are your feelings about how we're doing right now? >> as a country, when you compare us to other countries, i don't think you can say we're doing great. we're just not. >> america's leading infectious diseases expert dr. anthony fauci with his assessment yesterday of the united states handling of the coronavirus pandemic. he says effectively, not great. good morning, welcome to "morning joe," i'm willie geist, it's friday, july 10th. six states set single state records yesterday. several hard hit states are considering reimplementing stay-at-home orders. texas had 105 deaths yesterday and governor greg abbott extended a ban on elective surgical procedures. florida recorded 120 deaths yesterday, cases in the state have doubled since late june but

governor desantis is continuing his push to opening schools in the fall. dr. anthony fauci yesterday calling the pandemic a public health official's worst nightmare. we have a lot to tell you about this morning about the virus. we'll speak to the chief of trauma and surgical critical hospital in florida and go to one in south carolina where msnbc got exclusive access to a coronavirus floor. president trump is sidelining top health advisers in a rift over the response to the pandemic. but first, the supreme court, justices say president trump cannot stop a new york prosecutor from seeing his personal finances but also blocked congress from getting them for now. joining us jonathan lemire, former u.s. attorney, joyce

vance. investigative reporter for "the washington post" david farnhold. and historian and author of "his truth is marching on," john meacham. let's get to the details of yesterday's supreme court decisions. the court ruling the president's financial records must be handed over to a new york grand jury but congress has more work to do to make its case. both cases were decided by a 7-2 vote and sent back to the lower courts with neil gorsuch and brett kavanaugh in the majority. in the opinion, the president of the united states does not have immunity. john roberts asserts, no citizen, not even the president is category above the common duty to produce evidence when called upon in a criminal proceeding. we reaffirm that principle

today. cyrus vance is investigating alleged hush money payments made to women who say they were involved in affairs with the president. president trump denies that. the supreme court decided that congress is not yet entitled to see many of the same records sought it in new york. it's returned to the lower court to see if tcongress should narrw the parameters of information. joyce vance, let's start with you, what do these decisions mean for the president? he was railing against them first, and then the white house was calling them win. he moved to victories last night because they were kicked back to the lower courts. will the public see these documents? >> the short answer to that question, willie, is the public won't see any of trump's tax records in the short term at

least. but yesterday was a good day for the rule of law. one of the first in a long time the battle is maybe won in the supreme court, the war over this issue is not over. but here's why i say it was a good day for the rule of law. trump sought rulings from the supreme court that would have fully insulated him from any investigation whether it was a state da with a criminal case or congressional oversight and the supreme court said that's not the case. you can be investigated like any other citizen, you're subject to oversight by congress as a president. i don't think any legal expert expected the supreme court would wave a magic wand and make trump's tax returns public. yesterday's rulings were about as good as we could have hoped for. the 7-2 ruling is something we should focus on. this is a court that often has been divided 5-4 on the big

issues. that the supreme court mustered two majorities tells us a lot about the strength of the rules, the president is not above the law. and we don't know how quickly lower courts are prepared to act. whether or not the da in manhattan, cy vance, is sitting close to a case that he's ready to indict. it's possible that we could finally be entering a new era where the courts actually seek to engage in oversight over this president. the supreme court yesterday gave courts the ability to do that. >> and we know that the president believes that supreme court justices he installed, gorsuch and kavanaugh are there to defend him and he's learning again and again that's not the way they view their roles on this court.

joyce, what happens now in the manhattan district attorney's office, cy vance says we've got this, we waited a long time, now we can start the case, reopen and go back to work. how long will it be in the system? when might we see some production of evidence and the resumption of this trial? >> so here's where the manhattan da is, he's in the middle of investigating. we don't know where he is. we don't know everything that he's investigating, willie. there's been talk this is about stormy daniels, tax returns can be a road map for prosecutors on a host of fraud issues. so depending on what he has information about. this could be the lynch pin for cy vance or something that requires further investigation. but the reality is what he needs to get from the trial court is modest. the biggest bulk of it is that he will have to satisfy them that this request is not somehow

overbroad, not meant to harass the president. and with that stunning federal indictment of michael cohen, in which the president is individual number one, an unindicted co so con spear or the. since he seeks tax reports from third parties, vance could be prepared to move quickly here. we don't know if he's sitting on a completed investigation or in he's still in the early stages. >> i said the resumption of a trial, of course, there's no trial in manhattan yet, it's an investigation as you point out. john meacham there's been question over the last three and a half years over whether or not the institutions will hold, the founding principles, the judiciary, congress will hold in

the face of donald trump. it appears today on all these decisions the last week and a half, immigration, gay rights, presidential power, that the supreme court, i including two appointees made by the president have held, they have read the law. there was some john meacham catnip in chief justice roberts' decision where he said going back to jefferson, presidents have produced documents. >> when you start with the 1870 and the aaron burr translateaso trial, that's an opinion. >> yes. take that. >> on the institution, the old line about -- mark twain saying the reports of my death were greatly exaggerated but mark twain did die eventually, so i don't want to go too far. i think it was a strong day for

the notion that these institutions will stretch and strain but ultimately have not broken yet. i'm not saying they won't break but they haven't broken yet. and i think the court did their job. it's a sign of where we are, willie, in that you have to congratulate people for doing their duty. that the bar is so low in this era. so i don't mean to, you know, have a brookings institution birthday party for this by any means. but i do think that we should take the court at its word, a 7-2 decision in this era is like a 10-0, if you adjust for bipartisan. and what is fundamentally important is that it did reaffirm a central principle of the american experience, which is that no one is above the law.

the law may be unjust. the law may not be what we want it to be. but it does apply to all of us. and that's one of the two or three most important principles, and it was upheld. the historical nature of this is something that you can walk through the opinion, but john marshall, who's arguably the most successful and influential politician of the american public and therefore history, we don't think of him as a great politician but he kind of instituted judicial review. the constitution doesn't lay out what the supreme court does, john marshall who was the fourth chief justice, we went through three quickly before he was appointed by john adams about five weeks before thomas jefferson become president.

jefferson and martial were cousins but political foes if not enemies. i give that to you basically to help along willie's education. >> thank you. >> but mainly that these divisions have been present from the beginning. but ultimately we have at our best, acceded to, as joyce was saying, the rule of law. and one of the central fears of this era has been -- for a lot of us has been that the president ultimately would not obey it. so far so good but it's an every day matter of vigilance. >> while the president's response evolved during the day on twitter first he claimed this was a political prosecution.

he followed that with four tweets writing, the supreme court gives a delayed ruling that they would never have given for another president. this is prosecutorial misconduct we catch the other side spying on my campaign and nothing happens. despite this i've done more than any president in history in the first three and a half years. the president then said this on camera. >> basically starting all over again sending everything back down to the lower courts and you start all over again. so from a certain point in time, satisfied, from another point i'm not satisfied because this is a political witch hunt. the likes of which nobody has seen before. it's a witch hunt, a hoax, like the mueller investigation was a hoax that i won. this is another hoax. >> press secretary, kayleigh mcenany in the briefing room was

describing the ruling as a, quote, big win for the president. >> that decision today was a win. it didn't sound, from the president's tweets this morning, that he viewed it that way. has his thinking on it changed as he had time to digest? >> the president was making a point about deference on the principle of absolute immunity, which is the pros tour that the president took in court, he believes there should have been more deference there. the justice citing constitutionally speaking the president never sleeps must be ready at a moment's notice to protect the marijuana peopameri. but it is a big win as all nine justices said this needs to be remanded back to the lower court. jonathan lemire, you're at the white house, it's either a

witch hunt or a big win depending on who you ask. jay sekulow is also calling it a win. the president doesn't want his tax returns, financial records to see the light of day particularly before election day. what's the concern now with the two 7-2 decisions. >> you're right that the west wing's response was somewhat schizophrenic to the rulings yesterday. the president's real anger on twitter and then it evolved as the day went on. politically we'll see what sort of fallout we have here. there's a sense the tax returns won't see the light of day, won't be made public after the election. so in that sense there was a sigh of relief from the white house, if that holds true. but the anger from the president was that the court itself, in particular according to our reporting, the justices that he appointed, kavanaugh and

gorsuch. he demands loyalty from his appoint ties, his staff in his circle p even though he doesn't always exhibit it in return. as he is fighting for re-election here and is down in the polls, one of the rmt arguments his campaign has made time and again is they have two justices, gorsuch and kavanaugh. and hi's saying give me another four years i'll have the chance most likely to appoint one if not more supreme court justices to give you, his supporters, the rulings you want. he's had a set back in rulings the last couple weeks, and according to our reporting, his issues are with chief justice roberts.

we saw last night the president did an interview with his friend shawn hannity on fox news and was sticking to the story he would release his tax returns if they weren't under audit from the irs. it's been an year's audit. no way to fact check that claim. this is another issue for the campaign. he is questioned on a daily basis about his handling of the coronavirus which continues to ravage this nation on top of that. we're talking in short hand about the president's financial records here. you spent the last five years or so studying the finances around president trump, around his businesses, around his family. so what exactly are we talking about here? if they did see the light of day, if they became public, what would we learn about the

president? >> well, if we saw everything that both the house and manhattan da asked for, we'd learn a huge amount about trump's -- not just his taxes but the representations he made to banks, what credit risk he was, any suspicious activity reports that people at deutsch bank filed. huge amounts of financial information. it doesn't sound like we're going to see all that. the most expensive requests were from the house and the house lost its case more thoroughly than the manhattan da did. one of the important things about the administration when trump brought his business into the white house with him, he brought all the relationships and entanglements and obligations so he sees the world in a way we don't because we

don't see the business connections he sees. so we'll be able to see how he views the presidency in that sort of hidden dimension of the presidency. >> many reasons people are interested if in seeing the returns because elections are coming up and it can tell us ways that donald trump has lived his life. the thinking is the public will not see it before election day. do you believe there's a way, is there any speed in this investigation that they could become public before election day? >> i think that there's such an important distinction to draw here between coming public and between being put to use by investigators or oversight professionals. it seems unlikely we'll see them in public through an official mechanism. perhaps now that the ruling is out there there will be alternative sourcing for the

documents. we've seen whispers of that blow. i'd be interested in hearing from david, the president has always said the financial papers are his red line, that mueller couldn't look at them, no investigators were to go there. now that the president is under siege, david, do you think he'll make mistakes or bring forward other indicia of what's in the papers in an effort to protect them? so often he's been his own worst enemy, in essence spilling his own secrets. what do you think we'll see from the president going forward? >> one thing interesting as donald trump as careless as he seems to be and people talk about him saying the quiet part loud with regard to politics, not keeping things secret when he should. it's different about his finances and always had been. the trump organization is a private company, gives little information out to the public. what information it does give

out is often misleading or incorrect. he's never been somebody who lets details slip about his finances, i don't anticipate that changing. that's never the one thing he's sort of careless about. >> investigative reporter for "the washington post" who's been on the beat for many years, david farnhold, thanks so much. we'll have more on the story just ahead. our next guest is a doctor who said she would lose our medical license if she said some of the nonsense we've heard from the political officials. she joins us next when "morning joe" comes right back. t when "m joe" comes right back. hey, can i... hold on one second... sure. okay... okay! safe drivers save 40%!!! guys! guys! check it out. safe drivers save 40%!!! safe drivers save 40%! safe drivers save 40%!!!

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the cdc reportedly is feeling increased pressure from

president trump as the relationship between public health experts and his administration grows more strained. "the washington post" reports the cdc finds itself forced to backtracked and sidelined in pivotal decisions. one person told "the washington post" there's a feeling the cdc is staffed with deep state democrats trying to tweak the administration. others say they've been frustrated by what they view as career cdc staffers determined to keep things closed, according to a senior administration official. so now the deep state has affected the cdc according to the trump white house. anyone who crosses the president must be a member of the deep state even when they're public health officials. that seems to be the new

narrative, willie. these are whispers that have grown louder throughout the west wing to reporters in recent weeks and in particular the last few days, where it's a sensation from those in the building behind me. first of all, they blame the early days of the pandemic for the first test, the coronavirus test they were developing being a failure, it was a significant setback, they moved too slow the white house believes and valuable time was lost in the early days in january, february as the coronavirus was just reaching american shores. and since then they feel like the cdc overcorrected and tried to, as hard as this is to believe, spend too much of a focus on the public health concern that the cdc has put roadblocks up in terms of economic reopening, that just in the last week its guidelines for safely reopening schools were too strict and the white house pushed them to reevaluate and it's developing some of its own

guidelines. because you're right, this is an administration that from the oval office itself has always viewed anyone who gets in the president's way, even in the course of doing their job, career officials, long-time political servants are political enemies and should be pushed aside. we're seeing that as the president's poll numbers continue to slip as he bet so much on the return to normalcy, the reopening of the economy, which includes the reopening schools, and they feel the cdc has been getting in the way and the president has been listening less and less to the people there. and to the final point the faces on his task force, dr. fauci and dr. birx. dr. fauci fell out of favor in a long time and now there's stories that dr. birx has

irritated the inner circle and a sense that she's also losing her influence inside the building. >> i'm stuck on the fact that you reported that the white house is concerned that the cdc is too focussed on the public health consequences of coronavirus. that's literally its job. but jonathan, there is real pressure on the cdc we saw it yesterday when they agreed to change their guidelines on schools because the president thought they were too restrictive. they said we'll come back and change it, maybe make it easier to reopen schools. that's a change in the guidelines that could lead to the change in the way we open schools. >> which could have significant consequences and complications. there's a lot unknown in terms of how to safely open school, is distancing needed, are teachers going to be safe, how children for the most part seem to be less impacted by contracting the

coronavirus, how significant spreaders are they? these are all things still being studied and need to be figured out rapidly as some school districts go back in a few weeks it a's going to require time and money to do that and this is an administration that doesn't have credibility in handling the coronavirus pandemic, there's been missteps throughout the months in its response and the cdc, as we've seen officials before, does seem to be bowing to the political pressure of the president. officials who don't want to lose their jobs, who do want to curry favor with the president. sometimes they feel if we comp 3450iz compromise on this we stay in the room and impact other changes. i'm not sure that's what's happening with the cdc but it seems those will change, those guidelines will be altered just a bit. >> dr. redfield was on tv saying we're not changing the

guidelines for schools we're adding information. joining us is a professor at the grossman schools of department information health dr. lippy roy. good to see you. let's begin where we are in the coronavirus crisis. we've seen huge spikes we've talked to emergency room physicians who say they're overwhelmed in the ers and icus. we're approaching 60,000 cases a day, setting a new record yesterday. what are your concerns as we push on through the summer? >> good morning, willie. when i look at that map, it's ironic that the name of the country is the united states of america. what i see is 50 disjointed states of america, each state has been left on its own, left to its own devices, struggling

to respond in whatever way they can to keep their residents safe. that's not how this should be working out at all. in your previous segment talking about the cdc and these careered scientists and professionals, public health professionals, they're handcuffed. they're giving recommendations, but they're being persuaded under political pressure to soften their guidelines. their primary mission is to maintain the health and safety of the american people and that's just not happening. when you look at what's happening in states such as florida, texas, california, it's alarming from a medical standpoint, willie. >> so, dr. roy, we know in the state of texas they've rolled back some of their reopening as the cases have exploded there. florida has done some of that, but not as much and still talking about opening schools. as a public health expert what

would you like to see in the states of texas, arizona, and florida to stem this? >> i'd like to see the local leaders, from the mayors to the governors, follow evidence-based guidelines. the only two measures we have right now for this virus which we have no cure, no treatment, no vaccine, the only two public health measures we have are prevention, it's covering your face. i do not leave my apartment without wearing a mask. so covering your mouth and your nose and the physical distancing. as you know, willie, here in the northeast when we experienced a hel lish period, we shutdown, governor cuomo made the tough decision to shutdown and stay at home. as a physician, if i behave this way said masks, optional. we won't be practicing social distancing like the south dakota governor recently said, not only

would i lose my job, i'd love my medical license. political officials need to be held accountable and held to the same standards. >> john meacham has a question for you, johdoctor. john? >> as you look at the numbers, is there any way out of -- medically -- public health speaking, returning to where we were in the middle of march? where i live in tennessee there's different faces. i think we're in phase three but most folks who study it say we should be in phase one. that we were in impatient, we as a country, we were impatient we did not trust the expertise and too many americans got bored with the crisis, wanted to change the channel but the virus

doesn't occasicare about that. >> thanks for framing it that way. you're hearing covid fatigue, pandemic fatigue. the problem is the virus doesn't care about your or my fatigue. it's going to infect people who create an environment for it to thrive. so this virus loves when people congregate, when we're close the respiratory droplets can transfer. i get frustrated, too, i want to go out and have a good time, go to hockey games all those things i cannot do that. there's widespread of -- community spread of this virus. as you can clearly see by the different states. you're right, you're in tennessee, there are certain parts of the country that didn't have many cases. so when new york was going through -- new york, new jersey going through this hellish period in march and april other

parts saying it's not affecting us, this is a northeast problem. it's not. we can see it as plain as day, this virus is affecting everybody in every state. >> dr. roy as we move across the southeastern convention we go to alabama, joyce vance has a question for you. joyce? >> good morning, doctor. i have a question looking a little bit forward. i know we're all focused on today and trends in the virus. but looking ahead to november many states have adopted new provisions for voting, expanding mail-in voting but in other states like alabama voting is predominantly in-person. we know that historically voters, particularly elderly voters, are much more comfortable voting in person. so do states need to be taking steps now to ensure people can vote safely in november or do

you think this crisis will be over by then? >> i'm not seeing any evidence that this pandemic is going anywhere, any time soon, certainly not by the fact that -- the way we're reacting to it. and the way this pandemic, the direction it'll go will in many ways be dictated by our own behavio behaviors. so until we really stay at home, practice physical distancing and cover our faces with masks, this is not going to get better. to your point about older individuals who go in person and many other states in the south like alabama, we have a high proportion of african-american individuals these are populations, older, chronically ill, black americans, these are people affected by this virus, this infection. we need to create options so these individuals can vote safely from home and not get infected by this virus. remember when the influenza

season starting in september as well. >> dr. roy, nyu grossman school of medicine. appreciate your expertise. thank you for being here. coming up, joe biden pushes his pitch to boost the economy. how he plans to bring back the millions of jobs that have evaporated during this pandemic. "morning joe" is back in a moment. joe" is back in a moment ♪ book two separate qualifying stays and earn a free night. the open road is open again. and wherever you're headed, choice hotels is there. book direct at choicehotels.com. c'mon pizza's here. whoa! is that shaq? this is my new pizza the shaq-a-roni and it's bigger than pizza because for every shaq-a-roni sold, $1 is donated to the papa john's foundation for building community.

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former vice president joe biden was in the battleground state of pennsylvania yesterday where he laid out an economic plan designed to counter president trump's america first policies. biden focused on manufacturing and framed his economic agenda around a new campaign tag line, build back better. >> these are basic values and principles that helped build this nation in the first instance. now the challenge is to take the fundamental values and apply them to the new economy we have to build in the years ahead. and folks, it's not sufficient to build back. we have to build back better. that's what my plan is, to build back better. it's bold, it's practical, and it's focused on building an economy for the future, not for the past. let's use this opportunity to

take bold investments in american industry and innovation. so the future is made in america. all in america. >> joining us now president of the council on foreign relations and author of the book, "the world a brief introduction," richard haass. good to see you, obviously pennsylvania will be important in a few months. i suspect that vice president biden will take the same message to ohio, michigan, wisconsin as well. what do you make of his message there on build back better putting the elite ration aside. it seems it's coopting what president trump was saying in had a different way in 2016, which is that i'm going to bring the jobs back. manufacturing is not dead in america. >> this is a big economic nationalist message, willie. i think in part it comes from

the virus, actually. this is a way of reducing our vulnerability on foreign suppliers. the idea is how do we avoid putting all our eggs in a basket that could get interrupted for a health reason or politics, whatever. and this gets the government more involved in the economy, creates jobs. this is the moving of the pendulum, the moving of the cycle. for years all people cared about was getting the least expensive goods. now it's the opposite. we're going to say there's more important things than price, we have to have people working. we have to have inventory so if things get interrupted we have a cushion. i also think what this is going to be married to is investment in certain things. for example, if you give money from an automobile company you

demand mileage standards, demand work on new energy. i think a lot of things are going to come together but you're right it's an economic message and you're like lie to have both candidates talking about it in different forms. >> steve bannon said the same thing i said a minute ago, this sounds like the trump message in 2016. i give them credit on the biden campaign, it's smart. >> it's not the first time you've channelled steve bannon, although it's usually your fashion sense. >> a barn jacket thing. >> wear as many shirts as you can below the jacket. it's an interesting observation and it's true. i want to ask richard about that in a moment but i note the optics of it. we heard from president trump's campaign so often that joe biden is hiding in his basement in delaware. there's been a consistent

effort. joe biden has been out there doing these sort of events, yesterday in pennsylvania. vice president pence was also in pennsylvania yesterday as an effort to defang a little bit of that argument. the president will be on the road today, i'll be traveling with him to florida for events, including a fund-raiser and tomorrow the rally in new hampshire. but back to joe biden's economic plan. the idea of nationalism, does it fly in the face of what the obama administration had done for eight years? that's what the trump campaign says, this is joe biden going back on the proposals and policies that he supported as vice president for eight years and how big of an investment, how much government spending would this require for it to work? >> i think there is a shift in the conversation but even now somebody like vice president biden, as i understand it, is talking about not getting into what we used to call the transpacific partnership, the u.s.-asia pacific economic

organization as is would have to be renegotiated. and donald trump renegotiated what was nafta. i think again the politics are you can be involved in global trade agreement, you have to be able to argue you got something different and better. this will cost enormous sums of money. this will probably be linked to changes in taxes if vice president biden becomes president biden. i think we're at a moment in history here. it might be an exaggeration to say. there's elements of a new deal. i think we're looking at american history where the government role in society gets bigger, you'll see the government involved in manufacturing and saying we can't be dependent on imports for these materials. the government is going to be spending more money in the society. a lot of the progressive agenda is going to happen on things like health care, guaranteed

income. i think we're entering a period of history where the free market is going to dial down and government intervention to provide a floor for more americans is going to be dialled up. i think it can happen regardless of who wins the election. >> john meacham the trump campaign's p efforts to paint biden as a leftist took another hit with this buy american. he also talked about fracking. he said fracking is not on the chopping block, fracking is okay. when asked if he would defund police, he said no. we're going to rethink policing. he hasn't gone down the paths more progressive members of the party would like him to go down. and yesterday putting out an economic message that's tough to hit, buy american. what are you going to say to that? >> and i like richard's view on this, because dare i say it, richard, 30 years ago you were

charged with presenting difficult realities for public consumption, particularly in the first gulf war, and you talk about the shift from -- to a more government -- more government involvement in the economy. i get worried that as that conversation takes place, as that impression develops in the next 125 days or so, that that might be the one lifeboat for donald trump is basically managing to caricature the former vice president as a tool the aocs of the world. and you see this already in the conservative media. talk a little bit if you would about how do you message a biden plan that does involve higher taxes for the kinds of folks who probably don't talk very much today about the fact that they

voted for donald trump in 2016. but you do have economic elites who have decided to put up with the behavior of the president. in order to have a bigger payday at the end of it. how do you -- if you're biden, how do you talk about what you're doing and avoid falling into a biden's just a socialist in a tie? >> i think willie was eluding to it, john, you have to thread a needle. you want a larger government role in the economy and society and we saw the economic nationalism yesterday he'll talk about it later, what's called the safety net making sure americans have the basics. but going back to a different campaign you'll have a different moment. you'll see specific issues where vice president biden is not going to agree with certain elements, take fracking for a lot of people on the far left

they want to stop it altogether. you heard him rule that out. you heard the fuel shifting, that's a net gain on climate and not to rule it out and fracking can be done in a way that's environmentally responsible. so my hunch is the arrows will be towards economic nationalism but there will be specific issues where the vice president will try to disagree with people on the far left, this or that tax issue, this or that investment issue. so he can say, i'm an economic nationalist trying to rebuild america, i'm not, however, a socialist. that's the needle he has to thread in this political debate. >> richard haass, always good to have you on. take care. a growing number of republican senators choosing to sit out next month's republican

convention. now there's information that officials may be looking to move the event outside in the florida heat in august because of concerns over the coronavirus. you're watching "morning joe" we'll be right back. ♪

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joyce vance there was an extraordinary story that kind of got lost in the fire hose of news this week that was former manhattan u.s. attorney geoffrey berman testifying before the house judiciary committee and saying he was told by attorney general william barr if he did not resign, he would be fired people remember last month he was fired his office was looking into a number of trump associates and he was let go from his job. what did you make of his testimony just coming out and saying it, that i was pressured to leave? >> this is a remarkable story, willie, that we need to keep our eyes on, even with everything else that's going on.

berman testified behind closed doors to the house judiciary committee but he released a brief written opening statement and even in those brief comments, berman clearly stated he was pressured by the attorney general to resign for political reasons and when he did not agree to resign, in fact, he thought he and barr were on track to have conversations over the weekend. the attorney general released a statement that was a flatout lie saying that berman had resigned. so i'm old enough, unlike you, to remember a time when the political firings of nine u.s. attorneys led to the overthrow of an attorney general, led to troubles in the doj, attorney general gonzalez was forced to resign after it came to light these nine u.s. attorneys had been fired for political reasons. we are early days on the berman scandal. so far we've heard crickets from

the republican side of the aisle but the southern district of new york is unlike any office, it's powerful because of its broad jurisdiction. here there's the suggestion that berman was removed because of investigations that were awfully close to the president. we need to watch this as it develops and not let it drop off the radar screen. >> not only did berman say in that statement that you referenced that the attorney general said you have to resign or you're going to get fired. he said, if you get fired that wouldn't be so good for your future job prospects, effectively saying you'll never work in this town again. joyce vance thank you for your insights. still ahead on "morning joe," coronavirus cases are mounting. in some cases deaths now on the rise. we will get an exclusive look inside a south carolina hospital where covid patients are being treated. plus former house leader

daniel golden talks about the supreme court's ruling over the president's taxes. "morning joe" is coming right back. s taxes. "morning joe" is coming right back and we always will. ♪ ♪ for people. ♪ ♪ for the future. ♪ ♪ and there has never been a summer when it's mattered more. wherever you go, summer safely. get zero percent apr financing for up to five years on select models and exclusive lease offers. managingaudrey's on it.s? eating right... ... and staying active? on it! audrey thinks she's doing all she can to manage her type 2 diabetes and heart disease, but is her treatment doing enough to lower her heart risk? maybe not. jardiance can reduce the risk of cardiovascular death for adults who also have known heart disease. so it could help save your life from a heart attack or stroke. and it lowers a1c.

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well the names have all changed since you hung around but those dreams have remained and they've turned around who'd have thought they'd lead ya back here where we need ya welcome back, america. it sure is good to see you.

the only thing that can tear america apart, and i mean this since sincerely, no foreign country, not the way he cuddles up to -- i shouldn't get into this, but coddles up to putin and others.

they can't tear us apart. the only entity, the only thing that can tear america apart is america itself. period. so we just need to remember who we are. this is the united states of america. there's not a single thing, nothing, not a single thing we've ever failed to do when we've decided to do it together. that's what this is about, doing it together. we have a great opportunity to build back and build back better. god bless you all and may god protect our troops. thank you. >> former vice president joe biden concluding a speech in pennsylvania yesterday, welcome back to "morning joe," it's friday, july 10th i'm willie geist. jonathan lemire still with us. and joining us the conversation now, republican strategist and msnbc political analyst susan

dell pierce owe and maya wiley and donny deutsch is with us and daniel goldman, who served as majority council in the impeachment inquiry against donald trump and staff manager to the house during the impeachment trial. let's dig into the supreme court ruling yesterday saying the financial records of the united states president must be handed over to a grand jury but congress has more work to do to obtain the records. both cases decided by a 7-2 vote. with trump appointees gorsuch and kavanaugh voting in the minority. writing for the majority, chief justice john roberts asserts no citizen, not even the president, is categorically above the common duty to produce evidence

when called upon to deliver evidence. cyrus vance is investigating alleged hush money payments made by the president who said they were involved with affairs, the president denies those. the supreme court said they're not entitled to see the same records. it should be returned to the lower court to narrow the parameters it sought. dan goldman let me start with you. trying to get these documents for the impeachment trial, what's your reaction to a pair of 7-2 rulings and what are the practical implications here? >> it makes clear that the president is not above the law, the president is not a king and the president needs to comply with subpoenas that are

legitimately and properly issued. in the criminal case the president is not unlike anyone else. in the congressional issue, congress needs to go a little further than it may otherwise have to go with any other individual in order to get records of the president. and the congress needs to just make a more detailed showing, essentially, that the presidential records, the presidential papers, the documents, whatever it may be, are necessary -- necessary is probably too far a word but could not be found anywhere else and that are needed for the congress' legitimate legislative objects. so both cases now go down to the lower courts, and they'll be litigated again all the way back up -- probably not to the supreme court but probably to the appeals court. and the net effect of this, willy, is that the president, even though he lost his legal

arguments, he won by losing. and the delay will go past the election in november. i think in both cases, i don't think there's any real chance that either case will resolve itself on that the president's financial documents are turned over to congress or to the new york da before the election. so that means the president will be able to shield his tax returns and financial documents from the american public through two election cycles. >> i think i said a moment ago that justices gorsuch and kavanaugh voted in in the minori minority, they voted in the majority of the 7-2 decision, to the dismay of president trump. can you speak to what you bumped up against with this administration in the impeachment trial.

>> what we bumped up against in the administration was an unequivocal rejection of any congressional authority to provide oversight over the president and the executive branch. while these cases have to do more with congress' legislative prerogatives and investigative needs to legislate, the efforts by the president to reject any kind of oversight were so sweeping and so unprecedented, there's no question that that impacted the justices as they were considering these cases. these specific documents at issue were not really relevant to the specific impeachment investigation but the same kinds of legal arguments that the president is king and the president has absolute immunity and congress has no authority to wade into any kind of executive

branch activity, those are the same kind of legal arguments rejected yesterday. >> so maya wiley, john roberts wrote that the public has a right to every man's evidence and that includes the president of the united states, and chief justice roberts took us back to thomas jefferson up to bill clinton saying presidents have appeared, answered subpoenas. what was your reaction to this decision? did you believe it was in doubt and were you heartened that the supreme court upheld this? >> i did not believe it was in doubt. it would have been very troubling if we had seen any other kind of decision than the one we had seen and it doesn't surprise me it got conservative justices on its side because the arguments of the trump administration, i say administration because the department of justice not just donald trump's personal attorneys, was relatively

outrageous and the decision reflects that. i will go a step further into dan's important point here about ultimately there is a win for the rule of law. but there really is something more troubling to me about what this reflects in terms of the delay for the american public. in terms of donald trump's financial records, the district court -- the d.c. circuit court made an important point that's gotten lost in the supreme court case, which is that, you know, congress has this thing called the emoluments clause of the constitution it has to be concerned about and that that doesn't require, as we have argued all throughout the proceedings leading up to impeachment doesn't require it to declare an impeachment proceeding at the front end. its own rules don't require that. but to say that there is so much

evidence of potential corruption and of this president putting his own interests ahead of the country's national security in many instances, that that means his financial dealings go straight to the heart of whether or not he's violating his oath of office and whether or not congress -- congress needs to take legislative steps to ensure it doesn't happen again. i think those were really important points in the d.c. circuit opinion and i think one of the things that was troubling was, the government -- you know, the attorneys for the house honestly needed to be stronger on limiting the scope of what it was asking the supreme court to decide, to narrow it because it didn't have a good answer to the question. just saying you can do anything you want, and it did need to argue we aren't saying that. here's how limited this particular decision is for you. and that didn't happen and that

means the american people are getting less protection from a lawless president. >> donny, you've been saying for three and a half years on this issue and many others with this president, follow the money. look at the business relationships, look at his tax returns, look at the financial records. you've known donald trump for a long time. you said many of these things in a tight shirt, i should point out, and you'll do so again this morning. what did you make of the decision out of the supreme court and the implications for the president affirming what you've been saying for a long time? >> what's interesting is, on the one hand yes, his financial records are so important because i think the thing is not the fact that it's going to show he didn't give any money to charity and his assets are much smaller -- it's really any connections to russia. p but let me put a big but on this. the thing bringing down donald trump is his failure on the

virus, race relations and the economy. and biden, a smart nationalist message. those are the things. what is baked in to the american consumer is that he is a sleazy businessman, we can't trust him, he's corrupt. what's that hillary ran on the last time and it didn't work. the for the rule of law, the supreme court ruling was very, very heartening but i don't want the democrats to get off track. after this is over it'll end up in a rico indictment against the entire trump organization but the sleazy business dealings is not the way to get the guy out of office, it should be but it's not. it's his failures on the coronavirus, putting people at risk, and the economy and race, so i don't want the democrats to go down the rabbit hole again. good news for the rule of law but i want biden to focus on what he's focussing on. >> we're looking at a tweet from dave wasserman and points out

what you're saying, the polling he sees in swing states shows the public is not interested in many trump's taxes, although this is an important step for the supreme court. they're focused on coronavirus, the economy and getting their jobs back. meanwhile, michael cohen was sent back to prison yesterday for confusing to comply with the conditions of his furlough. cohen who was released from prison early was at a courthouse in new york to sign a home confinement requirement. among those was a gag order, u.s. marshals came to take him into custody when he refused to sign the agreement. the "new york times" reports, quote, somebody from on high is at work here. the rules were clear for michael cohen, stay home, don't go out

to a restaurant, stay off twitter and he didn't comply with any of those things so u.s. marshals brought him back to prison. >> according to michael it wasn't clear, he was on furlough and they had not make it under house arrest and under furlough he was not stuck at home. you can say it was bad judgment and he should have taken the safe route. but what put him back in jail was not that he had been out, was that he would not sign the disclosure form that he would not talk to the press. that he would not in any way tweet. which i think from the government's point of view, i understand where they're coming from, he's supposed to be in jail, although he's out, it's because of covid and he should not have this public megaphone. he was still -- the lawyers can talk about this better -- furloughed and not under house arrest. >> he wasn't on parol, which

means he could go out and live his life. he was on home confinement, what did you make of cohen getting back into prison yesterday? >> i would like to see some of these other home confinement orders, because what jumps out to me is, it's very odd that a condition of home confinement is that you cannot publish a book. you can publish a book from prison. nothing that says you can't do that if you're writing in prison. he could send to it a publisher and the publisher could publish it. that strikes me as odd and particularly strikes me as odd in the context of president trump trying twice over the past month to squelch books by john bolton and his niece. i'd be curious if any other conditions of home confinement for the numerous people released

on home confinement because of covid includes some clause along those lines. the book thing is very odd. it's something that i think some enterprising reporter should look into. >> we'll come back to some of these legal questions. jonathan lemire has to literally catch a plane, air force 1, he's traveling with the president this morning. let's talk about the president's weekend, headed to florida for a fund-raiser then up to new hampshire for a campaign rally. what's the message this weekend? >> the president and his campaign are trying to reboot the campaign yet again. let's remember, of course, he was sidelined for months after the pandemic first reached the united states. his attempt at a political comeback, the rally was in tulsa and by all accounts inside and outside the campaign a debacle. it was build as a huge show of force, boasts of a million

ticket requests instead only 6,000 people showed up in a deep red state and the president was in a rage about it. they've had to go back to the drawing board in terms of how they're going to try to campaign during covid-19 particularly a time when the virus is surging in a number of states, including florida, which is where we're going today, but not a coronavirus event. the president has a trio of events, a fund-raiser is the first one, coming on the heels of joe biden outraising him last month. another one with southern command, touting how the entry of illegal drugs into the country has fallen off, although the pandemic plays a large role in that. and then tomorrow, rally 2.0 in new hampshire, it'll be at an

airline hanger, so outdoors. the campaign is setting expectations lower, not sure how many people will show, encouraging use of face masks but a lot of eyes will be on this. if there's another disappointing crowd it'll be questions about whether the president can do the rallies he loves so much at a time when americans are worried about their safety. >> and the choice of new hampshire unusual too. it's a state the president lost narrowly in 2016, it's considered a reach right now, polls show he's down fairly significantly there. he's not writing it off, but it's not a must win state like florida, pennsylvania or michigan. but the question is, has the governor, who's willing to have a large gathering here, while governors of pennsylvania and

michigan won't be waving health regulations to have a rally any time soon. the campaign said they will fight that. but the governor, a republican, in new hampshire won't be attending the rally. he encourages everyone there, including the president, to wear a face mask. the covid rate in new hampshire not as high as in other states but certainly something that a lot of campaign officials are watching. are people going to show up? >> we note much less hype around this rally than there was before tulsa when the disappointing crowd showed up. jonathan lemire we'll let you hop on the plane. have a good weekend. susan, let's pick up the conversation there. the president going to new hampshire to hold a rally. as i said his rally in tulsa didn't go well. they claimed a million ticket requests, a few thousand people showing up. the city officials in stulsa s y

saying they're tracing covid-19 cases out of that. you worked on campaigns, not like this, of course -- >> no. >> -- but what is your message in in the middle of the coronavirus, cases are exploding and he's trying to wish it away saying we're handling it well and his health experts like dr. fauci are saying we're not doing well in podcast interview after podcast interview. what can the president say right now? >> not a lot the people will believe. he'll go into his racist pro-confederate statue rant yet again and he thinks it will appeal to a small part of his base. it's worth noting, governor sununu, the republican governor is not attending this event, that is significant. when we don't know how many people are going to show up but part of me wonders if that crowd

is small if the president shows up at all. that falls on the heels of we have six u.s. republican senators not going to the convention in florida. they have previous engachgement every excuse you can think of because they know it's not safe. whatever message he has only the base is buying it, no one else will. it'll be interesting to pan out to the crowd and hopefully they'll show donald trump they care and are at least wearing face masks and are somewhat social distancing. >> let's look at the other side of the campaign and vice president joe biden yesterday made a speech in pennsylvania laid out an economic vision for the future, he talked about buying american, we were talking in our last hour about the trump campaign's attempt to paint joe biden as a tool of the radical left of aoc and whatever else they're saying now. but in event after event, speech after speech, policy rollout,

that label doesn't seem to fit joe biden. >> it doesn't. and that's a problem for the trump campaign. they can't pigeon hole joe biden into something that the public doesn't buy. his build back better yesterday was exactly what the american public wants to hear. how are we going to get out of this mess, whereas donald trump refuses to believe we are in a mess. that's leadership. that's what people are looking for. they're looking for answers, how do we do better? how do we protect ourselves in the future. biden said last week, early this week, if dr. fauci will say, hopefully stay on the administration because he wants the health expert's advice and he will take it. there is striking messages. one candidate sees there's a problem and we need to fix it and the other refuses to see that there's a problem and thinks he had nothing to do with

it. that's a big problem and what the american public also wachbts are people to take responsibility. donald trump is saying to the states, go have at it, i don't have time for this. you figure it out. whereas joe biden is looking at it as we have to work together as a country to solve our problems. >> the president is moving on from coronavirus. the virus itself not moving on. maya wiley, president trump's form former adviser roger stone said he thinks going to prison is a death penalty. stone is scheduled to begin his 40-month sentence for lying to congress, on charges that stem from former special counsel robert mueller's investigation. stone has appealed his conviction and denied any wrong doing. he asked an appeals court to push off his you render date to

september. when asked if the president would give him some form of clemency, he said, i pray he does. the president saying yesterday, if he's praying, i think his prayers will be answered. is it inevitable if the president is going to commute the sense? >> it's hard to know. donald trump cares about donald trump. does he want to commute the sentence, help roger stone? particularly if he can do it in a way that does what bill barr was trying to help him do, which is flip the script on the russia probe, suggest this all was a hoax. i don't know, whether or not he'll ultimately do it if he thinks that it will not help his re-election bid. i think that's the only lens we can expect from donald trump.

so the question is, will he see it as more helpful to himself to create his hoax narrative and to advance it? or will he decide, i'm better off leaving this one right where it is, because it may not help me get re-elected. we'll see. >> again, the president said if you say he's saying, of roger stone, his prayer may be answered. let's see what happens. that's from the president of the united states. maya wiley, thank you good to see you. daniel goldman, thank you adds well. i suggest you'll get room raider points with the surf board over your shoulder. still ahead, dr. anthony fauci said coronavirus infections have spiked, due to states reopening too quickly, one state he mentioned by name is florida. up next we'll speak to a health official at a hospital flooded

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hospitalizations in the country are up 50% since mid june, how can the president say that the country is in good shape right now? >> with hospitalizations, in a lot of these hospitals, i spoke with dr. birx this morning, about 10 to 40% in the hospitals reaching high capacity are covid, so a lot of hospitalizations aren't pertaining to covid. >> it's not because of covid? >> a lot of it is elected surgeries and other surgeries that have opened up, about 10 to 40% of hospitals reaching capacity is covid related. >> that's press secretary kayleigh mcenany with that response to peter alexander on covid hospitalizations. according to the covid tracking project hospitalizations topped 27,000 in mid june compared to nearly 44,000 this week, that's a 58% increase in less than a month. florida reported its biggest jump in hospitalizations yesterday with 409 new patients

admitted. as of wednesday florida's daily new average of cases was over 9,200 a 30% jump since last week. and florida health officials reported 120 new deaths yesterday, the highest one day jump since early may. that brings the death count to about 4,000. the ninth highest total in the country. joining us now dr. nicholas namiyas. thank you for taking time with us this morning, doctor. is the crowding you're seeing in your icus, ers, hospitals, because of elective surgeries? >> no. the elective surgeries have been stopped. we're not bringing in patients that need to stay in a hospital or icu. the only surgery we're really doing are patients who can go home the same day. and other than that, they're

real crisis sort of emergencies, people who have an organ for transplant, trauma, something like that. >> what is the picture you can paint for us of your emergency rooms and icus right now? we see the statistics, but what's the real life look of what's happening inside your hospitals? >> the real life look is worse actually in the emergency rooms. because once you get to an icu, we've had time to prepare and things look like an icu. but the emergency rooms are busting at the seams right now. we've expanded emergency room capacity, we have created negative pressure areas in the emergency room. but we have people in the emergency room waiting to find a spot in the hospital as we try to grow the capacity in the hospital. it's wliek t it's like the games as a kid when you have to move the squares around to get them in the right place, because you have to move a bed to get it to

be a covid bed. >> why do you think you're seeing a crisis in your emergency rooms in florida? >> we're seeing this crisis because of the lack of a clear message to the people that they need to wear a mask and because of the politicization of the mask, which is not politics. it's just science. you have to cover your face to not spread germs. >> governor desantis said he's sending 100 nurses to your hospital system. what does the staffing look like? do you need more people than you have? do you have more health care fro professionals than you have? >> yes, that's made clear by the ceo who requested this of the governor. the rate of infection in the population is the rate of sta

infection is the same as the staff of doctors and nurses. i just brought a doctor back from quarantine yesterday. so we're not in a desperation move we need to be air lifting people in, but we're constantly functioning right on the edge and i expect this to blow up in the next week to ten days. >> in the face of these exploding numbers of cases, doctor, the white house, president trump, has asked the country to focus on the low death rate in the country, the number of deaths has slowed. what are you seeing right now in terms of death rate? are you seeing younger patients, healthier people come in? are you seeing increased deaths in the last few days as the statistics in florida has shown. >> yes, there are increased deaths. the patients are scattered over the hospitals, many doctors, many taking care of them. the patients i've seen with covid are -- some are extremely

sick and go through the most intense things you can think of and unfortunately pass away. and others are minor, others get some oxygen and go home. when you have an exploding number of patients even a tiny fraction that go on to the worst outcomes is too many when it could have been prevented by a face mask and keeping distance. >> the governor in your state suggested schools should be open. i know you and everyone else wants to see that happen but at this point, based on what you're seeing in your hospitals is it a good idea to open schools in florida? >> i think it's a good idea to ask the cdc on their first go around what the right thing to do is. they made some recommendations and it seems like it could all be possible but not with recommendations that are then corrected by an executive. so whatever the cdc comes out with for schools now, i don't

trust. i trust the original recommendations. >> doctor, thank you for your time and giving us a look inside the hospitals in the state of florida. senator pat roberts has joined the growing list of republican senators who say they're not planning to attend the national convention in jacksonville next month. he's the sixth to take a pass joining chuck grassley, lamar alexander, susan collins, mitt romney. meanwhile mitch mcconnell who said he would attend the convention told reporters yesterday the party may need to wait and see if the event can be held safely. >> it's challenging situation. and a number of my colleagues have announced that they're not going to attend and we'll have to wait and see how things look in late august to determine whether or not you can safely

convene that many people. >> according to several officials with knowledge of plans around the convention, it could be moved outdoors. "the washington post" reports that no decision has been made yet but republican officials are studying two outdoor sports stadiums near the arena in jill where the convention is currently scheduled to be health. the idea there is it's less likely to be transmitted in an outdoor setting, maybe you can distance in a bigger space. the fact of the matter is this is whitling away, democrats have said it's more of a virtual convention, most of it held online, they don't see the need to gather all those people in one place in the middle of a coronavirus crisis. at the end of the day, as we approach next month, jacksonville, is there going to be something nalooks like a conventional republican convention. >> outdoors in jacksonville in august has nightmare written all

over it, besides people not adapting to the heat well, i think elected officials don't want to be seen in that environment. and when we look at who's not attending, i would look at corey gardner out of colorado, thom tillis out of north carolina, martha mcsally, arizona maybe even joni ernst. what do they have in common? they're in tough re-election bids and don't want to be tethered to the president right now. i don't think it'll work but i think we'll see a lot of people having to come up with excuses to be in their district and state instead of attending that convention. >> willie, just follow the republicans to see what's going on here. the democrats, it was interesting yesterday elizabeth warren, pete buttigieg, kamala

harris were out for biden. whereas the republicans are staying away from trump. you have one party, interesting fact also, we were worried would the bernie and elizabeth voters get around biden but showing 87 to 4 of bernie sanders voters would vote biden and 80 to 0 elizabeth warren to biden. >> we should point out that senator roberts of kansas who announced he won't go is 84 years old and obviously that presents concerns, chuck grassley said the same as well. we'll go to south carolina next where nbc got an exclusive look at a covid floor. exclusive loo at a covid floor i like liberty mutual.

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we just talked about the state of florida let's move north to south carolina where cases are spiking, more than 1,000 confirmed just yesterday. joining us from west columbia, south carolina, allison barber. good morning, you've been talking to patients and doctors inside lexington medical center where i understand the icu is nearing capacity? >> reporter: this hospital, officials tell us, they have seen the number of hospitalized

covid patients triple in recent days and in terms of their total number of deaths, they say 30% of covid death haves come in the last two weeks. we spent the day inside visiting the emergency department, a covid floor and the covid icu floor, we were screened, temperature check before we were allowed inside and then suited up in full ppe. yesterday only four beds were left. statewide, 75% of all hospital beds are in use according to the latest data released by the state's health department within minutes of walking on the floor we saw a patient being ventilated, it was the third patient to be ventilated that day, it was well before lunchtime, 1:00 p.m. doctors say what they learned from watching other states and

hot spots like new york is that it is difficult to get patients off a ventilator alive so they try to not ventilate covid patients unless it is a true last resort. the fact they had to put three people on ventilators yesterday was rare and a reminder of the challenges they are facing at this hospital right now. doctors say there is no question they're in a surge. cases are rising. what they don't know is when the surge ends. the question is, how long can they handle the rising number of covid patients in addition to other medical patients. people having heart attacks, needing cancer treatment. we spoke to the doctor who did those three intubations yesterday. here's some of what she told us from the floor -- >> at some point if we have enough patients that are sick, taking up icu beds we may not have beds for patients who come

in for other reasons. >> are you worried this floor could hit the 18-bed capacity in the next week or so? >> it might. i think there's a good chance that our numbers continue to climb. i don't think we hit that peak at all. so i think we'll be seeing increased numbers. the thing is, from here we don't have a place to go out. >> reporter: i talked to one man who has been in the hospital because of covid-19 since june 30th. he was only 52 years old. he said that he went to get a test after he had symptoms but then he heard absolutely nothing for five days. >> by the time i got the attention, i couldn't breathe. i was week. i couldn't walk from here to the restroom. >> reporter: the state's department of health, they have started to expand testing but doctors here say it is not enough.

they don't have enough reagents to do the test that people are asking for, the test that people need to see whether or not they have covid-19. they say that is something that needs to be addressed at the federal level. for now they say the best thing people can do to help them is wear a mask. we talked to the chief resident of this hospital yesterday. he said right now, more of their numbers to put this whole thing in perspective. they said if you test positive for covid in this health district and are between the ages of 30 and 60 you have a one in five chance of being hospitalized and a one in ten chance of needing to go to the critical care unit. the youngest person treated on that covid unit was just 20 years old. >> that's an exclusive look inside that icu and you're reminded of the bravery of the medical professionals. thank you for bringing it to us.

the promise to restore decency to the white house was part of bush's message 20 years ago. why it could also be a winning message for joe biden. a live look at the newly painted message on fifth avenue in new york city. a 50 foot mural with the words black lives matter was painted in front of trump tower yesterday. this mural right in front of the place that donald trump has lived and worked for many years. "morning joe" is coming right back. "morning joe" is coming right back

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welcome back to "morning joe." a live picture at 7:51 in the morning at the white house. the president head flod ed to f for a fund-raiser. the biden campaign is out just this morning with a new ad with the message about the power of family. here is a first look. >> he took the train four hours every day so he could have breakfast with his boys in the morning. he tucked them in at night. people in washington didn't get why joe biden would travel all that way. but in neighborhoods all over this country, this no-distance

parent won't go for the kids. never underestimate the power of family or the sacrifices people will make for their children. that love, that hope, that determination. that's what fuels the american dream. it's why you stay up paying bills, sign up for that extra shift, worry about schools and health care. when joe biden traveled those four hours, he wasn't just going home for his kids. he was going to work for them, too, just like he will for yours. >> danny deutsche, our resident ad man, what do you make of the ad especially when it fits into what joe biden said yesterday in his economic speech when he said he comes from a working family, something that donald trump can't say. >> i say bravo. it's interesting. you contrast the trump ad trying

to define biden. he can define a challenge on his own terms. he's not doing it. he's running an ad right now that in biden's america there will be no police, you won't be able to get police on the phone. yet biden, the combination of the family message and bringing american jobs back, biden is defining himself, very reagane t ereaganesque. i think he's pitch perfect for what we need now, comfort, solidness, and he's playing on point. once again you contrast what trump's doing, what biden's doing. one feel like a desperate loser. one feels like the incumbent winner. >> donny deutsch with that notable subtlety that he's known for. susan del percio, you put together the speech with the ad from joe biden yesterday, what

do you get? >> you get stability, relatability, someone who's putting the needs of the country ahead of themselves. when you look at donald trump, he's getting crushed on it. it was those folks who felt that in 2016 he would be their champion. he is not, and they know it. this ad just brings out -- streams a perfect message, and it is in such stark contrast of what the president is doing. and that's the other thing that's worth noting. he's disciplined on message. this is the perfect thing to happen, to release the day after his speech like the one he gave yesterday about bringing america back. so there's a continuity and there's discipline. those are two things donald trump does not have. >> all right. susan, stay with us. donny deutsch, great to see you, my friend.

we'll see you again soon. appreciate it. coming up, the supreme court rejects the president's claim to absolute immunity. we break it down and see if there's any chance the public will see the president's tax returns before election day. neal katyal joins us along with u.s. attorney barbara mcway. "morning joe" is coming right back. mcway. "morning joe" is coming right back vidingclearer skin.y tremfya® may increase your risk of infections and lower your ability to fight them. tell your doctor if you have an infection or symptoms or if you had a vaccine or plan to. serious allergic reactions may occur. tremfya®. uncover clearer skin that can last. janssen can help you explore cost support options.

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doing right now if you look across the world? what are your feelings about how we're doing right now? >> as a country, when you compare us to other countries, i don't think you can say we're doing great. i mean we're just not. >> america's leading infectious diseases expert dr. anthony fauci with his assessment yesterday of the united states' handseling of the coronavirus pandemic, he says effectively, not great. good morning. welcome to "morning joe." it's friday, july 10th. i'm willie geist. six states set records yesterday. several hard-hit states are now considering reimplementing stay-at-home orders. texas recorded 100 deaths yesterday. and governor greg abbott extended a ban on elective medical procedures. florida also broke its own record for deaths in a single day, recording 120.

cases in the state have doubled since late june. but governor ron desantis is continuing his push to open schools in the fall. compare td the opening of schoo to the opening of a home depot. joining us this morning, white house reporter for the "associated press," jonathan lemire. former u.s. attorney for the northern district of alabama now an nbc analyst joyce vance. msnbc contributor david fahrenthold, and historical figure including "his truth is marching on," jon meacham. good morning. the court rules the president's financial records must be handed over to a new york grand jury, but congress has more work do to make its case, said the court. it was decided by a 7-2 vote and

sent back to the lower courts with trump appointees neil gorsuch and brett kavanaugh in the majority. in each it was the unanimous opinion that the president of the united states does not have absolute immunity as he has claimed. writing for the majority, chief justice roberts asserts no citizen, not even the president, is categorically above the common due toy to produce evidence when called upon in a criminal proceeding. we reaffirm that principle today. manhattan district tonight cyrus vance is investigating alleged hush money payments made to women who say they were involved in affairs with the president. president trump denies that. the supreme court decided, however, that congress is not yet entitled to the same records as the case in new york. they look at whether congress should narrow the parameters of what it sought. e parameters of what it sought let me begin this conversation with you. we've had a day to sift through

the rulings, 7-2, both. what do they mean specifically for the president. he was railing against them. then the white house called it wins. he called them two strings for him because they were kicked back to the lower courts. will we see the documents? we know cy vance will. will the public see these documents. >> the short answer to that question, willie, the public won't see any of trump's tax records in the short term at least, but yesterday was a good day for the rule of law, one of the first in a long time. the battle is maybe won in the supreme court, the war over thissive not over. here's why i say it was a good day for the rule of law. trump sought rulings from the supreme court that would have fully insulated him from any sort of investigation, whether it was a state d.a. with a criminal case or congressional oversight, and the supreme court said that's not the case. you can be investigated just

like any other citizen. you're subject to oversight by congress as a president. i don't think any legal expert expected that the supreme court would wash a magic wand and make trump's tax rurns public. so yesterday's rulings were about as good as we could have hoped for this 7-2 ruling from the justices. it's something we should focus on. this is a court that very often has been divided 5-4 on the big issues, that the chief justice mustered 7-2 majorities tells us, i think, a lot about the strength of this ruling, that the president is not above the law. and look. one thing we don't know is how quickly lower courts are prepared to act, whether or not the d.a. in manhattan, cy vance, is sitting perhaps on a case he's close to indicting. these could be slow matters that trickle on. very often the president has gotten the benefit of the delay game. it's also possible we could be

entering a new era where the courts actually seek to engage in oversight over this president. the supreme court yesterday gave courts the ability to do that. >> yeah. and we know that the president believes that supreme court justices he installed, gorsuch and kavanaugh, are there in part to defend him and he's learning again and again, that's not the way they view their roles on this court. justice roberts says every man has a right to evidence. what happens now? they say, we've got this, we've waited a long time, but we can restart this case, reopen and go back to work. how long will this be in the system? it's got to get kicked down from the lower court, we know that. but when might we see some production of evidence and resumption of this trial? >> so here's where the manhattan d.a. is. he is in the middle of investigating. we don't know where he is. we, frankly, don't know everything that he's gotting, willie.

there's been talk this is about stormy daniels. tax returns can be a real roadmap for prosecutors on a whole host of fraud issues. so depending what he has information about, this could be the linchpin for cy vance or something that requires further investigation. but the reality is what he needs to get from the trial court very modest. really the biggest bulk is he will have to satisfy them that this request is not somehow overbroad, not meant to harass the president. and with that stunning federal indictment of michael cohen in which the president is individual number one, an unindicted co-conspirator, it seems very likely that vance's subpoenas will pass muster and he will be entitled to move forward. and since he seeks trump's tax records not from trump himself but third parties who say they will comply with lawful orders from the court, vance could be

prepared to move pretty quickly here. we don't know whether he's sitting on a completed investigation or if he's still in the early stages. >> yeah. i said the resumption of a trial. of course, there's no trial yet in manhattan. it's an investigation as you point out. jon meacham, there's been so much question whether or not the institutions will hold, america's founding principles will hold, will the judiciary, will congress hold in the face of donald trump. and it appears on issues today and in the last week and a half on all these decisions on immigration, gay rights, and now presidential pow e that the supreme court, including two appointees made by the president, gorsuch and kavanaugh, they have held and read the law and there was some jon meacham catnip in chief justice roberts' decision saying going all the way back to jefferson since the beginning of the republican, presidents have

presented documents. >> yes. >> that's in john's wheelhouse. >> a couple of things. on the institutional question, the old line about mark twain say stg reports of my deck wely twain eventually died. i don't want to go too fafrm i would say the know it is of the institutions will stretch and strain but ultimately have not broken yet. i'm not saying they won't break, but they haven't broken yet, and i think the court did their job. and it's a sign of where we are, willie. you have to congratulate people for doing their duty, that the bar is so low in this era. so i don't mean to have like a brookings institution birthday

party for this by any means, but i do think that we should take the court at its word. a 7-2 decision in this era is like a 10-0 decision when you adjust for partisanship. and what is fundamentally important is that it did reaffirm a central principle of the american experience, which is that no one is above the law. the law may be unjust and may not be what we want it to be, but it does apply to all of us. that's one of the two or three most important perennial principles, and it was upheld. the historical nature of this is something that you can either walk through the opinion, but, you know, john marshall, who's arguably the most successful and most influential politician of the early republic and therefore

in american history, we don't think of john marshall as a great pal tishian, but, remember, he kind of invented judicial review. the constitution doesn't actually lay out what the supreme court does. john marshall, who was the fourth chief justice -- we went through three pretty quickly before he was appointed by john adams about a month before -- a month -- five weeks, i think, before thomas jefferson becomes president. jefferson and marshall were cousins, but political foes, if not enemies. and i -- i give that to you to -- basically to help along willie's education. but these divisions have been present from the beginning. but ultimately we have to our best acceded to, as joyce was saying, the rule of law.

one of the decisions was the president would not obey it. so far, so good. >> still ahead, president trump often touts his success filling seat on the supreme court. but how does that argument work now after both of his hand-picked justices ruled against him at the supreme court? "morning joe" is back in a moment. court? "morning joe" is back in a moment if you have moderate to severe psoriasis or psoriatic arthritis, little things can become your big moment. that's why there's otezla. otezla is not an injection or a cream. it's a pill that treats differently. for psoriasis, 75% clearer skin is achievable, with reduced redness, thickness, and scaliness of plaques. for psoriatic arthritis, otezla is proven to reduce joint swelling, tenderness, and pain. and the otezla prescribing information has no requirement for routine lab monitoring. don't use if you're allergic to otezla.

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the president's response to the 7-2 result appears in twitters all day. i won the mueller witch hunt and others and now i have to keep fights in a politically corrupt new york. not fair to this presidency or the admin strachlgs he followed that with a thread of four tweets writing part, the supreme court gives a delayed rule they

would never have given another president. we catch the other side spies on my campaign. the biggest political crime in u.s. history and nothing happens. despite this, i've done more than any president in history for the last three years. then the president said this on camera. >> the rulings were basically starting all over again, sending everything back down to the lower courts and start all over again. so from a certain point i'm satisfied. from another point i'm not sats fired. this is a political witch hunt, the likes of which nobody has ever seen before. a pure witch hunt, a hoax, just like the mueller investigation is a hoax that i won and this is another hoax. this is purely political. >> press secretary kayleigh mcenany over in the briefing room was describing the ruling as a, quote, big win for the president. >> you've mentioned that the court's decision today was a

win. it didn't sound from the president's tweets this morning that he deemed it that way. has his thinking on it changed as he's had more time to digest? >> the president was making a general point about deference. on the principle of absolute immunity, which is the posture that the president took in court, you know, he believes there should have been more deference there. justice alito citing the harvard law review made a very good point that constitutionally speaking the president never sleeps, the president must be ready as at a moment's notice to protect and preserve america for the peep. as justice kavanaugh noted, all nine justices need to remand it back to the lower court. >> jonathan lemire, you're at the white house. either a witch hunt or a big win, depending on when you ask in the moment. the president obviously doesn't

want his tax returns, his financial recording to see the light of day, particularly before election day. what's their level of concern with these two 7-2 decisions. >> reporter: you're right, willie. as you noted, the evolution of the president's relaying his opinion on twitter immediately after the announcements and then it's involved as the day went on. i think politically we'll see what fallout we have here. there's a sense the tax returns won't see the light of day until after the elections. in that sense, there was a sigh of relief for the white house if that, indeed, holds true. but the anger from the president was at the court itself, and in particular, according to our reporting, the justices he appointed, kavanaugh and gore suchlt as you said earlier, there's always a sense of loyalty with the president. he demands it from his appointees, his staff, his inner

circle even though he doesn't always exit it in return. you know, as he is fighting for re-election here and is down in the polls, one of the arguments his campaign has made time and again is the idea that he's appointed two justices. they got two justices, one with a smooth confirmation process. kavanaugh, of course, decidedly less some of he's saying, give me another four years and i'll have a chance most likely to appoint one, if not more supreme court justices to give you, meaning the supporter, the kind of rulings you want. he's had a series of setbacks. some of his anger has been directed at chief justice roberts since more or less he took office. in the last few weeks and in particular yesterday it was on gorsuch and kavanaugh, a real sense of betrayal as one close to the president put it to me. we saw last night the president did an interview with his friend sean hannity on fox news and he

was still sticking to the story he would release his returns happily if they weren't under review by the irs. he said the there have been years-long audits, but it's not been fact-checked. this is another disstrarkz for the administration and one they don't need right now as, of course, the campaign re-up, the president's about to go back on the road, and more than anything, he's questioned on a daily basis about his handling of the coronavirus pandemic, which continues to ravage this nation. coming up, the president is pushing headlong toward reopening schools this fall. that's putting the cdc in a very tight position. that discussion when "morning joe" comes back. sition that discussion when "morning joe" comes back. from prom dresses...

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daily basis about his handling daily basis about his handling the cdc reportedly is feeling increased pressure from president trump as the relationship between public health experts and his administration grows more strained. they're forced to backtrack and is sidelined from pivotal decisions including when it's safe for the country to reopen. one trump adviser told the "post" there is a view the cdc is staffed with deep state democrats that are trying to tweak the administration. they see it as cdc staffers determined to, quote, keep things closed. that's according to an

administration official. jonathan lemire, now the deep state has affected the cdc according to the white house. anyone who crosses the president must be in the deep state even when they're public health official. >> reporter: yes. that seems to be the new narrative. these are whiskers that have grown louder throughout the west wing to reporters in recent weeks, and in particular the last few days where there's a sense of frustration from those in the building behind me. first of all, they blame from the early days of the pandemic for their first test, the coronavirus test they were developing being a failure. it was a significant setback. they moved too slow and valuable time was lost in terrell days back in january/february as the coronavirus was just reached the american shores. and since then they feel like the cdc has overcorrected and tried to, as hard as this is to

believe, spent too much focus on the public health concern. the cdc has put roadblocks up in terms of economic reopening that just in the last week its guidelines for safely reopening schools were too strict and the white house has pushed them to re-evaluate and is developing some of its own guidelines because you're right. this administration from the oval office itself, has always viewed anyone who sort of gets in the president's way, even in the course of doing their job, career officials, long-time several servants are political enemies and should be pushed aside, and we're seeing that here as the president's poll numbers continue to slip and as he's bet so much and is so determined to reopening the economy including the reopening of schools as we've talked on the show, willie, all week, and he feels the cdc is getting in the way and has been listening to the people less and less. the final point, even the faces

on his public health team, dr. birx and dr. fauci, were seen day after day. dr. fauci fell out of favor with the president some time ago and has been sidelined and there's growing murmurs in the west wing that dr. birx has irritated those in the inner circle. there's a sense she's also losing her influence inside the building. >> john, i'm still stuck on the fact that you reported that the white house is concerned that the cdc is too focused the public health consequences of the coronavirus. that's literally its job. but there is, jonathan, there is real pressure on the cdc. we saw it in the open yesterday when they agreed to change their guidelines on schools because the president thought they were too restricted. they're going to come back, make it easier to open the schools. that's direct pressure from the president that led to a change in the guidelines that could lead to changes in the way we open our schools.

>> right. which obviously will have significant consequences and complications. there's a lot unknown in terms of how to reopen schools, are teachers going to be safe. how -- you know, children for the most part seem to be less impacted by contracting the coronavirus. how much -- how significant spreaders are they. these are all things that are still being study and need to be figured out rapidly as some districts go back in a few weeks. it's going require a lot of research and money to do that. right now this is an administration that doesn't have a lot of credibility in its handling of the coronavirus pandemic. there have been missteps throughout. yes, the cdc, as we've seen before, it does seem to be bowing to the political pressure of the president, officials who don't want to lose their jobs, officials who still want to carry favor with the president and sometimes they feel if we come premiez on this, we stay in the room and we can impact for

good other changes. it's not clear that's what's happening with the cdc. but it does seem like things will change, the guidelines will be altered at least in the days ahead. coming up. it's one of the big decision hanging over the heads of the supreme court. could the public see the president's financial records before election day. we'll get into next on "morning joe." get into next on "morning joe.

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i think it's really important. it's not a revision of the guide lions. it's just that we provide additional information to help schools be able to use the guidance that we put forward. that's what cdc has done. they provide guidances. they're not requirements. my position is that the public health of the students of this nation is best served by getting these schools reopened. right now we're working with the local jurisdictions with how they want to take tportfolio we've given to make it practical for the schools to reopen. >> that's cdc expert dr. robert redfield. he said it is providing, quote, additional reference document s.

a short time ago president trump threatened to cut off funding for schools if they don't reopen in the fall, tweeting, now that we have witnessed it on a large-scale basis and firsthand, virtual learning has priefben to be terrible compared to in school or on campus, elevening. not even close. schools must be open in the fall. if not open, why won't they? the poll showing his handling of the coronavirus, now down to 33% jiening us now an msnbc legal contributor kneel cat y'all and former u.s. district attorney barbara mcquade and also kurt bardella. he's a senior adviser to the lincoln project. susan del percio is back with us

as well. neal, let me begin with you as someone who understands the supreme court and how it operates, what did you make of the 7-2 decision, a pair of them, some saying it's a win for president trump because it kicks the can down to lower courts and buys him more time until election day. what's your analysis of this? >> i profoundy disagree. anyone who thinks it's a win for donald trump, it's a profound repudiation of everything donald trump said to the supreme court. there's a how question and when. the question, your claims about um munty from a grand jury subpoena are bogus and you have no special rights. presidents aren't kings, no person is above the law. then there's the question of when. when will the subpoenas be enforced by new york and the house. they say they're sending it back to the lower court to evaluate

donald trump's comments as an ordinary citizen rather than as something special. that's exactly what the new york prosecutors asked for. it's not surprising it's going down to the lower court. some are spinning it saying donald trump may be able to delay it until after the election. it's possible. but it's possible the court could move quickly. the supreme court did as much as they could. it's going to come out the way it's seen by the prosecutors that as you know, president views the supreme court as defenders of him. it turns out several times neil gorsuch and in these two counts justice kavanaugh disagrees with that. the majority opinion written by chief justice roberts says the public has a right to every

man's evidence, so what statement was made by the court not just about this case, neal, but more broadly about its role in our country? >> well, they're trying to be guardians of the rules of law. they don't always get it right. the chief justice has cast some rulings i disagree with as much as anything like the travel ban, but i think this term we really saw the supreme court doing what law is all about. you're supposed to blindfold yourself and say i'm not going to look at the parties before me and just trying to ask what is the right answer. and so on lgbtq rights, neil gorsuch cast d deciding decision. yesterday in a huge case for oklahoma, the biggest win for tribes, people like us have been trying for decades to go to court to fight for tribes and won small things, but it was a huge string. the abortion case, where the chief justice cast the deciding

vote and then daca. and yesterday, gorsuch and kavanaugh vote against him. i don't want to overthink it. there are times when the supreme court gets it wrochlkt you have go back a long time to find a president who did worse in the supreme court. you've got nixon, and i can't think of another one, and that's because donald trump is so profoundly anti-democratic, so profoundly against our traditions as a country under legal law. >> barbara, this does delay the presentation of documents from donald trump. if there's any good news for president trump, it's that. you say it's a good moment for the rule of law but not as good for this political moment. what do you mean by that. >> i'm not sure i'm as optimistic as neal that this is going to move quickly. i agree with him that this is a huge decision for the american people, that the president is not above the rule of law, that he must comply with the law, and

that prosecutors are entitled to his evidence just like everyone el. that is important. that's the long-term big picture story, but it is being remanded to the lower court and president trump can raise any kind of objection that any ordinary citizen can raise. i think he'll work very hard to delay it as long as possible. so even if the decision comes before november, that just means those records then go over to the manhattan district attorney's office. in lied of the complexity of the trump ordination, it could take a fair amount of time before they're able to put together those charges and it may exceed the campaign finance charges. michael cohen has talked about undervalue assets. but there could be substantial fraud cases that come of this, money laundering cases that come of this. i don't think it's going to

happen before the election. >> curt bothe law went against president, but did it mean anything in that he's been able to delay all the time and not just with this case but with other cases. he's basically told congress that you have nothing to say over me and his people aren't being allowed to testify in front of congress. what can be done? it seemed like the republicans got away with murder when they were doing it, and the democrats aren't necessarily using, it seem like, their full abilities or what's available to them, i should say. >> you know, susan, i think what we've seen is the best case why democrats in cog and in the house need to act to change the rules so that they have more enforcement authority of their

rules. if you refuse to adhere, they could impose a fine of up to $100,000 on you if you don't cooperate with congress. they could pass that right now. p it doesn't require a rule of the president or signature of the president. there's the entire premise of checks and balances so that one branch can hold the other accountable in real time. it doesn't do any good in that branch can say, you know what? we're going to do it the slow way, take as long a time as possible. while i agree with everybody that the decision by the courts were a stunning repudiation, it does allow the trump

administration to continue their strategy of playing for time. at some point we hope we have this disclosure and this transparency and we learn the truth about donald trump's finances and a broad depth in corruption of this organization, but it doesn't do the public as much good if that happens six mon months, a year, two years after he's left public office. these are things they need to know when you evaluate this president in a few months. so i hope that congress sees these rulings as the greatest incentive for why they need to act right now and give themselves real teeth when it comes to oversight enforcement. >> neal, i take it from your reaction you agree with kurt that democrats need to be aggressive here. >> 100%. kurt's words are music to my ears. evan should listen to this man. he's got it exactly right. look. trump is the primary person to blame here. he's denied congress in a way no president has and the supreme court basically said that

yesterday. the house bears some responsibility. they have not been nearly as aggressive and we're dealing with a really lawless administration, someone like barr who's been doing all of these shenanigans with u.s. attorneys and stuff like that and they sat on their hands for month after month after month. he says he's going to testify in a come of weeks. kurt's right. they have an inherent subpoena power. the house of representatives hasn't been using it. they can do all of it themselves. kurt's laid out the way. >> barbara, let's focus in on the congressional case that they can't get the documents they sought. you call that hogwash. walk us through that case and why you think they got it wrong. >> in terms of the congressional records? >> yes, the congressional records.

>> i think it's a delay in not turning over the records right now. i think president trump will utilize this opportunity to try to further delay things. does not have any special right. i think the court was very quick to agree that cy vance gets these records but not congress, and it read into the analysis that suspicious of congress and its real reason for wanting these things. i think they're not gives deference to a co-equal gift to investigate anything it wants to. it wants to investigate money laundering, finance rules, russia and elections. they have every right to those documents. here's a theory. people say if this drags out past the election, trump has won and it's too late to do anything about it. i don't think there is. i think if congress gets the document and there's a smoking gun in there, there's value in impeaching donald trump even in november. it's not just to remove them from office but to prevent them

from running again. if impeached, he could be prevented from running in 2024. >> barbara mcquade introducing an entirely new situation there. thank you barbara mick quaid, kurt bardella, and neal katyal. coming up next. two polls regardi. we'll bring you two strategies on the campaign. as we go to break, here's joe biden when asked about his mind-set and debates in preparation for the fall. >> i can hardly wait to deal with what he refers to himself as the stable genius. i can hardly wait to debate him. . cut! is that good? no you were talking about allstate and...

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when it comes to covid-19, trump has simply given up. he's waved the white flachlgt he's walked away. his failures come with a terrible human cost and deep economic toll. >> joe biden yesterday criticizing president trump's response to the coronavirus crisis. according to a new abc news indianapolis soes poll out just this morning, only 33% of americans aprav of president trump's handling of the pandemic. he's down eight points since june. 67% of americans disapprove. among republicans, his approval of handling the crisis has dipped in mid-june and only 26% of independents approve of the way he's handling this crisis. that's a 14-point drop just

since last month. as for his handling of race relations, 32% say they approve. 67% say they disapprove. joining us now, three winners of presidential served as white house deputy chief of staff to president obama and ran his 2012 re-election campaign. he's the ceo of the messina group. and we have president of brilliant corners research and strategies and an msnbc political analyst. and co-host of the "circus" on show time. it's a great group. welcome to all three of you. you've written a piece for "vanity fair" about a return to decency which is a theme you all

ran on with george w. bush in 2000 coming out of the clinton years, restored decency. that seems to be a lot of the sub text of what joe biden is doing. >> it is, willie. and the thing that i'm struck by, there are a lot of parallels between his message now and george bush's in 2000. the only life raft that donald trump is hanging on right now is that he's better to handle the economy. that may go south before this election is over. he's hanging onto the wisdom that often presidential elections are decided by the economy. in 1992, james carville famously said, it's the economy, stupid. and it has been traditionally. but that was the case in 2000 when we ran, people felt very good about the economy. we had to have a different kind of message. we discovered that people were worried about the cultural drift, bill clinton's

irresponsibility in the culture directly tied to monica lewinsky and what happened there. we had a message about restoring honor and dignity to the white house. and i made ads that had that message over and over and over again. it's the most dominant message that we expressed. and when joe biden won the primaries he said we're closer to restoring decency to the white house and i heard that and said, man, you're right on message because i think in this current environment, there are a lot of other things that people care about. they care about the economy. his speech yesterday was very strong and if he check mates trump on the economy, it's game over. >> cornell, you lived in data on both of president obama's campaigns. as you look at polling right now, national polls are interesting. that's not how we vote. if you look in swing state polling with joe biden leading, as of now, it's only july 10th,

leading in places like michigan and wisconsin and pennsylvania that donald trump obviously needs to hold on to, if you're on joe biden's campaign, how are you feeling this morning? >> i'm optimistic but nervous at the same time. and i want to pick up on what my friend just talked about with the economy, stupid. it's racism, stupid, in this election. when you look at how both covid and racism is overrunning the conventional issues right now and the polling data you just showed, the president is way under water on dealing with covid and way under water on dealing with racism. the public polling, you see a majority of voters saying that racism is a major voting issue right now. and battleground polling that we have, 78% of white college voters prefer a candidate who is most focused on race and discrimination.

50%, much more likely among white college voters and that sort of candidate who is more focused on racism beats the candidate of law and order by 30 points among white college voters. you see a trend line happening both in voters' awareness of racism and for the first time you have a majority of white voters who actually see the racism and understand that racism is a major issue. i think we've had the year of the woman. i think we've had the year of soccer mom voter. i think 2020 might be the year of the george floyd voter as voters are voting on racism and rejecting donald trump and a lot of republicans around it. >> cornell, i know you're a good campaign strategist, the minute a campaign gets a lead, your reaction is to get nervous. that's probably the right reaction. jim messina, where do you see the race right now? what do you make of joe biden's message yesterday of by america. and we were talking about the

attempt of the trump campaign to paint joe biden as a leftist in league with some of the members of congress that president trump likes to talk about. that's not a label that sticks based on his record for 40 years or what he's talking about today. >> it's true, willie. and i think yesterday is going to be known as a big moment in this campaign. the economy is the only thing holding donald trump up in this election and joe biden went right at that sweet spot yesterday and he did it in the perfect joe biden way, a blue collar mantra. somewhere out there joe scarborough is celebrating. he talked about reconstructing our economy in a way that makes sense and i thought it was exactly what he needs to do. and you look at some of the numbers that we were talking about, only a quarter of independent voters improving on the president's numbers on

covid, race relation numbers, historically bad for the president. the economy is the only thing holding him up here. and i think if you start to look at the other number that i thought was profound this morning, willie, his number starting to crack amongst republicans. when you run a presidential campaign, one of the numbers you care the most about is enthusiasm. are your voters more enthusiastic than your opponents? this has been an absolute sea change in six months between the two campaigns. now it's democrats who are incredibly enthusiastic. you saw that with joe biden's $141 million number of finance last month. you saw it in the senate races with democrats raising unbelievable amounts of money and you see the president's base beginning to erode in these battleground states. a quarter of republicans now disapproving of the president on covid, on race relations in the six battleground states that are going to matter.

>> mark, we've talked about how the president is out of step with where the country is. as cornell pointed out on race and racial justice, also where the country is on coronavirus. saying things are fine. that's not the reality in people's lives. he focuses on the preservation of american heritage, he's talked about the confederate flag, criticizing nascar for taking it down at their events. but it turns out the country is not focused. we have a tweet here, polling he's seen in swing states, they're not worried about confederate statues or trump's taxes that we've been talking about this morning. they're worried about coronavirus, they're worried about race relations and their jobs. >> that's the bigger problem for donald trump which is his instinct -- this is the way he ran in 2016 -- is to go backwards. his message about making america great again is sending a message to people saying so much is

happening in this society that is bad for you. we have others coming across the border, taking your jobs, losing your paycheck, industry has left. so donald trump doesn't know how to communicate a forward-looking message that deals with issues like covid, dealing with issues like race. that's all about the future. donald trump only knows how to talk about the past. that's why you see him returning to confederate statues and races and all of these other issues, willie. >> cornell, a question on how this messaging is starting to get baked in. we're at the point in a campaign where you typically try and brand the other person. it seems that donald trump, by mishandling covid so badly, has branded himself as incompetent. and i wonder how much his numbers now are going to be baked into what we see in november that they're so solid that he can't dig himself out of it? >> that's part of the problem as

the two veterans that also on the show know. it's hard to turn around a negative. once a negative -- that was part of the problem with hillary. it was tough. her unfavorable was upside down in the same way that donald trump was. so it's hard to turn a negative around. to a certain extent, people ask me, why is he doubling down on the division? why is he doubling down on sort of these racial issues. he's got nothing else. you can't -- he can't become bill clinton, all of a sudden he's going to be the candidate who is compassionate and feels your pain. if you go back to 2016 and look at the data there, it wasn't that voters thought that donald trump was the most competent person, the right temperament to be president. other than doubling down on racial resentment, this is not someone who has a lot of other cards to play. i'm not surprised that he's

doubling down because he has to hold on to his base. you let him stop being the tribal strongman for those voters right now who feel angst about the changes in the country, they move away from him, he's done. >> we're up against the top of the hour. we're going to force you to come back next week to expand our conversation. jim, cornell, mark, susan, great insights from people who have run these big campaigns and won. thanks so much, guys. thank you all for watching. have a great weekend. we'll see you back here next week. stephanie ruhle picks up the coverage right now. thanks, willie. i'm stephanie ruhle. it's friday, july 10th, and here's what's happening this morning. we start with an uptick in the daily death toll from coronavirus. on thursday, that number was above 1,000 for the first time in weeks. in all, more th