>> those were just words but as the great rachel maddow says, pay attention to what they're doing. we have trump's secret police unidentified federal agents grabbing peaceful protesters and throwing them in unmarked vehicles. we're in the throes of a worsening pandemic that is taking our gdp and to distract from all that, trump is working to discredit the election process, should he, in fact, lose. tweeting that mail in voting is inaccurate, which is not true. and we should, therefore, delay the election, which he can't do. it's all part of the elaborate narrative from fake news to fake polls that trump has built for years. perhaps for this very moment to hold on to power despite what the american voters want. that scenario is so plausible that a bipartisan group of former government and military officials secretly gather to game out a contested trump/biden election. the coorganizer of that meeting

joins me now. she's rosa brooks, professor at georgetown university law center and author of "everything became war and the military became everything" and joining me tom nichols of ""usa today"" and former rnc chairman michael steele. thank you very much for being here this saturday morning. rosa, i want to start with you. as a coorganizer of that war gaming. apparently you ran through three or four different scenarios. can you run through them quickly? >> sure. we gave our exercise participants four scenarios. one was a big decisive biden win. a popular vote and electoral vote. one was a trump win where he, as in 2016, lost the popular vote but won the electoral vote decisively. one was a narrow biden win. a squeaker in the electoral college with the popular vote lead and the final scenario

involved a period of extended uncertainty like the election of 2000 where it seemed like it was going to be essentially interminate who really won. >> in all of those scenarios, as it was reported in, i think in the "boston globe" in all the scenarios what turned out to happen was predicted street level violence. no matter what scenario happened. how, as a war gaming went through and worked its way through, what were the reactions of all these sort of seasoned grizzled veterans who are gathered around doing this? what were the reactions? >> you know, this is a good question to put to michael steele. he was one of our participants on one exercise. i think people are kind of shocked. i think on the one hand, nobody expected donald trump to be a champion in the rule of law.

on the other hand i think that democrats, especially, but also lots and lots of republicans have a touching faith in the law to save us from donald trump. and what the exercises certainly demonstrated we cannot put our faith in some magical court to come down and say now, trump, you must behave and for trump to say sorry about that. i'll stop doing whatever i was doing. that in each of our exercises, what happened right away the players playing were extremely ruthless out of the game. >> i can imagine. they stopped the count the mail in ballots. in one scenario they shut down the post office. in other scenarios they fought to have sympathetic governs use the national guard to seize and sequester allegedly fraudulent

ballots. they called on the second amendment to get armed supporters to threaten and intimidate electors and ballot counters. in all the situations, it pains me to say it, the democrats were sort of left wringing their hands and saying but that's illegal. >> i'm laughing because that's what democrats do. i was going to go to ellie next. michael steele, i didn't know you were a part of this war gaming. i should have considering the thing rose is a outlined what republicans did. from your perspective, from your perspective, could -- we're old friends. i had to do it. michael, you were part of this, from your perspective, what did you learn? what concerns were elevated as a result of participating? >> y'all better buckle up.

i think rosa laid it out right. the idea the war gaming was not let's figure worst case scenarios. they were based on what we seen come out of the administration and how democrats responded to now. how republicans responded up to now. how governors responded during the covid crisis. sort of taking the trump way and exposing their public to the dangers of covid-19 as opposed to doing what you think logically would make sense. to be aware of what is at stake here and the degree to which, you know, again why i have been screaming for the past few weeks? y'all be wake up and get your act together. what is about to come is real. the reason is because of what the scenarios tell us. not just how donald trump will behave but the elements and

components of our democracy may or may not function as a result of what the man decides to do. that's the element. i keep talking about it. democrats wake up. you cannot approach the election from a conventional perspective. donald trump will play you for a sucker in a heart beat, if you do. as we've seen, he has no rules. 0 he has no bounds. our goal is to figure out how the institutions will hold up under the pressure and how the american people will hold up under that pressure. we cannot just rely on one party or one individual doing what they're supposed to do. it's going to take all of us from local governments all the way up the chain to make sure that this election is held appropriately. >> it was the perfect set up for you. before i get you to give your

thoughts. i'm going to put up the tweet that rosa tweeted. don't be in a fantastic threat, if you haven't read it yet. you can see it there. the six part of the thread. that has been president trump's m.o. creating chaos. respond to what chairman steele talked about. >> it's why he doesn't want to delay the election. he wants to delegitimize the election. he would lose to cup of joe. not just joe biden. i appreciate what steele has

done. i would like to say i have wan warning people to take seriously for the past 20 years what happens when republican steele acourts. one of the things that is happening now with our election is not so much that trump is trying to steel it but the courts are trying to steel it for him. this is why they stole a extreme court. this is why they've been packing federal courts and state courts with hard core conservatives. it's the thing that binds republicans together on the bench is a hostility to voting rights. and we are seeing that in all of our localities now. to make it easierer to have mail in voting. the courts are doing everything they can to make sure that the election is chaotic as possible and that is by republican

design. democrats have to be ready for what is coming but this is what i've been screaming about for the past 20 years. >> there's a story in the great "washington post" on thursday that points to one of the things you were talking abouting. postal service backlog sparks worries that ballot delivery could be delayed in november. tom, i want to come to you now. donald trump, i think chairman steele said, you know -- it's a asymmetrical fighter. i always thought that president trump wants to stay in office as long as he can because the moment he's no longer in office he is at the mercy.

>>ic he worries about that and researching how to pardon himself forever and perpetuity because that's the thing he would think of. you know, you have two separate groups here that have an interest in destroying the election. truf is about trump. i don't think trump wanted to be elected president. now he wants to ride the rocket all the way down. but there's also a group of republicans and conservatives around him. they're like the shark. they think that keeping trump in power by any means necessary is kind of their last-ditch effort to save western civilization. as ellie said, to to try to keep moving voter suppression so they can enable minority rule for years to come. i want to inject a little note

and say i think a lot of it is going to backfire. you know, even mitch mcconnell is saying republicans if you walk away from donald trump now that's, you know, at least one glimmer. here we are having an election full of chaos and violence because of one man and because of the people around him who have a vested interest in letting him have that chaos. and i keep saying let's not get too distracted by trump. keep your eye on bill barr and the people around him who are a lot more confident and less emotionally disorderered than he is and know what they're doing. >> that's a great point, tom. i have a question for all of you round robin. before i get to that, michael steele, as a former chairman of the republican party, where is your party?

to tom's point, mitch mcconnell is, you know, giving but it's too little too late. where are they? where the defenders of the constitution when the constitution is in danger. >> you know it's where they've always been. you know, underneath donald trump's left cheek. i don't know. >> bam. >> you know these folks -- and that's butler chet cheek. >> no, no. we all got it. >> i want to make sure. sometimes it ain't clear. the reality, jonathan, is folks made a bargain with the devil. and i think to tom's point, they're like, you know, push on the shark. they're like that thing is going to stick and stay we're just

going to ride it. but what then happens. at some point the fish releases this shark ain't moving right. it's dead or dying and i need to get off. self-preservation, at some point, kicks. that's why where they are. the american people have been watching for three years. self-preservation won't be enough to preserve yourself at this point. >> okay. starting with rosa, what is the most likely scenario come november, rosa? -- >> james mur i are is the head of the united states department of secret service and at some point, it is going to be on him

to save the republic. >> wait. talk about that more quick. >> trump is going to lose. he'll have to be taken away once he loses and the first person who can do that is the head of secret service. that's how trump forces us to think. we have to ask what mike esper thinks about moving the election. what chad wolf, department of homeland storm troopers thinks about moving the election. that's where we are. and james murray, who is trump's hand picked out of the secret service because he fired the guy he called dumbo. >> tom? >> trump will lose. he's a coward. he will not have to be removed from the white house. he will leave sulking and pouting and shaking his fist that it was all rigged and he never wanted to be president

anyway. and the most interesting question about the chaos, i agree with rosa, there's going to be chaos and he's going to poison as much as possible. i'll take money he'll skip joe biden's inauguration. and chairman steele. >> i think rosa and tom found the sweet spot. i think that's the scenario that will play out is what we've seen and what i think is kind of been foretold by trump himself. i think that's the space we need to guard ourselves against and be prepared for. >> actually, you know, that's the scenario i think will happen and i hope that's what happens. thank you very much. we have to end the conversation there. rosa will be back in the next hour. coming up, august is about

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the original unemployment benefits actually pay people to stay home. more people got more money staying home than going back to work. the president has been clear and our republican senators are going to be clear we're not going to extend that provision. >> the fair thing to replace wages. it wouldn't be fair to use taxpayer dollars to pay more people to sit home than they would get working at a job. >> this morning millions of americans are waking up totally unsure of their financial future after mitch mcconnell and company once again failed to approve an extension to the supplemental $600 weekly unemployment insurance checks. they also let a more or atorium

evictions to expire. some republicans have claimed people are earning more staying home collecting unemployment than they would be at their jobs. a ludicrous talking point. the $600 weekly benefits aren't the problem. the problem is most hourly workers simply aren't getting paid enough even when they can safely go to work. joining me now to break it down is the host of msnbc's "velshi" ali velshi i cannot imagine a better american to be on to talk about this. thank you. i want to bust you the myth that we heard from secreta mnuchin. $600 weekly divided by 40 hours a week is $15 per hour. that's what a lot of democrats

have been pushing for. look at this, the republicans wanted to reduce it to $200 a week. over 40 hours per week, that's $5 a week. when you look at the federal minimum wage since 2009, it is now $7.25 per hour. that's the minimum wage. >> yep. >> given the information we showed in those three elements, talk about this notion that people are being paid to sit at home and it's better to be unemployed collecting unemployment benefits than actually working. >> no. so there's two ways to bust that myth. you've already effectively done one of them. if it's true, if you're actually earning more money staying home on unemployment, then you would be gaining in wages, then we have a different societal problem to talk about. that means your wages are too low. number one. number two, i don't know how many different ways we want to look at unemployment now but i'm not sure where steve mnuchin and mark meadows think the jobs are

that people could otherwise be in as opposed to being in unemployment. it's a myth. it's the same people who came up with the welfare queen idea. the myth people want to be unemployed. it's not the american thing. let's talk about the supplement. the $600 is an up to amount. not everybody was getting $600. they were getting some match up to. they're bringing it down. when you look at wages in america, you talk about 7.25 was the last increase in 2009. in 2009 if unemployment kept pace with hourly wages when they were invented when minimum wage was invented, we would have, by 2009, been at about $10.50 or $10.75 an hour. by 2020, we would be up about $14 an hour right now. so that's if you never increased. if you indexed minimum wage to inflation. that's what we should be

getting. the reason it's relevant people need the money to live in america. if you earn the minimum wage in 95% of the counties in this country, you can't afford a one-bedroom apartment. we have two problems. we have a wage problem already. we have the silliness coming from congress about we've done enough and we're paying people to stay home. sadly, we'll find out this isn't true. it didn't get extended and suddenly all of these people who apparently are sitting on the couches and not working because they were getting free checks from the government are not going to go back to work because the work doesn't exist. >> i'm glad you walked us through that. you know, on instagram, a friend of mine put out this. i forgot to tell the producers about this element. but it's a 10-year challenge two bedroom fair market rent from@justeconomics wnc. $600 a month 2009 for rent. $7.25 minimum wage.

2020 monthly rent average $1,255. 2020 minimum wage $7.25. >> $7.25. that is exactly why you want to index this to inflation. because you can't make a decision that it stays static. it's ridiculous. but this is work! i mean, jonathan, you understand this. this is noble. this is what we do. >> right. >> it's just not -- it doesn't make any sense in the richest country in the world we pay people something that can't be a livi living wage. that grown adults need to room with other people in order to exist. that's why coronavirus hits the poorest the most. they can't afford the fancy living situations that the rest of us have where we have so much square footage around us. it's a larger problem this administration is exacerbating in the middle of this pandemic. >> right. forcing people to go to work in the middle of a pandemic puts

them at risk, puts the public at risk, and then they go home, most likely to multigenerational homes and spread the virus. >> right. >> there was a yale study, i think -- no. the jpmorgan study that came out about the $600 supplemental from the npr story. it's interesting. the jpmorgan chase found that households receiving benefits spent $10,000 above prepandemic levels compared to a spending drop of 10% for employed households. explain that. >> so this is typical. you find it in recessions or find it generally with people who get any kind of supplemental aid or government aid. generally speaking, the minute you have excess money in your life, you don't have to spend it all. if you earn $100,000 a year and it costs $60,000 to live, you have $40,000 extra you. you might invest it, spend it,

or save it. if it costs $60,000 and you spend $55,0-- get $55,000 you h shortfall. you might buy enough milk with your children. fill your tank a little bit more. what you might do is buy the necessities you don't otherwise get. if you earn more money, i have no issue with people earning lots of money, you tend to have excess, according to your needs. right. if you and i both consume a certain amount of protein every year, i'm going consume a certain amount more if i'm wealthier. i won't eat five times as much. we won't drink five times as much. that's the issue, if you're not meeting your basic needs and the government gives you extra money, 100% of the extra money goes back into the economy and generates more sales and more economic activity and more jobs. you give rich people more money, some goes to the economy. some goes into their savings. >> ali velshi, thank you very

much. i want to make sure that everyone knows we'll be talking to nancy pelosi about this. thank you for hanging around. >> my pleasure. coming up, florida is getting hammered by the coronavirus and the last thing they need is a hurricane. well, guess what. that's next. hurricane well, guess what that's next.

some breaking news this morning. parts of florida are under a hurricane warning this morning bracing as the hurricane passes over the bahamas with sustained winds of 85 miles per hour. floridians should expect the storm to arrive overnight tonight with heavy rain and a potentially dangerous storm surge. isias is expected to downgrade to a tropical storm as it travels north. we'll keep you updated with the latest information. coming up, the real outside agitators at the protests for black lives. ors at the protests black lives. the chase mobile app, your bank can be virtually any place. so, when you get a check... you can deposit it from here.

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in the wake of george floyd's death violent protesters have hijacked legitimate protests to bring destruction upon innocent victims. the situation in portland is a telling example. >> attorney general barr got to televise his crafted narrative that the protesters in portland are violent agitators destroying our cities. barr's descriptions was undercut

when the police in minneapolis said the so-called umbrella man who snatched property has links to white supremacists. joining me now is keith ellison, general attorney of minnesota. thank you very much for being here. >> good to be with you. >> so, keith, i remember at the time -- the early days of the protests in minneapolis you were the one who raised the alarm about umbrella man. asking people do you know who this person is? you mentioned it's possible, in later interviews, possible connections to white nationalists. why were you sure then about that connection? >> because the protesters who were outraged by what happened to george floyd were open. they were not concealing their identity. they wore t-shirts. they had signs. they were very clear why they were there. this guy did not want to be known. he had an umbrella to protect him from overhead cameras.

he had face masks on. he had a tear gas mask. he was extremely prepared. and the protesters were confronting him. they didn't know who he was. i knew there was something suspicious about this guy. i am schooled in the history of provock or provo provock tours. >> was he the only person who had suspected links to white nationalists or did you have -- do you have information of a more organized effort around the protests of george floyd in minneapolis of white nationalists? >> so far about four people from greater minnesota, rochester, andover have been charged by the u.s. attorney. one person from minneapolis --

[ inaudible ] was operating against the protests. people in my neighborhood were defending small business owners from attacks. it was simply exploiting the moment opportunistically. latino business people were out on lake street in minneapolis protecting their business from the same sort of folks. so the property damage to the fires and all the kind of things many of these were done by people who were 180 degrees against protest and were trying to disparage and taint the image of the protesters who were raising the issues around police accountability. >> you know we bumped in with some sound from attorney general bill barr's testimony this week on capitol hill. what is your reaction to him, what seemed to be a blanket characterization of all protesters as being agitators? >> you know, this stalls back to

the problem that we saw for so long that, look, the u.s. department of justice, the homeland security must investigate white supremacists, nationalist organizations more aggressively than they do. they have been able to throuflo and grow and become more aggressive and antagonistic and they're starting to create a massive -- in some cases loss of life. in fact, we know one of those types was associated with a murder of a federal agent on the west coast. so the bottom line is not enforcing the law -- not investigating these groups, not putting due amount of attention on these white supremacists, violent groups is allowing them to flourish. you cannot have immunity here or you'll get more bad behavior.

>> one more question before i let you go. president trump has sent unidentified federal troops to portland. he is sending them to other cities. have you heard from the justice department about whether unidentified federal troops are being sent to minneapolis or any other city or town in minnesota? >> so far they have not identified minneapolis specifically. we do believe our state has the capacity and the right to maintain law and order in our own state. we don't need that federal assistance. we have not asked for it. we certainly would be alarmed if what happened in portland is what happened here. >> keith ellison, attorney general of the state of minnesota, thank you very much for being on this morning. >> thank you. more "a.m. joy" after the break. you more "a.m. joy" after the break. ta-da!

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coming up next, the biggest decision of joe biden's campaign. president obama's senior advisor valerie jarrett will be here to talk about it.

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i'm going to have this choice in the first week in august, and, umm, i promise to let you know. >> good morning and welcome back to "a.m. joy." i'm jonathan capehart. after months of speculation and anticipation, in a matter of

days, joe biden will announce his running mate. it's a decision that could be history in the making. biden has publicly vowed to choose a woman and multiple power house women of color have emerged as leading contenders for the vp slot. historically, several trail blazers have paved spot. historically, several trail blazers paved the way. shirley chisholm became the first woman and black woman to run for the democratic party's nomination for president n. 1984, democratic presidential candidate walter mon dale made history when he announced new york congresswoman geraldine ferraro, as his running mate. making her the first female nominee to represent a major political party. sarah palin became the first female republican vice president, candidate in 2008. in the same year the american people made history and elected barack obama as the first black president of the united states. and, of course, most recently in 2016, hillary clinton put a

major crack in the glass ceiling when she became the first female presidential nominee of a major political party. and history could be made again this week, if joe biden selects a woman of color to be his running mate. in the past month, several names have been floated to run alongside joe biden. and i've had the opportunity to interview many of those women on my washington post podcast. today, we're going to take a closer look at just six of the potential candidates. there's florida congresswoman sal demings, who rose to prominence as an impeachment during trump okay impeachment manager early this year. beyond taking on donald trump and the u.s. congress, demings spends free time riding around her district on her harley and is also a hard product of the south. >> when i think about my own story, as i said, i grew up the daughter of a maid and a janitor and a poor black and female in

the south. someone told a lot of times i wasn't the right color or gender. i didn't have money, a famous last name. my maiden name appeared on no building, but my mother pushed me and said, no, you can make it. >> senator tack my duckworth of illinois, an army veteran that lost both legs in combat and awarded the purple heart. >> i have the great privilege of titanium legs the american people fought four me in the va system. they don't buck him. i am happy to stand up to bullies like president trump and others like karlsson tuck tore do the american's bidding to distract the failures of this president. >> the former national to the u.n. and obama national security adviser, susan rice, whose great grandfather was a slave and who wenten to serve in the highest levels of government. >> on my dad's side, he was a friend son of slaves and he was

able to rise out of jim crowe and the deepest form of segregation in south carolina in the 1920s and '30s. and serve as tuskegee with the storied airmen and then go on to get his ph.d. in economics and join the federal reserve board. and i think they'd be looking back and saying that, you know, what a blessing that in this country, you can be an immigrant. you can be the descendant of slaves and you can still reap the opportunities of this great country. >> there is senator kamela harris of california, who invokes the late memory of her late mother as the biggest sources of inspiration. >> she was a fighter and she was practical. she would say, baby, focus on what's in front of you as the next thing, whatever that's meant to be will come. >> there's california congresswoman karen bass who became a community activist and

leader during the 1990s before jumping into politics. >> they knew that their daughter was always a community activist, was always involved in politics. yet they were always scared to death, by the way. they never wanted to see me run for office. they worried i was going to get hurt in the process. so i think that they would be extremely proud. >> and lastly, stacy abrams of humble beginnings, who made history as the first black woman gubernatorial nominee during her hard fought battle of the governor of georgia. >> my mother dropped out of the 4th grade because they couldn't afford segregated school bus. my dad was a dyslexic kid who was told he was stupid and they didn't have the resources. and a single generation, they've produced a federal judge, two ph.d.s, a social worker. a lot of us. my brother walter who i can talk about later and they have a

daughter who became the first black woman to be the nominee for major party in the history of america. >> and joining me now is valerie jarrett, former adviser to president barack obama and author of "finding my voice." thank you very much for being here this morning. >> hello you, jonathan, how are you? you look good in that chair. >> thank you very much. so i want to start off this conversation by quoting the great congressman of south carolina, congressman jim clyburn, who has gone on record as saying that a black woman is not a must but a plus. what are you on that question? >> well, i trust vice president biden to pick from this extraordinary group of women. what a tough choice. i had goose bumps when you were highlighting each of them. their story reflects so well on the american story. they are a part of the fabric of our country. they represent the greatness of our country. so, i trust him to make the

right decision and i'm just delighted that he has so many talented women with great track records, all of who are prepared not only to be vice president but to be president. >> you know, i'm glad you brought up. you mentioned that word prepared. because one of the things in reading the stories in the lead-up to the big moment that you hear is that, well, joe bind should pick the person who is qualified for the job as opposed to focusing on race. and to me, that sounds like you can't be a person of color prepared, that they're somehow mutually exclusive. what do you think about that? >> well, you just, you just described all of the women, women of color who are in contention. certainly, each and every one of them are prepared, their life experiences, the diversity that they bring to the table. one of the things that vice president biden had said, which i think is important is not just the vice president but the entire cabinet and the folks that he brings on should reflect

the diversity of our country and that that is a strength and i know that that the a commitment that he has made. >> you know, i would bring up a tweet from sonny halston of "the view" she sent out i believe it was yesterday. it's quote, threw see it on your screen, sick and tired of the tropes bandied about white men labeling black women as too ambitious, disloyal and rubbing people the wrong way, code word aggressive. democrats need to remember black women are the backbone of the party and tweets a cnn article which states karen bass is emerging as a key contender. that's something we are seeing a lot lately. sources and people within the party pitting particularly the black women against each other. what is your reaction to this? and the reaction to what chris dodd has apparently been saying to donors and folks behind the scenes? >> well, first of all, i think

jen o'malley, vice president biden's manager, a strong, competent ambitious woman, she said it well, tweeted a couple days ago, look, ambitious women have made history. they change the world, they win. but the campaign is full of ambitious women and all of the women who are in contention for vice president are ambitious, too. and i would ask you, what vice president of the united states in our nation's history wasn't ambitious? what vice president didn't want to be president? all of the men did. so why do we have a different standard for the women? >> excellent question. if i get a chance to interview chris dodd, i'll ask him that question. final question for you, valerie, as having been a senior adviser to barack obama during his presidential campaign if 2008, you were a part of the mix in terms of the discussion about who the vice president, the vice president, vice presidential pick should be. so now, here we are, 2020, joe

biden is going through that process. give us some insight into what it's like in those final days? what are they talking about behind the scenes as he makes this final decision? >> well, i think at least what we did with president obama, caroline kennedy, ran a process where they cast the net broadly. they did extensive background checks. nobody wants any surprises coming up at the last minute. then ultimately, it was up to president obama to make his decision for himself and i think that's what's going to happen here. i think he has, as i've always said, an embarrassment of riches to choose. he has to figure out who is the right person to be his partner as he takes on what we know will be herculean challenge, hopefully, emerging from this pandemic, building back our economy, making sure is that we're prepared, should another pandemic come along? and so it isn't just who can

help him campaign, all of them can help him campaign? all of them are assets? the question i think he has to ask himself, who does he want to be his partner as he partners so effectively with president obama during the course of his presidency? and he is the only one who can answer that question and i trust him completely to make the right decision. and i am on the edge of my chair. i can't wait until he does and any one of them would serve our country and him well. >> so you have a favorite? >> i love them all. and i had the privilege of knowing them all really well. he has a tough choice do make. whichever one he pick, i know that not only i but many people around this country will get behind that team. it's a winning team, whoever he picks. >> valerie jarrett, former senior adviser to president barack obama. thank you so much for being on this show. >> good luck. let me bring in panel former maryland congresswoman and msnbc

panelist edward mcdonald's, erin hanes, head tore at large. my powerhouse panel to talk about want the vice president biden's choice of vice president. i want to go back to that tweet of sonny haase tins. because ever since that story came out what chris dodd was saying about kamela harris, social media blown up. it crystallizes the anythinger that is out there. let me start with congresswoman edward on this and get your reaction to what seems to be, not seems to be, is, a concerted effort to not only tear down senator harris but to pick senior harris against other women of color in the choice for vp? >> well, i have to tell you, a part of the reason i am chuck

himing is because i have lived that story. and i think that any time a woman is seeking either higher office or, you know, she wants to do something, then and especially black women, you hear the words that come out ambitious, aggressive, rubbing people the wrong way. those things. those are all code words for and then not qualified. so i look at that and i say, you know what, stop it already. especially in the democratic party with black women being really the backbone of the democratic party. the ones who are always there and who show up. just stop it. because that actually gets in the way of what we want is the unity behind this choice when it's finally made. whether it's a woman of color or not. >> heather. >> you know, i think in many ways, this is a historic moment because joe biden is right now in the polls and joining the biggest gender gap we've seen on

record. a 21% gap between his polling among women and donald trump's. hillary clinton only had a 13% gap. so that's a massive gap. we already saw women's electoral power give democrats a landslide victory in the 2018 mid-terms. and so this question is really a referendum on women's leadership. we have had for too long a democracy that is basically run by a third of its population. white men. so already joe biden has made a powerful choice by saying out of the gate, i'm going to have balanced leadership in my white house. that's extremely powerful. now comes the next question, which is in some ways, implicitly, why haven't we been here before? why is that glass ceiling there? i think what you see and hear among his closest advisers is this unconscious biased against advantage women. and i think we can't play a part in continuing to sort of, you know, for example, this idea

that karen bassett somehow is not ambitious because she has not run for president before? of course, she's ambitious. she was a nurse, a clinical nurse who then said i need to start a community organization in order to solve the problems. she ran for office. she led the california democratic party. she ran for congress. she was one of a very small number of women who you know had that role at a time before the 2018 mid-terms. so i think the idea that somehow anyone who wants to lead this country and has ambitions for this country is suspect about their own am biggs businesses is something we need to dismiss out of hand. chris doddee show continues to apologize for it. >> speak of karen bass, congresswoman barks she was a speaking of the california assembly when california was going through its financial meltdown in the early 2000s and had to work with then governor

arno arnold schwarzenegger. erin hayes, your eaction. >> i would say, jonathan, karen bass has not played into the pitting of her against kamela harris. she praised harris as a fellow law maker from -- listen we know of what is making joe biden's decision so difficult is there are so many qualified, capable talented women who bring skills and experience and assets to the table. unfortunately, these are seen as somebody's son, husband or father as a threat or qualities worth criticizing. this is technically not the election. the choice of the running mate is up to the nominee, not don s donors. we are seeing a negative tone before we know the woman who is going to join joe biden on the ticket.

and that's unfortunate. as we prepare to celebrate the sen ten yam of suffer raj and the 19th amendment and consider the possibility of the country getting its very first woman vice president, it is a conversation that's very disappointing and even though joe biden hasn't known or named the woman he will pick, what he can do is quash you know this kind of rhetoric and hope that it's not going to be perpetuated you know by political press corps that we know has historically been very white and male and have driven these kind of narratives in the past. >> i want to go back to the first question i asked jal valerie jarrett with her, congressman clyburn is on record as saying that a black woman running mate for joe biden is not a must but a plus. you have a column in the boston globe, where you can see on the screen, biden must choose a black woman for vice president. each of you. i want you to answer that

question. i've already gone on record saying vice president biden should pick a black woman and explained it fully in my piece. but do you think a black woman for joe biden is a must or in the words of jim clyburn, a plus? i'll start with you, congresswoman edwards. >> well, i don't think it's a must. but i do think that it's a very personal choice and i think if you look at all of the women who are assembled, who are in the running, they each bring something positive to the table and it will be a great story for the vice president to tell. and i think that he wants a partner like, he was a partner to president obama and i think that he can find this in any number of the women who have been floated on this list and i just look forward to the choice in getting it over, because i said for me, i don't really care. i like all of the women. i just want to get down to the

challenge of defeating donald trump and whichever woman he chooses on that list has the ability to help him do that. >> and i neglected to point out, that in the great paper, that is the washington post, you wrote an op-ed to that very point. it doesn't matter which woman joe bind picks as his running mate. heather mcgee, plus or -- >> we have an historic and very scary, frankly, situation facing black america right now. i am more concerned about the fortunes of black america than i am about any one black american. so for me, the question is simple. it's policy. who is the person that is going to be at joe biden's right hand steering him through any president may have ever experienced. you know, black america specifically between the coronavirus pandemic, the rise of white supremacy and white nationalism, including within our police ranks and the economic consequences, where we

have one out of every three americans behind on their housing payments, a scourge of homelessness and of job loss and of businesses lost and of college dreams deferred. this is not idol curiosity. this is not a contest for who can win. this is about the future of black america. so for me, it's really about policy. it's really about who is going to help make this an historic presidency for black america. not for any single black american. >> erin, real quick, must plus or plus? >> listen, it's not up to us. voters, it's up to joe biden. i think this is more than a symbolic choice for many of the black women voters that i have talked to. the vice presidential pick is a choice that lies solely with joe biden and coulded by joe biden as who he prioritizes headed into november. many are in agreement, two white people on the party should be headed. that's not where our country is

headed. at the same time people like elizabeth warren people are saying she has demonstrated a commit to systemic racism when she was a candidate for president so these are the questions, who is going to govern with the health and safety of black america in mind? that's something i am hearing from black women voters as he head into this decision. >> as we go out, you mention how joe biden needs to have a partner. in one of my favorite interview, the favorite quote, comes from susan rice. i want to play it right now. >> do you have the kind of relationship where, with vice president biden where you could cuss each other out behind closed doors at 9:00 a.m. and be on the same page before the cameras at 9:15? >> yes. but it would end with a hug. because that's who he is. i mean, joe biden is what you see.

he's warm. he's empathetic. he's decent. he doesn't use a lot of curse words, by the way. but i can't always claim the same just in all candor. >> and with that, i got to leave it there. thank you, former congresswoman donna edwards, heather and erin will be back later in this show. coming up, trump continues his role as the chief super spreader of coffee misinformation. that's next. . f coffee misinformation that's next. for bathroom odors that linger

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zblrnlgs . would you agree with me that the critical difference is either the presence or the absence of social cohesion and political leadership to actually develop a plan, execute it and stick to it? >> i think there was such a diversity of response in this country from different states that we really did not have a unified bringing everything down. >> the pandemic is showing no signs of slowing, particularly

in hot spots like florida, where some testing centers were closed ahead of hurricane isaias, which is expected to hit florida tonight even as florida faces a record number of deaths and infections. the state has broken its single day record of coronavirus deaths for the past four days in a row. it's becoming increasingly difficult for trump to convince the nation that this crisis is under control and it's hitting close to home. two days ago, one of trump's political ally, businessman and 2012 presidential candidate her man cain died from covid-19. he tested positive nine days after attending trump's rally in tulsa, oklahoma. erin hanes is back with me and joining us is former republican congressman carlos curbelo and howard ko who served in the obama administration, he is now a professor at the harvard school of public health.

congressman curbelo, i will start with you, by, one, expressing my deepest sympathys to the people of florida given what's happening there with the coronavirus. but also the impending hurricane that's bearing down on the state. you're a republican. the governor, governor ron desantis is a republican. can anyone say, with a straight face, that the governor is doing a good job in addressing the coronavirus pandemic in florida given what we are seeing that's going on in the state? >> jonathan, good morning. it's certainly a tough situation in florida. and i think if there is a fair criticism of the governor and many other elected officials in the state is that people got overconfident. florida was spared of the worst early on in this crisis when we were seeing many deaths in new york, new jersey and other parts of the country and i think a lot of people assumed that it wouldn't get worse in florida.

and we weren't prepared at the time for the surge that we saw. it really kind of came by surprise. tankfully now, things are stabilizing a bit. still, we are seeing deaths climbing in florida. it's a difficult situation for the governor and all of us. >> i am glad things are stabilizing in florida. but is the governor doing enoug enough? >> look, again, i think the fairest criticism is that the governor and many other elected officials in the state and i think a lot of floridians were overconfident when the crisis did not hit here hard at first and this surge that started about a month ago caught us totally unprepared. we had reopenings and then we had to close again. that's been difficult for businesses. it's been difficult for families. a lot of people thought school was going to start as normal this year. now, that's not true for a lot of the state.

so, certainly, i think we were unprepared for the surge that came about a month ago. >> you know, dr. ko, speaking of overconfidence that the congresswoman is talking about in florida, we see from the "new york times", a story in the "new york times," that overconfidence is at work in georgia, where as you see there, the coronavirus infected hundreds at a georgia summer camp. so as the staff and counsellors gathered if late june, within a week of the camp orientation, a teenage counsellor developed skills and went home. the camp, withty cdc did not name started sending campers home the next day and shutdown a few days later. by then, 76% of the 344 campers and staffers whose test results were available to vdc researchers had been infected with the virus nearly half the camp. can you aggreddress that, also over kefz that congressman curbelo was talking about in his

home state? >> well, jonathan, i think it's fair to state we are learning something new about the coronavirus every day. this is a novel pandemic. it's a novel threat. so we have to remain humble and cautious and then aggressive as possible about applying science and data to promote public health right now. so we have the public health fight of our lives in our country. the deaths are going up. you notice the numbers in florida. our cases are going up. as the congressman pointed out, the new cases have plateaued somewhat, they've plateaued at a high level. some 60,000 new cases a day. that's double what it used to be a couple months ago. saying the cases plateaued is like saying the speed of a run away car matt toad at 100 miles an hour. right now, we have no cure, no vaccine, although there is some progress that we are awaiting. and so what we have is the power of ve prevention if public health. we have to double down, aavoid

vowed -- avoid crowded areas and overuse of masks world wide. >> we were talking about the over confidence that exhibited in the "new york times" about georgia. then it seemed to be overconfidence within the circle, the inner circle around the president. we have congressman louie ghomert who tested positive, her man cain at the top of this segment who passed away and also we might add the national security adviser to president trump, robert o'brien now in isolation. balls he tested positive for covid-19. >> yes, jonathan. and you know, i'm a native of atlanta and we certainly are thinking about her man cain, son of laernths graduate of morehouse college, a successful businessman. what we are seeing is misinformation during this pandemic is proving hazardous to

people's health. it's you know people like president trump has been you know some say changing his tone around coronavirus, encouraging people now to wear masks, encouraging people, you know, to heed cdc or the guidance of public health officials and scientists. the governor of georgia, brian kevin, recently posting on twitter you know masks with the georgia flag on them, even as he is still against you know mandates for people to wear masks in this state. he is encouraging people now to wear masks more. listen, i pane, this the a cautionary tale, her man cain, louie ghomert, a reminder it's time to take the virus seriously. i used to cover hurricanes, when a hurricane is bearing down on a state, you know there would be guidance coming from experts about precautions that people needed to take to stay safe. if people didn't heed those precautions, they were needlessly dying. i think that's something we are thinking about when we are

talking about this pandemic and listening to the warnings and the precautions that experts are telling the american people to take to stay safe and to protect themselves. we know that the majority of americans you know are in favor of wearing masks. they're taking this seriously. but i think it is still a very open question of whether we are really all in this together. and i think that experts, government official, really can go a long way to fogser that sentiment in this country. >> erin, i am glad you brought that you. you know the sentiment of you know, we are all in this together. and yet, there is a story in "vanity fair," that, you know, to sort of blows that up. how jared kushner's secret testing plan went poof into thin air and most troubling of all perhaps was a sentiment that experts said a member of kushner's team expressed, that because the virus had hit blue states hardest, a national plan was unnecessary and would not

make political sense. folks in the trump administration have been playing politics with this poke from the beg -- with this pandemic from the beginning. >> right, jonathan. and i think that what we've seen is that the pandemic certainly is not playing politics. right. the pandemic doesn't care if somebody is democrat, republican, independent or otherwise. but we have seen the pandemic play out politically in so many ways and, photographically, i think the voters that i talked to, for them, the pandemic is absolutely political. whether we're talking about from a public health standpoint or from an economic standpoint. so it will be very interesting to see how these choices have been made you know by, at the federal level and at the state and local level by elected officials, how that plays out at the ballot box headed into november. >> governor ko, we only have 30 second left, i will give you the last question. a lot of people were talking about the fact that the major

league baseball season mate be canceled given what are you seeing around the country. what's the possibility of that? >> well, we have to follow this so closely, because reopening is a very tenuous process. two eare all seeing that. so we've seen issues in summer camps. we discussed that. we seen major league sports, baseball, other sports may follow as well. we are having a national conversation about the safety of these schools so with every step of this process, we have to follow the data, confront that data as a unified country and plan public health interventions together. we need a national strategy on testing and tracing and prevention and this is all incredibly important as the fall is rising and the seasonal flu is coming as well so this is something we have to do together. >> we've run out of time for the discussion in this block. we will be talking about this in the days and weeks ahead. more am joy after the break. ahd

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coming up, we'll discuss donald trump's alarming phone calls to vladimir putin. stay here, there is more "am joy" after the break. is more "m joy" after the break water? why?! ♪ ahhhh! incoming! ahhhahh! i'm saved! ahhh! ride? no, i'm good. i'm gonna walk. let's go! water tastes like, well, water. so we fixed it. mio so we fixed it. ♪ ♪all strength ♪we ain't stoppin' believe me♪ ♪go straight till the morning look like we♪ ♪won't wait♪ ♪we're taking everything we wanted♪ ♪we can do it ♪all strength, no sweat

. >> it's been widely reported that the u.s. has intelligence indicating russia paid bounties or offered to pay bounties to kill american taliban soldiers. you had a phone call with vladimir putin on july 23rd, did

you bring up this issue? >> no, that was a phone call to discuss other things and, frankly, that's an issue that many pop people said it was fake news. >> fake news? >> a lot of people. >> you never discussed it with him? >> i would, i have no problem with it. >> but you don't know any intelligence, that's why? >> everything, it's interesting, nobody brings up china, they bring up russia, russia, russia. >> 97 p even in this wild week, that was one of the most jaw dropping comments with donald trump he's talked to his buddy vladimir putin eight times, according to kremlin, not the white house, the kremlin and he's brought up the russia bounty gate allegations exactly zero times, the latest and most egregious example of trump putting russia's interests ahead of america. the person that interviand back

with us georgetown professor at george town university, thank you very much for being here. congratulations on that int interview i would love for you because you have been covering president trump for five years. what was is that conversation like having covered him all this time? >> it takes a fair amount to shock me after covering president trump since 2015, but that conversation did. it was actually less than what he said at the start. i was spried he admitted it. a they before a journalist asked him whether he raised the issue of russia paying bountys to taliban fighters to kill

american troops with vladimir putin. president trump said i'm not talking about my conversation. when i pressed him, he admitted he hadn't. that surprised me. it was the second part that i found even more shocking, which is where i said to him, okay. type, this piece of intelligence has been taken seriously. you think it's fake news, let's say you don't believe it. there is dissent in the intelligence community. reasonable people can raise questions about the validity arising from taliban fighters. but what is not in dispute is russia is supplying weapons to the taliban. america h taliban has a lot of american blood on their hands. the fact that we know that is surely enough for to you confront vladimir putin. 1st he he said, we understand,

too, he's referring to hujahaden in the '90s which is a strange example to bring up in that context. then he said, well, i don't know if this is true or not. it was never brought to my desk. but the fact is the top three officer in afghanistan said this on the record when he was working for donald trump. >> jop a than, to that point. let's go to element one to amplify what jonathan just told us. >> it was never brought to my attention. i think it's another russia hoax. they have been giving me the russia hoax, shifty shift from the day i got here. >>? i want to apologize, that is not from jonathan's interview. that was from i believe it was when he was in florida yesterday but this sort of amply fryefys the fountain you were making, if i remember from the slips i have

se seen. he also made the allegation in the interview with you. but i want to brew of element two, because this to me was one of the many shocking things said in your interview jonathan swan with president trump. >> do you read? >> i read a lot. you know, they like to say i don't read. i read a lot. i comprehend extraordinarily well, probably better than anybody that you've interviewed in a long time. i read a lot. i suspend a lot of time with at meetings. >> rosa brooks, are you a former pentagon official as one watching the president of the united states say that, please, give me your reaction to that. >> oh. nothing shocks me any more when it comes to donald trump. if this were anybody else, i would be shocked all over again. i think we should all be done being shocked. expecting trump to make sense, expecting trump to do something

that is in the nation's interest rather than in his own warped sense of interest is a mistake. it's like expecting a 3-year-old having a tantrum to be, you don't hear it. what is shocking to me most is not donald trump's behavior, but the fact that a significant chunk of the american citizenry still supports him and he continue to have enablers both in congress and the pentagon, including defense secretary esper who continue to try to act as if the emperor is wearing clothes. i don't want to go with that. it's a stunning dereliction of duty. it is impossible to imagine any previous american president from either major party having an reaction to that intelligence other than that's shocking. that's unacceptable. i will make it my top priority to investigate this right now and to respond and ensure this does not ever happen again if,

indeed, this is ac rat. >> one of the things the americans are talking about is an op-ed from a person that made waves, good waves, in terms of his patriotism. that was retired colonel vindman. he writes in this op-ed, i'll read part of it, at no point in my career or life have i felt my nation's values in greater threat and peril than at this moment. our national government has been more reminiscent. my family fled more than 40 years ago i devoted. he and his family fled was ukraine. rosa brooks i'll start with you and end with jonathan swann. it's pretty incredible when you have a member of the military

poorly treated. he said in the past he felt bullied by this president to go on the record to say what he's just said. >> no, it's heart breaking to listen to his comments. there was a period of time. i don't know if this is the case. during the impeachment proceedings, the united states army had to protect him and his family after the death clets he was receiving as a result of the president's comments. it is hard to know what to say to that. >> jop a than swan, your reaction to lt. col. vindman? >> it's all at peace with a series of denunciations that have come from retired and very prominent pentagon officials, including james mattis, who had been very, very reluctant to speak out publicly. very much saw it as his duty to

remain his silence, but after the episode at lafayette park with the tear gas and clearing out the crowd, mattis came out and described trump as a unique threat to this country in his lifetime. so i would place that in the context of mattis of wanting to move john kelly, you go down the list, there is a whole series of formers that are coming out publicly to denounce donald trump. >> we're going to have to leave it there. jonathan swann, thank you very much for being on. rosa brooks, thank you for being on all this morning. up next, donald trump's suburban strategy. but these are not his father's suburbs. but these are not his father's suburbs. ♪

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just rescinded the rule. it has been going on for years. i've seen conflict for years. it's been hell for suburbia. rereciscinded the rule. so enjoy your life, ladies and gentlemen. enjoy your life. >> donald trump ask taking a page straight out of george wallace's playbook, using barely coded la ung to promise white suburban neighborhoods, he'll protect their neighborhoods from immigration. joining me now, thank you both very much for being here i want to put up a statistic so we are operating from the same set of facts the president of the united states doesn't know. catalyst, suburban non-white voters, 13% share the electorate

you are man non-white voters are 9%. it's so old. so fought true as we all know, i am blanking on her name right now, i'm on live television i mr. split it out later. she said black people are in the suburbs because they kicked us out of the cities. so heather mcdpee, take that and run with it. knowing the suburbs are the haven of whiteness. >> i think anybody hearing donald trump needs to be under that impression. let's be clear, this is a dog whistle. it's not meant to act at the level of literal communication. it's supposed to invoke an image, which suburban still does and what he is doing is putting himself in a long line of republican who's have used white

fear and resentment of black people to get the majority of people to vote for republicans or president which has happened every single time since lyndon johnson signed the civil rights act. right? what we are suing right now is that moment may be coming to an end. as of the current polling joe biden for the first time in multiple violations has the support of the majority of white voters. why is that? because of those scary black people. because the rioters and protesters. because black lives matter created a moral moment in this country that now the majority of americans are supporting. and so i think that needs something, it's a wake-up calm for democrats as well as republicans that we no longer have the old clintonion calculus of we have as to hang on to white voters and sort of put limits on what we do for black americans and racial justice in

general. the suburbs are with racial justice, there is a coalition asking and demanding for change. >> the person whose name i blanked on is christina greer at fordham university are the black people are in the amplify whats just talking about in terms of the history of using that dog whistle of suburbs as a way of signaling to white people that they're going to be protected from african-americans. >> so, let's be clear, one, it's impossible to argue against donald trump with facts because he doesn't care about the facts, but if you look at the history of the fair housing act, the fair housing act was the last of the great civil rights legislation to get passed for a reason and that's because even progressive white americans or white americans who believe they were progressive responded to the idea of their housing being integrated because outside of

the south, housing segregation was a way that jim crow was largely accomplished. you don't have to bar black people from attending school with your kids or going to the same restaurants and parks as you if they don't live in your neighborhood so he at least understands tactically this is something that has worked in the past. but i agree with heather. i don't think it's effective any more because we know that suburbs are very diverse. there are rare things as all white suburbans ringing urban areas but it is important to point out most people in this country have no idea what affirmatively furthering fair housing means and have no idea there was a rule telling you how to do that and even when he rescinds that rule, affirmatively furthering fair housing is mandated by the fair housing act. all the obama administration was doing was clarifying how communities were to enforce this mandate. you cannot ask the president to

restindz it in the 1968 civil rights act so should be clear about that. what he's doing is largely performative which is not surprising. >> because that's what he does. another factoid that i put on twitter but somehow a lot of people didn't know this but i know y'all two do. no democrat running for president has won the white vote since 1964 and i'll make this a jump off. what happened in 1964? >> lyndon johnson signed the civil rights act. you know, i think it's so -- it's an important context. there are so many white democrats who really don't understand how central the southern strategy has been to the republican party and what an effect that's had on the ceiling of democratic commitments to racial justice. i said before that i think that what the movement for black lives has done in creating a

moral polarizing moment has been a watershed in our history because we are now seeing the majority of americans supporting the movement for black lives and the majority of white people supporting joe biden for president. that is huge. now, i think we should talk a little about what's going on in fair housing in america, especially at a time when one out of three americans is struggling to pay their rent when we have record homelessness and housing insecurity because wages are too low to keep up with the rising cost of housing and people, white, plaque and brown, are finding unaffordable housing to be one of the most pressing issues. and why is that? it is because of the kinds of covenants which are basically the rules that suburbs put on themselves to say, you know what, we can't have any apartment buildings in this neighborhood. we only want big single family housing which means there's less housing, it's less afford many and it's one of the ways that racism has been baked into our rule-making and that's actually

hurting people of all races right now who are working and middle class and struggling to keep the lights on and keep a roof over their head. so honestly the obama era rule was important but it was very modest and so i am hoping that by putting this issue back into the political conversation, we get, you know, the next administration hopefully to do something much more concrete to undo what the federal government did to explicitly seg bring gait the suburbs and to make housing unaffordable for millions of americans. >> mikole hanna-jones, i want to get you to respond to senator tom cotton of arkansas and what he had to say about the 1619 project. he introduced a bill to prevent federal funds from going to teach the 1619 project in schools and the bill is called, quote, saving american history act of 2020. your response? >> i don't even know how one responds to an act that believes

that it needs to save american history from a project through journalism. what i will say is that every american should be deeply concerned when the federal government wants to interfere in the first amendment rights of our communities. what this is basically saying is that he wants to prohibit public schools from teaching a work of journalism because he doesn't like it. even as he unwittingly confirmed the entire these significance of the project when he said that slavery was a quote/unquote necessary evil that the nation was built upon, well, that's actually what the project argues, so i think it's not going to be successful. there's no way to enforce it, but they're clearly buckling down in the culture wars as a last resort. >> if you have not read any part of the 1619 projects you really must. it is a work of art. thank you very much, nikole hannah-jones and heather mcghee. that is our show for today. join me tomorrow at 10:00 a.m.

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whatever your business needs, comcast business has the solutions to help you not just bounce back, but bounce forward. call or go online to find out more. good day, everyone, from msnbc world headquarters in new york it is just about high noon in the east. welcome to "weekends with alex witt." hurricane isaias hits the bahamas. florida bracing for trouble in the middle of a covid crisis.

life much harder for millions of working class americans. new information on what's being done on capitol hill at this hour to help. they came, they partied. they got covid. now a state that flattened the curve is trying to keep the numbers from spiking again. plus, what's behind the president's promise to ban tiktok? but we begin with this breaking news. millions are preparing for hurricane isaias as it approaches the united states. this morning, the category 1 hurricane made landfill on andros island in the bahamas flooding streets and destroying homes and killed at least two people in the dominican republic and it has caused millions in damage in puerto rico. on the mainland u.s. hurricane watches and warnings are in effect for parts of florida's east coast. rain bands are reaching florida right now, in fact, and a new tropical storm watch posted for parts of georgia. officials are urging all residents to complete all their