briefing appearances and concentrate on economic recovery and his re-election. >> we had a lot of people watching, record numbers watching in the history of cable television, television there was nothing like it. >> quote,ing from the article, mr. trump sometimes drowns out his own message says senator lindsey graham of south carolina graham told the president that a once a week show would be more effective. >> we'll give you a lot of briefings in the next week or next few weeks >> senator shelly moore of west virginia said the briefings were going off the rails a little bit and suggested he should let the health professionals guide where we're going to go. >> we'll start that probably tomorrow i'll do it at 5:00 >> jonathan lemire as you report in your story, this campaign

team implored the president to stop holding the briefing because it's not helping his poll standing. and he replied with but my tv ratings. the ratings were huge. >> a lot of people were watching, and that's a good thing. >> a good thing for whom in april we reported on republicans' major concern that trump was inflicting damage to his re-election process in the briefings soon after the briefings went away. now three months later, unable to hold rallies and floundering in the polls, president trump announces that televised briefings are back >> here's a question this can go one of two ways. it can go very badly, if you could put money in vegas on it going very badly for the president and the american people, that's where i think,

since past is usually prologue with this president most people would put their money there. there is a chance he could follow the advise of joe biden in an op-ed he wrote today, get this, six months ago, at the end of january when joe biden said let your scientists speak, let your doctors speak again, everybody, this was -- this was the end of january when joe biden said we were not prepared for a pandemic and listen to your experts, listen to your scientists this is when the president was saying, it's one person coming in from china and soon it's going to go away and doing china was doing an extraordinary job and the people of the united states want to congratulate president xi so will he follow joe biden's

advice six months later and 140,000 deaths later and hold hearings where we could hear dr. fauci, where 65, 70% of americans trust on the coronavirus, where only 20, 25% trust donald trump will he do the right thing and allow dr. fauci to lead these? will he allow dr. birx to be there with dr. fauci will he allow other epidemiologists? maybe bring in scott gottlieb and others to help with this process. or is he just going to go out there and go back to his clorox variety hour programming that's not good for americans. that's not good for the president of the united states we've got an outbreak, a health care pandemic. >> yeah. >> it's getting worse across the country. in red state america so we need leadership in

washington we need, mr. president, for you to do what joe biden asked you to do six months ago when he said in an op-ed, you're not prepared for this pandemic when you said, oh, it's one person from china and it's going away a month later, it's 15 people and soon it'll be down to zero 140,000 people are dead, joe biden six months ago is saying, listen to your doctors, listen to your scientists let them lead this process and talk to the american people. will you finally follow the biden plan for the good of america, mr. president >> can i answer? >> i hope -- no. listen we never know what's going to happen i talked about john wayne's deathbed conversion, maybe donald trump will do what is best for the health of america because maybe he'll admit -- maybe he'll admit he's been wrong every step of the way.

maybe he'll admit that he was wrong for saying this was going away a couple of months ago. maybe he'll admit that this is going to continue into the fall, remember back in april he was saying this wasn't -- dr. fauci said this would be with us in the fall there would be a second wave in the fall and the president is saying, no, this is going away it's not going to be with us maybe hope springs eternal maybe we get the john wayne deathbed conversion to a thot schism or at least in this respect to medicine, science and american lives. >> we won't get that but maybe we'll hear from the doctor. >> reminds me of a pink floyd cover, maybe pigs will fly over smoke stakes in great britain. >> i think he'll allow the doctors to speak. >> i think so. >> and he'll use them as an outlet because he has nowhere to

go -- >> be i hope he follows the biden plan i know most americans hope he'll follow if biden plan because the biden plan, at the end of january, laid the pathway forward for this country to do so much better than it's been doing. i'm not one of these people that say, hey, you got it wrong at the beginning so forget it no if he can -- if he can go the right way, if he can follow the advice in july, john heileman, that joe biden where in the "usa today" in an op-ed at the end of january, think about the difference that would make for small business owners, for restauranters, people who have owned family businesses for generations that have seen it going away we know so many people, all of our friends just fighting to

survive. they would love him to follow the biden plan, to listen to the scientists, listen to the doctors, it would give them a fighting chance to survive economically, to get kids back to school if you follow the biden plan, and, of course, most importantly to save the lives of so many senior citizens. just follow the biden plan doesn't that make the most sense? >> absolutely. and i think -- the only question i have for you, joe, does he need to call it the biden plan and acknowledge that it is the biden plan and whatever he refers to what he's now doing, describe it as the biden plan and do it and only acknowledge it's the biden plan once or maybe not acknowledge it's the biden plan at all. i think he should say from the outset, i have reflected on this period and i have decided i'm

embracing in the spirit of bipartisan, the one place we will not have a fight or brawl in this campaign is over public health so in the spirit of leading country, i'm now embracing publically the biden plan. >> it's not happening. >> i don't think he'll do that. >> no. >> i don't think he'll do i'm following the joe biden plan that joe biden put in writing at the end of january when i was saying it was one person coming in from china. >> and signed his name to. >> even if he doesn't call it the biden plan or the january 28 -- whatever, if he doesn't call it the biden plan to follow the advice of doctors and scientists and let them lead in these discussions, even if he did you wa doesn't call it the biden plan, he can just embrace it and do it and not call it the biden plan because it's for the good of the country. >> right

sure >> you look now, you look politically, we've been saying it, he can call it the joe and mika plan if that makes him feel better because we've been saying since march, take care of the health care crisis, that will take care of the economic crisis, that will take care of the political crisis we've said it repeatedly, he hasn't listened to of and you know that makes me sad. >> yeah. >> he doesn't have to repeat that we're only one of like 800 billion people who have been saying that. republicans are even saying that now. but the questionis this, john, this could go very well or very badly. if he decides to go the route of joe biden, what he suggested, i'm being dead serious here. could this be one of those moments where back in 2016 he understood he was in trouble and he showed self-discipline for

brief periods of time, the man is displaying spasms of lucid y lucidity, could we see a riddick joe moment i don't care about the pandemic i'd wrath e talk about the economy, but in a spasm of lucidity donald trump decides i'm going to listen to what joe biden told me i should do six months ago and i'm going to let the doctors and health care professionals and the scientists who have been right every step of the way lead this discussion. >> well, joe, i think you suggested before that, you know, there was -- you made a comment about a pink floyd album and pigs and taking flight is it possible it's possible. you know, possible in the realm

of possibility, as with the pigs i keep looking i'm watching for them, i haven't seen one yet but i haven't given up hope there will be pigs flying by my window soon. >> taking this politically, taking this seriously -- >> i am. >> -- do you think that donald trump lacks the capacity he had even in 2016 to, at times, especially after the comey letter, understand he needed to be quiet and he told people around him, i just need to shut up and let news events carry the day and stay out of the way. you know better than most he made that calculated decision, is he inip ccapable of doing th four years later. >> i would say i don't know if he's capable or not but we've seen no evidence that he's capable. we've seen significant mounds

piles of evidence that he's let slip his moments of lucidity you talked about does that mean he cannot in the face of -- as they say nothing concentrates the mind like the thought of a hanging at dawn is it possible he will locate some reservoir of lucidity and discipline he once spore radically displayed four years ago, it's possible i say confession or projection, with donald trump it's one of the two. when he talks about things he doesn't play hide the ball he tells you what he thinks about stuff, he's not a complex guy to read. he said yesterday he wants to get back on the air to talk about this stuff because it had high ratings he did have high ratings, millions of people watched the

briefings this winter and spring millions watched do i think that he -- the reason he's coming back on is because he thinks that he was good in those briefings? he thinks he was persuasive, powerful spokesman i think he feels what happens happened is there was a period of time he had more control over the public perception of this virus and crisis than he had after he left the stage. so he's remounting the stage now because he thinks he'll do a better job than anyone else explaining what's going on with this thing, why it's nothing to be feared, why it's fake news and we're all overblowing it, and why america is doing great i think he's the best messenger for himself. i don't think he thinks he was a disaster politically in the winter and spring when he was on television so do i think he's going to be

behave differently than the winter and spring? i do not but as you said, hope springs eternal, anything is possible. >> mika, it would be even more of a political catastrophe for his campaign if that were, in fact, the course he chose, because, of course, those briefings were the beginning of his slide. and with every briefing he made, every time he went off script, he provided, and we predicted at the time, he provided the sound bite that his opponents would use against him in the fall and, of course, that's where we've got so many of his quotes. errant quotes talking about it's not coming back in the fall, using bleach, using uv lights. >> hydroxychloroquine. >> hydroxychloroquine. you can go down the laundry list of it. it's just bad. not only is it bad medicine, not

only is it bad for americans' health -- >> it's crazy. >> but him going out and repeating those performances, going out and lying about the pandemic, lying about the numbers as he tried to do on chris wallace, it's only going to hurt him politically more you look at the numbers of whether americans trust him and his handling of the pandemic and it's in the basement it's about as bad as you would think it would get but now if he comes out at the end of july and does this for another two, three, four weeks before it's shutdown again, i -- you know, i think there are a lot of republican donors and a lot of republican senators and house members and a lot of people on the trump campaign team that understand that this is -- this will close the door finally on any chances he has for a comeback

and again, i'm just saying this neutrally. i can say that because i know a lot of republicans who are thinking the same thing. this would be politically devastating for him if he goes out and performs the same way over the next month going into labor day, the way he did this past spring. >> that was the most amazing ten minute block of reverse psychology analysis. we'll move from that to carol lee, who has knew reporting on how these -- >> he should follow the biden plan. >> -- 5:00 briefings came about. what do you know >> reporter: we know the white house's view was the president was on defense about the coronavirus then so his aides want him to be out there more talking about it as one of them put it to us, he's been leading quietly and now he needs to lead publically, part of what we're told is driving this is the white house had internal polling that shows that americans have

no clue what the federal government doing in terms of a response to coronavirus so they're trying to course correct there. but what they want the president to do is talk about things like vaccines, what the progress is there, therapeutics to basically say things i talked to this governor and here's the supplies we're sending to states and hot spots. they don't want a return to april, what you guys have been talking about, for all the obvious reasons. they want him to do more limited kinds of appearances, more focused. the problem is this is a president that hasn't shown the willingness to have the discipline on the issues today he's expected to take questions on any range of topics and this is what's gotten him in trouble in the past and given his aides some heart burn. but the goal is he would do a mix of briefings and other types of events.

it's an acknowledgement from the white house that what he was doing was not working and he was trying to course correct that, particularly several months before the election. he's also, as you mentioned, wants to be out and talking and doing something and he doesn't have many outlets for doing that right now. >> and carol, i understand you have in new reporting potentially on the spade of executive orders that the president has been talking about. big announcements on tuesday what might they be >> this is in the same vain of just the president's team wanting him to look proactive rather than reactive and defensive. so what we're told is the president is going to sign a series of executive orders that his aids say are going to be meaty on everything from immigration to health care the president teased this himself. what's interesting is what they're pointing to to do this is the supreme court decision on daca that ruled against the president but basically in the white house's interpretation of

that is that it gave him broad executive authorities the way the ruling came down our own pete williams who covers the supreme court closely said that's not the case. but that's the argument they're making to put forward executive orders on issues he hasn't been able to accomplish legislatively after three and a half years in office. >> carol lee, thank you for your reporting this morning eddie, going back to the president and how he's been handling this pandemic obviously we know, everybody knows it, on january 22nd he said it was one person coming in from china and soon it would be gone on the 24th he said president xi was doing an incredible job. at the end of february saying it was 15 people coming in and it was soon going to be gone. in march he said it was going to be magically going away.

he talked about it leaving in april when it got warm then started talking about bleach and uv lights, putting it inside americans' bodies i'm just wondering if we may be seeing the president, even if if it's cynical, turn the corner a bit here, understanding that everything he has done over the past six months has been disastrous for him politically because, of course, doesn't seem to care about the numbers, 140,000 americans are dead and his response to chris wallace this weekend was, it is what it is question is, he's wearing a mask in public. finally saying it's a patriotic thing after deriding it for months he's talking about starting these briefings back up. is there any hope that perhaps -- and he met with dr. fauci over the weekend that perhaps dr. fauci, other doctors, epidemiologists are

going to be able to have their voice given back to them publically again, so they can walk americans through what many people believe is going to be the worst stage of this pandemic and that's the time period moving into the fall >> well, joe, hope springs eternal to echo john heileman, i suppose. there's a sense in which there's these counter tendencies in donald trump even though he may have information that suggests he should go this way he's always moved by his own self-interest. as he's wearing a mask we hear the language around testing, how he's thinking of testing as the rate of increase we know that what we're experiencing now is the crisis, the hot spot in the sun belt and many of these places the public health care infrastructure is really vulnerable and fragile. so people need information that's why we were clamoring for the briefings in the first place. then the briefings turned into a

kind of circus where they were celebrating donald trump or there was this take bleach and the uv lights and the like the misinformation so the interesting thing is the tension. will he act in the light of the public interest or will he act in light of his own self-interest. given the past, the ed from the past, donald trump will always act in the interest of donald trump. whether or not those two things will align finally, i'm not sure but one thing i am sure, joe, is that he's going to act in the interest of donald trump >> if that were the case, mika, then politically at least he would do what we've said from the beginning, which is follow the science. take care of the health care disaster. >> care about people >> that'll take care of the health care disaster, which will take care of the economic disaster, which will take care

of the political disaster. >> maybe people will stop dying. >> as we said enough repeatedly, i'm tired of saying it, if he listens to his scientists and doctors and does what joe biden was telling him to do six months ago, that will, ironically enough, be in donald trump's best political interest, even if if you don't think he's capable of caring about people and the 140,000 people who have died and the senior citizens whose lives are on the line right now hanging in the balance and even those who aren't senior citizens whose lives are hanging in the balance right now even if he's just thinking about himself, listening to his doctors, listening to his scientists, that's in his best political interest it's one of these rare moments, do what's best for you politically, you'll be doing what's best for americans

economically and with their health care. >> still ahead on "morning joe," the republican national convention is a month away, can you believe it but the florida sheriff responsible for securing the event says he can't pull it off because organizers still don't have a plan in place plus new reporting from texas, the situation is so bad in one hospital that at times, dozens of ambulances can be seen parked outside the emergency room waiting for beds to become available. the "new york times" caitlyn dickerson joins us with her reporting. and the news from oxford university's coronavirus trial dr. vin gupta explains why the results may not be as promising as advertised -- >> let's hope they are. >> -- you're watching "morning joe." >> i'll be curious to see what he says about it we've have some good vaccine news. >> we'll be right back

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all right. we want to give you a snapshot of where the country is with the coronavirus numbers. they continue to spike in areas all over the nation as nearly 69,000 cases were recorded in the past 24 hours. kansas yesterday reached more than 1,000 new cases a single day record for that state. alaska reported its own single day record with 137 new cases. and minnesota also recorded records 900 cases and its first death of a child alabama, florida, georgia, kentucky, north dakota, arkansas and montana reported new record highs for coronavirus related hospitalizations yesterday as did puerto rico. kentucky's governor announced he is limiting social gatherings to ten people announcing, quote, we

don't want to become arizona or florida. in los angeles, mayor eric garcetti said his city is on the brink of returning to shutdown mode and chicago has rolled back some of its reopening rules as coronavirus cases spike across florida, the outbreak has caught up with residents at one of america's biggest retirement communities there. since the beginning of july, hospital admissions of residents at the villages, a sprawling retirement community in central florida have quadrupled. more than 1,100 covid-19 cases were reported in and around the the villages initially seemed to escape the virus and at one time was the pride for republican governor ron desantis who

brushed off concerns at the risk at the retirement community. >> that's why you go to places like the villages. there were articles written saying the villages was going to crash and burn there was a 2% rate. >> by early july, the infection rate at the villages had jumped to 9%. >> so john heileman, ron desantis you have to put him out there as exhibit number one -- >> of most wrong ever? >> -- of -- and i saw a lot of so called influencers early on saying where does ron desantis go to get his apology, i saw columns in pro-trump publicat n publicatio publications, where does ron desantis go to get his apology where does brian kemp go to get his apology? every scientist, doctor was

telling us, this is a nine inning game we're in the second inning of a nine inning game these clips of ron desantis being so painfully wrong, not only about the villages but about the state of florida, is just a good example of why every politician and every school board member and every doctor should keep their head down. it reminds me of the iraq war, you know people be cheering we're doing great or oh, it's horrible, the surge will never work. then people supporting the surge said, oh, look it was like tennis going back and forth and back and forth this case it's just going straight down and desantis is a great example how we all need to understand this is a nine-inning game and maybe we're in the fourth inning by now we still have a long way to go

>> yeah, nine inning game in a 162 game season, joe we joke about at the end of april, end of may, you look at the standings back when we had baseball with some regularities, the team in first place in may let's wait until september and talk about the penate race the crazy thing about it, yes, there's obviously a lesson to be learned by politicians, in all cases, everyone know how long the game is going to be but the humility and some sense of just being not getting into the brag game, the donald trump game early in anything is just smart politics and then all that stuff lives forever on the internet, there's videotape, and you think people, someone who gets to be the governor of florida, would know,

there's no political upside to claim victory early. if you're right, you get the political benefits whether you posted about your success early or midway through. just take your time and you think that desantis would know that you also think he would know by making those claims you're risking an enormous amount leaving that videotape out there that these things are going to come out and haunt you but apparently he did not understand that and he's now going to be crushed i think. we hope for florida things get better there no one wants to see additional pain and suffering but i think there is a lot out there right now as you look at people, especially ron desantis, because some of the other governors at least didn't try to take a victory in the third or fourth inning and now you think to yourself, man, those clips are going to live forever and

they're a political mill stone around his next when he stands for re-election, not up again until 2022, but those are going to leave a mark on ron desantis. >> where will donald trump be? what's he doing this for >> it's frightening obviously for the senior citizens that live in that state. >> deadly. >> for those of us with so many loved ones in that state that may be older, senior citizens. we have so many friends and loved ones who are senior citizens in the state of florida that i've known across the decades. and for those of us who have children who have underlying conditions, trying to figure out how we're going to navigate letting them get back to school. understanding how important it is for not just a socialization aspect but also because you just don't learn as much at home from distance learning as you do in that class but florida has been put in a horrific position now,

and in large part because of some really bad policy decisions because we, as a state, didn't -- >> follow the science. >> didn't follow the science didn't follow what the doctors have been saying so yeah, it's a terrible situation in florida as we go not only into the school season and we go into the fall but also forall of our friends who are small business owners there. who have had family businesses for generations who are fighting for this economic lives and are, once again, having to shutdown because of the bad missteps by leaders in that state. >> and the economic part of this is, as much as the health part, it's part of the health part joining us now we want to talk to dr. vin gupta about all of this he's a pulmonologist who has treated critically ill coronavirus patients in

washington state and also an msnbc news medical contributor let's start with florida if if we could there are schools that are still planning on reopening. when you look at the data and the numbers and also the decisions being made at the top in florida, where do we stand and where is this heading? >> good morning, mika. i think it's important to say, even in the last week since we last chatted, there's more and more data coming out suggesting that the covid-19 transmission occurs through small droplets, airborne transmission. so enclosed spaces with poor ventilation. i've been hearing from teachers, school districts across the country saying doc my classroom is in the basement, i can't open up and get air exchange, what do i do how do i protect myself and the kids the truth is we don't know the answer to that there is not enough high quality

ppe for doctors and nurses much less teachers and students i'm concern about florida and arizona. governor doocy saying we're starting on the 17th in the face of this data suggesting there's more evidence about aerosol transmission of the virus, we need the states to pause reopening and not go forward with them. >> so dr. gupta, earlier this week, yesterday, we were news oe vaccine front. but you have a little bit of a gut check as to how this could play out it could be quite a while, couldn't it? >> mika, i think you used the right word it was good, it was not great. we need cautious optimism here on the as ttrazeneca trial. moderna released results from phase one early last week.

all we have is the data they're publishing in the medical journals we're seeing that the individuals that get the vaccines develop anti-body hitters that are lower than if you've been exposed to covid-19 and recovered. so it's good but we also know if you got covid-19 you tend to loose antibodies within two months so the big unknown here is longevity of the immune response but i didn't see overwhelming data from either one of the vaccines you get one shot and you're protected or you get a booster and you're protected for the year so that's the big unknown. so i say this is good, not great. >> understood. a "new york times" dispatch from a texas hospital at a southern border shows a dire situation there.

ambulances stacking up outside emergency rooms, waiting for beds an area for pregnant women with the virus has expanded twice in the rio grand valley it's a perfect storm of poverty and chronic illness that has led to a punishing surge in infection where more than a third of people live in president obaovey half don't have health insurance and are obese. is there any end in sight? >> we did get the news yesterday that one of the four counties in the rio grand valley instituted a shelter in place order yet again but what i heard over and over again while i was reporting

in the region is that people in the early months of the pandemic took governor abbott's shelter in place order seriously this community knows there are so many people who don't have health insurance or legal immigration status so they avoid the health care system at all costs and try to keep themselves healthy and were taking the shelter in place seriously but once it expired in may people were told it was safe to gather again and this is a tight-knit family oriented community. they get together with their families, see each other multiple times a week for dinner so the virus has been spreading since may. here we are, one county reinstitutes the orders but it's late, we have 12,000 active cases in in the region so the thinking is things will continue to get worse unfortunately before they get

better. >> eddy glaude, jump in. >> caitlyn, thank you for your reporting on this issue. what are the grass roots organizations doing to respond to this crisis given the failure of the government and state? >> i think grass roots groups are trying to give advise about how to move through the community safely, which is to do so as little as possible and when you do it, do it wearing a mask, a face shield. i did see that start to shift. i would go to target to get my bleach to clean off my material that i was bringing in and out of the hospital every day and i would see people in target wearing masks and face shields but the problem is the grass roots organizations are having to go against what the state and local government until yesterday was advising people.narrative. it's hard for people, the

government is telling you one thing, the advocacy group is telling you another, i haven't worked in months, i need to feed my family, who do i believe? >> dr. gupta, let me just ask you, i was reading an article. >> yesterday about flying on airplanes and where we are there are some airlines, united, that don't keep the middle seat open delta has continued to stand by their commitment to keep that middle seat open if you have to fly somewhere, how safe is it and what is the difference between flying on an airline that jams three people in a row all the way back and an airline that keeps the center seat open? >> joe, i'm glad you asked that question so number one, i would say it's actually -- it's pretty

remarkable what airlines are able to do now delta is able to recirculate new air in the cabin within five minutes. so if if you had to ask me would i rather be in a classroom or an airline cabin, whether the middle seat is full or not, there's more ventilation in the airline cabin, doing air exchanges every five minutes than most indoor settings. if you take that at face value, knowing what we know about covid-19, it would suggest that airlines, while they pose risks and you only want to engage in essential travel there is the ventilation you need but to your second point, joe, i understand why airlines need to fly capacity with reduced flight schedules. so there's a push and a pull, we have to recognize that instituting minimum 6 foot distancing, you don't have six feet between aisle and window much less aisle and middle

i don't love the fact they can't do basic things like the middle seat needs to be open. that's something the federal government should be able to mandate and this needs to happen but they're doing great when it comes to air exchanges i wanted to emphasize that point. >> dr. vin gupta thank you for being on this morning and caitlyn dickerson, thank you for being on coming up, florida's largest teachers union sues governor desantis for rushing to reopen schools next month. plus major concerns that republican senator ron johnson is being used to carry out a foreign disinformation campaign against joe biden. "morning joe" is coming right back find pants that aren't swe. find your friends. find your sense of wander. find the world is new, again. at chevy we'd like to take you there.

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democratic leaders are worried about members of congress being targeted by a foreign interference campaign and are asking the fbifor an

urgent briefing. in a letter to the fbi director house speaker nancy pelosi, senate minority leader chuck schumer write, we are concerned that congress appears to be the target of a foreign interference campaign which seeks to launder and amplify disinformation in order to influence congressional activity public debate and the presidential election in november this according to politico among the democrats' concerns is that a senate investigation being led by senator ron johnson has become a vehicle for laundering a foreign influence campaign to damage democratic presidential nominee joe biden according to two people familiar with the demand. senator johnson responded to democratic concerns saying, quote, they're simply wrong. senator johnson is looking to

subpoena several former state department officials as soon as this week if they do not volunteer to testify >> you know, this letter is very subtle, keeping whatever information they have fairly close to the vest. but there is, of course, history here you had the intelligence community briefing senators, begging them not to push russian propaganda, that somehow the 2016 election interference was the cause of ukraine's government and yet constantly talking about crowd source, constant talk crowdstrike, constantly talking about that, again despite repeated warnings. republicans willfully pushed russian propaganda, they knew they were pushing russian propaganda and the nexus between the president and russia

continues between republicans and russia continues it's frightening it's so interesting this morning, there was braking news just before we came on the show from the bbc that the russians consider great britain to be, quote, their top target. the british intel community figured this out, boris johnson now has the information on the desk and they're going to target great britain. and consider the brits their top target why because of their close friendship with the united states so despite the fact the cold war ended in 1991, it should come as no surprise to anybody that vladimir putin still considers us to be in the middle of a cold war and he looks at the united states as his enemy. here's what's fascinating about that even as he looks at america as

his enemy, he sees donald trump as a friend. as a political ally. as a political tool so important to the furtherance of russia's needs that he helped all he could to elect him in 2016, and is going to do the same in 2020. he's going to try. and this really -- none would dare call it treason but trump's most shameless apologists still claim that there is nothing inappropriate between putin and trump's relationship they call it a russian hoax, clinging desperately to the steele dossier, look over here look at the bird look at the bird keep your eyes off what's right in front of you. keep your eyes off of what donald trump said in helsinki

saying he trusted an ex-kgb agent more than he trusted american professionals in the intelligence community despite the fact that america's allies in europe reportedly last week said that they were fearful of giving the united states classified information because donald trump would pass it on to vladimir putin hell, he did it before, inside the white house. russia's ambassador of the united states and the foreign minister and also, despite the fact that -- and sv dante tweeted this yesterday trump used russian stolen information every day in the final months of the 2016 election even though the trump campaign knew it was from russia and knew

it was stolen information. and no trump supporters have answered why not the white house, not the campaign, not a single trump supporter. why they did that over three years. no none there call it treason. i certainly would never do that. but i will tell you, that families of american troops fighting in afghanistan have known since friday, june the 26th, almost a month ago, that russ russia, that vladimir putin had put a bounty on the heads of their loved ones fighting to defend america's interests in afghanistan. and yet donald trump he hasn't said anything. think about that

the only comments he's made about this haven't been attacks at vladimir putin. they've been, wait for it, wait for it, just like helsinki wait for it, they've been attacks against the u.s. intelligence communi community, suggesting this was just bad intel maybe that's why it makes sense, that vladimir putin and russia sees america as an enemy but still considers donald trump one of their most reliable friends russia hoax, please. you'll eat those words in the coming years trump apologists. you shame yourself today, you'll shame yourself in the future go ahead, parrot that all you want the truth is out there

we'll see what it is some day, but we already know. vladimir putin wants to kill american troops. donald trump refuses to condemn him for it that's really all the information any of us need to know to see where donald trump's loyalties lie. we'll be right back. hey, can i... hold on one second... sure. okay... okay! safe drivers save 40%!!! guys! guys! check it out. safe drivers save 40%!!!

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i look at it -- i view it as a -- in a sense a wartime president. >> what do i say to americans who are scared, though >> i say you're a terrible reporter the problem is sometimes it's never enough i want them to be appreciative did you know i'm number one on facebook i just found out i was number one on facebook. that's nice. we continue to study the effectiveness of hydroxychloroquine and i say it, what do you have to lose, what do you have to lose take it. when somebody is the president of the united states, the

authority is total i see the disinfectant knocks it out in a minute, one minute, and is there a way we can do something like that by injection inside or almost a cleaning? >> good god. okay >> it's kind of like -- i mean, that -- so they're talking about starting that again. >> coming to a tv near you starting at 5:00 today. >> that's like surviving the hindenburg crash, getting to the ground looking up and saying i think this is the future of air travel why would you do that? >> he's got no out let, my personal analysis is that he can't have his rallies he can't get out and interact with people. keeps getting slammed for not wearing a mask so now he's going to do it during his coronavirus briefings. maybe not. maybe the scientists will speak, maybe he'll do the right thing

for america, i'm trying to be hopeful like you, joe. >> you think he'll follow the joe biden plan that joe biden laid out in january? >> that would be the smart thing. >> you're agreeing that he should follow the biden plan >> he should but i don't think he'll have the discipline i think it's very difficult for him when other people get the limelight and the credit >> i hope, i'll just say i hope for the sake of america that he follows the plan laid out by former vice president joe biden at the end of january where he said let the doctors, let the scientists lead the efforts -- >> he also said this was going to be big. >> -- yeah, also said that donald trump wasn't ready for a coming pandemic and all of his predictions in january ended up being true >> okay. so -- >> hopefully, though, again for the sake of seniors in florida and arizona and texas and all

americans that may be fighting covid and for small business owners and for parents who want their kids to get back to school. >> for pregnant mothers. >> follow the biden plan listen to your doctors, your scientists and let them lead this. >> it didn't have to be this way is something that often joe biden says >> he should have followed the biden plan from the beginning. >> john isle man is still with us and joining the discussion mike barnicle, peter baker and eugene robinson also with us, white house corresponde correspondent yamiche al sincinr >> peter baker once in a while mika will take me hiking >> he's an incredible hiker. >> no, i'm not

it's frightening when my children are with me, they're holding their breath hoping dad doesn't crawl. >> walk like a crab, get down. >> i think the fear that go through my children's hearts and minds when seeing that must be going through that of trump staffers as he gets ready to go out and start these briefings again. what can you tell us about why he's going to start the briefings again and is there a chance that he actually will defer more to doctors and scientists this time around since the last group of briefings were so disastrous for him politically? >> joe, that's a great wind up i'm picturing you in hiking boots right now and having a hard time focussing. is the president going to become a different person no, he's not he is who he is. we 'seen him on the public stage

for years. we know what this is going to be like starting at 5:00 today. his advisers may be crossing their fingers and hoping he doesn't trip on the rocks but he is who he is their calculation is, take the good with the bad, right, however risky it might be, it's better than the alternative, which is he's not getting his message out there right now, he doesn't have his campaign rallies as mika said, he doesn't have a venue for dominating the narrative and the coronaviruses did keep him out there front and center you heard kellyanne conway say that, his poll numbers were higher when he was doing the briefings. one reason they were higher you may argue is for a time, in march, about a week or so, he was taking it seriously and connecting with the public's fear about the virus if he goes out now and says the virus isn't there, we're dealing with embers, it may not help

we'll see. it's interesting when he said we were going to start this again, we were having big flare-ups in texas and arizona, not the same as embers. so there is an acknowledge of what's going on. the tacit acknowledge that the v virus is not behind us and the country is scared and wants to know what the government is going to do about it. >> he had to see the polls this weekend, fox news, nbc news "the washington journal" poll, all looking badly. mika, of course, i have figured out why hiking is a problem for me >> you're great at it. >> peter said stan smiths. maybe i shouldn't wear -- >> i'll get you hiking boots

yamiche, any more reporting on how this is coming about, the briefings at 5:00, will there be anything different will we hear perhaps primarily the science or -- >> the biden plan. >> -- do we expect the president riffing again? >> the president, as peter baker said, is not going to change so we expect the president using the white house briefing as a way for him to air his grievances, a way to vent about the fact he's not getting credit for how well he thinks he's handled the coronavirus outbreak we'll see a leaning on the scientist but they might be in a way his critics said props supporters will say he listened to the scientists, sometimes they steered him wrong people critical of the president will say these coronavirus task force briefings were a waste of

time for experts, including dr. anthony fauci who used to sit in the corner and have to listen to the president go on and on for hours. i was talking to a white house official yesterday and the person told me this, if president trump was a stock looking for a bottom, tulsa was his bottom that's where he hit rock bottom, he thought he was going to get this crowd on him that people around the country, including his supporters, were scared about the virus. so we've seen the president do an about face when it comes to strategy we're seeing masks are something he has to get behind in order to get behind the virus and put it in the rear view mirror. i'm not sure we'll see the president wear a mask throughout the briefing no one has done that, including vice president pence and kayleigh mcenany, they come to the podium and are unclothed i think you'll see the president

equate mask to pay trtriotism the last time we saw a robust briefing from the president was when he was talking about disinfectants and putting light if your body it was at that point the republicans signalled you have to put the briefings behind you because it's not helping the situation. >> tulsa is where it began, an arena that held more than double the people had 6,000 people. they couldn't fill the second level with people, squished people together so an event that was a bust for the president and, of course, they liked his packed arena, he expected a packed arena and was traumatized by what he saw everyone who knows trump says that he was livid at how few people showed up, but even more the irresponsibility and quite frankly endangering the lives on the part of the campaign of the people of tulsa by squishing

them together, removing the stickers that guide people on how to sit 6 feet apart. they removed the stickers, squashed them all sweaty, chanting, waving their arms, clapping, and spreading coronavirus throughout that entire arena to 6,000 people it was nuts. it was malpractice on every level in terms of the science. i don't think it did well for the president on any level and perhaps maybe that's when he realized the rallies aren't going to work. >> and they didn't work. so the president is trying to do several things right now to seem like he's in control of a situation that seems to spiral out of control more by the day, whether it's a health care crisis or law enforcement. president trump is planning to deploy federal agents to chicago

and threatening to do so in other democratic cities as well in an effort to decrease the violence started from george floyd's death. several governors and other officials reacted to donald trump's threat calling it an election year ploy calling his actions author tear nichl and vowing to stop him >> federal agents caused controversy after trump sent them to portland oregon where they were accused of violently attacking protesters and placing them in unmarked vans. trump said he would follow suit in philadelphia, new york, detroit, according to the chicago tribune, homeland security plans to deploy 150 agents to chicago this week. a specific plan on what the agents will be doing and what their limits would be have not been made public >> peter, you've been writing

about this, what's going on? >> listen to what the president is telling us is going on. he said clearly yesterday this was about, you know, liberal democratic mayors. he cast this in partisan terms saying liberal democrats have lost control of the cities he wasn't going to stand for it and linked it to his own re-election campaign in the fall saying if biden gets in p no one will be safe the campaign releases an ad with the same line. so this is a way to seek traction on an issue while he's trailing in the polls. the economy isn't a selling point, he wasn't want to talk about the coronavirus, so he's looking for a culture edge issue. most of the protests have been peaceful the crime, some places an uptick and other places far below where

it had been at its peak years ago. he's not working in conjunction with yomayors and governors to solve a problem, he had's looking to do it through politics of confrontation. >> it's like what happened on june 1st when he went in and busted up peacefully protesters to hold up a bible awkwardly in front of st. john's. it hurt him in the polls we have images of united states veterans walking up and talking to these police officers, or whatever they are, these unmarked officers, and asking, hey, what are you doing? do you have the constitutional right to do this, and then them beating the held out of this veteran. this veteran here's a video he went up just to ask what are you doing?

you don't have the constitutional right and then they start beating up, pepper spraying, and abusing this veteran of the united states na navy who had to go to the hospital i think his hand was broken. this is -- again, this is one of those 80/20 issues 80% of americans are going to be against this 20% of americans are going to be for it donald trump once again on the wrong side of history. >> absolutely. and you know, it didn't work for him june 1st, as you said. that hurt him in the polls and took away support. it's -- you know, the definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over again expecting different results. so we have the new coronavirus briefings. his poll ratings were higher in march when he started them but as he did them, his poll numbers went down because they

were so unhinged and obviously unhelpful and divorced from the reality of the coronavirus that americans were living. similarly, he's completely out of touch with where most of the country is on the issues of police violence and confronting systemic racism or at least acknowledging it and so this fight he's picking with these sort of goons -- federal goons, border patrol agents deployed in uniforms without insignia or names against the wishes of officials in portland, as peter baker said he's looking for another issue, something to talk about but he's picked one that, as far as i can tell, is not likely to help him. it's likely to hurt him more so just as a -- you know, this

is -- my former colleague ann applebalm called it informative authoritarianism so he's making a show of this unhinged use of force. >> beating up as we all know beating up veterans with unmarked goons in philadelphia which is his plan sure is going to help him in the philly suburbs come this fall no what is the guy thinking here is the picture of, again, the veteran going up and, you know, he went up and was saying -- here it is and he's going up talking to them, they push him back, asking what right do you have to do this the guy fought for this country and they beat him up while he's standing there and then they pepper spray him

this is what christopher had to say last night on "all in" >> the thing that was so upsetting was that there didn't seem to be any recognition that, as a veteran, i was even going to be listened to or treated any differently than anybody else and that sort of makes sense because if they're going to gas moms, they're going to beat up vets >> mike barnicle there are no words i mean, this is -- >> no. >> -- file this -- pushing the 75-year-old over in buffalo who was just standing there asking questions. this isn't america these goons running around unidentified, grabbing people, throwing them into cars, un, maed cars and then speeding off. this is, again, it's performative author tearism as

ann applebalm says >> now, you've gotten to the nub of the issue, the vet, chris, was self-identified, was self-identified as a veteran he's wearing a navy sweatshirt, he was wearing a u.s. navy cap, he was in the united states navy, and he wanted to have a polite, intelligent conversation with this federal police force on municipal streets of an emergency city, portland, oregon, he wanted a conversation and you saw what happened, everyone saw what happened and in the larger context of what's happening, especially with the president's threat yesterday as peter baker just mentioned to send this federal police force to the city of chicago, ironically run by a black female mayor and the president seems to have issues with any women, but especially a

black woman with power, lori lightfoot, the mayor of chicago. the police force is made up of tsa agents, i.c.e. agents, customs agents they have scant knowledge of how to operate as a police force on any street in this country and yet the president has indicated he wants to send them not only to chicago but new york, philadelphia and other cities and john heileman, i don't know about you, but i have not yet heard from the attorney general of the united states on the concept of a federal police force? a federal police force on municipal streets run by mayors. >> i haven't heard from the attorney general either but i'll guess, given past practice, will be on the side of donald trump here everything said about this particular issue is right but doesn't go far enough.

you know, we are talking -- this is not just performative authoritariani authoritarianism, these are paramilitary units these are the things we have seen in authoritarian regimes in third world countries throughout the second half of the 20th century. this is not a mystery what's going on here. i think to look at this through the prism of symbolic politics, the law and order campaign, trump trying to rerun the nixon play book is true but doesn't go far enough we're looking here, this is a dark, i don't want to be overly alarmist about this, but this is the time to be alarmist knowing where donald trump stands politically, understanding where we are headed in this election i think we are looking at potentially a trial run for a kind of -- a genuine attempt to, through intimidation, and potentially through force, to try to -- to try to steal this

election i think we are now at the point where we see the things that the president is doing, we see his intention to not accept an outcome of the election where he loses to joe biden he's making it very clear and some of it is rhetoric about mail-in voting but when the next thing, the next breath is he's talking about sending unmarked paramilitary guards to blue states with very blue cities run by democratic mayors, i think we should all take seriously the prospect that this is a dress rehearsal, a trial run for first an attempt at voter intimidation on election day. are these unmarked paramilitary units going to be doing security at the polls in battleground states i think that's a question we'd like to have answered. that is potentially an effort at voter intimidation and what happens in the overtime period anyone serious about the election recognizes, listening to the president, that there's a

high likelihood he's not going to concede if he loses on election night in those two and a half months, until january 20th, if donald trump lost the election, these things we're seeing now, the alarming, disturbing images, unmarked paramilitary units with no clear chain of command, identification, taking protesters driving them away in unmarked vehicles to who knows where, we should all be concerned about what this could portend for this fall and beyond >> yamiche, as we wrap up, what are you looking at today, especially leading up to 5:00 p.m., do you plan to be there? >> i will see if i get a seat in the briefing room. i can say there are two things i'm looking for. the first is what john heileman is talking about, are we going to learn more about portland,

how it's spreading around the united states. we're all focused on the virus, should be focused on the virus but the idea there are unmarked police vehicles taking protesters up, assaulting protesters, pepper spraying people, and there's no clear chain of where you go and what authority they're using, that's a scary thing. especially for someone whose parents came to america fleeing a dictate er, it's scary to think about the fact you could be a reporter on the street coffering the protest and somehow be assaulted by one of these police officers. so i think questions to president trump about that is critical and ahead of the 5:00 p.m., it's how is the president going to be dealing with the coronavirus pandemic going forward there's talk and negotiations going on about the coronavirus bill but i think i'm interested to hear if he's done an about face on the coronavirus, is he going to talk about how bad things have gotten and the new daily highs we're hitting in certain states, including

florida where the governor took the lead from the president and as a result his state is suffering. it'll be interesting to see if the president's tone not changes but adjusts blame to the reality of the situation and how is he going to talk about dr. fauci and the health experts are they going to be the ones leading today or is the president going to want to hear his own voice and defend himself, as we've seen him do in the past. >> yamiche and peter baker thank you both still ahead on "morning joe," joe biden puts the kremlin and other foreign governments on notice, warning against interference in the upcoming u.s. election and slamming the trump administration for failing to take action for russia's actions in 2016. you're watching "morngni joe." we'll be right back. usaa is made for what's next we're helping members catch up by spreading any missed usaa insurance payments over the next twelve months so they can keep more cash in your pockets

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loser? >> i'm not a good loser. i don't like to lose i don't lose too often. >> are you gracious? >> you don't know until you see. it depends i think mail-in voting is going to rig the election. i really do. >> are you suggesting that you might not accept the results of the election >> i have to see look, hillary clinton asked me the same thing. >> no, i asked you the same thing in the debate. >> there is a tradition in the country, that peaceful transition of power and no matter how hard fought a campaign is, at the end of the campaign that the loser concedes to the winner, not saying you're necessarily going to be the loser or the winner but the loser concedes to the winner and the country comes together in part for the good of the country, are you saying you're not prepared to commit to the principle? >> i'll tell you at the time i'll keep you in sus-spence. >> and he's the one who never

accepted it. >> i agree. >> she never accepted her loss and looks like a fool. >> are you going to concede the election >> no, you have to see i'm not going to say yes. >> democrats are trying to mess with election integrity across the country. the rnc is in 30-some odd suits where the democrats are trying to remove safeguards that will ensure that we feel confident in the election process i think the president is right to put democrats on notice they need to run a fair and safe slaeks to we all have confidence in the results >> it makes a lot of sense that after the polls close and the election's called you want to take a good hard look at exactly what happened. >> two of donald trump's allies, rnc chairwoman rona mcdaniel and hogan giddily picking up the president's strategy of sowing doubt. >> i've been around enough

campaigns that's how losers talk that's how people who know they're going to lose talk you have head of the rnc whining the way i've heard losers in both parties whine in the past when they know they're going to lose campaigns so they start complaining ahead of time. boy, that -- that's really got to make the donors of donald trump feel really good maybe this is why some of the biggest donors have given up on donald trump and given up on retaking the house and focussing on the united states senate. because they know donald trump is talking like a loser, acting like a loser his people are talking like losers, acting like losers donald trump knows he's going to lose he's preparing people. he's making excuses before the game is started. it's not even labor day. that's a whiner who knows

they're going to lose. >> and may not leave joining us guy cecil, also with us director of communications for hillary clinton's 2016 presidential campaign jennifer palm palmeri. she's out with a new book entitled "she proclaims" >> gene robinson, you have the first question but i wanted to ask you first whether you believe that republicans that have followed donald trump halfway into the political wilderness will complete that journey and put themselves in a permanent political wilderness by, as chris wallace said, turning their backs on the democratic tradition of accepting the peaceful transition of power from one party to another

>> you know, joe, it's hard to imagine they'll go that far but it's hard to imagine they've come as far as they've come. so far i've seen no evidence of the growth of backbones among republicans who are willing to say enough is enough this is the most sort of un-american thing i have heard from donald trump, and that says a lot. the idea that he's somehow going to try to -- not to obey the will of the voters and not to accept the results of the election, which he clearly knows are not likely to be for him you're absolutely right that this is the way losers talk. people who know they're going to lose and this idea that he's somehow not going to accept the loss, well, how does that work

exactly? because -- and -- especially if it's the kind of margin that potentially it could be, you know, he'll look, i think, like a fool but -- and those who stand with him will look like fools, but jen palmeri, how do you look at this do you see this as a serious threat to the sort of orderly transmission of administrations that we've been accustomed to for 200 years? >> sure. particularly since he showed us in june what he's willing to do. encourage governors to use the national forward, tear gas americans at lafayette square so he can do a photo op if we want to look at things that reassure us about how

america may respond if he does try to refuse to accept the results of the election, i think june was a good dry run. governors didn't pick up his charge to try to deploy the national guard this way. you saw former military leaders come out and speak against him and now in coronavirus, where he's failing to lead, you see republican governors after failing grossly to not manage the situation well in their own states defy trump and try to, you know, finally protect their people so that suggests to me that there are elements in our democracy that will rise to the occasion, if he does refuse to accept the elections and we know, we've been through this drill. we know what he's prepared to do i think november and december -- >> that's correct. >> -- of 2020, you know --we'r going to have to brace for a really trying time for the republic >> mike barnicle

>> guy, as you know, the president loves to use words like weak when he describes democrats all over the country, especially now democrat mayors in cities where he's sending federal goon squads. is there anything in your polling that you do that indicates the public's attitude with regard to weak, strong, what they think of trump in those terms? and to run a polling operation and everything else you do in your organization requires substantial sums of money. i'm wondering is the money that comes in to you this year, is it coming in in volumes that are bigger and different and faster than in years prior? >>, you know, i think despite what donald trump thinks about the american people. most americans think he is a weak leader. that he has downplayed the threat of coronavirus, that he has stoked racial tension. you do not do these things out of a position of strength.

you do them because you are a weak person. and by the way, there's a lot of conversation about what donald trump will do after the election, but let's talk about what donald trump and the republican national committee are doing now to screw with the election they are recruiting 40,000 poll watchers they are not recruiting poll watchers to make sure people have equal access or to help them be able to cast a vote. they're doing it to intimidate voters they have spent $25 million in lawsuits not to protect the right to vote but to shrink the right to vote. that's where priorities as one organization of many we committed $32 million to litigation to fight republican efforts to suppress the vote and make it more difficult to vote in terms of resources, we have raised about $185 million, which is certainly a lot of money, but in the context of what donald trump and republicans have been

doing, there's still no question that we need to do more to make sure we are driving people to vote by mail, early vote, doing what we can to prepare for the administration of this election. and just as a reference point, the trump campaign has already spent a billion dollars preparing for the next three months in litigation, yes, and some trump hotel fees, but we need to make sure that, you know, the way i think about this is every time someone mentions a poll where democrats are doing well, we should have to put ten bucks into the swear jar and remember 2016 and focus on the work ahead part of that work is fighting voter suppression, fighting the republican party attempts to decide who gets to vote and doesn't get to vote in november. >> it's always a mistake to look back at polls and try to compare one election to another because so many things are moving, but i've seen stories about past huge leads and i remember very

well, 1988, michael duekakis going out with a double digit lead, i remember hillary clinton having a double digit lead if an -- i believe it was an abc "the washington post" poll in the final month of the campaign. it ain't over until it's over and guy cecil, i'm wondering, we've heard stories of these 40,000 poll watchers which again chances are very good if donald trump is involved it'll be more like poll intimidatorintimidato democratic national committee doing the same thing are they going to be recruiting 40,000 poll watchers to make sure that every american gets the chance to vote >> not just the democratic national committee but other organizations like stacy abrams' fair fight which is on the front lines making sure under represented communities, communities of color, young

people all get to vote so there's a concerted organized effort on our side to ensure where litigation is required we're litigating where recruitment of volunteers is needed we're doing that work. but this is an all hands on deck moment this is not just one or two ways you can intimidate the vote, we have had to fight not just in the deep south we had lawsuits in wisconsin, ohio, in nevada, in indiana, in missouri all of these laws designed to make it more -- our home state, joe, up until last year when priority sued the state of florida was prohibiting public colleges and universities from serving as early vote locations despite every other building could serve as an early voting location why? because they are intentionally and significantly trying to

decide to choose their electorate because they know they're losing with the electorate that we have right now. >> guy cecil, thank you very much jen palmeiri let's talk about your book, tell us where it came from, i believe it might have been inspired from a moment of realization, maybe a know your value moment >> mika, as far as it was. i never thought of myself as a woman in a man's world i had one conversation with my one mika during the 2016 campaign and i was complaining about how low campaign salaries were, and you interrupted me and you said, i can tell you are not paid what you are worth, and i was like -- and i said nothing to you about what i was making or how it compared to men.

and it just -- and you said, and then -- i can't remember exactly but you said, this is very clear to me, it's written all over your face. >> that's -- i tend to do that. >> you did and it just devastated me because i knew -- like any e p epyny, it's something you don't want to recognize and it said to me, everything i thought that made me valuable, you don't care how much you make you're happy to be in the work place, you get it done, they can count on you but you don't advocate for yourself i called six people on the way home and said mika said this to me, and she sathey said she's r. i was per pep chaiting this man's world that blocks out women and people of color from having the success they should

i was making it run well for them and what women need to know, which you know and pro claim all the time, is when you are not advocating for yourself, when you're accepting less than your worth you're not just hurting yourself, you're hurting everyone marginalized in the work place as far as women have come in the last 100 years, as men have tried to help us, i've had male mentors, we've only come so far. we followed a man's path, it got us so far but now we're in a rut. and that's why the book, we need to sound like and dress like men and, of course, you need to question your worth and that's why you have to set that aside and declare that you're no longer going to be dependent on a male model for your success, you're going to create your own. >> i'm really -- the look of horror on your face when i said

that to you, i went home saying she's never going to speak to me again. instead, you wrote a book that you read after know your value and it takes it a step further and goes through the process the new book is "she proclaims." i'm so glad you talked to me again. jen palmieri thank you so much on the book. it's fan tsa i it's fantastic. >> now to a number of legal stories in in the news this morning. michael cohen and the aclu filed a 21 page lawsuit arguing cohen was locked up again after being released on home confinement due to the coronavirus because he made public his intention to publish a tell all book before the november election. corrections officers told cohen he had to agree not to communicate with the media or

public a book. while he was waiting on having that condition revoked, they revoke his release instead the question of why federal officials said cohen could not write a book was raised by former assistant u.s. attorney daniel goldman back on july 10th right here on "morning joe." >> what jumps out to me is it's very odd that a condition of home confinement is you cannot publish a book you can publish a book from prison there's nothing that says you can't do that if you're writing in prison and apparently he wrote most of the book in prison you can send it to a publisher and the publisher can publish it that strikes me as odd and particularly strikes me as odd in the context of president trump trying twice, over the past month, to sequel be books by john bolton and his niece, mary trump, that this would be a condition of his home confinement is odd and i'd be

curious if any other conditions of home confinement for the people released on home confinement because of covid, includes some clause along the lines. >> dave, it's a strange, strange case donny deutsch, who's close friends with michael cohen, who's known him for a long time, talked to the family, got the information about what happened and from everything i've heard as well, they called him in and said, hey, we don't think you should write the book. cohen, according to people really close to him, said well, i should -- there's nothing in the guidelines that say i can't write a book basically said what daniel had just said in that tape and while he was waiting to see if he was allowed to write a book, they came in and said we're taking you back to jail.

does this strike you as out of line as strange as inconsistent with what you've heard how things like this were treated in the past? >> yeah, joe, this is the increased roy cohen-ization of the department of justice. william barr was there to be president trump's defender not the attorney general of the united states. he's the one that under mined the mueller report, so we shouldn't be surprised he's undermining the first mendment i think the tell here is back at the end of april one of president trump's lawyers went to michael cohen and told him that an nda he signed prevented him from publishing a book michael cohen's response was i didn't sign an nda, produce it this is the same tactic they used with mary trump, it didn't work the difference is michael cohen was sent back to prison.

so paul manafort is at home enjoying home confinement, michael flynn is free, roger stone is free and michael cohen is in solitary confinement this really smells bad. >> really interesting. another issue we're looking at is the st. louis couple who became worldwide news after waving guns at protesters outside their home last month and they were charged on monday with gun crimes. they each face a single felony count of unlawful use after authorities say he pointed an ar-15 rifle at protesters, and she wielded a semiautomatic handgun, placing those protesters in if fear of injury and the protestersby all reports were quite peaceful. what do you think of this? >> mika, in missouri, it is a

felony to wave a gun in a threatening way at people unless it's in self-defense so the question is, was it self-defense was the gate broken or open? the video suggests the gate was open and passable. so the protesters walked in peacefully then the question is, who initiated the confrontation? again the video seems to suggest that it was the mccloskeys who threw out words to the protesters and brandished their guns at them and finally did they have a reasonable fear of their life because if so they can take advantage of the castle doctrine the video seems to suggest the protesters entered peacefully and were walking away from the property and it was the homeowners who started it all. that's why i think that the prosecutor here, kim gardner, has a good case. don't expect you'll see these folks in handcuffs or jail any

time soon because they're being offered a diversion program. even if they rolled the dice and went to trial, the governor said he will pardon them, this is part of the culture wars so instead of seeing them in jail, i think the next time the next e the mccloskeys is making a speech at the republican national convention. >> good guess, if they have one. >> dave aronberg, thank you very much. amid reports of russia, china and other foreign governments actively attempting to interfere in the 2020 elections, joe biden published a lengthy statement on the issue yesterday, saying in part, quote, foreign interference in the u.s. electoral process represents an assault on the american people and their constitutional right to vote that is why today i am putting the kremlin and other foreign governments on notice. if elected president, i will treat foreign interference in our election as an adversarial

act. i have no desire to escalate tensions with russia or any other country but if any foreign power chooses to recklessly interfere in our democracy, i will not hesitate to respond to impose substantial and lasting costs. meanwhile, democratic leaders are worried about members of congress being targeted by a foreign interference campaign and are asking the fbi for an urgent briefing the letter to thefbi director reads, in part, we are gravely concerned, in particular, that congress appears to be the target of a concerted foreign interference campaign which seeks to launder and amplify disinformation in order to influence congressional activity, public debate and the presidential election in november. >> let's bring in one of the members of congress who wrote that letter, chairman of the house intelligence committee, congressman adam schiff of california congressman, thanks for being

with us. mike barnicle is here and has the first question mike >> mr. chairman, according to the news reports, part of that letter implies that russians might be funneling information to senator ron johnson and his committee in the united states senate, undergoing joe biden and his family is that accurate and what is your response if it is accurate? >> i can't go into the underlying information, as you can imagine, but it was exactly four years ago that senator feinstein and i issued a public letter warning the russians were then beginning to interfere in the 2016 election. and now we have the same concern that, once again, a foreign power, foreign powers may be seeking and may be using some of the same modalities and they may be using new techniques such as laundering information through congress with the intent of interfering and affecting our election we think all the members of congress should be made aware of

it so none are unwitting of what the foreign nations may be doing to try to influence our election and we can take steps. we know the president isn't going to we know the president will invite anyone that helps him the statement you just read from joe biden, that's what a president says to try to deter and discourage foreign intervention we're not going to get that from the existing president the best thing we can do in congress is initially arm members of congress with information so they're not manipulated or used to propagate russian or other disinformation. also, i think the country needs to be informed >> all right mr. chairman, david sanger, one of the authors of "the times" report today indicated "the times" believes that within this letter is a reference to senator ron johnson and his committee having been funneled information from a foreign source.

would that surprise you if a member of the republican party in the united states senate were getting information from foreign sources with regard to tampering with our election? >> this is an issue we brought up during the impeachment. you'll recall dr. fiona hill how members of congress were propagating a russian fiction, in that case about ukraine interfering in the election. the import of that testimony and others was that the president and his accolades in congress were stoking this conspiracy theory that was of russian ot r origin if there are issues like that, if there is intelligence suggesting the russians or any other power are similarly trying to influence u.s. politics, in this case the u.s. election,

congress needs to beaware of i and ultimately the congress needs to be aware of it. we have to take steps, i think, to deter that. we can't count on president trump, someone who begged the president of china to help his campaign, who invited russia to do so in 2016 and who will not safeguard our vote i will say i think the order of your segments today is exactly the right order. that is a paramount threat to our elections is within. it's from a president that's attacking absentee ballots and his party officials who are discrediting millions of votes in advance but second to that you have the problem of foreign intervention of those destructive effort. >> gene robinson's with us gene has a question for us gene >> congressman schiff, we talk about -- potentially we're talking about the russians you always indicate potential

other actors is there information that other nations may also be trying to interfere with our election? >> there is. now, you know, i think it's fair to sometimes equate what one nation is doing with another nation because they don't do the same techniques or tactics some nations may use, you know, very kind of overt ways of influence that we would anticipate public statements or, you know, the case of china, for example, it may utilize relationships it has or it may utilize trade negotiations, and other nations may operate differently. the russians may get involved in hacking and dumping operations or social media campaigns. the iranians may have their own tactics and techniques like the north koreans may have theirs. there is different kinds of interference, some much more worrisome than others.

>> congressman adam schiff, thank you very much. a lot to worry about in the months ahead still ahead from tweeting a photo of himself in a face mask to resuming his coronavirus press briefings, is it all an admission from the president that his re-election campaign is failing? >> i think the question a lot of people are asking is, when he starts his coronavirus briefings again -- >> it's a big question. >> -- will he follow the benid plan "morning joe" coming right back. ...to soccer practices... ...and new adventures. you hope the more you give the less they'll miss. but even if your teen was vaccinated against meningitis in the past... they may be missing vaccination for meningitis b. let's help protect them together. because missing menb vaccination could mean missing out on a whole lot more. ask your doctor if your teen is missing meningitis b vaccination.

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republican lawmakers reportedly believe the white house press briefings may be hurting the president and the party. >> well, we had very successful briefings. i was doing them. >> "the new york times" reports gop lawmakers and its administration officials want the president to limit his briefing appearances and concentrate on both economic recovery and his re-election

>> and we had a lot of people watching, record numbers watching in the history of cable television/television, there's never been anything like it. >> quoting from the "times" article, mr. trump sometimes drowns out his own message, said senator lindsey graham of south carolina graham reportedly told the president that, quote, a once a week show would be much more effective. >> we're going to give you a lot of briefings in the next week and next few weeks i'll get involved and we'll start doing briefings. >> senator shelley more capato said the briefings were going off the rails and he should let the health professionals guide them. >> we'll probably start tomorrow we'll do it at 5:00. we had a good slot. >> jonathan lemire, your story in the associated press, this campaign team implored the president to stop holding the daily briefings because they know what's clear to most people, which is they're not

helping his poll standing and he replied by saying, but my tv ratings, the ratings are huge. >> a lot of people were watching and that's a good thing. >> but a good thing for whom back in april, we reported on republicans' major concerns that trump was inflicting severe damage to his re-election prospects in those daily coronavirus briefings. soon after the briefings went away but now three months later, unable to hold his rallies and floundering in the polls, president trump announces that televised briefings are back >> so, here's the question this can go one of two ways. it can go very badly, which if you could put money in vegas on going very badly for the president and the american people, i think that's where -- since past is prologued, most people would put their money there. but there is the possibility he

could follow the advice of joe biden in an op-ed that joe biden wrote, at the end of january when joe biden said, let your scientists speak, let your doctors speak. again, everybody, this was -- this was the end of january when joe biden said we were not prepared for a pandemic and listen to your experts, listen to your scientists this is when the president was saying, it's one person coming in from china, and soon it's going to go away and saying china was doing such an extraordinary job and the people of the united states, they want to congratulate president xi the question is, will he follow joe biden's advice six months later and 140,000 deaths later, and actually hold hearings where we could hear dr. fauci who, you

know, 65, 70% of americans trust on the coronavirus, while only 20%, 25% trust donald trump. will he do the right thing and all allow dr. fauci to lead these? will he allow dr. birx to be there with dr.e allow other epidemiologists, maybe bring in scott gottlieb and others to help with this process, or is he just going to go out there and go back to his colorox variety programming hour that's not good for americans. that's not good for the president of the united states we've got an outbreak, a health care pandemic, and it's getting worse across the country in red state america so, we need leadership in washington we need, mr. president, for you to do what joe biden asked you

to do six months ago when he said in an op-ed, you're not prepared for this pandemic when you said it's one person from china and it's going away and five months later there's 15 people and down to zero. 140,000 people are dead. joe biden six months ago was saying, listen to your doctors, listen to your scientists. let them lead this process and talk to the american people. will you finally follow the biden plan for the good of america -- >> can i answer? >> listen, we never know what's going to happen. i've talked about john wayne's deathbed conversion. maybe donald trump will do what is best for the health of america because maybe he'll admit, maybe he'll admit that he's been wrong every step of the way. maybe he'll admit that he was wrong for saying that this was going away a couple months ago

maybe he'll admit that this is going to continue into the fall. you remember even back in april he was saying this wasn't -- dr. fauci said this would be with us in the fall, there would be a second wave in the fall the president was saying, no, this will go away. maybe hope springs eternal maybe we get the john wayne deathbed conversion to catholicism, in this case medicine and science and save american lives. >> you won't get that but maybe we'll hear from the doctors. >> it reminds me of the pink floyd album cover. maybe pigs will fly over smokestacks in great britain. >> hopefully the doctors will speak. hopefully he'll use them as an outlet because he has nowhere else to go and riff. >> i hope he follows the biden plan and i know that most americans, even as supporters hope he'll

follow the biden plan because the biden plan at the end of january laid the pathway forward for this country to do so much better than it's been doing. again, i'm not one of these people that say, you know, hey, he got it wrong at the beginning, so forget it -- no. if he can -- if he can go the right way, if he can follow the advice in july, john heilemann, that joe biden wrote in the "usa today" in an op-ed at the end of january, think about the difference that would make for small business owners, for restaurateurs, people that have owned family businesses for generations, that have seen it going away we know so many people, all of our friends who are just fighting to survive. they would love him to follow the biden plan even if republicans and

conservatives to listen to the scientists, listen to the doctors. it would give them a fighting chance to survive economically, to get kids back crse, most imp save the lives of so many senior citizens just follow the biden plan doesn't that make the most sense? >> absolutely. and i think -- the only question i have for you, joe, is does he need to call it the biden plan and acknowledge that it is the biden plan and whatever he refers to, describe it as the biden plan, or does he just need to do it and acknowledge it's the biden plan once or maybe not acknowledge it's the biden plan at all i feel like he should really say from the outset, ladies and gentlemen, i have reflected on this period and i have decided i'm embracing in the spirit of bipartisanship the one place we will not have a fight or brawl

in this campaign, so in the spirit of leading the country and unifying the nation, i'm backing the biden plan. >> i don't think he'll do that. >> that's not happening. >> i certainly don't think he's going to say, i'm going to follow the biden plan that joe biden put in writing in january, but even if he doesn't call it the biden plan or the january 28, 2020 -- whatever even if he doesn't call it the biden plan, to follow the advice of doctors and scientists and let them lead in these discussions, even if he doesn't call it the biden plan, he could actually, though -- he could just embrace it and do it and not call it the biden plan because it's for the good of the country. >> sure. >> you look right now and you look politically we've been saying it i mean, he could call it the joe and mika plan if that made him

feel any better because we've been saying since march -- we've been saying since march, take care of the health care crisis that will take care of the economic crisis. that will take care of your political crisis we've said it repeatedly he hasn't listened to us you know that makes me sad but, listen, he doesn't have to repeat that. i mean, we're only one of like 800 billion people who have been saying that. he seems to be -- republicans are even saying that now, but the question is this, john, i mean, this could go very well or very badly if he decides to go the route of joe biden, what he suggested, i'm being dead serious here, could this be one of those moments where back in 2016 he understood he was in trouble and he showed self-discipline for brief periods of time as fight

doctor said of riddick bowe, the man is displaying spasms of lucidity, could we see a riddick bowe moment where donald trump understands. i don't care about any of them, i don't care about the pandemic, i'd rather talk about the economy. but in a spasm of lucidity, donald trump decides, i'm going to listen to what joe biden told me i should have done six months ago without giving him credit for and i'm going to let the doctors, and i'm going to let the health care professionals and i'm going to let the scientists who have been right every step of the way, lead this discussion >> well, joe, i think you suggested before that -- you made a comment about a pink floyd album and pigs and taking flight you know, is it possible it's possible. you know, possible in the realm of possibility as with the pigs, you know i keep looking

i'm watching for them. i haven't seen one yet but i'm not giving up hope there will be some pigs flying by. >> so, again, taking this politically, taking this seriously, do you think that donald trump lacks the capacity that he had even in 2016 to at times, especially after the comey letter, understand he needed to be quiet and he told people around him, i just need to shut up and let news events carry the day and stay out of the way. you know better than most, he made that calculated decision. is he incapable of doing that four years later when it comes to this health care crisis >> i would say, joe, that i do not know whether he is capable or not, but i would say we have seen no evidence he is capable i think we've seen significant mounds, piles of evidence that he has slipped in terms of his ability to summon the moments of lucidity you just talked about

and moments of discipline you just talked about. does that mean it's outside of his capacity does that mean in the face of -- is it possible somewhere deep within him he will locate some hidden reservoir of lucidity and discipline he once sporadically displayed four years ago it is possible just on the basis of how he is talking about it, you know, you hear -- i take the president -- you know, we've said before, confession to projection with donald trump it's one of the two. when he talks about these things, he doesn't play hide the ball you listen to the man, he tells you what he thinks about stuff and he's not a complex guy to read he said yesterday that he wants to get back on the air to talk about this stuff because it had high ratings he did have high ratings millions of people watched those briefings this winter and spring millions you know, like "bachelor" level millions watched them.

do i think that he -- the reason he's coming back on is because he thinks that he was good in those briefings? he thinks he was persuasive, powerful spokesman he feels like what happened is there was a period of time where he had more control over the public perception of this virus and this crisis that he had after he left the stage. he's remounting the stage now because he thinks he will do a better job than anyone else at explaining what's going on with this thing, why it's not anything to be feared, why everybody -- why it's all fake news and why we're all overflowing it and why the stats are wrong and why america is doing great. i think he thinks he's the best messenger for himself. i don't think he thinks he was a disaster politically back in the winter and spring when he was on television every day i don't think that do i think he's going to behave markedly different than winter and spring as you said, hope springs

eternal, anything's possible. >> still ahead on "morning joe," coronavirus appears to have caught up with florida's retirees months after governor ron desantis brushed off concerns you're watchin"mg orning joe." sr what you need. i wish i could shake your hand. granted. only pay for what you need. ♪ liberty. liberty. liberty. liberty. ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ the open road is open again. and wherever you're headed, choice hotels is there. book direct at choicehotels.com. ♪

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we want to give you awe snapshot of where the country is with the coronavirus numbers, they continue to spike all over the nation as nearly 69,000 cases were recorded in the past 24 hours kansas yesterday reached more than 1,000 new cases a single day record for that state. alaska reported its own single day record with 137 new cases. and minnesota also recorded records. 900 new cases and reported its first virus-related death of a child. at least eight other states, alabama, florida, georgia, nevada, kentucky, north dakota, arkansas and montana reported

new record highs for coronavirus-related hospitalizations yesterday as did puerto rico. kentucky's governor announced he is limiting social gatherings to ten people, announcing, quote, we don't want to become arizona or florida in los angeles, mayor eric garcetti said his city is on the brink of returning to shutdown mode and chicago has already rolled back some reopening rules. as coronavirus cases spike across florida, the outbreak has caught up with residents at one of america's biggest retirement communities there. since the beginning of july, hospital admissions of residents at the villages, a sprawling retirement community of 120,000 in central florida, have quadrupled, that's four times. as of last week, more than 1,100 covid-19 cases were reported in and around the sprawling

retirement community the villages had initially seemed to escape the worst of the virus and at one point had been a point of pride for republican governor desantis who pushed back in april, brushing off concerns at the risk of the retirement community. >> that's why you go to a place like the villages. there were articles written, the villages is going to crash and burn they have a 2.5% infection rate. we tested 1,200 asymptomatic and none were found to have the virus. >> by early july the infection rate at the villages had jumped to 9%. >> john heilemann, ron desantis, you have to put him out there as exhibit 1 -- >> most wrong ever. >> i saw a lot of people, influencers, so-called influencers early on saying, where does ron desantis go to get his apology?

i saw articles in pro-tump publication, where does desantis go to get his apology, where does brian kemp go to get his apology? every doctor has been telling us through the spring, this is a nine-inning game we're in the second inning of a nine-inning game these clips of ron desantis being so painfully wrong, not only about the villages but about the state of florida, is just a good example of why every politician and every school board member and every doctor should keep their head down. it reminds me of the iraq war, you know people cheering, oh, we're doing great. oh, it's horrible. oh, the surge will never work. and then people supporting the surge said, oh, look -- you know, it was like tennis going back and forth and back and forth. in this case it's just gone

straight down and desantis is a great example of how we all need to understand. this is a nine-inning game and maybe we're in the fourth inning by now we still have a long way to go >> yeah, nine-inning game in a 162-game season. we joke at the end of april and the end of may and you look at the standings, back when we had baseball with some regularities, the team in first place in may, let's wait until september and talk about the pennant race. we talk about pigs flying, in desantis' case, there were a lot of eggs counted before they hatch. there's a lesson to be learned by all politicians, you never know how long the game is going to be but that humility and a sense of being -- not getting

into the bragadocious game, the donald trump game is smart politics and everything lives forever on the internet and there's videotape. you think someone who gets to be the governor of florida knows there's zero upside in trying to claim credibility early. if you're proven right down the line, you'll get the political benefits, whether you boasted about them -- about your success early or in the midway through you know, just -- take your time you think desantis would know that you also think he would know that by making those claims you're risking an enormous amount you're leaving all that videotape out there. this will come back to haunt you in the ads in the bruit political sense. apparently he did not understand that look, he's now -- he's now going to be crushed, i think, by -- we all hope for florida that things get better no one wants to see any additional pain or suffering on the part of floridans or anyone else i think there is a lot of shock and fear out there as you look

at ron desantis, these other governors didn't try to do that, take a victory lap in the third or fourth inning as you see what's playing out there, you think to yourself, man, those clips are going to live forever and they're going to be a political millstone around his neck when he stands for re-election. he's not up until 2022 but those are going to leave a mark on ron desantis. coming up on "morning joe," we'll take a look at the new reporting from a vulnerable community along the southern border that's in the midst of a massive coronavirus outbreak "t nheew york times" caitlyn dickerson joins us next with that reporting how about no no uh uh, no way

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a "new york times" dispatch from a texas hospital at the southern border shows a dire situation there. ambulances stacking up outside emergency rooms, patients waiting for beds a section for pregnant women with the virus has expanded twice, with some women having to begin labor in their cars because the unit was full. in the rio grande valley it's a perfect storm that has led to a

punishing surge in infection where more than a third of families live in poverty nearly half of the residents have no health insurance and the rates of obesity and heart disease are among the highest in the country joining us now, the reporter who filed that story for "the new york times," caitlin dickerson ciatlin, horrifying. is there any hope in sight for this hospital? >> well, unfortunately, mika, we did get the news yesterday that hidalgo county issued a shelter-at-home order again. what i heard over and over while reporting in the region is people in the early months of the pandemic took governor abbott's shelter-in-place order seriously. so many people in this community who don't have health insurance or don't have legal immigration status, so they avoid the health

care system at all costs and try to keep themselves healthy, and were taking the shelter in place seriously. once it expired in may, people were told it was okay to gather again. this is a tight-knit family community. they see each other for dinner multiple times a week. the virus has been spreading unabated since may here we are yesterday, late july, one county reinstitutes one of these orders. it's very late we already have 12,000 active cases in the region. things will get worse, unfortunately, before they get better. >> eddie glaude, jump in >> thank you for your reporting on this issue. what are some grassroots organizations doing in the rio grande area to respond to the crisis and given the failure of the local government and the

state? >> i think grassroots groups are trying to give people advice about how to move through the community safely, which is, you know, to do so as little as possible when you do, do it wearing a mask, wearing a face shield. i did see that start to shift. i would go to target to get my colorox and i would see people in target wearing masks and face shields. the problem is the grassroots organizations are having to go against what the state government and the local government up until yesterday was advising people. that's a very difficult narrative. you understand, it's hard for people to know, the government is telling you one thing, this advocacy group is telling you another. i haven't worked in several months i need to feed my family who do i believe >> caitlin dickerson, thank you for your reporting still ahead, last year "the atlantic" asked staff writer

anne applebaum a piece on, is democracy dying? her new book provides a clue to err answ that's next. experience the adventure of a bigger world in a highly capable lexus suv at the golden opportunity sales event. lease the 2020 nx 300 for $339 a month for 36 months. experience amazing at your lexus dealer. with spray mopping to lock away debris and absorb wet messes, all in one disposable pad. just vacuum, spray mop, and toss.

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a british parliament report released today says the uk government failed to investigate russian influence in its elections. as "the new york times" frames the report, russia weaponized information to interfere in the british political system and was widely ignored by successive governments. the report states in part, quote, it is notable that a number of members of the house of lords have business interests linked to russia or work directly for major russian companies linked to the russian state. these relationships should be carefully scrutinized given the potential for the russian state to exploit them. joining us now, staff writer at

"the atlantic" magazine, anne applebaum. her latest book entitled "twilight of democracy" is out today and mike barnicle is back with us as well. >> anne, thanks for being with us what an extraordinarily important subject to write about. of course, your voice, the best out there to discuss this issue. let me ask you first of all about the lore of totalitarianism, the lore of authoritarianism what is in that lore that has people in poland, the people of hungary, the people who dealt with the soviet union from, you know, '45 through '89, to move away from democracy. it seems to make no sense for a lot of us in the west.

>> so, actually, my book is making a broader and more dramatic argue than that namely, awe authoritarianism has lure for all of us there are reasons why democracy bothers some people. the argument, the constant debate, the institutions that sometimes don't live up to what they're supposed to do people become disappointed in these kinds of political systems and then they seek alternatives. and they join political parties that have awe authoritarian ideologies or practices. so, this is a -- this is something we all need to be aware of look historically, all

democracies have failed. sooner or later, each one of our democracies may come to -- may meet a crisis. ours met one before in the 19th century. that's what the civil war was. it was part of the nation not wanting to be bound by the same rules as the other part. we can't ever imagine that it's impossible that that could ever happen again >> now, is this a new phenomenon or have we always had, let's say, a third of our populous that was more attracted to authoritarian leadership we're talking about it because trump did the got a few more votes in wisconsin and michigan than hillary clinton. >> i don't think this is just about trump. there are some people for whom the system of checks and balances, for whom the constant noise and anger of democracy are bothersome and annoying and they would like leaders to come to

power who can make them shut up. you know, we -- we could face that threat from the left. we could face it from the right. at the moment, i think there are as spe aspects of the trump administration that are extremely worrying trump very deliberately seeks to speak to and attract people whod chaos of democracy this is why he uses this expression law and order, which sometimes he tweets in capital letters. i suspect this is why he sent federal troops to portland so he could stage in a way that will then be on television a scene of kind of federal troops putting down protesters. that will please some of his viewers and voters >> well, this is not just about donald trump, the point of my past question. there is -- there seem to be a

segment of our population that have always been more attracted to authoritarian thinking. that said, people i have grown up who voted for gerald ford, who voted for george h.w. bush, who voted for ronald reagan twice. this right/center right group of voters that you discuss in this book are now moving towards a more nationalist view and are some of the same people who call me at least once a week and say, hey, joe, i saw how people are getting phone calls and being told they're testing positive when they haven't even taken a coronavirus test all these other absurd conspiracy theories suggesting that what they're reading on facebook is proving the coronavirus is, in fact, a hoax. >> so, look, one of the themes of the book is the power of

conspiracy theory and the way in which conspiracy theories can be used to mold politics. we all have this idea that -- you can create doubt in your own institutions, you can create negativity about your own society, you can create a lack of faith in your own country by using conspiracy theories that are designed to so doubt and distrust i saw that first happen in poland i wrote about it in the book and "the atlantic" piece that you referenced at the beginning how a conspiracy theory was used to make people doubt the patriotism of their own government. we can see how it functions in this ountry. people read conspiracy theories and that leads them to doubt science, to doubt medicine, to doubt all kinds of institutions

that we used to trust. we do see how donald trump plays on that. look, when he attacks the bu bureaucracy, attacking the fbi, cia, judges, let alone media, this is a political tactic that awe authoritarians useall over the world. then you create an alternative or different political system. >> forgive me if i'm -- it sounds like i'm repeating a question here. i'm trying to understand, why are highly educated friends of mine, who actually have moderate temperaments, who were the type of people that are good parents, good members of the community,

good americans, why do they believe the most bizarre conspiracy theories that could be undermined in three minutes on google? that's why i say, you've just got to look at google. it can't happen here yes, it can happen here. it is happening here i've got to admit, i just don't understand why because these people went to really good schools. none of them have postgraduate degrees. they went to the finest military academies. they serve their countries these are those with moderate temperaments not running around the michigan state legislature with semi-automatic weapons. >> that's the question i started my book with why are people who i know, friends of mine, who were in my house, how did they -- what

journey did they take, what process did they have to go through in order to become -- in my state i start with poland, in order to become part of a political party that seeks to pack courts and undermine the media. what was the mental transformation and there isn't one answer there's usually a series of answers. and the answers have to do with sometimes ambition, sometimes a conviction that society is going downhill sometimes it's a kind of apocalyptic pessimism. our country is changing. it's changing in ways i can't control. i need to stop it. sometimes it's the -- sometimes people have identified with a group or a tribe and they no longer trust messages or information or google fact checks or whatever it is you would use. they only trust information that comes from the sources they trust. this is how the lack of trust functions. if you can undermine people's

face in authentic information, you know, then you can begin to feed them with all kinds of things >> anne, from your experience studying this and living in countries around the world that struggle, what are the biggest warning signs you see happening in america, if any >> so, i think first of all -- as i've said, the president's rhetoric, the deliberate attempts to undermine trust in existing institutions. second of all, the fact that so many of his senior party members, and i'm not talking about voters voters have all kinds of reasons why they vote one side or the other. but why senior republican senators, why members of trump's cabinet don't push back when he says things they know to be false. when he attacks the cia, when he

goes on stage with the russian president and seems to undermine reporting from his own intelligent services why don't they stand up and say, why haven't they stood up for his -- against his abuse of power? we have all now sweeped this ukraine impeachment report and discussion under the table that was a very serious and in some ways bizarre breach of standards. this was the american president using the tools of american foreign policy, military aid to another country in order to blackmail that country into conducting a false investigation of his political enemy this is unprecedented in american history we haven't had presidents behaving like that literally abusing the tools of foreign policy for their own personal use and yet we have no push back fro the republicans, no pushback from the senators, with the honorable exception of mitt romney that leads me to fear the

mechanisms that are in our constitution, that are designed to block and check a rogue president, and we have them, aren't functioning they're not functioning because the republican party is refusing to use them. >> can you take it a step further and answer to those who might say, but our systems are strong, we'll have an election, this will all straighten itself out? >> well, i hope that's what's going to happen. maybe that's what's going to happen look, let's make sure it's a fair election. watch very closely incidents of voter suppression. watch what happens on this question of absentee ballots for many people, i believe even in november people are going to be afraid to go to voting booths and vote that means it's really important -- this is, by the way, important for republicans and democrats, people have access to the vote and you're already hearing from the president that there's something wrong with absentee

ballots, even though it's something we've used for many yea years. it's a state by state -- it's up to civil society, it's up to everybody now to watch and make sure this election takes place fairly because, you know, this is a president who has an incentive to cheat >> mike barnicle >> anne, i'd like you to weigh in on the following. we live in a complicated world we are inundated culturally with information. facebook, instagram, twitter, all sorts of things. there is no more news. we get it on our telephones, our watches, our belt buckles as soon as it happens is it possible the threat and the reality of awe authoritarianism today, not just in this country but around the world, is rooted, perhaps, in something called simplicity?

people want simple, quick answers. when they hear a tv ad proclaiming that if joe biden is elected president, no one will answer 911 calls they hear someone else saying, i will make you safe i will make that go away i will take care of go away, i l take care of the protesters. your life will be less complicated. what do you think about that >> that's actually one of the arguments in the book. there has been even some, you know, there have been studies by -- there's an australian behavioral psychologist called karen stenner who has looked at the differences in how many react to conflicting information and challenges to their -- changes to their environment and one of the conclusions that she comes to is some people prefer simplicity. some people want to hear a single message some people prefer that. and, by the way, that doesn't mean these are people we need to

somehow exclude from the democratic process or that there's something wrong with them it may just be that opponents of authoritarianism or authoritarian cult-like presidencies like trump's need to find better ways of speaking to them. what are the ways in which we can -- in which democrats or centrist republicans, as we see happening now, can reach across the divide and try and present -- reach people and give them trustworthy information and straightforward information that they can trust i mean, i think -- if they remove a lot of it again, it's also about trust what do people trust what sources do they trust who do they believe? and bringing americans together, by the way, is not just a matter for this next election having a less-polarized society in which we have once again a public sphere in which we can have normal debates and democrats and republicans can

meet one another and make bipartisan agreements. this is good for all of us and down the road, seeking to end that polarization and bring the sides together so that we're not talking in two different echo chambers i think is really important for the health of american democracy, whoever wins the next election. >> such an important book. the book is "twilight of democracy, the authoritarianism." anne applebaum, thank you for being on the show. congratulations on the book. up next, the true story of a senseless murder and a police cover-up in miami in 1980 that has a lot of echos to what's happening in america today we're back in 90 seconds ♪ ♪ ♪

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now is the time to support the places you love. spend 10 dollars or more at a participating small business and get 5 dollars back, up to 10 times with american express. enroll now at shopsmall.com. arthur mcduffie, an insurance man. his case triggered the rioting white policemen chased him for a traffic violation. he struggled and they beat him to death the police officers were fired but an all-white jury took less than three hours to find them not guilty with that, years of frustration and rage exploded. >> that was a look back at the turmoil that engulfed miami over 40 years ago following the death of arthur mcduffie, a black insurance salesman who was beaten into a coma by several white police officers. joining us now, author,

journalist nicholas griffin. he's out with a new book on this era entitled "the year of dangerous days -- riots, refugees and cocaine in miami 1980." >> nicholas, thanks so much for being with us. i lived in northwest florida at the time, and we didn't think of miami in 1980 as another part of the state. we thought of miami as another part of the universe i remember somebody in the mid-80s saying madonna is moving to south beach and i'm like, why would she do that it's undergone an extraordinary transformation how did that happen? >> well, my argument in this book is 1980 is the real hinge year when what was happening in miami suddenly accelerates and basically, it's almost like an annexation, and miami very much becomes latin that year if you look at the demographics at the

beginning of the year. things are fairly balanced between blacks, white and latin. but the sharpest surge of immigration in american history, at the end of the year, you have an entirely different city a latin majority city. and the key here is that the economy was also turning to the south so it could pick up some steam rather than trying to imitate american cities to the north. that was an enormous opportunity for miami, despite these triple crises that happened in 1980 >> and, of course, cocaine, the cocaine trade going through there. would hear stories of people getting shot up in suburban malls. really it caused the entire community to erupt talk about that. >> yeah. the interesting thing about cocaine is, yes, you had that extraordinary amount of bloodshed that happens at the end of '79, beginning of 1980.

what happened before that was drug money arrived first and the amount of money pouring through miami was eye popping. so the federal reserve at that time would expect about $100 million deficit or surplus in each of their regions around america. south florida suddenly had a $7 billion surplus, and that was all cash, and it was all floating around miami. and what that does is it immediately takes out the banking system the first time they peek in there, 26 banks are openly accepting drug money and the next thing it knocks out is it takes out the homicide department which has been corrupted by a relatively low-level cocaine dealer just as you're about to have this biggest surge of murders in american history you've only got three detectives in the whole county homicide department with more than one year of experience >> oh, my gosh mike barnicle is with us and has a question mike >> so janet reno is the dade county prosecutor. five defendant goes on trial

i think, to my memory, i think in your book, four are acquitted. i don't know what happened to the fifth. what happened eventually to the homicide case itself >> well, the short answer is everyone is acquitted of everything there's another case that happens after that where different officers also acquitted. so you get -- the thing about the black community, it had several of these incidents in this year and janet reno hadn't indicted anyone up to that point. and here it looked -- it looked like a no-brainer. we know there were 50 policemen on scene no one was saying that arthur mcduffie was beaten to death by anyone other than the policemen, but the question is, if police are the only witnesses, then how do you build a strong case, and who are you betting on when you grant immunity maybe you've given immunity to the wrong guys and that's how the defense argued that case it's an extraordinary trial. but unfortunately, it ended up

in this very quick jury summation where, you know, this was weeks of a trial and yet they came to their decision after 2 1/2 hours which meant they came to their decision on a saturday afternoon, which meant everyone who should have been either in school or in a job, everyone was sitting around. so when this huge disappointment happened and the open/shut case shut on them, the city blew apart in hours and the police and national guard lost an enormous section of the city for 48 hours and a little longer. and there were a lot of people who died and over 400 fires were set. looting. it was the most miserable day in miami's history. >> what an extraordinary, chaotic time a different miami from a different time that at least barnacle and i remember. thank you so much for being with us i can't wait to read the book. "the year of dangerous days: riots, refugees, and

cocaine in miami in 1980." mike barnicle, before we leave, talk about who is throwing out the first pitch for the washington nationals' opening game some good news >> oh, it couldn't be more appropriate than to have dr. anthony fauci on the mound, on the hill for the washington nationals opener it just couldn't be more perfect, joe >> yeah. >> well, he may not be able to speak tonight, but he'll be throwing out that first pitch. we'll see. maybe he will. all right. that does it for us this morning. stephanie ruhle picks up the coverage right now >> thanks, mika. thanks, joe. hi there i'm stephanie ruhle. it's tuesday, july 21st. here's what's happening now. the number of new coronavirus cases may be trending in the right direction. it is down from where it was last week. roughly 61,000 mony