the great principles of political freedom and natural justice embodied in that declaration of independence extended to us? >> i am not included within the pale of this glorious anniversary. >> your high independence only reveals the immeasurable distance between us. good morning, welcome to "a.m. joy." i'm in for joy reid. the words you just heard were

written by frederick douglass and spoken by his descendants that remind us that there is no other holiday more symbolic of american patriotism than the 4th of july. but today, it's being celebrated as other symbols of this nation's past are toppling down. we're seeing the removal of confederate statues by protesters and by state leadership, mississippi, stripping the confederate symbol from its flag. and even the statue outside new york's famed natural museum of history. you know the statue of theodore roosevelt on horseback flanked by an indigenous man and an african man. that's coming down, too. which may explain why donald trump chose the most graddious symbol of u.s. imperialism on earth to issue an on brand star-spangled spectacle complete with fireworks and military plyovers. it was trump ad predict -- flyovers. it was trump ad predictable way of throwing red meat to his

becaus base. let's talk truth here. mt. rushmore isn't exactly the innocent ode to our founding fathers as described in our textbooks. it's high time we disrupt that false narrative that far too many people believe. the landmark famously or infamously depicts four of our america's celebrated presidents on granite slope over the black hills of south dakota. what's missing from those glossy brochures is that george washington and thomas jefferson enslaved black people. and abraham lincoln, although he signed the emancipation proclamation, also approved the largest mass execution in u.s. history. the hanging of 38 dakota indians. and teddy roosevelt once wrote, quote, i don't go so as far to think that the only good indians are dead indians, but i believe nine out of ten are. these are the four men who are immortalized on a tourist trap that erases indigenous history.

their faces chiseled by the sculptor who was intensely entangled in the politics of the kkk, attending klan rallies and even serving on a few klan committees. and so choosing this spot built on sacred indigenous land that was seized illegally and at a time when america finally faces a reckoning over its ugly racial history, wasn't just a wink at white supremacy. this was a rallying call. >> ourniti nation is witnessing campaign to wipe out our history, defame our heroes, erase our values, and endoctrine ate our children. angry bahammobs are trying to t down statues of our founders, deface our most sacred memorials and unleash a wave of violent crime in our cities. >> trump's speech was an ugly

and callus disregard of demands from social activities as well as health experts. very few in the crowd last night were wearing masks. perhaps taking their cue from south dakota's mask-averse republican governor nome. here's what she said days before the event. >> we told those folks that have concerns that they can stay home. but those who want to come and join us, we'll be giving out free face masks if they choose to wear one. we won't be social distancing. >> but just before last night's event, we learned that trump campaign aide kimberly guilfole, the girlfriend of donald trumper j, tested positive for covid-19. she traveled to south dakota with don jr., and the white house claims that he tested negative. but the virus wasn't the only risk last night. fireworks went off despite a decade-long ban on pyrotechnics at mt. rushmore because of concerns over wildfires and groundwater pollution.

a ban trump flippantly reversed back in january. >> what can burn? it's stone. you know, it's stone. so nobody knew why, they just said environmental reasons. i called up our people, and within about 15 minutes, we got it approved. and you're going to have your first big fireworks display at mt. rushmore. >> and so here we are celebrating the birth of a nation, independence for white men, at a site described as a native american activist as, quote, a symbol of white supremacy. trump choosing mt. rushmore for a campaign stop is like when he chose the site of the 1921 massacre of americans for his jean teenth rally. the jab to black, brown, and indigenous people that makes the shrinking maga voter feel as big as a 60-foot face of a

colonizing slave owner. let's talk to truth. jesse ross, friend and co-host of "break dances with wolves," and sarah manning, director of communications for the indian collective. i should note that we were supposed to have ted neilson who was arrested last night, unfortunately, at the rally. so i'll start with you, sarah. you've been in touch with people on the ground. can you please paint the picture for our viewers, what was it like there on the ground last night? >> yeah. first of all, thank you so much for having me. last night, it was a beautiful moment of lakota and indigenous people standing to defend their treaty rights, their original homelands, the sacred black hills to the lakota people. indian collective president, ceo tillson was on the ground among folks who wanted to take a stand and didn't want to stand for this moment of the united states president trying to rouse his base in an effort to just

galvanize this growing white supremacy that we see happening. so it was a really great moment of men, women, children of all ages, standing to defend their treaty rights and their rights as indigenous people. >> thanks for that. i do want to correct myself. it's nick neilson, president and ceo of the collective. we know he's arrested. is he okay? what was the confrontation like? >> yeah. nick is okay. he's actually still in custody right now and will stay there until monday. him and about 15 other indigenous folks were arrested on the front lines yesterday. and it was really a peaceful event. they erected a road blockade, men, women, and children were there singing traditional songs. they had -- nick attempted to negotiate as you see here with some of the police officers, allowing the women and children and those who didn't want to get arrested to leave the site if that's what they wanted -- if that's what they chose to do.

he was eventually taken into custody with about 12 to 15 other innerbelt brid indigenous folks and allies. >> can you educate our viewers? a lot of people don't know the history of mt. rushmore. there was a treaty between the indigenous people and the united states government. can you break that down for our viewers? >> sure, absolutely. and even predating that treaty, the indigenous folks have sovereign right to this land as the first nations. yes, the treaty was signed between the united states government and the lakota people and other indigenous nations, ensuring that that land would remain theirs. and treaties, according to the u.s. constitution, are the supreme law of the land, according to the supremacy clause. indigenous folks fighting for their treaty rights in essence are upholding the constitution. so for all those constitution lovers out there, treaties are the supreme law of the land. and the united states government eventually broke that treaty. they're violating their own

laws. the lakota, dakota and people are people of crazy horse, these are people of great chiefs and defenders who defended their land and their right to live. these are people who are descendants of the modhi massacre where they go and pray in the black hills, they gather medicines in the black hills. these are lands sacred to them, whether or not the united states honored that treaty. the united states government attempted to pay off the lakota people with a million -- multimillion dollar settlement that's in the billions now that the lakota people have not accepted because they're not ready -- they don't want to accept payment for their land. that land is still theirs. that land is still sacred. >> and i should note that the payment has escalated to what would be $1 billion right now, which punctuates how valuable the land is to you for intangible reasons that you just laid out. thank you for that. jessie, i want to turn to you. handicap what you thought of the speech last night. when trump was seaing that, you know, they're trying to erase

our history and kind of revisionist history that he referenced, i had to ask myself is he talking about the indigenous people, african-americans? what history is trying to be erased? tell me what you hear and how you found his remark last night. >> well, first of all, congratulations on hosting. it's nice to see you in that chair. and sarah, good morning. nice to see you, as well. it's such a -- you know, obviously this and as you pointed out dreamwood, north tulsa, the rallies being at these particular places, this is not coincidental. this man is a master showman. he is somebody who understands hot buttons and red meat and plays to that very, very egregiously. it's not enough that we're going to flout every bit of science and do this rally without masks

explicitly. it's not enough that we're going to do this in sacred lands of lakota people and a place that has been marked by -- it's been polluted, it's been desecrated by putting these slave-owning, racist, horrible, horrible white men in 60-foot statues on this wall. it's not enough that we're going to utilize every bit of -- not even dog wisehistle, but expres racist rhetoric. it's not enough that he do this, but instead we have to do this on the day that symbolizes for a good portion of the united states that doesn't know better the notion, the spectacle of freedom. of course we know that, you know, we understands speaking of dog whistles, we understand how smart dogs are at this time of year because they're the only ones that are smart enough to get away from the fireworks. they know that it has nothing to do with freedom. we should be hiding from that

language. we should be hiding from that rhetoric. you know, it's a -- it's a travesty that this happened, but it's also amazing -- and i'm so thankful for nick tilson and the native americans who say we're going to fight for something more than the illusion of freedom, for something more than fireworks. and in that regard, i'm thankful to the black lives matter activists who started this entire movement in recent times and said we're also going to sacrifice for freedom. we're going to show how to be warriors just like these native people. and you know, that list goes down multigeneration allie, and it's powerful. so the spectacle, yeah, it's kind of what we expect from donald trump. it's a clown show, and you know, hopefully we send this clown back to the circus so maybe he can get eaten by a lion. you know, what i'm taking from

it is the fact that we have so many people that are willing to sacrifice, to stand up to these spectacles and get to tangible change as opposed to just the symbols of change coming up in about 130 days at the election and get rid of this dude and start toward something of meaningful import. >> thank you. let me ask you both -- and jesse, i'll start with you. i think a lot of people in this country don't really know the history, the violent and brutal history, of our founding fathers. do you think if more people understood the history that they perhaps might understand some of the protests from the indigenous people of this country and african-americans in this country? or do you think that people would continue to be indifferent because it's not their lineage and not their heritage? jesse, i'll start with you and turn to you, sarah. >> history shows that what so-called white allies are largely only responsive and going to be involved to the degree that it affects them or

that something is in vogue or fresh or -- or topical. i think that's changing. i truly believe that's changing. the reason why is what derek bell would call interest convergence. that they understand that, you know, folks are going to turn up. and folks have been turning up. and that's not going to stop. and thank goodness, thank goodness -- you know, people, looters got a bad name during the george floyd protests. but thank goodness for the looters, man. you have a place called target, you have a store called target, you're going to be a target. you know, these places have absolutely contributed to the oppression, these retail places have contributed to the oppression of our people. there's over-policing of brown and black bodies within retail spaces. i think that a good portion of the people, white people that otherwise would not be activated this time are realizing, no, this is going to affect me, this is going to affect my pocketbook, this is going to

affect my community. so perhaps i should give a damn. i think that's going to be the difference in this new era. >> let me quickly turn to sarah. we're running out of time. sarah, quickly, any closing remarks? >> sure, yeah. indigenous visibility totally matters. according to a study in 2018 the reclaiming native truth project, approximately 40% of americans didn't even know that native americans existed. if they don't know that we exist, how can we address issues of police violence against native americans? the high rate of suicide and mortality on reservations? when schools don't -- when schools stop teaching about native americans after the 1800s. history does matter. our history triggers the vast majority of americans. we're evidence of the crime as the late and great prolific poet john trudel would say. it's very, very hard for americans to look at our history. but we're in a time of

reckoning. we're in a time when young people zoomers and millennials, they want to know the truth. so it's going to happen. we're in exciting times right now. and folks want to know more. america wants to know more. they don't want to believe in lies anymore. >> all right. i should note that what happens at mt. rushmore is not unique. we've seen at standing rock and the hamptons, situations like this. thank you for being with me. the segment could have been a lot longer but we're out of time. my friend jesse will be back in the next hour. i thank you, sarah manning, for joining me. coming up, a former navy s.e.a.l. has all the words for trump on this 4th of july. so keep it right here. ♪ ♪all strength ♪we ain't stoppin' believe me♪ ♪go straight till the morning look like we♪ ♪won't wait♪ ♪we're taking everything we wanted♪ ♪we can do it ♪all strength, no sweat

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my name is dan burkoff. i'm a 2001 united states naval academy graduate. i'm an ex-navy s.e.a.l. current ly an emergency room physician and founder of veterans for responsible leadership. months ago, donald trump learned

that the russians were paying bounties for dead american soldiers in afghanistan. he chose to do nothing about it. any commander in chief with a spine would be stomping the living [ bleep ] out of some russians right now. diplomatically, economically, or, if necessary, with the sort of asymmetric warfare they're using to send our kids home in body bags. mr. trump, you're either a coward who can't stand up to an ex-kgb goon, or you're complicit. which is it? >> wow. in a moment i'll be speaking with dr. dan barkoff about that bombshell "new york times" report published over a week ago. donald trump denies that he had any advanced knowledge of the alleged bounties. but as the ad for the lincoln project underscores, trump still hasn't told the american public or the world how this administration plans to punish russia. instead, he and the white house have reacted the way they normally do about these types of stories. from denying ever being told to calling it a hoax.

here's a doozy from the white house press secretary. >> i would reask the question of whether it was in his material but asking maybe to defend why the president isn't necessarily reading it when there are these types of issues that arise. >> the president does read and also consumes intelligence verbally. this president, i'll tell you, is the most informed person on planet earth when it comes to the threats that we face. >> somehow a briefing of this magnitude got past the most informed person on planet earth. officials tell "the new york times" trump got a written briefing back in february on possible russian bounties. meanwhile, nbc news reports that the white house learned of russian bounty intelligence in early 2019. joining me now, msnbc contributor and foreign correspondent for "the new york times" who has been covering this story. dr. dan barkoff, who you just saw in the commercial, founder

of veterans for responsible leadership and my friend, naira hawk, former state department senior adviser and former white house senior director in the obama administration. thank you guys for being here. dr. barkoff, i actually want to start with you. first of all, that ad is extraordinarily powerful. the closing gave me goosebumps. listen, i think for a lot of people this if nothing else is the line to cross. when you are literally appearing to be complacent with the foreign adversary at best or complicit as you suggest in the ad at worst. tell me what it took to make you step out, why speak out at this point, how did you get involved in the lincoln project? and how are you feeling about the commander in chief commanding our military forces right now? >> thanks, joy. happy to be here. so you know, there's a couple things to unpack there. but you know, convincing me to speak out -- i founded veterans

for responsible leadership in what seems like ancient history now back in 2017 with the michael flynn scandal. it started as a small facebook group and grew to something that has a couple thousand members at this point. you know, the russian bounty story is just such a betrayal from, you know, on multiple levels. you know, he -- he clearly -- and i can't speculate as to what his motives are aside from, you know, i think the guy's frankly a coward and cannot -- cannot stand up to vladimir putin. and whether you're a liberal or a conservative, you know, standing up to someone who's putting cash bounties out for dead american soldiers, that's implied in the task of being the president of the united states. >> so i'm curious before i move to my other guests, how are your fellow men in uniform and men and women in uniform reacting to

this? we've seen he enjoyed support from the military, quite frankly. so people who you talk to, how do they feel about this presiden president? >> sure. so you know, trump did enjoy a great deal of support initially. you know, i think folks in the military and -- i want to preface this by saying i certainly do not speak for everyone in the military and people are entitled to make up their own mind. i've seen more and more veterans and active duty service members reach out to me telling me that this is just ridiculous. i mean, there is no job in the military save perhaps commander in chief that you could ever entrust donald trump with. he couldn't lead a fire team. he couldn't be a pfc and make it through boot camp. he certainly couldn't be a battalion commander in an army infantry abobattalion. there is no job i would trust this man with when it comes to folks on active duty.

he's clearly demonstrated he is out for himself. he's not a team player. and folks in the military are starting to pick up on that. he's always going to have his supporters, and that's fine. we're citizens with democracy, and people can have their own point of view. more and more folks are saying this is just gone on long enough. >> rick, i want to turn to you now. i was reading your reporting in "the new york times" about the cia memo. tell us the latest in your reporting on where this entire issue stands in the intel community and what the potential fallout may be. >> so at this point, we know that the president received at least two different intelligence products indicating that this bounty was being paid by russia to kill americans in afghanistan. there was the presidential daily briefing in february. then in may there was something called "the wire," a cia product that we believe he also saw. most recently in the last couple of days, there's been yet another memo from the

intelligence communities that informs the theory that russia paid this money to these intermediaries of the taliban. but what's interesting about the product is that it appears to put a lot of focus on the gaps in the intelligence, on the things that may not be true. and as my colleagues reported, it seems that this new memo, which essentially came out after "the new york times" broke the story, is trying to -- is trying to maybe put cold water on it and make it look like the intelligence is not as solid as we believe it is. >> unbelievable. so naira, you and i have shared a screen or two in our past. i remember early on, you talked about how it looked on the world stage for donald trump to essentially surround himself with his family. and you said that was something very comparable to dictators across the country. i'm particularly curious your perspective on what this current situation with russia and the

taliban, what signal that sends to leaders, other leaders on the global stage. >> i appreciate, tiffany, that you're focusing on donald trump's behavior and not just russia because i think that can be a red herring and a distraction at this moment. russia's always been an adversary. sometimes they've been a partner in different parts of afghanistan. this goes back to the early 1980s. so it's a complex relationship that the commander in chief, president trump, needs to understand. now the defense from the white house early on was, well, he didn't read the briefing. now it is, well, he's the most informed person. it ultimately is focusing on the capabilities of our president to even absorb basic information to do his job. i mean, that is the conversation that the white house is trying to project to the rest of the world. not how are we going to hold russia accountable, how are we going to do any countermeasures, the allies were not informed. at some point, the british may have been at risk, as well. we are alienating allies right

now. and we are going along with russia and allowing them to have a space almost entirely to themselves with zero reaction from the united states. this is once again a concept of america first that really is america alone. and i'd go so far as to say right now america looking stupid. >> wow. so because that you were involved in foreign policy during the obama administration, i find fascinating about this story that some of the revelations that came out of john bolton's book. he said that he has enough scars from trying to bring up russia to donald trump, who seems very resistant to even having a conversation or engaging about anything negative about putin. so what is the recourse quite honestly for the intel community or for people who are trying to keep this president informed when he's resistant to facts and information? and he doesn't appear to read, according to reports, his daily intel briefing. how essentially do we lead on the global stage around issues like this?

particularly when it's costing american lives. >> this is where it gets -- you see the commonality between what's going on domestically and what's going on overseas, right. we have a president who for whatever reason will always double down on white supremacy and support of people who, for example, want to keep confederate statues up. the same thing when it comes to overseas. he has picked his friends, considered allies of the united states. and those friends are autocrats and dictators, right. the saudis and the russians. and he will never hear anything that suggests that they are not working with him. they're happy to pick up the phone and butter him up. whereas euour allies, whereas w need to work with the global stage. unfortunately, this means that our men and women on the grounds ground, intel, diplomats, have to make what little gains they can independent of a larger,

broader strategy. let's not forget we have been in afghanistan for more than 20 years now. and that is a conversation that this president has not had with the american public of what is the point, what are we there for, and what is in america's national security interests. and unfortunately, i don't see this president capable of having that broader strategic conversation with the american public or with the rest of the world. >> all right. well, it's independence day. i want to give dr. barkoff the last word. i imagine that our men and women in uniform may not have the best morale right now. so if you could deliver some words of encouragement, what would you say to your fellow people in uniform on this day given what's happened with these revelations from "the new york times"? dr. barkoff, i'll give it to you. >> sure. so i'd slightly disagree with that characterization although i think it's from a good place. the men and women in uniform today are professionals. i don't expect that their morale is affected whatsoever and their ability to do their job.

you know, i was proud to serve alongside them. they're complete professionals, they will get the job done, theythey will keep us safe. i thank men and women in uniform for keeping my family safe. >> fair enough. i appreciate that. thank you for your service. thank you all for joining me. thank you, dr. dan barkoff, naira. stick around, we have more. next up, the trump administration is pushing a dangerous drug on the american people again. more after the break. liberty mutual customizes break your car insurance,

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we have had some great response in terms of doctors writing letters and people talking about hydroxychloroqu e hydroxychloroquine. this guy's fighting it. no reason to fight it. there's no reason. but more importantly than that, we've had tremendous response to the hydroxy. >> donald trump's fixation on

pushing the drug hydroxychloroquine seems to have disappeared the last few weeks. just like the coronavirus, it's now back in full force. on friday, trump super fan and adviser peter navarro spewed a racist conspiracy theory about the coronavirus and pushed trump's favorite drug like a used car salesman in a bonkers interview with my friend, the great ali velshi. >> the two things i want to share with the audience is the chinese communist party is responsible for every bad thing we're experiencing right now. two, hydroxychloroquine needs a second look because if people in early treatment were taking this drug under the supervision of their physician, we have the potential to save tens of thousands of american lives and perhaps millions worldwide. >> okay. so we already told you that trump isn't big on that whole reading thing. maybe his pal peter may also

have the same problem. both seem to have missed the fact that the fda issued a new warning on the drug earlier this week. their new warning lists serious heart problems, blood and lymph system disorders, kidney injuries, and liver failure. more on trump's pe pandemic nex. pt (mom) come on, hurry up! all systems go? (mission control) 5 4 3 2... ignition and liftoff. (vo) audi e-tron. the next frontier of electric.

the rock on which he stands is not a rock -- it is the

united states of america! [ cheers ] >> from five, four, three, two, one, begin -- >> we are off in the 103rd iteration of the nathan's famous hot dog-eating contest. joey chestnuts, the man to beat. >> okay. 4th of july traditions like the annual nathan's hot dog eating contest are going to look drastically different there year. the famous competition will have no crowds this time around, and the cookouts and barbecues that have become staples of 4th of july celebrations will likely be non-existence due to covid-19. on friday, the u.s. set a record for new cases with more than 57,000 confirmed in one day bringing the total to over 2.8 million. as we noted earlier, the pandemic has once again reached trump's inner circle. kimberly guilfole, campaign aide and girlfriend of donald trump jr., has tested positive for

covid. the white house says don jr. tested negative, and they claim neither has been in direct contacts with the president. joining me is former republican congressman david jolly, allege congressman rube n gallego, and msnbc medical contributor. thank you for being here on this independence day. i want to start with our doctor on the panel today. so doctor, i want to ask you, given the spike that we've seen in the country, how much of this would you say is just the virus finding host and running its course? or how much of this is actual in our control? how much of this is human error? >> well, tiffany, i think all we have to do is to look at other states within our own union as well as other countries. we've been able to successfully drive down cases in states such as my own state here in massachusetts and new york. what we now know is that public health measures like wearing of the masks, like physical

distancing, make a huge impact. there was a study in health affairs about a week and a half ago that showed a state that put those mandates into place, saw entire percentage decreases in their case transmission. i think what it takes is, you know, us realizing that a little bit of this -- we're celebrating july the 4th. there's a bob dylan quote that says "a hero to me is someone that realizes a degree of responsibility that goes along with this freedom." we have put into place speed limits, we have put into place restaurant safety measures. we've asked people, up, to not call fire in a theater. we do things to keep each other safe. and the finding of the fact that ms. guilfole is positive is a perfect example of why gatherings such as the one yesterday where people are crammed together and not following close physical distancing or wearing masks continue to be a high-risk event for americans. >> so congressman gallego, i want to turn to you. arizona has seen a spike in these cases and is considered a hot spot now. why is that, one, and two,

what's happening there to get this virus under control? >> well, the reason it's happening here is because we have a governor and a state government that feels more responsible to bringing up and propping up donald trump's re-election numbers than they do to care about the public health problem. fact is, the governor here reopened arizona before we even had 14 days straight decline in coronavirus infection rates. and meantime, while we were shut down, he did not set up contact tracing. and suddenly reopened two days before donald trump came here to do a campaign rally. so the problem we have here is obviously it's a dangerous, you know, virus. we also have some dangerous governors that basically care more about, you know, the health of the -- public health of the president, whether he's going to get relength elect -- re-elected or not than the health of the citizens. that's what's happening now. unfortunately, the best we can do now because we sustain thursday weeks' long lack of leadership is for us just to

hold on. we are only now at 9% icu bed capacity. that doesn't include staffing it, minds you. we're starting to start building surge tents to deal with the lack of beds potentially. luckily some democratic mayor s put on mask mandates, but the whole scene does not have the mask mandate. the next two weeks are going to be rough. it didn't have to be this way. we had a lack of leadership. lack of courage. and unfortunately, the people that are going to hurt the most are people in my district, the working class people, the essential workers, forced to go out without any masks and without any social distancing just to make a living. >> yeah. i think that's part of the problem with people i've spoken to, some of the reporting i've been following. there is no centralized response plan. not the federal level or even at the state level. so i want to turn to you, david geolo jolly, because somehow in this bizzaro world we're navigating, masks have become a political statement. one that has been grossly

rebuffed by the maga crowd. why is that? this is your former party. how did this happen -- look, i think there are a lot of people in the country who might feel like, yeah, okay, if the maga crowd doesn't want to wear a mask, who cares? but it is not just protecting themselves. not wearing a mask helps it spread more rapidly especially when it disproportionately affects black and brown communities. how did masks being political? >> because of a complete and utter failure of political leadership. donald trump is somebody who let it become political and encouraged it at times the way he humiliated, for instance, a reporter on the south lawn of the white house during a press conference. he had the opportunity to lead us in public safety and chose not to. and we're seeing it from governors, as well. i know congressman gallego was referring to arizona. we lack the leadership in tallahassee, florida, as well, from our governor. as a result, in our home county and the tampa bay area, now more than half of the hospitals are

at maximum icu capacity. and they are ignoring the public health risk for their own political purposes. they want to create this false narrative going into november that it's not really a concern. but i would suggest instead of looking through a partisan lens, democrats and republicans, we look at it through a constitutional lens and a cultural lens. and constitutionally, this is more than just a liberty issue. it's also a public safety issue. to the doctor's points, it is a legitimate purpose of the government to protect both liberty and public safety. we do it vehicle use, we do it with code enforcement for electiontricians and -- electricians and public health, we can do it when it comes to masks. culturally i would say this confirms i think people's worst concerns and fears about american culture, the selfishness, the self-centeredness, the short-mindedness. and donald trump likes to play into this cool man attitude, that it's cool not to wear a mask. not wearing a mask doesn't make

you cool, it makes you a carrier. it's disgusting, and it's irresponsible. and you should stop it. >> congressman, i want to go back to you quickly. a lot of your colleagues in congress have started wearing masks, they've spoken out about wearing masks and the benefits. but that still has not seemed to penetrate the white house. do you anticipate, even vice president mike pence is wearing a mask now, do you anticipate that that will change? because honestly, all donald trump has to do is say, hey, guys, wear a mask, and this cult-like following that he's accrued will wear a mask. do you think that will ever happen, and will republicans in congress ever hold him to account for this? >> republicans in congress are never going to hold him to account. they're deathly afraid of him. we've seen this, the man allowed somewhat to put bounties on troops in afghanistan, and they're hardly lifting a finger to hold him accountable. when it comes to masks, no. will we one day see the president put a mask on? probably. but he won't do it because he wants to save the lives of

millions of americans. he won't do it because he wants to, you know, be a leader, he'll do it because it's the only way that he might get re-elected that he shows a little, a modicum of sympathy and empathy for the american public. that's the only reason of sympa the public. that's the only reason, and that's a very sad statement. it's a very sad statement. for hundreds of years, we've had presidents that have put themselves above the country. they've done whatever they could to save this country, whatever they need to do to sacrifice for this country, not for their own political gain or profit. and this is a dangerous situation. and i disagree with my fellow old representative jolley, good guy. i miss you. you know can we're not a greedy country. we're not a selfish country. we have a selfish president who people are taking cues from. >> really quickly, we're out of time. but before we go, dr. bhadelia, a lot of people are frustrated. they've been in the house for months and it's july 4th weekend. and maybe some people are gathering, even if it's with

immediate family. but just give us some guidance. what should americans be doing this weekend? >> tiffany, we have, you know, a lot more information than we did in march and april. and what we know is that this disease transmits when there are a lot of people clustered together in the indoor setting without any masks on. so, anything that puts you in a place like that. so, in large indoor parties, you know, restaurants, bars are really high risk. but you can still have, as you said, gatherings in your backyard with a very small group of people, socially distant, or physically distant, i should say, socially close, and wearing masks. and you know, you can still keep yourself safe in that scenario. if you do end up having those situations, if you still have those backyard barbecues, make sure, if you can, to bring your own food and to not share common objects with other folks who are not part of your household. and that's another way to sort of decrease chances of transmission. but please, go out there, enjoy the good weather. do it in small groups. wear a mask. keep that distance.

and wash your hands. >> yes. and maybe not hold rallies in south dakota. >> but all right. i digress. congressman jolley, congressman gallego and dr. nahid bhadelia. good panel. before break, take a look at this fourth of july video from former vice president joe biden. >> our country was founded on an idea. we hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal. we never lived up to it. jefferson himself didn't. he held slaves. women were excluded. but once proposed, it was an idea that couldn't be constrained. it survived the ravages of the civil war, the dogs of bull connor, the assassination of martin luther king and more than 200 years of systemic racism. just weeks ago, the murder of george floyd. through it all, these words have gnawed at our conscience and pulled us towards justice. american history's no fairytale.

it's been a constant push and pull between the two parts of our character, the idea that all men and women, all people are created equal, and the racism that has torn us apart. we have a chance now to give the marginalized, the demonized, the isolated, the oppressed a full share of the american dream. we have a chance to rip the roots of systemic racism out of this country. we have a chance to live up to the words that have founded this nation. this independence day, let's not just celebrate the words. let's celebrate that promise. commit to work, the work we must do to fulfill that promise, remain locked in the battle for the soul of this nation. but believe me, truly, it's a battle we can and we will win, if we act together. happy fourth. ppy fourth i didn't realize how special

it would be for me to discover all of these things that i found through ancestry. i discovered my great aunt ruth signed up as a nursing cadet for world war ii. you see this scanned-in, handwritten document. the most striking detail is her age. she was only 17. knowing that she saw this thing happening and was brave enough to get involved and do something- that was eye opening. find an honor your ancestors who served in world war ii.

their stories live on at ancestry. c'mon pizza's here. whoa! is that shaq? this is my new pizza the shaq-a-roni and it's bigger than pizza because for every shaq-a-roni sold, $1 is donated to the papa john's foundation for building community. there's not been anything like this, record-setting. it was just put out that the

united states economy added almost 5 million jobs in the month of june. today's announcement proves that our economy is roaring back. it's coming back extremely strong. >> welcome back to "a.m. joy." i'm tiffany cross in for joy reed. a stronger-than-expected jobs report has donald trump once again hanging his hat on the economy. and his drive to stick it to critics and the media, he tweeted a video montage, including our rachel maddow, predicting a weak jobs report. nearly 5 million americans getting back to work is most definitely good news. but as the lincoln project reminded the president on twitter, that's like dropping $20 on the floor and then picking it up again. the fact of the matter is, tens of millions of americans lost their job during the pandemic. this is the worst since the great depression. nearly 50 million of them were fortunate enough to file for unemployment benefits, although the extra $600 some of them have

been receiving every week will end at the end of this month. senate democrats are now fighting to get an extension for the enhanced unemployment benefits, but mitch mcconnell and team have already declared that idea dead on arrival. do you know who's not worried about paying their rent or making ends meet with no job or having to shut down a small business for good? wall street. u.s. stocks just posted their best quarter in more than 20 years. let's talk about that and more. joining me now, gilani cobb, analyst and staff writer for "the new yorker," and a visiting scholar at nyu and author of "winners take all: the eathlete charade of the changing world." i love your book. bishop william barber, my longtime friend, co-carom of the poor people's campaign and author of "we are called to be a movement." another very timely book. thank you, guests, for being here. gilani, i'm going to go straight

to you. one thing i find interesting about the labor stats that get reported -- until recently, they mostly reflected white america. again, just now, they've started reflecting the ethnic breakdown of some of these numbers. so, if you could talk us through what the job reports really means and what is the economic outlook look like for the black and brown communities across this country? >> so, i mean, i think we have to start from where we were a few months ago. and you know, the conversation that you heard then, the case that was being made from the trump campaign, the trump administration was that this was the lowest unemployment that african-americans had seen in decades. and he went on and went on and went on about that. but just like everything with the pandemic, where the pandemic exacerbated fault lines that were already there, if you could pay attention enough to see them, what they didn't say in that was that black unemployment could have a historic low and still be about 33% higher than

white unemployment. and so, what you've seen is simply that disparity being magnified. so now we're talking about unemployment that is about 50% higher. and so, in the best of times, that gap shrinks down to about a third higher, we often see black unemployment as much as double what white unemployment is, particularly in particular categories. and so, that's not shocking. that's not news to anyone who's actually been paying attention to this, but it is kind of pointing to something that is much more difficult to hide now. >> so, anan, i want to turn to you. i found an interesting tweet you send this week, where you essentially said, "the people who led us into any mess will not lead us out of on." so, clearly, you have no confidence in this administration to lead us out of these poor economic numbers. what does this look like? so, let's say a democrat gets in the white house in november, what does economic recovery look like when we're still battling a

global pandemic and still dealing with the fallout of covid-19? >> well, first of all, the word recovery means kind of going back to where you were before, and i don't think anybody, except oligarchs, can afford to go back to where america was before, because america wasn't working for most people before the pandemic either. you know, on this july 4th and all july 4ths, if you want to understand what's happening in the economy, look at what's happening on race, right? so, mt. rushmore yesterday, the president is engaging in this age-old game, which is selling white people the hooch of supremacy in the hope of getting them drunk so they don't notice that he is stealing their stuff and the stuff of black people and the stuff of all people, except oligarchs, who are doing the stealing. and what we've seen is a rhetoric of recovery, of paycheck protection, of this and that, masking the reality that in this crisis, as often happens

in crises, the powerful have rushed in to comman deer the benefits of crisis. we saw it as ruth chryst, as you reported, got the paycheck protection money. we see it now with black lives matter and a bunch of companies in america putting on, frankly, corporate black face, while refusing to pay black people more, hire more black people, actually change any of the tax avoidance they do that hurts marginalized people disproportionately. and we see it in the return to the economic reinvention committees of eric schmitt, bill gates, billionaires being brought in to reinvent the pl t politicratic america that's left us so vulnerable as a host to this virus. >> let me turn to you, reverend barber. i understand you don't think democrats are doing enough either to combat the economic fallout of covid-19. say more. >> well, i don't think that -- the poor people's campaign, over 7 million people joined our

assembly a few weeks ago to say that this nation, this nation has to move away from this neoliberal concept and start looking at how we address 140 million people living in poverty. it's not a matter of democrats or republicans. all of us have to do that. if you listen to our political debates, you don't hear the word poverty. i wish even as we were talking about in the midst of what must be done on july 4th, it's race and poverty. it's not is it race or it's race and poverty. we must talk about reconstruction. when trump gives this lie, it's the very reason 168 clergy are saying that -- like frederick douglass did 168 years ago -- we must expose the hypocrisy. we have 40% of poor people who made $40,000 and under will lose their jobs in the midst of this pandemic. millions more will become poor on top of the already 140 million poor. we have still not provided essential workers the essentials that they need -- living wages,

sick leave, decent unemployment, rent protection, ensuring that their utilities can't be cut off. these are the realities. so, you can talk about, as you said, you know, a few jobs he's claiming that have been recovered, but the economy is far from recovered. and there were people in trouble before the pandemic. 700 people were dying a day before the pandemic. and what trump has done and his allie allies, mcconnell, has engaged in, an unholy rebellion religious history against god-ordained justice and has fundamentally undermined voter protection, policies to lift up the poor. he undermines health care. he undermines immigrant justice. and we must transform from that. and i agree with my friend, it's not about going back to normal. normal was already struggle. we must go to reconstruction, a third reconstruction in this nation. >> strong words from bishop

barber. i'm going to go back to you, jela think, because as bishop barber just highlighted, this pandemic just punctuated the inequality that a lot of communities of color have known for a long time. so, to his point, i mean, he's really talking about, it's not just race, but it is race and the economics of it. so, there are a lot of disenfranchised white people in this country as well. however, i think when you look at the political landscape, some people in that community tend to be maga voters. so, how do you carry that message to people who may be, you know, class poor, but don't necessarily identify to communities of color? >> sure. well, first off, i'll say one thing, which is that i swore to myself a long time ago i was never going to speak after reverend barber again. and yet, here i am -- >> always a mistake. >> -- making another futile attempt to say something insightful after he's pretty much wrapped up the whole thing. but i will say this.

i think that there is a real need to look at the populism of what donald trump said he would do in 2016 and where we are in 2020. and some of this is explicitly racial. and reverend barber is right, some of this is about class exploitation and people becoming cognizant of that. and so, especially -- the best person to talk to about this is actually reverend barber and what they've been doing with the poor people's movement and how people have been organizing across the country to create a kind of counter populism. we've seen this in american history. it's not simply george wallace as the legacy of populism, but henry wallace, who was the progressive populist who brought in people of color, who wanted to fight against racism, who saw the mutual concerns between poor black people and poor white people and poor people of color in different backgrounds. and so, i think that that is a legacy and tradition that we fall back upon in this time. >> ian, i want to turn to you,

because i know in your book, you poke at these billionaires and declare that there really shouldn't be billionaires. but given that there are billionaires in this country, some have certainly tried to address the problem. robert smith has tried to help small black businesses across the country. is there anything that the extremely wealthy could and should be doing in this time period? >> advocating for the dismantling of their politicratic privilege. if they are interested in lobbying for a wealth tax, lobbying for anticorruption legislation, lobbying for the bailouts that actually serve poor people and communities of color and not big corporations, i would welcome them. but i think we can't only hold rich people and republicans accountable. we have to speak for a moment about democrats, because we're not just in this kind of weak recovery because of republicans. there has been a -- we are in at least five crises right now, right? there's a health crisis, racial

crisis, economic crisis, democratic, rule-of-law crisis, and a climate crisis. and this is an opportunity, as fdr recognized, for really bold action, right? the rest of this conversation we've had today is a little bit depressing, but let's make it actually exciting for a second. this is the kind of moment in history when you can change things. history shows that. and you have republicans who just clearly don't want to do that, want to help they are friends. but do you really have in joe biden, in chuck schumer in the senate, in nancy pelosi in the house, do you have a bold, dramatic, inspiring, goosebumps-giving vision? i'm not saying you're going to be able to pass it in the senate, but do you have it? do you have this being prepared? do you have people committing to big ideas that maybe they weren't for earlier in their career? maybe they were, as biden was, for employer-based health care, but maybe they now realize that's a crazy idea, given pandemic. and do you have them reversing themselves? you know, this -- america's hungry for relief, as the

reverend was saying, but it's also hungry for fundamental change right now. and i don't think milquetoast is going to feed america's belly. >> all right. i want to get back to bishop barber, but first i don't want to make either of you follow bishop barber again, so i will ask you, jelani, first, we have a new slate of progressive candidates who have won their primarie primaries, jamaal bowman, richie torres. with these people coming in with this more progressive outlook on the economy, you know, joining folks like the squad in congress, do you think our legislative landscape will start to look different and speak to more grassroots people, authentically so? not a tag line in a campaign stump speech, but an authentic effort to re-imagine america and put people who are living below the poverty line on more equal footing? >> yes. and i say that guidedly -- guardedly, because i think that there are other things that are at play as well, which is, you

know, still lots of moderates. the democratic party is still dominated by its moderate wing. and you know, progressives are going to need the seniority and the connections to actually maneuver to make things happen. you know, one of the things i think is the best example of this, connecting it to the fourth of july, is the freedom of information act, which is a very important piece of legislation that requires the government to tell you what you're doing. journalists use it. it's the most fundamental tool that journalists use when we're trying to get documents. and that document was signed into law on the fourth of july by lyndon b. johnson. but the legislator who was peat moss -- excuse me, john moss, who was behind it -- it took him a decade in congress. he ran for congress because he thought there needed to be a freedom of information act. and it took him ten years to get the political clout to be able to navigate that through

congress and get that to lyndon b. johnson's desk. so, i think that it's possible, but we should be aware that this is a protracted struggle. >> that flia. i know it well as a fellow journalist. bishop barber, i will turn to you. i hate to put you on the spot, but i have to tell you, i know a lot of people who are struggling this fourth of july weekend and a lot of people who feel like there's a lot of political talk. and things are -- they're acceptable in the masses when you hear them as statistics, but when you hear the humanity of some of the stories that people are struggling with, if you could, what word would you offer people who don't know what tomorrow brings, who don't know if they'll be able to pay their rent or mortgage in july, who don't know if they're going to be able to feed their children? what would you say to the people who are mired in this time of struggle right now? >> well, what i would say to them is what we've said. people like my dear friend, pamela rush, who actually just died yesterday from covid. >> oh, i'm sorry.

>> but what she said is we need to be a part of this movement. she joined the poor people's campaign movement. she said, we need to bring together black people and white people and brown people and red people and people of every race, color, creed and sexuality. we have the power. for instance, in the southern state, there's 75 million poor and low-wealth people. 23 million of them did not vote. but they offered them a talk to, as my friend said politically. we need to have a vision that invites them in. we need to be about the business of saying we are making the wrong choices. frederick douglass years ago, in the middle of all the problems with slavery, said every attempt to blot out our progress must only embolden our agitation. it is a time for an emboldened agitati agitation. we can have an economy that pays a living wage. we can have health care for underinsured and uninsured. we can cut out our military budget so we can put that money in infrastructure and development. we can clean up our climate.

the problem is not what we can do. the problem is not scarcity of resources. it's scarcity of will. and it's time now for people who have their backs against the wall to say, i've got my backs against the wall, i have no health insurance, but -- [ inaudible ] >> all right. i think we're losing bishop barber's audio there, but thank you, bishop barber. it's not scarcity of resources but scarcity of will. words to close the segment out on beautifully. thank you, jelani cobb, bishop william barber. that was like coffee at an algonquin roundtable. thank you very much for that. coming up, police brutality has never been more evident, but there is a part of that story that deserves more attention. in true "a.m. joy" fashion, that's going to happen right here. stay tuned. that's going to happt here stay tuned who has time for wrinkles? neutrogena® rapid wrinkle repair®. we've got the retinol that gives you results in one week. not just any retinol.

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the people. that changes today. this is a first, yet significant, step to save lives, especially black lives. the latino community has also suffered from police brutality. carlos lopez are the latest to be killed. and 40 years ago in san antonio, hector santos coy was killed by a police officer who had also killed a black man, bobby joe phillips, in 1968. the cases we see on video are only a fraction of the misconduct and abuse that occurs every day. >> texas congressman joaquin castro underscores the debilitating impact police violence has had on both the black and latinx communities. the movement to end police violence has been overwhelmingly diverse as protesters take a stand against the killings of unarmed black americans and violence against all communities of color. the native american community has also been disproportionately impacted by police killings. data shows while only making up

0.8% of the population, native americans account for 1.9% of police killings. they are also more than three times more likely to be killed by police than whites. one of my next guests is representing the family of stone child chiefstick, a native american man who was fatally shot and killed by police in july of last year. giasi ross joins me, podcast co-host of "break-dances with wolves" and my pal, maria teresa kumar, president and ceo of voddo latino. giasi, i'm going it start with you, because this case that you're representing is quite striking. can you tell our viewers the top lines of this case? >> yeah. thank you very much for shining light on this case and on native people who have been the victim of police violence. interestingly and tragically, last night commemorated the one-year anniversary of the police officer taking stonechild

chiefstick, also known as stoney, taking his life, july 3rd, 2019. he's a father of five children. and now there's a lot of questions regarding, you know, there's a bunch of -- there's kids that don't have their dad. and it came down to a ten-second interval of time wherein this man may or may not have needed services, but certainly didn't need a response with a gun by a militarized and armed police force that, you know, he was doing nothing dangerous, nothing inherently violent, nothing like that. and it happens way too often within our communities. it's almost always, tiffany, invisible. it's almost always forgotten about and reduced to, even if it gets a story in a newspaper -- it usually doesn't -- but if it does, it's just a small, little line that is, you know, grouped along with a bunch of other

anonymous people. so, thank you so much for shedding light on this topic broadly and the life of stonechild chiefstick, who was a person and was very important to our community. >> so, i just want to highlight as well, i think it's interesting with the native lens of this case. there are a lot of native american women who go missing, disproportionate to the rest of society. so, it's interesting that native americans are overpoliced in the sense of being on the receiving end of violence, but underpoliced in terms of solving crime. have you witnessed anything like that? and what are your thoughts on that unfortunate disproportionate number? >> yeah. definitely. i mean, we get the, you know, short schriff, short end of the stick in both regards. we are simultaneously, somehow, overpoliced, overkilled, overexecuted, overimprisoned, overenforced by law enforcement, but yet, underprotected in every

single regard. and of course, we talked about this before, the hallmark of racism against native people is not the fact that we're killed by law enforcement at such a high rate or that we're suspended and expelled from schools at such a high rate or we're the victims of violent crime at such a high rate, but the hallmark of native american racism, racism against native people, is that nobody knows any of those things. we do it in aminity in the light of day. >> i could not agree with you more. maria teresa kumar, i want to turn to you on this. this is a story line i'm very interested in, because i do believe that the latinx community does not get enough attention around issues of police brutality. something i find interesting. the stop-and-frisk policy that was so well known here in new york was well known because it was happening in the tri-state. but really, people all across this country know that stop-and-frisk exists everywhere, even if it does not have a name, and it

disproportionately impacts black and brown men. that doesn't exclude women who are impacted by this. but the highest number is black men. and then second behind that is latino men who are needlessly ensnared in different cases with law enforcement. this doesn't get a lot of attention. so, tell us what can be done about this. and people watching this and who have been in solidarity with black lives matter, how do we make the conversation inclusive and how do we address this issue? >> tiffany, first of all, it's great to see you in the chair. i think that it's important to have this conversation, because what happens oftentimes, as your other guest was sharing, is that the media has decided what stories to cover. who owns what issue. and when we talk about immigration, it's only the latino community, even though we know that there's plenty of our allies who are also undocumented of african countries who are also asian and so on and so forth. and when it comes to the issue of police brutality, it's very much centered around the african-american community, but it's because, sadly, the

african-american community is disproportionately impacted. but when you start looking at data, you see the latino community shortly right there behind it. sadly, even after the george floyd deaths, we actually have seen several cases of young latino men killed on the, you know, at the hands of police. most recently, we had andres guardado, who had taken up another job. he was 18 years old. his parents had lost their jobs during the pandemic, and so, he took on another job as a security guard at an auto shop. and someone called the police, and the next thing we know, he was killed. we don't have all the details because they had turned off their body cameras. we don't know all the details because they had destroyed all of the video surveillance equipment inside that auto body shop, but we knew it was unjust. and the more that we have these conversations in solidarity with the african-american community, we know that if we address the issues, the legislation that joaquin castro was speaking so broadly of, of the george floyd changes in policing act that now sits at the foot of mitch

mcconnell, our communities, the latino community, the native american community, we will be better protected. and so, oftentimes, we hear these ideas that it's just an epidemic across the country, sadly, for communities of color, and if you're poor, even more. and so, the more we can have these conversations that, yes, it occurs in the native american community, yes, it occurs in the latino community, but it disproportionately impacts the african-american community, then we rise and we speak voice to it, and we encourage everyone to talk about these issues that are at the hands of police. >> yeah. this could be an hour-long special, to be quite honest. >> it should be. it should be. >> seriously. seriously. i'll talk to an executive producer around here. but unfortunately, we are out of time for this segment. and look, i just want to let our viewers know, i understand there's a unique history with african-americans and law enforcement in this country, but systems of white supremacy cast a dark shadow over a lot of communities of color. and i think the more we highlight these issues with some of our allies and brethren, the better it is. so, i thank you both for having a wonderful and robust

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maxwell was among epstein's closest associates and helped to exploit girls who were as young as 14 years old. maxwell played a critical role in helping epstein to identify, befriend, and groom minor victims for abuse. in some cases, maxwell participated in the abuse herself. >> okay, if you thought the jeffrey epstein case was over after his apparent suicide at his jail cell last year, think again. you'll remember that epstein was a disgraced financier and convicted sex offender who socialized with powerful men, like prince andrew, bill clinton, and donald trump. on thursday, his longtime associate, ghislaine maxwell, was arrested and charged for

allegedly helping epstein recruit, groom, and sexually abuse girls as young as 14 years old. she has denied any wrongdoing. the here's what the district attorney from new york had to say about it. >> maxwell and epstein had a meth method. typically, they would befriend these young girls by asking them questions about their lives, pretending to be taking an interest in them. they would take them to the movies and treat them to shopping trips. maxwell would encourage these young girls to accept offers from epstein to pay for their travel and their education, making these young victims feel indebted to jeffrey epstein. after developing a rapport with the victims, maxwell then tried to normalize sexual abuse with a minor victim. >> and joining me now are our sisters in law, maya wiley,

professor at the new school and nbc legal analyst, barbara mcquade, former u.s. attorney and msnbc contributor, and joyce vance, also a former u.s. attorney and also an msnbc contributor. ladies, first, i love the all-female panel. but i will say, starting out, i used to be a field producer for "america's most wanted." and my beat was covering missing and exploited children. so i'm going to go to you, maya, on this, and ask you, if you could, how important is the role of the person who's the enabler, the person who is recruiting these young girls? in my experience, that person was integral to abuse cases when i was a journalist covering these type of cases. so, what say you on that? >> yeah, you're absolutely right, tiffany. this person, the person who plays the role that ghislaine maxwell's accused of playing, is a predator, is just as culpable as jeffrey epstein or anyone else who sexually assaults

anybody. the reason it's so critical to have a person play the role maxwell is accused of is because it's a manipulation game. we have 300,000 young people in this country estimated to be sex trafficked domestically. and what that means is finding young kids, male and female -- we shouldn't pretend that it's just girls here in this country are vulnerable, who need help, who young women sdad vdisadvantaged in many dif ways. and what the role maxwell played was to play on their need, get them to trust. and being a woman who does that is particularly important. because if you're a vulnerable, young woman, you're more likely to let your guard down and believe that the person who is offering you help means it. so, her role is pivotal in

enabling, essentially, the victimization of a lot of young women and girls, and it happens all over the country. one of the things that's so important about this arrest is that predators who are powerful too often go unpunished. >> so, something i found interesting, reporting coming out of the "tampa bay times" highlighted that this case is actually being handled by the office of public corruption unit. so, i want to ask you, barbara, what does that say about the scope of this investigation? does that link to anyone in the current administration? is it possible that labor secretary alexander acosta is entangled in this? break it down for those of us who don't necessarily know the inner workings of the southern district. >> yeah, it's a really interesting detail, tiffany, of the press release that was put out by the southern district of new york. this is also true when the case was originally just against

jeffrey epstein, that the public corruption unit is involved. that's a unit that has specialized training and expertise to deal with public officials who get charged. there are a lot of nuanced issues that arise when public officials are involved. and so, it says to me that this case at least touches in some way public officials. now, as you've said, we know that alex acosta had some involvement with this. we don't know that he is a subject or a target of the investigation. but his involvement in negotiating that sweetheart plea deal a number of years ago with jeffrey epstein could be a reason. we also know that prince andrew has been implicated as recently as last month. geoffrey berman, the former u.s. attorney recently ousted, was demanding an opportunity to talk with him. and prince andrew was dodging that request to be interviewed. it may be that he is only a witness and not a subject or a target, but this, no doubt, touches some people who have positions of power, and that could explain why the

involvement of the public corruption unit, or could be others as yet unknown. i think four names i'd be looking at immediately are not public officials, but enablers, as maya was talking about, who look at the non prosecution agreement that was negotiated with the southern district of florida back in 2008. you'll see the names of four individuals that jeffrey epstein specifically wanted to protect. those are very likely to be people who were enablers, recruiters. i'd want to get to the bottom of their role. and i think that this case is not done being charged yet. >> i want to turn to you, joyce. barbara brought up berman and his bankrupt firing. do you see any connection here with the dismissal of berman and the epstein case? >> so, tiffany, i think it's very hard to know. we know that the attorney general pulled a late friday night effort to usher berman out the door, unceremoniously, in the southern district of new york, and that didn't work.

it became public when berman refused to go along. and instead of having the attorney general's political appointee in place, we ended up with a woman who was already in the office, a career employee, a career prosecutor, who will, hopefully, be playing things straight up. so, it's difficult to make any sort of a direct political line there. what we do know is that this is the classic type of an indictment that looks like prosecutors aren't done. it looks like they're headed in further direction. and that's something that there could perhaps be powerful people who are interested in shutting off. when i say it's a classic indictment, what i mean is this indictment comes in six counts. and there's a first count that's a conspiracy count. and the maximum penalty there is five years. but there are also substantive counts and conspiracy counts of enticement and transportation of minors. and those counts actually range from ten years to lifetime

sentences. and so, as ms. maxwell is forced to confront the potential charges she's looking at, does she want to go to prison for the rest of her life? or is she willing to cooperate and become a witness and look at lesser charges, perhaps that five-year sentence? that, i think, will give some powerful people some reason to sleep poorly. >> all right. and maya, i'm going to go back to you. what do you think that ghislaine maxwell will do? do you anticipate that she might snitch, as they say? >> you know, it's hard to know. we're looking at a case, as both barbara and joyce have said, where there are powerful people connected to maxwell and epstein. there's the mysterious death of jeffrey epstein that has still raised questions in people's mind. and you know, i think the question becomes, where do you feel more vulnerable? do you feel more vulnerable from law enforcement, or do you feel

more vulnerable in other ways? we don't really know. we're not going to know. but the one thing we do know and i think is important to remember, is this isn't over for the victims. this is only the beginning of what will be a very deeply difficult, possibly retraumatizing process that they have really bravely stood up and faced down, despite the fact that i don't think there's any illusion for them that they will have to protect themselves from further victimization in the way in which a defense will be mounted for maxwell. so, if there's any decency left all at in this woman, she will certainly spare them. >> well, quite the call from madam mayor, maya wiley -- i'm sorry, maya wiley. did you want to say anything, any announcement that you wanted to make here, maya? if not, we'll close out the segment. just asking. >> happy frederick douglass day. that's my announcement.

>> okay. thank you, maya wiley, barbara mcquade, and joyce vance. great panel. and we will stay on this story. up next, a major cultural shift in the world of sports. stay with us. l shift in the world of sports stay with us is mealtime a struggle? introducing ore-ida potato pay. where ore-ida golden crinkles are your crispy currency to pay for bites of this... ...with this. when kids won't eat dinner, potato pay them to. ore-ida. win at mealtime. from grills to play setsutdoor potato pay them to. and more one of a kind finds. it all ships free. and with new deals every day you can explore endless options at every price point. get your outdoor oasis delivered fast so you can get

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we, the national football league, admit we were wrong for not listening to nfl players earlier and encourage all to speak out and peacefully protest. we, the national football league, believe black lives matter. i personally protest with you and want to be part of the much-needed change in this country. the protests around the country are emblematic of the centuries of silence, inequality, and oppression of black players, coaches, fans, and staff. we are listening. i am listening. >> sure you are. roger goodell's sudden advantageous embrace of activism may have helped spark a seismic

shift in sports. on friday, washington, d.c.'s football team announced that it would do a thorough review of its name, which has been denounced for decades as a racial slur against indigenous people. the move comes after several corporate sponsors demanded a change, including fedex, which owns the naming rights to the field where the team plays. according to the "wall street journal," the washington football team will likely be renamed before the 2020 season begins. and just hours after that news broke, baseball's cleveland indians said the team would consider changing its name as well. joining me now, bill rhoden, a columnist for espn's "the undefeated" and author of "forty million dollar slaves" and the amazing and fabulous, my friend, jamil hill, staff writer for "the atlantic" and host of the podcast "jamil hill is unbothered" and has a new show coming up. thank you both for being here. thank you for matching me in the attire. i'm going to go to bill first on

this one. bill, i'm going to quote your column that you penned that suggests now is the time to remove washington's nfl team. you write, "our history skips over the details and tells us that the government took land away from indians but skips the gruesome details. this is why statues are toppling and confederate flags are being removed. the fight of george flied being executed in cold blood by a minnesota police officer was sickening." so, really, the persecution of black people has cast a wide net of influence in almost every industry. one thing i find interesting about this is the team owner in d.c. for a long time would come out and parade, you know, some members, indigenous people, and say, well, they don't find this racist, so it's all good. so, this white team owner was able to decide what was racist and what wasn't and found people to echo that message. i kind of think that would be like if you plucked, you know,

some black folks at a maga rally and said, well, hey, they don't mind anything the president is saying, so how can it be racist? so, what does this mean? do you really think they're going to change the name? and if so, why so long? why the resistance? if somebody says to me something i say offends them, i think i would just accommodate them and not say that thing. why do you think it took us this to get here? >> well, i think -- first of all, thank you. i didn't get to know to wear red, so. >> you look handsome as ever, sir, so you're find. >> you know, i think both jamel and i and a lot of people have been beating this drum for a long time, as you said. i just think the confluence now of -- you know, when robert e. lee goes down in richmond, virginia, everything is in play. i think nascar taking the confederate flag out, the mississippi legislature. i just think -- and trust me,

snyder probably had no -- in 2013, when he said, i'll never do it, never, he probably believed it as much as when george wallace of '63 said segregation now, segregation forever, never thinking that the alabama football team would be like 90% black. so, i think that just as you did that great segment before, this is a highlight on just wealthy people taking advantage of privilege, never thinking that the swell of morality will force their hand. i just think that's, you know, snyder finds himself in front of this firing squad of morality. and one thing i say, i'll end by saying, though, is great about pepsico and all that. but i think, in our industry, our industry, you know, the espn, who i work for, "the new york times," cbs, nbc, they also have to make a commitment that we're done. we're not using this word

anymore. that's where the commitment has to come from. otherwise, all this stuff -- we've heard the is talking, you know, everybody is trying to get as many black folks in their corporation to -- what do you feel? what do you think? how do you feel about this, you know, so are they going to do it? we'll see. that's my operative word, we'll see. >> we'll see indeed. jamil, you know i stand for you on twitter and i think you have the most amazing and dignified clap backs of all time and when they go low, you go high but still manage to get that clap back in. i want to talk to you about this whole plan the nfl will play the black national anthem before every game. so first, i want to know do you know the second verse, the big question in the community that people want to know and, second, you addressed it on twitter and said, this is essentially crumbs they're offering so talk us through your opinion on that. >> first of all, let me say what

a rousing start to what is it renamed on your show happy frederick douglass day and bill rhoden and congratulations on hosting the show today. look, apologies to all the hbcu grads that came who just all tell me we know the second verse. i know. don't ago like i'm the only black person that when lift every voice came on that second verse we're like, hmm, hmm. i'm not the only person. y'all not going to make me feel bad. hbcu grads, i understand. at any rate this, gets back to what i think is kind of a problem across the board i'm saying not just from the nfl but various brands and sponsor, people trying to figure out ways to get involved. black people, we have been fighting for -- fighting against, rather, systemic oppression, fighting against

institutional racism and fighting to get a seat at the table and lead the table at times and, you know at the nfl, a perfect example of kind of misreading the room and understanding like these little placating gestures aren't going to work. you have a league that is 70% to 80% black and you've never had a majority plaque owner. i'm worried about that. i'm not worried what you sing or don't sing before the games. that's not to say i'm not appreciate tiffere of the black national anthem and what it stands for. you know what i abetter gesture would be, getting colin kaepernick back into the league. that would be a much better gesture. seems like the nfl wants to do everything but correct the systemic issues this their own league so i worry that people start getting too focused on gestures, getting focused on turning things from master bedroom into primary bedroom and getting focused on those things and not the real issue which is

addressing the systemic failures within our country. >> sticking on that we saw this week the ladies of the wnba came out, maya moore is steeped in criminal justice issues and helped a man leave prison after being wrongly convicted after serving over 20 years in jail and i do -- you know, i talked to you earlier and said i'm not a big follower of sports but i do think the women's voices have somewhat been left out of this conversation and i applaud the women in the wnba who are stepping out front at the height of their career. where do they fit in this conversation? some of the women athletes, i mean, we've seen megan rapinoe in soccer out front. where do you think their role is in addressing some of these issues? >> well, they should be out in the front, frankly because we forget this is that before colin kaepernick ever started his protest, the minnesota lynx, they were the one who began their own resistance in this issue because they wore t-shirts and openly discuss what had

happened to philando castile because it happened in their city. if maya was a man frankly it would be the top sports story or would be on the level of what we've seen colin kaepernick and the attention he's drawn. this is a woman who was one of the most if not the most decorated basketball players of all time. a four-time wnba champion, a o two-time ncaa champion and finals mvp, a regular season mvp. she has won a tongue of awards. she gave all that up to help one man secure his freedom. this is unprecedented and so maya deserves a lot of respect and a lot of women who have been the leaders in this in the fight against institutional racism cannot be erased and deserve to be recognized as many of the men have. >> i have less than ten seconds left. you didn't get the wardrobe memo so i'll give you the last word. >> oh, thanks. your thoughts on the role of

women -- women athletes in the social justice time period. >> so powerful. i guys are right. i love maya moore and, you know, you say she was a male athlete -- well, she wouldn't do it. you know, she wouldn't do it, you know. i mean everybody talks a good game but what -- from maya, the lynx, you know, she actually did something to give up your career, i'm sorry, i hit my thing but to give up your career, to give up your career and that's what i love about the women's soccer players. >> we're out of time. i'm so sorry. thank you both. look, this is another segment that could be an hour but out of time. i'm on a hard out. thanks for joining me. that's it, guys. that's our show for today. i will be back tomorrow at 10:00 a.m. for cross talk but now it's alex witt. ' believe me♪ ♪go straight till the morning look like we♪ ♪won't wait♪ ♪we're taking everything we wanted♪ ♪we can do it

♪all strength, no sweat

hey there, everyone. good day from msnbc headquarters. high noon in the east. happy independence day to everyone. welcome to weekends with alex witt as well. hitting the beach for the holiday as one state shatters a record with more than 11,000 cases in a day. will america's birthday be a super spreader event? live reports from around the country. put the damn mask on. i can't say it more forcefully. >> take it seriously. i mean you're take it back to your parents, grandparents that could potentially get it.

>> the white house strategy for the virus that has some doctors flummoxed. plus, a tale of two candidates, new leadership messages on this fourth of july. >> angry mobs are trying to tear down statues of our founders. >> we have a chance to live up to the words that have founded this nation. >> let's go to the breaking news out of florida. with startling new coronavirus numbers setting yet another record for a single day high as the state, residents are celebrating a different fourth of july. joining me from sanford, florida, chris pallone. good morning to you. now it's noon officially but talk about the new numbers. what are you seeing in sanford? >> yeah, hi there, alex. florida reported its new numbers just within the last hour and shattered the previous record for positivees