call or go online today. good morning, i'm alli vel citi she. president trump is not spending the weekend at his golf resort in new jersey as was his original plan because he wants to make sure law and order is

enforced in washington, d.c. those are his words. it comes as covid-19 cases skyrocket across the country. more than 13 states have cases rising and hospitalizations. and as a kuptd we contincountry set case records daily in the tens of thousands. florida is now organiarguably t epicenter of america, reporting 3900 cases, shattering the cases set the day before. 33,200 new cases have been confirmed in florida just in the past week. the state has now followed texas, another particularly hard-hit state in taking the step of reclosing bars and other minor measures. at the first coronavirus briefing in two months, vice president pence said he and members of his team will visit florida, texas, and hard-hit arizona in a couple days to get a ground report.

why he has to visit those states as they're dealing with a surging pandemic outbreak instead of using the phone is anyone's guess. he also painted a far rozisier picture. >> under president trump we have made truly remarkable progress in moving our nation forward. we did just that. we slowed the spread. we flattened the curve. we saved lives. the reality is we're in a much better place. we're in a much stronger place. the truth is, we did slow the spread. >> obviously, the administration did not slow the spread or they wouldn't have to resurrect the coronavirus briefings. during his remarks, not only did pension urge north koreans wear masks, he didn't wear one himself. he did urge americans four times to pray and said that he is praying that the daily rate of infection doesn't keep rising. not diminishing prayer, i'm just

saying you don't actually have to pray for it to happen, you can just do a few basic things and the infection won't spread. but at least, at least pence semi acknowledged the reality of the situation return like trump. >> we did so well before the plague and we're doing so well after the plague. it's going away. >> it's going away, trump said, during an event in arizona. so, it must be time rejoice. >> and covid-19 is widespread in arizona. it's in all 15 of our counties. it's growing and it's growing fast. we expect that our numbers will be worse next week and the week following in terms of cases and hospitalizations. this virus is everywhere.

it's likely in this room right now. >> we're surging in arizona. so this is basically -- say that is tinder waiting to explode, but i'm thinking that some of that has already been lit and that -- that is concerning, as good as i'm feeling today, if i'm being realistic, both base opened my experiences and the shifts over the last couple weeks and based on what the data show coming for the next few weeks, i think it's going to be really bad. >> the next few weeks are, indeed, going to be really bad. remember, it can take weeks for infections to take hold after a person is exposed. and right now, cases are surging as no major measures or lockdowns have been reimplemented. as we saw in italy, new york, and elsewhere, the simple fact of the matter is if you wait until the surge to implement change, it's too late. joining me now is dr. cameron webb. he's a physician and assistant professor at the university of virginia where he has been

treating covid-19 patients. but return like so many of the doctors we have on, dr. webb is also a candidate for congress out of virginia. and last week he won his primary. and, if elected, dr. webb would become the first black doctor voting member of congress. dr. webb, congratulations on your victory. thank you for being with us. but in this moment, i'm slightly less interested in you as politician and slightly more interested in you as doctor, although wouldn't hurt us if we had more doctors in congress who could be there to not deny the science. talk to me about the obvious things that you are seeing with the increased spread of coronavirus. i have to remind our viewers, we hit a record yesterday for the entire coronavirus. we hit more people getting the infection yesterday than we've had the entire time. >> well, thanks for having me, alli. i'm calling you today from the

coronavirus unit in virginia. i'm on the unit right now. here in virginia, we're not seeing the same numbers that you're seeing in arizona, texas, and florida. but we are seeing increases in some of the nearby states. and what we know is this virus does not respect borders, does not acknowledge borders, so it's kind of incumbent upon everyone to know when we're seeing increases in cases, it's a threat everywhere. and i think that's what we're really aware of, what we're keeping close tabs on, is the fact that the threat is not over. i think, you know, i always say there's ann f infodemic -- pati is problematic because when we see the surge in cases, we know it puts virginia under threat when we're seeing increased case dollars in ov cases in half the united states. >> you have focused on the racial injustices within the health care system. covid has underscored that for people who don't really believe that they exist. but there is the covid injustice in which black and brown people

and those who are poor and have underlying conditions are getting it and dying from it at a substantially higher rate than their proportion in the population. but once we're through coronavirus, the fundamental problem continues to exist. poor people, black and brown people get sick more and die faster than everyone else. >> that's right. and it's rooted in social determinance of health, rooted in -- the residential segregation that we see. it's rooted in issues with transpore occupati transportation issues, and income inequality. and then also it's -- these are all forged by social policies. it's rooted in the lack of access to health care in the first place. those are all things that, again, nothing exists in isolation. these are all things that are very closely related, all things that we need to work on in concert if we want to see improvement. and i think this is -- it's really shown us the fault lines not just in our society, but also in our health care system

in a meaningful way. and health is truly in all of our policies and that if we're going to work on improving the health and well-being of americans, we have to start by rooting out some of the systemic racial injustice in our society. >> all right. you -- you specialize in this, you are a medical doctor, you have a jd in health law. your wife is an emergency physician at uva. you are a resident of charlottesville so you understand the intersections of racism in america. dr. cameron webb, america would be honored to have you in the united states congress. good to see you. congratulations on your victory and thank you for continuing the fight against coronavirus and injustice. dr. cameron webb, university of virginia physician, assistant professor and democratic candidate for congress in virginia's fifth district. president trump has decided the pandemic is the perfect time to continue the fight against all things health care. his administration on thursday filed another challenge against the affordable care act known as obamacare. again arguing that it's illegal

and it must, quote, fall. the administration is also pushing hard to end federal funding in support for covid-19 testing sites just days from now at the end of the month. meanwhile, where his priorities are during this time, the president signed a new executive order yesterday centered on protecting monuments, memorials, and statues. not people, monuments, memorials, and statues. joining me now, senior news correspondent for wbur, kimberly atkins. she's also an "velshi" contributor. she dives into the battle over health care in her latest for wbur. kimberly, we've talked so much about politics, let's go back to this one. regardless of where you stand on donald trump, in the last election, donald trump and lots and lots and lots of republicans who are running for office said we are here to protect underlying conditions. and, yet, the efforts that the administration is involved in

right now would actually very specifically remove protections for underlying and existing conditions and the coverage of those conditions. >> it would. i mean, this challenge essentially says because republicans removed the individual mandate from the law, that now the law is, in effect, it needs to be struck down completely, including those provisions about underlying conditions. keep in mind, when republicans were campaigning in the last election cycle on the message of protecting underlying conditions, they subsequently advanced no policy proposals, no legislation to actually do that. instead, through this court challenge they are trying to strike down basically care completely. since this pandemic has begun and people have listbeen losing their jobs as we report every day, about a half a million people have signed up through the exchange to get health care

because they lost it through their employer. so enrollment is actually going up because that creates a special condition where -- a special circumstance where people can enroll outside of the regular enrollment period. so people are relying on obamacare more than ever. if people do become sick and have complications based on the coronavirus, that will count as an underlying condition when they try to get health care later. so it's a fraught issue right now, but the president attacking obamacare, anything related to his predecessor, seems to be a top priority for this president. >> it's kind of weird, because the number of people in the last election who actually campaigned on this, republicans, were called out by fact-checking sites, by websites as complete falsehoods, that they have actually taken votes in congress to dismantle obamacare and preexisting conditions, which, by the way, for anybody who didn't have insurance, for those people who don't get it through their employer, is a massive impediment to getting insurance.

often you can't get it at all or it can only be had at a rate that people can't afford. >> that's absolutely right. i mean, the reasons -- look, obamacare is far from perfect. but one of the major contributing factors to the fact that for many enrolling in health care it's very difficult and often very expensive is because of the actions that republicans have taken for much of the last decade in rolling back different provisions of basically care that result in higher health care, that takes away subsidies, that does the things that makes health care more difficult to obtain and more expensive to obtain, including those protections for preexisting conditions. so that has been a consistent through line in republican policy for the last decade. and we're seeing that now come to roost at a time when there is a pandemic that shows no sign of abating. many of the republican-run states did not -- did not expand

medicaid under the aca and so you're seeing folks there really suffering, really having an inability to get that health care. which, in itself, leads to an underlying condition. folks who have less health care and access to health care are more likely to have a negative outcome if they do get the coronavirus. >> kim, let's talk about, you know, a media commentator and reporter has said that if we were looking to preserve history through monuments, then germany would be full of hitler and nazi monuments and south africa is a place where they've taken names off of airports and public buildings and roads of apartheid heroes. racism and that sort of thing is not necessarily something that we preserve in the way we've been doing it in the united states. but you made the argument that you don't actually have to preserve confederate history, it exists everywhere, including, you said, very personally in people like you. >> yes. i mean, people -- black

americans like me, i'm one of the many people who's done a dna test and traced ancestry through documents. and it's very clear, very large percentage of my ancestry is european. almost 20%. and certainly no one -- not my -- in any of my family tree identified as a white person. and so what that means is that traces directly back to the people who owned my ancestors and who forcibly forced them to -- force raped them, frankly. so that is carried on. so that's something that black people know, black people have lived with, and black people understand. so the idea that you can erase that history, it's literally in our blood. it's literally in the lives that we live with the systemic racism, that sps not juit's not the request criminal justice system, it's in the health care system and other systems we use for the pursuit of life, liberty, and the pursuit of

happiness. so the idea of taking down a statue of a confederate hero or someone who advocated for slavery is laughable. people who -- if people don't understand that history, it's, in part, due to the poor education system that didn't teach them about it that whitewashed the history of the united states. >> yes. >> and that's a better way to address the preservation of history than focusing so much on the monuments. >> that would be something to look into. kimberly, good to see you as always. senior news correspondent with wbur and an "velshi" contributor. it's never been a good time to take away someone's health care, but think it's safe to say this is probably absolutely the worst time to do it. cath lin, former hhs secretary under the obama administration very involved in the implementation of obamacare will be here in a few minutes to explain why. amacare will be here in a few minutes to explain why. when you think of a bank, you think of people in a place. but when you have the chase mobile app,

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mr. president, drop the lawsuit. stop trying to get rid of the affordable care act. stop taking away people's health care and their peace of mind. i cannot comprehend the cruelty that's driving him to inflict this pain on the very people he's supposed to serve.

>> joe biden calling on trump to withdraw his supreme court interest q to overtu request to overturn the obamacare act. on thursday, the administration telling the high court that the, quote, entire aca must fall, end quote. this move comes as hundreds of thousands of americans have turned to the government insurance program because of job losses during the coronavirus outbreak. the lawsuit facing immediate pushback from both sides of the political aisle. republican senator susan collins of maine saying the administration's decision to submit this new brief is the wrong policy at the worst possible time as our nation is in the mid of the pandemic. it mains the law of the land and it is the department of justice's duty to defend it. house speaker nancy pelosi tweeting in the dead of the night the trump administration has once again asked the supreme court to rip away the

protections and benefits of the affordable care act in the middle of the coronavirus crisis. joining me now, kathleen, former hhs secretary during the obama administration. former governor of kansas, and president and ceo of her company. i want to back up a bit, there's something really weird about the fact that a number of states, republican states, sued the government over the affordable care act. if you're going to sue over the affordable care act, you are suing the federal government the united states. and the federal government joined in that lawsuit. i mean, it's unheard of, a government suing itself over its own policy. >> well, ali, you're right. it makes no sense at all. the affordable care act was signed ten years ago by president obama. and the last estimate is about 23 million americans have insurance today that they wouldn't have otherwise.

either through expanded medicaid programs or through the marketplace. we have about 130 million americans who have some sort of preexisting health condition who actually have protection now that this law is in place that says insurance companies may never again pick and choose who gets coverage. you can't eliminate people who are cancer survivors or have survived a heart attack. they have to be provided coverage. moms of special needs kids are finally able to take a deep breath and know that their children will have insurance coverage into their adulthood. so this is not only a terrible idea at any point, but in the middle of a pandemic when an additional half a million people have found their way to the affordable care act, in spite of the administration refusing to advertise the fact that this is available to people who lose their employment coverage.

they -- they have signed up. and you're absolutely right. the federal government should be defending the law of the land, not trying to strike it down. >> so there are a number of democratic senators who are trying to put forward ideas in which this gets expanded. and medicare or medicaid type of things get expanded to everybody. in fact, a number of conservatives polling indicates are starting to become supportive of something that looks like universal health care. bernie sanders and i talked the other day about the fact that in this time when people lose their jobs, they should immediately have health care extended to them rather than having them have to deal with signing up for unemployment and signing up for health care. we should use a more european system. it's actually moving the other way. humans, american humans are beginning to understand why some form of universality in health care is necessary in these times and, yet, this republican

administration and republican senators and members of congress across the country continue to choose to be on the wrong side of history. >> well, you have the irony of cases surging in coronavirus. we have a vice president leading the president's coronavirus task force. when he took over the task force, there were 40 deaths in the united states. we now have 127,000 deaths. and the task force leader continues to try to declare victory. we're finished. we're done. we've done a great job. every health expert says we are in a terrifying period. the two largest states where cases are surging, florida and texas, have the largest number of people eligible for medicaid. they have refused to expand medicaid. so they're in a situation of dealing with this spike in cases with overrun hospitals and with the largest portion of the population who can't pay their medical bills now. that would happen all over this

country. if you got rid of the affordable care act as the republican administration is advocating, the 36 states who have expanded medicaid would suddenly find giant additional holes in their budget and millions of people across this country who couldn't pay their doctor bills, who couldn't pay their hospital bills, couldn't buy medication. it would have the largest single, i think, negative effect on the economy that we have seen in a very long time. in an economy that's already struggling. so, i have no idea who is advising the administration. it's cruel, it's unusual, and it's very, very dangerous to millions of people across this land that the administration would take away their health care, take away their ability to seek medical care at a time when we have the worst outbreak of a virus we've ever had in the

united states. >> kathleen, former secretary of health and human services, thank you for joining us this morning. >> thank you. minneapolis is now one step closer to dismantling its police department. it's radical, but it might be necessary for change. i'm going to speak to two of the city's council members next. g e city's council members next. >> no singular saction goiactio to undo longstanding oppression, racial oppression, and that this is one action of many that we need to take on this road to a more equitable and just system that keeps people safe. at keep. and right now, love is more important than ever. in response to covid-19, subaru and our retailers are donating fifty million meals to feeding america, to help feed those who now need our help. its all part of our commitment to our communities through subaru loves to help.

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after the unrest fog tllowi the death of george floyd. the city council started the process of abolishing the police in minnesota's largest city. it would remove the minneapolis

charter requirement that the city council fund a police force that say proportion of the city's residents and would instead create a new department, quote, to provide for community safety and violence prevention. there would still be a division of sworn law enforcement reorganized within this new department, but this is the first step toward transformative change in a process that will take several months of committee reviews to make the november ballot where minneapolis voters will ultimately have the final say. if this amendment fails to make it to a referendum this fall, city leaders would have to wait until 2021 to try again. joining me now are two members of the city council. thank you to both of you for joining us. andrea jenkins, what do you foresee happening given the context of what you've got right now? will the uniform change? will there still be people in uniform? will every police officer lose

their jobs and have to reapply? how does this play out in your mind? >> thank you, ali, for inviting me to be a part of this discussion today. i really don't want to necessarily put my own stamp on this. i think this is -- it has to be a community process of what our new public safety continuum is going to look like. i do think that it will have, as you noted, sworn law enforcement professionals as a part of that continuum. i think we'll have social workers and mental health workers as a part of that continuum. i think there will be youth violence prevention workers as a part of that continuum. but, again, it all is going to be a planning process with our community to figure out what that all looks like.

>> councilwoman, you didn't join this pledge to do it. you obviously think there's something critically wrong with the minneapolis police department. it's -- a lot of it seems to be something very wrong with the union and the union leader there. but what do you think success looks like? >> you know, i think success looks like ultimately the residents of minneapolis having a say in what -- in what this setup looks like in our city charter. ultimately, what we all agree on is that we're invest and focusing on violence prevention. if not more so than at least as much as we're focusing on violence response. we need to do this in evidence-based ways, is what i think success looks like. i hear from constituents a lot about a lot of interesting building out more of our coresponder models. coresponders with mental health professionals where you have sworn officers going in to

secure a scene and then allowing mental health professionals to take over in some kinds of response -- >> councilwoman jenkins, you have -- let's just address what we all know to be the case. there are all sorts of problems with all sorts of police departments across the puntcoun many are exacerbated by their unions and you may have the worst example of that of any city in the country. you've got a union leader there of the police who is out of control, is a fire brand, and has a lot of police officers who follow his lead rather than the actual police chief's lead. how much of that is the problem and how much of that gets solved by what you're proposing? >> yeah, i think that is -- that is an enormous problem and a big obstacle to making the kinds of changes that the community deserves and that we are all -- my colleagues and i are working to effectuate.

you know, i don't know if i agree that minneapolis is the only city in america with a problematic police union. i've listened to union presidents from all around the country, particularly in new york city, and they all seem very egregious in terms of really supporting what community wanted. it's like there's this us against them mentality that permeates police departments throughout the country and certainly minneapolis is no exception to that. it's a big problem and think these measures that we are seeking to undertake will help us to address some of those issues with the union and it's a big obstacle to reform the kinds of changes and reimagination that the community desires and

deserves. >> councilwoman, how much of this is structure and how much of this is culture? >> that's a good question, ali. you know, we work on the constrachbco constraints of our city charter requires for the size of our population to have approximately 730 employees in our police force. right now we have about 1,000 employees, over 800 of which are sworn law enforcement professionals. i think that the author's interest in this charter vote is really about giving residents the power to choose, to take away that constraint and create a new container for public safety in our city. that doesn't change the culture of our existing minneapolis police department. and that is something that takes other avenues to address.

>> well, you have a big project ahead of you both regardless of how this goes and the rest of america is going to be watching very closely. andrea jenkins is the advice pref president of the minneapolis city council. thank you both to joining us and thank you for having this important conversation because we're all going to have to figure it out across this nation. thanks to bong of yth of you an luck. who is the best woman for the job? we'll take a close look at the short list when velshi returns it the how about no

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of the situation. one of the things -- >> that's florida governor ron desantis continuing to argue that he did the right thing even though florida saw the highest number of coronavirus cases yesterday. and, in fact, it was a much bigger number than the highest number the day before and on wednesday. i want to talk about vice-presidential candidates. welcome back. karen bass is a top contender. biden's vowed to select a woman and the list of potential running mates includes a host of them from across the country, highly qualified women. one of those leading ladies even appeared with biden's wife jill yesterday during a virtual event. >> know the power's with the people to elect the right people, and in this case to elect joe biden's. but the outcome of this election is going to affect us for generations on all of the topics that we have discussed. and it is within our grasp, it

is within our grasp to elect joe biden. and, but we cannot take anything for granted. >> one contender, senator amy klobuchar recently withdrew her name from consideration saying biden should select a woman of color. however, the "new york times" poll shows american voters overwhelmingly say that race shouldn't play any factor at all. joining me now, political columnist for "the washington post." also with me msnbc news correspondent mike memmaly. his dives in the other women in joe biden's life and his real running mate, his wife jill. let me start with you, karen. good morning to both of you. let's talk about what stand in front of joe biden. he has made a commitment to choose a woman. a number of people have said he should choose a woman of color and a number of african americans think that thank you

be the case. talk to me about what his calculus looks like right now. >> first of all, think we should stipulate that running mates don't win elections. i think you have to go all the way back to john kennedy and lyndon johnson in texas in 1960 to find a place where the choice of a running mate carried a state that the candidate couldn't have carried by himself. so, the running mate really matters only at the margins. and joe biden knows because he's been vice president, he's picking not just a running mate but a governing partner. he would be taking office at the age of 78. he has not discouraged speculation that he might be a one-term president, which means i think people are really going to be placing a premium on someone who would be capable of becoming president herself on relatively short notice, which means experience is really going to matter.

executive experience, foreign policy experience, and, you know, fortunately for him, on that very diverse list of -- that you just showed, there are a number of women who have those qualifications. >> mike memoli, let's talk about who's at the top of that list. let me keep that list up for a second while it's on the screen. we have stacey abrams, karen bass, keisha lance bottoms, val demings, tammy duck korth were tammy baldwin, michelle grish happen is, kamala harris, gaggy haas san, susan rice, elizabeth warren, gretchen whitmer. you've seen a number of these women appear with joe biden. you've seen val deming's name come up a lot because she was a police chief. you see keisha lance bottoms on tv a lot talking about things. what's your sense of how this is unfolding? >> well, ali, you're using the

right word, which is sense. i want to let you in on a little secret here. the biden campaign has been very tight lipped, frustratingly tight lipped about this process. and that's to be expected. so a lot of these stories you're seeing from myself, from others, let's just say it's hearsay compounded with a little bit of pund entry and punditry and a little bit our gut about what's going on. karen hit on an important point. the one thing i can tell you for sure that's changed about the way the biden team has looked that the process, the selection, is to say that they're not in a rush to make a decision. there was some discussion early on about announcing the running mate earlier than they need to, which is usually right before the convention. there's been a lot of pressure about should he choose someone to match this moment now, obviously the post george floyd. and i think the biden team has looked at this for the reason karen looks at it, that you want a governing partner.

somebody who cannot just speak to this moment now. if it was making a decision two months ago, there would have been a lot of pressure about picking somebody who could unite the party and govern effectively. maybe elizabeth warren would have been the pick. kamala harris is the pick. it was one year ago today that we had that first debate where kamala harris took the fight directly to joe biden about his record on bussing. it was joe biden a few months ago who appeared to throw some cold water on kamala harris' prospects saying it was a real punch in the gut that moment on the debate stage. also i'd say that they've all moved beyond this moment, but i would note what jill biden has written in her book, which is that her husband doesn't hold grudges, she holds grudges and she remembers every slight committed against somebody she loves and she doesn't believe in rewarding bad behavior. jill biden is one of the very few people who literally at biden's side throughout all this pandemic as he hasn't left his

home much and so her image looms large in this process. >> karen, you say vice president candidates don't win elections. but there's a certain relevance in donald trump choosing mike pence who nobody doubts is actually a doctrine conservative. the questions that he brings up about his age and vigor and energy, does the age or the perceived vigor of the vice-presidential candidate become morel than relevant tha typically would? >> i think it would. and combined with qualifications and combined with experience, i also think this year's vice-presidential debate is going to be very, very interesting to watch. i agree with mike, kamala harris, i would think right now is the candidate to beat for the nod. and, you know, she was pretty effective in some of these

debates, you know, landing blows, inclueding blow blows, including on joe biden. and we've seen here in hearing rooms, she's a devastating interrogator. so that might also be weighing in her favor right now. >> mike, we've also seen elizabeth -- we've also eseen elizabeth warren as a great debater. and kamala harris might be a great attorney general and val demings is a time, a former police chief in a time when policing is the central issue. to what degree do specific qualifications or what that person might otherwise do in a biden administration play into the decision? or are they all secondary? >> no, it's not ali. in fact, the former vice president himself has said that it's entirely possible he might not just announce who his

vice-presidential running mate will be in the fall campaign, but he might announce some of the names of cabinet members who he might select if he were to win. he just last week, in fact, officially formed his transition panel, named some of the names who are going to be helping him make those decisions as well. so as he's looking at this vice-presidential selection process, he's absolutely also considering who might fit in some of these other positions. we're about a month away from when the former vice president has promised that decision is going to come on vp. and we know that they're at a much more intense phase. now we're getting to the point where his personal interviews with the candidates are going to be so important. >> all right. we're going to be talking about this a lot and soon -- one day we will have a vice-presidential candidate. thank you to both of you. mike has been on the biden beat for us for a long time. thanks to both of you. 40 acres and a mule, that was the original promise to newly freed slaves at the end of the civil war. that plan which now almost seems

proto socialist in today's society didn't actually happen because in 1865, president lincoln was assassinated and his racist pro southern vice president andrew johnson took control over reconstruction of the south. that was the first concept of reparations and one that never came to fruition. now we've seen reparations beginning to take shape in the legacy of private institutions. take georgetown university, for example, a school that changed names of buildings and offered legacy status to descendents of 272 slaves sold by jesuit catholic priests to save the university from bankruptcy in the early 1800 s. the school grasping with its own history in order to reconcile with the past. now a new generation of protests has reignited a discussion of reparation including cash payments to the formerly enslaved slaves. this as black families have 10% of the wealth that white families have accumulated.

let me just be clear about this, it takes the wealth of ten black households to equal the wealth of one median white household in america. with me now is nicole hannah jones. a pulitzer prize journalist and the author of a new article entitled "what is owed." great to see you. you actually mention, you tweeted that you weren't sure about putting this article out here. you weren't sure it was time to be written but you decided it was time for white america not just to read books, not to be allies and not for companies to say the right things but to understand there is an actual debt that can be monetized that is owed to descendents of slaves. tell me how you conceptualize this. >> absolutely. so i had been researching an essay for reparations that was going to be part of the 1619 book project but it wasn't to come out until sometime next

year, but as i was watching people taking to the streets and these protests, i just kept thinking, we're not actually getting to the root of black disadvantage in this country. you know, slavery and jim crow were systems of economic exploitation above all else and they led to the extraction of wealth from black americans and the inability of black americans to accumulate wealth. when we look at why do black people struggle with poverty? why do black americans live in the most segregated neighborhoods? why do we attend the most inferior schools? why are we the most likely to be policed? all of this goes back to wealth yet we weren't having that conversation. the very least we should expect of our society is citizens cannot be killed by law enforcement with no consequence. if we are going to be in a transformational moment, we have to do something about black wealth and how wealth proscribes black wealth in this country. >> the theft of black wealth is

a question that a lot of people have trouble with. as they are tea coming to terms with their privilege, and i would argue that many americans are now doing so. as they're coming to terms with their privilege they have trouble with the idea that i didn't participate in that original sin, in that theft. i didn't hold slaves. my family didn't hold slaves. when polled do you think the federal government should or shouldn't pay money to black americans whose ancestors were slaves? 73% say no. so what's the conversation to be had with those people who wish to be allies, who wish to understand their privilege, who wish to understand that something needs to change in terms of the fact that if you didn't have slaves and you didn't participate in the original sin, your participation in the privilege makes you culpable? >> right. so i think i try to make it very clear in the article that reparations is not about punishing white americans.

reparations is a societal dent. debt. no one signed the constitution yet we still want the protections of that constitution. we still understand how we benefit from the constitution even though we weren't personally involved with that. that's the same thing for society. the wealth of early america was built on enslaved labor and we also followed that with a period of 100 years of legalized racial discrimination against black americans that kept black people even after slavery from acquiring the wealth that white americans have acquired. i think we need to think about this as a debt that our society owes, not that individual white americans owe. because whether you participated or not, white people are beneficiary of a 350 year system of legal discrimination. the last point i'd like to quickly make on that, black people during slavery, immediately after slavery tried to sue for reparations. they tried to get reparations from the government or a pension

for formerly enslaifd people and they were a small minority in a white majority country. when we make the a argument that all of the enslaved people are dead, that's because government refused to pay reparations to those people until they died. if i have to sue a hospital because they killed my loved one and that hospital fights that lawsuit for 20 years until i die, that doesn't mean that that debt goes away. now you have to pay it to my children because you fought what you were supposed to do to make things right. that's the same thing that happened in america. discrimination did not end with slavery. i make the case very clearly in my article that until, you know, my father's generation was still living under racial a ppartheidn this country and the theft of wealth continued until then. >> nicole, great to talk to you, as always, but it is more important to read your writing on this one because you lay it

out in such remarkable detail and provide such -- >> thank you. >> -- important anecdotes. people ask me all the time on twitter, how do i learn more about this? while it is not the responsibility of african-americans to teach the rest of us how to do it, the reading is available and much of it comes from you. nicole hannah jones, "new york times" magazine pulitzer prize winning journalist. thank you for joining me. that does it for me. thank you for watching me today. you can catch me back here tonight at 7 p.m. eastern. i'm what you call the cover for global citizen. i'm kind of the kickoff. so you might want to watch that. i'm going to be full o popular culture. i'm here tomorrow morning 8 to 10 a.m. eastern for another edition of "velshi." next on "am joy," they're going to have interviews about the new direction the democratic party is taking. arty is taking.

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