tv Dateline MSNBC July 5, 2020 2:00am-3:00am PDT
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at holy cross cemetery where she is surrounded by her ancestors. sandra, so homesick when away from this island she loved. now forever a part of it. >> that's all for this edition of "dateline." i'm natalmorales. thank you for watching. i am craig melvin. >> i'm natalie morales. >> this is "dateline." it sucks the life out of you. your dream life isn't going to happen. that wedding you're planning, you don't get to have it. evil exists. >> evil dwells in people. >> it was a night like this, just before halloween. a killing that still haunts.
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>> just lying there. couldn't feel a pulse. >> the young dad engaged to be married dead on the ground. >> they determined that it was a murder. >> here's what made this mystery so chilling. possible suspects were all in costume. >> the cowboy and the penguin, everybody is dressed as somebody else. how are you going to be able to identify people? >> cowboy, penguin, costumed killer. sounds like something ripped from the pages of stephen king. but in this case, the horror was real. >> we had this piece of a costume, we didn't know what it was. >> a halloween crime that will send shivers down your spine. >> i was terrified. something had happened. i didn't know what. hello. welcome to "dateline." just days before halloween, joel lovelien and his fiancee,
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heather eastling headed to a local bar with party-goers. the night took a horrific turn when joel stepped outside and walked into a troubling mystery. in a case filled with unknown, one thing was certain. a man was dead. police rounded up several potential suspects but here's josh mankiewicz with under a halloween moon. >> it's the one time when everyone pretends to be someone else. when being two-faced is part of the deal. >> there's a feeling that maybe the rules don't apply. and that during those moonlit hours, we all have license to eat, drink and be scary. >> halloween morphed from our
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national sugar -- to alan alcohol party. nowhere is that more true than in north dakota. several lives would collide under that halloween moon. at least one person may have used a costume to try and hide his true identity, a murderer. that weekend before halloween here in grand forks, heather eastling and her boyfriend, joel lovelien, were putting on costumes getting ready to go out. >> night with friend. >> he's dressed up as a hockey fan wearing his favorite green jersey. >> dressed in a mechanic's outfit. a friend of mine texted me and said meet us at the broken drum. >> half casino, half bar. heather and joel had a lot to celebrate. she had just moved here from texas after dating long distance. it was nearly love at first
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sight. >> how long did you go out with joel before you realized this is the guy? >> a week. >> that's it? >> yeah. he was taken back when i told him, i'm going to marry you. that's what's going to happen here. he wasn't really ready for me to say something like that to him. but i was ready to say something like that. that's how sure i was. >> but joel, a divorced guy who loved golf, fishing at his friend's would soon be ready for marriage too. just ten months after they met, this smart hospital computer i.t. tech proposed to this 31-year-old elementary school teacher. >> he proposed on a dance floor in front of about 200 texas dance hall two-steppers. >> they were to be married the following year. but that evening inside the broken drum, they were completely unprepared for the most frightening night of their lives. it all started when a bus packed with party-goers arrived at the bar.
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heather watched as they started piling into the broken drum. the partiers were mostly well-oiled 20-somethings on an all-night pub crawl and they were fueled by an estimated 325 jell-o shots that were on board that bus. heather and joel were suddenly in the midst of people in halloween costumes as this security video shows, there was a clown with a bright rainbow-colored head of hair. there was also a cowboy, a hunter, a lion, a gang sta and a woman who went as paris hilton. joel, in his green hockey jersey was enjoying a rare cigar and playing blackjack next to a man dressed as a penguin. >> how was the night going? >> fine. at one point he had to take a call. but it was too loud inside so he had gone outside to take the call. >> while joel was outside on the phone, the party bus was getting ready to go on to the next bar.
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suddenly someone from that bus needed help. >> joel said somebody was left by the bus. i'm going to check on him. he kissed me and went outside. >> within a few minutes, someone came running in yelling to call 911. >> 911 emergency. >> we've got an emergency at the broken drum. >> the 911 call wasn't for the person joel went to help. >> went to the back door and found -- [ inaudible ] joel was laying there with blood all over the cement near his head. >> could you tell what had happened? >> no. no. >> heather says when she got outside, she didn't see the party bus or any of the people in costumes. but joel, the good samaritan who had gone to help a stranger, had himself been the victim of a savage beating.
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>> i remember hearing the ambulances coming and the cops coming. the sirens. >> joel lovelien was rushed to an e.r. in the same hospital where he worked as a computer tech. >> the doctors came in and told me they did everything they could. but that joel was gone. >> 800 miles away in montana, joel's mom and stepfather received the most terrible news parents can hear. >> you raise your children and the things you do to protect them and somebody in one minute takes his life. like you've stolen my child. >> joel just 38 left behind not only his family and fiancee but a daughter, alexa, from his first marriage. >> you hear there's an accident. you think that it's something that can be fixed. i went to a hospital thinking
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he's not dead. >> later, joel's step dad learned more about the horrible details. >> grand forks police department called us, they determined that it was a murder. >> who would want to hurt him? >> i don't know. i don't know anybody who had that much hate in their heart to commit a crime like that. >> this is just, what, bad luck being in the parking lot at the wrong time? >> yeah. >> trying to help the wrong person? >> yeah. evil exists. evil dwells in people and it comes out and things like this happen. >> what evil had killed joel lovelien? for grand forks police, the answer lays somewhere on a long list of potential suspects. and maybe one of them had left a calling card. something found at the scene. a bloody piece of a halloween costume. police thought it might be the
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key to unmasking a killer. coming up -- a case playing out like a deadly real-life game of clues. the roundup of those possible suspects begins. the penguin, the cowboy and the clown. when "dateline" continues. i wanted more from my copd medicine, that's why i've got the power of 1,2,3 medicines with trelegy. the only fda-approved, once-daily 3 in 1 copd treatment. ♪ with trelegy and the power of 1, 2, 3, i'm breathing better. trelegy works 3 ways to open airways, keep them open, and reduce inflammation for 24 hours of better breathing. trelegy won't replace a rescue inhaler for sudden breathing problems.
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joel outside the broken drum bar in a fight that apparently no one witnessed. and joel's fiancee heather was trying just as hard to understand what had happened to the man she loved. >> inconceivable that he picked a fight with somebody else. >> of course, totally inconceivable. he's not a fighter. >> what would he do if somebody would want to fight with him? >> he would back away and use logic. he didn't feed into anger. >> joel was so badly beaten that the coroner could feel and hear the broken bones in his face when she touched it. the cause of death? joel choked on his own blood. it was now up to police to find the killer or killers of joel lovelien in grand forks, a city that averages about one murder a year. the chief of police. >> this is probably one of the more challenging cases that we've ever had because of alcohol involved.
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large crowds. people in costume. >> the night of joel's murder, police interviewed about 80 people still left at the broken drum: here's what they heard. the party bus went downtown after it left the broken drum and police heard descriptions of costumed people last seen near joel or that bus. a clown, a cowboy, a penguin, a gangsta and a construction worker. while searching for people in costume, sounds comical. it helped police identify some persons of interest. if they could locate them before they took off the costumes. got to find the penguin and the joker, got to find them pretty quick. >> pretty quick. >> there's an interesting piece of evidence left behind at the murder scene. they thought it was a bird's foot from someone's costume and it had blood on it. grand forks police sergeant at the time, bill mackey. >> could be the penguin. >> at that point, we didn't know
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how the foot played into it or not. >> was it webbed? >> i can't recall if it was webbed or not. >> but the thinking was, this came from, if not the actual person who had done the beating, at least somebody there during the fight? >> yeah. absolutely. that was the thinking. >> police swarmed downtown grand forks and at another bar they found one of the costumed characters they were looking for. >> that same night we found the clown. >> the clown was crying? >> yes. >> that made us wonder, why is this guy crying? >> the tears of a clown. it made police suspicious. one officer reported the clown's hands were shaking. from the cold or from something else? >> october 28th, 2007. >> by the time the clown was brought to the police station, he had dried his tears. but he was not cooperative.
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>> what's the big deal? someone is dead. i heard there's a fight. the clown said he had nothing to do with any murder and was crying because of a domestic argument. >> he explained to us he had a bad argument with his girlfriend. not clear and convincing to us. >> police say the clown asked for a lawyer. >> not a lot -- i want an attorney now. >> but police just let him go. >> you got the clown who is crying, who is belligerent and asks for a lawyer. one of the things that could say to me is, maybe i saw something terrible happen, i saw someone get beaten to death. that didn't strike you as anything other than he was upset and probably drunk. >> yes.
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it's a challenge. one has to determine whether the tears are of remorse, whether they're tears of fear or maybe they had onions for lunch. >> that same night, police found the cowboy. but the cowboy gave police a fake name, a fake birthday and became physically aggressive. misplaced him in handcuffs even though he wasn't arrested. >> what did the cowboy say? >> the cowboy is very difficult to deal with. he wants really nothing to do with us. doesn't want to cooperate with us. >> there is no record of his interview. but the investigators say the cowboy asked an interesting question. if the victim was wearing a green shirt. the initials und on it. who was wearing a university of north dakota sweatshirt that night. >> joel lovelien. at face value --
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>> police also let the cowboy go. soon after, they got the break they needed. the owner of that bird's foot would come forward. police believed it would lead them straight to the murderer. >> coming up -- >> the new witness offers to help the police. how much help would he be? >> more than he realized. when "dateline" continues. $9.95 at my age? $9.95? no way. $9.95? that's impossible. hi, i'm jonathan, a manager here at colonial penn life insurance company, to tell you it is possible. if you're age 50 to 85, you can get life insurance with options starting at just $9.95 a month. okay, jonathan, i'm listening. tell me more. just $9.95 a month
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he is dressed as a pen kbin. someone dressed as the joker from batman. someone wearing just a yellow-colored sweatshirt with a hood. >> those investigators, including veteran detective were scratching their heads over what appeared to be a bloody claw from a bird costume that was found near joel lovelien's body. >> looking for somebody in what 90% of a bird costume. >> we didn't know what it was. >> all we knew is we had this piece of a costume. >> detectives invited the guys on the party bus to come boack o
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police headquarters the following day and this time saying a different tune. one that seemed to get them all off the hook. they said they didn't see the murder but told of a fight outside the broken drum earlier that evening between one of their pahls dressed as a hunter and a guy in an odd costume with a yellow sweatshirt who had also been on the bus. because of that fight, they told the guy in the yellow outfit he couldn't get back on the bus and then they drove downtown to another bar. the now sober and cooperative cowboy told detectives that he last saw joel lovelien alive and well. >> the guy talking to the guy in the yellow sweatshirt. >> the unhappy harlequin explained that his clown tears were about a flashback were triggered about when he heard about joel lovelien's death.
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>> i thought about it. that could have been me, you know. >> the guy wearing that yellow costume was waking up. his name was travis stay. a 23-year-old nursing student at the university of north dakota. today he was nursing the mother of all hangovers because he had had so much to drink at the bars the previous bars that he slept away most of the next day. when he awoke, one of his friends shared some worrisome news. >> one of my roommates had seen that they were looking for a guy in a yellow sweatshirt. so i went down to the police station. >> bring your attorney with you? >> no. i had nothing to hide. >> so two days after joel lovelien's death, travis sat down across from grand forks detectives. >> looking for a man with a yellow hooded sweatshirt. >> when he described his lion
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costume, detective's antenna went up. he realized it wasn't a bloody bird foot next to his body. a lion's paw and travis confirmed it. >> i had a yellow hooded sweatshirt on. i had some paws. >> the cops became more suspicious when they noticed the injury to travis' face and asked how he got them. >> travis explained he had been punched out by the hunter in the parking lot of the broken drum. >> the detective noticed some scrapes on travis' hands. >> what's the cuts here from? >> where is your costume now? >> my costume, we threw it away. >> why did you throw it away? >> i was looking at him, i saw what appeared to be a blood drop on his shoe. >> the detective pounced on that new lead. >> would we be able to take your shoes? >> take them? >> he gave the cops everything they asked for. including a dna sample and
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permission to search his apartment where his lion costume was still in the trash. >> to get a search warrant. >> i knew i didn't have anything to do with it. >> but investigators were suspicious. in part, because travis said he couldn't remember anything from the time he was punched until the time he got into a cab more than an hour later. and on the cops' timeline, that was the time when joel lovelien was killed. >> said you were going to check -- that was the last time you seen him. found in the parking lot. >> we don't know. want to eliminate you. that's why we appreciate you coming in. >> what kind of murderer not only keeps the bloody clothing that they were wearing during the murder but actually wears some of it into the
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smart. and there's plenty of them. >> the cops let travis go home, but they weren't buying his story. he was now a definite person of interest. two days later, they had more questions for him. this time around the questions were more pointed about just what happened while travis was in a blackout. >> where were you? it's very important that you remember this, travis. >> i do not know -- >> i can almost guarantee you, come on, you don't remember? really? >> i think they probably thought that i was conveniently drunk. >> well, it is convenient. then you walk out of the police station. >> yep. >> you think what, that's the end of it? >> i knew things at that point had taken a swing in the wrong direction. we were going to look into getting an attorney.
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>> travis stay was about to find out he'd need a lawyer sooner than he thought. coming up -- police make an arrest and the case moves into court. two distraught families, two sides of a murder case. >> screaming his name at him. >> when "dateline" continues. prt with the #1 name in flea and tick protection. frontline plus. trusted by vets for nearly 20 years. all the way out here just for a blurry photo of me. frontline plus. oh, that's a good one. wait, what's that? that's just the low-battery warning. oh, alright. now it's all, "check out my rv," and, "let's go four-wheeling." maybe there's a little part of me that wanted to be seen.
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hello. here's what's happening. in the united states, more than 2.8 million people have been infected with the coronavirus. at this hour, over 130,000 people died from the coronavirus. florida broke state records after reporting 11,000 new cases in one day. president trump targeted democrats, protesters and the media at a july 4th event on the white house lawn. in the speech, trump singled out the radical left, marksist and the anarchists. now back to "dateline."
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travis stay voluntarily went to speak to police and found himself in the middle of a murder investigation. he's the man in the yellow costume police were looking for. he told them he blacked out from drinking. investigators doubted him and were about to get new evidence that they thought would bring the details. here is josh mankiewicz under a halloween moon. in the month after her fian fiance's murder, heather eastling's pain was beyond words. >> it sucks the life out of you and tells you your life isn't what you wanted it to be. your dream life isn't going to happen. >> grand forks detectives were working around the clock to solve this rare murder case. and then those dna tests of
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travis' lion costume came back. some of that blood on travis was his own. but some of it belonged to joel lovelien. and with that, police had everything they needed. and then one morning -- >> there was a knock on the door and there was the detective. and detective simon. they came in and said that there was bad news and that joel's blood was on me. and they were arresting me for his murder. >> a nervous travis was arraigned to jail via closed-circuit tv. in anguish and misery is evident in his. >> hi travis. it's going to be okay. it's going to be okay. >> i don't know. >> i know this is difficult for you, trav. >> it would get even tougher. a little more than a year after
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his arrest, travis found himself on trial for murder facing the rest of his life behind bars. prosecutor nancion laid out the state's case. >> joel lovelien -- >> a jury would decide travis' fate. >> travis brutally beat joel lovelien while he was down on the ground and did not seek help for him afterwards. left the scene allowing mr. lovelien to choke to death on his own blood. >> jurors heard joel's fiance heather as she relived it. >> screaming his name at him. he didn't say anything, he didn't do anything. >> he was the last person that we believe was seen with mr. lovelien. >> grand forks detectives thought they had given the prosecutors an open and shut case with overwhelming physical evidence. >> when we looked at travis'
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clothes, it was covered in blood and post importantly, none of the other costumes matched the paw that was left behind at the crime scene. >> we tested four different areas of travis stay's sweatshirt. three out of four samples tested positive for joel lovelien's blood. >> and prosecutors argued they could prove travis was there with joel lovelien prior to the murder. their eyewitnesses, the guy who had been so sloshed and uncooperative the night of the murder. the hunter. the gangster and the cowboy from the party bus. bryce larson, the cowboy took the stand and told a story both his friends would echo. >> mr. larson, did you ever witness the murder of joel lovelien? no. >> did you ever see him assaulted in the broken drum parking lot? >> no. >> when you left that parking lot where was he? >> talking to the guy in the
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yellow. >> the guy wearing the cheesy yellow lion costume? >> he was sitting at the defense table. >> prosecutors laid out the timeline using the security video from the broken drum. there's travis in his lion costume. which by this point is a little more than a yellow hoodie. moments later, he's gone outside. >> joel lovelien wearing his green hockey jersey can be seen heading out a little later. never to return. the tape, prosecutors said, proved travis was in the parking lot when joel was killed. and according to the state's witnesses from the bus, it was impossible for any of the other party-goers to have attacked joel because their party bus was gone by the time of the murder. >> the bus was not at the broken drum when joel lovelien was murdered. >> the prosecution argued that joel's last words to his fiancee heather supported that timeline. >> he made comments to his
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girlfriend, some guy missed his bus, i was out there helping him and then he went back out. >> the guy who missed the bus, he told the jury, was the defendant. >> that is a -- >> the state used travis' own words against him. >> they played every frame of those police interviews in which travis claimed not to remember the most critical part of that alcohol-sodden night. >> you don't remember the time you got hit until the time you got -- >> jurors heard testimony that later that night travis was in another fight. >> after mr. lovelien was killed, travis stay left the broken drum on foot, walked to a location in the alleyway where he confronted another individual. >> travis threw a punch at that man and missed. he then got into a cab and went home. if prosecutors were to be believed, the defendant was a halloween nightmare come to life. just add alcohol and nurse
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travis turns into a drunk and dangerous mr. hyde. that theory helped them explain to jurors how the slightly built travis was able to take down and kill the much larger joel with his bare hands. police also say the fact that joel had had a few drinks made it easier for travis. >> he was drunk. so the fact that a little guy comes at him is unsuspecting and he's unstable because he's intoxicated, too, makes perfect sense that he could drop him. >> aspirational -- >> eight days into the trial, the prosecution calls its final witness. a blood spatter analyst. >> this is a possible position. >> who used photos to demonstrate that joel's blood on travis' clothing was consistent with travis standing over joel while beating him. >> travis was either standing right next to joel lovelien or straddling joel lovelien as he
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was punching him in his face. >> the prosecution's evidence was stacking up against travis stay. no question he had been in a fight with the hunter before joel was killed. no question he had taken a swing at someone else afterwards and now he'd have to explain why there were traces of joel's blood on his costume, which travis was either unable tore unwilling to do because of his suspiciously convenient amnesia. coming up -- >> could someone else be behind this? >> you think other people are covering up their own involvement in this? >> i do. >> when "dateline" continues. creating a coast to coast network to deliver your car as soon as tomorrow. recruiting an army of customer advocates to make your experience incredible. and putting you in control of the whole thing with powerful technology. that's why we've become the nation's fastest growing retailer. because our customers love it.
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all the evidence will show -- >> travis stay's defense team faced a difficult task. prosecutors have portrayed their client as a two-faced killer who changed personalities after he had a few drinks in him and who, in a blind rage, had mercilessly beaten joel lovelien to death. >> travis stay is not guilty. >> in the defense's opening statement, attorney peter wool told jurors this was simply impossible. >> the beaten, drunken, small,
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stumbling travis stay was not capable of inflicting the multiple brutal injuries. >> the attorney along with joe freed berg defended travis. their argument to the jury, trauf is stay was too slight and drunk to kill joel lovelien. joel, they argued was killed by the same party-goers he was trying to protect travis from. first, travis' legal team had to address the image prosecutors had crafted. was he, in fact, a cold-blooded killer prone to alcoholic rages? the prosecutor's theory, also the police theory was that travis became a different person when he was drinking. >> they made that up out of air. if they had a witness that said that was travis' history, if they could provide anecdotal
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evidence that happened twice before, a hundred times before, once before, we never saw it, we never heard it. >> they never had a witness that said that? >> no. they had nobody that even sniffed at that. they just made it up because it was clear to the jury that this was a nice young man he's sitting unprotected in front of cops for hours answering questions and willingly baring his soul to them. >> where were you? it's very important to try to remember this, travis. >> i do not remember talking to that man. >> we don't know. >> he was credible. he leaned across in the second interview and said you think it was me. >> we have to be as honest as we can about it. >> next, the defense tried to convince jurors just how improbable it was that the 5'7"
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travis could have hurt the 6'3" joel at all, let alone when he was drunk. >> when we read the autopsy and it gave the inches and pounds of the deceased. he outweighed him by 75 to 80 pounds, he was 7 or 8 inches bigger. then it began to take on kind of a different color. >> so the defense offered some suspects of its own. the first people rounded up the night of the murder. that posse of costumed guys on the bus. >> mob mentality are a remedy for tragedy. >> you think there are a lot of people covering up their own involvement? >> i think there are. >> what do you think happened? >> i think the cowboy, the gangster and the construction worker came back outside and confronted joel and i. you know, they didn't get back on the bus and leave us standing in the parking lot. i think that, you know, they
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beat us both up. >> travis stay -- >> the defense team tried to prove that. they conducted a withering cross-examination of the man who was wearing the cowboy costume that night. the cowboy admitted he had lied to police the night of the murder about not witnessing the fight between travis and the man in the hunter's costume. the defense wanted to know what else he might be lying about. >> what is it that we can look at that will help us determine when you're telling the truth? >> i don't know. >> well, if you don't know, who does? >> i don't know. >> the lawyers strategy was to hammer away at the party-goers' shifting stories. >> are you sure -- snimt under cross-examination, that crying clown who cops found weeping and said things had gotten out of hand said he didn't remember
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crying or being upset. >> were you shaken up, do you remember that? >> i don't remember that. >> as for the blood the detective noticed on travis' shoes during the initial interrogati interrogation. dna proved it was travis', not joel's. the defense introduced testimony suggesting travis might have gotten joel's blood on himself when he was trying to help joel, not hurt him. >> it's somewhat evident on the photos. >> an e.r. doctor who examined travis concluded that travis' hands would have been far more battered and scuffed if he used them to beat joel. >> do you find the injuries to mr. stay's hands consistent or inconsistent with having delivered the blows that did that damage? >> inconsistent. >> prosecutors had argued that the party bus, along with all those theoretical suspects in it
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was long gone at the time of joel's murder. but the defense countered that the broken drum security tape proved the opposite. on the tape was something important that was apparently missed. the clown. everyone agrees the clown was on the bus when it left. but here he is. still in the bar. after joel leaves. which means, as long as the clown was in the bar, the bus was still in the parking lot. >> you can see joel leave the bar? >> absolutely. >> you can see the clown leave the bar. >> no doubt. >> 3 1/2 minutes later. >> right. >> plenty of time for the people in that crowd to have confronted and attacked joel. >> we know the cowboy, the gangster, the construction worker had gotten out and the bus was still there. >> in court, the lead detective was forced to concede the police timeline was flawed.
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>> travis stay fsz looking at a real life halloween nightmare, more than 60 years in jail if he was convicted of murdering joel. juro jurors began deliberating. >> i am nervous but confident. >> joel fiancee was confident. we have the right guy. done. >> the jurors we spoke with said prosecutors presented the case as if it were open and shut. >> i would not say their style was coky at all. they were confident. they felt they had enough
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evidence. >> the jurors began deliberating, the timeline, in which the time had gone by the time joel was killed. >> the bus was there longer than the prosecution was saying. >> the clown was found crying. >> that seemed out of character for a young guy on a halloween night. >> they were concerned about what the clown told police that evening. >> it was important thatty he would say things got out of hand. >> and they questioned by only blood. >> why didn't they check anyone else, anything else besides this lion? >> it took the jury five hours
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to reach a verdict. >> we find the defendant not guilty. >> a quick verdict is a good verdict in this case. it was vindication. >> travis, what are you going to do with your life now? any reaction to the verdict? >> then the verdict came in. not guilty. >> i didn't understand that. i still don't understand that. i don't know everything. i do know that joel's blood was found on one person. >> you dewpoint think justice was done here? >> the fact that he is acquitted by jury, doesn't mean he is acquitted by me. there is was one stitch of physical evidence to suggest that anybody else was involved. >> grand forks police consider
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it was closed. and the evidence destroyed. the cowboy, gangster and construction worker all declined on-camera interview, told us on the phone, as they maintained from day one, they had nothing to do with joel's murder, and feel they have been unfairly accused by the defense. >> people talk. when you are accused of something like this i am sure it has a negative impact on your rep taking. >> even joel's parents have been divided. joel's step dad thinks travis didn't do it. travis was so tru, he couldn't hit the ground with his hat. how does he beat up a fellow that is 6'3" 6'4". >> do you think there are people
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who know more? >> yes, somebody knows something. >> joel's daughter alexa is left with memories of his dad. >> he was like my best friend. >> what do you remember? >> laughed a lot. he liked to make other people laugh. >> travis ed in law school and became a practicing attorney. he wanted to publicly apologize. >> i am sorry of being part of the equation that night. i drank too much. it was irresponsible, it was reckless. it was short-sighted. and regrettable. you know, i didn't kill joel. >> the idea behind this night at the end of october, is that all that fear, danger and horror are
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supposed to be imaginary. manufactured for the child living in each of other. there is evil out there, sadly, sometimes the horror of halloween is the real thing. >> that is all for this edig of dateline. thank you for watching. first up on msnbc, celebrating during a pandemic. trump, doubling down on divisive talk and mentioning covid. declaring a lot of progress. saying the cases are harmless. >> hospitals, near capacity. the question now, will beachings, barbecues and
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