fight for racial equality, with people in the streets among a pandemic, and let's not forget with a presidential election under 90 days away, this might be the most critical time in decades to teach and encourage civics, our duties and rights as american citizens, how our government works, what should work, what needs work. by the time the young people of the year 2020 will become leaders they will be hardened veterans who know a thing or two because they've seen a thing or two. the civics spring project launched by the organization formerly known as the woodrow wilson foundation is providing organizations with grants, money to establish incentives this summer to help young people

build their own civic knowledge and capabilities and better their own communities. the six youth organizations all led by young people, all approach that engagement in different ways. there they are across the cro country. things like getting young voices heard in our government, getting involved in our government, registering to vote, putting their stamp on their own education. we are pleased to welcome to the broadcast the president of the organization formerly known as the woodrow wilson foundation. raj vedecotta. we are also happy to be joined by emmanuel sippy, she's one of the student directors of the student voice team in lexington,

kentucky. welcome. raj, i was thinking of you as preparing this segment. there's so much civics going on, you must feel an incredible urgency for everyone to pay attention right now? >> absolutely, brian. it's an honor to be on the show and tell you about the civic spring project. the idea that young people wanted to engage and there was a critical need right now was the impetus for us to create the civic spring project. what better thing to do than to be able to harness the energy of young people, those who have been cooped up forp months at home, virtual learning and to use their energy and thinking to work directly in their communities to attack one of the issues from the pandemic, be it health, educational, be it economic, mental and having

young people take the lead on some of this work. >> sippy, thank you for being here. tell us how you're doing and tell us what you're doing where you live in kentucky. >> thanks for having me. it's an honor to be here. in kentucky with the prichard committee we designed a survey that reached students in kentucky and are in the process of analyzing that data. the idea of coping with covid project is to inform action around schools and changing how we think of youth activism. oftentimes we conceptualize students holding up signs and young people in the street. we can move from protest to policy making and change the ways in which young people are

involved, truly hoping that they can co-design solutions as we approach this next school year, whatever it looks like. we know that students as partners can be a really valuable strategy for addressing both the pandemics of systemic racism and covid-19. >> emmanuel, what if you took over the policy making around mask wearing? we broke it through or divisiveness and partisanship. if we turned it over to you, what would your advice me around ending the politics around the least invasive way to protect ourselves? >> it's so similar to the way we think about our work for education. it shouldn't be partisan. unfortunately some folks have

made it so. all students being able to learn, all people being able to breathe shouldn't be debatable. i think if young people were to enforce that policy as we're hoping to influence others we might create a more just world. >> raj, talk about how you scale these six initiatives and how you get these good ideas. i have an 8-year-old. innocence doesn't describe his view of the world because of television. maybe less cynical. how do you scale that to the whole country? >> nicolle, we do what you did. you asked emmy for her even put on what should be done. we have to bring youth to the table. we have to do it in a deliberate

way. prichard is great way to build the data, do research, build a knowledge base and make efforts into new policy. emmy just came out of a hearing where they presented to the state board what they were learning in this initial analysis. she's demonstrating time and again that young people can be part of their solution making. it's incredibly important. the second way i would answer this -- >> raj -- >> we're doing research around this to learn how young people can take up these capacities so they can do the same thing in their communities. >> raj, you're at the head of this. you have the best viewpoint. are you ready for everything we've just piled on, you and emmy and all of your colleagues? >> the good news is emmy tells

me she's ready and so do five other grantees. we only had our applications for three weeks and we had more than 1,000 inquiries. young people want to do this. we need to partner with them and provide them some of the guide posts to develop the habits and practices so they can be really leading the civic engagement and hopefully improvements around our society. >> raj and emmy, it's been an honor having you. here's my invitation to come back and give us a progress report. thank you both for coming on. nicolle, we should note this is a big day for march for our lives because the announcement by the new york attorney general to try to dismantle the nra, the young people who put together

march for our lives are forcefully optimistic today. civics as much as anything we just discussed, just called by a different name. >> yeah. when you and i look for silver linings in the stories we cover, there is this awakening. i think one of -- i look for silver linings on social media as well. there's a flattening of the way information is spread. there's also communities that maybe didn't have power or access that can now burst out and reach other audiences. i think it's important to do segments like that. thank you for bringing that to all our attention and for letting us spend time on that. thank you for spending so much of the hour with us. >> thanks for having me. >> we'll be waiting for you at 11. i always watch and i'm always amazed how much the news changes at 11:00.

thank you my friend. >> thank you. surprising new poling that could shape the control of the u.s. senate. plus, as joe biden gets closer to naming a running mate we get our first look at the state of play for 2020. we'll be right back. we're at the movies and we need to silence our phone.

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we're now less than three months from election day and joe biden is likely just days away from making his vice presidential announcement. his campaign is finalizing the vetting process. axios is reporting that biden confidants believe he's narrowed down the choices to kamala harris and susan rice. joining our conversation "washington post" contributor former democratic congresswoman donna edwards and professor of politics jason johnson.

he's an msnbc political contributor. i think vp selection is worthless and my palin experience makes it traumatic. what are your thoughts? are we skipping over the a-ha of this? these are two qualified women. one of them will face off against mike pence and that should send fear through the entire trump organization, donna. >> well it should. when i think about the choices the former vice president has, he's had a tremendous array of talent in front of him. this comes down to a deeply personal choice, as well as a political one. if i were mike pence, i would really worry. frankly donald trump should worry. part of the role of the vice presidential nominee is to be able to get out there, be on the

stump and hammer away at president trump. i think either of these two women, and others, would do exactly that. i don't like to speculate. i'm really looking forward to the choice. >> you know, jason, i know that normal candidates look for a partner to run the country should they win. i reported this earlier and i think it was misconstrue. the trump organization views this as a casting for the vice presidential debate. my reporting suggests they're most anxious of senator kamala harris, that she could chew up and spit out mike pence. obviously that's not the only criteria for joe biden. from the psychological impact that that choice would have on the trump campaign, seems

they're already psyched out and they have the opposite frame around the more debates are more strategy for donald trump. >> yeah, i agree, nicolle. senator harris would do a very good job of taking down mike pence. mike pence was a radio host. he's not incapable, but senator harris would do a much, much better job. i think susan rice would do a better job. i suspect the entire debate would boil down to benghazi, benghazi. at this point speculation is filling the space. when it comes down to it, both of these people are capable, both are qualified. one is better known. i push back on this notion that the obamas would be more enthusiastic if it was rice instead of harris. i'm pretty sure that barack and

michelle obama are going to excited no matter who he picks. it's a personal decision. i don't think he can lose with either of these two candidates regardless of how much republicans seem to have for z resurrecting old conspiracy theories. >> i want to put in front of both of you the electoral map. i've never worked on one that looked this bad. i've worked on winning campaigns, losing cam papaigns a tie. i understand that the trump campaign shows florida a little closer than what we have it, but to have arizona leaning democratic, to have michigan out of reach, to have new hampshire, north carolina, pennsylvania and

wisconsin basically lost causes, donna, this is daunting. >> it really is. if you're donald trump looking at that map, that campaign must be trying to calculate where in the world can we possibly win. some of those states as you pointed out should not be on any list for a democratic candidate to be running and running strong in. you pointed to arizona. look how close texas is getting. look at florida and georgia, north carolina. as i said before, better to be at this point 89 days out in joe biden's shoes than in donald trump's shoes. >> jason, one of the impacts of this really strong map for joe biden and for democrats is that lindsey graham is in danger. his challenger there jamie harrison also polling at 44%. what would the psychological

impact to defeat donald trump's mini me in the senate? >> this is -- i'm sure everybody remembers, this is like years ago where republicans knocked out tom dashell. it was like whoa. you're not supposed to go after the generals. this would be massive if lindsey graham loses. he is up against a formidable candidate, a candidate from south carolina and a candidate's whose message is, okay, look this isn't even about trump. what kind of bacon is lindsey graham bringing back to the people here? that's the strategy democrats have figured out. you can argue about trump. if your senator is spending more time yelling and screaming at impeachment hearings than he is building roads, building bridges and re-opening hospitals, maybe it's time for a change.

jamie harrison has run an excellent campaign. >> i think jamie harrison is running as his own man. lindsey graham is most often photographed more akin to donald trump's caddy. jason, donna, thank you for spending time with us today. after flattening the curve, new york city is taking extreme measures to keep its citizens safe and keep the coronavirus out. that story is next. what if i sleep hot? ... or cold? introducing the new sleep number 360 smart bed... now temperature balancing, so you can sleep better together. can it help keep me asleep? absolutely, it intelligently senses your movements and automatically adjusts to keep you both effortlessly comfortable. can it help with snoring? i've never heard snoring. exactly.

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this might only be a good news story for new yorkers. new york taking extreme measures to keep coronavirus out of our city and state. officials are tracking out of state visitors. this is welcome news to any of us locked down and suffered so much. tell me how it's going over there. >> well, it's impossible to stop everybody coming into the city. there are check points, but they're not check points like military check points. there are representatives from the sheriff's department at tunnel and bridge crossings who are stopping random cars. they're giving people information. they're reminding them that it is a requirement to quarantine for 14 days when you come into the state from one of those other 34 states or puerto rico. now that new york's numbers are

so so low and we want to keep them that way, they're trying to enforce this. they're trying to convince people to cooperate to keep these numbers down. >> it's an amazing sign of the times. nbc's ron allen in new york. thank you for that report. coming up donald trump's favorite plot forms say enough. "deadline white house" next. boost mood. sleep well. stress comfort comes naturally, only from nature's bounty here's your iced coffee! ♪ america runs on dunkin'

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hi, everyone. it's 4:00 in the east. donald trump's most favored forums for main lines disinformation finally reached their red line. lies about children and the deadly pandemic. facebook and twitter on wednesday took extraordinary action against president trump for spreading misinformation after his campaign and official accounts broke their contract. president trump said children are almost immune from covid-19. twitter required his campaign to remove a tweet and it sent facebook and twitter over the edge that kids are almost immune. it was a comment that trump has repeated over and over in clouding from the white house podium. we'll hear more from a doctor

why that claim is so dangerous and false. first a look at the president's new reality. six months into the coronavirus pandemic and 89 days from election day that some of his most egregious lies come with a warning from facebook and twitter, comments like these. >> at lot of people think it goes away in april when the heat comes in. we're in great shape. we've bought a tremendous amount of hydroxychloroquine, hydroxychloroquine. there are signs it works on this. very strong signs. i just think it's something -- you know the expression i've used it. what do you have to lose? then i see the disinfectant knocks it out in a minute. one minute. is there a way we can do something like that by injection inside or almost a cleaning? i would like you to speak to the medical doctors to see if

there's anyway you can apply light and heat to cure, you know, if you could. maybe you can, maybe you can't. i'm not a doctor. i'm a person that has a good you know what. it will go away like things go away. absolutely, no question in my mind it will go away. >> the you know what. this critical move new check on misinformation coming from the white house and it comes at a particularly precarious moment for the health of the country. the nations top doctors warning the prevention measures that trump is meh on or out right opposes are needed more than ever. dr. birx who is operating covertly after falling from under attack from the president reports that ten major regions across the country have numbers

that are alarming. this is according to a private phone call with state and local officials obtained by the center of public integrity. it's not been confirmed by nbc news. dr. fauci elaborated on that warning. >> what dr. birx is saying now is the time to accelerate the fundamental preventive measures that we all talk about, masks, social distancing, avoiding crowds, outdoors greater than indoors, washing hands et cetera. those kinds of simple things can prevent that uptick from becoming a surge. she was warning the states and the cities to be careful because this is a predictor of trouble ahead. >> as cases and deaths rise steadily, projecting nearly 300,000 deaths before december, alarming scenes that people may

be starting to give up on testing. quote, u.s. testing for the coronavirus is dropping even as infections remain high and the death toll rises by 1,000 a day. a trend officials attribute to americans being discouraged by waiting hours for a test and waiting for days or weeks for a result. that's the testing that donald trump has hailed as the best in the world. the disinformation campaign is where we start today. dr. gupta a back. "new york times" political reporter and white house reporter ashley parker. ohio governor mike dewine, one of the earliest republican governors to walk the walk with wearing a mask, canceling large gatherings and locking down his state, tested positive because

he was supposed to meet with donald trump. i know a lot of reporters have access to same-day tests because they're in proximity to donald trump. can you talk about the divide in america between those who have access to same day tests and the rest of us? >> that's right. what you're seeing in the president's orbit is a microcosm of why widespread testing is to important. if you look at the last week, how many people who were asymptomatic or didn't know they had coronavirus found out they had it simply because they had to get tested before seeing the president. governor dewine, congressman lou lou louis gommert. how many other people are walking around asymptomatic? because there's no widespread

testing, the testing the president gets and the people in his orbit, doesn't exist in the rest of the country. the tests are useless if it takes a week, ten days, almost two weeks to get a result back. what you need across the country is what you're seeing in the president's orbit and that's not the case right now. >> dr. gupta, this is something you talked about. you brought your prop a couple times and i appreciate it. the truth is a lot of people who would like to know if their quarantine bubble is infected are discouraged by getting a tests because by the time the results are back it's rendered useless. >> that's right, nicolle. layering on to what ashley said, there's the haves and there are the have knotnots. if you're waiting in line to see

the president on a tarmac in cleveland you'll have access to a rapid test. if you're a health care worker, teacher, child, you don't have access to that test. the president said that 50% of all the tests available are rapid tests. it's more like .5%. if you're in the orbit of the president, it's probably 100%. one of the issues here is resources. these tests are expensive. they're hard to get a handle on. we need more people to have access to those tests. if you're affluent, you have a better chance of getting that than an inner public school system. that has repercussions for parents, students and teachers. >> nick, dr. gupta brought us to where we started which on the

topic of the president and lying about the pandemic. facebook and twitter are taking the lies down and preventing their spread. what does that mean? what line was crossed for them? obviously people have been lying on those forums, including russian military accounts that impacted the 2016 election, now for years? >> nicolle, for those of us who professionally follow facebook it's a bit of a game to understand what is the line and how can someone like president trump cross it? in this case we saw that the misstatement, the misinformation was a medical issue. it wasn't inflammatory or political speech. it was not a call for attacks or violence. it came from a campaign account, not his personal account. it's interesting as a company that basically in my sense of it is kind of making up the rules

as it goes along or modifying or adjusting them to avoid political problems, this was a line that could not be crossed for the campaign. it's important because pound for pound and dollar for dollar based on his bully pulpit, his reach on social media and the fact that his words are always paid attention to, there's no bigger spreader of m misinformation than president trump. what he says matters. how we in the immediamedia hand he says is equally important. >> if his lies were so egregious, and i take your point that it was his campaign in terms of facebook taking it down. what are we doing? if the lies are so egregious that a platform like facebook

took it down, why would any broadcast network air what facebook deems to be dangerous public health information about children? >> it's an important question you can ask all of us in the media including me. i'm not an editor. i don't make print decisions. there's a balancing act between covering what the president is saying and making sure you don't mislead your viewers or readers. a newspaper reporter can put a phrase after a quote to basically guide the reader. a tv organization can put something under what the president is saying, but it's hard for us. we have to think carefully about whether we're going to amplify something he's saying we know is not true. >> i think you have struck on something that's an overdue conversation.

disinformation in the time of a deadly global pandemic taking the lives of 1,000 americans a day seems dangerous. what would the medical community like us to do when the president lies about the pandemic? >> do exactly what you're doing, nicolle. you're giving a platform to public health experts. you're giving me a platform to push back. i'm grateful. specifically on the issue of children, this issue that facebook and other tech companies have had to referee on, let me be clear to your viewers. if you're a parent to a child that is about to start school in a place like arizona since the governor there is still not say taking the recommendations of his school board, if you're a parent or teacher, this is the truth. children have higher levels of virus, especially younger children, in their nose than even adults. whether they're symptomatic or

not does not matter. they can transmit the disease more easily or as easily as adults. children can get infected with high levels of covid-19 and transmit it to teachers and staff. this is hugely consequential for outbreak control, for how we test. there's a study in a jama saying we need acute 48 hour testing to keep colleges open and safe. this is consequential. i'm glad they took down the president's messaging. >> they took down one message. if you look at his twitter feed, there's all sorts of misinformation about kids and schools. he said in germany, denmark, norway, sweden kids are open no problems. the dems think it would bad to open schools before the november election. may cut off funding if not open. no fortune 500 company outside

of manufacturing or maintaining the food supply has demanded 100% in-person working. why are we sending children out? it's like asking children to storm the beaches of normandy. what is happening? what is this debate about for trump? >> for the president it all started a couple weeks ago when his economic advisers said for the economy to re-open parents have to be able to go back to work. for parents to be able to go to work they can't worry about home schooling their children, ergo schools need to be opened. the president took that and latched on schools being re-opened and has been preaching that message repeatedly. how did we get here? why are we having this debate?

because it's something the president is pushing because he believes it will help the economy. that's not necessarily true. parents don't feel comfortable sending their kids back. what the president is saying is getting amplified on some platforms. there's a larger movement where the president is being dismissed and treated as a nonentity. we know what he's saying about schools. look at schools across the country. some of the largest school districts announced when they return in the fall it will be all distance learning. some governors and school districts are doing what they believe is best regardless of what the president may be spouting. >> ashley raises an important point. it's the degree to which donald trump has dealt himself out of the three big movements, waves rolling over this country, the push that spilled into our streets around racial

inequality, the groief around te public health crisis and the fear surrounding the pandemic and then the economic collapse, just the collapse of the economy as we knew it prepandemic. what do you think about how that vacuum has been filled? obviously joe biden is his opponent. he's come in and he's been a contrast in stability and safety and doing all the right health issues. where do you see other parts of that vacuum being filled? >> well informationally and politically the void is being filled by governors cuomo and dewine, by anthony fauci. there's a compounding issue where president trump gets angry that the focus is shifting to those people. he has only himself to blame. people are dealing him out because he's not proven himself

trustworthy on factual information. people are confused. by changing statements and misinformation from the podium, from his mouth, from air force one. they're tuning him out. that might be good news in one sense. from a public health perspective, there's no substitute for having a strong consistent message from the president's desk. at the moment we haven't had that. >> dr. gupta, let me give you last word. i appreciate what you're saying. i think we can all do better. there's something disorienting about a president speaking and the public ignoring him. what's in the best interest of the country when he speaks about the pandemic? >> i mean, nicolle, what we need to president to do is be deferential. what's in the best interest of the country is the president

telling, allowing governors and mayors in the states in which governors are lagging on action, whether enforcing a mandatory mask policy, whether it's looking at the evidence when it comes to opening schools or closing them down based on infection positivity ratings. in washington state the governor introduced a scientific driven decree saying this is what you should do when it comes to school districts and how they're approaching re-opening. we need the president to empower governors and mayors to do the right thing, listen to experts, listen to the scientific data coming out every week. >> dr. gupta, ashley, thank you both for starting us off. nick is sticking around. closing in, donald trump's long time favorite bank turned over his detailed financial records and statements to new york investigators.

what it means, what's next? we'll talk it through. the daily displays of hypocrisy from the trump administration, if they're keeping you up at night, you're not alone. an honest conversation with michelle obama might be what this nation needs. plus, what the gop might be up to when it comes to kanye west. all those stories coming up. what do you think? i don't see it. only pay for what you need. ♪ liberty. liberty. liberty. liberty. ♪ (dad vo) life doesn't give you many secobut a subaru can. (dad) you guys ok? (vo) eyesight with pre-collision braking. standard on the subaru ascent. the three-row subaru ascent. love. it's what makes a subaru, a subaru.

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more new details emerging on the scope of the manhattan district attorney's investigation into donald trump.

"the new york times" reporting that they have reported donald trump's long time lender and the bank provided vance's office with detailed records including financial statements that mr. trump provided to the bank as he sought loans. the times goes on to report documents were sought on various topics. joining us now tim o'brien and nick is back. nick, i wanted you to stick around and take me through the "new york times" reporting on this. it seems like the development where the story is heading is that cy vance's office knows more than we understood before and the bank has opened the doors and shared donald trump's finances with cy vance's investigators.

>> that's right, nicolle. the story shows that the president's personal bank, his controversy and sketchy bank in some respects, has turned on him and turned over records about how he valued properties when applying for loans or financing. this is potential criminal exposure on those questions. that's what makes this interesting. this is not an investigation -- i should say it's hard to imagine this investigation ever happening if donald trump had not run for president and has his finances and taxes been the subject of a political dispute and great reporting by my colleagues at the "new york times." i think there's a pretty good chance that some of the tax evasion that was documented by "the new york times" in 2018 is now what they're reviewing as part of this investigation. >> tim o'brien to build on

nick's point, some of that reporting came from mary trump, donald trump's niece, and some of the leads came from michael cohen. investigators have a deep view inside the family and inside the trump organization. >> yeah. we've had these various ways of understanding who donald trump is. he's emotionally and psychologically damaged. he has issues around competence. the money trail is also an important way to understand what motivates him both in his business and currently as president. deutch bank unlocks a key on this. other big banks wouldn't deal with donald trump. deutch bank did. donald trump throughout his career concerted with members of organized crime in atlantic city and in his real estate dealings.

he has transactions overseas that could shed light on his aftfinity for vladimir putin. just to shade a little bit of what nick was saying, i don't know that deutch bank has turned on him. they have to respond to a subpoena here. they've spent the better part of two decades working closely with him. i don't think this would have come to light but for the fact that cy vance is working on this and based on michael cohen's testimony that said trump routinely inflated the value of his assets to banks and insurance companies. those are big areas here. >> i don't know that nick meant

turned on him in a personal matter, but cooperating with investigators is through trump's view turning on him. he just commuted the conviction of roger stone because he lied to investigators. there's an a-ha for deutsche bank. what for a nonbusiness mind does that look like? when you look at the guts of how donald trump operated, is it felony crimes?unsavory? is it stuff you go to jail for? donald trump is an unindicted

co-conspirator in a campaign finance case. what kind of legal exposure does donald trump have? >> all the above. he has criminal exposure. if there are felonies here, it's not just donald trump. it possibly involves members of his company. this is a local prosecution, not a federal prosecution. he won't be able to pardon any of the people targeted here. they will have a big incentive to turn on him. that complicates his life. obviously there's pure financial conflicts of interest and reputation al damaal damage he . if they look at the financing of the trump soho hotel which was very sketchy or his interest in getting deals done in russia or elsewhere overseas and the extent to which deutch bank facilitated that on donald trump's behalf to mask

transactions or to cover up transactions with unsafery individuals it creates problems for donald trump and those all could possibly continue after he leaves the presidency and he'll lose what he has left at that point of executive insulation from the consequences of some of these things. >> nick, last word. >> this is a story that will probably end after he is re-elected or not and that raises the stakes for president trump. if he loses re-election, he's not going to be able to wield the machinery of government to insulate him in the same way from these kinds of prosecutions if the prosecution emerges. >> tim, nick, thank you for making sense of all these developments for us. super interesting. we'll keep watching. after the break michelle obama expressing something many

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police in colorado apologized for this terrible scene where four black children ranging in ages from 6 to 17 were ordered to lie down on concrete pavement where police

officers mistakenly thought their car was a stolen one. stories like that, people suffering from illness, death, economic despair all weighing heavily on this country. michelle obama opened up on her podcast speaking how it's impacting her. >> i've gone through those emotional highs and lows where you just don't feel yourself. spiritually these are not fulfilling times, spiritually. i know i'm dealing with some form of low grade depression, not just because of the quarantine, but because of the racial strife and seeing this

administration dealing with it is disheartening. >> joining me now is former senator donna edwards. i want to start with what michelle obama said. i heard of other people in my life, i have felt the way she described, i've heard other public figures describing this. i never heard it said out loud for others to grab on to it. she continues to lead, not just as sort of a public official and role model, but as someone we can plug into, donna edwards. >> i think that michelle obama saying out loud what so many of us have felt which is this convergence of this horrific mention, this president, the

pandemic, the racial unrest, all of it weighing down on us and i've heard friends and family members express the same thing, that it really is a weight that is hard to describe and she did. it's real. every time you see a video like the one you played earlier it's another weight bearing down on all of us. i thought it was really an important thing for her to be able to express out loud what so many of us are feeling and so cheers to her for doing that. it's something that's really difficult to talk about, to feel weak about and to feel like you can't really express it and she did. >> stewart stevens, our last conversation was over text. i think the first thing i said to you was i feel deep despair

about the decembimation. how do you feel? >> i feel the same way. i've given up that the republican party can be rehabilitated. it's going to have to go through a deep period of losing. out of that will hopefully come some sound policy and some sort of morally focussed governing party sensibility. i don't know who can explain what it means to be a conservative or republican now. if somebody held a gun to my head and said tell me what it is, i would say shoot. get it over with. i don't know. i don't think anybody can with any credibility. >> donna, what of the opportunity? i happened to actually watch --

disclo i rewatched oprah winfrey's interview with michelle obama on her bock. i w book. i wonder what opportunity democrats have to take people and welcome them in and not in a policy way. we'll disagree on policy, but as leaders in the conversation, as leaders of the country in this historically difficult moment. >> throughout her time in the white house michelle obama was able to relate to people in the most human way. she continues to do that now. i think that the opportunity is that we do have, whether they are republicans who can't quite find an identity in the republican party right now, or democrats who feel like it's tough to get over that hurdle,

that there is some unity around ideas like the rule of law and adherence to our constitutional principles and moral values and to ethics and to just human decency that i think is unifying. somebody like michelle obama can articulate that in a way that doesn't feel overtly political, but deeply human. >> michelle obama's podcast is described as the closest things to fdr's fireside chats right now. you're one of the smartest communicators in this country. i can't think of anyone that's more authentic right now in the larger conversations we're having as humans than michelle obama. can you? >> no. she's an extraordinary figure, just extraordinary.

she's also a really good writer. >> yeah. >> i think what's interesting here is what it says also about vice president biden and his role in this campaign. we could be in one of those moments where what he has is very needed by the country. the country is in a period of grief. joe biden is someone who has experienced more than most people -- deep grief and has rebounded and can process it and help the country process it. he has a fundamental decency. i think the country is longing for that. i think it's more about the soul of the nation. what does it mean to be an american? we're asking fundamental questions. i hope that's what this election turns on. >> we were going to talk about kanye west. i want to have that conversation. stay with us. that

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donna, i want you to pick up on what stewart said about joe biden being just what we need to help us with our grief. you don't need to have lost a loved one to grieve for the 150,000 who have. that's people that were alive five months ago that are gone

now. >> the reality of covid touching our lives, whether it's through getting the virus or having a family member or friend die from the virus, we feel that present weight on ourselves. as a friend reminded me, we have to go through extraordinary means just to stay alive that we're not accustomed to. joe biden given his history really does have the capacity to help us heal this nation. i ordinarily would not say one of the principle duties of a president is to heal the nation, but in this moment, that's absolutely true. he understands what it means to grieve, but he also understands what it means to get on the other side of it. we need a president who will help us get on the other side of that. >> yeah, i mean, stewart, to donna's point it's the getting

back uppedness that makes the story remarkable. losing your wife, losing children, these are the most unsurvivorable experiences of the human existence. he's back up. he's back in the arena. he's -- it's more than matching the moment. it's giving us a little of what we all need as a country to get back up after this. >> well, it's a hopefulness. if you remember back in the dark ages, like in 2000, hope was considered a great currency in a presidential race. >> yeah. >> usually the most optimistic candidate won, the one that could articulate and inspire vision of a hopeful, positive america. donald trump is a candidate of anger. when the country is in this sort of mood, i think part of the problem they're having is he can only do one thing.

he can only get madder. i think there's an exhaustion to that. hate is exhausting. it's one of the reasons that we've had parties of hate and elements of hate in our politics, but it's never been the dominant party before. that's why we're saying america is a positive, hopeful place, not a country that is angry. i think joe biden represents an alternative to that. >> let me read something you write in your new book. it isn't how republicans are talking to black voters that results in 90% or more refusing to vote for republicans. it's what the republicans are doing once elected. the fact they're so invested in the myth is revealing and

self-damning. at the root is that they the de facto white party of america know what's best for black folks. it's unfortunate that they don't get it. the willingness to go along with this is one of the most deadening aspects of being a former republican for me. >> i never thought we would see a president who represented -- i mean he's george wallace. had george wallace won the democratic nomination, i don't think the democratic party would have rallied around george wallace. the republican party has rallied around donald trump. the same weekend my home state of mississippi took down the

flag, donald trump was defending the flag. where did he end up? in a cultural war with nascar. it's a vision of 1978 racially divided queens that he's frozen in and always reverts back to. i don't think america is there now. i don't think america wants to be there. i think people want to move on. he's incapable of expressing that because he doesn't feel it. he's a racist so he reverts to racial division. >> donna, what do you think about the fact it's all out in the open? four years ago we had to look back as his practices as a business man. as mississippi took down the confederate flag essentially, trump was out there defending it. he's been revealed. >> i think stewart is right. we have a president who we don't

just get to hear what he says, which is bad enough, but we see what he does and what he inci s incites. it's the worst version of an america that doesn't exist anymore. he can't that and i think that if anything i think americans recognize this amazing, you know, quilt that we have across the nation and people want to aspire to that and not to the hatred and the division and the resentment that donald trump seems to wallow in and thrive on. >> donna, what a treat to talk to you today about the stories and stuart, a dearest friend from my time in campaigns. written a brilliant book. it is called "it was all a lie." after the break, celebrating lives well lived.

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♪ just over 100 days ago we showed you a picture for a really important reason. it was a picture of citizens bank park in philadelphia and we used it to illustrate the ongoing pandemic's shear horrifying tragic scale. this is what 46,000 people looks like give or take and in mid-april that's how many people died. as we sit here today, this is

our new sense of scale. nearly 160,000 people or roughly three of those ballparks filled to capacity. on top of that, the audience capacity at wimbledon's center court and radio city music hall, all of those venues combined. 160,000 souls gone. think about how many of these people had children, spouses, brothers, sisters, moms, dads, friends, co-workers, they're all victims, too. so when we talk about lives well lived we endeavor to do right by the people we cover and also by the people they leave behind. this is maggie grossi or aunt marjorie. her niece said she was a positive, generous devout catholic with a great laugh and a gift for story telling. when world war ii started she left nursing school to make parts for planes. two brothers went overseas to

fight and putting her life on hold to fulfill her duty to her country and family, not the last time. after the war ended she stayed home to be there for her ailing mother and older sister. she married at 37 and never had kids of her own and beloved aunt to 36 all of whom might as well have been her children. as we said, we want to do right by those she leaves behind. the niece we mentioned is our beloved colleague chris jansing in the middle. her aunt margie died at 94. chris remembers her as a person that loved her family until the very end. we love you, chris. thank you for watching and letting into your homes during these truly extraordinary times. our coverage continues with the fabulous katy tur after a quick break. when considering another treatment, ask about xeljanz

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♪ welcome to thursday. it is "meet the press daily." nearly 160,000 americans have died from coronavirus. people in this country are dying at a rate of 1,000 a day. another 1 million americans have now lost their jobs. and key unemployment benefits have expired. neither congress nor the white house can agree on a relief package. negotiators are meeting again right now for basically the