we're seeing our numbers increasing.

people are getting sicker and it's not just affecting the elderly and those with comorbid conditions, we're seeing patients who are otherwise healthy come in with pretty severe disease. >> a lot of younger patient population are showing up, getting admitted to the hospital, they're getting admitted to the intensive care unit. this disease has a long-term impact on your life and your loved ones lives. when you're in the hospital from covid, your family cannot visit. you're alone. >> that's such a hard and scary way to spend your time in the hospital. >> i understand that the general public, people that aren't in the health care, they don't see the things that we see, so they don't understand fully, but it's real. they need to wear your masks, you need to wash your hands. don't go into large gatherings. >> once again we begin the show

with sound from some of the medical workers on the front lines of this pandemic, as you saw mostly southern date lines. it is friday. as cases continue to surge in the united states, local officials in florida, arizona, texas and else where are sounding the alarm. in arizona, as cases and hospitalizations arrive, the phoenix mayor told me earlier today that one of the health care organizations had to call in freezer trucks because they ran out of room in their morgues. as bad as this week was with cases surging, prepare for the worst next week because things will get worse next week he said. florida today reported its largest single day increase in hospitalizations as it confirmed another 11,000 plus cases in one day. and the nation's top infectious disease expert, dr. anthony fauci, by his own admission now is admitting he's been sidelined as president trump criticizes his public health experts, threatens to pull funding from schools that can't reopen and

tries to convince the public to join him in a dangerous alternate reality where the experts are wrong and he's right. dr. fauci told the financial times i have a reputation as you probably have figured out of speaking the truth at all times and not sugar coating things. that may be one of the reasons why i haven't been on television much lately. the president is pushing a narrative that the u.s. is in control. fauci is warning the situation could spiral out of control. >> the current state is really not good. we're still knee deep in the first wave of this >> dr. fauci is a nice man, but he's made a lot of mistakes. i think we're in a good place. i disagree with him. dr. fauci said don't wear masks, now he says wear them. he said numerous things. >> as a country, when you compare us to other countries, i don't think you can say we're doing great. we're just not. >> now we're open and we want to stay open and we will stay open. we're not closing. we'll put out the fires as they come out.

i call them embers, fires, whatever you want to call them. >> this virus to our dismay is spectacularly efficient in transmitting from person to person. so that makes me skeptical whether we would get permanent sustained control of this without a vaccine. >> we have a mortality rate, think of this, that's tenfold better than any other -- what we're doing is incredible. if you look, you've heard the numbers, tenfold. we have fewer people dying. >> it's a false narrative to take comfort in a lower rate of death. there's so many other things that are dangerous and bad about this virus. don't get yourself into false complacency. >> and with regard to the president recently claiming that 99% of cases are totally harmless, dr. fauci said this,

i'm trying to figure out where the president got that number. what i think happened is someone told him that the general mortality is about 1%. he interpreted, therefore, that 99% is not a problem when that's obviously not the case. president trump is in florida today visiting a region which is one of the hottest of hot spots in the country. but he's not there to talk about the virus. he's instead focusing on immigration and venezuelan politics. joining me now is carl lee and with us from miami-dade county, florida is dasha burns. fauci versus trump has been an ongoing under the radar back and forth that i have felt that at times the white house has tried to make sure -- no, no, no, they're not feuding, they don't disagree. that seems to be over. >> that's gone. >> that's over, right? >> that's definitely gone.

>> and i think what you're seeing -- >> what is the state of the task force? >> the task force is still -- they meet, and they're actually briefing more publicly than they have been in the previous month or two, but dr. fauci is not really among them. you know, he's not at these briefings and typically in the same -- to the same extent that other members of the task force are, at least publicly. and he's -- his differences with president trump are now just fully out in the open. this used to be something that white house officials would talk about quietly, and they would say, you know, they wanted to try to keep fauci off of television, and at places on television where the president might not see him, but fauci is appearing on livestreams or at the coronavirus hearing today where he said the united states is having a real problem which is in contrast to what the president was saying, that we're in a good place.

it's not just him, dr. birx was at that same conference and said the mortality rate, while it's going down is expected to go back up because of the cases we're seeing across the country. so this tension that was kind of quiet and the president found fauci annoying has really escalated in the last few weeks. i think that's because the president really just wants to move on from this, really is feeling like he just wants to deliver the message and then any time anyone remotely undercuts him, they're disloyal and eventually, you know, when you have experts who are there to tell you what the facts are, they're going to get on the wrong side of a president who wants to spin the facts in the most positive direction. >> this also seems to be like he's asking for more political problems, not less here. i want to put up these polling numbers on trust for information on covid-19, the cdc, dr. fauci, donald trump. the cdc, 77% people trust the

cdc for covid information. 67% say they trust dr. fauci, 26% say they trust president trump. one can't help but wonder -- i heard the president express this wondering dr. fauci works for me, his good poll ratings should be my good poll ratings, is this his beef with fauci? fauci is getting too much credit? >> it does not help those sorts of polls. when the president sees things like that and others as getting better polls or better coverage or anything in that vain, he doesn't like it. early on you could tell -- it's one of the tells when the president is tiring of somebody, he says all right, such a celebrity now, it sounds like a compliment but it's not, it means he's frustrated with you and that he doesn't like you getting so much attention and he's getting less. but there's also a dispute,

chuck, going on even within the president's own team, outside of the health experts. there are some who think that the health experts and the coronavirus task force should be out there in front more, that that's the right messaging and the right posture that the white house should have. then there's those who are more in line with the president who just want to kind of not focus on that and emphasize on the economy. so some people are advocating for people like fauci to be out there more, and others are trying to pull them back. it's not just between the president and some other experts, it's a difference between his own team. >> this contradiction of the president traveling to a covid hot spot, let me go to dasha, she's been with the president today in doral, florida, and miami-dade county. this is the hot spot state in the country right now for the virus. miami-dade county the hot spot. the president didn't have any virus focused events. how much did he even talk about

the virus today? >> yeah. chuck, that's absolutely right. just no covid-related events today whatsoever on his schedule. he barely mentioned it today at all. mostly touting the successes. what he did seem to be trying to do today, though, instead is focus on some of the strengths, focus on some things that are going well for him. so he went to southern command today to preview a counter narcotics operation near central america, touting some successes that the administration has had when it comes to drug trafficking. he came here to this church behind me to meet with a group of venezuelan american voters, a critical voting block here in miami-dade and florida, and they, unlike some of the -- when you look at the national latino vote, it does tend to lean left. here in miami, that's a different story.

there's a lot of political diversity here, particularly when the venezuelan community that does tend to lean more conservative and independent. and they have been fairly supportive of the president. they see him taking a harder line with the maduro regime. we got a little bit of a peak peek into the trump campaign strategy, tying joe biden with aoc and bernie sanders. >> there's no doubt that democrats will tell you that the "s" word probably cost them the governor's race in 2018, just in miami-dade county alone. when say the "s" word, socialism. carol lee, i have a source telling me the roger stone commutation is done, imminent, it's about to happen.

we've been hearing this all day. the chatter is loud. commutation is what i've heard is going to be on the table. what are you hearing? >> the same. oov even roger stone said that himself. we are hearing people around the president who think they agree that he will probably do this if roger stone has to report to jail on tuesday there are people around the president who think that's politically a bad move for the president. they know they probably can't stop him. >> well, we'll be watching. carol lee, dasha burns, thank you. joining us now is dr. michael osterholm. you have said countless times to me, 60% to 70% of this country will get this virus. this is the reality of this situation. but the folks that run the federal government didn't necessarily believe this

reality, yet here we are, all of the predictions may have had what month, what state would be a hot spot wrong in, beyond that here we are. is there any way to turn this around? >> actually, there is. that's the challenge, i think, that's before us. this is only in part a decision that the virus is going to make. some of us, our own ability to make a decision, that is are we willing to really clamp down again, shut down in the way we did in march in these states with these high levels of transmission and then get the virus under control, get it to one or two cases per 100,000 population per day and then we can do what the rest of the world has done, whether in asia, europe, canadian colleagues, look where they're at today. they're managing this on a day-to-day basis without having a complete lockdown economy or by having their intensive care units overrun. it's up to us. will we decide to do this or not? >> right. it seems as if we're back into

the same place. arizona has testing issues. running out of ppe. it was understandable the first time we got hit. though we had a debate about whether we should have been more prepared. how are we here now three months later? >> well, you know, i think somehow we thought that we could basically win an argument with this virus. and we now know we can't. we have to deal with it. you heard me say on this very show, you know, we're not driving this tiger, we're riding it. the way we're going to end up, i think, maximizing on our overall safety, our health, our economy is getting it shut down once and for all, coming back slowly and gradually, much like new york is doing and the rest of the world and then living with it until we get a vaccine. that still means we'll have cases, but not that many. we'll have challenges and time to time having to put the brake on harder, take it off a bit. but we won't be in this

situation. chuck, one of the numbers i think that should be sobering to the american public, this month we will pass over 1,000 health care workers in this country who have died from this virus. many of them were acquired at work. 1,000. think of that if this were soldiers or if this were law enforcement, what we would be saying. we are now running into a situation where we have even less protective equipment for these people. we're running into intensive care units where they're almost like m.a.s.h. units going on day after day after day and running short of employees. we can't keep this up. we can't. we have got to understand we have got to lock this thing down and deal with the cost of it, but we have to do it. >> neither -- it doesn't appear the governors of florida and arizona have any political will to do that. if they don't, what does the fall look like? does it make opening schools and

universities impossible? >> i think it does. let me give you one more sobering number. you mentioned early on that i have been sharing with you that maybe 6% to 7% of the population has been infected to date. that number is about 7%, 8% today. we'll have to get to 50% or 60%. if you want to know what it will take to infect 160 million people, which is half our u.s. population, even just looking at the clinical cases, not all the infections, that is about 52,000 to 58,000 cases a day every day for the next 365 days. every day. are we going to decide that's what we'll accept? we can't. so it's time for us to come to some recognition that, you know, politics aside, economics, we have to deal with the pain and suffering that some people will experience. we have to help them out as a government. we have to decide this is not

the course we can sustain. it just isn't. >> by the way, you said that the first shutdown obviously it worked in the northeast, but it didn't really work everywhere else. should we be thinking of this as a national shutdown or, you know can we do this regionally? >> i think we can surely do it regionally. i think new york, connecticut and new jersey proved that to us. i have to give them great credit. i was asked by governor cuomo to be one of two people that reviews every time that a decision is made in new york to open up the economy a bit more, i get all the data sent to me in this most comprehensive dashboard, number of tests done, people in the hospital, icu care, it's remarkable. they're opening up according to what they have prescribed as a way for them to still control the virus.

it's a fine dance with the virus. they're going to have their flair-ups and they're doing it. they have demonstrated they can do it. the rest of the country can do it, too. >> can be scaled? >> absolutely. that's what the rest of the country has to recognize. we can do this. i don't think we have an option but to do it. the tragedy of what we're seeing this week -- think about this. when we were at 20,000 cases a day, we thought oh my, this is horrible. then we got to 40,000. we thought 20,000 wasn't so bad. now we're at 60,000. before long we'll be at 100,000. when are we going to finally say we have got to understand, you know, being in an argument with this virus, we have less chance of winning that than arguing with 2,000 cranky, tired 2-year-olds. we have to deal with this virus. the way we'll have to do it is shut down again and bring it back gradually. that's the only answer. it's not a partisan answer.

that's a public health answer. >> i know. i think everybody wants an easy answer and an easy solution. i think you're reminding folks this is not going to be easy. but there is a solution. we have to sort of, you know, strap up. pick up our boot straps. >> many years ago -- thank you. >> go ahead. finish up. >> many years ago there was an old commercial on tv for an oil filter, it said pay me now or pay me later. i'm just telling the country right now, we pay now or we will pay later. >> yeah. hopefully more and more people will continue to listen to your advice on this. thank you for coming on and sharing your expertise. that number of health care workers that we're at, 1,000 front line workers that have died from this virus. that's an important stat. up ahead, it's not april but it feels like it when it comes to this virus.

we're dealing with all the same problems just in different places. we'll head to coronavirus hot spots that don't have enough hospital beds, tests, or personal protective equipment. later as president trump urges schools to open with watered down safety protocols, what should be the prlan to get america's kids back to class? it's an open question and we'll ask president obama's former education secretary for his prescription. his prescription usaa is made for what's next we're helping members catch up by spreading any missed

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welcome back. as we've been saying it's deja vu all over again as conditions in coronavirus hot spots across the united states repeat what we saw in the tri-state area and the northeast, new york, connecticut and new jersey earlier this spring. the very same problems we experienced at the start of this pandemic are here now and it's no longer the beginning. our reporters are covering this

deja vu again. a new saliva test is coming on board tomorrow, this which hopefully relieve some of the testing crunches. let me start with vaughn in arizona. if you thought the heat was going to kill this virus, i believe the high where you were was supposed to be 118, and that virus is not dead. >> usually i would invite you and anybody else to come out here for the weekend, but i don't think anybody has any interest. i think one place where you will see folks is testing locations, including zonearizona state

university's new saliva test. this is a situation where the state continues to expand its testing capabilities. right now you have a percent positive rate of over 30%. most stokes are showing up to the hospitals already sick and symptomatic. right now the state is only showing folks who are symptomatic and sick to get tests, which makes it hard down to pin down where the hot spots are occurring. this upcoming week the state announced that hhs with the cdc will be opening up their very first highway volume testing centers. they'll have two locations. which is welcomed news here in the state. they're planning to process about 5,000 tests a day. this is the first federal testing facility on a wide high-scale level that will be coming into the state despite us being two months into this growing surge here.

>> vaughn, you've been on top of this with arizona from the start. i think my guess is that at some point arizona health officials will be asking you for where things are headed. let's move over to joe friar. california is not a state that reopened too soon. it's not a state that has not been following guidelines, yet the virus is surging there what are you seeing? >> i was talking with the l.a. county public health director about that the other day, and it's hard to put a finger on why that is, but a lot of it is about human behavior. a lot of hospitals tell us they feel supplies of ppe are sufficient. there are some hospital chains and states who feel they're doing okay with protective equipment, but think of all the businesses trying to reopen right now, the american medical

association says there are doctor's offices and clinics that were closed during the pandemic and are now trying to reopen and that they've been having a hard time getting their hands on ppe. there was a non-profit started in march when we were seeing those major shortages in the new york area, they were working on getting their hands on that equipment and get it to the facilities and the workers who need it most. now the organization is saying they're seeing a huge demand in people who want to get their hands on ppe. so that's a big issue. a lot of people are saying perhaps the president should encoke the defense production act to create more of it. right now no inclination that the president plans to do that. right now the president said ppe is strong here in the united states. >> joe with the latest in california. thank you there. let me go to garrett.

i feel like we're seeing a tone shift in the governor. governor abbott, there's no more happy talk, he is blunt, and he is saying as bad as this week is prepare for next week. we got a glimmer of hope today from a doctor in houston who said there's some indication that maybe there's some plateauing in the hospitalizations. >> the best news i can give you from texas is that the news we had from the start which is the hospital capacity in the state of texas is massive. so even as those numbers get pushed higher and higher, there does remain some capacity in the larger hospital systems. basically all the other news is bad. the testing numbers are off the charts with positive cases. another day with around 100 deaths. that's three days in a row where we're five deaths of 100. a record high for the state. the governor has been trying to get people to focus on his mask

order, his mandatory mask order across the state. he said it's the only way to prevent another lockdown. this is what he told a television station in lubbock today. >> the deaths we're seeing announced today and yesterday, which are now over 100, those are people who likely contracted covid-19 in late may. remember, this massive spike occurred in the speck or third week of june. so -- that's what led to this massive increase in hospitalizations as well as people going to icu units. actually the worst is yet to come as we work our way through that massive increase and people testing positive. >> a soaperi erisobering warnin wear your mask and help protect the health care workers like paramedics, they're getting worn down from call after call. sometimes they know it's a covid

call, sometimes they have to treat it that way. there's enormous strain on the front line workers in this state. >> you know the politics of this state well. i'm curious, greg abbott is talking pretty much the opposite way of his lieutenant governor when it comes to dealing with this virus. is there going -- how is abbott's mask order playing politically on the right? >> i will say mask compliance is certainly higher in texas now than when i was here for the entire month of april. when abbott you about tput that you should see the comments he got on his social media, he was called a traitor, saying he sold out to the libs. at the end of the day abbott is responsible for governing the state, lieutenant governor patrick is mostly responsible for speaking on television. you can see the difference there

in how they approached this. >> quite the trio giving us these on the ground reports in these troubling hot spots in the sunbelt, thank you all. up ahead, the many open questions about how to get kids back to school and to do so safely. and later, our friethis ele this is not a wave, it could be a tsunami building. we'll look at the changing electoral map as the paths to a trump victory are getting more narrow. step onto the blue line, sir. this device is giving us an accurate temperature check. you're good to go. i have to take care of my coworkers. that's how i am. i have a son, and he said, "one day i'm gonna be like you, i'm gonna help people." you're good to go, ma'am. i hope so. this is my passion. if i can take of everyone who is sick out there, i would do it in a heartbeat.

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what we do in the fall, if we go back to school in classrooms, whether we have friday night football, whatever you like do in the fall, it's going to depend to a great extent on what we do in the next 30 days. >> welcome back. that was republican governor mike dewine of ohio who was one of the first to close schools in his state at the onset of this pandemic. now he's asking each district in his state to put together a plan rather than going with a one size fits all approach and that's part of the problem when it comes to schools. another problem is president trump's pressure to bring school students back. this morning he said schools must be open in the fall, if not open why would the federal government give funding? it won't. several medical and education organizations are calling on experts to make the back to school decision, not politicians

releasing a statement that reads in part science should drive decisionmaking on safely reopening schools. public health agencies must make recommendations based on evidence, not politics. with us is a guy who has been on the local and national end, arne duncan. i want to start with the issue of what we're calling opening schools. nobody is disputing that schools need to reopen. the debate is virtual versus in-class. so if you were back in your old job in chicago, what would you be doing right now? >> talking to superintendents across the country all the time. everybody needs to have three plans. one is a plan to bring every child back to physical school, that's the most optimistic plan, frankly it's the most unlikely. the second plan is to have no one come back and continue in a virtual manner as we did in march, april, may and june. the third one is a hybrid situation, where you bring some

students back to the physical building some of the time but all students will be spending time on the virtual basis. i want to be so clear, schools can't make these decisions in a vacuum. they're not bubbles. what we do now in the month of july will help determine whether or not children have the opportunity to go back to schools in august. so we as adults have to make small sacrifices to give our children a chance to have a great opportunity in the next six weeks or so. >> i'm sure you saw this piece this morning that sort of went through how much money and resources each of these school districts need. i think i saw in georgia, for instance, they want to have extra bus monitors. that's a $300,000 expense. the other school districts may need to have double the size of that custodial staff, things like that. we know that state and local governments are just absolutely getting squeezed on money here.

these resources have to come from the government. how would you, if you were there, how would you be advocating for this? >> well, this is where the federal government has to step up. the fact that trump is talking about the opposite thing, talking about taking money away from school districts is just ridiculous. this has no interest in the wellbeing and health and safety of children. as you said, states and and state and local budgets are being crushed with property taxes, sales taxes down. the only place these additional resources can come from, whether it's bus monitors, safety shields, cleaning equipment, that money has to come from a federal investment. absent that, everything we say we want to do for children, we'll rob them of that opportunity. >> where do you come down on -- i heard dr. fauci the other day -- for instance, he said, you know, universities have an opportunity to create bubbles, so you can probably under

certain circumstances bring more kid back to campus. kids under the age of 12 it looks like we might be able to feel good about that. how would you be designing different -- looking at what we know now about this virus. would you be more aggressive on the younger end of getting kids back into school versus doing high school more virtually? how would you be striking this balance? >> you know, that's a complicated and really important question. let me say a couple things. i think we know it's harder for young children to do the virtual education, so if this is about a time of shared sacrifice, those students in high school -- and i have a high school child myself, they may have to do more virtually than our younger 4-year-old, 5-year-old, 6-year-old,7-year-olds. the level of complexity is beyond that. let me give you a couple different examples. you might have a teacher who due to their underlying health

conditions, that teacher cannot teach in a physical environment, has do all their teaching in a virtual manner. we have to accommodate that. you might have a child who is in perfectly good health but because they live or were raised by a grandmother, a grandfather whose health is more challenging, that child may never be able to come to school. we have accommodate that child's learning as well. finally you might have a child whose mom or dad or both are essential workers and they need to be in school every day because there's no one to take care of them. so we have to look at this, yes, at the district level but at the individual school level and then literally grade by grade, class by class. we have to do this through an equity lens. we have to do this in a way that takes care of the best interests of our children but also of our custodians, bus drivers, lunch room attendants, our staff. then our children's parents and grandparents at home. we have to balance these

equities as thoughtfully and compassionately as we can. >> that is a tall order in this political environment, i'm looking at my calendar again, it's july 10th. we are in the state of florida, they try to bring teachers back i think at the 1st of august. some schools start the second and third week of august. at this point, do -- what school system is prepared at this point? i feel like what you just described is an impossible task. i feel like we're headed for a school year where we'll have a third of kids around this country with another lost school year. >> i hope that doesn't happen. for all the lack of leadership, the devastating lack of leadership at the federal level, i'm unbelievably encouraged and inspired with my conversations with teachers and principals and superintendents. they will continue to figure this out together. to be clear, chuck, whatever plan we start with at the start

of the school year, that plan will have to change. people are working together, they're collaborating, problem solving, learning from each other's mistakes and successes. that local leadership gives me hope that people will continue to do the best thing for students and families educationally in terms of feeding them, in terms of children and staff mental and emotional health. we have to look at all of those things at the same time. >> i'm just curious, one quick question on university level opportunities. if there wasn't so much money connected to college football, would we have all of these seasons postponed already? is the reason the big ten announced a conference-only schedule for now because they're desperate to keep their revenue? >> i'm not the scientist, not the epidemiologist, when you look at what the ivy league did, they closed down all of fall sports, not just football, those are not schools that are

generating revenue from those sports. i do worry that money in those power five conferences, the big-time football conferences, i worry that money is going to influence how adults -- the decisions that adults make and the risk they put their student athletes and coaches through. if you look at the university of north carolina, their football team, they were having preseason workouts already, a couple dozen players got sick and they had to shut that down. if you look at what the ivy league did, that informs us of what higher education should do, as we think about knot just football but all sports at the collegiate level. >> it's hard not to look at some of these decisions in these power five conferences and not realize they're all worried nor about a bottom line. arne duncan, former education secretary during the obama years and superintendent of chicago public schools, different title there, but i appreciate you coming on. up next, a first look at an

exclusive interview with president trump. th president trump.

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president trump with jose diaz-balart on telemundo. this is his first interview on telemundo since the pandemic began. the president was asked a question which led to this exchange. >> i'm going to be over the next few weeks signing an immigration bill that a lot of people don't know about, you have breaking news, i'm signing a big immigration bill -- >> is this an executive order? >> i have a big executive order, i have the power to do it as president, i will make daca a part of it. we put it in. we're probably going to be then taking it out. we're working out the legal

complexities now. i will be signing a major immigration bill as an executive order, which the supreme court now, because of the daca decision, has given me the power to do that. one of thes a fekt s aspects of is daca. we'll have a road to citizenship. >> as an executive order, not as a congressional -- >> if you look at the supreme court ruling, they gave the president tremendous powers when they said that you could take in in this case 700,000 or so people. so they gave powers based on the powers that they gave, i'm going to be doing an immigration bill, one of the aspects of the bill that you will be happy with and that a lot of people will be including me and a lot of republicans will be daca. we'll give them a road to citizenship. >> like most things the president says on this issue, we'll have to see what he does on this executive order not what he says will be in it. the president talked about the pandemic, his stance on venezuela and other topics.

the interview will be worth your time. we'll be right back. ♪ ♪ now is the time to support the places you love. spend 10 dollars or more at a participating small business and get 5 dollars back, up to 10 times with american express. enroll now at shopsmall.com. ♪ ♪ we've always put safety first. ♪ ♪ and we always will. ♪ ♪ for people. ♪ ♪

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welcome back. what looked like a blue wave, could it be turning into a blue tsunami? that's how cook political report described it when they released the latest electoral college ratings. the math gives democrats 279 electoral votes if all of them come through. joining me now is charlie cook,

editor of the cook political report. and charlie, when i hear the word tsunami, i immediately think in my lifetime, 1980, then you go 64, maybe you go 36. is that what you're staring at in your crystal ball here in. >> well, i don't think anybody has a crystal ball but it looks like 1980 exempt that the movement away from an incumbent president started five months, rather than five days before the election. but we're seeing a lot of movement. the vase totally different from where it was in april or even five or six weeks ago. i was looking at something that the national conference of state legislatures put together today. north carolina mails out their ballot in 54 days. their first ballots is september 2. this thing is going the wrong direction for president trump.

i know you spend a lot of time every day talking to operatives, strategists, pollsters on both sides. they are taking this, i mean, we tried to be really cautious. particularly, this is really quite something. >> you know, i guess the real question that everybody is asking themselves, and he with won't know the answer until december, is trump past the point of no return. has he hit this katrina zone that george w. bush hit where it didn't matter, nothing broke through. there was this loss of trust and confidence and it just was gone. and he couldn't get it back. you don't know when you're there until after it's happen but do you get the expense that is what republicans fear the most? that it may be too late? >> the thing is his numbers have been almost impervious to

developments. they were never good. he never hit 50% but events, good or bad, just didn't move his numbers until april 1. and it was when the coronavirus and the handling of it and then it got compounded by george floyd. you just started seeing a completely different trajectory than we had seen for three and a half years. i never want to say it's too late but this is getting harder and harder. it's like watching cement set. it gradually gets firmer and firmer. >> so what does your senate map look like? >> well, that's changed a lot, too. the conservative side of me says 50/50 in terms of control of the senate. i think it is a little worse than that from where it was at

the beginning of the year. the big four are more vulnerable than they were. sally in arizona and collins in maine and tillerson, then now you've got two jormings and an iowa that are really, really online and potentially with the republican primary in kansas. so right now, a four-seat net gain is likely the most for the democrats. but five, six or seven are more likely than one, two, or three. >> all right. one quick, put you on the spot. give me a tsunami bellwether. what state goes blue, it would have to go blue and you would say there's your tsunami watchful. >> georgia, iowa, ohio. >> all of those, if it goes blue. yeah. okay.

>> those are -- those are indicators. thanks, chuck. >> fair enough. fair enough. i get that. well, it's getting late early, as yogi berra might say. great to talk to you. we'll be right back. y. great to talk to you we'll be right back. but we're all going at our own speed. at enterprise, peace-of-mind starts with our complete clean pledge, curbside rentals and low-touch transactions. with so many vehicles of so many kinds, you can count on us to help you get everywhere you want to go... again. whenever you're ready, we're ready for you. enterprise. i've been involved in. communications in the media for 45 years. i've been taking prevagen on a regular basis for at least eight years. for me, the greatest benefit over the years has been that prevagen seems to help me recall things

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that's all we have for tonight. we'll be back with more "meet the press daily." if it's sundays, it's "meet the press" on nbc. the beat starts now. good evening. >> good evening. good to see you. good to be watching you this summed as well. it looks like you have a lot to talk about. welcome to "the beat." i'm in for ari melber this evening. we begin with the country yet again hitting a single day record for new coronavirus cases, nearly 60,000 more americans diagnosed yesterday as the rift now deepens between donald trump and his own top scientists. "the new york s"