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as our country grapples with an absence of strong federal leadership in the face of the worst public health crisis in the modern era, this nation is sadly not alone on that score. the associated press among those pointing out that a new set of anti-establishment populist leaders around the world have

failed to meet the challenge of the coronavirus pandemic. among them trump and some of his global allies. uk prime minister boris johnson for one. don't forget the presidents of brazil and mexico. notably all four of those countries alongside russia are facing soaring cases of coronavirus as many of our european alleys continue to see a well managed decline. >> we're joined by rick stengel former undersecretary of state for public diplomacy and public affairs. he's the author of several books and was the managing editor of "time" magazine. i keep thinking about that concept, information and tainted streams of information. i wonder if you have diagnosed a universal problem in sort of the distrust of information flows that don't come from a politician or a partisan that shares your belief system and

you can go back and look at some of the earliest coverage. it cost trish reagan her job. a lot of people were skeptical of the science about the pandemic at the beginning. >> yes. what all of these populists have in common, and i would also call them authoritarian populists is a distrust of not only information but a distrust of science. a disdain for science. a belief in conspiracy theories. part of this populist idea is that i alone can fix it. i seem to recall somebody saying that. and what that means is experts don't know what they're doing. scientists don't know what they're doing. epidemiologists don't know what they're doing. i know how to fix it and deal with it. that's what we're seeing here. it's not just a disdain for information, it's a disdain for democracy, it's a disdain for

expertise. >> rick, let's not forget the radio commercial adage of the new york her cy simms, an educad consumer is our best customer. the other adage is you get what you pay for. in this country, leaving aside voters in the uk, voters in brazil and the lack of them in russia, people voted to burn the house down. people voted to say they couldn't imagine and didn't want hillary clinton president. so this in our and other countries is what happens. you get what you pay for. if you don't like the result, well, that's the kind of thing that powers the movement of that political pendulum. >> yes. i'm going to go from cy simms to thomas jefferson who said governments are formed by men deriving their just consent from the governed.

and just consent is an educated consumer as cy simms would say. democracy depends on people having information. madison said that as well. if people do not get the information in democracy, they can't act in the highest office in a democracy, which is a citizen. one of the things that i have to say that is -- what you guys are doing very well, other people are doing very well is getting information out to people. quoting dr. fauci, having people wear a mask, whether to get on an airplane, whether to do these things. an educated consumer in this case is the best way to actually defeat the coronavirus and it's the best way to overcome authoritarian populists as well and also to buy a suit, as you said. >> so while you two were talking the good folks at "jeopardy" called. they'll be waiting for both of you if any of this doesn't work out for you.

rick, thank you so much for spending time with us. talking to you makes me want to go read. brian, it's amazing, when you put up those four puictures of those four leaders, our sad trajectory, it's amazing that's the company we keep these days. >> think of the death tolls that we could super impose over those four leaders and think of all the human stories connected. as i said, sadly you get what you pay for. sadly sometimes some big catastrophic tectonic movements are what it takes to make that political pendulum move. i'll leave you having quoted a new yorker with that weighty thought as i will now watch the remainder of the broadcast and wish you a good weekend. thank you for having me. >> we'll be watching you tonight at 11:00. thank you. believe it or not, we are fast approaching the 100-day mark. 100 days until the november

election. when we return, new polling that puts donald trump in an even deeper hole. that's next. apps are used everywhere... except work. why is that? is it because people love filling out forms? maybe they like checking with their supervisor to see how much vacation time they have. or sending corporate their expense reports. i'll let you in on a little secret. they don't. by empowering employees to manage their own tasks, paycom frees you to focus on the business of business. to learn more, visit paycom.com

this sunday will mark 100 days until election day. the clock is running out on donald trump's time to turn around his current re-election prospects as his democratic opponent, joe biden, continues to surge in multiple battleground states. according to new polling out today from none other than fox news, biden is leading trump by nine points in michigan, a state the president carried in '16 by over 10,000 votes. joe biden also leading by double digits in pennsylvania, another state trump won in 2016 and minnesota. joining our conversation is michael steele former chairman of the rnc, also with us is mara gaye, a member of the "new york times" editorial board.

we are still standing after staring at polls four years ago, i wouldn't say they're predictive but the trends are always undeniable. only a losing campaign says stuff like -- i said these things, so i speak from experience, the only one that matters is the one on election day. donald trump won by swinging pennsylvania, swinging michigan, swinging these states that had not gone republican in a long time. it's where, michael steele, he's most under water against a candidate like joe biden. >> yeah. and the critical thing about what you just outlined is the fact that in any other normal environment for a president, an incumbent, you know, the strategies would be a little bit different. you would take all these crises that have enveloped the campaign and enveloped his administration and use them as sort of an opportunity to sort of push the voters closer to you, rather

bring them to you and push them away from your opponent. the reality for trump is how he won in '16 was taking three important bricks out of that democratic blue wall. that electoral college blue wall that you know, i know, mara probably talked about and covered. pennsylvania, michigan and wisconsin. so now he's under water in those states. so if any one of those states goes away from him, he has to get that back plus continue to build or hold what he has. that's what makes this 100-day remaining in the campaign that much more difficult because he can't afford to lose any place else. remember, they wanted to take minnesota. that was a big play for them this year. well, you're down by 12 in michigan. what the hell you think you're doing in minnesota? the reality becomes very stark for the campaign from here on out which is why you see the president reviving the coronavirus briefings after

three months and stoking the kind of law and order crazy that he's putting out there in portland and elsewhere. >> mara, all of these states have something in common. they all have lots of women who live in them, not betty draper housewives as donald trump tweeted about yesterday, but real-life women who may not agree with aoc but they may not be into donald trump's party calling her a bleeping bleep. here is aoc responding. >> in front of reporters i was called a [ bleep ]. these are the words that were liv liviy e y yy levied against a congresswoman. he was not alone. he was walking shoulder-to-shoulder with

representative roger williams. that's when we start to see this issue is not about one incident. it is cultural. it is cultural. it is a culture of lack of impunity, of accepting, of violence and violent language against women. an entire structure of power that supports that. >> the entire republican party is congressman yahoo or yoyo or whatever his name is. this is who they are. >> that's right. part of the problem that the president has right now, is that in 2016 he was running against a far weaker not just candidate but also campaign. donald trump supporters tend to deeply identify with him. they almost see themselves in the president. and i think the problem for donald trump right now, is that

the democrats -- you know, as you see with aoc, they're starting to embody that themselves. so when congresswoman ocasio-cortez speaks, even if you don't like her politics, we've all been through so much you identify with that. you want to defend her. you want to come out and support her. i think that is going to be very motivating for women in this country. it will motivate republican women to stay home. it will motivate independent women and democratic women to come out. and given how narrow the president's wins were in 2016, he just, as michael steele said, he doesn't have room for error. it's hard to see how you're putting together a winning coalition at this point. i would also just add that states like michigan -- michigan has been hard hit by the coronavirus pandemic. there were only 10,000 votes that separated the candidate last time. so i actually already think that the president was going to have a hard time there, but the

pandemic has just been the nail in the coffin. >> michael steele, i want to ask you about normal times. in 100 days i think normalcy is on the ballot, too. do we want to live in a country -- in normal times, a normal republican president would today have found a way out to the cameras to condemn a congressman who called a member of the other party a bleeping bleep. starts with an "f" and starts with a "b." every woman in america has been calling a bleeping bleep. if you're tweeting at housewives you have some awareness that you need do better -- we're called women -- you need to do better among women. yet i heard nothing today -- maybe i missed it. maybe someone responded or condemned this abusive, violent language towards a female member of congress and said it on the air but i have not heard it. >> they don't view the congresswoman that way. they don't see her as a member

of congress. they don't see her as a female in this country, they see her as the opposition. they see her as someone they can, you know, create memes about. so you're not going to get that apology. she stood her ground. she stood her ground. she stood it correctly and there are a lot more americans that will stand with her than will stand with trump on this issue. >> mara gay, last word. what advice do you think joe biden is listening to? he really has steadied his campaign. he's adapted to this new normal. he hasn't made a lot of missteps. all campaigns make missteps, i'm not saying he won't. but they've had a pretty good run the last four to six weeks. >> he's definitely been talking to obama's advisers. that's what they believe to be a winning strategy. yeah. that's right. >> it's certainly has that

appearance. since sunday night is 100 days, i hope to talk to you as many days as i can between now and the 100th. thank you for spending some time with us. the real-world impact of mitch mcconnell's inaction on a coronavirus relief bill.

for my mother my father my grandmother my brothers and sisters my friends for going back to school the bbq the lake the beach my place for my neighbors my community my people my country my home for him for her for them for you. ♪ after days of infighting, senate republicans left washington without announcing a coronavirus relief bill. it's a failure for mitch

mcconnell of kentucky. his home state is reeling as cases of coronavirus are on the rise there. nbc news correspondent cal perry joins us now from paducah, kentucky. cal, how is it going? >> hey. there's two discussions to be had here. the on the street, how does this affect folks who lost their jobs. how does it affect businesses? how does it affect the school system and local towns? then there's the, where is the money going to go discussion? in the theme of we totally planned that, listen to amy mcgrath who was here today campaigning. >> what western kentucky needs is what a lot of kentucky needs which is more funding for state and local governments. the state right now has a $400 billion shortfall -- i'm sorry, $400 million shortfall, just for this year. a billion-dollar shortfall for next year. and that's the thing. if you can just bail out big business right away, we should be able to bail out school, school districts, teachers, you

know, your social workers, your police, your firefighters, that sort of thing. i think that's really important because this is not just stimulus. this is emergency package. >> key to this in parts of the country like this is going to be remote learning. it's about giving those students what they need to remote learn. high-speed internet. digital devices. keep an eye on this senate race. i'm headed to louisville next. tomorrow, demonstrations on behalf of breonna taylor. everywhere i go are the register to vote booths by amy mcgrath. >> cal perry, i always learn something from your reporting. thank you for spending time with us on it today. coming up for us, donald trump finds himself further out of step with the whole country. "deadline: white house" next. ♪we ain't stoppin' believe me♪ ♪go straight till the morning look like we♪

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hi, everyone. it's 4:00 in the east. donald trump is increasingly out of step with the country and paying for it mightily in the polls as he cheers the tear gassing of portland's mayor in a tv interview last night, bullies parents and schools to rush back in ahead of the bending of any curve of infections in many parts of the country, and abandoned his plans for a big convention celebration in jacksonville, florida, after forcing the rnc to plan his

political festivities there after the original convention site, charlotte, north carolina, said that it would adhere to health guidelines. such is the surreal state of american politics on this friday. but the reality of the price donald trump is paying for his incompetence and ablication of leadership in the face of the global pandemic, an economic suffering and has ushered in is today undeniable. these are the latest fox news polls. in pennsylvania, a state trump won in 2016, joe biden today leads by 11. in michigan, a state trump won in 2016, joe biden leads by 9. a different poll out this morning even shows a statistical tie in the red red state of texas. and in the critical battleground state of florida, joe biden leads by 13 points. donald trump's political protege there, ron desantis, who badgered the press and boasted the pandemic wouldn't hit florida in the same way it hit

new york is now under water politically himself. only 41% of florida residents approve of his job performance while 52% disapprove. that is a dramatic 31-point swing from april when a majority approved of his job performance as governor. and on trump's republican convention in jacksonville, parts of which he hastily moved there when north carolina would not abide by his desire for crowded mass gatherings has been canceled. "the new york times" writing, the surprise announcement threw one of the tent-pole moments of mr. trump's re-election effort into limbo with the president describing in vague terms how the republicans would hold his renomination in north carolina and do, quote, other things with telerallies and online. trump bowing to health concerns about his own convention as he rails against public schools and parents to open. also places himself out of step with a vast majority of american parents. maybe even the ones he tried to

reach yesterday when he tweeted at suburban housewives with a message that would have made archie bunker blush. the fact is that the vast majority of parents are concerned about sending their children back to school, including most republicans. a new ap poll found most americans were very or extremely concerned that reopening k through 12 schools would contribute to the spreading of the virus. altogether, 80% were at least somewhat concerned. that includes 3 in 5 republicans, according to that poll. "the new york times" interviewed one veteran republican pollster who told them, quote, i have yet to see any data where there are appreciable numbers of people who say, yes, i want my kids back in school. they want their kids back in school, but not right now. i think safety is taking priority over education. it shows you how nervous americans are about coronavirus. because, let's face it, virtual learning couldn't be worse, yet large numbers of parents are

saying we're not putting our kids back in school. the political price of trump's indifference and incompetence are where we start today. peter baker is here. also with us, internal medicine physician and msnbc medical contributor dr. liffey roy and executive editor of the recount, john heilemann is here. peter baker, take me through, you know, the front page holds this story we quoted from about the convention being canceled. donald trump clearly has no aversion, no hesitation about horsing people into indoor arenas. so what was it that really led to canceling the convention? >> look, this is sort of the reality catching up, right, with the president. this is a president who called himself a cheerleader. wants to be a positive force in terms of predicting the virus is going away. that the country was getting better. in fact, the reality has caught

up and said, no, it's not the case. florida is an extreme. it's not possible to have a convention there. a lot of people have known that. most have known it for weeks and one of the last people to come to that conclusion is the president of the united states. the donors weren't willing to give money. the authorities in jacksonville and elsewhere were warning about the consequences of this. and basically yesterday it was the house crashing down around the view that the crisis is bep heinz us. in fact, it's not. >> the house crashed down, but he, you know, stumbled through the rubble and got back to trying to bully schools into reopening. his son's school isn't reopening based on your reporting today in the paper. peter? we lost peter baker. dr. roy, could you pick that up? the president accepting some reality about the convention,

but it seems to be in direct contradiction to the campaign that is ongoing and was supposed to be the substance of the press conference yesterday that schools must reopen. >> yeah, so i guess it's good news in that he reached enlightenment, insofar as mass gatherings such as conventions and rallies are considered a health hazard because it increases the risk of transmission of the virus. so that is good news, but it's partial truth to say that the aap, the american academy of pediatrics supports -- fully supports school reopening because if you actually read the press release that was sent out by the statement that was released by the aap a couple of weeks ago, they said schools are important for children. however, it must be done. reopening must be done safely in a way that's safe for all students, teachers and staff.

and science must drive the decision-making behind reopening. that was the official statement by the ap, and i believe the president left that part out. >> i'm sure he did. he also left his mask off last night when he headed to a little league event. sounds like he's getting his pandemic advice from betsy devos, not anthony fauci, who i see you are there trying to -- his scientific brilliance is undisputed but we may have to debate his pitching acumen later. heilemann, let me come to you on where this leaves the president in defiance of science, accepting some semblance of reality, i suppose, around bringing people to florida for whatever he was going to peel off from the official business in north carolina. but i refuse to accept that any reality about the pandemic itself, how it spreads and that

it is still spreading has set in for him to stand there and even in light of peter baker's reporting that his own son's school isn't reopening, bully all the rest of the public schools in america to open. >> right. nicolle, you just said -- hey, it's good see you, by the way. happy friday. >> hi. happy friday. >> i don't think -- i'm, unfortunately, i worship the ground that anthony fauci walks on but his pitching skills, the man, like all of us, has a flaw. and unlike your old boss, george w. bush who threw a dart after 9/11, fauci looked more like barack obama, throwing that big lollipop back when he tried to throw out the first pitch. you can't be great at everything. nicolle, i think the distinction you're drawing is the important distinction. and my sense of it, talking to people around the trump campaign, a number of things are

true, one of which is that as brad parscale got demoted and so on, there's a -- that the president is casting about to his -- is casting about to a wider circle of advisers. people who worked on the previous campaign. he's trying to listen to more people because he recognizes the death of his political difficulties. number two, a lot of those people are saying to him that he must change one thing to make his political fortunes improve and that is his approval rating on the coronavirus. a thing that back in march it got -- it was right around 50%, 51%. now it's in the low 30s. if there's any chance for this race to be competitive, donald trump needs to bring his approval rating up into the mid-40s at least. so the question is how to do it. and one of the things -- you're right. his perception of the pandemic itself remains as primitive and misguided as ever. but the decision to shut down the convention is part of, i think, a strategy that

recognizes he has to try to rehabilitate himself and be seen by more of the public as having some clue, some plan, some concession to reality. the white house briefings are even getting up on the briefing stage is part of this. the attempt to be more disciplined in delivering those messages. and i think the other thing that's happened is all of a sudden, the people around donald trump realize that time is very short. and that the election is not november 3rd. election day is november 3rd. the election starts in six weeks. we start voting in six weeks. and given the number of people who are going to vote absentee and by mail, this election could be decided by the middle of october. the election could be decided before the first -- depending on when the debates happen, before the final debate has happened. and so they have a very narrow window to try to put donald trump back in a place where he can even be competitive with joe biden. that's the reality right now. it's not that, like, can he win. it's can he do enough in this next month or so to get himself

in a place where he can even have a fight with joe biden. that's how bad his political standing is. and it's something that for the first time ever, the people around the president in the political sphere are willing to countenance it's that bad. >> let me read you something, john heilemann, from the brilliant susan glasser. she interviewed john kasich, someone you and i both interviewed who has a good feel for his state, for ohio, and for sort of that -- not just the never trump republicans but the on the fence republicans, too. glasser writes, what i found most interesting in my conversation with kasich was his sense that perhaps the country was finally done with the madness. the rage, division and exhaustion that may be reshaping the presidential politics in ohio which trump won by eight points last time around. trump's recent screw-ups have hit americans personally. coronavirus say personal issue, as is the economy, as is race,

and when you strike out on all three, then it becomes a tipping point. i think people have had enough. i do. do you, john heilemann, think this is over? >> well, i don't think anything is ever over. there's a lot -- i said the time was short. at the same time, a lot of things can happen. i think all we can do is read where we are today, and i think that if you look at the collection of data that we have, it's not -- this is not -- people say, well, in 2016, the polls were wrong. in 2016, the polls were a little wrong in some very important ways. there was never a moment in 2016 when hillary clinton led outside the margin of error in every battleground state. not worngs ever. there was never a moment that hillary clinton got to 50% in the national polling. never a moment when voters who disliked both candidates preferred hillary clinton to donald trump. there was a large segment, millions of voters who did not like either hillary clinton or donald trump and they broke

dramatically for donald trump. there are many who still don't like joe biden and donald trump but they're almost all breaking, almost overwhelmingly breaking for joe biden. the depth of data that suggests that this race, if the race happened today, if we had an election day tomorrow, it's not tomorrow, but if we held the election tomorrow in america, joe biden would win. he'd not win narrowly. he'd win overwhelmingly in the popular vote and electoral college and if you get the people around donald trump who are not in total denial, the ones who have -- who are looking at their own data, they would acknowledge if the election were held tomorrow or next week that joe biden would win 375 electoral votes. that's how bad the situation is. nothing is over, though, because we've seen that in america in 2020, pretty much anything can happen. pretty much everything has happened. and i'm not willing to write off the possibility of more black swan-game changing events between now and november. it's crazy to think that anything is subtle.

>> peter baker, it's a good admonition, and i'll put myself in the same camp. nothing is never over until it's over. donald trump has started talking as if it's over by raising the specter of a nonconcession in his interview with chris wallace on sunday by repeatedly branding all mail-in voting. even the ones -- ostensibly lots of people will mail in ballots for president trump. but he's already painted all the mail-in vote as rigged. what is sort of the -- your understanding and sort of the reporting of the moment about what donald trump thinks it's prospects are for winning? >> yeah, that's a great question. i think you're right about that. i think john is right to point out that where things are now, does not necessarily mean where they'll be 100 days from now. look how much the world has changed in the last 100 days. who knows what could happen between now and november. voting starts sooner rather than later. time is running out, and the chance to change the dynamics

for the president are so much harder now than they were even just a month ago. he's not going to suddenly have the economy turn around on a dime. the virus clearly is on the upswing, not the down swing. even the president said it's going to get worse before it gets better. those are not good things. in terms of the fall, in terms of what happens if he doesn't accept the results, you're right. he sounds like a man trying to lay the groundwork. the system is rigged. if he loses it's because somebody else cheated. multiple states use mail-of in voting for their entirety of their election. it's a proven process around the country. there's not the evidence the president likes to claim of widespread voter fraud but he's setting the stage for that kind of an event. that would be a black swan event. what happens if a president of the united states refuses to accept the election? we don't know. paul begala, the former clinton adviser was quoted in our paper saying, this is one of the first times in american history that

it's not enough to get to 270 electoral college votes. that the democrats want to be able to come out of this with a real victory. they have to run up the total in order to remove any possibility of doubt. any possibility of conspiracy theory or suspicion. i don't know whether they can do that. they look good right now, but the trump campaign had a call today where they emphasized again how statewide polls in 2016 were off, even if the national polls were much more accurate than people think they were. and, you know, we should never count donald trump out. >> that's true. that is true. dr. roy, we've been talking about where we'll be in our politics in 100 days. i want to spend the rest of our time talking about where the virus will be in 100 days. i think it was about 100 days ago, but the national stay-at-home order expired around the end of april s. some states took that as an all-clear. florida and georgia and texas threw the doors open. i remember being on the air with

experts like yourselves. none of them met the cdc guideline of a 14-day slope in cases but they opened up anyway. where could we be 100 days from now? >> well, it really depends on what part of the country you're asking about. so yesterday came home from work. i saw this package at my door. i opened it, and it was this t-shirt that my friend crystal sent as a belated birthday gift. it's so relevant right now when we're having these -- this resurgence of these white house briefings but who is conspicuously absent? the person who is a national treasure and an infectious disease expert who is globally respected. we need somebody, not like fauci, but we need dr. fauci at these white house briefings so he can directly address to the american people specific questions about the virus. how it's spreading. the biology of it. clinical manifestations of it. medications both existing and emerging. vaccine development. these are the questions the

public have about this deadly pandemic. and it's questions that we have as well. so that -- where we're heading is going to depend on how we behave as a people and how our elects officials behave as well, nicolle. >> and i think most of our viewers know this by now but it's very difficult to get dr. fauci on tv. the white house prefers he do podcasts and the like so we're lucky to have dr. roy who is an expert in her own right and who is wearing the team name fauci. peter baker, dr. roy, thank you for starting us off. heilemann is sticking around. when we come back, another group running from trump. this time suburban voters. his campaign's solution? let's scare them. his latest stoking of the racial divide in america. and the president's assault on the rule of law getting some attention this week on capitol hill. we'll talk to congressman eric swalwell about that and about what they can do about it. plus, the battle for

baseball, for a season, that is. what it took for the league to open up and what it says about how the rest of the country can come back, too. all those stories still coming up for us. i like liberty mutual. they get that no two people are alike and customize your car insurance so you only pay for what you need. what do you think? i don't see it. only pay for what you need. ♪ liberty. liberty. liberty. liberty. ♪

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just over 100 days out from the 2020 election and polls like these showing donald trump trailing joe biden among suburban voters, a demographic key to trump's 2016 victory. it clearly has the president rattled. this drop in support may be why his administration vowed to appeal an obama-era housing rule. adding to that, he sent out this

tweet following the move addressing it to, quote, suburban housewives of america. they're called women. biden will destroy your neighborhood and your american dream. i'll preserve it and make it even better. exclamation point. joining the conversation, rev al sharpt orngs ho sharpton, host of "politics nation" and john heilemann is back. help us unravel this nasty web of housewives, latent sexism, racism, everything in that one little tweet. >> it is vintage donald trump. in one tweet, he deals with the sexist stereotype of women that you're housewives. the implication of, you should be in the house cooking and waiting on the boss to come home. i mean, all of that is inferred because, clearly, there are many in the suburbs that are not, quote, housewives. many of them professional women. many of them entrepreneurs.

and then the race baiting. the fearmongering. they are coming to get your neighborhood. i will save you from them, the blacks. them, the browns. and where it is so outdated, nicolle, is we're in the era of gentrification where many people in the suburbs are moving into the inner city and moving them out toward the suburbs. so he no longer even knows what he's talking about. but when you understand the history of donald trump and his father who had to deal with a federal case of housing discrimination, he's playing the card he always knew even as a young businessperson in the city of new york. >> that was my second question, rev. this is a toolbox he's familiar with from growing up. talk about weaponizing housing policies. >> the fact is that growing up, they were charged with housing discrimination, where you would not rent or lease or sell

property to people based on their race. and that was a way that you would, in politics, tell people, don't worry. i'm saving you from them. it preserves your neighborhood. so in many ways, they did not do what was needed in their buildings that they controlled or owned or the property area or politicians in the zone they were dealing with. you're better than them, and it has always been a weapon of bigots who wanted to get away with giving less to even those that they claim to be serving. >> john heilemann, brandon bock, who was an aide to speaker ryan says this in today's "washington post." quote, there seems to be a complete lack of understanding why he's getting drubbed in the suburbs. educated suburban voters are not interested and are actually repelled by his fear mongering and these racial dog whistles. >> yeah, i think that's the --

look, we've talked about this on the show multiple times before. we've got this moment of national reckoning with institutional racism and police violence. we've seen a movement where, you know, a thing like black lives matter that did not have anything like majority support prior to george floyd's killing is now a thing that's embraced by voters in the high 60%. we've seen some polls in the low 70%. donald trump, you were talking before about being out of step with the public on what i think is the defining issue of this election which is the coronavirus and the questions of public health and public safety that come out of that and that trump is out of step with the mainstream of the country on that. also out of step with the mainstream of the country on this. and there is now, you know, there is in large swaths in the vast majority of white suburban america, there is a desire to be seen on the side of racial progress and so when the president -- these aren't dog whistles. they are air horns, bull horns

and no one, i think it's right to say there are a lot of suburban white voters, some of them who are republicans as recently as 2016 who look at trump and say he's taking us backward. he's sowing division. and i'm not down for that. i want to be on the side of progress and on the side of a better, more perfect, multiracial america. >> i mean, john heilemann, you talked to people around the president. why doesn't he do the one thing that would solve this problems with all the humans who live in the suburbs. and that's try to solve the, what is now an intractable testing problem in this country. i think the median delay now is nine days. it renders contact tracing moot. who do you trace if you don't know for nine days whether your infection was positive or negative? why doesn't he look at solving the coronavirus pandemic or at least trying to contain it as his key to winning back the suburbs. >> well, i think that's a very

good question. and i think if you think about the time in which the damage was done to trump politically, and the time when the virus, you know, when we saw that early peak and then it's things flattened out. for a variety of reasons and history books will be written about this. why did the president get suckered into the notion that we had won this war and that the best thing politically, under the advice of people -- not just people like mark meadows who we know about, but by kevin hassett at the council on economic advisers. jared kushner, others who were saying, you know what? we're past the worst of this now. the warm weather is going to come. when the warm weather comes, this is going to go away and that's your political interest to pretend it's not a problem and, therefore, to not do the kinds of things you're talking about on testing. it's clear that those projections, the projections, the kevin hassett projection that minimized deaths. the notion the sun belt would not be affected, hey, have you looked at miami lately? have you looked at texas,

arizona? those things are untrue. it's a huge question why donald trump has not come around to reality. and i think the thing we talked about in the "a" block, what does -- in the very short runway they have right now, if the goal is to try to make a -- to improve trump's numbers on the coronavirus, this key political metric, what does he do in this next month and is this the moment he comes to jesus on the subject that you just floated. way too late but do we see this in the next four weeks? i don't know but it's going to tell us a lot about how much of the advice has sunk in and what he tries to do about it. >> you know what he could do, and i know he won't do this so i'm not scared to say this out loud. the test that every reporter and every staff in the residence take every day. this instant test. the abbott test. he could demand he'll not be swabbed one more time until every single public school has enough single day tests to test the kids every single day

starting on the first day of school going through the whole school year. everyone would go back to school. you'd be able to find those cases on day one. they do white house reporters and i bet my last dollar he will not do that. right? >> absolutely not. anything that calls for self-sacrifice on his part, anything that calls for him to not come off like he's superman, he will not do. it's not part of his nature. he can't do it. >> he can't do it. rev al sharpton and john heilemann, thanks for spending some time with us. after the break, as donald trump mulls more pardons, there's an effort in congress to rein in presidential power. that's next. cash back cash back on the stuff i'm already buying. sometimes it's 3% sometimes it's 8% but you're always getting cash back. so it's like getting free money. go to rakuten.com and sign up today for a $10 bonus.

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what happened is a disgrace. again, should never, ever happen to another president. >> will you consider pardons for the people involved in the last 15 seconds? >> i've looked at a lot of different people. they've been treated extremely unfairly, and i think i probably would. >> his poll numbers stink and too few pardons and commutations are probably not a reason. just last night, donald trump right there still floating the idea that he may pardon more of his associates charged in the mueller investigation. pardoning seems to be his favorite power. presidential power. we've seen him wield it for his friends and allies numerous times now which is why yesterday democrats in the house judiciary committee approved two bills attempting to rein in

presidential power. one on pardons ensuring trump and any president that follows is not above the law. let's bring in california democratic congressman eric swalwell. how did that go? >> very well, for the rule of law. we passed legislation that chairman schiff and jamie raskin had worked on. it was a crazy idea that no president should be able to pardon themselves and if they did pardon somebody in an investigation around their own conduct, that there would be transparency requirements as to what the department of justice would have to tell congress. we passed it. i was surprised it was even debated, but the length that my colleagues on the other side will go to defend the president and abandon longstanding principles they've had doesn't surprise me anymore. >> so all the republicans voted against it? >> yes. >> that's amazing. i want to ask -- >> there's going to be presidents after donald trump, right? that's the thing. you know, he's not going to be president forever.

>> that's the thing. >> they will rue the day they gave up all of these accountability measures you could put on a president. >> they will. let me ask you about election interference. i know there was a briefing. my colleague ken cldilanian has story out. what do you fear the whole story is? >> well, i was briefed yesterday on election security threats that we have. and there is a threat in particular that is specific, concerted and we have credible information about its goals and intent and we want the whole congress to receive this briefing. i am very concerned, though, that today the president's administration put out a statement that you have china and russia and iran and they're all interfering and gave this false equivalence to them. and this would be like if a meteorologist saw that there was going to be snowflakes in the rockies, lightning storm in the

midwest and a category 5 hurricane to hit the east coast and just put out an alert that there's going to be a weather event this weekend. that's the equivalent of what they've done, i think, to politically protect the president. >> is the credible threat that you're talking about, that you've asked for christopher wray, the fbi director to offer a defensive briefing on, is it one that is classified that you can't talk to the public about? >> that's right. >> but is it a -- is it connected to what we see senator ron johnson's committee up to? >> well, we -- what is accurate in the statement that was put out today is russia continues to interfere in our elections. that was in the statement today. we know russia has interfered in the past. i can't go into any of the specifics about which country we are referring to, but we have an opportunity, just about the same time that we were starting to

learn in 2016 about what russia was doing to stop a foreign country from really involving itself in our elections and also laundering misinformation through congress. and we can push that big red button to stop them and right now i'm afraid that the way the administration is proceeding is to just say, well, everyone is interfering. and that's just not accurate. >> well, i guess if you go back, fiona hill testified before your committee in the impeachment investigation that russia's efforts at disinformation are ongoing and she was forceful in saying she wasn't be a part of that. do you view russia's efforts as fiona hill does as ongoing? >> yes. and christopher wray does as well. he told the judiciary committee before the pandemic at a public hearing that russia continues to seek to interfere in our elections. and i believe the best way to deal with any country that has any goal or intent to interfere in our election, and has --

continues to do so is to name and shame them and make sure the american people know what they are doing. and so that's what we are asking for at least the congress to know the details of the threat, the whole congress. and chairman schiff is working to make sure that happens. >> what do you realistically expect to get from attorney general barr when he heads up to capitol hill on this topic? >> we'd first like him to just show up. he's the only attorney general in recent history who has not testified to the house judiciary committee. so we want him to show up. we have a lot of questions about the president's abuse of power that he is essentially acting as the president's fixer now. you know, he is in the michael cohen seat, so to speak. the problem is that the president didn't pay michael cohen with taxpayer dollars and bill bar is being paid with taxpayer dollars to help protect the president's friends and punish his enemies. i was concerned by the court yesterday that said michael cohen was put back into prison

out of a retaliatory action. this is in the same month that we learned that roger stone's sentence was commuted by the justice department despite prosecutors saying he deserved the sentence he got and bill barr was a part of commuting that sentence. a lot of questions about what he's doing for donald trump and putting trump first rather than the american people first. >> congressman eric swalwell, thank you for spend something time with us. no shortage of headlines to talk to you about. after the break for ubaseball is back. and while opening night was supposed to be an achievement, it was also another reminder that we are now living in a new normal. that conversation next. how about no

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no fans that ended early because of the pouring rain. our national pastime reflecting our national mood in many ways. the season has begun, yes, but it feels like a fragile thing. just consider mere hours before the first pitch, a moment that was to be an achievement that wasn't an achievement in the end. a celebration. the return to normal. the defending world champions washington nationals announced their 21-year-old phenom juan soto tested positive for coronavirus. and so, just like the rest of ubaseball will press forward with a deal with it as we go approach and a high degree of uncertainty. joining our conversation, mike schmidt of "the new york times" who interviewed the commissioner of baseball five times over the last two months as reopening negotiations took place. mike, just start by taking us through that roller coaster if it was one for the league. >> well, so baseball was ready to go in march. they were two weeks out, and the

commissioner rob manfried was sitting at home getting ready for it. he could see that the coronavirus was beginning to engulf the country. but it was all on that night where trump was addressing the country back in march and at the same time, the nba was shutting down its games that he realized he had an enormous problem on his hands. his sport was about to begin, and that was coming into question. and what we did was we followed him through that journey. a journey where he had to take on the financial issues of this sport where he had to learn the health and safety and take a game that is so steeped in tradition and transform it into the age of social distancing. and when it looked like he might have that piece figured out, as he was doing this from home, he then had probably the worst labor dispute to emerge in the sport in a generation. and a real question about

whether a fight between the owners and the players over money was going to stop baseball from returning to the field. and that would have been a humongous problem because people were looking for anything to give him sort of normalcy or even a distraction with what is going on. and it was just back in june that the question of a baseball season was in doubt. and it was in doubt over money. and manfried had to figure that o out and get the sport back on season because if there wasn't a season, the sport would have been damaged. >> were his concerns for having a season fall apart over money feeling like the fans would lose faith with them. while they were making all these sacrifices to stay home, have their kids miss school, lose their jobs, the players wouldn't go out and play and the owners wouldn't put on a season if it cost them something?

>> yeah. look. at any time, there are a lot of people watching a sport and looking to a sport during a labor dispute for the sport to resolve it and get them back on the field. those stakes were even greater given what was going on. but what i found in my discussions with manfried in talking to his predecessor bud selig was that was really on his mind was something that still haunts baseball. and that's the 1994 strike. he was afraid of having to be the person to cancel a season. and he knew in 1994, he was a junior lawyer working in baseball and he watched as selig had to cancel the world series that year. the stain that left on the game. the damage it did, not just in '94 but in '95 and '96 and '97 and how it really set the sport back. and manfried tried to learn from

that and said, i need to do everything i can possible to avoid that because if we don't come back, baseball may not come back the way it did before the pandemic. >> i want to play some of your interview with rob manfred, the commissioner of baseball when he got these positive covid results before the game. >> my initial reaction is, i can't believe this is happening on opening day. but then i drop back and i thought about, we knew we were going to have positives. it's unfortunate it was opening day and juan soto, but the protocols were built to deal with this. the whole point is, you got to build a system that's flexible enough to deal with what's coming. we knew it was coming. >> so my question, mike, it feels like peak 2020 that here was the star of the league. here was opening night in a big,

positive case. does baseball see itself as a microcosm of the country or do they sort of just worry about baseball? >> well, i think a little bit of both. but i think what you could hear in manfred's voice in that part of the interview and what's going going on right now is that he's gone through an enormous amount to just get to this point, to have a 60-game season. but the biggest challenge of the entire year is probably ahead of him, and that's keeping the sport going. remember, these are teams that are traveling from different parts of the country. almost a third of them come from florida, texas and california. he had a problem earlier this week where the canadian government wouldn't let the toronto bluejays play at home. so despite guiding the sport to this point, and in doing so, it was a real mess. there was labor fighting in ways that really, really upset the fans. so even though we're at this

point and we are two days into the season, the challenges will be enormous going forward, because if you have a lot of players like juan soto who test positive, there will be questions about why is it that you're allowing the game to continue to go on. so by no means is baseball out of the woods. >> that's such an interesting and scary thought they could take down a team. mike schmidt, we'll all hold our collective breath for baseball. thank you for the reporting. after the break, another celebration for lives well lived. s well lived. [indistinct radio chatter]

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you want to settle in for these today. there was a family a while back who had a child that was sick. for about a year, the family searched for answers. then came along nancy, a nurse practitioner from idaho, and she was able to do what no other nurse was able to do. she diagnosed the sickness, and she did it in a day. it came to her approach to solving mysteries. she didn't just hear what patients told her, she listened to them and went from there. she is known as a mentor among so many health professionals. her husband told people at times

she was a tenacious mama bear. now, though, they'll have to continue on without her. samantha died of the coronavirus a week and a half ago. now her family is teaming up with the st. luke's health foundation to create a scholarship in her name that would support nursing education. we're also remembering bradley johnson today, a 44-year-old veterinarian in florida. he spent his life around animals, of course, so his career was a no-brainer. he opened his own practice out of his home, making house calls, mostly, or to be a little more speck, farm calls. he worked hard enough that he eventually opened a brand new office six minutes from where he went to high school. accord to the northwest florida daily news, brad became the only vet serving holmes county and its 20,000 residents. he was successful because making connections came easy to him, to the animals and to their owners,

many of whom he had known since childhood. brad died of coronavirus on monday. his clients will certainly miss him, but it's his family we're thinking about today. thank you so much for letting us into your homes during these truly extraordinary times. we're grateful. our coverage continues with steve kornacki after a quick break. rnacki after a quick break. kelly clarkson. try wayfair! oh, ok. it's going to help you, with all of... this! yeah, here you go. thank you! oh, i like that one! [ laugh ] that's a lot of storage! perfect. you're welcome! i love it. how did you do all this? wayfair! speaking of dinner, what're we eating, guys?

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we went from a couple people on ventilators to close to 200. 100 people on icus to way over 200. we went from 12 people dying in two and a half months to 35 people dying in one morning. i've never seen anything like this in my 35-plus years of medicine. the last two weeks in particular have been exhausting because we realize that our death rates