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it is "meet the press daily." i'm chuck todd. the headlines would be rightly characterized as absurd if they weren't also tragic because this is no way to govern wrrp amid a raging pandemic, as tens of millions are out of work or fear being put out of work, the president is defending the inaccurate and darnls and conspiratorial claims of a random doctor he found on twitter. he acnaunls he knows nothing about his doctor, but she caught his attention by claiming hyd x hydroxy chloroquine can prevent and cure covid. the fda begs to differ. more than 150,000 people have died in the united states of this disease, there is no cure available, yet what the public is witnessing is a proxy battle pitting the top infectious disease expert against the

musing of a random doctor elevated by the president. >> the was a woman who was spectacular in her statements about it. that she's had tremendous success with it. she said that she's had tremendous success with hundreds of different patients. and i thought her voice was an important voice, but i know nothing about her. >> the overwhelming prevailing clinical trials that have looked at the efficacy of hydroxychloroquine have indicated that it is not effective in coronavirus disease. >> i was very impressed with her and other doctors that stood with her. i think she made sense, but i know nothing about it, i just saw her making a statement with very respected doctors. she was not alone. >> all of those trials show consistently that hydroxychloroquine is not effective in the treatment of coronavirus disease or covid-19. >> dr. fauci also today warned that, quote, we have no way of knowing where we are in this

pandemic, and health experts are warning states to take additional action. a senior administration official has confirmed to nbc news, the authenticity of this task force report urging 21 red zone states to impose more restrictions. as the president spreads these conspiracy theories, downplaying the severity of the virus, he's arguably left republicans oin capitol hill in a state of confusion and disarray as congress tries to pass another emergency relief bill. there aren't two sides in these negotiations. there's an awkward three sides, but the package republicans finally cobbled together with the white house is being blasted by some of their own rank and file, and it was also undermined by the president because he didn't seem to fully grasp what was actually in the agreement. and only adding to the mess on capitol hill is the fallout from republican congressman louie gohmert disclosing he's testified positive for the virus, twice, mind you, as he was about to travel with the president from texas. if you have followed him, he

hasn't embraced all the recommended safety guidelines on capitol hill. joining me now from the white house is my nbc news colleague shannon pettypiece, also anna palmer, who covers capitol hill, morgan chesky in midland, texas, where the president is. we just heard from him. and i have dr. kavita patel, nbc news medical contributor and former adviser to the obama white house. shannon, let me start with you and the president now in his second day of defending a doctor he knew nothing about but thought she said some interesting things. what -- is there -- i think we talked about this earlier. are people in the white house throwing up their hands? i mean, in some ways, this is not shocking behavior by the president. he does this all the time. i mean, you know, the first interview i did with him, he said he gets his military advice from watching the shows. so now we're finding out he might get medical advice from watching something. is there any remorse from the

white house about how damaging this is? >> i mean, they continue trying to push this message, a real urgent message to get people to follow these basic health guidelines that they have been promoting for months now. inside the white house, from top advisers on down, there is an acknowledgment that the only way we're going to get baseball and schools and bars back is if we bring down the number of infections to basically a rounding error and put in some contact tracing and some really good testing. the way to get out of that, the most effective tool they have right now, is social distancing and masks. so there's a real emphasis, i'm told, to try and get that message out to people in these states. you raise an interesting -- you used the word govern in your introduction, chuck, and i think it is interesting when you look at what the president does might not be that effective in governing when you talk about defending this video and retweeting this controversial video. but it is effective in winning a culture war.

and there is a distinction here that is emerging between governing and a culture war, and so many people outside the white house who like seeing the president defending hydroxychloroquine and pushing back against the media and the left democrat and this narrative that they say is out there against hydroxychloroquine. they are in it because they like the culture war fight. and when the president does stuff like this, they like to see him as their culture war, you know, leader. as far as governing, though, inside the white house, not effective, and yes, there is a lot of sighing and head shaking going on. >> well, by the way, it's not a tearative on hydrohydroxychloro, it's his own fda, the scientific community, the medical community, so it's really -- anna palmer, you guys, i'll give you this. it was an epic lead in the playbook today, and in some ways, it sort of was a reminder of like we're so used to the

wash, rinse, repeat of the absurdity of how congress negotiates not over the last decade that we are sometimes numb to the games playing, but how extra crazy is this? >> yeah, i think what we tried to really lay out is kind of all of this back and forth negotiating and people saying things but kind of behind the scenes things moving. i do think things have broken down. mark meadows just left nancy pelosi's office saying that even a short-term deal is a no go right now. i think the real problem for republicans and the white house is that they still aren't on the same page. you know, you had a lot of senate republicans still concerned about the price tag of the overall bill, which is kind of funny. actually, republicans getting back to the principles of not wanting to spend a lot of government money right, and at the same time, you have nancy pelosi who believes she's in a strong position because republicans are in disarray, they're going to need house

democrats, they're trying to push the administration as far as possible. right now, it does appear that unemployment benefits are going to expire on friday. you know, of course, and i always say this with this caveat because i covered congress for a long time. being it's still only wednesday, 5:00, those benefits don't expire until friday, so that's a long time in congressional terms, but it just shows you kind of how dysfunctional and really this kind of overwhelming sense on capitol hill right now of frustration around masks and the fact that louie gohmert tested positive, i was getting emails from members of congress really saying they're just pissed off, they don't understand, they cant even -- this is going to become the next superspreader. you have this kind of tenseness really underlying the overall negotiations as well. >> you brought up the gohmert thing. you guys reported on the louie gohmert positive test, and it seems as if his office, your partner in crime, jake sherman, got -- walk us through that. it seems as if his office is in

an i told you so moment themselves, a little bit of a revolt on their boss, congressman gohmert? >> yeah, you rarely see these behind the scenes staffer fights with their bosses come out in public, and what happened today is, jake sherman, who i write playbook with, we reported on louie gohmert testing positive, and we had a hard time getting in touch with this chief of staff, with others, to talk about what was happening, and frustrated staff members emailed jake and said, listen, i hope when you report this, that you also report that mr. gohmert has made all of us, including three interns, come into the office every single day, and that when people who do wear masks, they are often looked down upon or told not to. so you kind of just see this culture war that shannon was talking about playing out in real time in a congressional office, and i think there's just a lot of frustration because, as you know and a lot of people know, each member of congress

operates their own staff and hires them and fires them, and there's really not a centralized notion in terms of this is what happens, here's the requirements. every office has its own thing. so you have members of congress who aren't following guidelines, the pressure comes down on staffers who are sometimes 23, you know, they're interns, and it really came out in public today. and i think we wanted to make sure that we put that in there just to show what is actually happening on capitol hill. >> these are real people. quickly, what does mitch mcconnell do when you've got ben sasse in your senate republican conference saying the big democrat steve mnuchin, there shouldn't be more money, and marco rubio saying it's a lot of money, but the damage to the economy might be worth it, i mean, can he put a bill on the floor that has half of the conference against it? >> i don't think right now in the way that the contours of the

bill are right now. what you're really seeing, and it's even members in leadership, john cornyn and others saying they're nowhere. it's frustration around the size of the bill, and also real frustration around some of the extraneous things that aren't coronavirus related that this white house wanted kind of famously at this point, the $1.5 billion for the fbi headquarters. and so i think there's some -- an attempt to rein them in. right now, as off, mitch mcconnell plays this game better than anyone. he's really taken a step back. he said this is more of a discussion between the white house and house democrats. and he's really letting them do that now, of course, i believe at the end of the day, mitch mcconnell will come in as he often does at the end and try to cobble together some kind of a deal. >> he needs the numbers, and right now, he may be lacking in numbers there. let me go down to texas where morgan chesky is following the president. you know, morgan, if i said during the pandemic that the president was going to texas, one would assume, well, he must

be checking in. texas is a hot spot. how are they doing? but this is not a coronavirus trip. tell us what this trip is about, morgan. >> yeah, chuck, not officially a coronavirus trip. the president did acknowledge it briefly during remarks he made to a tour, to a tour do an oil rig site he made a short time ago, but really the purpose of the trip to west texas was for the peds to try to get fresh funding into the campaign. we do know that an event that was held in odessa, texas, which is just down the road from us, was hopefully raising about $7 million. the local nbc affiliate reporting it was a $280,000 a plate dinner. you could have your picture taken with the president for $20,000 buy-in picture, a picture for $50,000, and you could sit at his table for a cool half million dollars. we know right now, chuck, really, the president is trying

to essentially come here and give these people a bit of hope. it's been a tough go for the oil and gas industry here in texas now for some time. and so the purpose was to try to get some new funding into that campaign but also after such a rough past few month with the crash of the oil market, the president was trying to give some encouraging words to them as well. chuck. >> what kind of campaign message did he have? i mean, it did seem as if, did he veer? how much did he veer into that world, and how much did he try to keep it about the oil and gas industry? >> the majority of the speech was really about the energy sector and bringing it back to life here in texas. if you go back a year age, this was really the life blood of the oil and gas industry. 1 in every 3 barrels coming out of the united states came from right here in the permian basin, so the president was trying to give some encouraging words, saying that he was going to pass several measures that would

incentivize private investments, that would allow export easier with mexico, and that's really reassureing for the folks who live here, because unemployment has spiked from about 2% in odessa, texas, up to 13% right now. that's the highest in the state. and that really was the focus of the president's remarks, chuck, whenever he wasn't talking in a fund-raising kind of campaign mode. >> gotcha. morgan chesky on the ground with us with those working rigs these days. we have been having a glut lately. we shall see. dr. patel, i want to close with you and sort of, we have lamented about political leaders and contradicting public health guidance. i guess, is louie gohmert now sort of example "a" for you even though right now i gotta play for you this sound bite, you won't believe it when you hear it. i want to play it for you

because i want you to react to it. here's what congressman gohmert said, how he thinks he contracted the virus. >> i can't help but wonder if by keeping a mask on and keeping it in place that if i might have put some germs, some of the virus onto the mask and breathed it in. i don't know. but i got it. we'll see what happens from here. >> dr. patel, your reaction. >> where to begin, chuck. first, i hope he does not suffer the consequences that so many americans and people worldwide have suffered, and we're learning more and more about even people who are asymptomatic, chuck, and the long-term effects they have, even though long term is months, but could be years. i would say to representative gome rhmer gohmert, it's not exhibit "a." it's a through z because it's just another notch in this confusion and misinformation, and to kind of comment that

potentially mask wearing is actually promoting the virus just goes counter not only to the evidence but by kind of lighting that fuse, it just promotes some of the thinking that's already existed around a mask being political, a mask not being effective, and we are beyond that. i mean, you have heard many of my own colleagues call for a national mask mandate. we're not going to get that, but when you see states, including many red states now, chuck, who have clearly gone to a mandate indoors and effectively outdoors, that should tell you something. and doing this at this hour, you know, it's destructive. >> i want to ask you, in fact, there's a report out today of some, and this is early studies, but that covid patients that survive are reporting some heart-related problems. what can you tell us about this

study and what should we take away from it? >> yeah, the principle takeaway is that we now know that coronavirus for both patients who are hospitalized as well as even for those that are not, has some pretty serious effects. and in this study, 100 patients in germany, almost two thirds of them, chuck, had enzyme levels in their body as well as radio graphic or x-ray changes to their heart muscle that look almost like a heart attack. so to make that just even more profound, some of these were people who were not very sick and did not have a lot of comorbid or chronic conditions. by the way, that just re-enforces studies that have been done in the united states of people who were not hospitalized who weeks later over two thirds of them had fatigue and reported other symptoms. so i would just say a takeaway is, you know, we have been debating about one doctor who's talking about hydroxychloroquine. the takeaway, hydroxychloroquine

is not useful. we have some progress on treatments, but the best thing you can do is prevent even being in a position where you have to talk about the effects of coronavirus and that does come from masks, distancing, and hand hygiene, and a lot of the things we talked about already. >> given everything we now know and now the fear that even a mild case of this virus could lead to long-term health impacts, would you be recommending a shelter in place in these hot spots at this point? >> i think it's got to be considered. yes. now, i say that knowing the serious gravity with which the implications of that on working families, et cetera. but chuck, we got here because we're not taking it seriously. we had no national strategy, as you pointed out, and on top of that, we are never going to do any sort of economic recovery if people just don't feel safe. so i do think it has to be considered. but again, it would be also really nice, chuck, we keep talking about testing, when i

talk to you, it would be nice if some of us could get our tests back as quickly as representative gohmert did. at this point, i would be willing to take a day or two, but it's hard to see how you get ahead of this without putting into place that type of infrastructure. >> yeah. can't get april back. that's the big thing. the time machine is i guess what we're missing at this point. shannon, anna, morgan, and dr. patel, thank you all for getting us started. up ahead, the coronavirus crisis is growing everywhere, including the state of kentucky. cases and deaths are up. but testing is going down. i'm going to ask the governor what he plans to do about that, and the scramble to strike a new deal for coronavirus relief. i'll talk with a top senate democrat about what he knows about the negotiations. ta-da!

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when the southern states that have already been hit, the florida, texas, arizona,

southern california, when you look back on, you saw an increase in the percent positives of the tests that were done. that's a surefire indication that you are in a process where you're heading towards a resurgence. we're starting to see that in some of the states now. kentucky, tennessee, ohio. >> welcome back. that was dr. anthony fauci with our own andrea mitchell after "the new york times" reported the task force found the situation in 21 states is serious enough to place them in the red zone. while kentucky was not in that list, cases are up there in the last two weeks. the fourths highest increase in any state at that time. deaths are also up. joining me now is the governor of kentucky, democrat andy beshe beshear. you heard dr. fauci name check your state. basically, it sounded like there's a fear you're not in the red zone yet, but you could be. tell me the situation as you see it right now, sir.

>> well, we're in a very dangerous position in kentucky. where we had had a very good control to the degree we can have good control of this virus. we had had a real success in dealing with covid-19, of people coming together, doing the right thing, of not just flattening but crushing our curve. but what we have seen, and in different pieces since maybe the beginning of may, is a steady increase in cases, and those cases have really started escalating the last four weeks. and so i think it's fair to say that we're at a point in time that probably florida or california or texas found them in weeks if not months ago or maybe a state like oklahoma, which seems to be suffering, found themselves in weeks ago. but i think what will be the difference here in kentucky is we're taking aggressive action right now. i want to do everything i can to make sure we do not face the

same devastation as states to our south. my heart goes out to them, but i do want to make sure we don't go through the same thing. >> governor, i'll be honest with you. in almost every example i have seen across the country, in every state, no matter, it does feel as if whatever decision you end up making, you wish you would have made it a week earlier. are you at all concerned you're not, you know, issuing a shelter-in-place order now at least for jefferson county, or are you concerned you're going to be a week late no matter how aggressive you believe you're being? >> many times because of when the results come in, you're almost always chasing this virus by about two weeks. but here in kentucky, we have already had our mandatory facial covering, mandatory mask order in place for two weeks. we have already limited our social gatherings back down to ten, reduced them. we just a couple days ago closed our bars and reduced our restaurant capacity. so i believe we are in front of

what the national experts are suggesting. i feel like we're moving faster in that than many other states, but there's always a chance to look back and wonder what if, but i believe we're being more aggressive than most. our goal is to stabilize and decrease our cases while trying to keep our economy as open as we can. >> is your testing situation a deal where you feel like you're maximizing the tests that you can process? or do you need more testing and more processing capability? do you need both? >> having been a new governor when all of this started, watching us deal with the virus that didn't even exist, basically until two weeks after i became governor, to creating a test, to getting it out there, i have lived all this in real time. right now, kentucky's fortunate to have about four private labs in this state that developed the

ability to test for this and continue to increase their capacity. we currently face a couple challenges. number one is reagents. many of our larger hospital systems in kentucky and our universities are having real difficulty getting it. and that means we could administer tests, we could have enough swabs, but the processing becomes difficult. the second piece is outside of some major metropolitan areas, we may have people who don't want to get tested or are a little hesitant to get tested. we need to make sure that everybody knows that defeating this virus is our patriotic duty, that we're all in this together as americans. we're not democrats or republicans. we're americans versus the coronavirus. or we're citizens of this world versus this virus. and so those are our major challenges. last couple days, we had more than 10,000 results each day, and for us, that puts us in a path to where we can at least know what we're facing. but i will take more testing

every single day. let me just say we can't test, we can't contact trace our way out of this virus. we have to do what it takes to prevent the virus. we have to be willing to change our lifestyle in a way that protects the people around us and understand that even if we don't agree with every rule put into place, we have everyone else's lives in our hands at every moment. it's a test of our humanity. when we do things we might not even like if it protects the life, the job, or the education of someone else around us. >> your fiscal situation and the amount of money you had to spend in dealing with this virus, do you expect the federal government -- do you expect federal government aid? if you do, what's the conversation like with one of your constituents named mitch mcconnell? >> every governor of every state and every local mayor or county judge desperately needs fiscal

stabilization funds to be included in the next round of c.a.r.e.s. act or if this is the heals act or if it's the heroes act. >> whatever name. >> we'll say that we need two things. number one, we ned to continue the unemployment as it has been the last several months, and number two, we need state stabilization funds. in kentucky, we face a $1.1 billion shortfall in our next fiscal budget, which will cause us the largest cuts in our history. so i have communicated that to senator mcconnell. i know every governor out there is pushing for this to be included. it's something where if we want our economy to rebound, which i would hope everybody wants it to, it simply must be included. >> all right. what has he said? he doesn't seem to be very publicly in favor of this. do you feel like he'll move on this? >> well, our conversations are cordial. i always had a good relationship, despite being in different parties with senator mcconnell. my hope is that something that he is willing to do, that it

seems like everything is a negotiation in washington, and isn't that frustrating? i see a little bit of that here. doing the right thing in the midst of an international pandemic shouldn't be that hard. and pushing all the rest aside and just saying what do we need and let's do it, instead of let's horse trade back and forth, but that's the way things appear to be done in d.c. so my hope is that there are plans in that horse trade to get it done, but it's got to happen quick. both the unemployment assistance and the state stabilization needs to happen quickly. it's urgent for every state. it's urgent for our economy. and put it this way, i'm grateful that they are going to include money to help our schools deal with covid-19, but if we have the deepest budget cuts in our history, how many teachers are going to be there to actually provide that education for our students? this is all connected. let's make sure we do it right. >> kentucky governor andy beshear, democrat from kentucky,

thank you for coming on and sharing your perspective. good luck, stay safe, and stay healthy. >> thank you, you too. >> up ahead, a new clash over portland. are federal agents staying or going? the answer may depend on who you ask and how you ask the question. the latest on the battle between the state and the trump administration next. the coronavirus is wrecking state and local budgets. if the senate doesn't act, it will mean painful cuts

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welcome back. new developments today in the ongoing standoff between protesters and federal officers in portland. oregon governor kate brown announced on twitter this morning and reiterated in a statement this afternoon that the federal law enforcement officers tasked with suppressing protests are leaving downtown portland tomorrow and going home shortly thereafter. but the acting dhs secretaryids in a statement on a conference call and then on fox news that federal officers are not leaving portland and president trump also said federal officers aren't leaving until portland has secured their city. so let's try to clear all this up. pete williams is here to try to explain the situation. so pete, i have to say, is this a situation where everybody is hearing what they want to hear in their conversations with each other? >> well, to some extent. i mean, look, i think everybody agrees on this, that the role of standing out unfront of the courthouse and protecting it from violent demonstrators is going to be shifted to oregon state police. you're going to see fewer feds outside in front of the courthouse and more state

police. there will be some -- i think you're going to see an additional, if you will, perimeter beyond that fence that the feds have put up around the base of the courthouse. that's where the state police will patrol. there will be some state police inside the federal perimeter, too. so the real question is, okay, what happens to all those federal officials that were there, and it seems pretty clear they're not immediately going to get on the bus and leave town, that the department of homeland security wants to make sure that this handoff works. and does what they want it to do, which is to say protect the federal building. so some of those cbp and i.c.e. people who have been there will probably go back inside the building. some of them may be mustered nearby to stand by if needed. they're clearly not, quote/unquote, leaving portland. it's interesting that the statement from the homeland security department says they're leaving downtown portland, but they're not leaving the area that they can be called in if

they're needed. and then, as the days go by, if this handoff works, and they'll undoubtedly draw down the federal force. i think that's what everybody really agrees on. >> and again, it sort of gets at, it feels like everyone heard what they wanted and ran to their corner. we understand these operations are supposed lee being expanded to cleveland, milwaukee, detroit. what does that mean? >> the operations to counter violent crime, they say, are being extended to those other cities, all this part of operation legend, this what they try to draw a distinction on, crime fighting. >> so this is more similar to what they're doing in kansas city, not necessarily what we're seeing in portland. but it has been getting conflated quite a bit. >> yes. >> pete williams, as always, sir, thank you for doing your best to help clear that up. >> you bet. >> up next, we'll talk to a key

democratic senator about where the latest virus relief bill stands and the very harsh words the president had for the entire democratic party. it was just moments ago. we'll show it to you after the break. er the break. an army family who is always at the ready. so when they got a little surprise... two!? ...they didn't panic. they got a bigger car for their soon-to-be-bigger family. after shopping around for insurance, they called usaa - who helped find the right coverage for them and even some much-needed savings. that was the easy part. usaa insurance is made the way liz and mike need it- easy.

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they don't love our country. in any way, shape, or form, they don't love our country. there's no respect, but there is by you, and there is by 95% of our people, our people love our country. and our people love our anthem, and they love our flag. the radical left wants to tear down everything in its way and in its place, they want power for themselves. they want power. hard to believe, power. they want to indoctrinate our children, defund our police, abolish the suburbs, incite riots and leave every city at the mercy of the radical left. that's not going to happen. >> welcome back.

that was the sitting president of the united states talking about fellow americans moments ago in texas. not exactly the words you might expect from a president whose current chief of staff has been negotiating with speaker nancy pelosi right now on a coronavirus relief bill, sort of quite the odd backdrop between the two. and joining me now is the number two democrat in the united states senate, dick durbin. senator durbin, welcome back to the show. and look, i know we're all numb to sort of political rhetoric these days, but i'm old enough to remember when hillary clinton used the word deplorable, there was this collective outrage. this probably won't even register on the political richter scale these days, but any response to the president? >> president trump's rants have become even more bizarre. i think he reserves some of his thinking for his twitter account, for the tweets he puts

out every hour of the day and night. but then he gets on the microphone and just spews this craziness. one crazy statement after another. it's no way to run a great country. certainly in the midst of a pandemic, national health crisis, and an economy that's flat on its back. i'm worried about it. we're seeing washington at its worst. at this moment in time, chuck, the leader of the senate republicans will not sit at the same table with the leader of the democrats of the house and senate. i don't understand that. that really isn't the way you get things done. back in march, we passed the c.a.r.e.s. act with a 96-0 vote. it was a bipartisan measure. the american people, at least people in illinois, came up to me and said well, thank goodness, i didn't think that wows going to happen in washington. but we're not close to a conversation yet. at this point, the republican senators are in disarray. half said they're not going to vote for anything, nothing, not a penny for anything. you take a look at america today and say really, are we going to

walk away from 30 million unaployed people receiving federal assistance? that all ends in a matter of hours. >> i'm curious, i asked this earlier today. it does seem as if the peaieceml approach is what is going to happen. are you willing to support basically the quick fixes you hear thrown out there, maybe temporarily extending ui, temporarily extending some of this stuff. the eviction moratorium, and then keeping the negotiations going? is that -- is that a realistic sort of plan c here right now? >> well, i asked chuck schumer just moments ago on the floor of the senate, what is this piecemeal approach? he said they haven't made that offer to us in any way, shape, or form. secretary mnuchin who i'm told does a great job as a negotiator, is moving from office to office. trying to see if there's any basis for agreement. do i think we should send a lifeline to 30 million

unemployed americans who are about to lose the check they're depending on to pay their rent, their mortgage, their utility bills, their health insurance, put food on the table? of course, i do. i wouldn't want to leave these people in the lurch. when it comes to rent, there are folks, how are you going to deal with being evicted in the midst of a pandemic when you're supposed to shelter in place? where is your shelter when you're homeless? >> you have been around washington a long time. you have been in leadership a long time. i normally sort of ignore the games playing at this point, right? i feel like it's wash, rinse, repeat. there's a debt ceiling, a cliff, a government shutdown, and it ends up at the end, something happens. i have to be honest, i have no idea how you land this plane. do you? >> i don't. if you just look at the calendar, it was ten weeks ago that nancy pelosi passed this rescue package calls the heroes act. it helped state and local governments.

you just heard the governor of kentucky talk about how desperate they are for assistance. it's true across america, states blue and red. they do need help, and we believe it should be part of this. we need to help the unemployed. we need to make sure that the businesses have a chance to come back and be strong again, and the federal reserve chairman tells us don't take your foot off the accelerator or things will get worse for the national debt and worse for the economy, but i have to agree with you, chuck. i sit here and think, if mitch mcconnell will not sit in the same room at the same table as the other leaders of the democratic side, and someone from the white house, we're a long way from getting things done. this is truly washington at its worst. >> let me ask you this. are senate -- i mean, it does seem as if senate republicans are divided. are there some that are reaching across to you, saying hey, look, we'll work with you on x, y, and z? are those conversations breaking out or not yet? >> they're waiting for their cue

from their leader, senator mcconnell, who has held back for ten weeks and not produced anything until this last monday. this last monday, they gave us eight different bills they want to introduce. you don't end up in last-minute negotiation by introducing a bill to the floor of the senate, for goodness sakes. that's their proprosal. i haven't heard any overtures from republicans. they're waiting for the leadership of senator mcconnell. >> before i let you go, some would say you were very instrumental in helping a young junior senator from illinois get on the national radar, get a bunch of support in the democratic party, in barack obama. do you have advice to joe biden on his running mate selection? somebody you know a long time. i mean, i know you're partial to a current junior senator in senator duckworth, but what kind of advice have you given joe biden about how to go about finding a running mate? >> chuck, it was a once in a political lifetime to tap your

junior senator on the shoulder and say, i'm behind you. run for president. and to sit in an rv with him in florida as i did with a legal pad in his lap and go through potential names of running mates, he didn't make the decision there, but he asked me my advice. i was flattered he would even take the time. what does joe biden need to do? first, pick a credible running mate who could run the government of the united states being a heartbeat away. secondly, he needs someone who fits with him on a personality and chemistry basis. third, i hope it's someone who can really add something to bring this nation back together again. we have to bind the wounds of this nation as abraham lincoln said in the second inaugural. more than anything, we need someone, and i think joe biden is that person, who has the caring and compassion to start to bring this country back together. his running mate can help. >> and i assume you believe that should be tammy duckworth? >> well, i'm for tammy duckworth. let me tell you, she's an american hero. what that woman has done with her life, what she has given to this country, what she continues to give, not only as senator

from illinois but as the voice of veterans in the military and on the democratic side of the united states senate, she's an extraordinary person. and there are aspects of her life which i'm just learning now which just confirm in my mind that she's an inspiration. i think she would be a great running mate. i leave it to go jo tee make the final decision. >> she would be the first veteran on any ticket of any party since 2008. senator dick durbin of illinois. that's for sure. thank you, sir, for coming on and sharing your perspective. >> you bet. here is a live look right now at the georgia state capitol rotunda where congressman john lewis will lie in state until tomorrow. his private funeral will be held tomorrow at ebenezer baptist church in atlanta, which is the former pulpit of dr. martin luther king. a source familiar with the planning tells nbc news that barack obama will deliver the eulogy. he will then be buried in atlanta. john lewis died july 17th at the age of 80. we'll be right back.

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when i refinanced with sofi, that allowed me to pay off aggressively and save without breaking my back or breaking the bank. welcome back. four of the most influential men in tech are appearing before congress virtually. they've all been questioned all day by the house judiciary sub committee hearing about tech companies and whether or not they're operating as monopolies.

the hearing has been marked by unfocused questioning. partisan fighting and yes, technical difficulties. even the biggest names in tech can't always video conference without a problem. jeff bezos may be buff but he was also buffering today. here to help us break it down, i've been using that bad joke all day so thank you for giving me a quick laugh. what happened today that mattered and what happened today that didn't? >> well, a lot of it matters. it was very disorganized sometimes. it was characterized by a lot of members of coming doing their normal member of congress things where they sometimes yell stuff that's not necessarily relevant to the hearing that's happening. what we saw was an exploration of power. a bit about anti-trust and the letter of the law and whether or not they're monopolies or could survive a lawsuit, challenging they will as monopolies but lawmakers were probing what happens when companies get big and powerful and the myriad

consequences it could have. so we saw lots of exchanges in which lawmakers were bringing up emails that mark zuckerberg at facebook and tim cook and his other executives at apple were sending in which they talked about ways that at least in the minds of lawmakers showed they were keeping down competitors or taking actions or making other decisions that could hurt consumers or jeopardize their data. so really this could set the stage for congress to hold additional hearings, to do further inquiry. i wouldn't count all of it out. >> what did, did you get a sense of, from the ceos, who was trying to be the sort of the white knight here to say, here's how you regulate us, and you're right, we don't do some things right. was there anyone trying to be above the fray, if you will? >> yeah. we've heard that line from time to time especially from facebook

which has said, hey, come regulate us. we know there are things we can't do on our own. in this case, we heard much more from the executives talking about their imports to the u.s. economy. marchly as we deal with the economic downturn caused by the coronavirus. time and again they were pointing to the fact that they are not just big tech companies but big job creators. they pay people lots of money and they offer good benefits and they poor lots of dollars into research and development. so in some cases, that was the argument against breaking up their companies. google said it pretty explicitly. saying that if they weren't the size that they are, they couldn't do the work that they do on gambits like self-driving cars and drones and things of that sort. they didn't think it was enough for scrutiny. >> it is clearly going to be a long, drawn out, you and i might

be talking about this for years as far as how long it will take to regulate big tech. i apologize for the short segment but i appreciate your succinct analysis. we'll be right back. analysis. we'll be right back. as a caricature artist, i appreciate what makes each person unique. that's why i like liberty mutual. they get that no two people are alike and customize your car insurance so you only pay for what you need. almost done. what do you think? i don't see it. only pay for what you need. ♪ liberty. liberty. liberty. liberty. ♪ right now, there are over a million walmart

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that's all we have for tonight. we'll be back tomorrow. we'll have more "meet the press daily." good evening, ari. >> good evening, chuck. welcome to "the beat." we're tracking new developments right now in a comingal clash over covid relief. 50 million americans still without jobs and these current relief benefits are set to expire on friday if congress doesn't act. top democrats pushing to continue the same $600 level of unemployment benefits. many republicans trying to cut that. this looks like more than a battle between parties right now because some republicans are breaking with trump who is talking up the short term fix on