gaps, 25 to 40 points, democrats much more cautious, more worried than republicans, tracking the president's rhetoric. >> mike allen, thank you as always my friend. i'll be reading axios a.m. in a little bit you can sign up for the newsletter at axiossignup.com. that does it for me this morning, i'm yasmin vossoughian. "morning joe" starts right now. >> good morning and welcome to "morning joe," it is monday, july 27th. with us we have national affairs analyst, executive editor of the recount, john heileman. host of politics nation and president of the national action new york, reverend al sharpton is with us. and author of "the washington post" early morning newsletter, jackie alamani is with us this morning. and this morning the number of americans who die from the

coronavirus is expected to cross 150,000. it is a tragic number by any account. a number that most say this did not have to happen. and for a president who has been wrong repeatedly about the death toll, who continues to claim the virus will just disappear, we're at almost 150,000 people. he perceived -- his perceived mishandling of the deadly pandemic is showing up starkly in polling. including the critical swing states in this country. and 55 years after john lewis first crossed the edmund pettus bridge, the late congressman and civil rights icon crossed it one final time yesterday. his casket pulled across the bridge, which was sprinkled with rose petals to represent the

blood spilled there. we begin this morning with new 2020 polling from several key states continuing to show joe biden with a lead over president trump. in arizona, a poll has biden up 50% to trump's 45%. a cnn ssrs poll is a point closer in arizona, 49 to 45. in michigan, a cbs news yougov poll has biden up 6 points, 48 to 42%. while the cnn ssrs poll puts the michigan lead for biden up 12 points. the fox news poll we showed you friday has biden's lead at 9 points. in high row, the cbs news has them as a statistical tie. and in florida, the cnn ssrs

poll has donald trump trailing joe biden by 5 points, 51% to 46%. >> we'll get to new numbers we just got out of north carolina, going there for a report, that race also appearing to break open. john heileman, let's look at these numbers michigan biden plus six, 12 or nine, depending on which poll you believe. texas continues to be deadlocked. georgia deadlocked. florida, 51 to 46. i am noticing that biden reaching the 50% threshold, something that politicians and retired politicians look at. it's one thing to be ahead 42 to 38 with undecided, but biden crossing 50% in several of these swing states. what's your takeaway? >> good morning, joe.

we have a picture here that continues the continuity that we've seen for the past two months, which is there's not a battleground state of the six core battleground state, there's not one, again as always reminding people the biden campaign and trump campaign agree, michigan, wisconsin, north carolina, florida, there's not one of them that donald trump won them all in 2016 and he's behind them all now. there's not anybody on the trump campaign who would disagree with that and no one on the biden campaign who doesn't look at that and say these are the six states if we win the six states we'll win the presidency, the numbers suggest that joe biden has been in a commanding position, the last two months. some of the polls are tightening. people saw the florida polls last week that had biden up 12, 13, 14 points. there's nobody that thinks joe biden is going to win florida by 12 or 13 points. it's not going to happen.

but now that biden is over 50 in that state. the fact you see biden over 50 in michigan, you can explain why that matters, joe, the race is going to tighten. you can assume a fair amount of the gap between trump and biden is republicans who might in a tightening race go home to donald trump. but if joe biden is over 50, it doesn't matter. over 50 you're winning the state. those are encouraging numbers for joe biden across the board and consistent with what we've seen the past couple months. arizona is a state that donald trump has never been ahead in 2020. continues to be the case. >> interesting. you're right. you see a poll by joe biden ahead by 12 points in the state of florida, and i just find it hard to believe that even though that may be what people are telling pollsters in july, that's not how they're going to be voting. i'd be surprised, mika, if all

of these races don't tighten up significantly toward the end. but, you know, arizona is a great example of a state where biden has stubbornly maintained a lead, four points, five points, six points, it reminds me of ohio in 2012 where barack obama just consistently and steadily stayed ahead of romney three points, four points, five points through the entire race. so again, that 50% is just a poll. we're only in -- we're only in july -- >> 100 days or less. >> yeah, 100 days. but when candidates start hitting that 50% threshold, you also see joe biden's favorables far different than hillary clinton's four years ago. >> for sure. >> suddenly this is more baked in than what we saw four years ago. doesn't mean it's not going to tighten up, that joe biden is

necessarily going to win. it just means that the climb for the president's team higher this year. >> the latest nbc news marist poll out of north carolina shows joe biden ahead of president trump, 51 to 44%. it comes as the visit comes to the state to visit a facility helping to create a coronavirus vaccine. let's hope he wears a mask. let's bring in josh letterman from raleigh, north carolina. what can we expect today with the polls in that state not in his direction? >> reporter: that's right. the president heading here today to visit a factor where they're starting to ramp up production of a coronavirus vaccine that the federal government has been investing in. president trump coming in as his swing state woes continue to

mount his approval rating down 11 points from when nbc polled in march. that's bringing head winds as well for republicans in the state as the state heads to the senate race one of the biggest pick up opportunities for democrats in north carolina. thom tillis now down 9 points to his democratic challenger. another thing out of the poll, a vindication for north carolina democrats and the democratic governor, roy cooper and the decision to stand up to the president on holding the convention here in north carolina by a two to one margin. voters say it was the right decision to prioritize health concerns over the president's desire to hold the convention here. now of course even his relocated convention in florida having to be scrapped as coronavirus cases

surge in that state. the other takeaway from our poll this morning, mika, if you look at the three biggest issues in the election, coronavirus, the economy, and handling of race relations. vice president biden continues to do far better than his competitor, president trump when it comes to coronavirus and race relations, but the president still enjoying a sizable advantage over joe biden when it comes to handling the economy. we're seeing that mirrored not only here in north carolina but in other swing states as well as some of the national polls that we're seeing. it's an indication of why the president is so intent on focussing on the economic recovery and his messaging and an indication how the voters feel about the economy when it comes to october, november, is going to be so critical when determining the outcome of this election, particularly as more states have to roll back reopening plans for their own economies in light of the

surging coronavirus cases. >> josh letterman in north carolina, thank you so much. john heileman, let's talk about north carolina, a state from the old confederacy, that former republicans like myself, republicans saw as a state that was in the bag until barack obama's victory there in 2008, which was a real shock for a lot of republicans. but of course the research triangle has been there for some time. a state that's been more in flux. thom tillis' approval ratings have been in the low 30s. he's down five points in the nbc polls, more in other polls. what do you make of the number that has biden up by seven? what's going on there? >> you're seeing the same, joe. think about all these states across that southern -- the sunbelt swath, north carolina, florida, texas, arizona, these

are all states where the polls favor biden, either they're places biden is ahead or where biden shouldn't be close and now is close. most of it reflects the central fact of the race is that north carolina has been hit hard by coronavirus, donald trump is suffering because of that. then there's the situation around the convention. there are a lot of people in north carolina, in the north carolina business establishment and other places that were unhappy with the way the president and republicans treated north carolina around the convention. their decision last week to stop the convention in jacksonville was the right thing to do on a number of grounds but you can't help but think there's a lot of people in north carolina wondering why if donald trump wasn't going to hold the convention why they abandoned north carolina the way they did and were so dismissive on the state in the process. this is a state where consistently, it's a battleground state, it's going to get fought, get tighter, it's

a state that trump won clearly, not comfortably, back in 2016, but the signs are -- have been increasingly those polls have been widening in biden's favor. it's a state the biden team has felt more comfortable of late than they ever ekxpected to fee at this state of the race. >> i was just being told by alex, the cunningham lead is nine points over tillis. i thought i saw on the graphic 48 to 43. the graphic was wrong? 48-43 was march. and sometimes in many july we show march polls. so it, again, i want to make sure it's a nine-point lead alex? 50 to 41. thank you so much. so jonathan lemire we ask the question every week, the president this week losing in every battleground state, other than ohio, ohio's tied, making

matters worse, texas over the past several months has become a battleground state. georgia has become a battleground state. the white house never expected arizona six months ago to become a battleground state. instead they were talking about winning new mexico and minnesota, which in a poll last week they were getting routed by double digits. early voting beginning, we're five weeks away maybe from early voting. what's the white house thinking? what's the trump campaign thinking? how do they turn this around? >> we've been beating the drum on the early voting for a while now. and those close to the president know that's an issue too. there are people voting in five or six weeks. and they're running out of time before that moment to change the momentum and the narrative of this race. as you say, they're playing defense in a lot of places they

didn't expect. texas, the president is going there later this week on wednesday for political event and fund-raising and kmek development. he is traveling to north carolina today. didn't anticipate having to play so hard in north carolina and georgia. on friday, the president's campaign manager did a private briefing for reporters and went through the polls. there's an acknowledgement the president is down but they're saying the president can overcome and it cast doubts on the polling. thinking there are a number of people backing the president in november who aren't being picked up in the polls because they're not acknowledging they're voting for donald trump in a poll or they aren't the ones on the screens of pollsters. in 2016, there was some element of truth to that. we heard the president say there was a silent majority, hidden voters, but at these rallies

there were lots of people in the building to see the president who would tell me and other reporters, i haven't voted in four, eight, 16, 20 years, i've never talked to a pollster in my life i'm going to vote for this guy. but that's a risky bet that there are so many people coming out this time. that's why there's alarm for a time and need for what could be called an october surprise and they're putting a lot of eggs in the basket of a vaccine. that's why the president is going to north carolina today. we're expecting hype in each development of the step of a vaccine, which would be great for everyone but the president believes it's critical for his future. if they can say that a vaccine is close, even if they can't distribute it, if they can give the idea of hope, they think it

can change and give them some momentum. >> reverend al, michigan plus six, plus nine, plus 12, depending on the poll. ohio tied. north carolina plus seven. a lot of those states it will be hispanics and black americans who determine whether donald trump gets re-elected or not. of course, four years ago, black turnout was a 20-year low. a lot of hispanics in florida didn't line up and vote the way that democrats and the clinton campaign expected them to vote. how are things looking in 2020 for the biden campaign? are you concerned about minority outreach? do you think they're reaching out to black voters and energizing black voters the way they need? are there concerns about his outreach among hispanic polls. i saw a miami herald article

suggesting there's outreach to the hispanic voters in the state of florida not as good as they would like. what are you hearing on the ground? >> it's better than '16 but still has a distance to go is what i'm hearing on the ground. there needs to be more direct outreach and more emphasis on policies both in the black and brown communities. i think the article you referred to, i read as well, talks about in florida particularly there's a problem with latino voters in terms of some on the ground organizing and outreach. now given the pandemic, it becomes even more challenging, but you need to put effort over the challenge and clearly in the black community, if you had had more outreach in '16, i think that michigan, as well as pennsylvania, probably wisconsin, could have been a different story. what i hope does not happen is that the biden campaign becomes

intoxicated with the polls, which are at this point much better than they were 100 days out for clinton and trump. in fact, they were tied in some states, only one point difference in others, 100 days out, it's much different now. but if they are enticed by the polls, i think it would be to their detriment. the other thing, let's not forget, that could be a big enthusiastic reaction or inflate some reaction is who he chooses as a running mate and whether that running mate energizes in the black community, whether they be black or brown or not. i'd love to see a black woman but someone could accelerate or deflate where biden is in the black and brown communities in terms of turnout. >> the trump campaign has said

the past three, three and a half years they were going to get 15%, 20% of the black vote, i've heard that from several people inside the trump campaign. i know jonathan has as well over the past several years. is there any chance that the trump campaign, given the events of the last six months, given his racially singed rhetoric. given the things that tom cotton is saying, devin nunez is saying, the democratic party hates white people. is there that chance that donald trump can outperform past republicans in the black community. >> i think you and i have known donald trump throughout the years, joe, he wants to be a winner. he will be the republican that gets the least amount of votes for president in the history of the united states. i think he will be the rock bottom vote getter among blacks in republican party history.

no one has, in my view, i'm not talking just from my position but people i talk to on the ground in the churches, just people stopping me in the street all over the country as i travel, no one has, in my opinion, has energized such emotion and passion that people are willing to go out and vote and do whatever they have to do to vote against him. i think the biggest weapon for joe biden, in terms of energizing black turnout and brown turnout, is donald trump. he has worked hard at it and he will earn what he gets election day. >> especially with these rising coronavirus numbers. jackie, i want to find out what's going on on capitol hill in terms of getting things accomplished, a coronavirus bill to try to help americans through this. >> look, mika, we are days away from enhanced unemployment

insurance expiring for over 20 million americans. it's been a key lifeline throughout the pandemic as over 140,000 people have died and countless people have lost their jobs. the job losses are becoming increasingly permanent. right now the key sticking point is still if the amount of the unenhanced insurance employment, republicans maintain that the $600 a month that was granted in the previous stimulus package as disincentivized people to go back to work. democrats maintain that's not the case and they want to extend $600 a week through january 2021. you have numerous economists who have predicted if you take away the $600 a week the economy is going to shrink by 2% and cause countless more job losses. it's also really important to point out, though, that there's interparty tensions over the number as well.

steve mnuchin and mark meadows urged republicans and democrats to take a piecemeal approach and try to pass through the package on enhanced unemployment benefits this week but neither house speaker nancy pelosi nor majority leader mitch mcconnell have indicated they have any interest in a piecemeal approach. a number of other sticking points as well, including liability insurance, democrats have been against liability insurance since the beginning of this. you know, this is -- mcconnell has pushed for protections, lawsuit protections so that businesses and corporations can't be sued in the case that their workers come down with coronavirus. another really key important provision that is being discussed that isn't just a matter of the economy but is a matter of life and death as cases surge throughout the country is $25 billion in additional funding for covid-19 testing which republicans haven't indicated they have any

interest in right now. >> so, jackie, you also have, of course, over the weekend steve mnuchin going out with mark meadows and talking about how having the quote that many people keyed on, he said we're not going to use tax dollars to pay people to stay at home. and also, the talk of getting rid of the $600 benefit, others talking about reducing it to $200. and -- per week. and as you said, the impact of -- that will have on the economy, the impact that will have on unemployment, most economists agree, will be fairly devastating. even if they go down to 200, some are saying that will cost nearly 1 million jobs by the year's end. so what is the likelihood that republicans are going to take

this approach that's going to be seen harsh by most voters that they're just going to cut off the benefits or reduce them to $200 a week. >> joe, you make a really good point here. bipartisan talks haven't even begun because the white house and the senate gop haven't come up with a final plan or proposal. that's because as you pointed out, there are a lot of vulnerable republicans and we just saw the polling because you guys ran through, trump is a drag on most of these republicans who are up for re-election. they believe that, you know, cutting these benefits and the enhanced unemployment insurance for millions of americans is going to further hurt their chances in the middle of a pandemic when people are already struggling. that's a point of contention within the party. you have people like steven more advising the white house not to do this.

he said repeated he believes trump will lose the election if they continue these benefits but you have more republican voices saying they're necessary if the republicans want to maintain the senate majority. still ahead on "morning joe," florida has now reported more coronavirus cases than the state of new york. which was once the epicenter of the pandemic. we're going to bring in "morning joe" medical correspondent dr. dave campbell. plus the senate's top democrat chuck schumer will be our guest. we'll talk about the violence we've seen nationwide as president trump steps up law enforcement in cities that have not asked for it. you're watching "morning joe" we'll be right back. the original unemployment benefits urged people to stay

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new coronavirus cases continue to surge in georgia and the state's death rate remains at high levels. on saturday, nearly 330 deaths were reported for a record weekly high. that's up by 90% from the previous week. meanwhile, florida has become the global epicenter of the coronavirus. after confirming more cases than new york state -- >> hold on. i just want to stop there for a second. >> put a frame around that. >> john heileman -- >> what the heck. >> -- this is an example we talk about campaigns and we talk about elections. a lot of times you watch event

throughout the day and it's like a sporting event. i remember driving after katrina and my then chief of staff said we sit there and tick off people idealogically, whether they're pro-life, pro this and pro that, antithis anti that. and he said we never get around to what type of leader will they be in a crisis? we've done that in florida a good bit because we get three or four hurricanes every year and we've seen what leadership means. think about what we've seen out of florida over the past six months. you have ron desantis, who had that extraordinary press conference with mike pence basically saying i win. that was his mission accomplished moment. you have marco rubio, at the time when the media was trying

to warn floridians about the coronavirus. saying it seemed like the media was cheering for people to die, something along those lines. just abysmal leadership from desantis and others and now florida, i can't believe i'm saying this. florida is the global epicenter of the worst pandemic in over a century. what does that say about leadership? real leadership and the impact it -- the life and death impact that it's having especially on florida seniors right now? >> well, i mean, joe i think in these cases when there's a life and death crisis, the quality of leadership matters enormously. and i think it's explains a lot about the politics of this this moment that voters across the spectrum are looking at the

handling of coronavirus at the national level and in their individual states as the main prism by which they look at this forthcoming election. and, you know, ron desantis, i got to say, we are not geniuses here, we're not -- >> no. >> -- but when you saw him give that press conference, mocking the media, saying that we all were wrong and foolish to say that florida was going to look like new york and it's been weeks now and we have basically won, i mean, it was the classic, as you said, mission accomplished moment. and at the time you watched him and say, boy, man, you are counting some chickens before they hatch, this is a dangerous thing to do. >> that's right. >> when you think you're playing a winning hand in politics, the best thing to do is be humble, graceful and not start boasting about your success and not start trashing the press. if you're going to win the game in the long one r run, that's the best posture, now the video

is out there. and as bad as the leadership has been, that video will haunt ron desantis all the way to the next time he has to run for re-election. >> at the same time trump in january was saying, while biden was saying, listen to the doctors, we're not ready for the pandemic, donald trump saying it's just one person it'll going to go away. it's just 15 people. soon it's going to be zero. what about him saying it's going to go away in april -- >> what about anybody who wants a test can get a test? >> yeah. >> now he doesn't want tests. >> try saying that to people in florida who can't get tests and people across the country having to wait 7 to 10 days, and by that time the test really doesn't matter in the very least. as john heileman said, speaking for john and myself, we're not

the smartest guys in the world. everybody knows i'm just a dumb country lawyer but you know what i did from the beginning of this? i said, listen to the doctors. >> yeah. >> i remember when desantis was going out, the governor was going out and saying we won. and when people were saying where does desantis and where does the governor of georgia go for their apologies, wait who gets apologies, who declares victory in the second inning of a nine inning game? why did i say how we were in the second or third inning? is it because i have great insight? no. >> it's basic stuff. >> we listened to doctors. we listened to epidemiologists who predicted this was coming. who said, we're in the second inning of a nine inning game. maybe now we're in the fourth or fifth inning but my god, these governors, all they had to do is listen to doctors, listen to

scientists, listen to epidemiologists. and instead, they listened to a former reality tv host. 150,000 americans are dead, seniors in florida and arizona are scared, for good reason. and the state of florida, my home state, it's the center -- it is the center of a pandemic right now. the global -- the global hot spot of the pandemic because of bad leadership. >> florida's numbers stand out globally, so do california's. florida has reported nearly 415,000 cases and has seen a record daily coronavirus death count based on a seven-day

moving ample. so that's pretty bad. that's along with texas and california. florida, actually, joe if you can believe this, while it stands out in the world in terms of its numbers, it is second on the list of u.s. states with the highest number of total cases since the start of the pandemic. also standing out globally is california. leading the country and the world with more than 444,000 cases. new york is now third. remember new york? joining us now, "morning joe" chief medical correspondent dr. dave campbell. dave it's great to have you back on the show. so much to ask you. we've always been concerned about this with places like new york and boston. in fact, massachusetts graduated med students early to deal with the health care worker shortage. what do some of the hot spot states do? i figure there's a shortage of

health care workers once again. >> yeah, it's -- mika, it's really city by city. you have miami, which is the epicenter of the epicenter across the world. you have houston, baton rouge, other cities where there are surges that along with the increasing number of positive cases a few weeks later come people who are sick and then a few weeks later you see people getting in in the hospital. once you have patients in the hospital or the emergency department or the icu, you need a lot of support personnel. your typical critical care patient that's in the icu needs one nurse per patient, needs nursing assistance, respiratory they were misses to manage lines and oxygen and infusions, what the nurses and nursing assistants are managing. there aren't enough people to cover those patients in in the hard-hit cities.

and a lot of the cities are asking for help from the federal government, from agencies that supply traveling-type nursing, nursing assistants, and even those companies are short because the health care workers that work for the company, that travel, some of those are, of course, sick, some are in quarantine because they've been exposed to patients that were sick with covid and maybe didn't have full ppe on when they had the exposure and they had to go home and wait for a couple of weeks. so it's spread across the country, california, texas, miami in florida is struggling to find the personnel. they can find the rooms. they can convert entire wards from surgical wards to covid wards but they need to find the people, the health care workers to help, mika. >> so, dave, california and florida top the list. california has the most overall

cases and it's been a little more rolling than florida. we've seen through july, though, florida set the record for the daily new cases day in and day out it seemed, especially starting a week or two ago. what do florida -- what are florida officials doing to slow down that rate of infection and what do florida officials need to do to slow down that rate of infection to protect our senior citizens, to protect children even with underlying conditions as a few of my children have, to protect others across the state? this isn't just a disease that has serious impact on senior citizens. >> joe, first, the officials need to recognize what we see on the ground, at home, at hospitals and out in the

community, and that is there are lots and lots of people that are not adhering to social distancing, face mask wear, and forget about hand washing. so if the officials will see what we are seeing, they will then recognize that just saying to their people to wear a mask or if you want to wear a mask wear it, or putting into place certain rules and regulations, counting with schools opening. these officials need to look at the reality and see that large swaths of the population are not adhering to common sense dictates that will slow down the spread. therefore, they need to put into place ever increasing regulations, whether that means shutting things back down progressively or in a large way, shutting down large parts of the economy and schools and businesses and bars and tattoo

parlors, they clearly aren't seeing what we are all seeing on the ground every day across florida. certainly here in south florida, joe. >> wow. >> all right. >> dr. dave campbell, thank you very, very much. good to have you on. and still ahead, with tensions ratcheting up between the u.s. and china, secretary of state mike pompeo gave a speech last week that richard hass says not only misrepresented history but advocating a policy for the most important relationship in this era that is neither viable nor coherent, richard joins us next on "morning joe." d joins us nex on "morning joe. from the hospital shifting to remote patient care in just 48 hours... to the university moving hundreds of apps quickly to the cloud... or the city government going digital

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joining us now the president of the council on foreign relations and author of the book "the world," richard haass.

you took issue with a few things the secretary of state had to say? >> yes, i did. he gave a speech at the nixon library late last week. what he did was i thought misrepresent the past. he called engagement by china essentially a failure. last i checked we cemented the sign our soviet split and won the cold war. and going forward we've seen not so much the policy change of china he went to the edge of calling for a regime change. i just don't think we have the ability to bring about regime change in china. meanwhile, to paraphrase donald ru ru rumsfelled we need to negotiate with the government that does exist and we need to push china

to change its ways at home in terms of human rights, hong kong, what it's doing in in the region and on the other hand we have to work closely with our allies, rather than bashing them or ignoring them and put up a common front against china. and there are things we need to do at home to better compete with china. that would be a serious policy. >> and also, mike pompeo talking about democracy, talking about freedom, talking about several things that right now across the world many of our closest allies believe the united states is actively working against itself. that donald trump is actively working against itself. a look at what's happening in portland, in seattle, those are huge propaganda wins for russia, for china, for all of those people who consider themselves our enemies.

>> exactly right, joe. if you're going to talk the talk you have to walk the walk. and an administration that's targeted the media, targeted judges, now sending federal troops to wipe out decent in american cities hard to take on china and what they're doing in hong kong. all the things we should be criticizing. if we were serious about human rights and democracy around the world, where is this administration on putin and russia, on erdogan and turkey? we could go hopscotching around the world. instead they're singling out china. this is just simply opportunity. >> you look at what donald trump has done the last three and a half years, apologizing for vladimir putin, taking vladimir putin's side over the u.s. intel

community's, basically accepting what he's doing in ukraine, in crimea. jonathan lemire, according to john bolton, giving the go ahead for the building of the concentration camps saying that was fine with him in china you look at the dirty deals that bolton was afraid he was doing with erdogan in turkey. this is a president who, over the past three and a half years, with the full support of the secretary of state has acted contem contemptously of his allies in the west and cozied up to one regime or another. >> this is a president from day one has cozied up to men across the globe and stranged our alliances. i was there in brussels when he almost flew up nato.

we have seen the trade wars with the european union and the relationship with china has been so scattered shot. so much of the campaign in 2015, 2016, was about being tough on china. once he took office he was flattered with a remarkable state visit in beijing and one of his first foreign trip to asia, he seemed to be wowed by china and changed his tone. he was so key to get this trade deal, which he thought would be politically beneficial to him. we know he would not call out human rights abuses carried out by china. and we know that -- no better example than earlier this year when he was trying to find the second phase of the deal and that led him to be slow to call out xi jingping and china for the coronavirus as it was bursting to life overseas and he didn't push for american scientists and medical experts

to get on the ground there and it cost the united states precious time. richard, on that idea, with relationships so strained right now between beijing and washington, the pandemic is obviously still going. there's a race for a vaccine, there's a race for treatments. right now is it possible that the cold war that seemingly we're on the verge with with china is going to work against the development and distribution of a vaccine to both americans and the chinese? >> short answer is yes, jonathan. neither china nor the united states has joined this international effort that has essentially pledged to make available any vaccine that emerges to people around the world. each one seems to be approaching a vaccine as a form of foreign policy in a narrowing sense. let me say, i think things between the united states and china, as rough as they are, can get worse quickly.

i can imagine there being an incident in the south china sea. i can imagine the united states banning the industry of all 90 million or so members of the chinese communist party. i can imagine the administration reopening the taiwan issue which would be an existential question for china. i think this is the most dangerous period in u.s. chinese relations for half a century. we're not talking just any relationship, this is the single most defining relationship of this period of history. so much will follow what happens between these two great powers and right now everything, i believe, is in play. >> john heileman, one of donald trump's problems in this campaign is everywhere that he wants to go to attack joe biden, if it's on saying something incoherent on camera, of course, the situation is worse for donald trump. nowhere is that more true, i

believe, than in his relationship with china. jonathan lemire reminded me of donald trump on january 24th, congratulating president xi for the coronavirus. and this quote, from spring of 2018 as president xi consolidated power, became leader for life, the most powerful chinese leader, and donald trump said this at a mara low go speech. he's now president for life. he's great. and look, he was able to do that. i think it's great. maybe we'll have to give that a shot some day. donald trump congratulating

president xi for consolidating power, becoming autocrat for life in china and saying that one day maybe we can try that here. he's had -- it's been a schizophrenic relationship with china because there is no doubt, you can find quote after quote of donald trump praising president xi for amassing power. >> yes, exactly, joe. i think, you know, it's been one of the great schizophrenic trump issues throughout the entirety of his administration, jonathan pointed out that getting tough on china was an important part of trump's appeal to white, working class voters in 2016. it was a huge issue for steve bannon, when bannon was central to trump's political vision and

bannon brought a china hawkishness into the white house, wanted it central to trump's politics and then trump for reasons you laid out, partly because of the economics with trade deals with china and partly because of the way they treated him, and he looked at the position that president xi had, and couldn't help himself with quotes like you just read. and now, facing joe biden, there's still a strong china hawk contingent on the policy and politics inside. one way to think about mike pompeo is don't think of him strictly as secretary of state, he's someone who wants to run as china and right now is a political instrument of the president and those inside the administration, as they look around for issues which they can beat up joe biden, the china issue is one that the china

hawks are trying to pull into the center of donald trump's campaign but you point out how difficult that is because as with so many other things, there's not just one tweet for that, there's a lot of tweets for that sp a lot of quotes that make donald trump an imperfect messenger for this campaign and trying to beat up joe biden and his position in it. >> john heileman, jonathan lemire, and richard haass thank you all for being on this morning. from coast-to-coast, escalating violence between protesters and local and federal piece and president trump is seizing on the images of unrest. we'll get reverend al's take on that and bill bratton will be our guest. "morning joe" is back in a moment. our guest. "morning joe" is back in a moment ♪ ♪ ♪

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alzheimer's and the president bragging about passing a test that he said was very hard at the end. welcome back to "morning joe" it's monday, july 27th. reverend al sharpton is still with us. and we have mike barnicle, errin haines with us, and mark leibovich joins us. we have new 2020 polling from several key states that continue to show joe biden with quite a lead over president trump. in arizona, an nbc news poll has biden up 50% to trump's 45. a cnn poll has it 49 to 45. in michigan, a cbs news poll has biden up 6 points, 48% to 42%.

while the cnn ssrs poll puts biden's michigan margin at 12 points. the fox news poll we showed you on friday has biden leading in michigan at 9 points. in ohio, the cbs news yougov poll has them in a tie. in florida, the confederann pol trump trailing 46 to 51 president and in north carolina, joe biden is up 51 to 44. >> arizona up, ohio a tie, north carolina biden up 7%. you look at republicans getting blown out in senate races, whether you're looking at arizona or north carolina, things not looking so good for

them in maine or colorado as well. and this is shaping up, 100 days out, 99 days out, to be a very bad year for the republican party that has turned its soul over to donald trump. is it too late for donald trump to come back or do you think that the biden campaign understands we still have a long way to go? >> i think they understand this race has a long way to go and everyone involved in politics, in your experience you know this to be true, this race is going to tighten up. >> a week is a lifetime in politics. that's a famous saying, but a week is a lifetime in many politics. and we found that out, didn't we mike, at the end of 2016, with comey's letter. >> absolutely. and that was within -- that was,

i think, within ten days of the election when jim comey dropped that fatal letter on hillary clinton's campaign. one thing is clear, i think you know this as well, this race is simplified into three basic issues that are understandable. vaccine, the disease, covid. race, what's going on in this country. and donald trump. those are the three main issues in this race and it's all going to resolve around those three things but donald trump is the clear pivotal figure in this campaign and his incompetence in running this country, dealing with the virus i think is the number one issue that's going to keep this race separated for the winner, joe biden. >> let's look at the senate races. in arizona's key senate race polling shows democrat mark kelly has a double digit lead over republican senator martha mcsally.

a new nbc news poll has kelly up 12 points, 53% to 41% in a new cnn ssrs poll has kelly leading mcsally 50% to 43. north carolina cal cunningham, democratic leads republican incumbent thom tillis 50 to 41. >> north carolina a nine point race against a sitting republican incumbent. it seems there are only two words to explain that big of a gap, donald trump. >> yeah. and what's even more remarkable is that donald trump is actually performing better than the senate candidates in north carolina, arizona, colorado, some of the states that are certainly leaning strongly towards the democrats. but, you know, what's i think striking about this, and every one of these conversations as the caveat, yeah, everything can change in a week look at what

happened when michael dukakis was up 17 points. this has been a steady trend for the last four months since the virus began. even before the virus began, donald trump's numbers never made it beyond the mid 40s. so this is a snapshot but a pretty consistent portrait of where the electorate is. the other part of the bad news for trump, it's unclear what's going to turn it around the next 100 days. it's not like the economy is going to v-shape back. i think indicators are short term and also long term potentially. >> yeah. you know, reverend al, you look at how poorly these republican senate candidates are doing. you talked about how the events of the past six months are going to have a negative impact on donald trump in terms of black

voters. but you remember after charlottesville, there were a lot of republicans in the suburbs who turned on donald trump, a lot of republicans in northern virginia who turned on donald trump for that 2017 election. and here, this weekend, i saw two quotes, one from devin nunes, talking about the democratic party, quote, hating white people. which wasn't -- it's not a dog whistle. that is a blaring, blaring horn to white supremacists and racists. and then you had tom cotton and he's tried to push back on this, but the guy went to harvard law school he knows how to draft a sentence, he wrote, as the founding fathers said, savely was the necessary evil upon

which the was built. we can all read english. he tried blaming that on the media, blame it on himself or whoever drafted that, but rev, these sort of quotes not only damage donald trump and republican senators with black voters, with latino voters, with asian-american voters, it, of course, damages donald trump's prospects of ever winning back white suburban voters in the suburbs of philly, in the i-4 corridor in mccomb county, michigan. in the suburbs of milwaukee, the suburbs of pittsburgh. this blatant racism is devastating and self-defeating not only to donald trump's

election chances but also to a lot of the republican senators in arizona and north carolina. >> what you're saying is critical in terms of dealing with the political climate. there are those in the suburbs, those in the white community that will say, i'm a little more conservative in terms of how we deal with government spending or i'm a little more conservative in how we deal with criminal justice issues. but i'm not prepared to say because my friend or my neighbor is a democrat they hate white people. and even more alarming, i'm clearly not going to identify with saying that enslaving human beings, making them three fifths of a man, making their life's duty to serve me with no wages is a necessary evil. that's a bridge too far for many people in the conservative community.

forget those of us appalled and outraged because you're talking about us. you're talking about people every day trying to live their lives, who believe in this country, saying it's necessary we enslaved people and treated them as bare bari barbarians tos country. and you want me to say that people at the work site with me, happen to have a different political party really just hate while people. that's when people are not prepared to koe sign that. i think it's a tremendous moral outrage and a more tremendous political miscalculation on suburban and republican conservative whites. >> protests over racial justice turned violent over the weekend, fuelled in large part by the anger over federal forces deployed to portland.

thousands protested across the country, in lieuville, kentucky, in texas. riots declared in seattle and portland on sunday. more than 20 officers were injured after being hit with rocks and explosives, 40 people were arrested. and riters broke through a fence and set fire to this youth detention center that was under construction. five people were shot in protests across the country. a protester carrying a rifle was shot and killed by a motorist. in aura, colorado police say this suv was fired at while driving down the interstate toward protesters. another person in the crowd was also hit. this was the scene in portland saturday night.

under utter mayhem. the protesters are shown limping away, one of them hit by a rubber bullet. president trump tweeted about portland accusing the protesters of being anarchists who hate our country. a princeton university protester who studied violence in sicivil rights campaigns points that protesters could hurt their cause. the narrative of which side is creating the violence at p protests could impact the election. if we see growing violence resistance that becomes a justification for more oppression by the state. we haven't seen this since the immediate aftermath since george floyd's death and it only came after the president unleashed

military-style federal forces on mostly peaceful protesters in portland and only after videos of this one went viral of a navy veteran being beaten trying to talk to the agents. the "new york times" said its investigation found that federal officers escalated violence in portland after they arrived on the fourth of july. here's a clip from the report and a warning it is graphic. >> according to a government memo, these units are insufficiently trained to do crowd control but that hasn't stopped them from trying. night after night video shows the officers emerging from the two federal buildings as protesters draw near. hundreds of videos show that although protesters were antagonistic, officers responded with disproportionate force. they blanketed streets with tear

gas. >> are you okay? >> disrupt protesters with batons. and use flash bags, pepper balls. and other less lethal munitions to clear the streets. their actions often appeared to escalate, rather than de-escalate matters. and in some instances they attacked when there's no threat. protester jonathan is at the courthouse when an officer appears to fire at his head in retaliation for throwing a spent tear gas canister. he suffered skull fractures and needed surgery according to his mother. later that night, when help was sought for an injured

protesters, paramedics were cleared away. >> the escalation continues and does -- there doesn't seem to be any sight of letting up. what are your thoughts? >> well, this, actually, reminds me -- i was on the ground in ferguson in 2014 when federal troops came to that suburb of st. louis and you saw, you know, armored vehicles and police in riot gear in a suburban neighborhood with neatly manicured lawns you had tear gas canisters in the grass. it was a surreal sight. and i can tell you, it insighted violence between the law enforcement and protesters

trying to raise the issue of police reform at the nor of our national reckoning on race. this is part of a continuum. the involvement of federal law enforcement during the civil rights movement, their clashes with protesters but something that was dramatic and ratcheted up the stakes there. but actually helped people, including white people, to see, you know, just to kind of concede for the first time the idea that maybe there was disproportionate treatment by police in communities of color. but what i think is also interesting about this moment, as was noted in the "new york times," in a story they had in recent days, you had portland, a city overwhelmingly white being at the center of the black lives matter movement in this moment. so you do have a lot of white people who are now seeing to the

point in that video the disproportionate response that law enforcement can give to folks who, again, are trying to raise awareness around the issue of systemic racism. when you have the president, others going back to a racial playbook, you know, that is something that is at odds with where a lot of the country is in this moment around the issue of policing and police reform. you know, his response on the coronavirus, that tone may be changing, but on the dual pandemic, the other part being systemic racism, you're seeing he is, in fact, doubling down in a moment when the country is more open to talking about police reform and the need for police reform. the wnba in their opening season weekend had black lives matter painted on the court. that's a sea change from 2016 when not necessarily a lot of the country was on board with

the idea of black lives matter. >> yeah, and reverend al we are seeing a sea change in a lot of different areas of american life and we've talked about it here a good bit. the opening game, major league baseball, you have black lives matter being stencilled in on the field in many places. in boston, they have a huge black lives matter sign in centerfield, which is a good thing so maybe people don't notice their pitchers and how bad they are. mike barnicle will talk about that later, good lord. but you had in the opening game, the nationals against the yankees, everybody kneeling together. >> um-hum. >> and those are symbolic but a lot of positive advances. but we look at what's happening in portland, what happened in seattle this weekend, what

happened in oakland, and you have breaking of windows at a courthouse, setting fire to federal buildings, firing guns in crowds, committing acts of violence that most americans, including myself, think is repugna repugnant. now, of course, frightening donald trump's use of federal forces is obviously chilling and frightening but two things can be true at the same time. i just wonder whether we're seeing some of the outside agitators that we saw throughout the beginning of the george floyd protests and i wonder if you think any of these actions or -- are something we should just look away from and not be concern about? not be concerned about the escalation? >> the head of the portland naacp had said that we cannot

what started as a legitimate protest around the racism and the anger around george floyd and the police abuse become now something else and be exploited as a spectacle. there are legitimate forces on the ground in portland that started this movement and continue. and then there are other forces that are there for different reasons. some are there because they have a real difference with how policing is going and respond differently. you have mothers there standing as barricades between the feds and demonstrators. and others are just there causing some kind of -- playing into what would be detrimental to the cause. i think, you know, when i was looking at the services over the weekend of john lewis, that's the thing that those that were older than me that helped train my generation, the john lewises,

the 15-year age difference between us, used to tell us you can't let your anger feed into your enemy's benefit. because what donald trump needs right now is to become the law and order person against people that have made people perceive that the nation is out of control, therefore, we need someone to get control. when you have everyone now saying, as you just cited, joe, black lives matter in the major cultural events of the country, we going from colin kaepernick being controversial to everybody being main stream, taking a knee you didn't know could bend down to their knees. don't get to the 1 yard line and blow winning the game by letting people incite you into throwing the ball at them rather than carry the ball across the goal

line. >> rev, so many americans have been so moved by the marches and in response to the killing, to the murder of george floyd, that it's moved opinion polls in a way that have not been moved in decades on issues of race in america. yet you're right. what's happening in portland, as the head of the naacp said there, too often just looks like a spectacle. and you wonder how many people are there protesting george floyd's death and how many people are there creating the spectacle. >> and i've experienced that in my life where people will do that for outside reasons. these are not the people in portland, these are not the people in the indigenous community. when erin talks about ferguson

and i was there, those were the people that were angry that lived in ferguson. >> yes. >> but we're talking about people that are not from portland -- i'm talking some of the people. the young activists there, they've been doing this for 59 or more days, we're talking in the last several days they should not distort the message. this is about policing, this is about racism, this is not about whether we want to tear something down, it's about we want to build something up and they cannot be allowed to get in the way of the message because then they become just as adversarial to the cause as those we're fighting. >> errin, i'm glad you brought up ferguson because i remember during ferguson mike barnicle being outraged by the military hardware that was there, and said, those aren't police officers. they look more like they're

fighting a foreign war. and you were so right about ferguson that that was, obviously, the people of ferguson that were protesting against systemic racism. >> and they had gone through a proven litany of where they were overzealous in terms of giving parking tickets and fines to cover the deficit of ferguson. this was something that had built up over a period of years. i think that's what the president of the local chapter in portland is saying, what the community is saying. let's not let us be manipulated by people who have other things that m come in and exploit the causes and leave us with the same racism in this place because there is a difference between a fit and a movement. we don't need to throw fits we need to have movements. that's what they were doing in portland and what they need to continue to do. that's why we're having this

washington march. you have to frame it where you're dealing with legislation. you can't pass the george floyd policing justice built in honor of john lewis if we appear like we are some kind of reckless band of people that want to burn the country down. you must show you're better than the forces you're fighting. you don't match brute force by brute force you match it by saying that's the brute force we're trying to rid out of our society that has held us down. >> errin? >> reverend sharpton, who is clearly a student of the movement understands something that, again, people like dr. king, people like congressman john lewis, like reverend c.t. vivian, whose passing we are in the midst of celebrating and honoring those legacies. they were strategic. and they understood, you know, that anything that was a

distraction from the message and from the issues they were trying to raise to make change was hurtful to those movements and that was certainly the case with the young protesters that i engaged with in ferguson. to be sure, there was a lot of anger on the ground there from long-standing systemic issues. but in trying to get those issues addressed, keeping the focus on those issues meant not having scenes of things on fire, of clashes with law enforcement that seemed kind of at odds with, you know, a major american city. those were not things that were helpful to really talking about the issues of not only police violence but the systemic inequality that had been running rampant in the community and was really ravaging the african-american community for decades.

so i also think what you have, you have a media that's more aware of that long history and that context. so even in covering scenes like what we've seen in portland unfolding in the past few days. understanding that the overwhelming majority of the protests we've seen amid the national reckoning have been peaceful. the understanding that these are protests about the need for police reform and continuing to ask about that issue and to raise awareness about that issue. and now you have, with the return of sports, you have, you know, athletes peacefully protesting on the court. the wnba in that opening game, you had players walking off the court as the anthem was being played. you have people with breonna taylor's name on the back of their jersey. that is a peaceful protest also being scene by americans who are tuning back into sports in this moment.

i think those kinds of things are helping to refocus the message away from some of the more chaotic scenes that are seen by some as a distraction. >> sure. errin, thank you very much. still ahead on "morning joe," new reporting on what must happen before schools can reopen safely, even though some are reopening. plus top senate democratic chuck schumer will join us on where stimulus talks now stand. you're watching "morning joe" we'll be right back. >> the democratic party, it's odd for a party that seems to be against white people and always talking about racism they sure like to prop up the avatar old white dudes, they have one running if for president right now who's hiding in his basement. can my side be firm?

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dr. anthony fauci, who i know you've been reporting on, exactly how do we move forward? and some republicans who want to follow the science when you have the president and other republicans attacking the most trusted man in america. >> well, this is -- the dr. fauci situation is just another example of how the republican party at this point seems to be leading with what used to be considered the fringe. before we went to the commercial there was devin nunes came out, had his thing yesterday about the democrats not liking white people. ted yoho was in the news last week for his thing with aoc. and then you have the ambush in the republican caucus meeting in the house, a bunch of republicans getting on liz cheney for defending dr. fauci, probably the most decorated

doctor in america over the last 40, 50 years, a guy beyond reproach but obviously in donald trump's america, the beyond reproach business, sacred cow business is seeing times. the frustration is that the mouthpiece has been turned over to what used to be the fringes and, you know, people who want to be taken seriously as the head of the republican party in the future, tom cotton or liz cheney, whoever, are being crowded out seriously by a lot of this stuff. >> wow. mark leibovich, thank you for your reporting. now to the question of how schools can reopen amid this pandemic especially in hot spots or places the numbers are rising. according to a recent associated press poll, only about one in day americans think day cares, preschools or k-to-12 schools

should reopen without any restrictions. joining us political reporter ally vitali. you spoke to a few teachers about their struggles to reopen classrooms this fall, what did you find? i would think a lot were scared? >> yeah, in this conversation back-to-school come fall there's a focus on students and the decision their parents have to make. but this is also a decision about whether or not to spend teachers back into their classrooms, that is something that impacts teachers across the country but the reality is most of the educators are women. as schools figure out what back to school looks like, no good choices and no playbook. teachers across the country left to solve an every-changing equation. >> i'm waiting to hear back on what they had planned for us. >> feeling left out of the

process -- do you have any say in this? >> if i do i'm not aware of it. >> and emotionally torn. >> i want to be with my students but i don't want to affect my family. >> are you scared for yourself? >> yeah, i don't want to get covid. >> i feel it's not an if you get covid, it's when. when am i going to get it? >> a fear rippling through one of the biggest employments. one that affects mostly women. >> they are also dismissed and disrespected in terms of their opinions. >> we know what goes on in a classroom and it's like nobody wants to hear that. they think we're making it up. >> the federal government has been clear they want schools open and kids back at their desks. but even as cdc guidelines focus on in-person learning, there's a

risk -- >> obviously if the virus is high you have to temper your opening. one size does not fit all. >> still lingering questions from the people doing the teaching. >> how do we address attendance? get the kids online? >> i'm not sure how they're trying to do staggered classes, lunchtimes -- >> all of the legitimate questions you have a blank. it is presumed that we will figure it out. it is presumed we're just super people. >> they're also people with health considerations for themselves and their loved ones. >> my mom has a compromised immune system and i -- you know, i'm the only one that can go take care of her. >> to kids. nearly half of teachers have school-age children. >> your child school could be making one decision whereas your school where you work is making another decision. >> and there's the question of who's making decisions on school

policy where women are the majority of teachers a survey shows men are the majority of superintendents. >> it's funny that most of those conversations are probably happening over zoom because they don't feel it's safe enough to meet in person. >> reporter: and there are new supplies on the back-to-school list, including ppe but no answers on who pays for it. >> there were no paper to ywels no soap. it's hard when there's a shortage, to find it for your home, that tie'hey're going to d it in bulk. >> part of my job is keeping my students safe, and i'm not going to be able to do that this year. i can't follow the guidelines, i don't have enough space, equipment, it's not possible. >> but then nothing else about this moment seemed possible either. >> nobody thought you were going to go into teaching and be on

the frontline. >> there was something shocking that stuck with me from my conversations with the teachers some were talking about whether they should draft their wills. just hammered home how life or death the stakes are here and the conversation has devolved into one that's politically, unfortunately. >> great piece. thank you very much. i want to bring in science contribute er-lori garrett, a journalist who authored books "the coming plague," and "betrayal of trust". she's also a columnist for foreign policy magazine for which she has a new piece, entitled, america's schools are a moral and medical catastrophe. listening to and looking at ali vitali's piece, everything is about touching things and

touching everyone and contact and connection, and i don't think enough emphasize has been placed on the risks that these teachers are facing. >> it's interesting, mika, the cdc revised document, rewritten by the white house and the leadership at hhs, and took out much of the recommendations that had been put out originally as cautions from the cdc. instead it's a document boosting, let's get the schools open quick and mostly from the point of view of the view. there's almost no mention of the teachers. osha, the occupational safety and health administration which normally in that situation like this would give out strict guidelines for safely in the work place has been mum. >> at this point, let's go

through the states. some of the states that are hot spots, texas, california, florida, is it safe for kids to go back to school? >> i think we can say without a fact -- any doubt, emphatically, you cannot open schools in areas where the background rate of new and continuous transmission of this virus is high. there's just no way. it's just not safe. it's not safe for the parents to take the kids to school, not safe on the buses, in the classroom. it's ludicrous, a one size fits all policy does not exist. if you're in a community like mine where the sacrifices have been made, the rate of covid-19 spread has been beaten back then perhaps it may be possible to do some sort of staggered opening, which is what is planned for new york city. but if you're in a community like miami, like phoenix, like los angeles where rates are

skyrocketing and nothing is under control, you're just begging for disaster. >> super spreader events every day. mike barnicle has the next question. mike? >>, you know, one of the interesting aspects of this discussion right here, right now, is that we still don't know a whole lot about the virus and the fact that we are asking people to gamble with their children, laurie, i don't think -- i think a lot of people would gamble on almost anything at this point we 'so bored, but we're not going to gamble with the future and present health of our children by sending them into schools where the questions remain completely unanswered, at least from my point of view, about what's going to happen in those classrooms. >> we have to weigh two different types of science and social policy here in making decisions. it's very clear we have tens of millions of children across america whose families depend on

school free lunch programs and free breakfast programs. as absolutely critical components of the child's meal every day, children aren't getting that food right now. this is only going to get worse as unemployment checks run out, as evictions start happening and the pressures on families get worse. we also know that children need to be around other children that peer-to-peer pressure is crucial to socialization to learn how to deal with power and gender and race. so there's a lot that kids are losing, they're not getting educated online. the science tells us, particularly from south korea, germany, denmark, countries that got it right, young children are unlikely to spread the virus but teenagers are as likely to spread virus to their teacher and home as are adults.

so you don't want the same policies strictly put in place for 5 year olds and 6-year-olds as you do for 16 and 15-year-olds. >> very tough. nbc science contributor laurie garrett, thank you. actually, it's not, it's basic. we appreciate you coming on. lawy laurie's new piece is entitlemented "america's schools are a moral and medical catastrophe". it's worth a weird. let's bring in chuck schumer of new york. great to have you on the show this morning. first of all, i'd like for you to comment on whether or not you feel it's safe for children in your state but also across america to go back to school? >> i think safety has to come first. if we let donald trump push us around, he pushed around his governors in texas and arizona

and florida and georgia to open up too quickly and look what's happened there. if you open a school too quickly, a kid, teacher gets coronavirus and then the school has on to shutdown, that's worse. we have proposed something that might really help. there are ways schools can be made safe but they need a lot of resources. they need money for masks. i was up at a school district in upstate new york, 4,000 students, 5,000 administrator, if they give a mask every day, about four or 500,000. they have to change bus routes, double the bus routes. they want to take their gyms and cafeterias and convert them to classrooms. we proposed quickly, if the republicans would get their act together and negotiate with us, money to go to the schools to

make them safer because we want to open the schools but only if they're safe as laurie garrett said. >> where do the stimulus talks stand? when it comes to up. for schools, schools are starting soon, in less than a few weeks. >> you bring up a great point. this is why we're at the cliff. we passed our comprehensive bill, bold, helping american families close to two and a half months ago. we still don't have the proposal from the republicans. they're divided. donald trump provides no leadership. lindsey graham said there are half of the people in the republican caucus that will vote for no stimulus. three weeks ago, speaker pelosi and i sent a letter to mcconnell and said let's sit down and talk but they're so divided and we have all these cliffs, unemployment running out, renter protection running out, state and local governments going into

new month and won't have the money and will lay off thousands and thousands of people. we still at this moment doesn't have a plan from the republicans. we want to sit down and negotiate. but you can't negotiate with a ghost. >> reverend al? >> senator schumer, as we look at the deadline, there are people that can't get by with their bills. we're seeing the first of august at the end of this weekend. and for people not to have the security that there's serious conversations to extend unemployment and to deal with new stimulus, i know you well. i know you know how nerve racking and the anxiety it causes the citizens -- >> it's appalling. these are people who lost their jobs through no fault of their own. they want to feed their children, make sure to pay the rent so they're not kicked out

of their homes. that expired last thursday, the moratorium. how awful it is. you have kids you want to love them and treat them well and you don't know where money is going to come from. we proposed expanding the unemployment insurance, which has kept more people out of poverty until january 31st. now our republican friends are saying a bunch of different things some are saying let's not expand it at all. let's give a 30% pay cut to these folks? they're losing their jobs through no fault of their own and we should give them a pay cut? pandemic unemployment insurance has done more to pump money into the economy, than why you're seeing purchases go up and they want to crash the economy as well. and third, if they try to adjust

this -- here's another of their great plans. let's give people when they go back to work. people going back to work have a salary, what about the people who can't go back to work because their jobs are gone? finally, if they tweak the dials, their own secretary of labor said it'll take a month or two before we can readjust this program. the simple, easiest thing to do is extend it, it's been one of the most successful programs at keeping people out of poverty, getting money into the economy quickly. if we don't do it again we could go into a depression, as bad as this recession is. >> let's get to mike barnicle, he has the next question. mike? >> hi, mike. >> senator schumer, as we speak this morning, landlords are sending out eviction notices. people are going to be thrown out of their apartments. what are we going to do?

what are you going to do? what's going to happen here quickly to help the people? can anything happen quickly? >> we proposed two and a half months ago in the heroes act, $100 billion to help pay the rents for these people who have lost their no fault of their owo they can stay in their apartment. there was a moratorium for flee months. now it's expired these folks owe one month's rent. they lost their jobs. they can't pay three months' rent. extended moratorium, the people who own the buildings are little landlords, second family like boston and brooklyn. they need monday toy pay the heating bill. we proposed to pay in the heroes bill $100 billion to help renters pay their rents over the next few months while unemployment is bad, and we proposed $75 billion to help people who own homes who can't pay the mortgage so they won't be foreclosed out of their

homes. every expert says it will solve the problem. it's strong, it gets to the problem. we've asked our republican colleagues to meet with us. pelosi and i asked mcconnell to sit down and talk with us on this issue. we have planned 2 1/2 months. i have never, never -- this is frustrating for so many people see the party in disarray in the midst of a huge, huge crisis. we have the greatest economic crisis since the depression. we have the greatest health crisis since the spanish flu. and we have a republican party that has nothing -- you can't negotiate with a ghost. we don't even have a plan. they were supposed to have it monday morning, now they say they're delaying it. lindsey graham says it -- anyway. >> the economic crisis, the health crisis, we also have protests in the street, some of which are turning violent. we have the president sending the feds in to deal with the

problem, putting that in quotes. what's your message to protesters at this time especially since many are stepping out in the streets to push back against this federal -- >> right. >> -- invasion, i'm not sure if i used the right word, but the federal response. what's your advice to protesters? >> of course, we don't like it. there should be no violence. that is not the vast majority of protesters. they're peaceful. what started this? if you ask the mayor of portland and the governor of oregon and the two senators, it was calming down. what president trump decided to do in his awful inemmittable way. he's failing in the economy. he's failing in your last little

bit just showed. does he do what a president should do, roll up his sleeves and try to solve the problem? no. he does something that's nasty, divisive. the american people want us to come together. this is a crisis. so we have a proposal we're going to try to get in the covid 4 bill. very simple. it was offered by senator jeff markley. it has broad support in the democratic caucus which is as follows. one, no unmarked cars or police officers in or federal officers in these situations. it's got to say your name and the agency you work for. you pick someone up as the constitution says, you have to tell them who they are. more importantly, no federal agents can go -- they can stay on the federal property itself, but they can't go in the streets like here. they can't go like the picture you're showing. they can't go up and down and patrol the cities without the permission of the mayor and the governor. we have had federal people come in to help when there is unrest,

but it's at the request of the governors and the mayors. the governor and the mayor of oregon and other cities are saying, he's creating more disruption and more hostility. now, that's his m.o., but you know what, mika, he leads america wrong. americans want us to come together and solve these problems, not create diversive -- divisive, nasty and oftentimes bigoted issues. >> senator chuck schumer, thank you very, very much for being on the show this morning. >> thank you, thank you. stay healthy. >> thank you. and coming up, remembering regis. ♪ ♪ ♪ the open road is open again. and wherever you're headed, choice hotels is there.

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legendary television host regis philbin died friday night at the age of 88. a native new yorker, philbin found success hosting a number of local morning shows and other talk shows.

before he became a national star in 1988, on live with regis and kathie lee. after nearly 30 years, philbin left the show in 2011 after airing 6000 episodes, hosting more than 20,000 guests, and being seen by over a million in-studio audience members. he earned accolades for his work as a game show host for "who wants to be a millionaire." he his family issued a statement, we are forever grateful for the time we got to spend with him. for his warmth, his legendary sense of humor and his singular ability to make every day worth something talking about. philbin was also remembered by friends in the industry. former host of the late show david livermore wrote, in part, regis is in the same category as

carson. sue perfectlytive. he was on our show a million times. always the best guest we had. charming, lovable and could take a punch. when he retired, i lost interest in television. and, joe, i'll never forget when morning joe started and you put this show together and pitched it to phil griffin, regis was your inspiration. the first ten minutes of his show transfixed you. you thought, huh, that's interesting, you can just talk. >> it's interesting. he had this great schtick at the top of each hour. i said, look at regis. i know it sounds funny, but the first five, ten minutes of his show is the most compelling ten minutes in television because it's just what's on his mind, what's in his heart. speaking of his heart, mika, we had dinner with him.

a remarkable guy. he was the same person off the air that he was on the air. i know why david letterman said he loved him. if you knew regis, you loved regis. he just was a wonderful guy. he was so talented because he always showed his heart on television. he'll really be missed. >> well said. and we'll be right back with a very packed 8:00 a.m. hour of morning joe. t a zerowater. but we've always used brita. it's two stage-filter... doesn't compare to zerowater's 5-stage. this meter shows how much stuff, or dissolved solids, gets left behind. our tap water is 220. brita? 110... seriously? but zerowater- let me guess. zero? yup, that's how i know it is the purest-tasting water. i need to find the receipt for that. oh yeah, you do.

good morning, and welcome to morning joe. it is monday, july 27th. and with us we have msnbc national affairs analyst cohost of show times, the circus, and executive editor of the recount, david heilman. president of the national action network, reverend al sharpton is with us. and author of the washington post early morning newsletter, power up, jackie alemeny is with us. and this morning, the number of americans who die from the coronavirus is expected to cross 150,000. it is a tragic number by any account, a number that likely didn't have to be. most say this did not have to happen. and for a president who has been wrong repeatedly about the death toll, who continues to claim the virus will just disappear, we're

at almost 150,000 people. he perceived -- his perceived mishandling of the pandemic is showing up starkly in polling, including the critical swing states in this country. and 55 years after john lewis first crossed the edmund pettus bridge during a peaceful march for voting rights, the late congressman and civil rights icon crossed it one final time yesterday. his casket pulled across the bridge which was sprinkled with rose petals to represent the blood spilled there. we'll have more on that. but we begin this morning with new 2020 polling for several key states continuing to show joe bide wen a lead over president trump. in arizona, an nbc news marist poll has biden up 50% to trump's 45%. a cnn s, is srs poll 45.

michigan, a cbs yougov has him up 62% to 48%. while ssrs puts him up by 12%, the lead in michigan is 9 points. ohio the cbs news yougov poll has them in a statistical tie. and in florida, the cnn ssrs poll finds the president trailing joe biden -- trailing joe biden in florida by five points. 51% to 46%. joe? >> and we're going to get to new numbers that we just got out of north carolina and going to be going there for a report. that race also appearing to break open. john heilman, let's look at these numbers. arizona, joe biden plus 5.

michigan joe biden plus 6. plus 12 or plus 9 depending on which poll you believe over the past weekend, ohio is tied just like we saw. texas continues to be dead locked. georgia dead locked. florida, 51-46. i am noticing also that biden reaching the 50% threshold, something that politicians and retired politicians always look at. it's one thing to be ahead 42-38 with a lot of undecideds. biden crossing the threshold of 50% in several of these swing state polls. what's your take away? >> hey, good morning, joe. well, you know, i think we've got a picture here that continues the continuity that we've seen really for now the past two months, which is there's not a battle ground state of the six core battle ground states, there's not one. again, as always, reminding people the biden campaign and the trump campaign agree michigan, wisconsin, pennsylvania, north carolina, florida and arizona, those are

the core six, there's not one of them that donald trump won in all of 2016 and he's behind in all of them now. there is not anybody in the trump campaign who would privately disagree with that and there is no one in the biden campaign who doesn't look at that and say these are the six states, if we win these six states, we're going to win the presidency and these numbers suggest as joe biden has for the last two months, has been in a commanding position. some of these polls are tightening and i don't think anybody -- some people saw the florida polls up by 12 or 13 in florida. nobody on either side thinks joe bide sen going to win florida by 12 or 13 points. it's just not going to happen. but the fact is you pointed out a second ago, biden is over 50 in that state in this one poll that we see here. the fact you see biden over 50 in michigan. joe, you can explain to people why that matters. the race is going to tighten, right. and you assume that a fair amount of the gap between trump and biden is, in fact, going to be republicans who might in a tightening race go home to

donald trump. but if joe biden is over 50, doesn't matter because over 50, you're winning that state. so those are encouraging numbers for the biden campaign across the board. they're consistent with the pattern as i said we've seen now the past couple months. you know, arizona is a state that donald trump has never been ahead of in all of 22. continues to be the case. >> it's interesting. and you're right, you see a poll by joe biden ahead by 12 points in the state of florida. and i just find it hard to believe that even though that may be what people are telling pollsters in july, that's not how they're going to be voting. i'd be surprised, mika, if all of these races don't tighten up significantly toward the end. but, you know, arizona is a great example of the state where biden has stubbornly maintained a lead 4 points, five points, 6 points, 8 points. it reminds me of ohio in 2012 where barack obama just

consistently and steadily stayed ahead of romney 3 points, 4 points, five points throughout the entire -- through the entire race. so, again, that 50% is just a poll. we're only in -- we're only in july -- >> 100 days or less. >> yeah, 100 days. when people start, candidates start hitting that 50% threshold, you also see joe biden is favorable for clinton four years ago, this is baked in than what we saw four years ago. doesn't mean it's not going to tighten up. doesn't mean joe biden is going to win. just means the climb for the president's team much higher. >> look at this. the latest nbc news marist poll out of north carolina shows joe biden 7 points ahead of president trump. 51-44%. it comes as trump travels to the stated to to visit a facility

working to help create a coronavirus vaccine. let's hope he wears a mask. let's bring in national political reporter for nbc news josh livermore fretterman from north carolina. josh, what can we expect from the president with this trip, the polls surrounding him not in his direction? >> reporter: that's right, mika, the president heading here to visit a factory where they're starting to ramp up production of thor coronavirus vaccine. with his approval rating. it brings political head winds as well for republicans in the state as the state heads towards the critical senate race. one of the biggest pickup opportunities here in north

carolina. senator tom tillis down 9 points to his democratic challenger according to the nbc poll. another thing coming out of this poll, mika, a measure of political innovation for the state's democratic governor roy cooper, and that decision to stand of to the president on holding the convention here in north carolina by a 2-1 margin. north carolina voters say it was the right decision to prioritize health concerns over the president's desire to hold a convention here. now, of course, even his relocated convention in florida having to be scrapped as coronavirus cases surge in that state. the other big take away from our new poll this morning, mika, if you look at the three biggest issues in this election, the coronavirus, the economy and handling of race relations. vice-president biden continues to do far better than his competitor president trump. when it comes to coronavirus and

to race relations, but the president still enjoying a sizeable advantage over joe biden. when it comes to handling the economy, we're seeing that mirrored not only in north carolina, but in other swing states as well as some of the national polls we're seeing. it's an indication of why the president is so intent on focusing on the economic recovery in his messaging and another indication that how voters feel about the economy when it comes to october and november is going to be so critical to determining the outcome of this election. but particularly as more and more states have to roll back some of their reopening plans for their own economies in light of the surge in coronavirus cases. mika? >> nbc's josh livermoetterman, you very much. still on morning joe we'll go to the white house for the latest reporting on how the president's team is reacting to the newest numbers. the a.p.'s jonathan lemire joins us next. you're watching morning joe. we'll be right back. ♪

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xbrshgs. jonathan lemire we ask the question every week. ohio's tied, making matters worst. texas has become a battleground state. georgia has become a battleground state. the white house never expected arizona, six months ago, to become a battleground state. instead talking about winning new mexico and minnesota, which in a poll last week they were getting routed by double digits. so here we are. moving towards the end of july. early voting beginning. we're five weeks away, maybe in some places for early voting. what -- what's the white house thinking? what's the trump campaign thinking? how do they turn this around? >> joe, you and i have been beating a drum on early voting for a while now. those close to the president know that's an issue, too.

there are going to be people who are going to be voted in just five or six weeks and they're returning out of time for that moment to change momentum and the narrative of this race. as you say, they're playing defense. in a lot of places they didn't expect. texas, the president going there later this week, on wednesday, for a political event. fund-raising, kmim developme ec development. traveling to florida today. didn't have to teeplay as hard georgia, and florida. a private briefing for reporters and went through polls. acknowledgement the president is down but saying margins are ones they can overcome. as they want to do, they cast a lot of doubt on these public polls. they also think that there are a number of people who are going to back the president in november, who simply aren't being picked up on these polls because they're either perhaps not acknowledging they're going to vote for donald trump in a poll or simply not one whose are usually on the screens of

pollsters. i will say in 2016, there was element of truth to that. kept hearing the president say on and on, a silent majority. hidden voters. skepticism to that idea. but at these rallies, i covered more than a hundred that year. lots of people in the building to see the president who would tell me and other reporters, i haven't voted in 4, 8, 16 years. never talked to a pollster in my life, i'm going to vote for this guy. a risky bet to expect there's so many more of those people who will come out this time. which is why there is growing alarm by the lack of time and the need for, frankly, what we could call an october surprise and they're putting a lot of eggs in the basket, joe, on the vaccine and why the president is going to north carolina today. were you expect to see a lot of announcements and hype about each incremental step in the development form of a vaccine, of course, will be great for everyone, but the president believes it's the key now to his global future. if they can say before november,

say a vaccine has been developed or even close. even if it can't be distributed yet, give the idea of hope that they think could be powerful and could change, late in the game, change momentum which right now is all working against him. >> so, reverend al, arizona, biden plus five, michigan plus six. plus nine, plus 12, depending on the poll. ohio, tied, florida, plus five, north carolina. plus seven in a lot of those states it will be hispanics and it will be black americans who determine whether donald trump gets re-elected or not. of course, four years ago, black turnout at a 20-year low. a lot of hispanics in florida didn't line up and vote the way that democrats and the clinton campaign expected them to vote. how are things looking in 2020 for the biden campaign? are you concerned about minority outreach?

do you think they are reaching out to black voters and energizing black voters the way they need? are there concerns about his outreach among hispanic voters? i saw a "miami herald" article suggesting they're outreach to hispanic voters in the state of florida, not as good as they would like. what are you hearing on the ground? >> i'm hearing on the ground, it's better than '16 but still has a distance to go. there needs to be more direct outreach, and there needs to be more emphasis on policies both in the black and brown communities. i think the article you referred to, i read that as well, talks about in florida, particularly, there's a problem with the latino voters in terms of some on the ground organizing and outreach. now, given the pandemic, it becomes even more challenging, but you need to put effort over the challenge, and clearly in the plaque community, if you had

had more outreach in '16, i think that michigan as well as pennsylvania probably wisconsin could have been a different story. what i hope does not happen is that the biden campaign becomes intoxicated with the polls, which are at this point much better than they were 100 days out for clinton and trump. in fact, they were tied in some states only one-point difference in others 100 days out. it's much different now, but if they are enticed by the polls, i think it would be to their detriment. the other thing, let's not forget, that could be a very big enthusiastic reaction or it could be be less of reaction, who he chooses as a running mate and whether or not that running mate energizes in the black and brown community. whether they be black or not. i said i'd like to see a black woman, but i think some others can even energize. a running mate could be something that either

accelerates or deflates where biden is in the black and brown communities in terms of turnout. >> yeah. >> and let me ask you on the other side. the trump campaign has said for the past three, three and a half years they're going to get 15%, 20% of the black vote. certainly i've heard that from several people inside the trump campaign. i know jonathan has as well. over the past several years. is there any chance that the trump campaign, given the events of the last six months, given his racially sensed rhetoric, givened things tom cotton has been saying, given the sort of things devin nunes is staying, the democratic party hates white people is there that chance that donald trump could outperform past republicans in the black community? >> i think donald trump, you and i have known, joe, throughout the years that he wants to be a winner. i think he will win.

he will be the republican that gets the least amount of votes for president in the history of the united states. i think he will be the rock-bottom vote getter among blacks in republican party history. no one has, in my view -- and i'm not talking just from my position, but in people that i talk to underground, in the churches. just people stopping me in the street all over the country as i travel, no one has, in my opinion, has an energized such emotion and passion that people are willing to go out and vote and do whatever they have to do to vote against him. i think the biggest weapon for joe biden in terms of energizing black turnout and brown turnout is donald trump. he has worked hard at it and he will earn what he gets election day. coming up, we're joined by new york's former police commissioner. bill bratton, as protests take a violent turn in cities from

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i remember the day when john left home.

mother told him not to get in trouble. not to get in the way, and we were tickled. but we all know that john got in trouble. got in the way, but it was a good trouble. john was different from the rest of the family, and he would have thoughts that all of the troubles he got himself into would change the world. i am so honored that john was my brother, and he will live forever in all of our hearts. >> hmm. that was the brother of john lewis eulogizing the late congressman over the weekend. 55 years after the civil rights icon nearly died from police brutality, when crossing the edmund pettus bridge during a peaceful march, members of the u.s. military placed lewis' body into a horse-drawn wagon as crowds lined up for about half a mile and all watched as he crossed the bridge one more

time. hours later, lewis arrived to lie in state in alabama's capitol in montana where mourners lined up around the block to pay respects. meanwhile, as calls grow to rename the edmund pettus bridge at lewis, the fairfax county virginia school board unanimously voted last week to rename its robert e. lee high school after the late congressman. and in the house, congressman jim clyburn is offering legislation today to rename the voting rights bill hr-4 after lewis. the name change is expected to pass by unanimous consent. remembrances for lewis shift to washington, d.c. today with a special ceremony in the row tunneled row-of-rrow-of

rotunda of the u.s. capitol. he will lie in state on the east front steps of the capitol today and tomorrow. reverend al sharpton and mike barnicle are with us and back with us a widow of another giant of the congress we recently lost and miss so much. maya rockeymoore cummings who late husband elijah cummings passed away earlier this year. you actually wrote a piece about your husband and the late congressman and why it's kind of okay that people mix that up and there are incredible parallels between the two men. >> absolutely. good morning, mika. i just want to say to the family of john lewis that we lost, of course, a great statesman, a great patriot, and i think yesterday's remembrances of him especially crossing the edmund pettus bridge, is symbolic of him actually serving as a bridge to the 21st century and carrying the civil rights movement forward so that a new generation

can take up the torch. so with that, you know, elijah, of course, and congressman lewis served together in the u.s. congress. and they had a lot of similarities. i mean, they were both sons of the jim crow south. they both had their challenges and their strife with the jim crow system. both of them were hit, beaten in their civil rights protests as young people. both of them, of course, were sons of sharecroppers and both of them were passionate about civil and human rights and fought for voting rights and a democracy that worked for all. so with that, you know i just wanted to also point out that they were often mistaken for each other, and there were consequences to that. they considered themselves brothers from another mother. >> i love it! >> reverend al, as we look at the images of john lewis crossing the edmund pettus bridge one last time, i'm curious.

what are your thoughts about that great civil rights hero? that just remarkable american angel as our american saint, as jon meacham calls him? >> as i watched them bring his casket across the bridge, you know, i was there in march with the annual crossing of the bridge. every year people go and i've gone for the last 12, 15 years, to commemorate bloody sunday, marching across the bridge with john lewis, and we marched this past march because we knew he was suffering from pancreatic cancer. i was surprised when we got to the top of the bridge a cop pulled up, he surprised us as came and we had a little, held him up. i was one of those that was helped to hold him up, and so i was honored that i was there

with him the last time he was on that bridge alive, and i watched it as that casket brought him over the bridge yesterday. people need to remember, he was beaten on that bridge not because he was john lewis. he and jose williams and ms. boynton, they were beaten and teargasseded with others, because jimmy lee jackson had been killed. they came in to have a voter rights movement. reverend james orange was put in jail for having that movement. they came to protest that, to defend people's right to vote. that's why there are those in the congress now saying that this new voting rights act should be named after john lewis, because they were there for a voting rights plan. not just to be a man. and i think that really, i don't want people to miss at this moment, and i think maya cummings referred to it. both he and elijah cummings were winners in their generation.

they were older than me by 12, 15 years. they came at a time when it was improbable that they could end up doing what they did. and to think that john lewis went from where he started as a sharecropper's son in alabama to helping to elect the first black president, to think elijah cummings set the whole tone of what we're now dealing with in john bolton's book and other things as he shared that committee, they were victors. it's a challenge to those of us to come behind them and those behind us whether we can win in our generation, but john lewis went across that bridge a victor yesterday, because the same troopers that beat him were saluting him and the same state that rejected him was laying him in state. they won their round in the fight. we've got to prove we can win ours. >> maya, mike barnicle is with

us and has a question for you. mike? >> yeah. it's noorimportant that we talk about these two men today, your husband and john lewis. yesterday as i was watching the casket being brought across the edmund pettus bridge in selma, alabama, it struck me as sort of a metaphor for the country, that john lewis and your husband, they crossed that bridge basically because of their efforts at reconciliation and they were successful in their lives and they continue to be successful in their deaths, in their passing, but today in my view and i think perhaps the view of a lot of people, america has not yet crossed that bridge completely, because there's an obstruction at the end of that bridge. and it's an obstruction set in place by the president of the united states. and i was wondering what you were thinking when you watched john lewis' casket cross that bridge? >> i was thinking about the

protesters that continue to be in the streets across this country. protesting black lives matter. remember, that the last public photo that we have of john lewis was him standing in black lives matter plaza in washington, d.c. not too far from the white house. i think that donald trump is channeling his inner george wallace. he is standing at the end of that bridge just like with a storm chompers as i call them, with the troopers just like john lewis faced all of those years ago, and the protesters today continue to face the -- the peaceful protesters -- continue to face. and we have a choice as a country. will we hold on to the gains and fight for the gains of the civil rights movement and build on them for a 21st century that embraces diversity, inclusion, equity and justice for all? or will we allow ourselves to be sidetracked by people like donald trump and those who sympathize with him who pine for a quote/unquote lost way of life

that oppressed so many millions of americans? i think that as elijah used to say, we're better than that. as john lewis used to say, this is worth the good trouble. i'm here to say that it is time to pass the restoration of the voting rights act. it is time for us to move forward into a truly 21st century that is inclusive of all, and i think that the life of john lewis certainly my late husband elijah cummings were testament to that fight. >> absolutely. maya rockeymoore cummings, thank you very much for being on the show this morning. we really appreciate it. and up next, a comprehensive look at this pivotal moment in american history. an election year where the health of this nation hangs in the balance. keep it right here on "morning joe." > keep it right "morning joe." my life.

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welcome back to "morning joe." protests over racial justice turned violent over the weekend. fueled in large part by the anger over federal forces being deployed to portland. thousands protested across the country with riots being declared in both seattle and portland on saturday. it comes amid calls to reform police and to significantly increase of the crime in major cities. joining us, ceo for center of policing equity and a professor of african-american studies and psychology at yale university, phillip ateeba goff. former police commissioner for new york city, bill bratton. msnbc news contributor and conservative radio host charlie sykes and little analyst for nbc news and msnbc maya wiley. good to have you all onboard with us. >> commissioner, talk about a few things. the violence going on in seattle

and oakland and portland, but first let's talk about the federal forces that donald trump and bill barr took out to portland, and you saw the images of unidentified officers grabbing people, throwing them into unmarked cars and taking them away. often without probable cause. let's start right there. what's your reaction to what you have seen from the government's side? from the trump administration's side? >> a great deal of concern among my law enforcement colleagues both in the federal and government and municipal, state police forces about this issue. this is an historic use of federal police forces in this capacity, and is of great concern. clearly the public as evidenced

by the demonstrations and growing demonstrations around the country have a great deal of concern and they should, because of great belief this may be an inappropriate use of those forces. this type of function has traditionally been the law of local police. whether municipal or state police forces and it does not seem to be, there doesn't seem to be a great deal of coordination between state and local forces trying to protect these buildingsthat is of great, great concern. >> we saw some violence in the protests after george floyd's death. saw some looting, some vandalism. and it was -- it was many of it by outside agitators. certainly the shooting and the killing of a federal officer in oakland. it was by an outside agitator. i'm curious, mr. commissioner, what needs to be done to

de-escalate the crisis right now in portland? the one that's growing in seattle, and oakland and in other parts of the country? because we actually had a more turbulent early stage. things calmed down, and now it's re-ignited again in portland. >> well, i think the genie is out of the bottle, joe, and i think on both the republican and democratic side there needs to be great concern about getting through the summer and up to the election that it's quite clear that moving these special forces into cities and escalation, if there be more assignments is going to increase the violence. because it's quite obvious there are those in these demonstrations not to support black lives matter but the causes that have been bringing out the large crowds, but bringing out their own intentions. i feel even after the election, no matter the outcome,

republicans going back in or democrats coming in, those forces invigorated a quite clearly done poorly and growing demonstrations around the country, many of them violent, i'm not sure that after the election that things will calm down. i think there are forces here being energized by this, and the shame of it, it's taking away from the legitimacy of the initial reason for these demonstrations. police reform. it has become very, very chaotic and in my 50 years associated with policing going back to when i used to stand outside those federal buildings in boston during the anti-war demonstrations, i've never seen a time like this and never been as concerned as i am at this particular minute to our history. >> hmm. very strong words. maya, the, head of the naacp in

portland talked about the violence as a distraction. what are your thoughts as you see an overreach, gross overreach by the federal government's police powers, and also what we're seeing played out in the street every night. this at naacp in portland this "spectacle" that seems to be growing by the night? >> well, bill is absolutely right, that this is a very scary time and it's unprecedented, because what we're seeing is federal agents instigating more violence. i say "instigating" because in many instances we're seeing video where the aggressive level of law enforcement, which i would not call law enforcement. i call it instigation is ratcheting up the violence. it's actually a cause. we even see this in local policing sometimes. where the way that police respond to anger and to

demonstration, even when it's peaceful, provokes the violence itself. and that is something to be concerned about when we're seeing federal agents on the ground who are actually not even trained to do the thing that they're being told to do. they are not trained. even when we have training we have problems, but that tells me, is it a distraction? absolutely. the place to look is the distraction that's created by essentially violating some of the most basic norms of our constitution by taking local law enforcement away from local law enforcement. >> so phillip, the marches over the past several months, most of the peaceful marches, but, again, there was violence in the early marches. there have been, there's been violence in portland and other west coast cities of late. but it was about police reform. and after george floyd's death,

after the killing of george floyd, you, this morning, are announcing a new initiative regarding police reform. what can you tell us? >> yeah, joe. so since minneapolis announced they were going to be disbanding their police department, we've gotten literally thousands of calls from the police chiefs we work with to cities that are concerned, activists that are concerned saying, hey, what we really need an imprint or public safety but keshed about violence and whats if we do the right thing and i'm glad that we're talking about this, because -- >> oop, lost -- >> there's been too much distraction. >> we're having somebody trouble with phillip's feed right now and we'll get back to him in a minute. charlie sykes, you wrote a powerful column talking about the problem regarding police

reform where police unions -- explain that to our viewers? >> well, if you're going to be serious about police reform making officers more accountable, getting disciplinary procedures online again, you've got to deal with the excessive power of the police unions. look, it's interesting the republicans and conservatives have no problem criticizing other unions. including teachers unions but when it comes to police unions there's been kind of a, well, let's turn a blind eye, when scott walker here in wisconsin pushed through his collective bargaining legislation, he exempted the police unions. look, the problem is, in some cities the unions negotiated contracts that insulate officers from accountability. there's a role for the unions, but i think that you need to get your hands around this particular issue, and i think this is part of the problem of the distraction. it's like, this is a moment where we need to seriously talk about what will it take to reform policing?

it's not just going to -- it's not going to happen by pulling down statues and certainly not going to happen by some of the scenes we're seeing in some of these cities, but it does need to have the serious moment where democrats and republicans say, okay. is there something we can can do to rebalance the power in the police department. by the way, i just have to say that i think it's important to hold in your mind two ideas that this is an extreme overreach by the federal government when it comes to what's going on in portland, but also that the violence is counterproductive way more than a distraction. this is exactly what donald trump wants. what the protest -- what the violent protesters are doing is providing donald trump the viral content that he is counting on to revive his presidential campaign. i just want to lay that out there that there should be no hesitancy in condemning the violence. and that, by the way, is not contradictory to also condemning what's going on with the federal agents. that's the way most people look

at this. yes, peaceful protests. no, violence. and i think there ought to be clarity about that. >> and actually charlie, that's what psychiatrists would call dialectical thinking. you can hold two opinions in your minds that seem contradictory but are not contradictory and you can -- >> not on twitter. >> exactly. and not in a lot of political space, but you can be horrified by the overreach of donald trump and the federal forces in portland and also be horrified that he's using this as a dress rehearsal for more widespread unrest coming up this fall as we move closer to the election. at the same time, you can be deeply disturbed by the wanton violence, the burning of courthouses, breaking of windows

and the other things that are distractions from the larger cause. philip, we're going to try you again. you can talk about dialectical thinking, you can talk about portland or talk about your reforms. i think i know which direction you want to go. go ahead. >> i'm going to take option "d" which is all three. so this idea that you can do two things at the same time, that's exactly what i'm hearing from activists from law enforcement, from concerned mayors. this idea that, look, the way we've been doing public safety hasn't been working. and at the same time, we've got to do any kind of reforms responsibly. so we can't just slash budgets willy nilly because there's real threat of violence. law enforcement gets trained to protect us. violence in streets. but they can't protect us from the violence of poverty. what we put together in response to our partners is a road map. a policingequity.org/road map.

and it's common steps for those who want to be different after this moment without risking violence. that's figuring out what law enforcement should and shouldn't be doing. that's figuring out how you want to deploy law enforcement resources as opposed to other public goods like mental health and substance abuse resources. this idea that there's two different lines here, that there's two different sides, that itself say distraction. chiefs, protesters, regular citizens all agree there's a common sense path forward but we should focus more on than than the people who profit off the distraction and the division. >> and all the people said, amen. breaking news just talking about the time that we are in. google has just announced breaking news from "the wall street journal" that -- well, google hasn't announced but somebody familiar with google thinks they're going to be keeping their employees home

until next july. next july. mike barnicle has the next question. mike? >> wow, that's a big story right there. the google operation. holding off until july. but in keeping with the two thoughts at the same time. the first thought is maya wiley pointed out something that should be pointed out continually. that the forces on the ground in portland are not police officers. it's a federal s.w.a.t. team made up of tsa agents, customs agents and things like that. so they are totally inexperienced in crowd control, i would think. but bill bratton, you mentioned earlier in your comments, in your response to joe's question, that there are forces within the crowds, the protesters, that are energized by this. now i know that new york city police department has one of the finest intelligence units of any police department in the world. and i'm sure that you speak to

these people often, on and off. what do you mean by energized by it, and who are these forces that you're specifically talking about? >> well, there's almost a pattern, michael, to these events. portland, night after night, it starts out with very large peaceful demonstrations with the mothers, with the veterans. but something happens in those events. and it's not been reported with any great accuracy that i can see where some in that group then begin vandalizing, throwing of the firebombs, the cherry bombs, the firecrackers if you will. that then initiates the response from the federal agents who are there. and it escalates. so the idea is that there are persons within these groups, whether they are organized or individual, that night after night basically spark the violence that we see. new york city had a very bad weekend this weekend after really a significant decrease in

violent crime. it had been peaceful demonstrations. this past weekend that changed once again. vandalism, setting of fires. so there is something going on in terms of my colleagues in policing. haven't quite got their thumb on it yet as to the obvious behind the scenes group or individuals. it's not just the left. it's not just the right. we saw the dueling demonstrators in louisville, i think it was, with 300 members heavily armed from a black group that showed up to counter a demonstration by 50 heavily armed white militia types. that's the escalation i'm concerned with. we still don't have our arms around what is happening. it's escalating. it's not de-escalating. what i worry about the idea this is not going to end on the november elections. no matter who is president, we

have a country that is basically divided against itself in so many ways and the reforms the gentleman talked about before, american police chiefs are embracing the idea of reforms. and what i worry about is what i describe as the etch-a-sketch moment. we don't give enough credit for what's been tried and didn't necessarily have a chance to grow. but we can find common ground here. we must find common ground and a lot of people want to get on that xhcommon ground but there'a lot of others on the periphery that just want to tear it apart. >> commissioner bill bratton, thank you. maya wiley, reverend al is with us. i want to throw to him to ask you a question right now. reverend al? >> maya, as we battle this police reform, the george floyd bill pending now, really sitting on speaker mcconnell's desk, already passed by the house, many of us trying to pressure mcconnell to move forward, is it

your fear that the activities will take away from legislative change and will affect juries in the trials of those police officers that have been charged in the death of george floyd and the civilians charged in the death of arbery? because at the end of the day, we have real trials and real legislation pending and strategies ought to have that in mind. >> we must have the reforms that are in that package, and we can't let the politics of division prevent the kind of reform that ensures justice. and i want to take that back to something that phil said early cher was, you know, what we're doing right now is we're policing poverty rather than problem solving it. and the next piece that has to happen, we have to have that accountability because without it, we will not have trust from the community. and that includes racial

profiling. so when i say we are policing poverty, that's part of what racial profiling represents. and here in new york city, you know, we have a police commissioner who is talking about bail reform, criminal justice reform as the problem when the reality is he's not talki ining about 2,500 more st and frisks that happened in black and brown communities last week, an uptick after the city had been working so hard to institute reforms. so we also have to figure out how we're investing in crisis mana management in our communities. i know you're going to do an important and a tragic funeral for a 1-year-old who was shot in bedsty. i went to the viewing yesterday. all i could think about was the guns that are on the streets that are not being removed is a problem solving approach rather than thinking -- and it's easier to get a gun than a job when you're in brownsville brooklyn

or south bronx or in any poor black and latino community in the country. and those are the statistics that we know are what contributes to the shootings we see so we need that reform and we need to problem solve poverty. >> maya wiley, charlie sykes, charlie atiba goff. sdhthat does it for us this morning. stephanie ruhle picks up the coverage right now. >> thanks, mika. hi there. i'm stephanie ruhle. it's monday, july 27th. here are the important facts at this hour. this morning, the world health organization called the coronavirus outbreak the most severe public health emergency in its history. as cases across the world passed 16 million. a quarter of those cases came from the united states with roughly 200,000 added in just the last three days. more than 147,000 americans have lost their