good evening, i'm chris jansing. thank you for joining us. political professionals usually use opposition research against their opponents. i mean, it's right there in the name. but tonight, in an extraordinary move, the white house is using it against one of its most visible team members. nbc news confirming the white house has gone beyond sidelining the nation's top infectious disease expert. now moving onto attempts to undermine his credibility. dr. anthony fauci you might have noticed was not on the sunday morning shows today. benched again. in favor of administration officials with a rosier view of how the u.s. fight against the coronavirus is going.

>> we're not losing the battle, but we're in the midst of it. >> definitely not losing. that came on a day when florida set a single day record of 15,000 plus cases. larger than any state has seen in a day including new york at the peak. with more than 3 million cases nationwide, there was this sunny assessment from the surgeon general. >> just as we've seen cases skyrocket, we can turn it around in two or three weeks if we can get a critical mass of people wearing face coverings, practicing six feet of social distancing. >> there was an attempt to dismiss the reality of the long testing lines we've seen in several major hot spots. >> actually in arizona, l fl and texas, the turn around time has improved over the last 30 days. >> but arguably, nothing could match the education secretary, betty devos failing to offer any

clear policy for schools following the president's marching orders they should be open or else. >> there's nothing in the data that suggests that kids being in school is in any way dangerous. the rule should be that kids go back to school this fall. the cdc never recommended that schools close in the first place. i think we need to be oriented around how do we do this? a flairup is different than a situation of something that hasn't happened. if schools aren't going to reopen and fulfill the promise, they shouldn't get the funds. then give it to the families to decide to go to a school that is going to meet that promise. >> you can't do that. >> again, there is nothing in the data that would suggest that kids being back in school is dangerous to them. >> coming up, we'll get reaction

to all of this from two of president obama's cabinet members, former health and human services manager and former education secretary. now, there are also growing indications that the virus is having a huge impact on the 2020 race. there's a new poll out in texas that has joe biden up by five points. let me reiterate, that's in texas. it's not the only red state we're seeing that. i'll talk to james carville about that later. i'm joined by jeff mason. jeff, always good to see you. let's start back with what you're hearing about dr. anthony fauci. by all accounts he was already being frozen out of the white house. this takes it to a whole new level. >> yeah. it does. i mean, i think all of that said, dr. fauci has maintained a sort of his own avenue toward the public and his own ability to continue to communicate despite the fact that he has not

been at least in the coronavirus task force briefings, the few that have happened over the last couple weeks and the fact that he wasn't put out on the sunday shows. he's made clear he doesn't like these types of stories. he wants to do his job and have an impact on the president. it certainly does seem from the reporting and also from evidence he's been sidelined, certainly from the ability to speak for the administration. >> for the first time yesterday donald trump did wear a mask yesterday in public. he had seen a photo of him before. this was an orchestrated event. you found yourself in the middle of a mask incident in may. i want to play a clip of that to remind folks of what happened. >> well, we're seeing cases rise. we can see cases go down just as

quickly if the american people will do things that slow the spread q including wearing a face covering. >> co-you take it off? i can't hear you. >> i'll speak up. >> because you want to be politically -- >> no, i want to wear the mask. >> you had the president asking you to remove your mask. so yesterday the president wore a mask. only at walter reed. not at the white house. the surgeon general today said that early guidance not to wear a mask is like when we prescribe cigarettes for people with asthma and leeches and cocaine and heroine for people as medical treatment. what's going on with the mask policy? >> well, it's a great question. i mean, i think the surgeon general is conceding that the advice and guidance that the administration gave at the beginning was off with regard to masks.

and i recall being on a trip with the vice president and dr. birx shortly after she became cord nay of the task force. we visited a factory, and she said then that people didn't need to be wearing masks. the difference is they were worried about americans flocking to purchase masks at a time when there wasn't enough for health professionals. that's changed and so has the science. but the president up until yesterday refused to wear one in public aside from what you mentioned at the time when he was at i think a ford factory, and then was photographed in it but didn't wear the mask in front of us. yesterday he did. it was deliberate to get a picture. that is a shift for this president. i think the bigger question is does he do it again? does he wear a mask when he's

not at a hospital? does he wear a mask at a rally? the president and his campaign are under pressure for the fact that some of the big events he has continued to hold have left a trail of people getting the virus in its wake. there's political risk there and this was certainly a shift that he put one on yesterday. >> is there any indication of what happened behind the scenes to cause the shift, jeff? >> you know, i think that what i've read and heard so far is that advisers were pushing him to do this. that they are concerned about the fact that, for example, after the rally in tulsa, oklahoma, the number of cases of coronavirus, the number of cases went up after. it could be a shift in messages. we remember when the vice president visited mayor clinic and did not have a mask on, that led to a great deal of negative press coverage.

the president was visiting a hospital yesterday. it's different in terms of he was going into a place where masks are the norm. that said, it's also different than he let people see him with the mask on. that could be a shift. >> yeah. jeff mason, always good to see you. thank you so much. we're joined by the former health and human services secretary. always good to see you. help me to understand a situation under which an administration takes an active role, an active role in ruining the reputation of a member of that administration and specifically the top infectious disease expert in the midst of a pandemic. what's your take on this? >> well, i find it just horrifying. first, let me clarify something that you said. dr. fauci was at the nih years before donald trump came to the white house, and he'll be there for years after.

he is not only renowned in this country can but he's the world's expert on infectious diseases and vaccines. i think it's horrifying, but it's also standard for this administration to discard any information that they don't like. to not pay attention to experts. to not listen to people who know more than they do about various aspects of whether it's health or the economy, and in this case, it is dangerous. tony fauci is giving honest answers to questions that the public is desperate to know. how to stay safe. how to conduct business. should our kids go back to school? what should happen next? and the white house because they disagree with the public health information, because they disagree with the information he's giving, the only thing they can do is try to silence him, and now are trying to discredit

him. it is really shocking and dangerous. >> yeah. because trump can't directly fire dr. fauci. as you point out, he's served in government for more than 50 years. he has strong bipartisan support in congress. they're not giving him access to the president or the oval office, although he has suggested he hopes his messages to the president are getting to him. do you really think that without this ability to connect directly with the american people who for months were looking to him and trusting him for the latest information, that this is going to have a devastating effect on getting this killer coronavirus under control? >> well, i think it's already having an effect. we have a president who refuses to follow guidelines. cdc puts the guidelines in mid april. very clear guidelines about how businesses can reopen.

the following day, the day after april 16th, on april 17th the president begins to tweet about liberating michigan, minnesota, liberating virginia in direct contradiction to his guidelines. we now have five times more disease than we did in april. we have 3.the 2 million people. we've gone from 31,000 deaths to 134,000 deaths and know the president is doing the same thing, berating educators, terrifying parents, demanding schools reopen in spite of the fact that disease is out of control. we don't have any models to follow from other countries because we're doing worse than any country in the developed land on getting a handle on this virus. school opening, labor day is eight weeks away. unless we do something other than demand schools open, they need guidance and they need

resources. we need more space, not less. more personnel, not less. there's no parent or teacher in the country who doesn't want schools to reopen, but the health and safety of our children and the teachers and school personnel has to come first. it does this everybody but the president. >> so that leads me very well to your former colleague in the obama administration, former education secretary arnie dunkin'. thank you for joining us. the current education secretary said this when she was asked this morning if schools should follow the cdc guidelines. >> doctor redfield has clearly said these are recommendations. and every situation is going to look slightly different. and the key for education leaders and these are smart people who can figure things out, they can figure out what is going to be right for their specific situation. >> as the secretary of education, should schools follow the guidelines of the cdc. >> kids need to get back to

school. they need to get back in the classroom. >> secretary duncan, when she was pressed, she would not say simply follow the guidelines. so what's a school, an administrator, teacher, what's a parent supposed to think? >> follow the guidelines. she's parroting what her toss said. he's not interested in the safety of children or parents or teachers. she's not going to be either. yes, we have to follow guidelines. let me be really clear. the goal here is not just to open schools. it's to keep schools open, and the worst thing would be if we open schools for a week or two or three weeks and have to shut it down. that would be more traumatizing to kids we're trying to bring normalcy to right now. >> you co-authors an op ed and outlined eight guidelines for

schools. give us some ideas of the things that you and other experts in the field agree on. >> well, first of all, schools aren't bubbles. they're not islands. if we want to have a chance at opening schools in august, we have to start to reduce cases in our communities across the country now. where we see cases skyrocketing, that's going to make it very difficult if not impossible to open up. but in terms of schools, simple things. wearing a mask. thinking a lot about how you keep the schools clean. thinking about the flow of the day, whether kids are coming to school monday, wednesday, friday, tuesday, thursday, saturday, morning shifts, afternoon shifts. whatever it might be, we'll probably end up in a hybrid situation. first and foremost, the safety of our children, their parents, teachers, administrators, kus toez yans. that has to dictate what we can and cannot do. >> i'm sure you hear it all the time. i do. i don't know anybody who doesn't hear it from parents and teachers and administrators that

this is just such a terribly fraught time. i want to play you what a teacher from florida told me yesterday on this program. >> right now is it selfish that when i look at these pictures i'm reminded of all the teachers and students and staff members who have been shot in school shootings? that's what it remind me of. i'm not in the military. those are the bravest people putting their lives on the line. we're teachers. we're not front line soldiers. it's not fair to treat us that way. >> she was looking at this rundown of photos of educators who died from covid-19, and to hear a teacher talk about being on the front lines like she's fighting a war. is that where we are? sending kids and teachers into school where we're figuring it out as best we can? >> well, i think tragically,

right now our country, we're fighting two pandemics. we're fighting the virus and doing that very poorly. particularly in places like florida where the governor has not done what's right to keep people save, and there's a pandemic of gun violence. i've said it before, i'm convinced we value our guns more than our children in this country. the fear and trauma that children are dealing with, teachers are dealing with, parents are dealing with, it's not right. it's not fair. it doesn't have to be this way. if we did what made sense to keep our communities safe from the pandemic, we refuse to do those things and we're paying an extraordinarily high price right now for that. >> secretary in state after state the situation is worsening. but today the surgeon general who echoed to some extent what we've heard from the president about the coronavirus simply going away, he said we could

turn thing around in two or three weeks. really? >> well, again, i think the trajectory of cases rising in 33 states across the country and some as you say florida, texas, arizona, are hitting all-time records. i wish it were that simple. i think we could begin to turn it around if we take immediate and pretty substantial steps to remit gait the virus rise. that may mean shutting down places. it may mean closing bars. locking down restaurants again. asking people to go outside, stay away from others in indoor spaces. asking the president to stop having events without social distancing and no mask. he's done it indoors and outdoors as recently as last week. i think his willingness to wear a mask in a hospital is

certainly a step from michael pence refusing to do that at the may may owe -- may owe clinic. but co-vid patients are dying by themselves. hospital mask wearing is not the issue. it's are we willing to say across this country, everybody should wear a mask if you can't be more than six feet apart, period, the end? >> kathleen and arnie, it's great to have both of you on the program. thank you for taking time out of your sunday night. we appreciate it. >> we want to go to breaking news out of san diego. an explosion aboard a u.s. naval shape injured 17 sailors and four civilians. look. smoke billowing. it was just intense a short time ago. everyone is now off the ship and accounted for. nbc's steve patterson joins us. i mentioned the explosion. what else can you tell us about this scary scene?

>> the good news is everybody is accounted for. the 17 sailors, four civilians all sustaining according to the spokes people who are handling this, minor injuries, being treated in the hospital for those minor injuries. this was a three alarm fire accompanied and confirmed by the fire department starting off with an explosion. that happened at around 8:30 this morning. the first alarm, second alarm by 9:00. third alarm by 9:50. the crew member who is normally operate the ship are trained in fire deterrent as well as the fire department that was nearby. so them working together got the fire under control in about four hours. as you mentioned, it has been spo smoking on and off for at least four years. sometimes thick black smoke. the biggest danger now is to the other ships docked there. mainly the u.s.s. fitz jirld and u.s.s. russell. both moved out to sea away from that ship that is on fire. and the chief, the fire chief

there in san diego says that this thing could be on fire for at least the next couple days on and off. they want to make sure that scene is secure. this is normally an amphibious assault ship. not known to be carrying explosives. usually it's light munitions with helicopters and troops. it was there for maintenance. the cause is kind of being determined at this point as they're just working now on still getting this fire under control as they may be for the next few days. again, the good news, everybody accounted for. no serious injuries. >> steve patterson in california for us. thank you so much. coming up, president trump, the growing fallout from his decision to commute roger stone's sentence. and how lindsey graham is back in the middle of this. we have the latest. latest

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the #1 fastest-growing men's health brand at walmart. more than a year after democrats asked for it, senate judiciary chair now says he will grant the request to have robert mueller testify before the committee. it comes on the heals of mueller's scathing op ed breaking his silence to criticize trump's decision to commute the prison sentence of roger stone. let's get more on this from joyce vance and anita kumar. great to see both of you. anita, why is lindsey graham doing this? >> i think there's a couple reasons. remember, lindsey graham has already opened an investigation

into the origins of the russia investigation so that was already out there. he hinted last month he might invite robert mueller or someone on his team to come forward. perhaps this op ed that robert mueller wrote got a little bit under his skin. and he thought okay, let me call him in. but remember, it was only a few days ago that president trump who was upset about rulings at the supreme court that were unrelated criticized lindsey graham and said he wasn't go far enough, wasn't doing enough to look into that information, to look into the obama administration, to -- when which he says eavesdropped on his campaign and he has allegations. he was critical a few days ago and urged senator graham to do more and here he's trying to do more. >> joyce, is there something you think is useful about hearing from robert mueller at this stage? like, i don't know, 14, 15 months after he was first after

democrats first wanted to hear from him? >> you know, mueller says it best in the piece that he wrote for the washington post where he says, our investigation should speak for itself. and then he's forced to go on and talk about the bonn parts of the investigation and what a central part roger stone was. mueller has said his piece. as you point out, there is very little he can add to the conversation. certainly lindsey is not doing this for a legitimate purpose to further any kind of an investigation. >> yeah. anita, clearly bill barr mean time wanted it out there that he did not want this commutation to happen and he was not alone in the white house? >> you're right. there were a lot of people in the white house and the trump campaign that didn't think the president should go this route. now, it was less about the specifics of the case and more

about worry about sort of what the political consequences were. was he going to get criticized? was there going to be blowback? someone saying perhaps he could do something after the election but before the election wasn't the way to go. you saw a couple republicans, mitt romney and a couple republicans criticize him. you see most republicans on capitol hill, they didn't say that much at all. i don't know about the political fallout aspect. i mean, in the end, the president has hinted about this a number of times. it was not really a surprise that he went this route. >> yeah. and you can argue about the political fallout. there may be virtually none. maybe it will get his base going. but there is a bigger picture here. i hat off to aaron blake of the washington post who laid out the president's bold record of

pardons and commutations. war crimes including two murders. a third murder, an alleged murder. the arson of 139 acres of federal land. all these folks pardoned or sentences commuted. blagojevi blagojevich, tax fraud. blatant issues of public corruption, and trump is the first modern president we think to dismiss a murder conviction and he did it three times. is anything off limits? >> you know, nothing appears to be off limits for trump, and it's not just the substance of these pardons. it's the process. because pardons and commutations, there's an office inside of doj that manages this process and provides whatever level of advice the white house wants to the white house, and that typically involves going back and talking with prosecutors and judges and

evaluating the evidence. looking at an inmate's record while they've been incarcerated. none of that is happening with this president. trump gets the idea into his mind that he will grant a pardon, and there's no inquiry or effort to have any sort of treatment that's consistent across the field. so his pardons are unprecedented both in terms of the crimes he's willing the pardon. his willingness to openly dangle pardons as rewards for loyalty and in this absence of any process that gives people confidence that he's using his powers wisely. >> and you mentioned what robert mueller wrote about the stone commutation after staying silent for so long. let me read a little bit of what he wrote. when a subject lies tillerson vest gators -- it may ultimately impede the efforts.

how much do you think it could do that and continuing, impact continuing to hold on dedicated prosecutors if they see time and time again their work is not respected? >> i have confidence in prosecutors in this country. they're good people. they understand the importance of their jobs. this has been a tough week, a tough couple years for them. they'll keep their heads down and do their work. the comment mueller is forced to make points out the seriousness of what's going on here. trump has too often cast aside crimes like perjury and obstruction of justice. these are crimes that keep prosecutors from coming to the truth. when someone lies during an investigation which is what roger stone did here, it impedes justice. it's wrong. it needs to be punished. >> joyce always good to see you. anita, thank you to you as well. great to see both of you today.

to one of the hot spots of the coronavirus next. arizona, we'll find out what's being done with their testing crisis and how communities of color are being hit hard. and new polling evidence that coronavirus is having impacts in red states. it's not good news for president trump on that. james carville joins me for more on that. oins me for more on that. i know so many americans are suffering, suffering the loss of a loved one, suffering economic hardship. the country is crying out for leadership, leadership that can unite us, leadership that brings us together. that's what the presidency is - the duty to care, to care for all of us, not just those who vote for us, but all of us. i promise you this: i won't traffic in fear and division.

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coronavirus is ravaging the sun belt states including arizona where officials are reporting more than 122,000 cases. more than 2000 deaths. last week the phoenix mayor implored for further action to rerespondent to the worsening outbreak. today she urged the governor to mandate statewide mask mandates

and shut down businesses. with us is vaughn hillyard and an infectious disease doctor. what the situation where you are and any new dpienguidance an ho state intends to attack the growing numbers. >> reporter: i think what's troubling if you take into conversation this moment here is that it's 117 degrees outside here in arizona. this is not socializing season in the desert. the beer gardens aren't open. your big events are not taking place here in the state. folks are largely at home and not socializing. but you're seeing an additional 86 newly reported deaths. another record breaking day for icu beds in use. there's not enough testing in the state. we were at a couple locations yesterday that weren't high volume. there was one location in glendale that had 1200 appointment slots. the 1200 appointments were eaten

up by wednesday of earlier this week. there were no high volume locations today here. it's very sporadic. and there is a lack of understanding of how widespread co-vid is in the valley. you're seeing a percent positive rate of more than 20 %. i want to let you hear directly from a mayor here, a community that's largely latino and struggling to access the tests that are so necessary. >> i feel abandoned in regards to testing. we know latinos, blacks and native americans are definitely, are in higher risk of having co-vid and testing is that crucial component for us to figure out who is sick, decrease levels as well, and have a plan of action of how we slow the spread. my community is about 88% latino. and the vast majority of my community does not have the

luxury of working from home. they are risking their lives day in and day out. we've been failed by the national government. we've been failed by our president. >> reporter: again, it's been two months. we've been seeing rising numbers here. the state suggested the cdc and hhs will be opening two high volume testing locations later this week. there's a lot of question marks. does that come anywhere close to being adequate? >> yeah. that's the question. thank you so much. doctor, let me go to you. i feel like it's deja vu all over again. let's start with this whole issue of masks, the frustration you just heard from there. discussing the situation. wanting greater action at the federal level. again, we have people of color, people on the front lines who she says have to go to work, dying, will a mask mandate be

enough? what needs to happen here? >>. >> thank you. there's so much echoes of what happened in the northeast and the sun belt states. you're seeing the impact in the health care systems and the people who are affected disproportionately are people of color. people in front line jobs. then the shortages and shortages of enough tests which you would have thought the six months into the pandemic we would have resolved. they're picking up again. the things that are even more wor worrysomeis you're seeing a shift in hospitalization and an average of ten years younger. you heard birx talk at a conference on friday about this because in general you're seeing a lot more diabetes, prevalence of diabetes, obesity. they are appearing with higher prevalence in these states. we're seeing the deaths go up but hospitalizations themselves

have this immense cost. a cost on the health care system. then you can't provide care for others if your health care systems are overwhelmed. but they have costs for the individual. once you're hospitalized, there's conditioning. you're losing time from work. you might have premise innocents of the condition after you get discharged. there was a study this week that said 87% of people who survive this disease have at least one symptom at about two months out. it's not just about the deaths. we're going to see the impact of this for much longer. >> i was reading about a student in tucson who marched in the protests and said he would have test results. he got a test. he said he'd have the test results in three days. on day 22 he was still waiting. doctor, vaughn, thank you both to mu so much and the one and only james carville joins me coming up after this. me coming up after this. he golden opportuy sales event.

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up next, the latest polling in the 2020 presidential race and some stunning results from red states. the impact of the pandemic on the president's reelection bid. democratic strategist james carville joins me to break it all downright after this. all do. our bargain detergent couldn't keep up. turns out it's mostly water. so, we switched back to tide. one wash, stains are gone. daughter: slurping don't pay for water. pay for clean. it's got to be tide. hold on one second... sure. okay... okay! safe drivers save 40%!!! guys! guys! check it out. safe drivers save 40%!!! safe drivers save 40%! safe drivers save 40%!!! that's safe drivers save 40%. it is, that's safe drivers save 40%. - he's right there. - it's him! he's here. he's right here. - hi! - hi. hey! - that's totally him. - it's him! that's totally the guy. safe drivers do save 40%. click or call for a quote today. safe drivers do save 40%.

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there's bad news for the president in new polls in key states across the nation. joe biden is now leading donald trump by six points in florida. he's tied in arizona.

and competitive in texas where biden is down by a point to mr. trump. that's the latest from the tracking poll. biden is ahead in texas by five in a new dallas morning news poll. now, add to that powerful pro biden ads being made by republicans. >> donald trump says he's running a law and order. >> i am the law and order candidate. >> who is he kidding? >> trump's campaign manager is a felon. his deputy campaign manager is a felon. his national security adviser, a felon. his foreign policy adviser is a felon. his personal lawyer is a felon. his long-time personal adviser, a felon. there's only one way to end the trump crime spree. turn him and his crooks out of office. >> let's talk about it with political strategist james carville. great to see you, james. go tigers, first and foremost.

that is a heck of an ad from the lincoln project. one of many they've done. i was thinking could you imagine if former bush supporters had done a bunch of pro clinton ads? the political world is on it head. what's going on, james? >> well, i mean, direct criminals hang out with other criminals. these guys are former republicans, not criminals. they're outraged by the criminality. you can see that left and right. i mean, the whole thing is falling apart right in front of your very eyes. and now the money people start to leave trump. i'm getting phone calls about they don't want to give him any money because they know what's going on. they had to cancel a rally in new hampshire they couldn't get anybody to come up. the whole thing is falling apart before your eyes. by labor day texas, the colored maps, it's going to be a powder blue state by labor day. i mean, who would live in texas and be impressed this w this

outfit? very few people. >> let's talk about polling. there's a growing chorus of democrats who believe the timing is right for expanding the electoral map. i think when maybe attention we can say maybe could have been focused on wisconsin but what do you think about that whole idea and how do you even begin to approach where you put your time and money? >> they're going to have to play in so many places and by the way, it doesn't matter if they spend money or not. people are going to vote. they are coming out and voting. you look at the enthusiasm. people are knowledgeable people. the intensity right now in july is like it is in october. not the idea someone is going to run adds. we keep bringing up 2016. the polls are 1.3% off and we act like that's some kind of a

bench mark. it's no such thing. biden is leading about nine, ten points in a polling average. he literally was ahead in every state. some we are calling swing states that aren't anymore. michigan, pennsylvania isn't a swing state anymore. quit treating it like one. florida is pretty close to not being a swing state anymore. i can't remember the last time i saw a poll that didn't have biden up between four and eight. we're living in a different environment. we're living in a different world. and the truth of the matter is they can't -- they aren't going to convince you. they can't put a rally on. let them go sale puerto rico to make the real estate commission. that's the latest fiasco coming out of there. it's all falling apart. and people -- >> one of the things -- >> what? go ahead. >> i was just going to say, i'm sorry about the delay, james,

one thing that's notable on the back of these lincoln project ads is there is another group called unambiguously republican voter against trump that have been putting out first person testimonials. let me show you an example of that. >> i am ashamed to this day for voting for him and i feel that i almost have to pay my dues for it. >> voting republican for 42 years. i voted for donald trump four years ago because i didn't trust hillary. that was a mistake. >> can you imagine going to mar-a-lago to see the museum from the current president? i hope that they got an outdoor shower after you go in there because you're going to need it. >> how confident, james, do you feel about november right now because one of the things i keep hearing from rank and file democrats is that all these polls instead of making them feel good are making them nervous.

even if it was a very small margin, people are still so freaked out by what happened in 2016, they worry about overconfidence. >> i think people get excited about winning. i think that the the wrong way to look at it. i think on the verge of victory is moral is great. they're ready to go. that's what we are. and i think people want to win this in a way that is definitive and i actually think they are excited about it. they got a few people that think good things. it's just what it is. you can't change it. by the way, these tv spots you see, they aren't doing bank shots. they are doing q ball, 8 ball pocket boom and that's what democrats need to do. no confuse here. no anything. just go straight at it. but just get your appetite wetted by an imminent victory and it will be a big victory and what happens is only on the march, on the move, moral is

high. getting beat on the defensive moral crumbles. that's exactly what is happening here. they can't draw flies. okay? they could have cancelled a rally at new hampshire and show up for them in oklahoma. come on, you got to look around at the evidence. it right there in front of you. it can't be denied. and as to toesopposed to denyin evidence, make more phone calls, give more money. volunteer online. this is all -- democrats and independents should be excited. not nervous. this is great stuff getting ready to happen. >> i'm going g ting to quote y you. it's the economy, stupid. you know that's what trump thinks is his ace in the hole if the economy recovers and it's looking strong and it is one area trump does lead in the

polls. could it save trump's presidency? >> first of all, that was the second thing on the white board in headquarters. the first thing was change. if you're satisfied with the way things are going, if you're proud of this, if you think it's the right direction, then do one thing. if you think we need change, i got the name for you. biden. change. so people, this is a 23% right track country right now. people are dying for a change. they are going to vote for a change. don't be clever. biden is doing a great job doing this. the third thing is don't forget health care. the one that sticks but the most important thing was change versus more of the same. people are looking for change. big change. big time. >> james carville, i see a lot of kitchen equipment in the background. is there some crawfish eoutufee?

>> i'm a cajun. my wife likes kitchen design. i always got something cooking back there. i got seafood gumbo to heat up the night. >> i believe you. i absolutely believe you. it's good to see you, james. hello to mary. thank you so much. >> thank you, you bet. bye, bye. >> that's going to wrap it up for me this hour on ms in, bc. i'm chris jansing, thanks for being with us. the news continues after this break. "kasie dc" is up next. "kasie dc" is up next.

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you got this. tonight, breaking news, florida tops the single biggest increases in cases of coronavirus so far. as the president watches supports slip in key states where cases are rapidly rising. the white house daggers and undermines anthony fauci. can kids and teachers go back to school safely? i talked to former teacher of the year johe jhohanna hayes. later, grammy winner jason isabelle on music, masking and why heus