outpouring of support from his fellow drivers. nbc's sam brock has the latest. >> reporter: racing is the great

equalizer. in a 500-mile race at talladega super speedway, it was this unforgettable stretch. >> the entire garage area has rallied around bubba wallace. >> reporter: that will likely serve as an enduring image for generations of nascar fans. >> all in all we won the day. the prerace was one of the hardest things i've had think witness in my life. >> reporter: an emotional bubba wallace, the sport's only black driver, we want on the track as dozens of fellow drivers and crews showered him with love and support, pulling his number 43 car to the front of the line after wallace was the apparent target of a hate crime. >> i wanted to show whoever it was that you're not going to take away my smile, and i'm going to keep on going. >> reporter: the act that sickened the sports world. a noose left in wallace's garage stall a week after he successfully lobbied nascar to ban the confederate flag. current drivers and former stars like dale earnhardt jr. speaking

out. >> there's a lot of people rallying around bubba. i don't know that any of us really understands how that felt. >> reporter: the fbi is investigating whether federal laws were violated, as nascar has launched its own investigation. racing legend richard petty called what happened a violation of human decency, tweeting in part, there is absolutely no place in our sport or our society for racism. >> nbc's sam brock is at alabama's talladega speedway. sam, any progress on the fbi investigation? one of the things that's so remarkable is, when this happened there were no fans allowed in yet at that point. so only insiders could have had access to that garage. >> reporter: yeah, that's a great, great point, andrea. as we're awaiting the fbi's investigation, the doj, nascar, all of them looking at what happened. right now there's no access to

the garage stall. fans were able to go inside for the first time since nascar returned, but to get in the garage area, andrea, you have to be essential personnel, which would be teams, drivers, nascar officials, cleaning employees, security officials. somewhere under that umbrella. if you're not, it's not like the average joe can just make their way back there and put something nefarious in a garage stall, which is why right now investigators will be looking at things like cameras and who was in there to glean whatever nuggets they can. no updates at this point on when we'll get new information on developments. >> thank you so much, sam brock, such an important and emotional story. joining us now is wes moore, the ceo of one of the largest antipoverty foundations in the country, robin hood. his book is "five days." this is the freddie gray story in baltimore that you lived through, wes. thank you so much for being with us. we've been wanting to talk to you about this and the protests around the country now, a real moment of reckoning for america.

tell me about that, first of all, and how it intersects with the freddie gray experience. >> when i watch what's happening with the protests right now, we see that the protests are about so much more than just inequitable policing. that was actually the thing that we also saw when it came to everything that happened with freddie gray. we had people who are protesting this reality of the fact that policing does not take place equitably in every neighborhood. freddie gray's crime was that he made eye contact with police and ran. think about that. that was a crime, because in certain neighborhoods, what they deemed to be high crime neighborhoods, that actually is a technical crime. that is what freddie gray did. he was arrested. an hour later he was in a coma and a week later he died. but when we look at the things

that parallel the protests taking place then and taking place now, we're seeing the protests are about how can we provide justice and true justice in terms of equitable policing. it's also highlighting the fact of race and racism, and the fact that race is one of the most reliable predictors of life outcomes around life expectancy, mental health, mortality. this is what society is asking us to grapple with, this idea that until we can deal with the causes, we're going to continue to deal with the effects. and when we're talking about the effects, we're talking about this long lineage of names that freddie gray just happened to take an unfortunate participation in. >> as congress is now grappling, and especially the senate, with what to do about the differences

between the house legislation and the senate bill, and we're hearing a lot of pushback now against senator tim scott's republican alternative because it is not mandatory in banning chokeholds, from your perspective, what should they do? should they filibuster the republican alternative? should they try to compromise? do you see any possibility congress is finally going to deal with this? >> i think that any proposed legislation that does not deal with not just the immediate things that have to be addressed, so for example the things like the banning of chokeholds, the banning of no-knock warrants, looking at qualified immunity and the fact that the bar for even getting police officers even under investigation for improper activity is so much higher. the introduction of civilian review boards. i think that any legislation that is going to be meaningful in this moment has got to be legislation that also includes how are we going to look at this

problem holistically will need to include those measures. if we're going to address the larger crucial issues, it's how we think about the larger elements of justice that are going to be necessary. when we're talking about things like the budgeting of police departments, i think we have to be very clear about the fact that budgets are moral documents. and they're very clear understandings of what it is that we will support and what it is we'll use our taxpayer dollars for. so for example, when we're talking about what it means to be a moral document, it does mean we have to decrease this hypermilitarization that we have within police forces. i think it does mean we need to have honest conversations about the fact that in baltimore city alone, for example, the department of health, their budget is around $42 million. the police department's budget in baltimore city is $509 million. so how are we prioritizing a balance? and what exactly is it we're asking our police officers to do?

because in many cases we're asking these officers to police things that aren't necessarily activities that they should be policing. and so as we're talking about these proposed bills, it is the concrete elements that we have to be able to do address. and it also is breaking it down to the state and local level about how are we thinking about the budgeting that we have and then what message is that sending both about the role of police but then also the role of these other facets of our society that we're then pushing off to police to try to solve. >> i want to ask you also about the monuments. we've seen today and last night the conflict in lafayette square with the statue of andrew jackson. our colleague, white house correspondent geoff bennett, has researched the statue. it was built by an enslaved man named phillip reed. there is no known picture of him. but phillip reed had been, quote, purchased for $1,200 and he was the sculptor who made the andrew jackson statue. ironically, also the statue of

freedom on top of the u.s. capitol. what does all of this say about our society? i don't know what the solutions are. what do you think? >> i think the fact that we have an enslaved person who then uses their time and their talents and their energy to create a monument and a statue of someone who was a slave owner, someone who was the architect behind the trail of tears, not just the enslavement but essentially attempted genocide of native americans. i think we have to understand that we are using taxpayer dollars and taxpayer efforts to celebrate a part of history that should not be celebrated. and i think it's important for people to understand what exactly that means, when these monuments went up. most of these statues actually went up post-reconstruction. many of these statues coincided with jim crow. and so if we are going to have a real process for this country,

which is necessary, a true truth and trauma process to understand that much of where we are right now comes from the history from whence we came. and for us to be honest about the role that race has played in every single facet of our society, part of that must also mean which statues we erect, which monuments do we use taxpayer dollars to clean and protect, and how do we think about our past in relation to how we think about our future. >> wes moore, as always it's wonderful to hear about your insights. thanks for what you do with robin hood, the foundation. thanks for being with us. right now in atlanta the funeral service for rayshard brooks is about to begin. brooks of course is the african-american man fatally shot by atlanta police with an incident that started with him falling asleep in his car with a wendy's parking lot this month. police said he was inebriated. the service at the historic

ebenezer baptist church where dr. martin luther king jr. served as the pastor. rayshard brooks leaves behind his widow tomika miller and his four children. ♪ you're clearly someone who takes care of yourself. so when it comes to screening for colon cancer, don't wait. because when caught early, it's more treatable. i'm cologuard. i'm noninvasive and detect altered dna in your stool to find 92% of colon cancers even in early stages. tell me more. it's for people 45 plus at average risk for colon cancer, not high risk. false positive and negative results may occur. ask your prescriber if cologuard is right for you. i'm on it. that's a step in the right direction.

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voters are heading to the polls in kentucky to choose the democratic candidate to run against mitch mcconnell, a primary rescheduled because of covid-19. the democratic establishment's initial choice for more than a year has been amy mcgrath, who now finds herself in a tightening race against charles booker who has shaken up the contest in the aftermath of the recent anti-police protests. on msnbc earlier, mcgrath and booker slamming mcconnell. >> mitch mcconnell has been there a long time. he was elected two weeks after i was born. he's been screwing us my entire life. we need to end generational

poverty. and we'll beat mitch mcconnell to do it. >> i'm somebody that stands for social justice and for black lives matter. we have support and i've had support from the very beginning of this race, from all 120 counties in kentucky. that's incredible. i don't think mitch mcconnell has had that in the last six years. that shows you the momentum here to get rid of him. >> joining me is msnbc correspondent trymaine lee. the latest episode of his podcast "into america" is on the kentucky primary. let's talk about this primary. this is a completely different race than the one where amy mcgrath was an early biden supporter. she has a lot of establishment democratic support. aoc has been supporting booker. he's a more progressive candidate, and he's obviously got the impetus of the anti-police movement against him -- behind him, rather. >> thank you for having me. good to see you as well. yeah, charles booker has really come in and shaken up this race in very conservative kentucky.

but the shooting death of breonna taylor who was shot in her apartment in the middle of the night by police sent an unrest through the community. charles booker went out there in the streets and protested. while amy mcgrath is the establishment candidate, another 88,000 have already voted early, the polling shows that charles booker is surging ahead. really riding the momentum from these nationwide protests. so while it is very close, charles booker has really come out of nowhere and shaken it up in a way few expected. unless you talk to folks on the ground who say there's always been this ripe opportunity to take advantage of all the folks who haven't voted, haven't registered but now see an opportunity to get into electoral politics or at least support candidates. >> there's always the question of voter suppression and a controversy over the largest african-american district having only one polling place on election day. >> that number is -- it's even

worse than it sounds. it sounds crazy. normally the louisville district has over 200 polling places. now down to one. they moved it to a big arena. they are hoping at least they have the capacity for a bunch of folks. when you talk to people, there's real concern there will be a replay of what we saw in georgia. the hours-long lines. people getting frustrated and many people say, that's the entire point for a lot of people. if you can frustrate the electorate, make people stand in line and make the barrier to actually participating in the election as high as possible, then maybe you'll be able to chip off a few thousand here, a few thousand there. >> conventional wisdom would have it that amy mcgrath as a marine colonel, you know, a middle of the road democrat, would have a better chance of picking up amcconnell's centris seats but conventional wisdom is really out the window this year. we don't know what's going to happen, do we?

>> the campaign -- the booker campaign has a saying from the inner city to the rural areas. they believe they can take their message of unity, especially now where people are grapple with the nature of systemic racism and police reform, there's this cross cultural coalition forming. and their campaign really believes if they can unite folks who haven't typically voted in the same manner, even though it's very conservative kentucky, they might actually have a real shot. but again, that mountain is high. mitch mcconnell, the old stalwart of the grand old party. he's a force in that state. but these folks are riding a lot of momentum. >> stay tuned as they say. we'll have all the results tomorrow. trymaine, thank you. listen to trymaine's podcast "into america." download it now wherever you get your podcasts. that does it for us for "andrea mitchell reports." thanks for being with us. please stay safe. follow us online on facebook and on twitter @mitchellreports. chuck todd and katy tur pick up

our coverage after a break.

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good afternoon in the east. good morning out west. i'm chuck todd. we have a busy day ahead of us here in washington. dr. fauci and other public health experts are testifying before the house energy and commerce committee today. fauci told the committee he is cautiously optimistic there will be a covid-19 vaccine by early 2021 saying it's a question of

when, not if. and he sounded the alarm, though, to a country suffering from lockdown fatigue. >> right now, the next couple of weeks are going to be critical in our ability to address those surges we're seeing in florida, in texas, in arizona and in other states. they're not the only ones having a difficulty. >> meanwhile, president trump is on his way to arizona which just set a new daily record for cases again this morning. in about an hour, the president will visit a new stretch of border wall in yuma and speak to a group of supporters in phoenix. this as the president says the spike in new cases is only because of testing. >> do you have a plan to slow down testing? >> i don't kid. >> by doing all those tests, while it's good to do them, in one way, in another way, it makes us look bad. it's crazy. >> do you mean slow down