(vo) ...especially when your easilyg distracted teenager has the car. at subaru, we're taking on distracted driving... ...with sensors that alert you when your eyes are off the road. the subaru forester. the safest forester ever. welcome to "kasie d.c." history in the making as the ...i felt i couldn't be at my... ...best for my family. nation celebrates independence in only 8 weeks with mavyret... day with one of the most ...i was cured. volatile chapters in american i faced reminders of my hep c every day. history. i'm joined by my guests to talk i worried about my hep c. but in only 8 weeks with mavyret... about our precarious national moment and john berry, author of ...i was cured. mavyret is the only 8-week cure for all types of hep c. the great influenza stops by with lessons from the past how before starting mavyret your doctor will test... we can think of the resurging of ...if you've had hepatitis b which may flare up coronavirus today. and cause serious liver problems but first, this week marks the during and after treatment. tell your doctor if you've had hepatitis b, half way point of 2020.

a liver or kidney transplant,... and already this year the american way of life has been up ...other liver problems, hiv-1, ended in more ways than we care or other medical conditions,... ...and all medicines you take. to count. and the story of these crisis don't take mavyret with atazanavir... ...or rifampin, or if you've had certain liver problems. and president trump's response to them can be told through a if you've had or have serious liver problems hand full of remarkable images. other than hep c, there's a rare chance they may worsen. we have seen people waiting in signs of serious liver problems may include long lines to be tested for yellowing of the skin, abdominal pain or swelling, confusion, coronavirus. and unexplained bleeding or bruising. and a picture of the president tell your doctor walking off marine one after a if you develop symptoms of liver disease. rally in tulsa, oklahoma looking common side effects include headache and tiredness. defeated after addressing a with hep c behind me, i feel free... crowd that was far smaller than ...fearless... ...because i am cured. if you can't afford your medicine, expected and also this one of abbvie may be able to help. him holding this upside down outside of st. john's church after police figured out peaceful protests. across from the white house that as images of demonstration spark by the police involved deaths of black americans continued to cross the nation and add to that images of confederate statutes being defaced or torn down.

it feels almost as though we have lived through a decade of history in just the past six moments. and this independence day weekend, america is a country that is divided, a country that's angry, a country that's on edge and according to a vast majority of americans surveyed in new polls, it's a country that's not moving in the right direction and not moving towards becoming a more perfect union. with that i'd like to welcome my panel, presidential historian of vanderbilt university and msnbc did you know liberty mutual customizes your car insurance ta-da! if you can't afford your medicine, contributor john muchecham and so you only pay for what you need? also chairman of princeton i should get a quote. center for african american do it. studies and msnbc contributor. only pay for what you need. ♪ liberty. liberty. liberty. liberty. ♪ he's the author of "begin again" james baldwin's america. thank you so much, gentlemen, for coming on the program on this independence day weekend

and john, let me start with you with a broad historical picture. i couldn't help but thinking sitting down tonight that independence day is typically a time we celebrate the country and everything that it's achievements meant when a country was originally founded we have spent much of the all the ways in which it was evening talking about the past. different, a new political the editor of the cook political experiment. report points out since trump this year we're grappling were took office in 2017, 48% of much with the original sin of house republicans have retired, slavery when the country was founded and also with an incredible test of leadership and questions about whether this resigned, lost or retiring in 2020. the lesson he says is there is president is seeding the role no going back to a gop before that america played in the world president trump. perhaps since the foundings but joining me now are two veteran republican strategists looking certainly since the end of the second world war. ahead to the future of their where do you see things right party with some uncertainty. now in your historical sweep? the former rnc communications director and aid on the 2016 campaign jeb and romney for campaign and michael steele, the former press secretary for john boehner and also, a former

senior advisor on the jeb >> that's a good december scribe. how you celebrate depends who exclamation point exclamation you are. so many were excluded by the continental congress on this date in 1776 that all men were created equal and by their creator with certain inailble rights. we didn't act as though. woman member like johned a d ad rejected his wife's advice. the story of the country has been one in which the meaning of the definition is expanded but that is at it's best the story republican party? of the country. so many colleagues, people that

the fourth of july should always be celebrate d with a sense of i've had on the phone, now humility this is what jefferson you're looking to elect joe and lincoln and regan and biden. not the majority but a various formulations refer to as significant handful. what is the future for the party, in your view? the last best hope of man on >> i think president trump, earth. hope is the keyword. hope isn't necessarily reality. there will never be another donald trump. i think where we are is in for going forward if you take trump out of the agenda he pushed for all the external and ambient leaving aside his competence unhappiness and disappoint, more issues, his tweeting, his demeanor and look at the economic record prior to the americans today, more white pandemic, tax reform, americans, more folks that look deregulation, border security -- like me are more aware than we not the wall but border security were last fourth of july than in general, these are popular the injustices that have to be positions, these are things republicans in the future can addressed to create a more f build on, do smarter and secure a very solid electoral majority. perfect union. that's not can't. that's not a homily. >> mr. fuhrman, do you agree that's not a fireworks speech, with that assessment, or do you it's the reality of history that we are imperfect and have to do think it's a bit more dire than the best we can to bring the that? >> no, i don't think it's dire. promise of the country from the i remember vividly after the

2004 election, the picture of a ideas to the reasons. dead donkey on "time" magazine, the elephant, the dead donkey, these things i think are very much cyclical. >> what's your view of that i think also the party of the eddie? are we in a position to take more steps towards the progress president in power is shaped for that john described or do you however long they are in office by the leader of the party. we had the bush republicans, now feel as though the rest of this year is more bleak than that? the trump republicans, who knows what comes after. one thing i do worry about for >> well, you know, i think it's the next four years, you're uncertain. starting to see republicans i we are in an infection point and talk to get a little worried as choices have to be made. john and i basically agree on the campaign has progressed. it's almost like a band with a the frame, we come at it from smash single, one-hit wonder and they are struggling to write a follow-up album. the trump campaign over the different angles. i inhabit the spaces excluded. months has struggled to come up with a clean message, clean some think about the fourth of action items. that's what worries republicans july with two historical context. the fourth of july wasn't a not just for the next four holiday for everyone obviously. months to make sure they can be in fact, the fourth became a

there, senators who are up in the fall for the next four national holiday, it was the day years. >> to that point, michael, it the national columnization seems like increasingly there's society used money to ship a lot of concern republicans are former slaves and black people out of the country, ironies of going to lose the senate. having covered them day in and all ironies, yes? day out for the last three there is the other moment that years, they made this bet there was no way they could win comes to mind, frederick re-election if their republican base turned on them because the president was sending tweets. douglas' 1852 address what is to if the president was aggrieved the slaves the fourth of july? we could talk about the content about what they were doing, republicans in their home state of that historic speech where he were going to be aggrieved about whatever it was they were doing. he lights that and in with this now they find themselves in an absolutely impossible bind of now i've got strategists on the hopeful red rick abo phone telling me, individualize themselves and run on their own hopeful rhetoric about the possibilities of the country. we can think about the 1850s two accomplishments, not on the years after the passage after president's but none of them the fugitive slave act in 1850 seem to have a brand strong enough or independent enough that national ieized the questi from the president to actually be able to pull that off? of slavery any run away slave, >> i think some might. cory gardner, s us -- susan made the government responsible. the federal government responsible for retrieving that lost property and so there is collins, a lot have the ability always this contradiction at the to do that but it's going to be

heart of the country, kasie and hard. in 2016 you saw a lot of we're experiencing this right republican senators able to run now. ahead of trump, portman in ohio, and the question for us and john has asked it beautifully in his marco rubio, pat toomey. own work and makes the point i think right now, the question is by running on their own record, what will we do in the face of that contradiction or those their own accomplishments at a time when trump didn't have a record and there was no record of people supporting trump. contradictions now? there is no guarantee we'll make it's going to be possible, a lot the best choice. more difficult now that they have got four years of we have some promising supporting the president and ignoring those problematic tweets on a weekly basis as you developments but we will see what we will do. know all too well. >> that is going to be the trick >> eddie, i mean, what are the steps we need to take to try and for 3 1/2 years of this. matt gorman, what do you think continue to walk on the correct fast forward to election day or direction on a path to being a the day after election day and there's a result in the better country for, you know, everyone that we live among and selection. for justice for all? could something go president trump's way? you're seeing him lay the >> you know, i think it requires groundwork for mail-in voting, fraud, a question about the a kind of honesty about who we outcome. what are republicans do you have been, what we've done and think prepared to do if, in fact, it is abundantly clear joe

who we aspire to be. biden won the election and purchase seems to refuse to you know, we are often times acknowledge it. >> that's a good question. kind of caught, kasie as dr. beats me. king would say or as he said, a i guess short of escorting him out themselves. maybe once he leaves the white poisonous stock of lies and part of what we have to do is tell house -- once somehow he leaves the truth about the kind of in whatever form, that's when i society we have built and what think it gets interesting for we aspire to be as a nation. me. if president trump loses, he's not going to be like bush or and to do that together where obama or almost any other president where they go silently black people and women and into the night. native people, all americans can he's going to be omnipresent. think of the country as theirs, short of starting his own cable news channel, which he might do, not as late comers or as recipients of it he'll be on cable news, live what can we do? first, we have to tell the tweeting, responding in truth. realtime, and that's if he that becomes the ground for doesn't run. reckonciliation and the basis fr i can guarantee you there's serial news cycle of him teasing repair. we have to build the country another run for the presidency. that is just, not just, you and you're going to have -- he has 90% approval in the know, not about perfect union, republican party. he won't have that. we have to work for more a more maybe 25 to 30 will be still just society and john would he loses, that's when ent

agree with me, that's what we actually mean when we say a more perfect union. the fun begins in my head. >> john, let's talk for a second about -- i'm sorry, go ahead. >> an interesting way to define the word fun, matt dporman, >> well, i think eddie is michael steele, thank you both exactly right. where it begins, where the very much for being here tonight. i really appreciate it. that is going to do it for us. reconciliation begins in my tradition is with the confession join me next weekend, back to of sin. our normal hours, 7:00 to 9:00 you actually say that i have eastern. get the latest breaking news by followed too much of the desires listening to "msnbc live" on of my own heart and what tune in. americans who look like me have to do is acknowledge that for go to tune-in.com to listen more than 250 years, we have followed the devices and desires of our own hearts at the expense commercial-free for a premium. of the hearts of all. good night from washington. erci. good night from washington all while professing hypocrii hi cannily we were doing it for everyone. what dr. king called us to do is to actually bring the idea into the realm of real. you can go back and look and watch the march on washington

speech which in many ways is modern america, the moment in which dr. king became a modern founding pafather, not just him. there was sacrifice and blood and toil and sacrifice that led i'm a performer. into that moment, he talks about -always have been. -and always will be. the decoloration, of never letting anything get in my way. independence and my country not the doubts, because of the sweet land of liberty. distractions, whose country is it? or voice in my head. my country. what we have to do in the and certainly not arthritis. country is find a way to conduct new voltaren provides powerful arthritis pain relief ourselves one toward another so to help me keep moving. that people of all kinds of and it can help you too. u:!(áávand the best definition feel the joy of movement of a nation i've ever run across with voltaren. and even the princeton guides feel the joy saturpain happens. probably appreciate this is from aleve it. st. augusta, he said that the -- aleve is proven stronger and longer on pain than tylenol. i don't want to pull the -- princeton is basically a when pain happens, aleve it. all day strong. presbyterian institution. they don't like to talk about it

much anymore but it is. it takes the fun out of it. augusta finding a nation as a multitude of rational beings united by the common objects of their love. wonderful definition. multitude of rational beings by the common object of their love. so it means we have to be reasonable, rational, follow data, we have to believe the evidence of our eyes but we have to be united what we love in common and i ded deally what we (burke) at farmers, we know a thing or twe've seen a thing or two. like how nice it is to save on your auto policy. should love in common is but it's even nicer knowing that if this happens... opportunity, justice before the law, the premises of reason, the ...or this happens... effectiveness of grace. ...or this.... that's what this country should be about. ...or this... it's not but the part of the work of america, the project of ...or even this... america is to try. ...we've seen and covered it. so, switch to farmers and you could save an average >> i've spent a lot of time i of three hundred ninety-five dollars. would say thinking about that idea of grace and how we get get a quote today. back to that after such a ♪ we are farmers. bum-pa-dum, bum-bum-bum-bum ♪ difficult year and it does seem

that we mentioned this at the iredefined the wordng th'school' this year. time that many americans seem to it's why, at xfinity, we're committed to helping kids keep learning through the summer. be saying this direction that we've been going in this year and help college students studying at home isn't the way we want to do and stay connected through our university program. we're providing affordable internet access there are a lot of reasonables f to low income families through our internet essentials program. for that, the coronavirus, the tragic killing of george floyd and other black americans but and this summer, xfinity is creating a virtual summer camp the fact that people seem to recognize that that is not a for kids at home- all on xfinity x1. direction that we want to go in, people seem to be looking for we're committed to helping all families stay connected. some unity gives me a little learn more at xfinity.com/education. hope that maybe we can start to at least keep or turn ourselves back into the right direction, i would say. john, eddie, thank you both so much for your time and happy fourth of july. president trump meanwhile says coronavirus will quote just disappear. that is an actual quote from this week. coming up, what the 1918 flu pandemic can teach us about the dire consequences of a hands off approach to a health crisis. "kasie d.c." back after this d.s

this sunday, a growing pandemic. >> we can't be under any illusion tha this sunday, a growing pandemic. >> we can't be under any illusion that this virus is going to go away on its own. >> more than 50,000 new cases a day. >> i would not be surprised if we go up to 100,000 a day if this does not turn around. >> states shutting down, reversing or delaying i'm a performer. -always have been. -and always will be. reopenings. never letting anything get in my way. >> we've gone through hell. not the doubts, distractions, or voice in my head. the last thing we want to do is go through hell again. and certainly not arthritis. >> president trump says the virus is being handled. >> i think that at some point new voltaren provides powerful arthritis pain relief that's going to sort of just disappear, i hope. >> and focuses instead on the culture wars. >> they are determined to tear down every statue, symbol and to help me keep moving. memory of our n and it can help you too. feel the joy of movement with voltaren.

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. with more than 130,000 americans dead and well over 2 million infected with coronavirus, it's hard not to be concerned about what is likely second wave might bring considering we're not even out of the first one yet. so, we looked to the last great global pandemic from 1918 and one of the big take aways was about leadership, quote those in authority must retain the public's trust. the way to do that is to distort nothing, to put the best phase on nothing to try to manipulate

no one. that was written at the end of the 2005 book "the great influenza" the story of the deadliest pandemic in history. joining me now is the man that wrote that book john before rry. he's a professor at tulane school of public health and tropical medicine. mr. berry, thank you for coming on the program tonight and i'd like to start just by getting your take on what we've seen about how our leaders have been handling the coronavirus pandemic thus far. we reopened many of our states. we are now seeing incredibly difficult spikes in cases, hospitalizations in some of the states that opened up earliest, quite frankly, and now our leaders are trying to grapple with a country that quite frankly doesn't have much of an appetite to shut down again. what do you see in how this has played out that you think could be informed by lessons about our past and dealing with these

kinds of crisis? >> the question really is whether it's too late to have much impact. the way to do this is be candid with the public about what was happeni happening. layout the likelihood this would be a long war, nothing would be over in a period of months. probably the biggest difference or one of the biggest differences between the 1918 virus and this virus is question of the duration and incubation, you're sick longer, you shed virus longer stretches everything out. if the public was prepared properly at the beginning both in terms of social distancing, hand washing, the message coming out of the top and if they were prepared psychologically for the fact that this was going to have

a very long duration we would be in a much, much better situation. that's not the case so what do we now do to get control of this thing again? >> i think one of the things too that struck me it was more than yes it became a political issue but started as advice we were getting from public health officials, the surgeon general tweeted back on february 29th seriously people, stop buying masks and, you know, i think we understand why he did that. it was because this was a shortage for health care providers and the health care providers needed access for that but spent a lot of time who wanted to do the right thing the right thing was in fact not to wear a mask and sort of had to backtrack on that. how much damage do you think that did and the other thing i'm curious about is whether mask

wearing was a political issue in 1918, as well? >> it became an issue in 1918. but not a partisan political issue. people got tired of it. what resistance developed is when a city came out of their version of a lockdown, lifted mask orders, many of them mandated them and tried to reimpose you really got resistance and in terms of the mixed messaging that came out in the early days of this pandemic, that didn't help. science doesn't move in a straight line. people learn things and changes their position. that's part of what happened. the data on masks before this pandemic was actually pretty mixed.

we always knew they were helpful protecting people who are well from those who are sick. they knew that in 1918 and ran scientific experiments. the question of how effective protecting someone who is well is a mixed bag of data on that and this pandemic seems like they are useful for that. >> which i think is important for a lot of people to remember while yes, the message that you're protecting others is very clear you do to yourself some benefit that seems to be kind of the emerging science. before i let you go here, we know former president george w. bush read your book around the time it came out and it was

sufficiently nerve wracking for him he set in motion policy changes aimed at preventing global pandemics. what's your advice to our lawmakers in congress, what areas where our government has fallen down we need to focus on fixing once we're finally on the other side of this thing? >> infrastructure and i appreciate the credit of my book for bush to act. let's face it, there was a serious threat from a new potential pandemic virus, h 5 n 1 that afwas a real mover. it was a concrete threat but public health infrastructure has deteriorated and there is no significant investment and that

would be the number one thing. >> the book is "the great influenza" thank you for your time today. appreciate it. when we continue, according to the brookings institution the president seen more turnover of high level staffers so far than any other president in the last 40 years. and lest say a ft's say a few o things to get off their chest. that's up next. t off their ches. that's up next

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why does the president keep hiring people that are dumb at a rock, way over their head and incomp incompetent? >> the president hires based on counter viewing points. i asked about the hiring of john bolton in particular. he said i like to counter balance my opinion with individuals that often times have the very opposite of my opinion. he likes to have a team of rivals like in president lincoln's administration. >> the president's constant criticism of advisors that leave on bad terms is tough to square with his blej once upon a time to hire the best people.

joining me is a politzer prize winning presidential historian and best seller "leadership in turbulent times." an honor to have you on our independence day program. i'm so interested in your reflections and kind of your sense of this moment in history that we are now living through and as we look back on how we've weathered crisis in the past as a country and to think about the turbulence that you write about in your book, i think one thing a lot of us are struggling with is just how open ended this is. we have no idea how long this crisis is going to last. what is your view of this moment in this historical context? >> in someways, the triple crisis we're facing between the

pandemic and economic fallout and search for racial injustice is a leader we're hoping to have the ability and skills and temperament to mobilize all the national resources to provide national direction and to bring the country together. i mean, in those other times of crisis, when i think about the depression in world war ii, what mattered and the reason it worked was that fdr understood that he had to do action, he had to move. i mean, hoover had not been able to change his ideology about the fact that the federal government should not be involved in local and state governments as the country went further and further into the depression. every now and then hoover would say there is an uptick in the economy and stock market. we'll be all right. to deny the realities of the moment when you're a leader in crisis is one of the real problems because the ground will catch up with you. and then what fdr does, he's a governor in new york and it left to the governors to take action as it has here, as well and he starts the first unemployment

insurance. we never had that before. he starts public works jobs. he takes responsibility for dealing with the crisis and that catapults him. when he runs, hoover has to defend he had not done what he should. let get together, work as a team like a war and he produced the action that made that happen and suddenly, this is headlines. we have a leader finally, a government, collective action and the collective action of a nation as a whole working together is the central key to dealing with any of these crisis, much less a triple crisis. >> you know, that's so interesting partly because, you know, we focus so much on fda as president, the new deal, the programs that he implemented once he was in office but i find this point about his campaign and why he won this campaign against hoover fascinating. sounds to me like you're essentially lining one sitting president who tried to pass the buck up against someone who came

in and argued no, we need national leadership and i feel as though the parallels between president trump and his approach to coronavirus in particular and joe biden are ine ined crepeble >> president trump had the thought he had the power to decide when economies could open again and made this comment saying this will be the hardest decision i've ever made. i hope to god i get it right. it went to the governors but instead of supporting the governors in a national strategy in where we wear masks and social distancing to come out of this together, it became a decisive issue. i talked to a friend of mine the other day, she has an 80-year-old mother and her mother wouldn't wear a mask and she's been fighting with her why? the president doesn't want me to and said i'll look like a democrat if i wear a mask.

the idea the things we needed to do of social distancing, mobilizing resources of wearing masks as a national inspirational strategy might have put us in a different place now than we were then is really heartbreaking in someways. >> that's a really strong point and we have even seen the president lunch towards it as everyone is urged to put a mask on to get the economy back to where we need to be. you've written about qualities of leadership. i'm curious what you see in president trump's ability to learn from or adjust to a crisis especially one that is as big for his political future as coronavirus seems to be. do you see in him a leader that is capable from learning from the first six months of 2020 and adjusting in time for the november election?

>> well, i mean, we keep waiting for that to happen but i think the qualities necessary are threefold. one, you need humility. you have to acknowledge that you don't know everything and you'll make mistakes and you have to acre knowledge mistakes. people go with you when you do that. when j.f.k. acknowledged, his poor larty went up. and you have to have a critical quality. people are suffering and feel pain. they need the leaders to somehow absorb and ambition itself makes people into leadership in the beginning for the god of all for the country. lincoln was running in 1964 for he election, he was told by republican leaders in august of '64, you will never win this election. there was so many deaths. the north was frustrated with

the wars as was the south. you got to call a peace conference together on the basis of restoring the unions, not emancipation because that's prolonging the war and they said oth otherwise you'll lose the electi election. e sa he said i would be dammed if i returned black warriors to slavery. they thought he would never win. as it turns out, the battle of atlanta happened and the mood of the north changed but he won the twin goals of e man passion ama. your election has to be ditied the good of the country or it will make everything worse. >> such an important lesson for this weekend. thank you so much for coming on the show. i really appreciate it. >> thank you, kasie. glad to be here at this time. >> thanks again. when we continue from conservative icons to liberal

hero? chief justice john robert s has some democrats cheering, republicans fuming and animating evangelicals. who better to discuss the fascinating dynamic with another big day of decisions expected tomorrow than our own pete williams. he joins me next. williams he joins me next sure. okay... okay! safe drivers save 40%!!! guys! guys! check it out. safe drivers save 40%!!! safe drivers save 40%! safe drivers save 40%!!! that's safe drivers save 40%. it is, that's safe drivers save 40%. - he's right there. - it's him! he's here. he's right here. - hi! - hi. hey! - that's totally him. - it's him! that's totally the guy. safe drivers do save 40%. click or call for a quote today.

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welcome back. it's been a big year for roberts. he's at the center of remarkable decisions over the past couple weeks siding with the liberal wing of the court in a series of high profile cases including the daca program and an abortion case out of louisiana. this confounded president trump and this isn't the first time. last year he voted with liberals shouting down efforts to add a citizen ship question to the census, still despite frustration during the first eight major decisions, roberts sided with the conservative block six times. now decisions are expected tomorrow. joining me is pete williams. great to see down. i had to say this -- the personality the man, john roberts, the most fascinating

story of the modern court and it's so hard in so many ways to get a measure of these justices as people because they are such -- they are more mysterious figures than politicians i deal with on capitol hill who are as you know usually not adverse to coming and speaking of the microphones. how would you a plaexplain what gone on in the ark of his career on the highest bench? >> the thing to remember about john roberts, he's a consecutive. some rulings have disappointed conservative fans and he's certainly the key vote in the daca case and obamacare, no question about that. on the case a couple weeks ago saying that you can't fire gay and transgender people it was a

6-3 vote. neal goil gorsuch was the key p there. he'sless of a factor in that case. no question he's now a very powerful chief justice because on these close cases, it seems like he's very of then the deciding vote just like anthony kennedy. kennedy we always forget wasn't very much of a conservative, too but he seemed to have kind of a less juris prudence. he plays a long game. for example, he did vote to strike down the louisiana abortion law but in so doing, he paired back the concurring vote, the court's finding four years

ago that struck down an identical law from texas. when you want to look at a restriction the state imposes, you look whether there is a burden against a woman and whether there is health benefits at all. roberts says no, that's not true. you don't look at the health benefit question at all. you look at the burden. well, that could conceivably open the door to the supreme court upholding different kinds of restrictions on abortion. so there is always a long game with john roberts in many of these. >> interesting. is there anything left on the court's docket that you anticipate will be particularly explosive to surprise us yet again? >> yeah, explosive cases will be whether the court says that congress with the prosecutor can get their hands on financial documents and tax returns from president trump. house democrats from three different committees subpoenaed

the president's accountants and banks looking for years and years worth of financial documents and the manhattan district attorney wants the president's tax returns for criminal investigations. both involve subpoenas that, two different questions about the power of a local prosecutor and the power of congress to subpoena these documents. if i had to guess and this is a guess based on the oral argument, it's tricky to do that but seemed like the court would say the congressional subpoenas that were such a broad sort of blunder approach, that they weren't sufficient ly carefully tailored enough to be legitimate and i would think my guess is the court will say congress can't have it. my guess is also they will say the new york district attorney can. so we'll see if -- that's big. then a case of passionate interest to "kasie d.c." viewers whether they are free agent the

and can vote for whoever they want or whether they have to follow the election returns of the state i think the answer is pretty obvious the supreme court is not going to say they are free agents. >> well, that would be quite a decision. pete williams, thank you very much for being here on this holiday weekend. i always appreciate your time. we saw record mail in voting this week in colorado but there is new alarm in republican circles that places like texas, the president's crusade against mail in voting could sup press republican turnout. that and the uncertain party of the republican party in november coming up next. e republican parr coming up next what do you think? i don't see it. only pay for what you need. ♪ liberty. liberty. liberty. liberty. ♪