. members of the senate back if washington but so far bipartisan deal on a new coronavirus relief bill remains elusive as of friday the extra $600 from the federal government provided to individuals on unemployment expired leaving i direst of circumstances as the economic toll from the pandemic rages on. despite the urgency, despite the suffering, all signs point to a difficult road ahead as the structure of unemployment benefits remains a contentious debate between top democrats, and the trump white house. garrett, there was some extraordinary journalism this weekend that builds on your reporting building on the human calamity the food insecurity, the rent insecurity, this is a

human crisis equal to the scale of the public health crisis and they're doing what? fill in the blank for me. >> reporter: yeah, look, people are physically, mentally, emotionally exhausted by all of this. hard to see if capitol hill reflects that same sense of urgency. a sound bite from chuck schumer who just walked out of today's negotiations. this was how chuck schumer described if summation of what they talked about today. take a listen. >> we're really getting an understanding of each side's position and we're making some progress on certain issues, moving closer to together, lot of issues still outstanding but i think there's a desire -- >> reporter: when i hear a getting sense of each other's position on issues in august that doesn't suggest to me a reflection in our elect ed leadership and the white house team that's here they're moving

with the same sense of urgency that people feel. some of the good news, some of the top lines out of these conversations from today zspeaker pelosi and leader schumer talked about a plan for school reopening, how to fund that properly, essentially going through line by line and staff would be meeting overnight. for congress watchers that's good news. reaching that stage is a potentially good sign. on the other side of that coin, another reporter asked leader schumer as he was walking away if there was any progress on those unemployment benefits the republicans are sticking to that position, it's not clear what the republican's position was on the unemployment benefit. i don't know what their unified

position is on those unemployment benefits. >> it would suggest that these people don't know their districts, i mean, the food insecurity, you've covered food lines in dallas, with people driving the kinds of cars you would never imagine they would imagine finding themselves on line for a food bank. it's a disgraceful state of fairs. when we return, new york governor andrew cuomo will join us. he says donald trump's response to the coronavirus pandemic has been "the worst blunder in u.s. history." we'll be right back. with three energy packed proteins feels like. meat! cheese! and nuts! p3. because 3 is better than 1 subut when we realized she wasn hebattling sensitive skin, meat! cheese! and nuts!

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on tv. every night. they've seen this virus increasing all across the country and the death toll going up, you don't think they don't know it was a mistake. >> new york governor cuomo once again taking aim at the government response. white house coronavirus response coordinator dr. deborah birx says we're in, quote, new phase of the pandemic. we're lucky now to be joined by governor cuomo who's all over the news for your comments on the president, your comments about the mayor, we'll get to all of it, though, start with the federal response and the lack of a plan in the sixth month of this pandemic. >> good to be with you, nicolle. look, we see the facts are facts. the virus increasing all across the country, we seeing the

numbers going up, going up in the midwest, we see the health experts, johns hopkins and others saying the nation has to hit a reset. we do need a reset. the reset has to start at the top. we have confusion, we have chaos, we don't have operations set up, it has to start with the president of the united states, he has to stand up and say what he didn't say six months, he has to say to the american people that covid is serious, that we can't deny, it's not political. it's not going to go away magically. the accelerated reopenings were gone. liberate the states movement was wrong, not setting up testing was wrong. i think the american people are confused because they've heard two different messages from the get go, nicolle, and that's where it starts, it has to start with the president, the course they went down was just incorrect, we know that now. we see the numbers.

this is going to ricochet all across the country, place like new york we had the lowest numbers we have had to date today. if the virus is increasing other states, a matter of time before you see it bounce back and forth between the coasts. >> on a scale of 1 to 10 is your fear, you know, higher to 600 about a resurgence in new york city and new york state which remains safer, i guess this is a post-9/11 axiom, safer but not yet safe. >> well, as i said, our numbers today were the lowest that we've seen since we started. the number of hoptizatispitaliz the number of deaths. but nobody is safe until everybody is safe, right, and outbreak anywhere is an outbreak everywhere, we learned that.

the outbreak started in china, nobody paid attention, it went to europe, it came to new york from europe. our first lesson, this virus is going to be transmitted. we handled it in new york and the nation learned nothing from that experience, frankly, we saw the spike, we set up testing, we set hospitalization, et cetera, five months later in many parts of this country you're just unprepared as you were on day one. and we know that if the virus is in california or texas or chicago and if it's not addressed it's matter of time before it gets to new york and new jersey and every other state and then you'll see just see a ping-pong of this virus all across the country until you have a national strategy. you can't -- new york cannot solve this. every state has to solve it, otherwise, we'll just give it back and forth to each other like family members passing a

bug among the family in one home, right, it's the same metaphor for the nation. >> governor, you said the hopkins study, another one i think a lot of parents paid a lot of attention to was i believe put out by the cdc late friday and it showed that at a georgia camp literally hundreds of children were infected and camp counselors and there's no denying that children spread the virus, there are now multiple studies that they carry as much virus load as adults even though donald trump keeps tweeting about kids being immuned. teachers not so much, while i would agree that some of the science about our kids is still evolving, kids are in danger, teachers are definitely in danger, what should new york state and new york city school reopening plan look like? >> yeah, look, i think the

federal officials the white house, dr. birx, the secretary, they're sending the exact wrong message, they've learned nothing in six months. they're saying the same thing about the economic reopening, just do it, just do it, it will be fine. don't just do it. it won't be fine. do it if you have the virus under control, do it if you have the safeguards in place. do it carefully and the same is true with schools. you shouldn't just reopen schools. unless we know the viral infection is under control in that part of new york, we have more testing than any other state. and then you need plan for every school district, every school, to have the testing in place, to have the protocols in place, i believe if we keep the virus down that we can reopen schools if we do it intelligently, the

same way we reopened the economy in this state, our economy's reopened, we phased it, we did it by science but we're reopened, that winds up being faster than the states that just rushed to reopen, nicolle, had no protections and now they have to close again, this was all predictable. it was all predictable and what's really frustrating we're replicating the mistake with schools that we made with the reopening. it's the exact same point and the white house is saying the exact same thing. just do it. it will be fine. it wasn't. look at the numbers. the numbers don't lie. >> i guess my question is more pointed, how could we consider opening schools even with a low infection rate if any teacher could be at risk of death or serious disease? and i don't know any parent who

wants their kids to be a part of an experiment into how this virus takes its toll on our children. >> well, look, here's the -- here's the problem in the quote/unquote new normal, there's no perfect answer, nicolle, if the virus is under control and if you have data that says it's under control and you have a smart -- >> is it under control in new york city? >> it is under control in new york city. our numbers across the state -- we have one of the lowest infection rates in the united states of america right now. it's incredible the turnaround, we're afraid of other states bringing in the virus, we have a quarantine for 14 days with 39 other states, right, so new york is really an anomaly right now. so our viral infection rate is very low, and if it stays there

the end of the week i'm going to say schools can reopen if they have a smart plan in place. the alternative is keep the schools closed and that also raises real problems, kids have been home for a long time, they lose socialization benefits i believe it really -- it really aggravates the division in our education system between the wealthy and poor households, food issues, et cetera, so closing schools is definitely problematic, but you're right, if you don't do it intelligently, you'll see the numbers jump. >> i guess that's my question -- the income disparity plays out in which schools can open safely, a small private school with 16 kids in a class can easily push the desks out, every public school even the nice ones

in new york will have a very hard time doing that, i mean, i guess i think what parents feel is despair with either decision, there's the despair of having your kids at home, missing out on not just socialization but i think for a lot of families school lunch, school breakfast, other services, but there's also the despair that people who need to go back to school the most are probably in the schools that are least likely to open fully. >> there's -- the plain truth, there's no perfect answer here. either way. neither answer is going to be without risk or without downside. that's the sad truth. by the way, say in new york, it's not really up to the school district it's not whup to what say, it's up to the parent. i want to make sure they have

all the information necessary and let them look at their school's plan, they'll have their school's plan, then they will decide. it's a tough decision either way. i fully agree with that. but that's the world that we are in today. i mean, that's reality. >> i want to ask you something sort offtopic and not in the news yet, something that i think about as a new yorker, how much of your day can you spend thinking about how to bring new york city back, i mean, you go to new york city and it's not the city that it was six months ago, and if everyone doesn't come back to school and that's not an equal situation for everybody, even more people i'm afraid would leave the city, as you said, we have the low infection rates, how much of

your time can you spend on new york's comeback? >> first of all, i took that idea on the baseball teams. we had the spring training -- >> what did they say? the league's about to fold. what did they say? >> look, i took the idea -- nicole, i shamelessly took the idea and i said, i offered to major league baseball, i said, play all your games here. we'll set up a protocol, have a quarantine hotel, we'll do the testing. i haven't heard back officially. but teams want to play in their own home city, their own home state. but you, long-term, you're right, we have a real job to do in new york city. it did take a terrible hit with the covid to begin with. we then had issues with looting, et cetera. there were crime concerns, it is going to be a long road.

i hoped up the new st. nicholas church is building back on 9/11. this is the only church that was on the 9/11 site was a greek church, st. nicholas, it was destroyed. and it's just now starting to really come out of the ground. know, god works in strange ways. i think he now has us rebuilding this church us that we have tak damage before, we have been hit, but we do build back. and we do build back better. and sometimes it's hard and it takes time, but st. nicholas church is coming back. new york is going to have issues. the first step is going to be controlling this virus, making sure the numbers don't come back. second step is, washington has to pass a fair bill in this session. this bill is everything, nicole. you know, every past cares act

bill was imperfect, grossly imperfect. they always said, well, don't worry, there's another one, there's another one. this is the last one. and if they don't make this bill right, frankly -- if they don't get it right, they shouldn't pass it. because it will be the last bill. and if this bill does not have funding for state and local governments, you're going to see a real economic recession. not just in new york, you'll see it all across this country. every economist says the economy doesn't come back if you starve state and local governments. the last thing you should be doing now is forcing state and local governments to lay off people. and that's republican economists, democratic economists. so if they do that, they would make a tremendous mistake. and rather than make a mistake, they should do nothing, is my advice to them. >> what are you doing to make sure that businesses and employers don't leave the state until some of this planning can

take place, companies that maybe say, i don't need high-priced real estate in the state of new york or in the city of manhattan, how do you -- i work for a governor who spent a lot of his time trying to get businesses to move to florida. how do you get businesses to stay in new york? >> yeah. i spend a lot of my time doing it also. the situation we have in new york city right now is not that they are leaving the state, but you've had a lot of businesses that have gone to now remote work, work-from-home for a number of months. a lot of businesses are saying, this isn't so bad. they're out on long island, in the hudson valley a little bit in connecticut. but they're more thinking about staying where they are, right? they went out to their retreat house or summer house or rented a property to get outside of the city during covid. and that sort of worked well. and now they're saying to themselves, and this is not just new york, it's all across the country, i think you're going to

see an economic transformation. some businesses are going to say, i don't have to bring 100 employees into the office every day. i can do it with them coming in two days a week or three days a week. so that's what we have to worry. in a place like new york city, where broadway is not going to be up and running, the great restaurants aren't going to be up and running, the big dinners are not going to be up and running, you'll see people staying in their second residences, i fear, in the outer ring, in the suburban ring. and they may be doing that longer. i think, ultimately, like post-9/11, where people said, we'll never go back to new york city. it's a terrorist target. i lived through that. new york city has a fundamental energy and cultural institutions and is a talent magnet. and that will win out at the end of the day. our challenge is to make sure

it's a short day and not a long day. >> as long as we keep working on getting all of baseball to come where it's safe and there are no infections, i could agree with you. governor cuomo, thank you for spending some time with us today. so much in the news. we're grateful for you taking the time. >> thank you, nicole. we were just talking with the governor about rising coronavirus cases in major league baseball and now new fears that the whole season might be in jeopardy. nbc's sam brock joins us now from marlin's park, where 18 players and two coaches have tested positive in the past week. sam, here's my question about the marlins. do they think this was sort of community spread like everyone else that has it, someone on the team was sick and then brought it and spread it or do they think this was something contracted on the road for that first weekend of games? >> reporter: nicole, good afternoon. the only thing that rob manford

has said so far on that note, they were able to trace down which individual brought it into the clubhouse. how it spread like wildfire is still part of the investigation. we have some breaking news for you. not from miami, where they've stabilized their outbreak, but from st. louis, nicole. we just found out 13 members of the st. louis cardinals organization have contracted covid-19 in the last week. that is seven players and six staff members. here's the problem. the marlins were one team. it was isolated to one team. every other team in major league baseball for the last several weeks until that point had been okay, but now the cardinals have seen an explosion of cases in their clubhouse. that's two teams now. and you talk to baseball writers around the league and they tell you, once you get to three or four, they'll have to shut down the season or strongly consider. we're now at two. we'll see a similar pattern with the cardinals player being quarantined and tested every single day, but their series against the tigers now postponed for the rest of the week. >> nbc's sam brock, thank you

very much for staying on this story for us, we're grateful. coming up, as the pandemic gets worse, president trump escalates his war on science. "deadline: white house" is next. e "deadline: white house" is next. and we'll replace your windshield with safe, no-contact service. >> tech: schedule at safelite.com. >> singers: ♪ safelite repair, safelite replace. ♪ find your get-up-and-go. find pants that aren't sweats. find your friends. find your sense of wander. find the world is new, again. at chevy we'd like to take you there. now during the chevy open road sales event, get up to 15% of msrp cash back on select 2020 models. that's over fifty-seven hundred dollars cash back on this equinox. it's time to find new roads, again.

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the big events are back and xfinity is your home for the return of live sports. hi, everyone. it's 4:00 in the east. with a country on the brink of pivotal decisions in the u.s. coronavirus outbreak, like when and how to get our kids back into the classroom and how to relieve the millions of americans devastated by the

economic catastrophe, gridlock in congress over desperately-needed economic relief, stories of lives upended by a broken economic system, an economic pain only intensified by the reality that the coronavirus curve in the united states is moving in the wrong direction, jumping by about 2 million cases in just the month of july. that is double the total of any other month since the outbreak began in this country. california, florida, and texas surpassing new york in total numbers of cases, with infections nearing a half a million each and the virus is picking up speed across the midwest, a region once hoped to be spared from the worst of it, as dr. deborah birx warns the united states is now in a new worst phase of the virus. >> what we're seeing today is different from march and april. it is extraordinarily widespread, it's into the rural, as equal urban areas, and to everybody who lives in a rural

area, you are not immune or protected from this virus. and that's why we keep saying, no matter where you live in america, you need to wear a mask and socially distance. >> this, the combined picture of the nearly unfathomable human toll, the economic ruin, and the lack of any sense that there's any federal plan to help us through it is what donald trump's failure looks like. he's now blown past his self-imposed deadline to unveil a national health care plan, and he's still tweeting blatant lies about the virus itself, attacking dr. birx for the first time for those comments we just played for you. claiming she, quote, took the bait and hit us. who's us? simply for warning that americans needed to take precautions. trump today also falsely suggesting that it's still mostly the blue state of new york responsible for the nationwide jouptick in cases an deaths, which is not true. new york is one of the only places not adding cases with low

infection rates and low spread. this weekend, he also slammed anthony fauci for testimony that he gave last week that the united states would have been better off if it had shut down more completely. it's all part of what's emerged as donald trump's sustained campaign against doctors and science and facts that according to an alarming report in today's "new york times" could have a devastating effect on what's wildly believed to be our best bet at bringing the pandemic to an end once and for all. that's the development of a vaccine. as scientists begin to sound alarms about influence from the trump administration, fearing the administration is now motivated not by the noble goal of saving lives, but by the prospect of delivering trump a political victory and saving his re-election prospects ahead of the election in november. "the times" reports this. quote, under constant pressure from a white house anxious for good news and a public desperate for a silver bullet to end the crisis, the government's researchers are fearful of political intervention in the

coming months and are struggling to ensure that the government maintains the right balance between speed and rigorous regulation. that's according to interviews with administration officials, federal scientists, and outside experts. experts inside and outside the government still say they fear the white house will push the fda to overlook insufficient data and give at least limited emergency approval to a vaccine, perhaps for use by specific groups, like frontline health care workers, before the vote on november 3rd. donald trump playing politics with medicine at an unprecedented moment of devastation in the u.s. coronavirus pandemic is where we start today. dr. vin gupta, global health policy expert and msnbc medical contributor is here, plus former democratic congresswoman, donna edwards is back, and associated press white house reporter, jonathan la mir, whose by line is on a bunch of big headlines this weekend. jonathan la mir, take me through anything i missed. donald trump is making his

defiance of the reality of the pandemic, both the human toll and the economic devastation a centerpiece of his re-election campaign and pouring everything into the hope of an october surprise in the form of a vaccine. if someone wrote that in a script, it would be over the top and ludicrous. nobody would believe it. >> well, first, nicole, allow me to congratulate you on the news that this show is expanding to two hours, from 4:00 to 6:00 every day. it's so well deserved and it's a good thing that so many of your guests can be, you know, verbose. >> thank you. >> in terms of the president -- you're very welcome. you deserve it. in terms of the president, you are right. what we've seen here is he's proceeding on a couple of different tracks with his eye squarely on his re-election battle. as indicated, throughout this pandemic, he has downplayed science. he has ignored the advice of hihis medical professionals.

he has tried to whistle past this, believing in the silver bullet, if you will, to bring this to a sudden close. that's certainly not the case. we're seeing the virus, of course, continuing to surge across the country. and for so long, yes, was it the northeast at the start? yes, it was. but since then, we have seen in the sun belt, texas, california, arizona, florida, we're seeing a disturbing rise in the midwest, states like ohio, wisconsin, indiana, and others. and the president and his advisers really are putting a lot of eggs in the basket of a vaccine, to be their october surprise. not just to help the country, but perhaps to save his re-election chances. and we're all rooting for that, of course. but it needs to be done, in terms of the development of vaccine, it needs to be done carefully. there's growing skepticism that corners may be cut, things may be rushed in order to allow the president to make this announcement, he hopes, before the election. and there's added pressure that the president and his team are applying here. and that's what we've -- my colleagues and i reported today. the election day, three months from today, but a lot of votes

are going to be cast between now and then. early voting is going to have, take historic numbers this year, particularly because so many people are nervous about going to the physical ballot box. there's going to be a real rise in mail-in voting, the very practice, of course, the president has been attacking. and so many of those votes will be cast in a month. there's added pressure from the president to try to force good news, not just about the vaccine, but to insist that the white house is handling this emergency, because he knows that voting is a snapshot in time. and even if there is an october surprise, that's too late, perhaps, to c'est him for all the voters who have cast their ballots weeks in advance. >> i don't even know where to start, vin gupta, in putting the inappropriate umbrella over all of this. a vaccine should be developed and made available as soon as it's ready to save lives, full stop. if that happens before october

and it happens to benefit donald trump, i don't think anybody cares. that said, all of the examples of donald trump ignoring science, they would start with him leaving a cruise ship off the west coast of this country, because he didn't want the infections onboard to mess with the numbers. then followed by him saying, anyone who wants a test can have one, when you still can't get a test with a result in less than 8 to 14 days, that would mean anything to most people. there are still rampant spread -- there are still people who won't put masks on. i mean, how out of whack is the president's focus here? >> you nailed it, nicole. this is about an issue of focus, because people are scared. parents, teachers, school districts, they're scared. not to mention the broader american public about what does this mean as we enter the fall flu season. we don't have the right focus. you nailed it. and i showed this last time and i'm going to show it again,

because people really responded to it. point of care testing, i'm not going to show the name of the company, but it's so easy and we need to scale the right type of testing for schools and for workplaces. you stick something into your nose and you put it in here. i'm simplifying it, but you get the picture here. in 20 minutes, you get a readout and you know with the quality of lab-based test if you're positive, if you're negative. if we had that focus from the top back in march, we wouldn't now be just talking about a $250 million investment in these types of devices, which is a start, but it's not the scale we need. we a $100 billion investment in these types of devices for every school district, for every workplace, for every university. because there is not enough of these guys -- i'll show you another prop here, n95 masks or surgical masks to go around. right now there isn't. what we need here is testing, point of care testing, proper testing.

we're having deaths continue to spike since the beginning of july. it's been on a steady uptrend. for your viewers, go to covidtracking.com, a good source of truth on data. while testing numbers, not the right type of numbers, but testing numbers have declined in the past month. we actually had a peak in testing on july 24th. we have had a sustained decline. deaths are increasing, testing is decreasing, that's a recipe for disaster. >> let me follow up with you. so donald trump -- just say that again, we're testing fewer people, but the death rates are going up. does that lead you to believe from the data that the numbers of infections are just undiagnosed? just explain what that means. >> absolutely. so we know two things. we know that for every confirmed case of covid-19, there is likely, and this is cdc data, there's probably ten undiagnosed cases of covid-19. it's why you had situations like you had in georgia, where a camp

had to get shut down because there was a massive outbreak within just a few weeks, even though everybody came with a test that was supposedly negative. that's number one. and number two, a metric we don't talk enough about, nicole, is the number of tests per confirmed cases. if i go out and test 12 individuals, i'm going to hit one confirmed case. that's where we're at. 12 tests to get one positive hit. countries that have done this right, largely speak welcome south korea, australia, they have to test 270 individuals before a confirmed hit. that means, one, we still too narrowly test. as an icu doc, i still have not been required to get a test. i've been caring for these patients for six months. that's one. number two, we just don't have enough testing. we have way more testing. an analysis by "the new york times" suggests that 40 states are well below their target for testing. it's not just number of tests, but it's the right type of test, point of care test. >> donna, there's so much to unpack here from jonathan's

reporting, from dr. gupta's insights here into the real truth around the pandemic, but i want to show you something. this article, everyone should read it. it's the "new york post" -- "the washington post" reporting over the weekend about if running pouf employment benefits, the larger theme being the economic calamity that is this country right now on its sixth month of a pandemic. garrett haake was on in the last hour saying that chuck schumer came out and said he's just trying to -- just beginning to understand the other side. i don't think there should be two sides when there is rampant food insecurity from people who had big jobs with benefits six, seven months ago. i mean, why isn't there more, hair on fire, urgent action in washington to help people who are just slipping, pouring through the cracks? >> yeah, you know, nicole, i don't really understand the lack of urgency.

i mean, you know, my hair was on fire when i heard the first several headlines that you did in today's opening. and of course, after hearing dr. gupta, i want to close my door and lock myself in from now until i don't even know when. and i think that, you know, what is happening here is that even before the pandemic, millions of families who got up and had workers who got up every single day and went to a job still were living paycheck to paycheck, unable to meet the rent at the end of the month, juggling the rent and the grocery bills and the day care expenses. and now we have a circumstance where millions more are unemployed. there is no prospect more them going back into an economy that simply doesn't exist for jobs that aren't really there now, because the economy can't fully open up, because this administration has not really had a plan or a strategy to

either open up the economy, deal with this pandemic, and get the country going again. and i think that, i don't know. i know that i have a family members, and know people who are on unemployment, for whom that $600 has been a lifeline, that enables them to continue to meet their expenses. and i think, i don't know how long the food lines have to get before, particularly, republicans in congress really see that and say, we're going to come to the negotiating table and we're going to hammer out a deal for the american people. and it really is tragic. and we're going to start to see if we haven't already and hear some very, very tragic stories of americans who are losing their homes, who are not able to make their expenses, and for whom shelter i don't even

have that kind of bed space available. we are reaching a very, very scary point, and it's come to the point, nicole, where it's not a worldwide pandemic, it's a united states pandemic, and we are not doing anything to address it and to get it under control. >> jonathan la mir, we put the headline up, ten bucks left, no place to go. how the pandemic and a broken unemployment system are upending people's lives. is donald trump's inaction, what is it? is it a tacit admission that he really doesn't see himself as the president of anyone who's struggling economically? what -- i understand the muscle memory to do nothing in congress. no offense, donna edwards, but i do not understand donald trump with potentially facing criminal prosecution. i mean, we understand why he's such a lunatic about being re-elected and delegitimizing the vote and doing all that he does. why doesn't he see the economic

despair, why doesn't he see fixing that the same way he sees operation warp speed? >> there are a few things at play, nicole. first of all, just on, i guess, what you would call a human level, the president has always struggled in terms of shoemwing empathy to his fellow americans who are having a hard time. we know that's not his strong suit, whether it's people who have become victims of hurricanes or wildfires, mass shootings, and today, i believe is the anniversary of the one in ohio and texas. and of course, now, this. the pandemic and its resulting economic crisis. he also right from the beginning has tried to -- you mentioned warp speed, which he is deploying, the weight to have the federal government to try to develop this vaccine. but in so many other ways, he's been very deferential from the states about testing and supplies. really put the onus on these governors. we remember those clashes with the democratic governors that defined in march and april in terms of the response to this

pandemic and i think that is still how he is viewing this now. a lot of this he sees as not quite his problem. that's what his critics say. and certainly now, he has talked about trying to use perhaps some sort of executive authority on unemployment, not sure what that means and certainly the white house's preference is to have a deal be worked out in congress, but it hasn't happened yet. and americans are suffering and it's only getting worse. and that "washington post" story you mentioned is purely heartbreaking and it shows just how widespread this is. and it's something that is not getting better. and we have seen even the -- some of the positive economic signs of a positive economic recovery have started to slow down. you know, there are countless americans right now who are really having a hard time. and that's not even counting those who have, of course, been sick and lost a loved one. and right now, it seems like the president is not only not accepting responsibility, was flailing with a response with his focus being on a re-election, and not always trying to improve the lives of

his voters. >> one more story i want to get to with dr. gupta and donna. you know who else has mass vaccination planned for october, dr. gupta? russia. the announcement raised concerns that russia would begin inoculations and declare themselves winners in the race for a vaccine without fully testing its product. what happens in a country like russia that makes this possible and is donald trump taking his cues on vaccines from just a purely science and speed standpoint, based on what you've seen? >> unfortunately, this operation warp speed and that headline you just mentioned out of russia concerns me because it's going to give fodder to the anti-vaxers out there. the biggest risk we have is we undermine the whole concept of vaccination because we have shoddy science or are trying to do things on an accelerated timeline without demonstrating

efficacy and safety. and that's the whole point of a phase iii trial. phase i, is it safe? phase ii, amongst a hundred individuals, is there some degree of efficacy against covid-19? phase iii, let's prove it with tens of thousands of individuals. but the rub here, nicole is, how are those individuals that get a vaccine candidate, are they expoe exposed intentionally, to do it right, you have to do it scientifically. i worry about the ethics of accelerating this on that type of timeline out of russia. are they intentionally exposing individuals? is there informed consent. but more broadly, we don't do this right, we'll give fodder to people who don't believe in vaccines. we need to be careful. >> donna, that's dr. hotez's concern, too, that all of the disinformation around all hoff these really emotional debates ends up endangering the very people that they're supposed to protect. let me ask you about one more headline. dr. gupta mentioned it.

the cdc put out a study late friday that included a case study at a georgia camp, where i think 270 kids were infectied. i think in one study, it shows that children carry a larger virus load or as large as a virus load as adults and we know that adults can catch it and lose their lives. where do you see the school debate right now? >> well, i mean, i think it's very problematic. i know if i were a parent of a school-aged child right now, i would be very, very wary of sending my child into a school where there is not testing, where the capacity of the school to do social distancing is not great. and where it jeopardizes potentially the health, not just of the children and the teachers, but also all of the staff who work at these schools.

and going back to their own homes and not being able to do contact tracing, because the school and the range of reach is so great. i'm very, very concerned about this. and also, nicole, concerned about this conflation of the politics with the vaccine and the potential efficacy of a vaccine. we already, as dr. gupta said, have enough problem getting parents to fully vaccination natal their children for common diseases like, you know, measles and mumps, and we don't need to introduce another vaccine, with the problems that dr. gupta outlines could potentially happen. >> dr. vin gupta, jonathojonath mir, donna edwards, thank you all so much. when we come back, will we finally get a peek at what trump has spend years trying to hide.

this afternoon, investigators in new york taking a step that suggests they may be closing in on fraud inside trump world. and the candidate spreading fears and lies around mail-in voting that could cost him in essential early voting states. plus, why wouldn't anyone want an ambitious woman as joe biden's number two? we'll get into that debate, coming up. er two we'll get into that debate, coming up. >> tech: we'll fix it right with no-contact service you can trust. >> tech: so if you have auto glass damage, stay safe with safelite. >> singers: ♪ safelite repair, safelite replace. ♪

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as the legal fight over donald trump's taxes continues, the deeper the investigation into his financials seems to be getting. a new filing by manhattan

district attorney pcy vance reveals that his office is looking into possible bank zmurand insurance fraud by his company. it comes as vance continues to argue that the president must comply with the subpoena for eight years of his taxes. at the same time, we're also learning that the longtime personal banker of donald trump and his son-in-law, jared kushner at deutsche bank, a woman by the name of rosemary rablick, is under internal investigation for a real estate deal she made in 2013 with a company partly owned by kushner. both trump and kushner were her clients at the time, and through the years, she has loaned them hundreds of millions of dollars for various projects. joining us now, senior columnist for bloomberg opinions, someone who has been following trump's money for years, tim o'brien. let's separate the stories. take me through the first one first. the cy vance looking into a broader sort of scope of an investigation that looks at bank and insurance fraud.

that sounds like what michael cohen seemed to be hinting at when he testified before congress on his way to prison and i know they shared notes. what do you think this is about? >> well, i think this one is 100% michael cohen as one of the -- you know, every prosecutor and investigative reporter, nicole, really relies on an insider guiding them through the woods. very little of the stuff is de novo in the end. it's inside sources. and i would expect that michael cohen is a key source in this. he said in his congressional testimony that donald trump's chief operating officer, matthew calamari, yes, trump's chief operating officer's name is calamari. his accountant, essentially, allen weisselberg, and ron lieberman and other executives all had knowledge of trump routinely inflating the value of his assets in order to get bank loans and insurance policies. this came up in our litigation

with him. he sued me after i provided evidence in a book that he spent decades inflating his wealth and assets. it wasn't just a game he used to get attention, but it was a tool he used to get bank loans, and you are not allowed to misrepresent yourself to bank and insurers if you want money from them. clearly, cy vance said in court today that they're looking into the possibility of criminal fraud around those things. the shoe that's dropping here is we are now in the wake of the supreme court saying that trump can't withhold his tax returns from a prosecutor. so his tax returns are in play. but also, the other thing that's in play here, nicole, is this will probably go beyond the election this fall. and if he's -- if he doesn't get re-elected, some of the protections of the presidency are going to fall away and he's going to have to face these prosecutors without that armor around him. this is a very significant development. >> let me ask you about the other story in the news and

that's that his banker at deutsche bank, where there's been so much smoke for so many years is now under fire internally, under investigation. >> donald trump had billions of dollars of loans in the early 1990s, and after that, no major bank would deal with him. the predecessors to banks like citigroup, jpmorgan chase, et cetera. the bank that continued to do business with donald trump was deutsche bank, they continued doing business with him even after he litigated in the mid-200 mid-2000s. deutsche bank has had myriad problems over the years including money laundering and other issues that has gotten them in trouble with regulators in europe and the united states. they have been trying to clean up their act in recent years. and what's come to the forenow is that the kushners and trump's private banker, deutsche bank was with a number of colleagues buying apartments from the

kushners. that's not an arm's length transaction. it raises questions about whether she was conflicted in terms of any business dealings that she did with trump and the kushners. so that's being explored internally at deutsche bank now. and that private banking operation is a potential powder keg. if she has to begin to provide evidence or testimony regarding work she's done for trump and kushners, it is going to unlock a pandora's box for both of those families. >> these are hard stories to tell. tim o'brien, you help us make sense of them better than just about anything. thank you so much for spending some time with us. i'm really grateful. up next, election day is closer than you think and the struggling and anxious trump campaign is now scrambling to revamp, if it isn't already too late to do that. that's next. y too late to do that. that's next. an army family who is always at the ready. so when they got a little surprise... two!?

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the presidential election may officially be three months from today, but many ballots will be cast much sooner than that, as voters take steps to avoid the dangers of in-person voting during a pandemic. with the days dwindling and the pressure mounting, trump's campaign is now assessmenti ina reset. with the president unable to hold traditional rallies, campaign officials are scrambling to assemble a fresh case for his candidacy on the fly, after a six-day pause in advertising, new ads targeting

democratic rival joe biden are set to begin airing monday. those ads will air in north carolina, georgia, florida, and arizona. all key early voting states. joining our conversation, pulitzer prize winning "washington post" columnist, eugene robinson, "new york times" editorial board member, mara gay, and former top state department official, rick stengel. mara gay, let me start with you. i have worked on winning presidential campaigns, losing presidential campaigns, and one that kind of ended in a tie on election day, until the supreme court got involved. and you are never, ever, ever, ever in a good spot, one when you stop everything to re-evaluate. and two, when all your ads are up in states you won last time. this is a campaign not on the offense anywhere, only on the defense. >> absolutely. and it's something that you feel on the ground, as well. i was visiting family in michigan just a few weeks ago,

and you can sense true disgust over the pandemic. and actually, just last week, i believe, that the news came that the president is essentially pulling out -- his campaign has pulled out of michigan or is just about doing so. you know, they're having to defend their home territory in places like georgia and texas. that's not where you want to be, as you know, nicole. it means, as well, just practically speaking, that you're spending money where your opponent doesn't have to. so it puts joe biden in a really strong position tactically. the irony, really, is that the president has focused as he always has, at the beginning on himself, but the best thing he could do for his re-election is actually face the pandemic and the suffering that americans are going through headon. he's decidedly not doing that, nor is he capable of doing so. so there's time, but it's still hard to see how he's going to turn this around.

>> so, eugene, i got a little bit of reporting about that, you know, weak, pathetic attempt at a pivot, i guess, i don't know, ten days ago, he went out and tried speaking to those of us living in reality about the pandemic. a campaign adviser conceded that that was designed to stabilize his poll numbers among his supporters, because they were at the time in free fall. so what mara is suggesting will never happen. trump won't act empathetic or in command of covid, because he doesn't feel empathetic or interested in commanding the pandemic. where does that leave us? >> well, it leaves his campaign in trouble. now, the biden campaign, if they were to ask me for advice, i would tell them that they are foolish if they don't run hard through the finish line. i mean, they -- you know, a campaign that assumes this far ahead of an election that it's,

you know, all over, and we've got this wrapped up is a campaign that's setting itself up for a very nasty surprise. that said, it ain't that early anymore. there are three months until the election and it is time, if he's willing -- if trump is going to move the needle, it's time for him to move the needle, and it's hard to see how he can when he makes absolutely no attempt to broaden his coalition, to attract new voters. all he does is drive wedges and drive potential voters away with his -- with, we know what with -- with all the stuff that he says and does. so he's left with his base. and he may well have helped stabilize the free fall among his supporters, but, when you add it up right now, it's not enough to get elected. so he's once again in a position

of having kind of an inside straight flush, it looks like, and get all the states that are up for grabs. and when you're defending states that you won pretty comfortably last time, you're kind of in a world of hurt. >> yeah. i mean, look, as if on cue rick stangl, we started donald trump's poll numbers and the white house has darkened behind us under what looks like some heavy winds. i want to ask you about the map because this adviser all but conceded that states like mara mention are out of reach, but they're most worried about arizona. that even arizona looks like it might be difficult for donald trump this time. that is both good and daunting for joe biden, who runs the risk of trying to play in too many places. how do you think he plabalances this in the last hundred days.

>> i don't know where trump goes if he loses wisconsin, pennsylvania, and michigan. where are the states he's going to turn around in the win column that he lost last time. i do think that as mara said and gene said. when you're battling in your own territory, that is a bad sign. and i agree with gene that biden has to go for hell bent the whole time. but to have a sad and pessimistic note, more and more, it seems to me that donald trump's campaign strategy is to delegitimize the election. it's not to win the election. all he has been talking about, he's not presenting a resume for re-election. all he's doing, he seems to be

expending most of his energy trying to delegitimize the election. that's something we all have been to be cognizant of, all the time. >> all right. no one is going anywhere, because coming up next, the biden campaign reportedly still very much in the deliberative phase of their vice presidential search, but is drawing out the process a good idea for him. that's next. process a good idea for him. that's next. my life. when i refinanced with sofi, that allowed me to pay off aggressively and save without breaking my back

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biden is preparing to narrow his search for vice presidential running mate, as nbc news reports he's expected to hold one-on-one meetings with a finalist, pushing his decision out likely one more week, but this delay coupled with still-large unknowns surrounding who the remaining contenders are has created a situation some biden allies are describing as, quote, messier than it should be. "washington post" writes that the delay is quote intensifying the jockeying and lobbying between allies of the women who hope to join his white house. even some longtime biden allies worry the process is -- has become messier than it should be, pitting women, especially black women, against one another. eugene, mara, and rick are all back with us. mara, on both of those points, obviously, joe biden being deliberative is a welcome contrast to the current occupant of the oval office, with some echos to his very popular former occupant of the white house,

president obama. but this is different. and this feels different. and i'm sure the enlightenment will understand why this feels different. saying it's going to be a woman made it different there. looking at how the committee, which includes a lot of, again, no offense to present company, white men on it, leak out some of their recommendations, i think, has rubbed all women the wrong way. what's your take on where this is and again, joe biden isn't guilty of that. these are some of the people on his committee. how can joe biden do all the right things from today forward? >> yeah, i mean, the problem is, it's a little bit inside baseball, but as someone who's kind of in the political world, it is frustrating, because what you have is, you have a situation where joe biden, his folks kind of leak or do a soft float of a name, like

representative karen bass or kamala harris and then it seems like the entire political world or the entire democratic establishment and media have to kind of weigh in on all of the problems or potential pitfalls with that candidate. so you just have a bunch of women who are potential running mates being dragged through the mud, unable to really respond or have their chance to kind of say their piece. and it's not what you want. this is also not a story line that americans, i think, are very interested in right now. they're very concerned with the pandemic, with unemployment. the story that joe biden really wants me telling is that he has the right running mate who he feels comfortable with, but he has a vision for america that people can believe in. and also that he can just allow donald trump to dig his own political grave. that's the story that he wants, not that he can't make a decision or that his team is constantly leaking the names of women, whose names are being sullied in the mud. it's an unforced error.

>> and dare i say, only a woman would be sullied with the insult that she's ambitious. here's senator kamala harris on just that. >> my mother, again, she had manysati sayings, one of them, told me years ago, honey -- and i'm saying this to all of you young leaders -- people will be fine when you take what they give you, but oh, don't take more. and so i say that to say, there will be a resistance to your ambition. there will be people who say to you, you are out of your lane. >> you gene, i seugene, i say t, but an ambitious woman with male parts is called a rising star in the future of his party. what is this insult about? >> first of all, i don't know, among the women who are being

vetted as potential vice presidential candidates, and i think i know them all, i don't know one who's not ambitious, okay? they're all ambitious. that's how they got where they are. and i think that's insulting. and inappropriate, to say the least. that said, you know, how quickly joe biden chooses his vice presidential nominee is a data point that matters more to inpatient political reporters and columnists than it does to anybody else. and we don't remember how long it took barack obama to choose joe biden, how long it took donald trump to choose mike pence, nor will we remember it took joe biden to choose his eventual running mate. and as for the names being dragged through the mud, i think biden ought to tell his sort of

rump committee to shut up and enforce that. and let them know that in no uncertain terms. but any sort of oppo that is being tossed around is going to get tossed around anyhow. i could argue that it's better to have it tossed around now than until the selection is made. >> rick stengel, i think that that's probably mostly right, but i do think women are watching. and i do think that joe biden can make this go away based on how and when he make s his announcement, but women are watching. and joe biden can't afford to depress any enthusiasm among any element of his coalition. and i want to tell you how i understand the trump campaign is looking at this pick. this is about one night, one night of tv to donald trump. it's about the debate against mike pence. and i think on the republican side, granted, we don't know,

republicans are people, former republicans, look at this field, and certainly val demings who a very prominent role in the impeachment, has shown herself to be someone who could very ably debate mike pence. but kamala harris is the only person in either party to have dismantled bill barr in public in a hearing. i mean, it just seems like if what the trump campaign is prepared for is protecting mike pence from that vp debate and the final days and weeks, she would seem like someone who would at least be on the short list, no? >> absolutely. i think that's right. i mean, as you know better than anybody, you know, the first traditional rule of selecting a vice president was the hippocratic oath, first do no harm, and it tends to be a more limiting perspective. biden has already obviously said he's choosing a woman candidate, which i think is an asset, and i think a guy who is leading in

the polls, i mean, why not, you know, go for the fences and have somebody not that's going to do you no harm, but somebody who is going to help you. i'm sure they're looking at it that way. oftentimes, conservative choices have backfired, so let them choose somebody who is really going to move the ball over the plate for them. >> rick stengel, eugene robinson, mara gay, it's a difficult conversation. thank you all for having it with me and with us. >> when we come back, honoring a life well lived. awarded for network quality 25 times in a row. then, give people more plans to mix and match, so you only pay for what you need. verizon's unlimited plan is so reasonable, they can stay on for the rest of their lives. include the best in entertainment and offer it all starting at $35. plus, $700 off our best phones when you switch. because everyone deserves the best. the is unlimited built right.

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we, you know, said our i love yous and knew that that was the last time that we were going to talk until this was done one way or another. >> derrick williams should have been celebrating his 55th birthday last week. instead, you heard right there from his fiancee, derrick died of the coronavirus after ten days spent in the icu. he was an air force veteran, he did charity work, and he was an unstoppable force of positive energy in obstacle course races up and down the west coast. according to the nbc affiliate in san diego, one of derrick's favorite things to do at his beloved spartan races was to

find the slowest person, the person in last place that day, and then stay with them and encourage them to finish. probably a life lesson in that, don't you think? maybe next time you see someone struggling, stay with them. and keep derrick in your thoughts. thank you for watching, and letting us into your homes in these extraordinary times. our coverage continues with the fabulous katy tur right after a quick break. break.need with less of the sugar you don't. [grunting noise] i'll take that. woohoo! 30 grams of protein and 1 gram of sugar. ensure max protein. with nutrients to support immune health. ensure max protein. walk to end alzheimer's alzheis everywhere.tion all of us are raising funds for one goal: a world without alzheimer's and all other dementia.

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stressful. we don't even hav