achieved itself. the pathway of progress is still under construction. you've got to roll up your sleeves and continue the work. >> you know, i'm fired up! i'm fired up! i'm ready to march! on the board with a new story, a report out this evening that offers a very telling portrait of this president exactly during these unprecedented times and we quote, trump in recent weeks, the post reports, has been committing less of his time and energy to managing the pandemic, according to advisers. one of these advisers said the president, quote, is not really working this any more. he doesn't want to be distracted

by it. this comes as we enter yet another july weekend once again in sad record territory. that's because we have just recorded 75,820 new cases of coronavirus in our country in a single day and that is a single day record for the second day in a row. the curve showing the daily case load keeps going up. nearly 140,000 deaths. tonight, dr. anthony fauci, who the white house has been keeping off of television, was allowed to appear on the pbs news hour where he promptly gave a blunt assessment of what we need to do right now to stop this spread. >> what we've got to do is reset. you may need to pull back a bit on a phase. you don't necessarily need to lockdown, but you have to do

three or four or five things that are absolutely critical because we know they work. and that is universal wearing of masks. stay away from crowds. close the bars. my main concern right now is i want to get that curve down to a really low level. if we get into the late fall and winter at that baseline level, as cases emerge, it will be infinitely easier to contain them than to chase them. >> tony fauci talking tonight on pbs. late last month, fauci told congress we could see as many as 100,000 cases a day. florida remains the nation's epicenter, more than 11,400 new cases reported today. miami beach has imposed an 8:00 p.m. curfew. it's a start. broward county has followed suit

while closing bars, ordering masks to be worn in certain areas, limiting social gatherings in certain areas. more than 10,000 new cases were reported in texas. now officials are dealing with the grim task of dealing with the number of bodies. the federal government today sending body bags and 14 additional refrigerator trucks. all this week the president has largely avoided the topic of the surge in covid-19 cases. he continues to focus on his push to reopen the nation's economy. we just heard dr. fauci to recommend masks to avoid another shutdown. the cdc has made the same recommendation. the president has now given fox news his opinion. >> i don't agree with a statement that if everybody wears a mask, everything disappears. dr. fauci said don't wear a

mask. our surgeon general said don't wear a mask. now everybody is saying wear masks. i'm a believer in masks. i think masks are good. >> so while there won't be anything close to a national mask mandate, trump did wear one last sunday during a visit to walter reed hospital. still more retailers are joining the list of mask required stores, including lowe's and home depot. they join target and cvs and others. only 38% of americans questioned he in a new washington post abc news poll say they approve, 60% say they do not approve of trump's handling of the pandemic. 64% says they don't trust what trump said about the issue.

the white house is blocking cdc director robert redfield from testifying next week on the subject of how schools can safely reopen in the fall. the cdc was expected to issue their guidance this week. it was promised to us by mike pence. but that's been delayed until the end of the month. secretary of defense mark esper has taken steps to ban the confederate flags. there are alarming images out of portland, oregon, of the militarized anonymous federal agents picking up and detaining protesters in unmarked vehicles.

personal accounts and multiple videos posted online show the driving up to people detaining people. ruth bader ginsburg was admitted to a johns hopkins facility this week for an unrelated infection. she has since been released. it's a lot on a friday night. here for our lead-off discussion, annie carney, white house reporter with the "new york times," jonathan carl, chief correspondent for abc news, but he has a book out which is why we're able to talk to him on our broadcast. it is called front row at the trump show. also back with us, dr. anne rimoin, a professor of epidemiology at ucla where she also runs the university's center for global and immigrant health, specializing in emerging infectious diseases. good evening and welcome to you all. annie karni, i'd like to begin with you. and the question is this.

the new polling on this pandemic shows it closing in, maybe even to reduce it to political terms, around the president. if you want to look at us as a red and blue country, some of it is because the disease is entering what we are identifying as red states, turning them red on the covid-19 map. here is a report from the poll itself. the partisan gap in infection fears has closed somewhat in the past two months as outbreaks have moved from urban, predominantly democratic areas to a broader swath of the country including republican areas of the sun belt and the south. the share of republicans who are at least somewhat worried has risen from 44% to 54%. annie, significant, an 11-point rise. >> it's huge, and it's not surprising that this would

really strike home with people when they see it in their own communities. i mean that's -- and we're seeing it also -- we saw this at the tulsa rally that trump tried to have last month where what happened there was that the campaign severely underestimated how fearful the president's own supporters were about getting sick and booked a huge stadium that was more than half empty when the president spoke there. this is just the latest example that the reality of this situation is something that from the very beginning of this pandemic, the president and his aides have not been able to talk their way out of, to spin their way out of, to hope that it just goes away. this is affecting his own supporters, and the president is trying to forge ahead holding campaign events. he wants to hold an in-person convention, and the reality of this pandemic is making it increasingly clear that it's almost impossible for him to go

forward as he wants to right now. >> jon karl, what about we members of the public during the greatest public health crisis of the modern era in our country? what about the white house coronavirus task force? is it still a thing? do they still meet? do they still carry out their duty to brief the president? is the reporting true that he hasn't attended a task force meeting himself since april? >> the task force is still there. they still work. the vice president still convenes them. they almost never have direct contact, though, with the president of the united states who has, as you know, just the day before yesterday talked to dr. fauci, the leading expert on all of this for the first time in more than a month. and publicly the president hasn't appeared with that task force for ages. in fact, over the past month, brian, the past month as this virus has raged, as we've seen spikes throughout much of the

country, increasing infections, increasing hospitalizations, and now we're seeing an increase in death rates, the president over that period of time over the past month has only had three events that were related in any way whatsoever to the pandemic. he has had events on just about every other topic that he wants his campaign to be focused on, but he has stayed away from anything related to this virus. >> anne rimoin, talk about your state of california. it's been surging. to those of us out east, especially in the new york metropolitan area, as things moved west, california seemed to us so cautious, and yet now looking at the numbers, it looks like so many of these other states with cases of reopening-itis. >> you know, brian, you're absolutely right. we did a great job at the

beginning. we shut down. we did everything that we possibly could to slow the spread of the virus, and that's what we did. but then we made the fatal error of opening up too soon. this virus is only going to stop spreading when we have herd immunity, and we are nowhere near this point. the deal is we got one way out of this, and that is by clamping down and using all the tools in our toolbox right now to be able to stop spread of the virus. and that goes -- you know this drill -- masks, social distancing, hand hygiene, limiting contact. >> so, annie karni, the math of this presidential campaign, in the past 24 hours we've heard the president warning they're going to destroy the suburbs. we heard mike pence today in the midwest say that this won't be a safe country under joe biden.

they're going to go deep on the demographic they've got and test the math of their hoped for silent majority? >> i think that is clearly what the plan is. the president outlined the new campaign mantra in the speech he gave on july 4th at mount rushmore, which was a pretty divisive address where he really wants to talk about tearing down monuments. he wants to talk about the protesters. he wants to talk about cancel culture. this is where the conversation -- where he's directing conversation away from the pandemic. the problem is that his poll numbers are falling, and this is where you mentioned at the top of the show the disagreement among advisers and the white house about what he should be doing. today kellyanne conway came out and said that the president was doing better when he was holding the daily coronavirus task force briefings, and he should bring

those back. this, to me, was a tell of how many -- how they lack good options right now because those coronavirus task force briefings where they ran two hours and the president would fight with reporters, they were pulled down after aides and donors and allies begged the president to stop doing those because he was hurting himself. now ignoring the pandemic appears to be hurting himself, and just talking about these culture wars is hurting themselves to the point where some advisers want some version of acknowledgement of this health crisis to come back. they don't have a lot of good options on the table for how to resuscitate this re-election campaign. >> so, jonathan karl, because while we may not be abc news, nothing gets past us around here, there we were last night reporting on the story, the superb reuters still photo of the giant vinyl binder that kayleigh mcenany brings out to the podium in the briefing room every day. and we're looking at the cross tabs, and yet it was interesting to see golf and goya and fauci

and mueller misspelled. but there unmistakably was karl, front row. what gives you your own cross tab, and what do you imagine it says in that chapter? >> i can only -- i can only imagine. there was also one called "absurd." i don't know if there's any overlap between those two cross tabs. look, i came out and was very critical of the press secretary for holding briefings that seemed to me to be more like political events, like staged political events, attempting to undermine the press, the reporters in the room rather than inform them about what the president's up to. and i don't think that was -- that was particularly appreciated, but, you know, i feel strongly about this, brian. i've been in that room under 15 different press secretaries now, and, you know, every press secretary represents the

president in the best possible light. but press secretaries are public servants. they aren't campaign spokespeople, and the credibility really, really matters, especially in a time like this. and, you know, you mentioned the attacks on dr. fauci. just this week the press secretary said that the idea that there's any tension between fauci v. the president couldn't be further from the truth. i mean as she was saying that, peter navarro was sending his op-ed off to the new york -- to "usa today." dan scavino, the deputy communications director, a guy who is as close to the president as anybody in that white house, was, you know, putting on his facebook feed cartoons mocking fauci. the press office itself was sending out talking points critical of the leading infectious disease expert, who is advising this president, who

is advising this white house. so, you know, i imagine some kind of a response to that might have been in that tab, but who knows? >> indeed. jonathan karl, you're so right. and our language and wording has had to migrate with the times, and we don't say things plainly enough, often enough. but make no mistake, there was a hit out on fauci from inside the west wing of the white house. that much was clear. hey, anne rimoin, it is also clear the white house is blocking cdc information from the public during a public health crisis. that should be said clearly. imagine withholding new standards and guidelines for returning to school and imagine, anne, being the head of a local school board, remembering that schools are decided locally still in our country despite the president's threats. what a choice, what a personal and economic choice this is for all parents. what an enormous choice this is for school districts who need

all the information they can get. >> brian, you're absolutely right. the cdc is the organization that the world has looked to historically as the gold standard, giving us the best information possible about how we move forward. we are literally sidelining the most important public health institution in the world and leaving it just out open in the air trying to decide what to do. the fact of the matter is we all want the kids back in school. we all do. but we can't do it if we don't have the rate of infection down and have really good guidelines in place and the funding in place to be able to enforce those guidelines right now either. the fact of the matter is we are really just -- we're sailing in uncharted territory with no captain at the helm. i mean it's a very disturbing moment.

we need leadership, and we need guidance for this whole country. we need a national strategy to keep pushing us forward. and without it, we are literally at sea. >> great thanks to our big three on a friday night after the week we've had. annie karni, anne rimoin, and jonathan karl, look at you with your own cross tab. we knew you when. coming up after our first break, in another country, we might call it elements of a military junta. camouflaged troops in combat gear with no markings jumping out of unmarked vehicles on city streets, taking people into custody. but, no, we just call it a week night in portland, oregon. the mayor of that city is standing by to talk to us about who they might be and what on earth they are doing on the streets of his city. and later on, is history repeating itself or worse?

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the federal government chooses to deploy troopers on our streets, as you mentioned, which is purely political theater. it's not about public safety,

and it's certainly not about problem-solving. this is a total and complete distraction from the trump administration's failure to lead a national covid-19 response. >> oregon governor kate brown demanding the federal government remove its militarized anonymous federal agents from the streets of portland. administration officials say the feds were deployed after 49 days of what they say has been violence and vandalism nonstop during black lives matter protests. video captured the camouflaged forces without any markings who refused to identify themselves, driving unmarked vehicles, teargassing protesters, loading them into unmarked vans. one protester armed with only a boombox was shot in the head last weekend with a non-lethal weapon. his mother told the "oregonian,"

quote, his face and schedule were fractured and that he finished facial reconstruction surgery sunday morning. quote, he still has a tube in his skull to drain the blood. we welcome to this broadcast, a man in the middle. the democratic mayor of portland, oregon, ted wheeler. mr. mayor, where did these guys come from? who are they, and under what authority are they in your city? >> so these are federal troops. they've been sent here by donald trump. they are sent here amidst increasing rhetoric from the trump administration. you'll recall last week president trump said he would, quote, dominate protesters. he's making good on that threat by sending his troops to cities like portland, oregon. and we've made it very clear they're not needed here. they're not wanted here, and we want them to leave. they're escalating what's an already tense situation, and frankly they're making things much worse. >> is it true that your p.d. can't handle it? what legal right do they have to -- again, coming in unmarked themselves, no visible identification in unmarked

vehicles and putting people in the back of minivans. >> yeah, the tactics being used here by the trump administration and the troops he's sent there, they're abhorrent. to send these vehicles out, they're unmarked, to have people literally grabbed off the streets, pulled into these vehicles and apparently done so -- they're doing so without any probable cause whatsoever, this is nothing short of an abuse of police authority. this is being coordinated from the white house. it's being done to bolster the president's failing campaign, and this is a time when americans need to wake up to what's happening right here on our streets but not exclusively in portland. it's happening all over the country in other cities, and this is a threat. this is a direct threat to american democracy. so we're unified here in portland from our federal officeholders to our governor, to our state and our local officials, and we're saying to the federal government, take these troops out of here.

we don't want them here. we don't need them here, and they're making an already tense situation much, much worse. >> i want to show you something ardent trump backer and acting deputy secretary of homeland security kent cuccinelli said tonight. we'll talk about it on the other side. >> well, there are people attacking our democracy, and they're in the streets of portland with the encouragement of mayor wheeler. and they get to roam free by and large without consequence. they're coming to attack our democracy at its base. they don't respect elections. they don't respect the law, and they want to tear it all down. and mayor wheeler is right there with them. >> now, mr. mayor, you're a capable guy. if memory serves, stanford, columbia, harvard, and you have climbed mt. everest. are you not capable of keeping the peace on the streets of portland, oregon, without outside help in this form? >> well, i wish the acting

secretary had done his homework before he sent his troops here. the fact of the matter was that for the better part of a week, the situation in our city was de-escalated. the energy was coming out of the nightly vandalism and in some cases violence that we were seeing. the crowds were thinning out. our police bureau and our local law enforcement partners and state partners de-escalated the situation by pulling back. things were going well enough that we predicted we would have this all done by the weekend. and instead what happened was president trump sent his troops in. dhs sent their troops in. they shot an unarmed demonstrators in the head, a nonviolent demonstrator, and blew the entire thing back up. so this weekend we're expecting much more not as a result of anything we've done locally, but as a result of the kind of tactics that you're showing on the screen right now. these are the kind of tactics that you would see in a banana republic.

no probable cause. no marked vehicles. no identification of who these people are. we don't know what policies they're acting under, what directives they're acting under, why they're doing the things they're doing, or who's going to be held accountable. and, again, i would just say if americans think this can't happen in your city, think again because the trump administration, they're on the hunt. they're on the hunt for anything they can do to bolster that man's failing campaign. >> how about confronting them, meeting them with bright lights and a bullhorn and showing the people in portland that you can demand identification, demand to know who they are, where they're from? the reports are they're with customs and border patrol, which would make as much sense as the bureau of prison troops that were in lafayette park. >> so a bullhorn's a good start, but what we're doing as a state, from our federal officeholders to our state officeholders to our local officeholders, we're

using the bullhorn of the national media, and i'm doing it right now. what i'm telling americans is these kind of banana republic tactics being used by the trump administration, they are putting at risk the lives of our residents, the lives of our local law enforcement, who say they don't want or need these troops here either. and ultimately this is a threat to our democracy. and this is an opportunity for all of us as americans to wake up and say, we do not want these kind of tactics in our communities. so i'm saying once again right here and now, we don't want those federal troops. we don't need those federal troops. and we want them to either stay in their federal building, or we want them to leave. >> ted wheeler, the mayor of portland, oregon, who again has his hands full on the streets of that city. mr. mayor, thank you very much for making time for us. >> thank you, brian. we ask for the attention of our audience at this moment for terrible news just in to us and just confirmed by us.

the death of legendary georgia democratic congressman and civil rights icon john lewis. we have a look back at his extraordinary life and times from nbc news correspondent geoff bennett. >> reporter: congressman john lewis was often called the conscience of congress, known as a moral leader who commanded respect from democrats and republicans, seen as one of the last unifying forces in national politics. lewis was one of ten children born to sharecroppers in rural alabama in 1940. he grew up on his family's farm and attended segregated public schools. lewis said he was inspired as a young boy by the activism surrounding the montgomery bus boycott and sermons by the reverend dr. martin luther king jr. which he heard on the radio. >> if the spirit moves us to, we have a right to march at night anytime we want to march.

[ applause ] >> reporter: all of it spurring him to become part of the civil rights movement. organizing sit-in demonstrations at segregated lunch counters in nashville, tennessee. in 1961, joining in the freedom rides, which challenged segregation at interstate bus terminals across the south. >> i was not concerned about making history. i just wanted to change things. >> reporter: while still in his 20s, john lewis became a nationally recognized leader. >> i grew in the movement to accept the way of love, the way of peace, the way of non-violence, the way of forgiveness. >> reporter: by 1963, he was dubbed one of the big six leaders of the civil rights movement. at the age of 23, he was an architect of and a keynote speaker at the historic march on washington. >> i have a dream today. >> reporter: but it was in 1965

when lewis helped spearhead one of the most seminal moments of the civil rights movement. he led more than 600 peaceful protesters against the edmund pettus bridge in selma, alabama, marching in support of voting rights. the group brutally beaten by alabama state troopers in what became known as bloody sunday. >> i lost consciousness. 50 years later, i don't recall how i made it back across that bridge to the little church that we had left from. >> reporter: news broadcasts and photographs of the cruelty helping to hasten the passage of the voting rights act of 1965. >> we were taught never to become bitter, never to hate. >> reporter: john lewis' activism continued in congress. >> we have lost hundreds and thousands of innocent people to gun violence. >> reporter: in 2016, after a mass shooting at an orlando nightclub killed 49 people, lewis led a house sit-in trying to force a vote on gun legislation. john lewis often spoke of the good trouble he caused in the 1960s and in the political

fights since, invoking the moral courage that fueled his lifelong fight for civil rights. >> when you see something that is not right, not just, not fair, you have a moral obligation to say something, to do something. >> reporter: geoff bennett, nbc news, washington. >> it was indeed a gut punch when we learned his diagnosis of pancreatic cancer just a matter of months ago. but he faced it with the same courage and fortitude he needed to get through the civil rights struggle. it is indeed hard to believe we still have black-and-white still photos, black-and-white news reels of the blows he suffered to the head. he came within an inch of losing his life that day. i suppose they can't waste any time for what could be among the

most fitting tributes, and that would be the quick renaming of the edmund pettus bridge in his honor as has been discussed. we are fortunate to be joined by melissa murray. she's an nyu law professor who clerked for now justice sonia sotomayor while on the u.s. court of appeals level. also with us, eugene robinson, the pulitzer prize-winning columnist for "the washington post." professor, i'd like to begin with you. your reaction again to this gut punch of a bit of news on friday night, to his life and his legacy. >> well, it's a really regrettable bookend to what has been a sad day. we learned this morning that reverend c.t. vivian, who was also one of the leaders of the civil rights movement, passed away. and to find out again at the end of today that john lewis has been taken is also a gut-wrenching blow. so this is incredibly sad news. >> also you mentioned both of these men, both of them recipients of the presidential

medal of freedom. it took a while in many cases, in cases all throughout the struggle, for great men and women to get recognition. it is taking a while yet, and it is one of the reasons americans of all stripes are still in our city streets. >> that's certainly the case. justice is an ongoing process, and john lewis reminded us of that throughout his remarkable career in congress as well as before that when he was a stalwart of the civil rights movement. but, again, the arc of justice bends, and we keep moving to the moral center of the universe, and the work continues to be done.

and as he noted earlier this year, the work that we're seeing on the streets in places like portland and throughout the united states is exactly the kind of work we need to do as a nation to reach a greater period of reconciliation and to try and remedy some of the wrongs of our past. it's hard work, but it's work worth doing, the kind of good trouble that he would have reveled in. >> eugene robinson, there were 435 members of the house of representatives, but let's be honest. one of them was different. >> yes. he was -- congressman lewis was one of the greatest americans. he was. this is a tremendous loss for this country, and it -- i am very sad to mark his passing. he was -- he was such an inspiration. that phrase, getting in good trouble, he always used that, and he always told crowds, audiences, especially young people, get in the way. get in good trouble.

get in the way. keep getting in the way. and if you think about it, i mean he was -- that protest was -- he understood how american protest was and kind of in many ways the soul of this country, what this country is about, how this country was born and how it has gradually, one hopes, been improved over the years. when you think of the arc of his life from student leader of the civil rights movement and then through all those years in congress working, always working, working so diligently, my wife, who knew him, once was just talking the other day about having visited him once in his office in the capitol and looking at the view he had down the mall toward the lincoln memorial and of him marveling that he had -- the arc that his

life had taken, that it had taken him from the poverty of his young years in the south and the discrimination and the oppression to that seat of power. and that journey, you know, had so much to do with him and with his energy and his commitment and his relentlessness and his wisdom. he was one of the greatest americans. he really was, and he will be so sorely missed. >> eugene, what you just mentioned, which is a towering modesty on top of all of his achievements was on display to all visitors. he would find a way to say to whoever was in his presence, whoever was in his office, anytime he was reminded of the

trappings that came with the job of a very senior member of congress, he would always find a way to say some version of, yeah, i know. who would have thunk it? >> he always did. he would tell stories of his youth and the way he grew up, you know, out in the yard as a child preaching to the chickens. but, you know, when he walked around capitol hill, walking with him was different because he was such an icon. so people recognized other members of congress and greeted them and said hello with respect and with excitement. but if you were walking with him and passers-by saw john lewis,

there was respect and love and awe at him and his contribution to making america a better nation and to making us all better that was different from the reaction that any other member of congress that i know of received on capitol hill. he was -- it's a cliche to say he was special, but he really was and a gentle and nice man as well.

never high and mighty. always willing to lend his energy and his name and his prestige and status and all of that to a good cause. never too weary to keep fighting. and may he rest in power. we are a lesser nation tonight with his passing. >> professor murray, eugene raises a great point. there have been members of congress dwarfed in importance and intellect and heft by john lewis, for whom job one is making sure you know they're

here, they're in the room. that wasn't his style at all. here's a guy who was -- had a personal role in an entire movement. but, again, fast-forward to modern times. he realized early on black lives matter was not a moment. it, in fact, was a movement all its own. >> that's certainly true, and it's worth noting that during his youth when he was the chairman of the student nonviolent coordinating committee and he was marching with dr. king and he was working for civil rights in the south, he was treated in much the same way the trump administration regards the black lives matter protesters throughout the country. he was a rabble-rouser. he was someone who was working against america. obviously we know now in retrospect that nothing could have been further from the truth. he was actually working for the greatest ideals of america. but in that moment, he was someone who was viewed as a threat and as an enemy, and i think he recognized with black

lives matter that the work of each movement in each moment is never really understood in that moment but only later when the work comes to fruition. and his work certainly came to fruition. he inspired generations and continued to do great work in congress. and, again, eugene is exactly right. we are a lesser nation tonight for his passing. >> and, eugene, you also mentioned this. he was willing to be an inside player. my goodness, he had his name on congressional letterhead. he had seniority in congress. his office was constantly full of students from his home district in georgia, say nothing of students from all over the country who wanted an audience with him. and yet he -- he still was that kid in the tan raincoat and the backpack, that kid whose life almost ended as a young man. he was still willing to sit in

and sit down at the drop of a hat. you gave him a cause, you had a brother in that cause. >> you certainly did, and because he saw how much work was yet to be done, was left to be done. and in assessing, not every leader from the time of the civil rights movement had the patience and the tenacity and the determination to do what he did, to rise in congress, you know, with his laborious process. you come into congress, into the house of representatives, you have no seniority. you have a closet for an office, and nobody pays any attention to you, and you work your way laboriously and slowly up to where you do have power and influence and clout. and he had the patience and the commitment to do that in a way that not all of the civil rights leaders from that generation did.

he saw that as his contribution. it wasn't from the pulpit. it wasn't from, you know, in front of the television cameras. he was -- he was about getting the work done, often in the back rooms, often unsung, but getting the work done that he knew was important. >> we're now joined by a second pulitzer prize recipient, the historian and author jon meacham, longtime friend of this network and this broadcast. jon, your reaction to the passing of john lewis. >> it's an extraordinarily sad day for america and for the cause of the beloved community,

which is one way of talking about the kingdom of god on earth. john lewis was a minister of the gospel. he was an american of unmatched stature, i believe, and he's the only man i've ever met who met the classical christian definition of a saint. he was willing to die for his beliefs. he shed blood, and not long ago i was talking to bernard lafayette, a classmate of his at american baptist theological seminary, which is this small seminary on a hill across the river from nashville, from the stores where lewis began his protests. and dr. lafayette said, i'm just amazed john made it. and diane nash, who was with him

in the beginning, an activist living in chicago now, said that she was -- that she always thought that john was a figure really out of the new testament. he was someone who bore witness to the best parts of us, and to do that, he had to confront the worst of us. and from the -- you know, he was born february 21st, 1940, in troy, alabama. he didn't have to imagine what slavery was like because his great-grandfather had been born in slavery in alabama. and he went from that farm that

you and gene were talking about to the height of not worldly power. that's not quite right. he always believed that the temporal could be a lot closer to -- religious. and i think that's one of the most extraordinary contributions anyone's ever made in american history. >> jon meacham, when did you last see and speak with john lewis? >> about 3 1/2 weeks ago. i met him for the first time 30 years ago on an election night in 1992, and we talked for a long -- we talked and got to know each other over the years. and i had always wanted to write about him, and so the past few months, i don't want to say we've collaborated because he's

a big figure than i'll ever be. but i decided to write a book about the power of hope and the uses really of what faith can be in politics through the story of his life. and we spent a lot of time because of the virus, because of his illness, we did it all on the phone in these years. but as you know, brian, being around him was a kind of a transporting experience. you felt you were with someone who was conversant with the angels. and he wasn't perfect. you know, he could be prideful. he could be stubborn. but on the things that mattered, on the things that we celebrate about this country, justice for all, equality, trying to live up to what we said we were devoted to in the beginning, but we have

not been, it was john lewis who is a biblical figure who led us to a better place. and the last conversation we had, which as i say, was because he started when he was a freshman in college in nashville. and he said, do what you -- if you see trouble, if you see injustice, speak up. speak out. stand up. keep going. the other story just very quickly, brian, so talking to him, you know, all the old stories were in his head. again, a kind of a biblical figure. one thing, like figures from the bible, his family, he grew up

being robert lewis, and his family called him robert, still did. he became john when he joined the movement, and there's a biblical tradition of that, whether you're elijah or abraham or peter, where you receive a different name when you enter into a great mission. and one of the -- and he had a period of exile when he lost the control of the chairmanship of the student non-violent coordinating committee in 1966. and, remember, john lewis, who now seems this figure of the establishment, longtime congressman, we see the images of him in the corridors of power. he was the radical in 1963. when he went to the march on washington, he was the last surviving speaker at the march on washington. so now we have no one who was

there on that epic august day. the kennedy administration had stationed people inside the lincoln memorial, ready to cut the mic and play mahalia jackson's "he's got the whole world in his hands" over the loudspeakers if lewis became too radical. they were that worried about what he was going to say. but what he was saying was this fundamentally human message, which was we all have to be treated with dignity. and he was willing to shed his blood, whether it was in nashville or the freedom rides or rock hill, south carolina, or of course, selma, alabama.

i was with a number of people on the bridge with him, which was his last time there in march. and that's what he said. he said, we just got to keep moving. we've got to keep marching. >> jon, right now feels so bad. do you think he went to his reward thinking that maybe he got us through the worst of it? >> you know, he believed something that honestly i don't, and we had a lot of conversations about it. he believed that if enough of us oriented our hearts and our minds to do the right thing, that we could actually bring about the reign of justice and the kingdom of heaven on earth. i'm more of a tragic guy. i don't think we can do that on this side of paradise. congressman lewis fervently believed the opposite. he believed that the beloved community, if you and i and

everybody else did the right thing, if we treated each other with love and respect, if we actually followed the dictates of the sermon on the mount, if we believed what the bible taught us and we put it into action, that as the prophets said, justice would run down like waters and righteousness like a mighty stream. and that wasn't rhetoric to him. that wasn't sunday morning. he was not a stained glass christian. he was a christian of the streets. he was a christian of substance. and the last public thing he -- the last two public things he did is he went to the black lives matter plaza outside washington, outside the white house, and stood there and believed anew that if we do the right thing, if we listen to the still, small voice of conscience, we will reach the

kingdom. the second thing he did was a virtual town hall with president obama, and he repeated that message again. and president obama wonderfully said in that town hall that, you know, john's tough, but he's a little dude. and the fact that he did so much as a young man and was willing to face that violence but was not a particularly physically imposing presence shows us the power of example. the story of john lewis will be told as long as the republic survives, and if the republic falls apart, we're going to have to tell that story in order to put it back together again. >> a couple things here for our viewers just joining us. we've lost a giant at the age of 80. just received word john lewis has died.

we've been listening to the historian and author jon meacham, who has been collecting john lewis' story these past few weeks and months. at the top of the hour in four minutes, we want to let you know we have prepared an hour-long look at the life, legacy, and times of john lewis. but in the intervening minutes before the top of the hour, let's bring in my friend, joy reid, to add her voice to this remembrance tonight. joy? >> hey, brian. yeah, this is a -- this is a tough one, you know, and i think, you know, coming one day after c.t. vivian died, we're losing this whole generation of great men. and it's devastating. it really, truly is. and just thinking about john lewis, you know, he's 11 years younger than dr. king, and i love hearing jon meacham talk about, you know, his grace and graciousness. but when he was young, he was

feisty, john lewis. he was the one who dr. king had to say hold on, back down a little bit because what he wanted to say to john f. kennedy at the march on washington was fiery. he wanted to indict him. he wanted to rebuke him for not doing enough to save black lives. you know, if you want to talk about black lives matter, he was the original black lives matter activist. he was so much like these young people that we're seeing marching in the streets today. he was insistent. he was making demands, not requests, and he was unabashed in his belief that equality had to happen now, that black people shouldn't have to wait for it. and i think in combination with dr. king, he was just one of the absolute, absolute greats. it's a huge loss for the country. >> joy, if we're looking for good news, he lived to see the words "black lives matter" on 16th street staring right at the

white house in his lifetime. >> yeah, absolutely. i can remember watching him interact with black lives matter activists and, you know, reminding him that he was them. you know, he was looked at by a lot of younger activists as part of the old school, but, no, he really, literally was them. and i was lucky enough as jon was to be in selma in march. he wasn't supposed to be there. he actually was not meant to actually show up on the bridge. and when word got out that he was actually going to be there, there was this crush of people who just wanted to see and hear him, and i feel so blessed that i got to, you know, shine my camera up there and record that little piece of video when he just reminded us to get in good trouble. what a blessing, you know, to have had him in this world. you know, i just think we were all just graced with his presence, blessed by his presence, and his memory will truly be a blessing to all of us. >> joy reid among the voices contributing.

professor melissa murray kind enough to talk to us tonight. eugene robinson was the first of our pulitzer prize recipients we were able to reach by phone. then along came jon meacham to add his extraordinary voice to this shocking piece of breaking news. the death of john lewis tonight. and our friend, joy reid, of course. and at the end of the day, at the end of this night and here on the east coast, the closing seconds of this, another wild week, what i raised with joy is important. john lewis, it's hard to believe he was alive and with us and standing with the assistance of a cane at times on 16th street, which really abuts at lafayette square after all of that violence, all of those federal forces marching on, beating on, firing gas upon peaceful protesters. and, of course, john lewis knows

something of peaceful protests. it is really remarkable that he was there. he lived to see three words in yellow on black pavement visible from space, and it will probably be said visible from heaven. they read out "black lives matter." breaking news right now on msnbc, the civil rights icon and long-term congressman john lewis passing away overnight after a brief illness. and in one of his final public appearances in washington, d.c., the message he offered at black lives mater plaza that rings out today. we begin with another record, the rise of coronavirus cases as some hot spots get hotter. the growing concerns over new cases and new questions on whether you can catch the virus twice. new word from dr. anthony fauci today, whether he thinks the white house is working against him. those