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we've got breaking news from beirut, lebanon, after a pair of terrifying explosions. the country's health minister said just minutes ago that the blast killed at least 50 people and hurt at least 3,000. the video of these explosions hat astounded people around the world. we're told the damage extends for miles around the blast. nbc chief foreign correspondent richard engel is in london with developments. you know beirut and you know this area very, very well. first of all, tell us what you know about this explosion, but also the location and why the casualty number is so high. >> reporter: well, the casualty number could go up if you look at the video and there's multiple angles of this video, it was right at the port which

is in center of beirut, as you mentioned, i lived there not very far from here for several years and what happened today, around 6:00 local time was apparently a chemical explosion, that's what lebanese officials are now saying, they still want to investigate, but several officials believe that there was a storage, several tons of nitrates that exploded simultaneously. first, there was a fire at the port and that fire could be seen all across the city. that's why people were filming some of them from their balconies looking at this unusual occurrence with a plume of smoke going up and sparks coming out of the center of the fire, initial reports that this may have been a fireworks storage facility, lebanese firms say this was no firework accident. as the initial fire was burning, september off these tons and

tons of nitrates that sent a shock wave, rolling across the city, causing significance damage and caused thousands of people to be injurtd. 3,000 injured but those numbers could go up as the rescue efforts are still ongoing, in fact, the red cross has called for all ambulances all around the country to come to beirut to try to rescue the wounded. they've called on people to donate all types of blood the prime minister just came out and said that friendly nations should come guaforward with aid that lebanon needs aid right now, the country is going through an economic crisis, a power crisis, and now this explosion that rolled through the city. people just didn't hear it and feel it in beirut, people were knocked off their feet in the mountains that surround beirut, people could see and hear the

explosion in cyprus, 150 miles away, and i just spoke to a friend and colleague in beirut a few minutes ago he has no windows, he said basically nobody in beirut has windows right now, and not only are they frightened now sitting in the dark because of the frequent power cuts but they're trying to put plastic over their windows, boards over their windows because there's chemical smell in the air and they're concerned that the chemicals be harmful to them if they breathe them in, these chemical materials, these explosive terls had been at the port for several years, they had been there for six years at least, and there should be investigations launched as to why this hazardous material was kept at the port right in the center of the capital city. >> given the economic problems

in that country and that city, given the governmental instability, understanding why they're asking for help under any circumstances but given those negative circumstances, what's the infrastructure like, richard, to respond what really is not just an explosion it's as you described multiple problems resulting from it? >> reporter: beirut was on its knees for the last several months, the country has been in a state of near collapse, the currency has collapsed, there have been runs on the banks, people's salaries have been reduced to almost nothing, people's savings have been wiped out, power shortages always an issue in beirut have become systemic with the power out eight, ten hours a day, the generator cost -- when you live in beirut, you had to pay extra so when the power did go out you could supplement it with a

generator usually a communal generator for the building or everybody for the neighborhood. now they're using those generators so much that people are spending their entire salaries just xr auxillary generator problem. on top of that you have a situation this mysterious explosion that wipes out a part of central beirut and is felt all across the surrounding area. if you're beirut tonight and your savings are gone and now you're trying to tape up your window because you're afraid of the chemical smell coming in and harming you or your family, it's a very, very trying time to be lebanon right now. >> to say the least. richard, you'll keep us posted as more information comes in from beirut and you've got lots of sources there. so thank you very much for bringing us the very latest. when we return -- a very good sign for democrats looking to win back in a key

battleground state that donald trump picked up four years ago. trump picked up four years ago

a glimmer of hope for democrats today, voters across battleground michigan are off to the polls for today's senate primary contest. back in 2016, a 12-point drop in turnout among black voters played a key role in president trump's michigan victory, but now early data suggests that there's a high level among this key base of the democratic party, our colleague writes, quote, in detroit where 80% of the population is black, the city clerk said she's already received more than 90,000 requests for absentee ballots for the senate primary on tuesday, the most ever, eclipsing even past general elections. joining our conversation eddie glaude jr., he's also an msnbc contributor and the former national deputy of

african-american outreach for president obama's 2008 campaign. so great to have both of you. heidi's article was so interesting and one of the people that she talked to was a 31-year-old african-american single mother she didn't vote in the 2016 election, but here's what she had to say now, trump is really one of the best things to happen in a generations-long movement for racial casuequalit that has activated americans across all demographic groups, eddie, is she right? >> well, i mean, we could put the point differently that donald trump has revealed the ugly underbelly of american politics. so, i think there's general consensus among at least the democratic kons tunesy that donald trump and his republican

enablers are an existential threat to the country. and so i think what we're seeing in michigan and in detroit, particularly in wayne county, more broadly, is an all-out understanding that donald trump has to be -- has to be sent home. we have to see the back of his head because he represents a fundamental threat to the country. and i think we've seen that in previous elections, midterm elections, we've seen enthusiasm among black voters and i think we're going to see that in november, but chris, let me give you my prayers, i know you lost your aunt. >> thank you so much. lena, this was your job, we all know that donald trump won michigan by just over 10,000 votes, those kind of stories, michigan, wisconsin, that haunt democrats, that still keep them awake at night, so given what

this 31-year-old young black woman had to sigh and knowing that she's just one of so many, how does joe biden, how do the democrats take that feeling and turn it into wins? >> i think eddie is right the in that african-american voter enthusiasm is up already because we know that our vote matters as our livelihoods depend on securing our democracy and using our votes this november, so what you're seeing in terms of the turnout, or the requests for absentee ballots in michigan is reflective that african-americans are 14% of michigan's population, but 27% of the individuals who are contracting covid in this state and almost 40% of the deaths in this state. according to the university of michigan, 45% of detroit's population is unemployed. so individuals are requesting

absentee ballots and are taking back their voting power because their livelihoods and lives depend on it you're seeing a resounding answer to that question, what trump asked in 2016. what the hell can you lose? we can lose our homes, the unemployment insurance is expiring because of the cares act. there's so much on table. what biden needs to do is ensure everyone has a voting plan and continue to demonstrate that he's the leader to provide an alternate choice to the reality we're finding ourselves in right now that is dire. >> to continue to draw that contrast that i hear from a lot of democrats that i talk to, eddie, and then you have the president in this interview and there's so much of it we could deconstruct but i want to play in particular what president trump had to say about president

johnson and the civil rights act. >> i did more for the black community than anybody with the possible exception of abra him lincoln, whether you like it. >> you believe you did more than lyndon johnson? >> yeah. >> how? >> i got prison reform. >> lyndon johnson? >> well -- >> he passed the civil rights act. >> how did it work out? >> you think the civil rights act was a mistake. >> frankly it took a long time. but for african-americans -- >> you think that was a mistake? >> jonathan, under my administration, african-americans are doing better than they've done in the history of this country. >> eddie, i know that that he's said before that he's done more for african-americans he's said it multiple times, he wouldn't answer jonathan's very easy question, was the civil rights

act of 1964 a mistake? >> i mean, you know, one of the things that i have a hard time doing, chris, is taking seriously donald trump. around these sort of issues. in mean, we need to understand him for who he is, we cthe main thing we hear him talk like this, we need to understand it for the materialistic language that it is, i've done more for african-americans, we don't need him to do something for us, we need him to be the president of the united states, to uphold the principles and the norms of democracy. he sounds like a plantation and we should be grateful to him, we should show gratitude to him. what does he mean? on the face that he's done more than lyndon johnson? it's false. simply having to answer the question is insulting, as if

we're some ward of the state, that state actors must do something for as opposed to us being citizens of this republic. claiming our just do as citizen another example of how debased his character is, in my view. >> eddie glaude, always great to see you. you know, i freeze frame, and i'm not -- i freeze frame you and look at all the books you're reading, and -- his selection of books is amazing. thank you eddie glaude and elena beverly. appreciate you spending some time with us. donald trump's endless assault on mail-in voting runs in against the facts. that's ahead. if you're 55 and up,

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it is there. it's like armageddon here. it's so nice in arizona. we know what a pivotal -- >> but it is 109 degrees so we don't have your rain and thunder but we have heat, okay? it's not nothing, all right? >> okay. just, you know, just the facts. only the facts. let's talk about arizona, the hot state of arizona. it's going to be a hot state this november. are officials ready to process such a large number of mail-in votes given that we are also in the middle of a pandemic? >> just like the weather, elections run differently state to state. this is a state that has been doing mail-in voting since 1996. when you look at every four years, the number of voters here that have turned to mail-in voting, in 2018 midterm elections, 78% of arizona voters used mail-in ballots. the state's governor here, republican doug ducey himself has said just this summer that he is proud of the way that

elections have been run here in the state and the opportunities afforded to folks to use that sort of system. when you look at where the state finds itself now in the middle of the pandemic, it's primary day and there are folks who tell me they're coming out to vote for martha mcsally in the republican primary for the senator race. sheriff joe arpaio is back on the ballot here. it's still a very small number. i was speaking with katie hobbs, a democrat here. her concern was misinformation. i've got to tell you, i was having a conversation with one voter, karen bailey, here with a friend who came -- was on oxygen and she said they felt it important to come and cast their vote in person because they are concerned about the integrity of mail-in voting. and that is still, she questions, depending on what the results look like come november and that's why they decided they want to do this in person. very much reflecting the tone of this president. >> without a doubt. vaughn hillyard, always good to see you. stay cool.

coming up -- jonathan swan with his amazing interview with donald trump. plus, senator kamala harris will be with us. "deadline: white house" next. ♪ thousands of women with metastatic breast cancer, which is breast cancer that has spread to other parts of the body, are living in the moment and taking ibrance. ibrance with an aromatase inhibitor is for postmenopausal women or for men with hr+/her2- metastatic breast cancer,

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off against jonathan swan of axios, unwilling to accept a shred of responsibility for a death toll that's more than doubled early projections from the white house, unable to acknowledge a testing shortage across the country that's made contact tracing and containment impossible, and outright incapable of acknowledging the grief and the pain of the millions of americans touched by this virus. swan, through meticulous preparation and reflexive pushback against donald trump's most misleading claims, offers an alarming portrait of the country's president and his distorted view of his own response to the pandemic. here is just one piece of that interview. >> when can you commit, by what date, that every american will have access to the same-day testing that you get here in the white house? >> well, we have great testing. what we're doing, and -- >> by what date? >> let me explain. the testing, we have tested more people than any other country,

than all of europe put together times two. and, you know, there are those that say, you can test too much. you do know that. >> who says that? >> oh, just read the manuals. read the books. >> manuals? what manuals? >> read the books. >> what books? >> point is because we are so much better at testing than any other country in the world, we show more cases. >> the figure i look at is death. and death is going up now. that's 1,000 a day. >> if you look at death -- >> yeah, it's going up again. >> let's take a look. look at some of these charts. >> i'd love to. >> we're going to look. >> let's look. >> if you look at death -- >> start to go up again. >> well, right here, the united states is lowest in numerous categories. we're lower than the world. >> lower than the world? where is thatted? >> lower than europe. >> in what? >> take a look. >> right here. here's case death.

>> oh, you're doing death as a proportion of cases. i'm doing death as a proportion of population. that's where the u.s. is really bad. much worse than south korea, germany. >> you can't do that. >> i've covered you for a long time. i've talked to your people. they love you. they listen to you. they hang on your every word. they don't listen to me or the media or fauci. they think we're fake news. they want to get their advice from you. when they hear you say everything is under control, don't worry about wearing masks, these are people, many of them are older people, mr. president. >> yeah, under the -- >> you're giving them a false sense of security. >> right now it's under control. >> how? 1,000 americans are dying a day. >> they are dying, that's true. and it is what it is, but that doesn't mean we aren't doing everything we can. it's under control, as much as you can control it. >> the president's words, it is what it is heard around a country dealing with near unprecedented suffering. the "miami herald" reported two teenagers have died from covid

complications. dr. fauci is confirming dr. birx's declaration sunday the pandemic is spreading out of control. u.s. cases topping 4.7 million. deaths topping 156,000. and thousands of americans bracing for an unprecedented eviction wave as federal relief dries up. the grief and anxiety that the nation feels, but that trump does not, is amplified now by the stories of suffering coming from every part of this country. family members of david nagi of texas who died needlessly of covid, according to his family, sending out a message of outrage. that's struck a cord. here's part of the obituary they penned for their local paper, later reported in "the washington post." i'm quoting here. family members believe david's death was needless. they blame his death and the deaths of all the other innocent people on trump, texas governor greg abbott, and all the politicians who did not take

this pandemic seriously and were more concerned with their popularity and votes than lives. also to blame are the many ignorant, self-centered and selfish people who refused to follow the advice of the medical professionals, believing their right not to wear a mask was more important than killing innocent people. it's a theme echoed by more and more grieving families, the post writes. quote, obituaries with political messages have been on the rise during the pandemic. in july, the daughter of a man who died of covid-19 penned a blistering obituary in the "arizona republic" writing that her father's death was due to the carelessness of politicians who continue to jeopardize the health of brown bodies. an obituary in the citizen-times in asheville, north carolina, for sandra shuler thomas in july encouraging mourners to use her death as motivation to vote in the coming presidential elect n

election. in lieu of flowers, think of mrs. thomas while casting your vote to remove president trump from office, it said. these are the unfiltered voices of grief from families paying the price for donald trump's delusions and failures. but as far as trump is concerned, it is what it is. the american presidency detached from reality is where we start today. axios national political reporter jonathan swan, who we saw in that clip is here. plus professor of journalism and politics and a contributor for the grio, jason johnson, and former democratic senator claire mccaskill. this is a tour de force, to say the least, jonathan. so kudos that have been repeated all across the journalistic spectrum, all across the spectrum of anyone who cares about what's happening in this country today. but of the many, many things that you were able to extract

from the president in this interview, the one that i think so many people are talking about, and i want to know what went through your mind when you heard it is what i just said. it is what it is. >> well, it was a moment where i was trying to actually get the president to grapple with the reality that america, when you compare it to other advanced countries on the measure of death from this virus as a proportionate population, america does very badly indeed. it's not the worst in the world. it's not far off. and there's a very basic question, which is why is it that the united states of america, with all of its wealth, with all of its resources, with all of its scientific and technological advancement finds itself in this terrible position. and instead of grappling with that question, the president had

brought along his own charts to basically try to sell the story that it wasn't as bad as it seemed, that it was under control and that, in fact, it was a much rosier picture than the raw statistics paint. so it's a very striking part of the interview. >> and people can judge for themselves whether they think the president, even though he was armed with those charts, had control over what the information was that they contained or understood it. but i thought there was another point, and you made it so clearly and so definitively and that i think is so important as we continue to watch the number of deaths and the number of cases rise. and that is, explaining to the president how much, a large portion of this country, even though it's not a majority, but a large portion of this country still believe him. a large portion of this country that don't believe his lies are lies. who are listening to him for

guidance. who are listening to him because they believe he is telling them the truth, and then to watch, it wasn't even so much what he said but his physical reaction when you confronted him with the truth, jonathan. >> yeah, well, so that was a section of the interview where i was trying to get him to grapple with the concept of communication from a leader in a public health crisis. when you talk to public health experts, they'll tell you that probably the most important thing a president or a leader can do in a public health crisis is provide the public with accurate, reliable, credible and consistent information because, obviously, behavior is so important. social distancing, wearing masks, all that -- all those behaviors are so important in stemming the flow of the virus. and i put it to the president that he hadn't done that, and that, for month after month, not just in the early days when, you

know, a lot of people were wrong about this, but, you know, march, april, may and even in june, convening what is still the largest indoor gathering in the united states since the pandemic hit, which was his rally in tulsa. and my question to him was, why did you do that. but he heard it as me challenging him on his crowd size, which was not what i was doing at all and was quite beside the point. in fact, he went on to say his crowd was much larger than i've reported. >> it's a really -- one of the many great moments in the interview, but we have that. so let's play that exchange with the president. >> look, tulsa was a very good -- oklahoma was doing very well as a state. it was almost free. it spiked a month later, month and a half, two months later, but it was a good area. we had a tremendous crowd. we had tremendous response. you couldn't even -- it was like an armed camp. you couldn't even get through. you couldn't get anybody in. we had 12,000 people. it was incorrectly reported.

>> i'm not criticizing your ability to draw a crowd. are you kidding me? i covered you for years. you draw huge crowds. >> at the time, and i canceled another one. i have a great crowd in new hampshire, and i canceled it for the same reason. >> i mean, that, obviously, wasn't what he said at the time which was that the cancellation was weather related and it would be rescheduled, which it wasn't, but i think what that points to, it's that same failure to accept responsibility, jonathan. >> well, again, it's not -- again, it's reflective of where his mind is at on these matters. and there it was primarily about defending the size of his crowd and the ratings when my question was a question about public health, and the wisdom of convening the largest indoor gathering on american soil since the pandemic. and i've been in the oval office with him the day before that

tulsa rally and on the record asked him whether he'd recommend masks. he recommended people do whatever they want. so it's really a question about presidential leadership and presidential communication, but i think it was somewhat revealing that he heard it as me challenging him on his crowd sizes which i wasn't doing. >> let me just ask you quickly because as you just pointed out in that exchange, you've been covering him for years. as he is three months out, how do you find him? is he very different than somebody you interviewed just months ago? what was your sense of the president? >> donald trump, you know, i don't buy into a lot of the stories that he's changed in some substantial way since june of 2015. i don't believe he has. i believe he's got the same character traits, the same donald trump that we've seen consistently in public life. going back much further than that. and it's the same again now. but what i do see is somebody

who believes that he has a more energetic base than joe biden and that he can win by appealing to that base and revving them up more and more and more heading into november. this is not someone who is trying to do a cross over the aisle type of campaign or reaching out to, you know, democrats or even, you know, soft republicans who have abandoned him. this is going to be a turnout election, and you can see that in his public posture. >> and jason, i want to bring claire and jason in. i was thinking as i learned that you were going to be on the show, i thought, wow, if i was in his position, i would be teaching this interview and not to make this all about you, jonathan, swan, although, again, i can't even say enough about what you did here. but the preparation and, again, for me, the reaction of this president when he is confronted

with the facts. >> well, you know, thank you for asking that. one of the things that hit me about the effectiveness of jonathan's interview was not just the reactions he got out of the president. donald trump lies so much and so consistently that it's very easy to sort of argue with him as we saw on fox and then you have to go and do a pretape edit and go in and say this is why we know we were lying. what's smart about jonathan, you had the information right there. you could throw the information right at him. and i teach at a historically black college and university. i doubt donald trump would have been able to have that conversation if the interviewer was a woman or person of color because his hostility level towards being asked questions, as we've seen with yamiche al syndor and others. so part of this was also just demographic in addition to being a very, very effective and well organized interview. >> i don't know how many people are out there who can now be

unsure about whether they think this president is a credible purveyor of facts, but if there are minds to be changed, i think, look, we have been in this for months and months and months, and one of the things that jonathan pressed him about is when rapid tests were going to be available. he couldn't answer that question. he couldn't give a date beyond soon. now they send out overnight this campaign email telling supporters to wear masks. and this is the quote. i don't love wearing them either. masks may be good. they may be just okay, or they may be great. they can possibly help us get back to our american way of life. we are in august, and he's writing that masks, claire, may be good? >> yeah, you know, i think you need a full two hours for this interview, seriously. i am getting worn out a little

bit with telling jonathan how great it was, but it really was revealing and there was so much in this interview we haven't even touched on. here's a law and order president that tries to say a child sex predator who has just been arrested might be innocent. and he said john lewis will be remembered for not coming to his swearing in. i mean, you know, he never asked putin about bounties on american soldiers. i mean, there is topic after topic after topic. -- say to the people in this country that are paying attention to him, around 30% of our population, that you've got to wear a mask. and i -- after watching this interview and everyone should, i've got one thing to say. i know who should be afraid of debates, and it's not joe biden. >> well, that will lead me into my final question for you, jason, which is, will there be a

debate, do you think? and what would we see if we had joe biden who, like jonathan swan, came prepared and came loaded for bear with facts? again, just the facts. >> honestly, i would put -- i would roll the die on whether we'll get a debate. it would not shock me for donald trump to back out of it, especially if the numbers look bad. he wouldn't want to have the interaction. i wouldn't be surprised if he walked off stage. almost looked like he was going to do that against hillary clinton. the only danger going into a debate for this 2020 year is that the expectations for donald trump will be so low that if he does not pull like a chevy chase gerald ford thing and spit or say the n-word on the air, people will think he did a good job because there's no way he can intellectually or linguistically compete with joe biden or any of the other democrats that ran this year because i don't think the

president has that level of discipline or concentration. >> everyone stays, thanks to all of you. when we come back, we'll have more from jonathan's incredible interview. what he had to say when asked to reflect on the late congressman john lewis. we'll also talk to kamala harris about it and the day's other headlines. joe biden is looking for a sharp, ambitious woman to stand alongside him. we'll ask the senator about that as well. and we're tracking the huge storm ripping up the east coast. a live update from our friend bill karins. all those stories coming up. >> tech: when you've got auto glass damage...

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how do you think history will remember john lewis? >> i don't know. i really don't know. i don't know john lewis. he chose not to come to my inauguration. he chose -- i don't -- i never met john lewis actually, i don't believe. >> do you find him impressive? >> i can't say one way or the other. i find a lot of people impressive. i find many people not impressive. >> do you find his story impress sniff. >> he didn't come to my inauguration or state of the union speeches. and that's all right. nobody has done more for black americans than i have. >> i understand. >> he should have come. i think he made a big mistake. >> taking your relationship with him out of it, do you find his story impressive, what he's done for this country? >> he was a person that devoted a lot of energy and a lot of heart to civil rights, but there were many others also.

>> he can't say one way or another. he can't say if civil rights icon and long-serving congressman john lewis, who was bloodied and arrested numerous times in his fight for equality, was impressive. trump's reflection of the congressman's legacy is even more striking when compared with the scene in atlanta at his funeral just last week. where all three of trump's predecessors paid tribute to lewis and his life's work. joining us now, california democratic senator kamala harris. so good to see you, senator. >> thank you. >> i feel like it's a bit of a broken record question. but what do you think when you hear that clip, somebody who won't even say, do you find his story impressive? and if you find him impressive, the response is he didn't go to my impeachment -- i'm sorry,

that's a freudian slip. he didn't go to my inauguration. he didn't go to the state of the union. >> so a couple of things, chris, and great to be with you. first of all, we have a president who is petty. he's petty. but also, there is something about donald trump that is just the antithesis of what we want as an american leader and as our president, which is we want a president who has a generosity of spirit. there's nothing about donald trump that is generous. he's generous to himself, but he has no generosity toward an icon, a hero, who has been described as a saint, john lewis, or the american people, quite frankly when you look at his policies. and that's why i do believe he's going to be defeated in november, and i believe that he is just becoming a more and more petty as we get closer to an election. the outcome of which will be that joe biden will be the next president of the united states. and so this is what we have.

and at this moment, when we have had over 150,000 people in our country who have died in the past few months, millions of people who are out of work as the estimate, as many as 30 million people drawing unemployment because they are either unemployed or underemployed. and instead we have someone who is so self-involved, instead of someone lifting up the spirit of the american people. i think, you know, great job, jonathan, on the interview. and it is a further, yet another example of the nature of the current president of the united states. and it is a nature that does not reflect what we, i think as a country, know is actually an example of strength. it actually shows that he's quite weak. >> and does not reflect, certainly, john lewis' legacy. you mentioned the unemployment. tens of millions of people who have filed for unemployment claims. some of them now worried about eviction notices.

many of them worrying how they're going to put food on the table because of the expiration of these additional unemployment checks which incorrectly, according to a series of studies, many republicans have said that people just are taking them and they're making more money so they don't want to work. again, a series of studies that show that is simply not true. you have a president who is calling on nancy pelosi, crazy nancy, who is blaming democratic governors. we did hear from the speaker of the house who said she doesn't think they'll be able to vote on anything until next week. tell me your thoughts on where we are right now and how we're going to get help to the people who need it. >> well, you have outlined it well. we have, as of friday of last week, millions of people who will not have an extension of the supplemental unemployment insurance. people who have to pay their rent, have to feed their children on a daily basis.

we have the end of moratoriums on eviction. we are looking at a state in our country right now where 1 in 5 mothers is describing her children under the age of 12 as being hungry. we're in the midst of a hunger crisis. we're on the cliff of a homelessness crisis and eviction crisis. and we need to act. the american people have a right to believe that their government will support them. and so i believe strongly that we should stay here. there should be no august break until the american people have received a break. because the government understands their needs and their need to survive through this pandemic. and just get to the other side with dignity. so we've got to work on that, and as we know, the house passed the heroes act, which we support. i support. which will do a number of things that, sadly, the republican bill does not do. it would extend unemployment. it would look at the need for

snap benefits, which is what we used to call food stamps. people have hungry children, and they need to feed them. these are the things we need to get done, and i believe we should stay here until we get it done. >> the census bureau has said that they're going to stop counting people a month earlier than they thought because they need that time to get the report in by the end of the year. as you well know, the consequences of this census are huge. most obviously representation in congress and the amount of money that these various states get. it's believed that there may be as many as 4 in 10 who have not been counted yet. and you and i both know, who are the people who are traditionally undercounted. people of color, immigrants, renters, people who live in rural areas. how concerned are you about this decision? >> i'm very concerned. and i'll tell you why. we, as a nation, as part of -- really as part as who we are as a democracy, we say the people

count. and so by law, every ten years, our nation conducts a census. to count how many people are in our country and where are they. and it's on the basis of that number that we make decisions about federal dollars going to states, going to local governments to give them the support they need for public schools, for headstart programs, for medicaid. so you understand when we undercount the people, that means that the people who are often most in need will not have the resources that they deserve and that are necessary to maintain a productive and a healthy society. and donald trump is clearly doing this because there is a political agenda at foot. and it has everything to do, i believe, with the drawing electoral maps. it has everything to do with his anti-immigration agenda, and the american people will suffer for generations, chris, if he gets away with this. for generations. because, remember, it's every

ten years. and ten years in the life of a child is a very long time. >> so let's talk about joe biden because a lot of people are very afr anxiously awaiting his decision on vice president. we know you've been names on the short list. can you tell us anything about where you are in the vetting process or what you have gone through in terms of the vetting process, or at least from having been through this part of the vetting process, what you are learning about what the former vice president is looking for in his running mate. >> well, i will tell you this. i'm very honored to be a part of this discussion, and whatever decision joe biden makes, i will support that decision and do everything in my power to help him get elected because, again, chris, there's so much -- >> if i can channel jonathan swan, that's not really answering the question. >> oh, but it is, in my mind. it is, and i'll tell you why.

i'll tell you why. i'll tell you why. because we can talk about a process, but we -- really a process is only important in the context of, does the outcome have integrity. and i believe whatever his decision is, it will have integrity, and it will be focused on what is necessary to fulfill his mission, which is about saving the soul of america, restoring the middle class and uplifting our country. and so whatever happens, whatever this process has been or may involve, i support the outcome. >> i have to ask you quickly, even though we're out of time, about this headline in "the washington post," the analysis of this search. accusations of being too ambitious, some black women see a double standard. there have been claims that you are too ambitious. have we learned nothing in the last four years since those kinds of accusations were leveled against hillary clinton?

>> you know, we don't -- i don't think you and i for this moment have enough time to have a conversation about the nuances at play. but i will say this. i also do think of this in the context of the ambition of america. the ambition of the american dream. the ambition of somebody like a joe biden to believe and know that we can restore the soul of america and uplift the middle class. the ambition of the framers to dare to write the constitution of the united states. and the ambition of joe biden and the ambition of the constitution of the united states. i support wholeheartedly. so i think that we have to put these things in context always. >> senator kamala harris, thank you for spending time with us. we appreciate it. >> of course. up next, despite decades of successful mail-in voting, trump tries to sell the alleged danger that he says could happen without a clear-cut winner on election night. more from jonathan swan's

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so we have a new phenomena. it's called mail-in voting. where you send -- >> new? it's been here since the civil war. >> there is no way you can go through a mail-in vote without massive cheating. you could have a case where this election won't be decided on the evening of november 3rd. >> absolutely. >> this election --

>> what's wrong with that? >> it could be decided two months. >> what's wrong with the proper mail-in count. >> you know why? because lots of things will happen during that period of time. especially when you have tight margins. lots of things can happen. >> more from jonathan swan's interview with the president stoking fear over mail-in voting ahead of november's election. jonathan swan, jason johnson, claire mccaskill are back. do you have any idea what he was talking about when he said all these things that could happen? >> well, i think what is shaping up is, we know that there's going to be a significantly larger mail-in vote in november because of the pandemic. some states will change their processes and we've seen that in nevada where they will mail ballots, but a lot of states you'll just see a much higher demand for mail-in voting. and what that means, according to experts, is you could see a situation where, on election

night, president trump is looking in pretty good shape because, you know, he's been telling his voters again and again, this is a fraud lent system. you may see a larger in-person vote from republicans. but then what could happen in the days following is that as the ballots, the mail-in ballots start to come in and be counted you could see in key states the votes starting to trend democratic. and that is the point at which i expect president trump will start, you know, potentially litigating, calling for a halt in voting the way he did in 2018 when that was happening in the florida race with gillum and desantis. i think that's where this is heading based on the president's public statements so far. >> yeah, and there was an op-ed today, jason, in "the washington post" by george conway. and i want to read just a little bit of it that applies to what the interview was just about. he says, president trump's unfounded attacks on mail balloting are discouraging his own supporters from embracing

the practice, according to polls and republican leaders across the country prompting growing alarm that one of the central strategies of his campaign is threatening gop prospects in november. i'm sorry. the conway op-ed adds mailed votes leaves a paper trail that renders them less, not more susseptsible to fraud. he's lying to buy more time. what are you expecting, jason, on the 4th of november? >> i have been saying this for a while, chris. i don't think we'll know who the president is. we probably won't know who the president is for weeks. this is a scenario being very likely. on election night, we don't know who will be in the lead. it may be joe biden. he may be 20 electoral votes short. you look at michigan and wisconsin and north carolina where you have democratic governors. they are very likely going to say everybody stay in line.

everybody continue to count votes. as the votes continue to be counted, joe biden will probably catch up and possibly take the lead. there is a state, probably multiple states, that will go from red to blue as more votes are counted. and at that point, it wouldn't be surprising if the president sent in federal troops saying he was protecting the vote. if you had republican legislators suing democratic governors, we are in for a fight. i don't think anyone should believe for one second, above and beyond the voter suppression and ridiculous rhetoric and lying of the president and his sycophants in congress, no one should expect to know who the president of the united states is on election night and not for many weeks afterwards. >> the reason you have to go out and vote, the reason that democrats have to take all of this energy, the reason they have to continue to speak to independents and to republicans who are tired of donald trump is because they need those margins. because the larger the margin, the less likelihood there is for a fight. but do you think, claire, that no matter what, no matter how

big the margins, there will be a fight or at least an attempt to have one? >> you know, i'm going to see this glass as half full rather than half empty. the margins will matter. how big the margin is on election night will make a big difference. if states are call on election night, because of the margins, we could very easily have joe biden elected president on that night. and here's the, thi other thing that's interesting about this. you know who has been good about harvesting mail-in ballots historically? i'm old. i did elected politics for 40 years. you know who always won the fight over mail-in ballots in my state? it was the republicans. the republicans are really good at identifying elderly people and trying to help them get a mail-in ballot. so the really -- the interesting thing is, like all things trump, he ends up hitting himself upside the head because he is discouraging what has been a

strength for the republican party. and you are seeing that now, some of the republicans are going wait, wait, wait, stop with the mail-in ballot stuff because you're going to discourage a lot of our folks from voting, which may, in fact, help us with those margins on election night. and have the victor decided, called by the ap, before midnight. that's what i'm hoping for. >> claire, do you think these attacks could backfire on him? do you think that? >> yes. yes, i do. i think the people who are listening to him are not likely to vote by mail. i think other voters who understand, i just voted by mail in the missouri primary because i'm not in missouri right now. it is so -- you know, they track the number on the ballot in missouri, unless you're over 60 or 65, you have to have it notari notarized. there's all kinds of checks on mail-in ballots. they are very, very sol id and safe. the only people he's discouraging are the people that believe in him.

and those are his voters. >> i have to leave the last question to you, jonathan, swan, because the president has tried to put forth this whole idea that he feels very confident. he doesn't believe any of the polls. he says his internal polls show a very different story. how did you find his level of confidence to be about november? >> it's very hard to assess because he doesn't project insecurity, frankly, to anyone. he's not doing it privately. he's certainly not doing it to me. and it's very hard to know, you know, whether there's a gap between what he is saying and how he's actually feeling. so i actually don't know. i do know from aides that he is saying privately as well that he thinks the polls are way off and this silent majority out there is going to come back and re-elect him. so he is saying that privately for what it's worth, but what he truly believes, i don't pretend

to know. >> jonathan swan with a truly extraordinary interview with the president and the lesson for all those students that jason johnson teaches, thanks to all of you. claire mccaskill, always great to see you. we appreciate all of you for spending some time with us. up next -- tracking the deadly storm as it batters the east coast with heavy rain, flooding, tornadoes and rough winds. a live update from bill karins just ahead. - hey, can i... - safe drivers save 40%!!! guys! guys! safe drivers save 40%!!! safe drivers save 40%!

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we've got breaking news this hour on tropical storm isaias as it continues to barrel up the east coast. heavy rainfall, damaging winds and the threat of tornadoes across the mid-atlantic coast this afternoon. it made landfall overnight in north carolina as a category 1 hurricane. and it left a trail of destruction, flooding, hundreds of thousands of people without power. two confirmed fatalities. tropical storm warnings are in effect for more than 50 million americans as the coastline braces for flash flooding. let's bring in nbc news meteorologist bill karins with the very latest. bill, how is it looking right now? >> this storm has left its mark. it's not done yet, chris. still racing up through northern new england. it's just so rare that we have a strong tropical storm but with a top of albany, new york, of all places. that just doesn't happen. and this storm is very unique in that matter. we have so many power outages that have moved through the northern portion. we have more power outages in the tri-state area in new york and connecticut and new jersey

than we did down in virginia and north carolina where the storm was its strongest earlier today. we're just not built for this. so many big trees in the northeast. that's where a lot of the problems have occurred. right now 65-mile-per-hour winds. the storm is racing to the north-northeast at 40 miles per hour. this storm will be up around burlington vrmts by 8:00 p.m. tonight and gone by the time we get through 10:00 p.m. or so. the wind gusts are still pretty sporty. gusting 45 to 50 miles per hour. look at providence where that little squall just went through. we hit 59-mile-per-hour winds. that's enough to do some significant tree damage and i'm sure a lot of power outages spreading through northern rhode island right now. that's what's heading for you boston in the next hour. it's going to be a brief period of strong winds when those heavy rain squalls go through. and that will be the worst of it. notice the strong winds haven't arrived in albany yes. looks like the back side will be your strongest winds. still in new haven around 54

miles per hour. when we look back at this storm, one of the worst things that happened was last night, landfall was at 11:15 p.m. at about 1:15 in the morning, we had a tornado go through areas, rural section there, just off the albamar sound in windsor, south carolina. mobile homes even if they are trailers, they were still levelled. they're still splinrin splinter. there's nothing left to show you.le when you see vehicles and cars like that,ic usually talking li an ef-2, ef-3 tornado which is extremelyad rare for a tropical system. one fatality.

still trying to find a couple other that were missing. if we get any additional tornados it would be with that line aboutos to head toward boston. tornado watch until 9:00 p.m. this l evening. we're starting to clear that st out. haven't had aea tornado reporte in the lastha four to five hour. still some gloflooding concerns through theod mountains and poconos. we have to watch some of those small rural streams and rivers inru those areas. additional rainfall really albany dinorthwards. just about done. >> and it's why that storm is

the reason why nicolle wallace is not in this chair right now, why aht lot of our writers are nowhere to be seen and other b people. interesting working from home these days.in glad toom seee you, glad you and your family are safe and sound but all i can say about isaias is good riddance. thank you for spending time with us, bill. appreciate it. up next -- honoring lives well lived. and take. it. on... ...with rinvoq. rinvoq a once-daily pill... ...can dramatically improve symptoms... rinvoq helps tame pain, stiffness, swelling. and for some... rinvoq can even significantly reduce ra fatigue. that's rinvoq relief. with ra, your overactive immune system attacks your joints. rinvoq regulates it to help stop the attack. rinvoq can lower your ability to fight infections, including tuberculosis. serious infections and blood clots, sometimes fatal, have occurred... ...as have certain cancers, including lymphoma, and tears in the stomach or intestines,

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just a few weeks ago, ali marsh's family was planning her wedding. now they're planning her funeral. the 25-year-old died suddenly, a week and a half ago. it was the coronavirus. she was evidently a prolific writer with a kind and gentle spirit. along with the unique ali loved animals, too. her obituary insists we can only imagine all the arms, paws hoovo welcome her home. . today, we're thinking especially of her fiance, adam, and mourning the future they deserved to share together. then there's frank, a 39-year-old coronavirus victim from new jersey. his obituary calls him the

ultimate protector, to his friends, to his family, and especially on the job. see, he worked at newark airport with the canine unit, detecting explosives alongside one of a number of four-legged partners. frank was very proud of his role in boy scouts, as well. he achieved eagle scouts after hosting a special olympics bowling tournament for more than 70 athletes. he had a passion for photography and a deep, enduring love for his wife, julie. please keep her in mind this afternoon. thank you all for watching. nicolle wallace should be back here tomorrow. our coverage continues with chuck todd after this quick break. continues with chuck todd after this quick break. i like to recommend pronamel to my patients. pronamel will help push the minerals back into the enamel, to keep the enamel strong. i know it works. and i hear nothing but great things from my patients that have switched to it.

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♪ welcome to tuesday. it is "meet the press daily." i'm