people already trying to stay safe during the pandemic. here are the facts at this hour. governors from north carolina to maine are working feverishly to make sure those needing shelter don't contract the virus. people already sick with covid or showing clear symptoms are being taken to separate shelters for isolation and medical attention. nationally, the covid-19 cases continue to rise. the u.s. now has 4.7 million confirmed cases and more than 157,000 deaths. president trump claims the virus is receding across the south and west while saying the white house task force is focusing on new flareups in georgia, mississippi, okuzono hideay okl tennessee, and missouri. but the president is under new scrutiny for what he said in a new interview with jonathan swan for axios taped last night, when he was asked about downplaying the death toll.

>> they don't listen to me or the media or fauci. they think we're fake news. they want to get their advice from you. so when they hear you say everything is under control, you don't have to wear masks, many of these are older people, it's giving them a false sense of security. >> right now i think it's under control. >> how? a thousand americans are dying a day. >> they are daiying, it's true, and it is what it is. but that doesn't mean we're not doing everything we can. it's under control as much as you can control it. >> it's under control as much as you can control it. joining me now, nbc white house correspondent and "weekend today" co-host kristen welker and former obama white house communications director jennifer palmieri, offer the new book "she proclaims." welcome, both. kristen, that interview almost an hour, extraordinary. the president still saying it's under control. we'll show you more of it in a moment. it just defies the reality.

>> it defiles the realies the r andrea, and it goes against what the president's top doctors are saying, dr. anthony fauci, dr. deborah birx, who have said the opposite, who have said that this is surging across the country and that what is required right now is increased vin vigilance and an increased adherence to the measures that they have laid out that they feel are necessary to combat this virus. that includes of course wearing face masks, social distancing. dr. anthony fauci saying that he does support opening schools but that it needs to happen in a safe and secure way. it comes against the backdrop of a complicated situation for president trump, just 31% of americans say they trust what president trump has said about the coronavirus. and republicans, when it comes to republicans, 53% say they do not trust dr. anthony fauci. now, as it relates to president

trump, of course he is facing a tough reelection campaign. right now he is trailing in the polls to former vice president joe biden. and his aides and allies say to me he is going to be judged on his response to this crisis. so a lot of scrutiny right now, andrea, on his words and actions. >> exactly. and jen palmieri, i want to focus on what particular exchange in the axios interview, about how the president views the virus. take a look at this. >> the figure i look at is death. and death is going up now. it's a thousand a day. >> if you look at -- >> it's going up again. daily death. >> take a look at some of these charts. >> i would love to. >> we're going to look. >> let's look. >> if you look at death, here is one -- >> starting to go up again. >> right here, the united states is lowest in numerous categories, uh, we're lower than the world. >> lower than the world? where is that?

>> lower than europe. >> in what? in what? >> take a look, right here. here's case death. >> oh, you're doing death as a proportion of cases. i'm talking about death as a proportion of population. that's where the u.s. is really bad, much worse than south korea, germany, et cetera. >> you can't do that. >> it's surely a relevant statistic to say if the u.s. has x population and x percentage of death of that population versus -- >> no, you have to go by the craze. >> look at south korea, 300 deaths, it's crazy. >> you don't know that. >> i do. >> you don't know that. >> jen, you've been in the oval office, you've briefed presidents. i have to ask myself, what chief of staff is permitting people to give him graphs that reinforce his misleading statements? why aren't they trying to reel him back into the reality of this? >> i think the only people that are left besides, you know, the good doctors that advise them, are people that tell him what he

wants to hear. and he treats everything based on how it reflects on him. when jonathan swan asked him those questions, it was clear he had never been presented with information because he will only accept information that value daylights t validates that he's doing a good job. it would help him politically as well as being a good thing to do and help the country. but he's so stubborn, he won't give in. >> and in the last couple of days, kristen, monday's briefing, the president was asked about dr. deborah birx, and he thought that the nation was doing very well, only hours after sending that tweet where he called her characterization of the virus and how it is breaking out elsewhere and particularly in rural area, we're entering a new phase, "pathetic." so he's even now rejecting her advice after praising her throughout. >> it was the first time we saw him really break with dr. deborah birx. he did it on twitter, then when

he was asked about this back and forth during that briefing yesterday, he tried to soften his tone and say that he has great respect for dr. deborah birx. but again, andrea, it underscores the fact that you're getting a different message from the president and from his top doctors and that is potentially adding to the confusion when it comes to how americans should be thinking about this virus and how they should be thinking about the critical steps that they need to take in order to combat this virus. and that is what is causing so much concern, frankly, within the administration, that there is this focus on infighting and messaging instead of a focus on the real need to know steps in order to move forward, particularly as we enter the fall where you are going to start to see schools reopen slowly across the country, where you're going to potentially see what top doctors have braced for and said is a need to brace for a potential resurgence in some areas of this virus, andrea.

so again, it calls into question the leadership that the president has on this issue. now, he's been having those daily briefings in part to combat the criticism that he hasn't been out front on this issue. you notice that his briefings have been more concise, more on message, but certainly this intrafighting with his top doctors, some of his own advisers feel, is undercutting his messaging, andrea. >> and it's hurting americans who need to know what to believe. and clearly that confusion is spreading. finally, i just wanted to point out that the president was asked about john lewis by jonathan swan and take a look, jen, at the way he responded. >> how do you think history will remember john lewis? >> i don't know. i really don't know. i don't know john lewis. he chose not to come to my inauguration. he chose, uh, i don't, i never met john lewis, i don't believe.

>> do you find him impressive? >> uh, i can't say one way or the other. i find a lot of people impressive, i find many people not impressive. no -- >> do you find his story impressive? >> he didn't come to my inauguration. he didn't come to my state of the union speeches. and that's okay. that's his right. and again, nobody has done more -- >> right. but -- >> -- black americans than i have. >> jen palmieri, it's all about him. >> i mean, no matter what the topic is, it's all a reflection of him. i had forgotten john lewis was one of the first leaders in congress to say he would not go to his inauguration. and it's all he cares about. it's not complicated with this guy, right? we look for deeper meanings but all he cares about is how does it reflect on me and how does this person give me the respect i think i deserve regardless of the 60-year incredible history that john lewis had as a leader in civil rights.

>> jen palmieri, author of "she proclaims" and kristen welker, our colleague at the white house, thank you so much. dr. peggy hamburg is the former commissioner of the food and drug administration during the obama administration and joins me now. i want to get your reaction to the president saying it is what it is and it's under control. >> it's just so deeply sad ha. and it's also terrifying, because this is a time when we need national leadership than ever before. it is bad. it will get worse. but we can start to turn this around. but we need national leadership. we need to engage and address the critical issues before us. we cannot do what the president unfortunately is so good at doing, trying to blame someone else, china or governors or even his own scientists, trying to

deflect and distract with other crises, or engaging in sort of wishful thinking that it will just miraculously go away or it isn't so bad or there will be a miracle cure. you know, we are in the midst of the worst biological crisis in a century, the worst pandemic since the great flu pandemic. and to have this coming out of the white house, you know, we just can't say it is what it is. we have to act. >> and the effect of this is that in our latest surveymonkey poll, 53% of republicans do not trust dr. fauci. and that maybe explains why you have republicans parading around the halls of congress and sitting in hearings last week without masks. >> well, you know, we really do need to find a way to not let

politics interfere with good policy and public health. we know now very clearly from our own experience and that of other countries that there are interventions that can make a difference. you just have to compare us to other countries that have grappled with coronavirus, this coronavirus and covid-19. china, taiwan, south korea, japan, italy, germany. they all had significant burdens of disease but they were able to turn that around. and they've had small surges, but small enough to be able to get them under control. we on the other hand are going the wrong direction. and we need to learn from experience and we need to be committed to aligning science and public health with our apologies and programs at every level. >> dr. hamburg, you've joined

with three other for the record fda commissioners in writing an op-ed in saying that plasma, convalescent plasma could be a key to treatment. how far along are we in those trials? >> let me clarify why i signed on to that, which is to say we need to pursue all promising treatments and therapies, but we need to do the science. and there's a lot of focus on convalescent plasma at the moment, the idea of using blood from people who have been infected and their bodies have mounted an immune response, to help other patients be protected, potentially, against infection or serious disease. but while people have been receiving convalescent plasma, the controlled, quality studies to really get answers about whether it works and for whom haven't been done. so we need to move forward, we need to keep exploring this potential important treatment that there's evidence to suggest

it has benefits, but we have to do the studies to know whether it works, for whom, and when in the course of disease. >> instead of pushing hydroxychloroquine, perhaps. >> right. >> dr. peggy hamburg, thank you as always, thanks for your expertise. and right now, tens of millions of americans from the mid-atlantic up to the canadian border are now under both a tropical storm warning and flash flood warnings as that fast-moving weather system rips through the eastern seaboard. isaias touched down as a hurricane overnight in north carolina. right now it's heading to new jersey. that's where we find nbc's ron allen. ron is i think in long beach, new jersey. ron, how are you? >> reporter: exactly, andrea. >> long branch. >> reporter: long branch, right. the storm is close to where we

are at this moment. the sky, as you can see behind me, it is very dark and very black. as bad as the wind has been, they're predicting gusts up to 70 miles per hour. the warnings of flash floods, and a tornado warning for all of new jersey for the next few hours. there are reports of at least two tornadoes touching down south of here, one near atlantic city. the jersey shore has been struggling to stay alive because of covid, and now this. it feels like the storm is hitting here and now, at this moment. the governor said that he would not be surprised if there are hundreds of thousands of power outages.

he has urged everyone to stay inside. it's going to be a quick hit. it seems to be picking up. back you to, andrea. >> thanks for putting up with that, ron, please get safe. run after your hat and get in out of the weather. as millions of parents try to decide whether it's safe to send their children back to school, one superintendent says he feels like there is a gun to his head to have in-person learning, even after he lost one of his teachers to the virus. i'll talk to him in a few moments. but first, the economic pain is growing. benefits have run out. when will congress act on the coronavirus relief bill? we'll have the latest on the negotiations, next, with new jersey senator robert menendez. i'm andrea mitchell on "andrea mitchell reports." hell reports."

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negotiations between the

democrats and the white house over a new coronavirus relief package are slow going, leaving 30 million americans hit hard by the economic impact of the coronavirus in limbo. the $600 boost in their weekly employment checks expired last week along with eviction protections for many renters and mortgage holders. nancy pelosi told her democratic house colleagues last night in a closed conference call there will be a deal, but the soonest she thinks the house will vote on anything is next week. republican senator john cornyn said the republicans seem a little less insulting than usual. that's a sign of progress? joining me is senator robert menendez who serves on the finance committee and is of course very worried about what's going on in his state of new jersey for covid. your constituents, people across america, are suffering, senator. there are talks but so little progress. senator mitch mcconnell isn't

even on the table and the republicans are clearly divided in the senate. what's going on there? >> they haven't been able to get their own act together. you have a president who is absent from any effort to cajole his own party members to come to an agreement. you have, according to senator mcconnell, the republican leader, 30 members of his caucus, over half of his caucus who say they will vote for nothing. and then senator mcconnell is not engaged in this. at the end of the day, you know, you have a negotiation going on between the speaker, senator schumer, the democratic leader, mark meadows, the chief of staff, and mnuchin, the treasury secretary. but there are critical ingredients here that should be at the table as well. what's amazing to me is that there is no sense of urgency by the republicans. and i think we get a sense of their view of this whole situation when they can provide in their proposals zero, for example, for food assistance, but go ahead and spend $3

billion on 100% credit for a three-martini lunch. >> senator, the house passed something that clearly the senate wasn't going to go for, $3 trillion, and it had state and local aid and other issues, including help for the postal service to try to get a fair election with mail-in ballots. the senate, as you say, has no sense of urgency. why have they waited all these months and now two weeks are expiring without any real action? isn't there some way, even among those senators who are in swing states and are up for reelection? >> it's unexplainable. let me just refine the statement. democrats in the senate have a sense of urgency. that's why 2 1/2 months ago, speaker pelosi and leader schumer sent a letter to the president and is to senator mcconnell saying, we're going to need more help for the american

people. a national emergency requires a national response. but for 2 1/2 months, we got crickets, we didn't hear anything. no response to that sense of urgency then. and now, we have the lack of engagement, of the robust engagement that is necessary to ultimately meet the challenge. i mean, look, it's exemplified by their leader, president trump. when he says it is what it is, that is the most cruel abdication of presidential leadership i've ever seen. >> what about the whole issue of mark meadows versus mnuchin? there are divisions among the republican senators, but the president and mark meadows are apparently pushing for an executive order to threaten to do this by executive order, and mnuchin not buying that. so that's one fault line. can he do it by executive order and appropriate money?

>> no. i mean, you know, this is not louis xiv. this is not "i am the state and therefore i can do whatever i want." it's still the united states of america. it's still a constitutional democracy. and there are clearly delineated powers. the president continues to say, i'll do it, i'll do it if they don't do it. no. show presidential leadership. get everybody in the room. get all the elements necessary. cajole your own members into voting. they're frightened of you when you threaten them in a primary. go ahead and use that power to get a solution for the american people. let's get the checks out to the american people. let's establish unemployment compensation that really can sustain a family. let's put food on the table for food insecurity. and let's help the states and municipalities that are facing huge shortfalls in red states as well as blue states at the end of the day and who would have to lay off those people who we need

the most in the midst of a pandemic. it would be the height of irony that public health employees, nurses, first responders, emergency management, all the people we've needed during the pandemic would be ultimately on the unemployment line instead of on the front lines of defense against the pandemic. and this is the lack of a national response and a national plan. and it is emblematic in how they're dealing with the crisis at this point as we seek to have a negotiation that can help the american people get relief. >> i want to ask you about new jersey because covid cases are rising. we've had a terrible outbreak with the rutgers football team. what are you seeing in new jersey now? we've seen pictures of young people partying, not only there, but we see young people partying as though there's no covid out there. >> you know, we went through an incredibly difficult time. i give a lot of credit to governor murphy who made very

tough decisions that were both personally for new jerseyians and financially consequential. but it dramatically brought the curve down. it started to make sure that the virus could not spread. it starved off the virus. and we were well under 1%. now, because we have young people, and i was that age once, you think you're invincible, that you're immune, but you're not. not only that, it's not only that you're not immune, but what you do to your parents, to your loved ones, to your friends, is just such an enormous risk to them. so getting that message across is incredibly important. but this, again, if we had a national statement, if we had a president who embraced from the very beginning the nature of the pandemic, instead of saying it is what it is, who understood that by standing up, wearing a mask, saying we're all in this together, we're going to get through it, but here's what we're going to have to do, who calls upon the sacrifice of the american people in order to end

the pandemic and have a better, brighter day tomorrow, we wouldn't be where we are today. that's unfortunately the reality that we're in. >> senator bob menendez from new jersey, it's a pleasure to have you, thanks very much for being with us today. appreciate it. and we have breaking news from lebanon. there has been a massive explosion, leaving an unknown number of people injured in beirut, in the harbor. and first responders scrambling. obviously this is one of the hotspots in the world. nbc news chief global correspondent bill neely is follow the latest from london. bill, you're seeing an incredible explosion. we don't even the cause, but obviously there could be any number of reasons for this. beirut has been the center of horrific terrorism in the past, there have been complicates with israel and hezbollah elements in lebanon in recent weeks, snin fact, but we don't know, this could be a complete accident. >> reporter: exactly right, andrea. the images, the videos, are

absolutely extraordinary. but as you say, the cause is unknown. from most of the videos that i've seen, there is -- first of all there's some kind of explosion or fire which causes a huge plume of gray smoke. and you can see just underneath the gray smoke, there are sort of secondary, minor flashes. now, we don't know what those are. and then suddenly there is something that people have described as like a mushroom cloud. and then a sonic wave that was heard and felt miles away just after that. we know this happened just after 6:00, the very latest is that the lebanese health minister is reporting a large number, and by that he means dozens, at least, of injuries. no deaths reported. from those images, it would be extraordinary if we didn't have

fatalities. we can also look at live pictures from beirut now, remember, this is the port area of beirut. night has now fallen. and there are still smoldering remnants of whatever caused that explosion. and once again, you know, millions of people heard and felt this explosion. but as you said right at the beginning, we still don't know what caused it. this is a time of tension in beirut for a variety of reasons. it's not obviously clear if it was a deliberate act, who on earth would benefit from something like this. and indeed the last major explosion of this kind was in 2005. by coincidence perhaps, perhaps not, this week on trial at an international tribunal in the hague, are four suspects from

the iranian-backed lebanon group hezbollah. they are accused of, in that explosion in 2005, killing the lebanese prime minister. that's the last time we saw a blast like this. but these videos today, andrea, just extraordinary. and again, we don't know what caused them. >> and of course hezbollah is now part of the lebanese government, part of the parliament, part of the negotiating, when secretary pompeo was there a year ago in march, march 19. thank you so much, bill neely, i know you'll stay all over this today. coming up, the back to school debate. some school officials are speaking out against their governors' plans to reopen schools in a matter of weeks. one school superintendent calls it a fantasy, he joins me next. stay with us. antasy, he joins mt stay with us aleve it. aleve is proven stronger and longer on pain than tylenol.

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arizona's governor doug ducey is insisting state schools open in two weeks. but the state superintendent, kathy hoffman, is pushing back, saying it's unlikely schools can open safely for in-person learning during a pandemic. her comments follow a searing column by the superintendent of a school district southeast of phoenix, calling the push to reopen schools a fantasy after a teacher at one of his schools died from covid-19. joining me now is the superintendent of the hayden winkleman unified school district in arizona. thank you very much, superintendent. governor ducey will be at the white house tomorrow meeting with the president. what would you like them both to know about your situation? >> well, we did lose a teacher, like you said. we had three teachers team teaching together. and they were using all the protective equipment. and they still got sick and passed it on to each other. so my concern is putting students into the equation is

going to -- i see it as -- i don't believe that we can keep the teachers and the students safe. my concern is they're going to bring it home to their families. and we have many grandparents living with their children today. and multigeneration families. and i am very worried for them. and i'm worried for all the teachers in arizona and throughout the united states. i just don't see how they can keep everybody safe in the middle of the spread that we have in our community but throughout america. >> tell me about kim byrd, the teacher you lost. she was 61 years old. i understand she was a very special teacher. >> we miss her very much. she was kind of like your quarterback on a sports team. she was the person we would go to when we had a challenging

situation, a student who is just not getting it. we went to kim for her advice, her support. and she was always willing to take time and talk to you about it. but she's also a friend. and everyone that you speak to would say the exact same thing. she was a true professional and a loss to our district. we're still grieving. we just haven't had a chance to even meet together, you know, zoom counseling sessions, that just really doesn't -- that isn't enough. but that's the time we're in right now. >> do you have a right to overrule the governor or what is your authority here, if you want to keep the schools closed for in-class learning? >> the issue is you risk losing funding to support your budget during this crisis, you lose --

you can risk losing the 5% that distance learning pays per student if you do distance learning compared to brick and mortar education, as they refer to it. so, that, plus we're going through a situation where we might lose students this year because one of our big employers has shut down a mine that employs 800 people in the local area. and so the governor is also providing security for budgets. if students don't come back, and we know that can happen with distance learning. so we could lose a lot more than that. so that's a concern. but we're hoping that he will allow the school boards to make

that decision. and that's what we would hope that he would reconsider. >> well, thank you very much. we're sorry for your loss and your concerns are profound and they're felt by parents and teachers and staff across the country. thank you very much, superintendent. we appreciate it. >> thank you for letting me share it. >> you bet. the people who can do something about this, at least help the state and local governments, are lawmakers. they, though, are haggling over the coronavirus relief bill. millions of americans are struggling with the economic crunch of the covid crisis. elena latin was held off from her job at a car dealership in may. she was just served an eviction notice at her texas home. she says she's applied for jobs but nothing has panned out. >> stressed. worried. i can't put it into words, i've never been in this position at all, ever. >> joining me now is shaun

donovan, former secretary of housing and urban development and the former director of management and mubudget in the obama administration and bob zoellick, his new book is "america in the world: a history of u.s. diplomacy and foreign policy." sean, first, we just heard from a single mother in texas, she got an eviction notice. there's going to be a 3:30 meeting among the negotiators but there are divisions on all sides. what about the housing instability that all of this is causing, and putting people out in the streets, potentially, having them move in with relatives, older relatives? we're spreading the virus, potentially, as these people are going to be evicted. >> absolutely, andrea. and it's great to be with you, great to see you again. look, we know shah nearly one in three americans these last few months is unable to pay their full rent or their full

mortgage. this is not just one person in texas. this is widespread across the country. and it is absolutely urgent. we just had an expiration of the federal moratorium on evix vive. there are many states that followed suit like texas and the benefits are expiring. we know, as you said, if someone is evicted, ends up in a homeless shelter, ends up overcrowded with relatives, they're putting themselves and their neighbors at risk of spreading the virus. so this is absolutely the wrong time to be pulling back on assistance. we need to continue to provide unemployment insurance and we need to do more on housing as well. >> bob, as someone who has led globally and also in previous administrations, what can

congress do as they are so divided right now, paralyzed, almost, even as both conservatives and more liberal, more progressive economists say this is the time to do something and get the economy going rather than cutting back on aid for these people because there are no jobs available? >> first, it's good to be with you, andrea, thank you very much for having me. i think for the reason that your report and shaun mentioned, the pressure will build here and it will build very fast. what's held it up in part is trump's style makes it unclear really who has got authority to negotiate at the white house level. and then his sinking polls have probably led to fragmentation on the republican side. so mcconnell in the senate has probably get less of an ability to get together his troops. however i think the election will force people to recognize they need to do something. but i think one other point i draw to your attention is that i

think the huge fiscal and monitor response that we had at the start misled some people. they kind of thought we were on the road to recovery. and what this incident should show is that was a bridge. it was a bridge to some rebuilding of confidence that's probably going to require vaccines and treatments but also as a country doing much better than we have, opening schools as opposed to bars. >> just to follow up on that thread, people thought that was it, even though it was trillions of dollars. but if we had responded better as a country with a national strategy on the pandemic, then perhaps there could be more reopening. but you're raising a larger cultural question, that bars and recreation seems to be more of a priority than worrying about schools, correct? >> well, i think the bigger question really starts from the top here, which is that we've had crises like this before. this is an extraordinary one both in terms of health and economics. you have to learn as you go.

nobody knows all the answers. but i am afraid that the president from the start has not really led as an executive. we saw problems of character and policy, but now we're just seeing in some ways the consequence. the good news is, you can see from the business community, from the stories you're telling, they'll act on this relatively soon. but my message is, this won't be the end. >> and shaun, i want to raise the issue of fair housing, because the president is talking about rousing fears in the suburbs and getting rid of the fair housing act. he repealed it, the fair housing rule that he claimed would lead to the disruption of the country's suburbs, real racial appeal there. to a suburban culture that has changed since the suburbs that

he's imagining. >> you're absolutely right, andrea. and at the very time that we're witnessing a pandemic that has exposed the deep racial divisions in the country. and as we know that housing and segregation in a neighborhoods is such an important part of what drives that systemic race optimism in this country. at that very moment, what our president is choosing to do is try to take the government back to a time when the government directly discriminated, when the government said black and brown folks can't move into so many neighborhoods by red lining them. and that is the kind of directly racist, backward-looking policy that unfortunately has become too familiar from this president. luckily, americans all over the country are seeing how important it is to take on these issues around systemic racism, how to really look at the issues that

keep black and brown folks out of too many neighborhoods. and that's exactly what this rule that i put forward during president obama's time did, it worked closely with mayors and tried to make sure that we were building not only neighborhoods that were more equal and inclusive in the suburbs, but looking at neighborhoods in our urban areas as well, where we have too many communities of color that are struggling with bad schools, lack of access to health care as we're seeing in this pandemic and lack of access to good jobs. so that's exactly what we meant to do. that's what we did with this rule. and that would take us forward in this country to fight racial discrimination. but this president is trying to take us backward with a racist policy. >> shaun donovan and boll zoellick who is the author of "america in the world," please come back and talk about the

book. it would be great to talk to you about how the world is looking at us right now with the way we're not leading on the pandemic. >> look forward to it. >> thank you so much. inside the oval office, a unique view of history, documenting two of our country's past presidents. the man behind these iconic presidential photos joining me next. you're watching "andrea mitchell reports" on msnbc.

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served as a fly on the wall for every step of ronald reagan's presidency and barack obama 's. the official white house photographer who has a documentary called "the way i see it" from focus features and msnbc. photojournalist and white house photographer pete souza spent years capturing two presidencies. eight years with barack obama. eight years with ronald reagan. >> i know what happens in the oval office. >> reporter: with behind the scenes access to highly classified meetings, ornate state dinners and presidential trips around the world. souza had a close-up view. there for the great events. reagan at the berlin wall. >> mr. gorbachev, tear down this wall. >> and for the tragedies. obama in charleston. ♪ amazing grace ♪

>> but he says his favorite photos were personal. human. unexpected. like when president obama went over so 5-year-old jacob philadelphia could touch his hair. his work serving as an intimate window into who the presidents were as fathers, husbands and friends. his pictures also reveal character. obama's competitiveness and pride over a blocked shot against his much younger and taller aide reggie love. and the enormous responsibility of being commander in chief. souza was in the situation room capturing the tension during the bin laden raid in 2011. joining me is pete souza, former white house photographer to two presidents, reagan and obama. pete, thanks for joining us. we love the pictures. thank you very much. i love the documentary. can't wait until it's actually out. it's in final cut. tell me about that situation room photo because, obviously, you had classified -- you had clearance.

there was no one else who even knew about this. so you were part of the incredible history. what was your reaction? >> well, it was probably one of the most tense situations that i had ever been in. you've got, you know, the most powerful people in the executive branch of our government all gathered in this room. and, really, they're powerless. their decision had been made in the days and weeks before. and now it's up to those special forces guys on the ground. i mean, i've talked to several of the people later about this photograph. and i said, what was going through your mind, and the word they all described was, tension. and i think you can see it etched on their faces. >> you captured that brilliantly. also, those moments which you -- that are so unexpected. you were at the u.n. some break time. and obama decides to play basketball with reggie love. reggie love had captained the

duke team. four inches taller and you captured that one frame. tell me about that. what was the president's reaction? >> you know, the one thing that people may not realize about president obama, he's like the most competitive person i've ever met. and so he took great pride in blocking reggie's shot. and right after the game, they played for about an hour, he made a beeline to me. sweat dripping down his face. and he came up to me and he's like, hey, did you get that block? he just wanted to make sure that i had gotten that picture. >> one of the most touching pictures is the 5-year-old in the oval office, identifying with the president which is, you know, perhaps the most important thing that president obama did historically was to be the first black president and to show everyone that that could happen. to show these children. and he instinctively leans down. >> well, i think, you know, the

picture resonates with people for a couple of reasons. think of every african-american kid looking at this picture. here's this kid who is touching the head of the president of the united states. that looks like him. and what that must mean to the young african-americans across the country. but also, i think it tells you something about barack obama that, you know, at the behest of a 5-year-old kid, go ahead and bend over and let that kid touch your hair like that. >> you had such amazing access with both presidents. and that really is key. and it was such -- so much trust that nancy reagan, 15 years after the president had left and when he passed, 15 years later, she asked you to come back and accompany her and his casket back to california. >> yeah, that was a great honor. i mean, that was in 2004, and president bush, president george w. bush sent air force one out

to pick up the casket and the entourage, and we flew back to d.c. where he lied in state at the capitol. this picture that's shown on the screen now was taken on the plane, which, you know, was just kind of a surreal experience in so many ways. >> the plane you had spent so many hours and years on. thank you so much, pete. thanks for sharing. we can't wait to see the full documentary which is "the way i see it." produced by msnbc and focus features. that does it for today for "andrea mitchell reports." starting today, nbc news and msnbc are holding several key conversations with national security and defense experts and other newsmakers as part of the annual 2020, this year's 2020 aspen security forum. tune in to nbc news now online at 4:00 for my conversation with china's ambassador to the u.s. and chris jansing picks up our

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good afternoon. i'm chris jansing. tropical storm isaias is moving up the east coast with high winds and heavy rainfall headed for the big population centers. philadelphia and new york. check out the live view of the statue of liberty coming to us courtesy of earth cam. it's only 1:00 p.m. in the northeast, but looking outside, you would think it's