i know that it's not ununexpected to have an increase in covid cases. with the reopening of businesses and trying to get the economy going again, but it does feel

like it's out of control. that it's not being managed in a controlled way. and it's a scary prospect. >> we're often forced to come to grips with what it's like inside these hospitals thanks to social media videos like this one, this far into this pandemic we're again hearing from the front lines about shortages, nurses are sounding the alarm that they are running low on ppe, personal protective equipment -- the masks the gowns and the like, the basic supplies they need to do their jobs. five months into this, in the mid of what is the second spike of the first wave, as cases continue to rav average,

especially the southern and western united states, medical unions are renewing calls for federal government help. assistance that public health experts say could have made all the difference early on. the president of the largest union of registered nurses say a survey of its own members shows, quote, we're five months into this and there are still shortages of gowns, hair covers, shoe covers, masks, n95 masks, they're being doled out and we're still become told to re-use him. here's vice president mike pence from two days ago on the topic of ppe shortages. >> ppe, we hear remains very strong but we're encouraging healthcare workers to begin now to use some of the best practices that we learned in other parts of the country to preserve and to re-use the ppe supplies. our focus is to make sure our

states have everything they need. when they need them. >> good lord, joining us now is the executive director of the united nurses -- bonnie, how are you? >> we're hanging in there and we're fighting tooth and nail for every single piece of ppe we need because we do not have adequate enough of ppe to care for our patients safely. >> bonnie if you didn't have to worry about not having personal protective equipment, how much of a burden would that relieve, last time you were here, 88 nurses have lost their lives to covid, to protecting patients and helping fight them. now, 149 nurses by our count have lost their lives. this is a life and death issue having this basic, low-tech care to protect your very lives and

the lives of your families. >> exactly, as we have been saying, this is -- it's a novel virus the ppe is not novel, we know exactly what we need to protect ourselves and in order to protect ourselves and take care of our patients. what we're experiencing now, hospitals are expecting nurses to re-use and they're utilizing decontamination methods that aren't safe and effective on single-use ppe, this is something that we could have dealt with months ago if we had an administration, a president enacting, fully enacting the defense production act. to mass produce the ppe that we need. >> i don't think we can run that bit from the vice president often enough, here's the head of the coronavirus task force, say

nothing of the fact that we only had three public briefings in the space of two months, the vice president of the united states, the wealthiest nation on earth, in effect wanting to have it both ways, we're good on ppe, but that said, we're still asking people to preserve and re-use equipment. you mentioned it again. the greatest nation on earth telling the people we ask to be on the front lines, go ahead and stretch out that face mask beyond the time on your shift when you would usually recycle it. >> that's right, and this is completely unacceptable and what we're seeing now is the increases in hospital-acquired infections, where the hospitals should be a beacon of safe patient care they're actually becoming vectors and we didn't meet the threshold in the first

place to reopen and so we knew that the surges were going to happen. at this point, we need leadership, we need leadership to fully invoke the defense production act and we need enforcements so the hospitals aren't hoarding masks from nurses as well. >> bonnie castillo, continue to come back to keep us honest and keep our viewers informed. thank you for spending some time with us today. brian, it's remarkable to be telling or listening to people tell some of the same stories that were told in april, it's almost like 9/11 happening four times over. it's -- it's -- it's -- the pandemic is the calamity but continuing to do the same thing over and over again feels like the insanity. >> and when you mention the number of rns who have paid with

their lives for fulfilling the role society expects of them, they're the first people who meet you at the door of the e.r. transferred to icu, guess who meets you at the elevator, cares for you the entire time you're hospitalized? we're the wealthiest nation on earth and this is unacceptable as we enter spike two of wave one or whatever it is we're witnessing. thank you for having me. have a good weekend. i'll be watching. >> we'll be watching you at 11:00 as well. when we come back -- donald trump says those resisting his rush to reopen schools need to, quote, stop the madness, but major coronavirus outbreaks in summer camps are proof of the risks facing our kids, even outdoors, if we send them back too soon. that story, next.

as donald trump pushing state and local leaders to press on with plans to re-open class rooms as early as next months, summer camps across the country are being looked as a dry run of bringing kids back together. some already have become hot spots for infections. >> reporter: for many families, the camps are synonymous with summer. decided to open with extra

precautions. one of its overnight camps were closing after two positive cases. camps in at least eight states have now seen coronavirus outbreaks. dr. jason newland, a pediatric disease specialist sends his daughters to kanakuk. but not this year. >> once you get one child, or counselor ill, now it's going spread like a wildfire. >> reporter: 26 million children typically attend summer camps. this year, only 6 .5 million. >> it was something that we thought they really needed. >> 60% of parents say they have no idea how to keep kids engaged this summer. the doctor says outdoor day camps may be safer than sleepaway. >> probably the question we all want to know better is what is the likelihood that some of these children took it home and passed it to an adult. >> reporter: kanakuk didn't

respond to our request for common. the but camp plans to reopen later this summer. >> schools incredibly important for young people. we think camps are important. >> reporter: how camps fare this summer could be key to whether schools open this fall. we're now happy to once again welcome back to the broadcast, one of my favorite guests dr. michael anderson, president of usf children's hospital in san francisco. dr. anderson, this debate, now totally overcharged with politics, donald trump's unique brand of politics about what to do about schools in the fall, what's your take? >> yeah, it's taken on a very political dustup if you will especially intense over the last couple of days. the american academy of pediatrics put out a statement recently that i agree with, that

the notion is, we know that for developmental reasons, for social reasons, for, you know, food and school reasons, kids have to get back to school but we've got to do it safely, we got to mitigate the risks as best we can, a real tension between how do we things that are appropriate for kids, for the development, but how do we mitigate the risk as much as possible? to say we're sort of making this up as we go along is a little bit true. how do we mitigate the risk as best as possible and when these kind of outbreaks happen, how do we respond and make sure it's the safest possible for kids? it's going to be really intense and delicate debate. >> i mean, i keep looking at this kerry sanders' report on our network earlier this week, about the actual bubble, a literal bubble around professional sports leagues that did not sufficiently protect all

the athletes from infections and from spreading infections among each other, even resulted in the delay of some planned baseball games, so with more money than god in an actual bubble, with infinite access to test if they can't pull it off, how schools especially underfunded schools expected to pull it off? >> the notion of what schools have to do, it's already tough to be a school leader or a member of a school board just balancing all the demands, now we come out with recommendations, we have to have less kids per classroom, they have to be distanced, they mean more people, we have to have more cleaning agents, masks and figure out which kids can wear masks and which can't. it's a really intense time for these school districts. not a time to defund schools, it's a time for local schools to work with pediatric experts and most importantly to work to ensure families we're bringing

all the potential resources we can. i had a colleague here at my hospital today said that she was a school board meeting last night, very engaged in the dialogue, asking the administrators, asking the medical directors tough questions, because every parent wants to feel as comfortable as they can as my infectious disease colleague you had in the previous story feel that we're doing everything that we can and also we can respond. because you and i over the next couple of months we'll talk about outbreaks, there are going to outbreaks whether it's camps or schools, how quickly we respond to those outbreaks is another thing we have to deal with. >> i think what's so scary about my colleague's reporting there is that this was a camp trying to do everything right, the kids were outside, they were socially distanced and 82 infections are known to have resulted from being outside and socially distanced. i live in a place where being outside is not really feasible

much past october, what's the realistic prospect of a normal -- i don't want to use the word normal -- of a class room experience for most kids next year? >> yeah, it's going to be different and different for a while. of course, everyone is anxious to develop a vaccine, but we got months, if not years before that's widespread. there's going to be a new normal and the way i look at it, this is not whole of government, not whole of academics, this is a real whole of society response. we have to bring resources together, how to bring medical expertise together and then how to respond, if we try this classroom setup and it doesn't work, well, then, how do we go back to hybrid? how do we mitigate that? i wish i had more concrete answers. i really think it's going to be us working together not in the political dustup of the day but really in working to bring

academics, pediatricians and the schools together. it's going to be a long couple of months. it's a new normal as you said. >> i think it's going to be a long couple of years as you're saying and i'd love to ask you to keep coming back, i think -- i think the saddest thing about this issue is that there's no division among people, teachers, moms and kids all the same thing. they all want to go back to school. a political casualty here it's been hypercharged with the trumpian politics of this era and it's just an issue -- life and death decisions that all families, all teachers' families are going to be making and i hope we can continue to have this data-driven, fact-driven n conversation in this space. >> as i said before, 24/7, i'm on call for you. i'm glad to have this dialogue because i think it's time for journalists and pediatricians

and all of us to come together. >> as i have told you before, you're someday going to regret that 24/7 offer, but hopefully not yet. thank you so much for spending some time with us. when we return -- roger stone says he's praying for c m clemen clemency, donald trump saying stone's prayer may be answered. that story straight ahead. when our daughter and her kids moved in with us... kids, bedtime! ...she was worried we wouldn't be able to keep up. course we can. what couldn't keep up was our bargain detergent. turns out it's mostly water, and that doesn't work as well on stains. so, we switched back to tide. one wash, stains are gone. kind of like our quiet time. [daughter: slurping] what are you doing? don't pay for water. tide is concentrated with three times

the active cleaning ingredients. if it's got to be clean, it's got to be tide. (vo) at whether on the track,that exhor the everyday drive.ty, today, that philosophy extends to how we connect with you. we call it, audi at your door. whether a remote test drive, shopping, trade-in, or even service pickup, audi at your door can do this and more at participating dealers. the premium audi dealership experience, on your terms. audi at your door.

and mine super soft? with the sleep number 360 smart bed, on sale now, you can both adjust your comfort with your sleep number setting. so, can it help us fall asleep faster? yes, by gently warming your feet. but can it help keep us asleep? absolutely, it intelligently senses your movements and automatically adjusts to keep you both effortlessly comfortable. will it help me keep up with him? yep. so you can really promise better sleep? not promise... prove. it's our weekend special, save up to $900 on select sleep number 360 smart beds. plus 0% interest for 48 months. ends monday. ♪ ♪

now is the time to support the places you love. spend 10 dollars or more at a participating small business and get 5 dollars back, up to 10 times with american express. enroll now at shopsmall.com. dr. stone's back in the news just four days before he's expected to report to federal prison. the president's long-time bestie and political svengali says he's praying for presidential clemency. and this morning as he left the white house for florida, donald trump said he's considering a pardon for stone. >> i'll be looking at it. i think roger stone was very unfairly treated as were many people. >> and this afternoon more news about a one-time trump ally michael cohen has been transferred back to federal

prison in upstate new york. joining our conversation is our good friend neal catyall who has argued many cases before the supreme court. i want to get one thing out of the way. you were so right about people in my line of work being so wronged, and it was part of yesterday's supreme court decision saying no one is above the law or criminal prosecution that shaped the path of reporting that i went down, and i just want to get you on the record on the decision yesterday and where it takes us from here. >> thank you. i thought yesterday's decision was a remarkable achievement for the rule of law. it's the rule of law coming back. it's the supreme court with donald trump's own appointees saying, look, we don't live in a monarchy. these king george type claims are completely wrong, and i think they have put the courts on a path toward getting this information to the prosecutors, at least in new york and probably to congress as well. so i think it was a resounding

victory for the rule of law and a thorough repudiation of what donald trump has stood for. look, it's really hard to lose a case in the supreme court if you're the president, and trump manages to keep on doing it time and time again. >> so much losing. but as if trying to even the score with the rule of law, trump dangling the possibility of a pardon for roger stone. i was reminded by a former republican doj official that this was matt whitaker, i think the trumpiest before bill barr, the trumpiest acting a.g. in history that approved the sentencing for roger stone. what would a pardon signal? >> i think it would signal an attempt by trump just to repudiate the rule of law. it's ironic that a day after the supreme court rules in this way, this is what trump is thinking about. and it fits his m.o. he doesn't care about the law.

in the whole essence of the rule of law, nicolle, here is hand an enforcement of criminal law. when you're speeding and you get pulled over, your first reaction is why didn't you pull over that other person who was speeding, too? roger stone was convicted of all the charges against him and sentenced to 40 months in prison. 40, by the way, is the number of years that president trump and roger stone go back to being bestis and convicted. then folks try to undo this, the sentencing. they go into court and say, oh, the sentence should actually be less. the career prosecutors all resigned and discussed. one of them just testified in congress that he was pressured to try and drop the sentence recommendations because everyone was, quote, afraid of the president and the like, and now you're seeing the culmination of this, trump now talking about a pardon, which doesn't meet any

of the criteria the justice department uses for a pardon. there is no remorse by roger stone, there is no case for this. it doesn't meet the doj guidelines. it does meet the trump guidelines which is you've got to be a friend of the president in order to get a pardon, like joe arkayo. but it's sick and its wrong, and it's also self-dealing because trump himself is implicated in some of the stuff that roger stone knows. and the unredacted mueller excerpts we've seen suggests that. >> well, unfortunately for those of us who care about the rule of law, i feel like this is a story we may be coming back to, and i hope we can call on you, neal, one of my favorite people to talk to about all of these threats. thank you for making time for us today. coming next, as the coronavirus devastates families across the country, donald trump thinks the victim the donald trump. next. m the donald trump. next

it works naturally with the water in your body to unblock your gut. free your gut, and your mood will follow. about medicare and 65, ysupplemental insurance. medicare is great, but it doesn't cover everything - only about 80% of your part b medicare costs, which means you may have to pay for the rest. that's where medicare supplement insurance comes in: to help pay for some of what medicare doesn't. learn how an aarp medicare supplement insurance plan, insured by united healthcare insurance company might be the right choice for you. a free decision guide is a great place to start. call today to request yours. so what makes an aarp medicare supplement plan unique? well, these are the only medicare supplement plans endorsed by aarp and that's because they meet aarp's high standards of quality and service. you're also getting the great features that any

medicare supplement plan provides. for example, with any medicare supplement plan you may choose any doctor or hospital that accepts medicare patients. you can even visit a specialist. with this type of plan, there are no networks or referrals needed. also, a medicare supplement plan goes with you when you travel anywhere in the u.s. a free decision guide will provide a breakdown of aarp medicare supplement plans, and help you determine the plan that works best for your needs and budget. call today to request yours. let's recap. there are 3 key things you should keep in mind. one: if you're turning 65, you may be eligible for medicare - but it only covers about 80% of your medicare part b costs. a medicare supplement plan may help pay for some of the rest. two: this type of plan allows you to keep your doctor - as long as he or she accepts medicare patients. and three: these are the only medicare supplement plans endorsed by aarp.

learn more about why you should choose an aarp medicare supplement plan. call today for a free guide. iredefined the wordng th'school' this year. it's why, at xfinity, we're committed to helping kids keep learning through the summer. and help college students studying at home stay connected through our university program. we're providing affordable internet access to low income families through our internet essentials program. and this summer, xfinity is creating a virtual summer camp for kids at home- all on xfinity x1. we're committed to helping all families stay connected. learn more at xfinity.com/education.

hi, everyone. it's 4:00 in the east. donald trump's utterances on coronavirus in the past four weeks has ranged from the bizarre, the fact that people should inject disinfectants into their bodies, to the statement, everyone who wants a test can get a test, and telling a white house reporter he was just being

politically correct wearing his mask to a briefing. but never before have they entered a phase of dangerously and flagrantly being defiant on the cdc's recommendations. it goes a long way of explaining president trump's lies about the pandemic. he has completely shut out dr. anthony fauci, one of the world's most respected experts on the pandemic. anthony fauci revealed today that he's been sidelined for two months. that's as the surge of cases in the south and west was put in motion in the trump campaign for early openings. fauci tells the financial times that he hasn't seen trump in person since june 2nd and he hasn't briefed him in two months. it's contradictions like this one in just the last 24 hours that may explain their estrangement. >> we're test and go creating.

it's the greatest thing that's happened for the opposite party, but we're going something to an extent and we're doing a great job. >> as a country, when you compare us to other countries, i don't think you can say we're doing great. we're just not. >> we're just not. and if it boggles your mind, as it does ours, as to why trump keeps saying things that are dm demonstrously false, the "washington post" says, the president has cast himself in the starring role of the blameless victim -- of a deadly pandemic, of a stalled he can

centric. >> i actually took one very recently when i was -- when the radical left was saying is he all there, is he all there? i proved i was all there because i aced it. i aced the test and he should take the same exact test. a very standard test. i took it at walter reed, a medical center in front of doctors, and they were very surprised. they said, that's an unbelievable thing. rarely does anybody do what you did. >> if he's trying to show us that he's still there, it's startling to show the mountain of evidence from science and medicine on the pandemic. the "washington post" also said this, quote, as the country enters a frightening phase of the pandemic with new daily cases surpassing 57,000 on thursday, the cdc, the nation's top public health agency, is coming under intense pressure

from president trump and his allies, who are downplaying the dangers in a bid to revive the economy ahead of the november 3 presidential election. the fact that the country is careening with coronavirus deaths is where we start today. we have practicing physician and former obama health policy director who worked on the h 1 n response. ashley parker, i quoted from two of those reports. take me through what you guys are reporting on the president's war with the cdc and his casting of himself as is so perfectly put there as the victim. >> sure. the president's war with the cdc has been going on for quite some time, frankly. one of the reasons they have now stopped with those briefings that started in the white house briefing room with first public health officials and then they were taken over by the president

himself and at campaign rallies is because he wanted to wrench the responsibility away from the cdc. they basically previewed for the country what has unfolded. she said she sat down with her young children and said, changes are coming, schools might be canceled, we might not be able to leave our houses. the president was furious and that was the first instance where he started to try to take control, and slowly there were ways insidiously, like private e-mails to scientists there, and in more public ways where we have seen the cdc sidelined. as for my story on the president casting himself as a victim, his outside's ego and sense of himself as a victim is nothing new. he always places himself squarely in the center of any action, which makes him think it's happening to him. but what's striking to us was the backdrop with which we're seeing this. there are 130,000 americans dead. there are more than 40 million americans out of work. and when we talk to people who

had talked to the president or called upon him, they said that even before the pleasantries and the basic ingredients, trump would enter into what was described as a woe is me preamble. he would say, can you believe this, i built the greatest economy ever, and then the pandemic came around and ruined it for me. now there a cop leaned on a guy's neck and now there's protests across the nation. he says things his allies try to curb because they know in this moment it's not a particularly good look. >> dr. patel, there is a line in ashley's piece of reporting today where an ally reportedly, i think, who remains anonymous basically says to him when a president is supposed to do in a crisis, which is to help lead the country through the crisis and, ideally, to a better place. i keep thinking over and over

again about 9/11. this is starting to feel like a whole bunch of 9/11s back to back. how do we turn this around without federal leadership or without a federal leader who listens to people like dr. fauci? he's literally doing podcast interviews and dot-com interviews to hopefully -- and we're trying to help -- get the public health message out. >> you're absolutely right, nicolle. this is not just back-to-back 9/11s, but we haven't had a federal leader who helps us gro grieve as a nation. you listen to ashley talk about it is numbers and it's astounding. as a doctor, that's what we do. we have to help people try to get through this and grieve. what we need to do is reset the conversation between scientists and -- unfortunately because we don't have a leader in the president -- all the other leaders who are looking for direction, state leaders, city leaders, local people. take away the politics of science and reset the dialogue.

the conversation about potentially having to close down the country again, if that's not serious enough to get everyone's attention, then we're doing something wrong, and clearly by our statistics, we still are. >> john heilemann, i cannot go one more minute here without addressing donald trump's disclosure about having his cognitive abilities tested. now, this is not like a, you know, 23andme that anyone can take it. how, why, who, what, where and when did donald trump have his cognitive abilities tested and then make that announcement on fox news? what? >> oh, nicolle, hi, how are you? i know you're dismayed. you're disgusted. you're baffled. you're boggled, right? it just never stops, right? it never stops, the insanity. the president went to walter

reed and there were questions raised about why he had gone to walter reed and that he went without telling the press he was going to go, and there are still questions about that. we haven't reported that trip out. i don't know if it's the same trip, but that's the most recent trip, i think, that donald trump was at walter reed was that mystery visit when we all kind of scratched our heads about him being at walter reed. i don't know what that cognitive test would have looked like, tic-tac-toe, a jenga board? i don't know. but the admission that he had to get a cognitive test to prove to himself, to prove to the world, to prove to the doctors that he's all there. if he actually did it. i think there is no reason to believe this actually happened. he went to walter reed but we have no confirmation he actually took a test. but i think it's a statement of where he is right now mentally

and psychologically relative to this virus and relative to this race. we've heard him in the past, right, say in a bragadocious way, i have a great mind, i have a great brain. he's said those things before. but to make a claim that he has some scientific evidence and then turn it on joe biden, i know we say over and over again there is no bottom, but this is a particular type of tragic low point in the administration when a president is boasting about passing some kind of test. and then, of course, the funniest thing about it, my doctors were amazed that i passed the test, they were just amazed. well, i'm sort of amazed, too. >> ashley parker, a two-part question for you. one, if you have any reporting on that mystery trip. i have to say this, after worked at the white house, it was mary madeleine's kind of tongue in cheek joke that there was health care available at the white house for staff all designed to

take care of you. you're working at burning the candle on both ends, but there is a lot of stuff you can do at the white house, and i was a mid-level staffer. senior staffers and the president have access to a whole bunch of tests. so the fact he was zipped off to walter reed on a saturday because he was bored never added up. do we know anything more about that trip? >> so that trip, as john said, still remains fairly shrouded in mystery, but we do have more reporting on that test. this is a test that he took as part of his routine physical every january. the test is meant to detect early signs of cognitive disability, like early signs of dementia or alzheimer's. and the test, you can look it up online, i can't remember the exact name now, but i think it's the montreal something test. but you can look it up and

things the test forces you to do is draw hands on a clock, identify different animals. they're given a list of five words and they have to remember them and repeat these words back. it is a test that no individual should have any problem passing, unless they do have, for instance, dementia or alzheimer's. and we had reported a couple weeks ago, and this is about the president always saying like he did to sean hannity, but the president in the oval office with aides a couple weeks ago was bragging again about how well he did on this test, saying again he wanted to challenge joe biden to it, and he bragged to these aides in private that he had remembered all five words and quoted them back. i was watching "hannity" last night, and i said, gosh, this is exactly what people said that were present in that meeting, now he's sharing it with the nation. >> i don't even know what to say, ashley. i'm going to ask dr. patel to

tell us more about who takes these tests. i don't even know what to say. dr. patel? >> sure. it's a mental status exam that's a pretty detailed, general scale. and ashley is right, it has a number of components to it. we do administer it to people of all ages to look for -- it's the first test you administer in order to pick up anything that could be cognitively deficient in a patient. i'll be honest with you, while we've been talking about this, the reason the doctors were amazed is because they were probably thinking like i was, well, it would all be explained if we found something wrong with his brain, all these statements out of him. so i'm just in bewilderment that it is all normal. in all seriousness, it is something that doctors like myself uses in an initial screen, then if there's anything that flags positive. but to your point, nicolle,

that's something they could have done in the west wing. this isn't some complex test that requires different kinds of machinery. i've seen what's inside of the white house. they have all those resources there, so something still doesn't add up. >> john heilemann, i'd like you to tie these two things together. as ashley said, this was made in a hannity interview, and very similar to the rudy interview where rudy sort of springs it on hannity that he knows cohen was smuggling hush money to porn stars and whatnot. hannity seemed surprised. but there is a way that trump views medicine and science. in this world science is no good. it's a deep state product meant to sabotage his presidency. but if he's trying to tell the world that he aced a mental acuity test, which is all i can deduce from the comments on "sean hannity" last night,

science is the gold standard. >> right. well, as with everything, you know, trump's narcissism, which is, as we know, relentless, insistent, bordering on pathological, maybe over the bored into pathological, of course he's not just a nars c t narcissist. everything that benefits trump is valid, everything that doesn't benefit trump is invalid. that's status trump. i was picturing him in the oval office boasting, they had five words and i remembered all five of them. it's as if it's an iq test and being able to remember dog, pony, that five words makes him a stable genius. i can't help but laugh and the only thing to do in these situations is to laugh to keep from crying. the thing he said last night

with hannity that worries me is not this. the thing he said last night with hannity is we started to go in on fauci. the fact he said last night that dr. fauci has made a lot of mistakes, i feel we've worried about this since march that at some point anthony fauci would be on the way out. the body language here and the things that trump is saying at this moment, the things he's saying out loud that he clearly felt about fauci for a long time but he's starting to say them out loud and that fauci is starting to find alternative avenues maybe approved, maybe not approved, to try to get his message out. saying things he must know are going to piss the president off to an extraordinary degree. i just can't imagine this is a relationship that has much longer to last and that's bad, bad news for the country if we lose anthony fauci. >> let me play that sound that you're referencing and give ashley parker the word in this segment. nobody go anywhere. let's listen. >> first of all, the mortality

rate, and dr. fauci is a nice man but he's made a lot of t mistakes. we have a mortality rate that is ten times better than any other. what we're doing is incredible. if you look, you've heard the numbers, tenfold. we have fewer people dying and our people have done an incredible job. >> ashley? >> there are so few arbiters of truth in this administration, and especially in this pandemic. and i think that's one of the reasons, as john was saying, so many people have turned to anthony fauci as a voice who they can trust, who has continued to be honest and to turn back to the science, often to his detriment. so the president doesn't like that. we are seeing him marginalized, but i do get the sense there would be a revolt in the scientific community, perhaps even the scientific community in the administration among medical professionals were fauci to be fully sidelined. so there is a lot of tension, but there may be hope for him

yet. >>. when we come back, states across the country facing another pressure campaign from the president on reopening. will some of these trump-aligned governors make the same mistake twice? plus, the president's physical state may be one of the reasons why people are not breaking with him yet. we'll go over all this coming up over all this coming u coming up , coming u -you're welcome. i love it. how'd you do all this? told ya! wayfair. let's talk dining tables. yes! blow it up.

♪ wayfair you've got just what i need ♪ a lot of folks ask me why their dishwasher doesn't get everything clean. i tell them, it may be your detergent... that's why more dishwasher brands recommend cascade platinum... ...with the soaking, scrubbing and rinsing built right in. for sparkling-clean dishes, the first time. cascade platinum. 49i found you! good job. now i'm gonna stay here and you go hide. watch your favorites from anywhere in the house with the xfinity stream app. free with your xfinity service. now any room can be a tv room. stream live tv, on demand shows and movies even your dvr recordings. download the xfinity stream app today

to stream the entertainment you love. xfinity. the future of awesome.

. the state doesn't meet the white house threshold for a recommended two-week decline in cases. >> is that a question or an

opinion? >> that's a question. >> you just made a statement. you didn't ask a question. what's your question? >> i'm getting to the question right now, sir. thank you so much. for those who say the move came prematurely, that this came too soon, can you tell me specifically what data you used to determine that this was the safest choice? >> i know it may be hard for nbc news to understand this, but all the data is publicly available on the public health department's website. as i've said before, i made those decisions in conjunction with dr. toomey and many, many other people following the data, and there is a lot of data that we're following. >> there's a whole lot of data now, but back on april 27, georgia governor brian kemp attacked our colleague and nbc news reporter for having the audacity to confront him with data suggesting that he was opening his state too soon and didn't meet all the federal guidelines. georgia, which was also one of the last states to close, reopened so fast that even trump and pence distanced himself from

his plans as he pressured every state to reopen too early and in defiance of the cdc guidelines. take a look at georgia's curve today. a 239% spike in cases since the day governor kemp attacked a reporter for asking about data. and it's not just georgia, sadly. florida's governor ron desantis, a noted trump ally who trump cheered and continues to cheer for swift moves to reopen his state. here's desantis back in april admonishing everyone warning about risks. >> in fact, there was an article in march in the miami herald that said this week in april, florida could see 465,000 people hospitalized throughout the state of florida. the reality, slightly more than 2,000. those predictions have been

false. our work is succeeding. we have flattened the curve. we did not go the way of italy, we did not go the way of new york city. in fact, we've done much, much better than either of those places. >> but you haven't. here's florida's curve today. a more than 1200% increase since florida reopened on may 4th. the stories are similar, sadly, in texas, arizona, alabama, states that cling to the president's message on fast reopenings, some of them openly praised by the president for doing so despite warnings from the cdc again that it was too soon. today the "new york times" says it point blank. quote, the current surge of coronavirus cases in the united states is being driven by states that were among the first to reopen their economies. decisions that epidemiologists warn could lead to a wave of infections. ashley, john heilemann and dr. patel are here.

dr. patel, i remember openings including tattoo parlors, beauty parlors, barber shops and praying that all the science was wrong, praying that that state would stay safe. sadly the science was right, and it's turning out to be right in all these southern and western states that are surging. >> that's absolutely correct. and i remember thinking, well, you know, we'll give it a two- to three-week period, and we saw cases rising but not exponentially. all you had to do, nicolle, as you did, was talk to people on the ground and they were starting to see more people coming into the hospitals, and that was a signal enough and the data itself started to reverse. however, we still haven't learned the lessons from new york and italy which have been beckoning, which is an adequate amount of testing, tracing and isolation. so we are not going to get past this first wave until we really tackle those efforts, and i worry that schools reopening

could compound some of that stress on these already stressed states. >> john heilemann, i think most of our conversations about the zombie-like state of today's gop under trump has focused on the republican senators who voted to acquit trump and his impeachment who either look the other way or greenlight all of his conduct, having no answers on bounties paid by the u.s. governors and whatnot. but trump's virus who doesn't have a twitter feed will taint the gop in the south and the west where they aligned themselves to trump for so long and have these death tolls and resurgences in these states to show for it. >> oh, my god, yes, nicolle. it's a huge thing. you think about these governors,

governor dusey in california, and the other three governors, all four of those states are full of covid-19. we see donald trump go low in the polls. the largest county in the country that donald trump won in 2016, the biggest county, maricopa county, the county that swallows up phoenix, one of the places that was one of the rare big metros that trump was able to pick up in 2016. he lost maricopa county. he's not been on an arizona poll all year. he's on the air trying to defend himself to the state of georgia. what does that do to the republican party when texas and georgia are in play, when

florida, the president's adopted home state, is slipping through his fingers. and the state where he won easily and now joe biden is up at double digits. you think about those governors and you think about what's happening on the ground in those states, these are states where the big division in the big cities were where democrats had dominated, places like houston and phoenix. but what's happening now, the suburban voters are looking at what's happening in the cities and they are seeing trump and their republican governor imperilling their states, and it not only hurts trump, but those governors when they run for re-election will be hurt. this is something that will hit

the sunbelt for generations. >> trump has said to reopen schools despite all the situations in the states. any pushback from the governors we were talking about? >> yeah, there's a ton of pushback. governors are saying what everyone is saying, that everyone wants the schools reopened the way everyone wants the economy reopened, which is safely and responsibly, and that may not be the way president trump is pushing for, which is all at once, typical back-to-school fall where you take a picture of your kid and you send your kid to a packed classroom of 20 to 30 students. but governors are saying they are going to trust the local health officials and local public officials. and what's interesting here is it's this rare reversal of federalism we're seeing from the president. this is a president, throughout the pandemic, that generally gave the responsibility to the states because he sort of didn't want to get blamed, but now he is saying it's actually not a

state decision, it is the federal government who has a blanketwide prescription for every single state in every single school district when their original pitch was that what is right for georgia may not be what's right for new york. it is kind of tough to square those two really opposing viewpoints. >> ashley parker, dr. kavita patel, john heilemann, three people i love talking to about anything. ashley parker, congrats to you and your colleagues on the remarkable body of reporting in today's newspaper. thank you all. >> thank you. next, president trump who got himself elected on attacks seems to have a hard time defining his opponent this time around. we'll try to figure out why that is, next. t why that is, next hey joshie... wrinkles send the wrong message. help prevent them before they start with downy wrinkleguard.

can it help keep us asleep? smart bed is on sale now. absolutely, it senses your movements and automatically adjusts to keep you both comfortable it's our weekend special, save up to $900 on select sleep number 360 smart beds. plus 0% interest for 48 months. ends monday. little things can become your big moment. that's why there's otezla. otezla is not a cream. it's a pill that treats plaque psoriasis differently. with otezla, 75% clearer skin is achievable. don't use if you're allergic to otezla. it may cause severe diarrhea, nausea or vomiting. otezla is associated with an increased risk of depression. tell your doctor if you have a history of depression or suicidal thoughts or if these feelings develop. some people taking otezla reported weight loss. your doctor should monitor your weight and may stop treatment. upper respiratory tract infection and headache may occur. tell your doctor about your medicines, and if you're pregnant or planning to be. otezla. show more of you.

so we collaborate ♪ ocean spray works with nature every day to farm in a sustainable way

for much of the presidential campaign, donald trump has sought to portray joe biden as anything from sleepy to senile

to sloppy, but nothing is sticking or resonating with the public yet. trump's attacks proved relatively successful in 2016. but as the "new york times" reports today, it's proving elusive this time around. they write this, quote, the kind of attacks that seemed so effective when he was a new to politics outsider in 2016 also appear to have less resonance coming from inside the white house. four years of tweets by mr. trump have numbed many voters. mr. trump is struggling to define joe biden to similarly devastating effect, a critical task at this stage of the presidential race. so when trying once again last night to hit tbiden on the topi of mental acuity, trump stumbled with showing his own mental stability. >> i actually took one very recently when i was, you know, the radical left was saying, is he all there, is he all there, and i proved i was all there because i aced it. i aced the test.

and he should take the same exact test, a very standard test. i took it at walter reed medical center in front of doctors, and they were very surprised. they said that's an unbelievable thing. rarely does anybody do what you just did. >> it's no proof they actually said that. joining our conversation now, reverend al sharpton, host of "politics nation" here on msnbc, and kimberly on station abr. rev, what makes donald trump go on national television and tell everybody he aced a mental acuity test which is given as an early screen for dementia? >> you know, what is concerning to me, being that he's the head of state, is that you have a man that calls himself a stable

genius. now he announces that he took this test about his cognitive skills, and he took it after the left wing said things about him stumbling and whether he was all there. first we need to even find out, did he go to walter reed hospital since then, because he said he took it at walter reed. you're beginning to wonder if he's really losing it, because if he did go to walter reed, did he have this test with the same kind of doctor that gave us his health records when he first went in that we found out this doctor may not have been all there? i mean, now you have a guy who, in reaction to the left wing, goes and takes a test on his own mental state, yet we can't get him to take -- pick up the phone and deal with things like safety in schools around covid and the george lawrence act and all.

but because the -- the george floyd act. but because of the left wing who he ignores on everything else said about him stumbling, he went to walter reed and took a test, and we're supposed to believe that. just like i have a bridge he can by that stretches from manhattan to brooklyn to go with the trump towers we planted in front of. >> i bet you can. i want to stick with what's in the public domain here. we're covering this story today because donald trump offered up to sean hannity that a little while back he aced a mental acuity test. kellyanne conway, i think, went on tv and smeared joe biden and he said he should take one instead of a covid test, something critically nasty from her. here's my question. why are they fighting on this terrain? why are they injecting this into

the conversation when all of the public evidence, we've got all these reports that he can't be briefed, we've got fauci revealing what i think is a bombshell revelation in the "new york times" today. it is a pandemic that takes the lives of some 130,000 american lives. he hasn't briefed the president in two months on the pandemic. he can't be bothered with the racial justice issues the rev is talking about. why do they want to have this conversation? >> it's a great question. i'm not totally sure why. obviously it gets to the opening part of this segment which is, what are they trying to brand joe biden as and why are they having such difficulty doing it? one of the themes they've gone back to time and time again is that joe biden is losing it mentally, he's senile, can't finish his sentences. of course, that effort to brand biden that way is dramatically

complicated by trump, you know, talking to him about his own cognitive test, but also saying things like maybe you should, you know, inject bleach. those things complicate any effort to brand your opponent. i think this is a broader problem trump is having right now, which is he is stepping on his own messaging. so, you know, one of the things they've been trying to do is accuse biden of being soft on crime, of shepherding these protests that would create great unrest in all american cities. simultaneously they said, look, the guy did the 1994 crime bill that locked up all these people. they're having some difficulty, obviously. today even the big theme is that joe biden plagiarized donald trump's plans. for weeks they've been saying joe biden is a radical leftist. are they saying he's a radical

leftist who is trying to play donald trump? one other thing i'll say about what can't go unremarked on is gender. with hillary there was a gender component that made it a lot easier for voters to brand her in certain ways than it is with biden. i think all of that is complicating his efforts right now. >> kimberly, i know we focus on hard news, on interviews by news makers, but i learned this to devastating effect when i worked on the sarah palin campaign. the most devastating thing that happened to sarah palin is when she morphed into tina fey. she used those very words in an interview with katie couric. it's one take, one window into how ludicrous trump is.

you almost start to see his face, and she's got a great one out for the ages on being cognitive. it's not a matter of finding the right insult for joe biden, it's a referendum on trump and his own competence at this point. >> i think that's absolutely right. i mean, one of the big differences, as you pointed out in the beginning of this segment, is that donald trump is not the outsider coming in trying to take down opponents by tagging them with pejorative names and identifying them to voters, really setting the agenda. he is the president of the united states. so that's a very different thing. also joe biden is very different. not just because of gender and the point sam made. he was in the white house for eight years as vice president.

it's very different from particularly the primary on january 15 where he was most effective at naming each one of his primary opponents. if they weren't known, they were not a national commodity. so donald trump and the campaign at this point is really scrambling trying to figure out what will stick. are we going to label him as mentally unfit? we've already seen an ad from the campaign, when you read the transcript the transcript wasn't full of complete sentences, and it was unclear of what test he was talking about and when. if i took a cognitive test, i probably wouldn't brag that my good outcome surprised the person who was giving the test. he sort of stepped on his own message here. it just shows how there is no real plan here to try to label joe biden, and joe biden is doing a good job in just extending how he's already been

known. america knows him and he's just showing that's exactly who he is. >> god, such good points, kim atkins. your punishment to all of you is you have to stay through for another block. still to come, the debate for army bases over confederate leaders seem to be trump and everyone else, including his own military. next. ding his own military next you can't predict the future.

but a resilient business can be ready for it. a digital foundation from vmware helps you redefine what's possible... now. from the hospital shifting to remote patient care in just 48 hours... to the university moving hundreds of apps quickly to the cloud... or the city government going digital to keep critical services running. you are creating the future-- on the fly. and we are helping you do it. vmware. realize what's possible. cindy crawford doesn't just walk the red carpet. she rocks it! and today, at over 50, she still steals the show.

even vogue magazine exclaims, "at 52, cindy still looks as good as she did at 25!" us weekly calls it "proof that cindy does not age" what's cindy's secret? meaningful beauty supreme! the groundbreaking anti-aging system that has kept cindy's skin looking so surprisingly youthful for so long. ellen pompeo when you see the pictures of cindy at age 31 and then now at 52, her skin actually looks more radiant now then it did then. so, you know... whatever she is doing, i'm down to try. announcer with meaningful beauty, frown lines appear diminished in just weeks! crow's feet are visibly softened, and under eye areas appear lifted. horizontal necklines appear dramatically diminished! blanche people definitely say, what are you using? and i say meaningful beauty. and they say, okay, well i guess i gotta go get some. announcer and now is the perfect time for you to experience meaningful beauty supreme because this special offer is cindy's best deal ever! normally $139 dollars, you'll pay only $49.95

for all five concentrated super treatments. and well even include free shipping. but hold on. order right now we'll add cindy's skin rejuvenating trio, over $90 dollars' worth of bonus extras, absolutely fre! you get the impressive dark spot correcting treatment. plus the amazing triple exfoliating treatment. and, cindy's incredible ultra lifting and filling treatment. april walker i'm about to turn 50 and people absolutely can't believe it. they say there's no way, there's no way. announcer meaningful beauty comes with a 60-day money back guarantee. take advantage of this amazing offer. only $49.95 for everything you see here. ellen pompeo these creams and serums are amazing. my skin appears firmer even a little lifted, that's a great feeling. announcer call 1-800-222-1177 or go to meaningfulbeauty.com right now! it was just a little over

one month ago that the trump administration cleared peaceful black lives matter protesters on lafayette square so the president could take a walk and a photo with a bible. his aide apologized for his participation in the stunt. trump has said his administration will not even consider renaming army bases named for confederate leaders, but that's not how general milley feels. >> we have to take a hard look at the symbology, things like confederate statues and bases and all that stuff. the confederacy, the american civil war was fought, and it was an act of rebellion, it was an act of treason at the time against the union, against the stars and stripes, against the u.s. constitution. and those officers turned their back on their oath.

>> wow. the rev, kim atkins and sam stein are still here. what do you think when you hear that? >> i think they're telling the absolute truth. they turned their back on the oath aside from the fact that the confederates were fighting to keep slavery and in many ways have racism and bigotry continue in an institutionalized fashion. i think that we've got to remember this was, as he said, treason against the united states. they were killing united states members of the military to overthrow the government. eventually john wilkes booth, one of their sympathizers, killed the president of the united states, abe lincoln, and we're honoring these people that booth and others followed? i think he made the point better than anybody. we're talking about treason here, and if you put it in that framework, how could any president in any way justify naming an army base or having a

statue named after people that committed and promoted and incited treason? >> general milley making news on the russian bounty story as well. here he is talking about protecting the troops. >> the issue is at the strategic level. what should or could we be doing at the strategic level? is there diplomatic of the sanctio sanctions, are there marches? some of that is done. are we doing as much as we could or should. perhaps not. some of it is quiet, some of it not so quiet. >> i was stunned to hear those words from general milley who testified on that protest. are we doing as much as we should or not? the national security concerns that a lot of people have, he

said it in authority of his position. >> two things stood out here. one, that he feels emboldened enough to say this. the trump administration is not full of people in that stature speaking out that forcefully in contrast to what the president'. there's sort of a meta thing that stood out, that russian bounty story which was seismic, it feels like it was a month ago. we are moving at such a warp speed here. coronavirus is obviously taking up so much oxygen, but it's tough to keep track of the scandals and quasi scandals happening around the administration. congress has a lot to get to. one of the things they can is try to do is figure out what's going on with this russian bounty program. we're running out of days for congressional kroefr side aover running out of time before the november election. >> after trying to weasel his way out of it, kimberly, defense

secretary esper announced he had also been briefed on payments. he said he didn't remember the word bounties but had been briefed on payments. this is not a story going away. sam's right, we don't spend as much time on it. it doesn't lead the newscast like it probably should, but it's not going away. i don't think the questions have been answered and i don't think they'll stop. >> no, i don't think they'll stop. to the extent there is an appetite on capitol hill when lauma lawmakers return to have hearings and see what happened. what i see in those statements is that they are saying and doing what they can, but at the end of the day, it's the commander in chief who is in charge with the response from this. the silence from the white house certainly in milley's statement, you can read between the lines that he was referring directly to the silence from the white house of any sort of response to the really appalling claim that

russians had bounties on the heads of u.s. troops. it's remarkable. >> we will all stay on it. the rev, kim, sam, thank you so much for spending half of the hour with us. we're grateful. still ahead, celebrating lives well lived. ll lived perfoe and comfortable, long-lasting protection. because your strength is supported by ours. depend. the only thing stronger than us, is you. and sometimes, you can find yourself heading in a new direction. but when you're with fidelity, a partner who makes sure every step is clear, there's nothing to stop you from moving forward.

it's not just a sandwich, far from it. it's a reason to come together. it's a taste of something good. a taste we all could use right now. so let's make the most of it. and make every sandwich count. with oscar mayer deli fresh

>> as a young boy i was condemned to be dead. to be murdered along with my entire family and including my 3-year-old little sister. one evil man, may his name be erased forever. the first chapter of what is truly an extraordinary life story. that was on the 75th anniversary

of the liberation of auschwitz. he was 10 years old when the nazis invaded what was then czechoslovakia. his family smuggled him to hungary but his mother and four siblings were snuck out of the camps. they created false identities for over refugees. he got caught, escaped and joined an underground force of refugees. he ended up living in the united states. he died of complications resulting from the coronavirus at the age of 91, but we encourage you this weekend to read a little bit more about his amazing brilife. >> we are also celebrating helen nez today. after a year as a nurse in arizona, she turned her attention to loving and raising

animals. her grand daughter said when she went to visit her grandmother in the hospital in the hospital all helen wanted to know how are the dogs? how about the sheep? how about the cattle? are they going to be fed? helen's greatest love was her family. she was their bedrock, the foundation, and she fought to keep navajo customs alived, passing down traditions. to honor her memory our thoughts tonight are with the entire navajo nation, a group particularly hard hit by the pandemic. that does it for our hour. thank you very much for letting us into your homes all week long during these extraordinary times. our coverage continues with chuck todd after a quick break. k helping to prevent gum disease and bad breath. never settle for 25%. always go for 100. bring out the bold™

i see all the amazing things you have been doing. you are transforming business models, and virtualizing workforces overnight. because so much of that relies on financing, we have committed two billion dollars to relieve the pressure on your business. as you adapt and transform, we're here with the people, financing, and technology, ready to help.

we're seeing our numbers