keep schools open. it's one thing to open them up, but you open them up, there's so much virus around it's inevitab inevitable it gets into the schools and the schools have to shutdown and it makes people sick and some people will die. we're not prepared. >> and it doesn't help mitigate the spread of the virus, especially when you have predictions that we could reach 300,000 deaths in this country by the month of december. thank you both. appreciate it. that does it for me on this friday morning, i'm yasmin vossoughian. "morning joe" starts right now. when they gaze upon yosemits, towering sacyoyas. your competitors moved their factories to prevent a playing

field and avoid liability to shift production to thighland and vietnam. thailand and vietnam. >> oh, thighland. that's homer simpson. the capital of course is wingler. nothing but chicken wings and chicken thighs. >> isn't that from tuscaloosa from your college days? >> it is. you have your dreamland and then your gillette and then your thighland. i got to tell you, by the time you -- it's not a pub crawl, it's a chicken crawl. >> touch them all. >> by the time you're done through that, you're crawling to class. i told you, as you know, i went to the university of alabama and

university of florida law school, proud to be an alum of both of them, great southern state schools. there's actually a guy on twitter yesterday with a dartmouth degree that was trying to explain to everybody that elites did not understand that thailand was actually pronounced thighland. it's a moment, a cult, the cult of trump, it's that reminds me -- alex we need this in the rotation. where mike pence sees donald trump puts the water on the floor so mike pence puts the water on the floor. that's all i have to say, willie. >> yeah. i thought we were going to roll the clip. that was the dramatic pause for the clip. we'll insert that in post production. if you're willing to go down and

die on that hill, the mispronunciation of thailand, there's nothing you won't go down with trump on. >> now you had the pinner pause. now you have the corson pause. we'll have the water soon. pinter of course won a noble prize. willie and i are working on our project in case you're wondering this early friday morning. we're trying to get our third noble prize for science -- >> you said too much already. >> i'm going to put it next to my green jacket. what year did i win the master's. >> '87. >> our apologies to larry. good morning and welcome to "morning joe" it's friday, august 7th.

we have associate editor for "the washington post," eugene robinson. msnbc contributor, victoria de-francesco, ceo of axios, associated press reporter jonathan lemire. and historian john meacham. willie, let's start with the news. >> let's get into it. we begin with new coronavirus numbers. the united states now exceeding 160,000 deaths since the pandemic began. america has reported nearly 4.9 million covid-19 cases. keeping a close eye on hot spots like florida where yesterday there were 8,000 new cases reported. and in texas, at least 300 new

deaths for the third day. california continues to grapple with a technical glitch in the covid-19 tracking system. officials say it's impacting response efforts statewide. a new prediction from the university of washington, the key covid-19 model suggests the number of deaths in america is expected to climb to nearly 300,000 by december 1st. >> good lord. >> the model the white house has used and a lot of people looked at. but researchers claim if 90% of americans wore masks when leaving their homes the number of deaths would drop by 66,000. the report also predicts states might reinstate lockdown measures once the death rate reaches 8 per million. joe, when that number crossed

yesterday, it was staggering. talking about almost 300,000 deaths just over 160,000 right now. if that model plays out, let's hope to got it doesn't. you're looking at half again what we've seen already. >> for people that haven't been covering this closely, been covering this modeling very closely. it's bounced wildly back and forth but this university of washington institute has been one that the white house has used time and again. its estimates have actually been conservative more often than not. i think the president quoted them saying it might be 60,000, 70,000, not so many months ago. this is the problem with a pandemic. back when fools and political cranks and cult members were saying, it's just like the flu, having the same number of people get this that had the flu, health experts, doctors,

scientists, epidemiologists, they all talked about how quickly, how exponentially pandemics like this spread. so, of course, that's what happened. i'll be honest, i was hoping we would stay under 50,000 deaths in march. i didn't know that that could happen, but that certainly was a great hope. you notice, again, if you follow month by month by month, this spreads so quickly. and you notice, we're not -- we're not having the university of washington institute telling people, if you stay in your home for the next six months, if you shutdown your small business for the next six months, if you lock your children away and don't allow them to go to schools for the next smiixth months, no wha do they talk about? they talk about wearing a mask. it's simple. i don't remember in the founding documents or the federalist

papers or in the staging of "hamilton" either on broadway or disney, now streaming at disney plus but man you should look at peacock, peacock is awesome. >> there it is. >> i had to say that. peacock is amazing. i don't remember anybody talking about the right to kill yourself and others by not wearing a mask. this whole idea. i know it comes out of the trump cult thing for people who -- the extreme members of the trump cult about not wearing masks. but this study says if if we want to cut the deaths in america by how many? 50,000 or so, instead of 300,000 deaths by december we could have far less, just wear a mask. but the main thing to see with the numbers for those who still want to believe donald trump that this is going to magically go away.

it's not. look at the growth of the deaths month by month by month. what you see is a quickening pace. instead of what donald trump is saying it's slowing down, it's not. it's getting worse. more people are suffering. more people are dying. now is the time. there's always the time to change your behavior for all of us to change your behavior and take those precautions that can save your life and the life of your loved ones. >> and even that huge number, the 200,000 let's hope it's on the high end of things. and it assumes, that half of the country's kids don't go back to school full-time. the maddening part is it didn't have to be this way. that 50,000 number you predicted and thought about in march was a reasonable number. it was a terrible number but a reasonable number. now we're talking about 300,000

deaths potentially. ohio governor mike dewine tested negative for coronavirus hours after another test had a positive result. governor dewine first tested positive yesterday morning using a rapid test which allows for results in minute but was less accurate. it was part of the protocol for those greeting president trump on the tarmac. governor dewine then used a more standard procedure known as pcr and the results came back negative in the evening. the second test that looks for the material for the virus is known to be more accurate but it's time intensive. dewine's sample was run twice and came back negative both

times. jonathan lemire you're on the trip. this test was administered because governor dewine was going to meet president trump on the tarmac in ohio. what was the ripple effects on the news on air force one. >> i'm in new jersey today, don't be too jealous. not far from the president's bed minister club where he's spending a three day weekend. but perhaps now in my first line of career obituary note i was in the room when the president said thighland. the president spent the day in ohio, which is noteworthy. he won it in 2016 and now po polling shows it even with joe biden. he has to spent time, energy resources in states like ohio yesterday, in texas last week,

having to play defense. it was as we were about to take off from washington on air force one when we got news that the governor had tested positive and would not be able to be on the tarmac so he wasn't there when we landed. the president was greeted by other officials and representatives. he addressed it saying he hoped the governor would be okay. the entire day was centered around a speech. the president touted his economic policies, toured a whirlpool factory in ohio, to tout the manufacturing under his watch, which has stalled the last year or two. but he can't out run the virus, everything he tried to do was shadowed by this. and last night when we landed in new jersey we got word the second test was negative. in texas last week, the

congressman was going to be on air force one, he wasn't because he tested positive, seems other tests kantd it as well. but everyone that comes in contact with the president, staff, officials on the road, reporters, i took that same test that governor dewine did in ohio. but there's been false negatives at first or a false positive. it calls into question how accurate and safe these are for anyone, including those traveling with the commander in chief. >> there's been questions for some time about these rapid tests and how accurate they are. i do know, willie, that mike barnicle is thinking ahead, even after the pandemic is over, he may get a kit and any time he's invited to do something he'll do a dewine.

>> it's a good out. >> take the test, positive. i cannot go to your bridge game. and then take the real test a little bit later on. so mike dewine got out of being with the president, not that he would want to do that. but those tests are -- especially since you have those tests that have proven to be unreliable around the president of the united states. you wonder if there's not a better way to do it. the fact that the testing, gene robinson, that's being used around the president of the united states is so inaccurate tells you -- first of all, how dangerous that is for the country that our leadership can't even be tested safely, but also how poorly our testing regiment is, even six months into this. >> right. it definitely defeats the purpose of giving everybody a test who's going to see the president if you can't rely on the tests, right. so you have no idea if -- you

know, hopefully you have some idea. hopefully they're not 50% inaccurate or whatever. but clearly, in this high profile case and as jonathan said in other cases, this rapid test has been wrong. and that certainly does call into question its worth. and also it does raise questions. there's so much different kinds of tests, different manufacturers, different methods with different degrees of reliability. it is a patchwork that i guess you could better describe as a crazy quilt of testing. and again, that was one of the original sins in response to this pandemic was we never got the testing right. we never made it -- >> right. >> -- widely available enough, reliable enough. so we still don't have as good a

handle we ought to have on where the virus is and where it's going next. >> you know, it's a lack of planning and it's a lack of planning that's haunted this administration's approach to the pandemic from the very beginning. of course, it stops at the top where you had donald trump -- you're writing about going back to schools without a plan. you had donald trump, back in the spring, back in the spring when this pandemic was first erupting, saying people needed to go back to school. go back to school. he wasn't talking about it in the fall. he said in the fall the pandemic was going to be gone. believe me, trust me he said, it was like let's open businesses by easter. every step of the way this president has been wrong, been overly optimistic, been polly annish. and the impact for that has been deadly for americans, the reason the numbers are increasing exponentially. we had no plan, whether it was

reopening schools or a testing regiment. gene, i saw a picture that a student took in a georgia school about an hour outside of atlanta, those children were packed -- packed inside a classroom. i mean, inside a hallway. >> a hallway. >> most of them not wearing masks and, of course, the answer, what was the answer? they suspended the student who took the picture which, of course, tells you all you really need to know about how that school district and how others around that state are handling this pandemic. >> absolutely insane. absolutely insane. look, we all understand why it is imperative that as soon as we can safely do so we get the schools open. so if you decide to go ahead and open the schools, which i think most of the country is not ready for yet but if you decide to go

ahead and do it, the very least you can do is require every student to wear a mask all the time. how do you do that? the same way you enforce the dress codes at every school in america already. schools already dictate what students can and can't wear. you know, how -- you know, your skirt is too short or your pants are too baggy or you can't wear this or that, you have to be properly dressed to go to school. every school district in the country can mandate, right now, today, that proper dress includes wearing a mask, period. and then you would have a lot less transmission of the virus, a lot fewer hot spots of ballooning, mushrooming inflation of spread the way that we're likely to have in the absence of these kinds of

mandamans mandat mandates. it's an easy thing that could be done but not being done. >> how reckless of a school to allow students to be crammed inside of a hallway without any masks. we have a lot more to talk about. when we come back we'll talk about joe biden's interesting take on hispanics, on blacks, and cocaine. how's that for a tease? "morning joe" will be right back. " will be right back find your keys. find your get-up-and-go. find pants that aren't sweats. find your friends. find your sense of wander. find the world is new, again. at chevy we'd like to take you there. now during the chevy open road sales event, get up to 15% of msrp cash back on select 2020 models. that's over fifty-seven hundred dollars cash back on this equinox.

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please clarify, specifically, have you taken a cognitive test? >> no, i haven't taken a test. why the hell would i take a test? come on, man, that's like saying before you got on this program you take a test whether you're taking cocaine or not? are you a junkie?

>> what do you say to president trump who brags about his test and makes your mental state an issue for voters? >> if he can't figure out the difference between an elephant and a lion, i don't know what the hell he's talking about. >> vice president joe biden trying to make some point asking errol barnett if he should have taken a cocaine test. >> what point is he trying to make? >> i wish i could help you. >> you could just say yes or no there. >> no, i don't need to take a test. so joe biden, that was a couple days ago. now today clarifying remarks he made after suggesting the latino was more diverse than the black community. president trump wrote about it on twitter saying joe biden just lost the entire african-american community. what a dumb thing to say. >> mr. charlottesville said he's

lost the entire -- did he really say that, willie? >> he wrote it down. >> i was working on our science project yesterday. did he really say that the man who had david duke praising him for his moral equivalency with nazis and protesters did he really say he lost the african-american community. >> yes, when you were putting the mentos in the coke bottle -- >> it blows up. i got video of it. >> this is a guy who said to jonathan swan of john lewis, he didn't come to my inauguration. the president only included part of the former vice president's exchange he first made the comment in a conference of black

and hispanic journalists. >> are you going to reengage with cuba? i'm specifically wondering -- >> yes. >> -- about the florida communities -- >> yes. >> -- that are incredibly interested in in the cuba issue -- >> yes. >> -- and see status given to venezuelans while cubans are being deported. >> yes. i'm going to engage. what you know, but most people don't know, unlike the african-american community with notable exceptions, the latino community is a diverse community with different attitudes about different things. you go to florida you find a different attitude about immigration than you do than when you're in arizona so it's a diverse community. >> then while addressing a group of latino elected and appointed

officials yesterday the former vice president continued to make that argument. >> we can build a new administration that reflects the full diversity of our nation and the full diversity of the latino communities. what i mean full diversity unlike african-american communities, other communities, from everywhere, from europe, the tip of south america, to the border in mexico and in the caribbean. and different backgrounds, different ethnicities, but all latinos. we're going to get a chance to do that if we win in november. >> so when the backlash hit last night. vice president biden sought to clarify his remarks. he tweeted in no way did i mean to suggest the african-american community is a monolith. throughout my career i've witnessed the different of thought, sentiment within the african-american community it's

this diversity that makes our work places, communities and country a better place. i will always listen, i will never stop fighting for the african-american community and i will never stop fighting for a more equitable future. but his point is clear, the latino community has more diversity in it than the latino community. >> if you're looking politically, it does. i'm more concerned by the cocaine comment than joe biden analyzing the political backgrounds of groups. victoria, my complaint of democrats over the past decades has been, and we've said it on the show, they seem to think of the latino community as this monolith of voters. yes, cuban voters in miami have a radically different political viewpoint on the whole as say puerto rico voters in central

florida or mexican voters in parts of texas. it is -- the democrats in the past have looked at the latino community as a monolith. and i think that's been a great mistake. you look at the black community, like evangelicals, politically at least, usually every four years, 85, 86, 87% of black voters will vote for the democratic candidate. in the hispanic community i think george bush got 40% of the vote, donald trump got in the low 20s. i think perhaps joe biden made that argument inartfully, didn't need to include the african-american community in the discussion but he does seem to recognize the latino community is not one giant

monolithic community. it's a diverse community politically. >> i completely once what vice president joe biden was trying to say but he said it incredibly inartfully, as you said, joe. it's about latinos having different dimensions of diversity than other groups in the united states and the two are country of origins and also in terms of generation. but i think when we're talking about the electorate, the real line of division and the one that matters at the polls is the country of origin and the story that brought you here. because what we see in florida is we saw a lot of folks who were fleeing the communist regime and when they get to the united states they have a strong sentiment against the castro regime and cuba and that's what has ultimately driven them to the republican party and what has formed that strong base that

trump has and trump knows it. 20% of eligible voters in florida are latinos. he's going after that vote extremely aggressively. on the flip side, joe, biden knows he's soft with some segments of the latino population. he knows that sanders beat him handily during the primary. he also knows the latinos have a segment of conservativism, of pro-life separate from cuba. he knows latinos don't turn out as they should be. so there is a lot for joe biden to be worried about and these inartful comments are not helping in a time he needs everything he can to boost the latino turn out and get latinos to come to his side. >> gene robinson i'm curious about your take on joe biden's

comments. yes, they may be inartful but it's the first time i heard a national democratic leader say what he's been saying, because again my criticism of the democratic party over the past decade or so they assume because there's a growing hispanic population, that's somehow going to lead to beneficial political outcomes. it's not that way. and let me say it, the hispanic community, the latino community is far more diverse than other demographic groups. politically. whether you're talking about black americans who vote for democrats or white evangelicals who vote overwhelmingly for republican candidates and conservative candidates, whether you talk about working class white men who have voted overwhelmingly for donald trump in the past. or suburban college educated white women who are going to be

voting disproportionately for joe biden coming -- most likely coming up this fall. what's your take on all of this, gene? >> i wrote a whole book about how incredibly diverse the african-american community is now. socially, culturally, economically, much more diverse than it was 50 or 60 years ago during civil rights movement. however, there's one aspect in which the african-american community really isn't very diverse at all, and that is political behavior. that is voting behavior. and since 1964, when barry goldwater who opposed the civil rights act was running for president on the republican ticket, since 1964, african-american have voted roughly between 85% and 95% for the democratic candidate.

it just happens. it's a perfectly rational reason. african-americans perceive the republican party as hostile to african-americans' interests and aspirations and with good reason i would argue. certainly in most of those elections. but that's just the way it is. so that point that biden was making was, as you said, that's a valid point. about the latino community. i think there may indeed be a tendency, among some democrats, to see latino as a political umbrella term in a way that it isn't and i would suggest that anyone with experience in florida elections would immediately disabuse people of

that notion. because, yes, absolutely. but, you know -- but democrats have an advantage in the trump era, because of how hostile trump has been on issues that are really important to many segments of that diverse latino community, immigration for example. and not all latinos see immigration the same way. but there are many latinos who are second generation, third generation, who do feel passionately about that issue. who watched what happened on the border with the separation of families and the caging of children in a way that felt very personal and made them very angry. >> you talk about the diversity

in florida among the latino community. i remember in 2016, when i started thinking that donald trump had a chance of winning florida, was when i talked to cuban-american friends in miami, a lot of cuban-american friends in miami-dade county who said, yeah, a lot of cuban-americans are going to be voting for donald trump in '16. and then, in '18, near the end of the election i made calls down to miami-dade and heard that a lot of cuban-americans were going to be voting for ron desantis and rick scott for governor and senator respectively. okay. and sure enough, you look at the results there, it had an impact. it's interesting, in 2020, i'm hearing regarding donald trump not so much. so at least -- at least from my friends in miami-dade. so we'll see how that goes. willie, we mentioned that donald trump's attempt to paint biden

as a racist, he was doing that off the latest comments, but we've been talk about this for a while on this show that donald trump, unfortunately for his campaign, can't take biden on on so many issues because it always opens donald trump himself up let's just take the issue of racism. >> he's a mexican. we're building a wall between here and mexico. the answer is, he is giving us very unfair rulings. donald j. trump is calling for a total and complete shutdown of muslims entering the united states. but trump comes along and says, birth certificate. he gave a birth certificate. whether or not that was a real certificate because a lot of people question it. i question it. look at my african-american over here. look at him.

are you the greatest. i don't know anything about david duke, okay. i don't know what you're even talking about with white supremacy or white supremacists. you wouldn't want me to condemn a group i don't know anything about. you also had people that were very fine people on both sides. >> the president using an explus sieve to describe africa and haiti. >> the president reaching a new low telling a group of progressive democratic congresswoman to go back and fix the crime infested places from which they came. >> we'll get to all of this. we also have donald trump's attempt to say joe biden doesn't have the mental abilities to be president. >> i say he's not competent to be president. to be president you have to be sharp and tough and so many other things. he doesn't even come out of his basement. >> defeat the coronavirus.

-- surgical coups. we have no con tin -- contingency plans. and sefay -- that's one million, 870,000 million tests. use the defense protection act. defense production act. hydroxychloroqui hydroxychloroquine. remdes -- i thank them for their unwaving -- unwavering devotion. pride and selflessness. transfusing it into sick patients -- six patients. i am confident by count -- >> take an action to suspend.

>> the inter -- internet made it so big. >> to the highest level of a actvision. since 1917, which was the spanish flu. 1917 the pandemic. like nobody has seen since 1917. >> of course, donald trump saying joe biden was too close to china. >> joe biden's policies put china first and america last. joe biden's entire career has been a gift to the chinese communist party and to the calamity of errors that they've made. they made so many errors. >> do you trust we're going to know everything we need to know from china? >> i do, i have a great

relationship with president xi, just signed a deal last night. i spoke to president xi last night we're working on the virus. it's a tough situation. but i think he's handling it really well. if you can count on the reports coming out of china, that spread has gone down quite a bit. the infection seems to have come down over the last two days, as opposed to getting larger it's gotten smaller. china seems to be making tremendous progress. their numbers are way down. >> and of course on january 24th he tweeted that the american people were grateful to president xi for being so transparent and doing such a good job on the coronavirus. here's another one. on monday trump's new campaign manager urged voters to judge the presidential candidates by the company they keep. >> i think you need to judge joe biden by the people's

surrounding himself with. at every step of the compaampai he has kowtowed to the radical left of the party we'll see the same when he chooses his vice presidential nominee. he's an empty vessel of the radical left, how he won the nomination in the first place and it's concerning that he is a pawn of the radical fringe of the aoc wing of the party. >> someone who was a member of the trump administration's inner circle takes a stunning fall, pleading guilty in a washington courtroom, former national security advisor michael flynn today admitting he lied to the fbi about his phone conversations with the russian ambassador. george papadopoulos admitted to lying to the fbi in its investigation of russian interference in the 2016 election. >> special counsel robert mueller has obtained another guilty plea this one from rick gates. >> what the conservative report

described as trump hell hour. his 2016 campaign chief paul manafort convicted by a jury on eight counts at almost the exact same time that trump's former lawyer, michael cohen, entered a guilty plea to eight counts. >> what does it say about donald trump that we have to take a break from talking about his investigation and rudy's criminal investigation out of sdny to tell you about another friend convicted in court. donald trump's longest serving political counselor, roger stone found guilty today on all seven counts against him. >> judge the people he's surrounding himself with, i agree, bill americans should. and this from yesterday, donald trump attacking joe biden's faith in god. >> he's following the radical left agenda. take away your guns, destroy

your second amendment. no religion, no anything. hurt the bible. hurt god. he's against god, he's against guns. he's against energy. our kind of energy. >> hurt the bible, hurt god. as stuart stevens said his money is on god. here's a reminder of donald trump's own musings on faith. >> have you ever asked god for forgiveness? >> i'm not sure i have. i just go and try to do a better job from there. i don't think so. i think if i do something wrong, i think i just try and make it right. i don't bring god into that picture. i don't. >> you know when i talk about the bible it's personal. i don't want to get -- >> it means a lot to you -- >> the bible means a lot to me but i don't want to get into

specifics. >> i heard this is a theme here, 2 corintians. when you hold up a bible -- and nobody loves the bible more than i do. when you hold up a bible, you don't put it down and go around lying and doing a lot of things that are wrong. >> yeah, and, of course, the latest example, the president ordered the clearing of peaceful protesters from lafayette park on june 1st in order to take this photo op, holding a bible in front of st. john's church upside down. and as senator langford said, i've grown up in the church and i've never seen anybody hold a bible that way. there's so much to talk about here. john meacham, i guess we'll give with you on the faith aspect of it. here's a man again, who by all outward appearances, i'm not judging his faith, i'm judging

the outward appearances and the things that he says and things that he does, and, of course, his claim that he's never asked god for forgiveness, anybody who's been to sunday school for ten minutes knows the central tenant of the faith is you are a christian when you ask jesus for forgiveness. but you also go through all the things he said, including yesterday saying that he hated that joe biden hated the bible and hated religion. and as a catholic editor of american magazine said, that is very typical anti-catholicism. this is what matt malone said. the charges that a catholic hates the bible or is ignorant of scripture is a classic form of anti-catholic bigotry, which is still very much in vogue.

and there's no doubt that donald trump exhibited anti-catholic bigotry when he was attacking joe biden yesterday for, quote, hating the bible. >> the president -- the incumbent president of the united states has no idea what he's talking about. and not that that's a news flash, but look at the thoughts there. joe biden is against god, against the bible -- four things really, against guns and against energy. so just let's parse that sentence for a second. god, the bible, guns and energy. what's a place in the country where those four factors, religion, scripture, guns and energy might be important? might it be red states that are being ravaged by the coronavirus that the president of the united states has singularly failed to address with a comprehensive

national plan? which is one of the few reasons we have a federal government. which is to coordinate responses in the face of emergency. so i don't even take it seriously, as a critique of vice president biden. i hesitate even to -- for us to spend much time talking about the substance of that charge, because it's not a charge. his mouth is moving. that's the only thing -- i don't know that it's connected to his brain. he's just trying to hold on to power. and that's the fundamental thing. he has amassed power through, you showed it a second ago, racist appeals, he's held onto it by awe peeling to the worst impulsives in the character, all the things that have held us back in the past. not the things that have pushed

us forward. and that's the fundamental question of the election. and we can talk about what joe biden says on zoom and whatever passing attack comes to the president's mind. but presidential elections don't always give us as stark a choice as this one does. and i don't think that's a partisan point. i think that any rational person, looking at this this race clinically sees that you have a pretty -- we have a pretty clear decision here. do we want to restore a conversation that defined the country for 70, 80 years, which was an argumentative one, often a corrosive one, always a ferocious one between the world view represented in many ways by franklin roosevelt and the other 35 yard line you have the world view represented by ronald

reagan and every president from the new deal through president obama governed on this field. and sometimes they'd be over here, sometimes over there. sometimes they get it wrong, sometimes they get it right. but that was a coherent field, that was the american consensus. the american consensus is what we're going to argue about. what's so disruptive and fundamentally corrosive about president trump is he invents things for us to argue about. he goes out and finds them. on the religious question, look, america as we've been talking about for several months has gotten a whole lot wrong about our sense of identity and incliei inclusion and who has equal access to justice and fairness and equality. one thing we have gotten right largely is religious equality.

george washington said every man should be able to sit under his vine and fig tree and none should make us afraid. you start saying people are against god and you are once again careening off a basic path we should stay on, get back on, which is to try to be not only a great country but a good one. >> and he -- you're right. it's not between those 35 yard lines represented by fdr on the left and ronald reagan on the right. he's doing -- i'll bring up ann applebalm's book again, if people want to understand what's going on in america, read her book. she discusses hungary, who has gain

gained almost absolute power, taken over the press, driven any voices of dissent out of the country for the most part. he does so by creating conspiracy theories about george soros and invading muslim hordes. of course, there are no invading muslim hordes in hungary. it's a complete fabrication, a set of alternative facts and that is the choice that we have this fall. donald trump, day in, day out, creates alternative facts. and those alternative facts are meant to divide us. and jim, we talked about race, we showed race. joe biden said some things that he had to apologize for on the issue of race. unfortunately for the trump campaign, they can't really use race as an attack if joe biden fumbles and then apologizes, there doesn't seem to be any opening. we showed the clips.

here's a man who attacked an indiana judge called him a mexico, said he couldn't trust him because he was from mexico when he was from indiana, his parents immigrated from mexico. the clip he claimed to not know anything about david duke, a lie. didn't want to attack the white supremacist, wouldn't say anything negative about the klan. we can continue, we can talk about john lewis. again, doesn't this seem to be the biggest problem for the trump campaign that whatever direction he goes in on an attack, joe biden has material that's going to, you know, outgun politically -- outgun their efforts 10 to 1, 20 to 1. >> is there a single african-american voter who's going to change their mind

because of what bachelor's degree -- of what biden said today, i doubt it. if you look at where they're spending money, visits, he's all in on cranking up the white vote. he's hoping wide america is big enough you can eke out a victory like he was able to do in 2016. they spend a lot of money in rural communities hoping there were people that didn't vote for him last time that will vote for him this time. he does little to reach out to the african-american community, hispanic community. it worked in 2016. the truth is for republicans watching the show, this was always going to happen, the country has been changing if you look at demographic, birth patterns it's becoming a diverse nation. at some point you're going to have happen what happened in virginia, what's happening in georgia now, texas, what you've

seen happen in florida, it's just a different nation. and there are some republicans that want to grapple with that, want us to think differently about immigration and other topics but then in came donald trump and to meacham's point he did take politics out of the 30 to 40 yard lines and move the republican party to a different place. i think it's a place the republican party stays in after donald trump. there's not a massive market inside the republican to go back to the ways of paul ryan or mitt romney or more conservative politics. i'm as surprised by it as you are, but that's the reality. so you are going to have more and more of this. like this nonsensical arguments whether someone is anti-god, wants to defeat god, which is weird and not productive. but it's your life until november. >> it is weird. you look at the clips, it's just

bizarre and strange that he's going to fight god and fight the bible, all those bizarre things. jim let me ask you quickly about wisconsin. you're from there. what's your latest take on how the presidential race is going? >> it's not looking good for donald trump. again, unless there's a massive hidden vote that we're missing, if you look at the polling in wisconsin, michigan, pennsylvania, and even in georgia and florida and texas, these polls are terrible. there's no other way to spin it. even the people around trump when you're talking to them, they're not arguing that they don't suck. they're terrible for him. so something would have to happen. there would have to be a change of trajectory, we'd have to find a vaccine, the economy would have to start to boom. joe biden would have to do something that became offensive to voters. that's what donald trump is trying to do. he wants it to be a contrast, like he should, between him and

biden and wants biden beholden to the left and be more liberal. and biden is more liberal than when he was vice president but he wants him to be as offensive to voters as hillary clinton was, including some voters that sat out the election in wisconsin. so wisconsin is not looking good for him. there's very few states i look at right now and say if i'm donald trump i feel good. i'd be more worried that places like south carolina, georgia, texas, places we shouldn't be talking about we're talking about. >> jonathan lemire you were on that trip with the president yesterday to ohio. a trip about economic recovery, something he was supposed to lean into a little bit to say the economy was going to come back but that may be disputed by the july jobs number we'll get in 90 minutes but on the tarmac where he said joe biden wants to hurt god, against energy he went

on to say our kind of energy. is there a feeling inside the white house that the president's efforts to attach joe biden to the radical left is working somehow? are they looking at the same polls that we are? do they believe that this idea that joe biden is a radical leftist who wants to get rid of your guns and your god is an effective strategy? >> willie, i talked to some of the people in trump's orbit last night. the president was at a fund-raiser outside cleveland and there was frustration about how the day went because they felt like amid all this he delivered an economic speech they thought had good points, defended his record, made his case, this is the one argument he is making for a second term. he did say, this is how i built up the economy the first time, pre-pandemic, this is how i can do it again. they felt that was sort of effective to your question about tying joe biden to the radical

left, i think that's a mixed bag so far but they had such little success with the china argument, the hunter biden argument, they feel there's something promising here. they say in their numbers they have seen some movement on this, so it's something they're going to try to stick to but it's for perhaps lack of a better option because the other arguments haven't worked. but yesterday the president's comments about joe biden wanting to hurt god sort of overshadowed a lot of this. joe biden is someone who has credited his faith for helping him overcome immense personal tragedy. joe biden as we often say is perhaps the most eloquent speaker in american politics on grief and he says his faith is a big part of that. he delivered a robust defense last night about his faith and how personal and important it is to him. instead, we have the president making these somewhat nonsen nonsensical attacks to drown out what could be some effective

maelking a making this, and all of this is in the shadow of the pandemic. really what this election has been so far seems to be a referendum on how the president has handled the pandemic and the polling suggests the american people do not think he's done a good job. >> he would like to talk about anything else. jonathan lemire we'll let you go and enjoy the vast bounty that new jersey offers. >> it's raining. let's turn to the lawsuit for the attorney general of the state of new york, letitia james that seeks to dissolve the national rifle association. james said they chartered in new york as a nonprofit almost 150 years ago has engaged in fraud and misspending for decades. according to the suit, the alleged use of nra's funds is he

took camping trips on a yacht owned by an nra contractor. the nra struck back claiming letitia james' action was politically motivated and violated their first amendment rights. they're also facing a suit against the charitable foundation filed by the attorney general of the washington d.c. joining us is john winter and dave aaronberg. >> you've been working on this closely, walk us through the details. we'll have letitia james on the show later by the way. walk us through the details of the lawsuit and what it accuses the nra of doing. >> it accuses not so much what the nra did but what wayne and three current and top officials of the nra did was use it for their own personal piggy bank.

they did a tremendous amount -- according to the complaint, a tremendous amount of self-dealing. you're talking about christmas gifts over a period of years, $65,000 that wayne had the nra pay and reimburse him for. approximately $.5 million in black car travel. $17 million nonboard approved post employment contract for wayne lapierre. you mentioned it before in the times article, the private jet travel he used as well as the private jet travel that was accommodated for his family members. you have an organization where the people at the top were able to give themselves some pretty nice gifts, nice perks. and the question going forward is, are we going to see a split within the nra, within its membership that gives money to the nonprofit where you have a situation they say you know what, we solve our legal headaches and keep the mission

of the nra going if we clean house at the top. on the other hand wayne lapie e lapierre. has been enormously effective as a lobbyist for the nra's causes for gun rights and gun manufacturers who the nra speaks for. so it'll be interesting to see where we go from here. >> the nra's pushback says the lawsuit is politically motiva motivated. the attorney general of new york doesn't like guns so they're going after the nra. what's the legal standing they have at the on this? >> the nra was founded in new york state in the 1870s so new york state and the new york state attorney general has the absolute authority to look at the nonprofit actions of the nra and to look at whether or not they're violating any sort of a new york state law or regulation as it relates to nonprofit so they have jurisdiction to look at this, so it'll be interesting to see and should be noted that

attorney general james did not rule out the possibility of criminal referrals. that would probably have to go to a local district attorney, but that's something that's definitely on the table. i think it's a smart strategy for the nra to attack election statements of james who came out harsh against the nra. it makes it seem like this is a political prosecution while at the same time glossing over the fact this isn't about the nra's statements or the way they operated as a nonprofit, this is more about the way that wayne lapierre and three officials have been running things as the allegations are for personal enrichment. >> dave, so if i'm a judge looking at this, i'm thinking quite a few things. based on what's out in the public domain, i think we have

not only liberal publications but also more moderate publications and even conservative publications agreeing these three men running the nra are corrupt and acted in a corrupt manner. but if i'm a judge, i'm going to ask the attorney general attorneys, if they come before me, why don't you go against the three board members and if you have criminal referrals, great. send out the criminal referrals. looks like they've done a lot of bad things and the real victims here are the dues paying members of the nra. i've been saying that for a year now. the people who are screwed by this are nra members who have been paying dues to the organization so wayne lapierre and a couple other guys can get rich. won't a judge be skeptical,

saying this is overly broad. you can't destroy an entire organization because the board has three members that have been acting in a horrific manner, that's number one. the second thing is, come on, what judge isn't going to raise their eyebrows at this because of the timing. we're coming up on one of the most important elections of our lifetime, why does this drop in august rather than december? don't you think most judges are going to look at this complaint and start with those two questions? >> joe, this will last long after the 2020 elections. remember, the attorney general's 166 page complaint says the organization has been so corrupted it's unsalvageable which is why they name the organization itself and that's how they can get to dissolving the organization, just like the attorney general did to the trump foundation two years ago.

this is a civil complaint, not a criminal one so no one is going to be put in handcuffs any time soon but there's a lower burden of proof here. so you're right about the judges but the attorney general doesn't need to prove the allegations beyond a reasonable doubt, that's a criminal standard. she only needs to prove it with a preponderance of the evidence, which means is it more likely than not that the defendants did it. this has been referred to the irs for potential criminal prosecution, but that's not going to happen in any trump administration, especially this close to the election so you may have to have a biden administration to do it, but the civil penalties here can be severe, sch include the disallusion of the organization. ask the trump foundation about that, they don't exist anymore: but the national rifle association is a far different organization than the trump organization. isn't a judge going to be far more reluctant to dissolve the

nra because of three corrupt board members than they were willing to dissolve the trump organization. >> you're right. there are 5 million members of the nra so that's true. but this is not just three rogue members. this is wain lapierre and three others who used the organization as a slush fund, wining and dining, limousine riding, all over the world. paying huge salaries and bonu s bonuses. they even allegedly paid employees with no show contracts to buy their silence. now wayne lapierre has pushed back saying this is all political. this is political persecution close to the election. but it seems the evidence comes from within the nra, a lot of whistle blowers have spoken out. the calls are coming from inside your house. including the long-standing advertising firm that the nra

used which knows where all the bodies are buried. there was a nasty break up between that group and the nra and they turned states evidence. i think this is going to go badly to the nra. if you're a contributor to the group, you may want to think twice about writing that next check any time soon. >> i think a lot of contributors to the nra have been deeply concerned about the corruption exposed as you said from people inside the organization over the past six months or so. dave, thank you so much. tom winter let me ask you the same question quickly. is there a chance a judge may look at this had and say it's overly broad? hey, you want to go after wayne lapierre and the people who were corrupt you can do that, you can send out your criminal referrals. you can't shutdown a 150-year organization with millions of members who had nothing to do with this conspiracy if, in fact, it is a conspiracy.

>> this is going to take a long time, first off. we're not done with this case in five or six months it's litigated for a long period of time. we're talking about a new york city state judge here, chances are from a political standpoint there might be a little bit more on the side of the attorney general here in this case. the third thing this depogoes b to the point you were making joe, what do people who donate to the nra, what do they want to have happen. if you're a member of the nra, the way to resolve this is clean out at the top and at that point the nra may make an argument we've done the things that were a problem from a legal perspective, we've gotten rid of those issues now we can continue on. to your point, joe, judge, why should we dissolve the entire organization? so it'll be interesting to see if there's a split between the current membership and

leadership. and for those reasons alone it's not something that's decided any time soon. >> nbc's tom winter, thank you so much. greatly appreciate it. willie, i guess my question is, since it's not going to be resolved for a long time, why bring it up right before an election? it doesn't seem to be anything but a plus for the president and it does look political? >> we'll talk to state attorney general letitia james in our next hour so we'll be able to put that question directly to her. we are at the top of the hour, close to it, anyway, let's bring in msnbc political analyst, susan dell pers owe, mike barnicle, donny deutsch is with us and he looks dark in that backdrop. and david wassermann.

gene robinson and victoria are still with us. >> donny, i'm going to give you time to get a flashlight from your kitchen and put it on your face, that would be awesome. dave wassermann, love having you on. let's talk about the state of play right now. and we'll start with what you specialize in, congressional races. how is it looking, the race to -- for republicans to take nancy pelosi out of the speaker's chair? >> joe, they could take a few steps backwards in the house. when i talk to strategists on both sides they're having trouble finding swing districts where president trump has any kind of lead let alone outside the margin of error. the problems for republicans are particularly acute in suburbs of traditionally conservative metro areas. so republican incumbents are in places in places like

cincinnati, st. louis suburbs, omaha, nebraska these are the suburbs that democrats didn't break through in 2018 but could pick up seats in 2020. in the past month alone we've moved over 30 races in democrats' directions in our ratings. >> wow. let's talk about nebraska. omaha first. i think a lot of people know there's that district that sometimes goes for democrats, rarely goes for democrats. is that omaha district, does joe biden have a chance of picking up an electoral vote there? >> on average in the private polls i'm seeing of that congressional race, joe biden is up seven points. >> wow. >> that may be the likelyiest trump territory from 2016 to flip to biden.

a lot of those polls aren't made public. but it's an extremely metropolitan piece of real estate. we talk about maine's second district which gives its electoral vote by district in maine. and joe biden is tied there. that's a district that voted for trump by ten points in 2016. so biden is recovering ground across the board. >> let's talk about, i think, one of the most important developments. the we've seen it have a huge impact since 2017, that's the abandonment of the republican party by suburban voters. i think about pete session's district, a guy i came into congress with, i think he may have come in '96. i would never thought in all the years i was serving with pete sessions, representing the suburbs of dallas, that he would ever be defeated because of

demographic changes. pete and i were both from two of the safest republican districts in america, and yet pete sessions lost in 2018. you're talking about suburbs in cincinnati and across the board. how does that play into a state like pennsylvania where the philly suburbs are always in play in the presidential races or the i-4 corridor in florida, counties in if florida like hillsboro. y do you suspect that's going to make donald trump's efforts to win states like pennsylvania and florida that much more difficult. >> the irony, joe, is that democrats are doing better in the sun belt these days because states like texas are more metropolitan than a lot of the northern great lake states of

pennsylvania, michigan, wisconsin. and dallas has gone from being competitive in 2018 to off the table it's so safe for democrat. now we're talking about plano, the district to the north being competitive. which is mind blowing to people who followed texas politics for years. but pennsylvania, florida, and north carolina if you talk to the trump data people they'll hang their hat on the gap getting narrower in those states. what's happening is that a lot of the older voters who, for lack of a better term, are exiting the electorate, they are disproportionally registered democrats who are conservative and voted for trump in 2016. yes, the registration gap is narrowing, fewer voters are registering to vote this year than did in 2016 because we're in a pandemic. that doesn't mean the states are

getting more favorable to trump. >> nbc came out with its first battleground map yesterday and it was jarring to see georgia and texas as toss up states. >> unbelievable. >> do you believe those two states are up for grabs in the presidential election? >> yes. and the fact that president trump is advertising in them is a sign that he doesn't understand the electoral map. he's got to recover nationally, close this gap by 4 points to get the presidential margin nationally within, you know, three to four to five points to have a shot. right now he's down about eight. and the fact that he's up in ohio and iowa, states that he carried by eight and nine points in 2016 says that, you know, h he -- he's trying to play whack a mole here. he needs to get those states in better shape before he competes

in the tipping point states, the six states he won by less than five that's where the presidential race will be decided. and today, joe biden is ahead by between four and seven points in if florida, south carolina, pennsylvania, wisconsin, michigan, those states are the ball game. >> we're talking about your back yard, victor, the president won texas in 2016 by eight or nine points. what has happened in the last three and a half, four years to tighten this race so much and give joe biden a fighting chance there? >> there is the opportunity of texas going blue. but this has been a long time in the making. remember it wasn't too long ago that republicans were winning this state by 20, 30 points. hillary clinton losing it in if single digits, it's a big deal because the democrats had been starting to lay the ground game, battleground texas. we're talking about pete

sessions just previously. we saw in 2018 i think the real call of democrats stepping youp. we saw delawares in previously safe districts go and the latino demographic grow. we're seeing the younger latinos frustrated because of the economy, frustrated at president trump's rhetoric starting to mobilize and turnout. the question mark is what is the effect of the pandemic going to have here? in texas there's a movement. on top of that, i think there's an overreach by republicans in the state. with governor abbott and lieutenant governor dan patrick so against the mask measures and the precautions we need for a pandemic the more moderate conservatives are saying we've had enough. we need to keep our state safe and maybe i'll consider voting

for joe biden or stay home. and that could provide the bump or the loss of less than 5 percentage points for a democratic candidate. >> president trump knows something has to change for him between now and election day. yesterday he forecast a coronavirus vaccine before the election. here's what he said, followed by dr. anthony fauci's medical prediction. >> we have a lot of vaccines under study, by the way. we look like we're going to be really good on vaccines and with their pew eccs also. >> what's the earliest we could see it? >> sooner than the end of the year. >> sooner than november 3rd? >> i think in some cases, yes, possible before. but right around that time. >> i don't think we're putting any emphasis on a vaccine. we don't have it yet. let me make it clear about emphasis. what we're saying, we're trying very hard to ultimately get a vaccine that might be available by the end of the year or the beginning of 2021.

but that's many months away. >> so donny deutsch, americans can take their pick as they watch those side by side. donald trump who needs to turn around his election chances or the medical expertise of dr. anthony fauci. who said early next year and every doctor said this, would be ambitious it usually takes years to develop a vaccine. if we're lucky we may get one by next year. donald trump saying maybe we'll have one by election day. >> it's astounding. it's just -- you know, i was thinking the other day, earlier in the show, as you mentioned that by the end of the year there's probably going to be 300,000 cases. and that if trump just came out aggressively and said to people, wear masks, social distance and we could save 60,000 lives.

that's 20, 9/11s. what if george bush was told ahead of time that it was going to happen and didn't happen -- of course he didn't know. but right now he's being told there are 60,000 lives in play if you do the right thing. yet he still refuses to take the proper steps to make the proper moves, to put the proper policies in place. once again, there are 60,000 souls whose lives hang in his hands right now. yet this insane lunatic still refuses to do the right thing and just wish away and say it's going to go away or a vaccine is coming from a political point of view or humane point of view, it is baffling, it is stew fupifyi.

>> we have parents sending their children back to schools in some areas where children are crowding into the hallway. we have no clear message from the president, no clear message from the cdc. the cdc put out guidelines earlier and then were pressured reportedly to change them and so we see these horrifying images -- at least horrifying to those of us who have our own children and loved ones who have underlying conditions jammed into tight hallways without any masks. >> that photo reminds me of when people were coming into jfk and other american airports right after we said that the virus was coming in and we have to do mandating and distancing and everything, so we saw that happen. and we know what the result was. look what happened in new york. i think that the problem that donald trump has right now is that he can't get past the fact

that he has to deal with this virus. people are feeling it. it doesn't matter what network you watch. you don't know if you can safely send your kid to school. you don't know if your parents or grandparents are going to be healthy. you don't know if you have a job. these are things that are facts at your kitchen table that it doesn't matter what network you see and what someone tells you, you know this is real and that this is dangerous. and donny makes a very good point about saying we know we can save lives. right now, donald trump, you could save 60,000 lives. if you don't do anything they're on you. and that's basically the fact of the matter. >> it is crazy, though, that even though -- and you're right, susan, people do know that this is real. it's crazy what is still being written on social media. the arguments that people are still making on social media.

arguments that put americans at risk. and yet they continue to do it. let's bring in right now "morning joe's" chief medical correspondent dr. dave campbell. dr. dave, willie and i were talking about this new projection up to 300,000 americans possibly dying by december 1st. and sadly, this group out of the university of washington, and let me -- i keep identifying it as university of washington. ihme, they've been actually conservative from the start. and so, now we're talking about a death toll of 300,000 americans by december 1st. what's your take? >> they are conservative and they've been spot on throughout this pandemic in forward thinking in their numbers.

so what we now hear and see is if we don't change our behaviors in any way as it relates to face mask wearing, social distancing, all the behaviors that go into preventing the spread of the virus that by december 1st, let alone the end of the year, we'll double the deaths we have. we'll hit 5 million new cases before you know it. and many of the states across the country are still seeing surges popping up here and there. so we're not in any way out of the woods. woef fall coming, winter coming, flu season coming and we have schools opening. so the modeling out of ihme made some assumptions, that was about 50% of schools would be more or less reopened in some form or fashion. and that is a district by district phenomenon. so we don't really know what's

going to happen when schools reopen and a month from now we may be having a different conversation. but the bottom line from that forecast, joe, is if americans will change their behaviors just slightly and if 95% of americans will wear a face mask when they leave their home, let alone recognize that social media, physical distancing, and face mask wearing inside the home -- inside multi-generational homes is going to be very important and can drive the curve down, can drive the new cases down, and can make that model wrong. we want the model to be wrong. we want to find that americans have changed their behaviors, especially young kids, teenagers, young adults. if they could somehow be compelled or interested or willing to participate in these prevention measures, we could see a different scenario come

the end of the year than what ihme is predicting, joe. >> i'll tell you what, when you talk about wearing the mask and the number of lives that could be saved if 95% of americans started wearing masks responsibly when they were out in crowds with groups of people. you sort of do a turn on a famous winston churchill phrase and in this case we can look back and say never have so many been saved by so many doing so little. it's not really asking to do that much. but unfortunately, these numbers which are terrifying, could actually be exponentially worse if the combination of flu season and the spread of covid continues running across the country unabated. at that point, dave, this has been the worse case scenario that doctors and epidemiologists

and scientists have been warning about since march. they've been warning us. if you go back and look at the spanish influenza, 1918, 1919, what happened, it was actually the fall and the winter where things got worse. >> right. it is that. and again, school children are going to be exposed to crowds of other children that they have been protected from since schools shutdown in the spring. and in the summer, there was mostly no school. we now know that children are not immune to becoming inif he can -- infected with the disease. they are less likely to be very sick and even young children have a lot of virus in their nasal passages and the virus is what transmits person to person.

so when school starts back up and you see the picture of a crowded hallway in a high school, imagine that across the country in some form or fashion. we have to be exceedingly fearful of the whole process of increasing multigenerational families as people as the econo people out of the rental homes and makes it tight when it comes time to pay the mortgage and schools are restarting and here's the flu season. if many, many more people wore a face mask as often as possible and got a flu shot when it's time. we could change the future in a way we'll never know how bad it could have been joe. >> dr. dave campbell, thank you so much. mike barnicle let me bring you in here. it seems our challenge since march is we've -- actually, since february we have had a president that has constantly

spewed misinformation about this. thinking he could lie about this the same way he lied about robert mueller, russia, ukraine, his relationship with vladimir putin, everything he's talked about the past several years. in this case his lies have had terrible -- a terrible impact and here we are again half a year later with over 155,000 americans dead. and he's still spreading misinformation. telling americans that young children don't get infected badly. he's been talking about, once again, hydroxychloroquine. he's been saying this is going to go away just like all things go away. he continues to turn a blind eye to the harsh reality that this pandemic is killing hundreds of thousands of americans. we're up to 155,000 and now this

university of washington study is saying likely going to see 300,000 americans dead by december. >> joe, listening to the program this morning and listening to dave wasserman a few minutes ago, you wonder whether donald trump and the people around him understand -- truly understand that this is a far different country than it was five and a half months ago. forget demographic. five and a half months ago, this is a different country today. i'll tell you where it begin, i think. it begins with the phrase, how you doing today? it's a general phrase. we used it all of our lives greeting people early if the morning or whenever we saw them each and every day. but how are you doing today has a whole new meaning for americans, a country filled with anxiety and fear of the future. and the future is today. it's not next year or two years

from now, it's today. and we live now in a country where people walk around with just a few thoughts on their minds, school, jobs, work, pay. and they wonder why, in this situation with evictions already beginning. with mortgages right on the edge of teetering, with incomes having disappeared with furlough being a word not restricted to a military but your company, your office in a building you might never go back to. they're wondering why is the united states senate and the united states house of representatives home? why are they not working? they're still getting paid. they have a job. their job is us, and they're not doing it. >> they're not doing it. and they're not coming together and providing relief to working class americans and middle class americans who desperately need

the help who unfortunately are finding in some states, like for instance, florida, that it's really difficult to get unemployment benefits and they're looking to the federal government, they're looking to donald trump, to mitch mcconnell and they're being let down every day. because donald trump and mitch mcconnell and the treasury secretary think that they're getting a free ride. that somehow if they extend unemployment benefits and extend relief to americans who have been kicked out of work, pushed off the job through no fault of their own, that somehow they're getting a free ride. steve mnuchin, the treasury secretary said what so many republicans are saying right now, i don't want to spend taxpayer money to pay people to stay home. it's not like those people decided to stay home.

a pandemic that could kill up to 300,000 americans by december is why americans are out of work and they need help. and congress, mitch mcconnell, donald trump are doing nothing about it right now. still ahead on "morning joe" we'll be speaking to the senior national guard officer on the scene in lafayette square on june1st when peaceful protesters were forcibly removed prior to president trump's photo op on june 1st. certainly one of many low points for this presidency but also a moment if donald trump loses the presidency will be remembered as one of the defining moments in this volatile year. you're watching "morning joe." we'll be right back. joe." we'll be right back. a lot of healthy foods are very acidic and aren't necessarily great for your teeth. the acid can actually wear away at the enamel which over time can cause sensitivity and a lot of people start to see their teeth turn yellow.

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joining us now a major for

the d.c. national guard, major adam demarco, he was the senior national guard officer on the scene at lafayette square on june 1st when peaceful protesters were removed prior to president trump's photo op. thank you for being with us. can you give us background on what happened that day? >> yeah, thanks for having me, good morning. in terms of what happened june 1st i'm not at liberty to discuss that given there are current investigations ongoing, however my testimony is under oath on the congressional record, and i stand behind it. >> we can talk about the things you've grown up seeing and you observed in your adult life about the importance between separation and politics and the military. i remember looking at that scene and being horrified, not only

that the chairman of the joint chiefs was walking over there but the sec def was there as well. can you talk about how those activities -- of course, the chairman of the joint chiefs has apologized and was forthright about it. but can you talk about how that mixing of politics and the united states military undermines the -- our men and women in uniform? >> certainly. obviously if if you are a federal employee or an active duty military, you abide by the hatch act. and that is something that's extremely important both for our civil servants and our men and women in uniform. the reason being every four years we have a peaceful transition of power or a continuity of government. when we start mixing those two we get into what george washington feared in his farewell address and that's the

partisan politics and the vit' yol we see in today's climate. >> in your congressional testimony you said it was deeply disturbing there was a use of excessive force you saw. what can you share with us about the way your colleagues were doing their jobs out there, when you talk among them, what was the general feeling that day? >> that day -- i talked about it during the testimony -- or during the hearing, excuse me. a lot of our soldiers were d disturbed by the department of defense and the d.c. national guard has been incredible in terms of providing support and talking about it at large. as i'm here today, i'm here to talk about the council on american security and the way forward. what we're seeing in the current

administration is going to have generational effects going into the future. >> what do you mean by that specifically, major demarco? >> the recent decision to pull people out of germany is very troubling in that we are seeing the continuous undermining, degre designation, vilifying of our international alliances and partnerships. specifically in germany. without going into the dispositions of forces across europe if we are starting to move people around in europe, not only is that a signal to our european allies but also a signal to our adversaries that america is abdicating the mantle of leadership that we have been holding up since the end of world war ii. >> you know, we talked yesterday about harry truman with richard haass, we were talking about the 75th anniversary of truman's decision to drop the atomic bomb

but also richard said that harry truman was the most successful foreign policy president in post -- the post world war world in part because he built alliances with a broken germany. because from harry truman to george h.w. bush they fought a cold war against the soviet union that stopped soviet expansionism and unified germany. you talked about adversaries i'm wondering if what you're seeing now undermined everything that the presidents from harry truman to george h.w. bush did and does it in away that's to the benefit of vladimir putin in russia. >> absolutely. you're 100% spot on with that statement. our greatest threat as a country, it doesn't come from violent networks or lone wolf

actors. it's from the degradation and undermining of our shared democratic values. the values that started with the marshall plan and the truman administration and continue through the presidents as you said. vladimir putin is looking at this as an opportunity to enhance and increase his presence across western europe. >> mike barnicle has a question for you. mike? >> major, on that day, june 1st when did you become aware that the order was given to move against the protest eaers or th crowd, and were you aware of who it was given to? >> appreciate the question but due to the pending investigation and litigation i'm not at liberty to discuss. but my testimony hits on that. >> adam demarco, who was in the

square that day. thank you for your time that day appreciate it. >> thank you. joining us cnn's chief national security correspondent, jim sciutto. it's great to have you on our air, good morning, congratulations on the book. the madman theory implies some sort of strategy there's a me method to the madness there. is that what you find when you dig through president trump's policy? and when you talk to many people with and around president trump? >> the short answer to your question is no. it goes back to richard nixon, who famously had his national security advisor communicate in no uncertain terms to north vietnam during negotiations over the war that he was just crazy enough, mad enough to order a nuclear attack. he didn't plan to. he did that to get leverage and negotiations. it didn't work, we know how that

war ended up. but nixon and his team went on to own that as a strategy. the thing is, president trump's madman theory is one that he unleashes, one often without a plan or strategy and two not just on adversaries but allies keeping them on edge and his own adviser. his decisions on syria, north korea, across the board often surprise his senior most advisers no policy process leading up to it. and that's the problem with this, right, many of his own advisers did not trust his own decision making. >> jim, it's great to have you on, thank you for coming on. the madman theory reminds me of what was said, it helps if the batter thinks you're crazy. i remember there were a lot of foreign policy people who were uncomfortable about donald trump and said, who knows. maybe we'll get more concessions

out of china than we've been able to get in the past. but time and again explain how it's turned into chaos and talk about north korea specifically. i get the quote the other day when frank tweeted they're still at it in north korea working on miniatureized nuclear devices. i found a quote from donald trump june 13, 2018 there's no longer a nuclear threat from north korea, sleep well tonight. explain how that chaos put us in a worse situation than we were when donald trump became president. >> remember in bull durham, hit the bull, meat. the trouble is, i do this in the final chapter before and after on all the places iran, north korea, syria, et cetera. north korea is an easy one, north korea has more nuclear weapons today than it had four years ago. north korea has a more advanced

ballistic missile program than four years ago. they appeared to have played trump on this. that's the thing. coming in, this was portrayed as part of the art of the deal, right. keep your adversaries on edge and therefore you gain advantage. when you look at the record, particularly on north korea we have not gained advantage. you can make an argument in other areas you have fallen behind. look at iran, yes, the president came in, blew up the iran nuclear deal. fine, if you don't think that's a sufficient deal, what did you end up with? frankly iran closer to a nuclear weapon than it was four years ago. the pentagon ran its own study of the president's iran strategy an iran strategy group and that concluded that the president's strategy didn't work. it didn't get the u.s. closer to what it wanted not just on the nuclear program but iran's

military aggression in the region. hit the bull meat works if you get the batter to strike out. but if the batter hits a home run off you, the strategy has failed and you see that in a number of of america's most important national security challenges under this president. >> you have foreign leaders that openly talk about how easy it is to play donald trump. just play to his vanity and get what you want. donny deutsch is with us and has a question for you. >> jim, under the guise of madman, it's been reported that his aides would kind of edit possible solutions into national problem and not bring him military options because they were so afraid of his recklessness. can you talk about the that? >> i will. some of the most intense moments with north korea, particularly the end of 2017, the pentagon

hesitated to deliver the president military options because they were concerned he might use them and take the countries to war. you remember this discussion of a so-called bloody nose strike, a limited military strike to gain leverage in negotiations. i didn't speak to anybody in the pentagon who thought that that was a reality because north korea would interpret it as a beginning of a decapitation strike and even perhaps more remarkable they communicated to their north korean counterparts warnings they didn't know what the president was going to do because they were concerned that they might end up on that path a and that pattern did not end with north korea. iran, as well. tension moments in 2019 in the standoff. similar hesitation and also similar communication to iranian counterparts, right? representatives of one of america's biggest adversaries that they did not know what the

president would do next and concerned about that escalating. >> jim, susan here. question about the foundation of the mad man strategy is that you have an understanding of the history of where we are, what the effects will be of such an action. and how much does donald trump's ignorance, frankly, on especially global issues play into that? because people don't trust what comes out of his mouth because they know he doesn't know what he's talking about. >> you see his advisers struggling with that. again, i spoke purely for this book with current and former trump administration by design, speak to people who work for him to get their impression. i tell a story about how under h.r. mcmaster that he and his team came to know that the president was not reading the briefing materials. they would go into the briefings and they could tell it was the

first time he was hearing about whatever threat they brought up that day and had a plan to boil down the briefings to three bullet points on note cards to try to get it across. they came to see soon after that that the president was only reading the first two of three bullet points, not getting to the third so they started to concentrate the information in the first two and made the third kind of a throwaway and then they came to see that even he in general was not getting through those briefings. you want a president who is informed making decisions. the thing with trump and consistent with other accounts from bolton and others is not only does he not read the briefing notes but told information, intelligence he doesn't like, he dismisses it, says he doesn't believe it if he doesn't want to. that's a remarkable situation for the commander in chief. >> too much information. jim, you write a lot about

russia and say agencies actually effectively stopped briefing or did less and less to the president about russia because he would blow up every time the subject came up. you have another senior adviser in the book saying putin is trump's honey trap. from your investigations, what is going on with donald trump and russia? just a couple of days ago he was confronted with the story of rsds, the gru with bounties on soldiers in afghanistan saying i did not ask vladimir putin about that on the several phone calls in the last couple of months. what did you find about trump's relationship with putin? >> i asked everyone i interviewed, please explain. because the most consistent feature of trump's foreign policy is deference frankly to russia. we see it across the board in so many cases. the best explanation i got from folks who briefed him, folks in intelligence, folks in national security was that trump has an

admiration for vladimir putin. he admires his power. he shares his frankly nigh listic view of the world that no one is better than anyone. it's all a zero sum game and you see that in president trump's comments back to the bill o'reilly interview early in the term saying putin is a killer and trump said are any of us any better? more recently with the taliban, russia arming taliban and said the president said we armed the taliban in the '80s. there's an equivalency and doesn't see america as exception and putin as having power that he'd like to have and that putin's a tough guy. he tells it like it is and that's the way i'd like to be, too. that's the best explanation i heard and that's a pretty remarkable one for a sitting u.s. president. >> it certainly is. back in december of 2015, we kept pushing him to criticize

vladimir putin and donald trump kept saying that, well, america's bad, too. america kills people, too. the more relative -- moral relativism was shocking then and now. >> yeah. >> hey, jim, thank you so much for being with us. the book is "the madman theory." >> thank you. >> thank you so much. great to have you with us. still ahead, the latest read on the economy when the july jobs report crosses in half an hour. plus talking to new york's attorney general seeking to shut down the nra with a lawsuit that accuses the organization's top executives of widespread corruption. some of the president's recent talking points reminded our producers of another republican politician. "morning joe" coming right back. >> there are those that say you can test too much. you do know that. >> who say that is? >> just read the manuals. read the books. >> manuals? what manuals?

>> read the books. >> what books? >> read the newspapers or read the medical reports. >> like specifically? i'm curious. >> all of them. any of them that have been in front of me over all these years. ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ the open road is open again.

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when they gaze upon yosemite's towering sequoia's -- >> your foreign competitors move the factory to prevent a level playing field shifting production to thailand and to vietnam, thailand and vietnam. >> hmm. thigh land. that's homer simpson. wants to go to thigh land. and the capital, of course, is wi wingler there. nothing but chicken wings and

chicken thighs. >> isn't that from your college days? good name. >> it is. you got your dream land. >> that's right. >> an enthen you got your jill lets and then the thailand. by the time -- it's not a pub crawl. it's a chicken crawl. by the time you're done -- by the time you're done through that, man, you're crawling to class. i told you, you know, as you know, i went to the university of alabama and university of florida law school. proud to be an alum of both of them. great southern states schools. there's actually a guy on twitter yesterday with a dartmouth degree trying to explain to everybody that elites did not understand that thailand was actually pronounced thigh

land and a moment, this cult, this cult of trump reminds me of that moment where -- alex, we always need this in the rotation, where mike pence sees donald trump put the water on the floor and mike pence puts the water on the floor. >> if you're willing to go down and die on that hill, that mispronunciation of thailand, there's nothing you won't go down on trump with. >> good morning and welcome to "morning joe." along with willie and me, we have msnbc political analyst, also a wilible don winner in '82. >> wow! >> eugene robinson. >> yes. >> and msnbc contributor victoria defrancesco. and jim vande hyde and jonathan la mere and jon meacham the

author of "his truth is marching on" which publishes later this month. willie, let's start with the news. we begin with new coronavirus numbers. the united states now exceeding 160,000 deaths. since the pandemic began, america has reported nearly 4.9 million covid-19 cases. we're keeping a close eye again on hotspots like florida. and texas reporting at least 300 new deaths for the third consecutive day. california grappling with a glitch in the covid-19 tracking system. officials say the disruption is impacting the response efforts statewide. meanwhile, a new prediction from the university of washington institute for health met russe metrics and health models and the number of deaths in america expected to climb to nearly 300,000 by december 1st.

>> good lord! good lord. >> this is the model the white house used and researchers claim if 95% of americans wore masks leaving the home the number of projected deaths to drop by more than 66,000 and states might reimpose lockdown measures if the death rate is 8.7% and then there's online instruction only for this upcoming school year. joe, when that number crossed yesterday, it was staggering. almost 300,000 deaths, just over 160,000 right now. so if that model plays out and let's hope to god it doesn't, you are looking at half again what we have seen already. >> again, you know, for people that haven't been covering this closely, covering the modeling very closely, it bounced wildly back and forth but this

washington university institute is the one that the white house used time and again and the estimates have been conservative more often than not. i think the president quoted them saying that it might be 60,000, 70,000, not so many months ago. but, willie, again, this is the problem with the pandemic. back when fools and political cranks and cult members were saying, oh, it is just look the flu, we will have the same number of people get this that had the flu, health experts, doctors, scientists, ep deem epidemiologists all talked about how quickly pandemics like this spread and so of course that's exactly what happened. i'll be honest with you. i was hoping that we would stay under 50,000 deaths in march. i didn't know that that could happen but that was a great hope but you notice, again, if you follow it month by month by month this spread so quickly and

you notice we're not having the university of washington institute telling people, hey listen, if you stay in your home for six months, if you shutdown your small business for six months, if you lock your children away and don't allow them to go to schools for six months -- no. wearing a mask. again, it is fairly simple. i don't remember either in the founding documents or in the federalist papers or in the staging of hamilton either on broadway or on disney -- now streaming on disney plus, you should really look at peacock. peacock is awesome! i had to say that. peacock's amazing. but i don't remember anybody talking about the right to kill -- to kill yourself and others by not wearing a mask and

this whole idea -- i know it comes out of the trump cult thing for people who the extreme members of the trump cult about not wearing masks, but this study says if we want to cut the number of deaths in america by how many? 50,000 or so? instead of 300 thousand dolla,0 december we can have far less. wear a mask. the man thing to see with these numbers for those that want to believe donald trump that it will magically go away, what you see is a quickening pace. instead of what donald trump's saying, slowing down, it is not. it is getting worse. more people are suffering. more people are dying. now is the time. there's always the time. to change your behavior. for all of us to change our behavior and take those precautions that can save your

life and the life of your loved ones. >> even that number, 295,000 in this estimate, again, let's hope that's on the high end of things, assumes that drastic change in our lives which is to say half of the country's kids don't go back into school full-time. this -- the maddens part about this, it didn't have to be this way and that 50,000 number that you predicted and thought about way back when in march was a reasonable number, a terrible number but reasonable and now talking about 300,000 deaths potentially. ohio governor dewine tested negative for coronavirus after a positive result and raising concerns over the accuracy. the governor first tested positive yesterday morning using a rapid antigen test allowing for results in minutes and shown to be less accurate and part of protocol for those greeting

president trump at a tarmac. he returned to columbus and took a second test from ohio state university medical with pcr and the results came back negative in the evening. that second test which looks at the specific genetic material for the virus is known to be more sensitive and accurate but is more time intensive and it requires samples processed in a lab. dewine's sample was run twice and came back negative both times. jonathan, you were on that trip. y you're with the president right now traveling. this test was administered because governor dewine would greet president trump on the tarmac there in ohio. what were the ripple effects of that news through air force one? >> good morning, willie. i'm today in new jersey, don't be too jealous. >> easy. >> not far from the president's bedminster golf club spending a three-day week. we landed here late last night from ohio and perhaps now in the

first line of my career obituary to note i was in the room when the president said thigh land and it's the governor and that initial test that shadowed the entire trip. the president sportsnet the day in ohio and of itself noteworthy, won handily in 2016 and the polling shows even with joe biden, shows you president trump's diminished standing in the race to spnd time and resources, energy in states like ohio. yesterday he was in texas last week. having to play defense. and it was add we were about to take off from washington on air force one when we got news that the govern for a tested positive, no longer would be able to be there on the tarmac so when we landed he wasn't there. the president was greeted in cleveland by other officials and said that he hoped the governor would be okay and the day centered around a speech with

the economic policies, he toured a whirlpool factory in ohio to tout american manufacturing and its rebirth under his watch although, of course, the manufacturing sector stalled in the last year or two and can never outrun the virus. that included a fund-raiser was shadowed by this and then of course last night after he landed here in new jersey we got word that the second test proved negative and raises questions about the accuracy of the tests and includes those at the white house. in texas last week congressman gohmert was going to be on air force one and wasn't because he tested positive. it seems like subsequent tests indicated that. everyone that comes in contact with the president, includes his staff, officials on the road, reporters at the white house before they board air force one, i took that same test yesterday that dewine did in ohio and all

skroon screening and there's a false negative at first or a false positive and it calls into question just how accurate and safe all these tests are for anyone including those traveling with the commander in chief. >> you know, there have been questions for sometime about these rapid tests and how accurate they are. i do know that, willie, that mike barnacle is already thinking ahead after the pandemic is over and may get one of the kits and any time invited to do something may do a dewine. >> good out. >> take the test. say hey, positive, hey, i cannot go to your bridge game and then take the real test a little bit later on. mike dewine out of being the president, not that he wants to do that. since you have the tests unreliable under the president of the united states, you wonder

if there's not a better way to do it and the fact that the testing, gene robinson, used around the president of the united states is so inaccurate tells you how long -- first of all, how dangerous that is for the country that the leadership can't even be tested safely, but also, how poorly our testing regimen is even six months into this. >> right. definitely defeats the purpose of giving everybody a test who's going to see the president if you can't rely on the test. right? so you have no idea if -- you know? hopefully you have some idea. hopefully it's not 50% inaccurate or whatever. but clearly in this case and as jonathan said in other cases the test, the rapid test has been wrong and certainly does call into question its worth and also it just -- it does raise questions. there's so many different tests, different kintds of tests,

different manufacturers, different methods with different degree of reliability. it is a patchwork that i guess you could better describe as a crazy quilt of testing. again, that was one of the original sins in the response to this pandemic was we never got the testing right. we never made it widely available enough, reliable enough and so we still don't have as good of a handle as we ought to have on where the virus is and where it is going next. >> yeah. you know, it is just a lack of planning. it is a lack of planning that's haunted this administration's approach to the pandemic from the very beginning. of course, it stops at the very top with donald trump -- you're writing about going back to school without a plan. donald trump back in the spring, back in the spring when this

pandemic was first erupting saying people needed to go back to school. go back to school. he said in the fall the pandemic was going to be gone. it's believe me, trust me he said. you know? it is just like he was saying open businesses by easter. every step of the way this president has been wrong. he's been overly optimistic. he is pollies a -- pollyanna-ish. we've had no plan, reopening schools or whether it was testing regimen. gene, i saw a picture that a student took in a georgia school about an hour outside of atlanta. those children were packed, packed inside a classroom. >> yeah. >> i mean, inside of a hallway. most of them not wearing masks and of course the big answer -- what was the big answer? they suspended the student who took the picture which, of

course, tells you all you really need to know about that school district and how others around that state are handling this pandemic. >> that's absolutely insane. absolutely insane. look. if we all understand why it is imperative that as soon as we can safely do so we get the schools open so if you decide to go ahead and open the schools which i think most of the country's not ready for yet but if you decide to go ahead and do it, the very least to do is require every student to wear a mask all the time. how do you do that? same way you enforce the dress codes at every school in america already. right? schools already dictate what students can and can't wear. you know? your skirt is too short or the pants are too baggy or can't

wear this or that. properly dressed to go to school. every school district in the country can mandate today that proper dress includes wearing a mask, period. and then you would have a lot less transmission of the virus, fewer hotspots of ballooning, mushrooming inflation of spread of the wave that we are likely to have in the absence of these kinds of mandates. that's a very simple thing to be done but it is not being done. >> still ahead, one day after filing a lawsuit seeking to december solve the national rifle association, new york attorney general letitia james will be our guest. "morning joe" is coming right back. ♪

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that's a very terrible thing that just happened. i think the nra should move to texas. and lead a very good and beautiful life. and i've told them that for a long time. i think they should move to texas. >> donald trump obsessed with texas. by the way, going through that l litany of things that joe biden hated, he said guns, god, the bible and then energy. certain source of energy. why didn't he add in the like the dallas cowboys? it's so blatant to get really nervous about texas and saying, hey, sued by new york, move to texas. that was president trump after new york state's attorney general james announced a lawsuit seeking to dissolve the organization accusing it of

engaging in fraud and misrepresentation for decades. with us the u.s. -- i'm sorry. i'm not giving the promotion yet. the attorney general for new york state, letitia james. we are having some problems with video but the audio is just fine. thank you so much for being with us. and so, let's start. why the lawsuit? why now? >> so, first, thank you for having me on your show this morning and good morning. the nra -- >> good morning. >> -- diverted millions and millions of dollars away from its charitable mission for personal use by senior leadership, awarded contracts to get the financial gain of close associates and family, doll out no-show, no-bid contracts to employees. bought the silence of those that

dissented and used the contracts to basically get the loyalty of board members. it was all led by the face of the nra, the executive vice president wayne lapierre and three other individuals who are part of leadership. his former treasurer wilson phillips, his chief of staff joshua powell and the secretary john frazier. they basically pilfered and looted the nra to the point where the nra today is operating at a deficit. >> so, madame attorney general, you know, there are as you know, there are even conservative writers, conservative commentators and former supporters of the national rifle association who agree with you, everything that you say. it looks like they have acted in the most corrupt ways for a very long time. why did you move to try to go

after the entire organization instead of just these four national figures who have done so much to, again, according to your claims and the claims of a lot of reporters to loot the nra and actually steal funds from members? >> because the rot runs deep. it's pervasive. it's all throughout the corporation. throughout the 76-member committee. it is also in the audit committee, the compensation committee. they basically, the committee failed to assure fiscal, standard fiscal controls were in place. they failed to respond to whistle-blowers and there were a number of whistle-blowers who complained about the misappropriation. they took steps to conceal the

nature and the scope of whistle-blower concerns from external auditors. they failed to review potential conflicts. there's a concept known in the law as related party transactions that were a significant number of related party transactions and they just ignored the law to the point where they may even be in violation of the internal revenue code. so that's why we're seeking to dissolve the nra in it entirety, require these individuals to make full restitution. to ensure that none of these individuals can ever serve on the board of a charity in new york state. >> yeah. the scope of corruption, alleged corruption by your office and also by reporters again, on both sides, ideologically of the

political aisle is absolutely stunning. one other criticism that donald trump, "the wall street journal" opinion page and others have had over the past day is the timing of this lawsuit. the question of whether you're putting this out there to influence the election, to stop them from being able to support donald trump and republican candidates. can you talk about the timing? why august instead of, say, december? >> so it's interesting that they would tie this to politics and this lawsuit has nothing to do with politics. this lawsuit has to do with the violation of the law. this investigation began in 2019 and it recently concluded. and based upon the facts and based upon the analysis and the conclusion of law, it is clear that they used the nra as a personal piggy bank and it is my obligation and my responsibility to enforce the law in new york state and that is exactly what

we are doing without fear and or without favor. no one is above the law. including this most powerful organization the nra. >> attorney general james, it is willie geist. >> i'm sorry, willie. forgive me. we have a little delay. so -- was there something that required you to file in august instead of waiting until after the election? is there some reason why it needed to be filed now? >> no. there was no time period by which we had to file this lawsuit. we file lawsuits when we conclude our investigations and we analyze and apply the law. that's when we file our lawsuits. we don't look at the political calendar to determine when we should or not file a lawsuit. >> willie geist, good morning. i suspect there's members of the nra that say, members disgusted by the grotesque spending and

the lavish trips and the $13.5 million you uncovered paid to a personal travel consultant to wayne lapierre over 6 1/2 months. they may say let's get rid of the leadership blowing the money on the yachts in bahamas but we have an organization here to prote protect our constitutionally guaranteed right to keep and bear arms? what do you say to that when you try to get rid of it altogether? >> the mission was violated. the reality is that it goes beyond just wayne lapierre. you talked about some of the instances that are outlined in the complaint. but again, the corruption runs very deep. it extends to the 76-member board. it extends to the audit committee. it extends to the compensation committee. it extends, again, to

individuals who served, again, not behalf of the donors but on behalf of wayne lapierre who traveled extensively to safaris in africa, millions of dollars on unwanted travel consultants, who did a post employment contract for $17 million. who allotted several million dollars for private security cost. for trips to the bahamas. for reimbursement in a four-year period for gifts to friends and vendors. and the lucrative consulting contracts and that are then passed through a vendor used for side deals. again, the corruption is pervasive, it's persistent. it is not limited to one person. it is throughout the entire corporation and that's why we seek to dissolve the corporation in its entirety.

>> attorney general james, it is susan here. >> hi. >> how are you? it's great that you're pursuing these types of katss and where there's corruption found it should be pursued. you had a case against the trump foundation where basically they had to give back almost $2 million. but there is a political sense in all of this and i wonder if maybe perhaps it's because you're looking towards 2022 for governor. >> by no means am i looking at 2022. i am of the belief that elected officials don't have to look at the next re-election cycle as long as they continue to do their work. and each and every day i wake up to do my work and enforce the law. and so it's really critically important that individuals understand that no one is above the law including the nra. and that they gross ri misused these funds for personal use

over a period of time. and it's important that individuals understand that they concealed the very nature of these illegal expenditures. it is also important to understand they may have violated the internal revenue code and may rise to another level and so our investigation is ongoing but our investigation had nothing to do with politics and but all to do with the fact that they violated, they flauted the law and they thought they could get away with it. they were an unchecked organization and after the intensive investigation we decided to file this litigation because it was persistent and pervasive. >> want to give you a chance to respond to the nra this morning. they said of your suit that it is a transparent attempt to score political points. they say basically you have had it out for the nra for a long time. in 2018 calling it a terrorist organization. how do you respond to nra?

>> one has nothing to do with the other. my political beliefs have nothing to do with the fact that litigation and lawsuits that we filed are based on the facts. we follow the evidence. and we make conclusions of law. and the facts are beared out in this over 150-page complaint and i urge everyone to read it for themselves. it is clear that the leaders of the nra under the leadership of wayne lapierre, the face of the nra for several decades violated the law, put themselves above the law and did it for his own personal gain and that of his family and his close associates. >> mike barnacle has a question for you. mike? >> so, general james, based upon this conversation and your 150-page complaint, is the intent of your lawsuit, is it to eliminate wayne lapierre and his executive board from their jobs

or is it to eliminate the nra? >> there are 18 causes of action and for the years of fraud and misconduct, we are seeking an order to dissolve the nra in its entirety. to require mr. lapierre, mr. phillips, mr. powell and mr. frazier to make full restitution for funds they unlawfully profited from and the excessive salaries they concerned while employees and to pay penalties. in addition to remove them from the leadership immediately and to ensure that none of the four individuals can ever serve on the board of a charity in new york state again. that is what we are seeking and it will be up to a judge to decide whether or not we are successful in getting that relief. >> attorney general james, do

you expect any criminal referrals out of this? >> our investigation is still ongoing. at this point, this investigation, this complaint primarily is focused, is civil in nature. if we uncover any criminal activity we'll make a referral to the district attorney of manhattan. >> all right. new york attorney general letitia james, thank you so much. we appreciate you being so generous with your time. 1.8 million jobs were added last month, the unemployment rate dropped to 10.2%, down from 11.1% in june. and with us now, former treasury official and "morning joe" economic analyst steve ratner. the numbers you can't ever say double digit unemployment is good but certainly it seemed to

be going in the right direction this past month. what can you tell us? >> yeah, joe. that's right. we are certainly -- things are improving although dramatically more slowly than they were improving in the prior month we added i think 4.8 million jobs and now 1.8 million jobs, we have lost 22 million jobs and so we still have something like 15 million jobs left that we need to add to get back to where we were. little bit less than that and a long way back and so what the picture to get to the bottom line, the picture we are seeing today is of an economy that's recovering as you say, adding jobs, the unemployment rate is edging down but not a v-shaped recovery, not the quick bounce back that thought people early in the pandemic thought might happen but it is a slow and slowing recovery back and much of the other economic data to see points to the same

situation, an economy that is not growing as fast as it was and not as fast as we hoped it would because we have to shut things down again because we are not controlling this virus properly. >> so steve, we -- throughout the month it seems we get economic signals contradictory economic signals. we get concerns, legitimate concerns obviously from the fed chairman. and we hear that the economy is slowing down, that the panic's reemerging and then goet a mont like this to seem to undermine a lot of those previous reports. two things can be true at the same time. there can be segments of the economy that are struggling along still even while people are getting back to work but why is it that it seems that we are getting contradictory signals on the state of the u.s. economy

every day? >> we're in a time that is utterly unprecedented in terms of asking economists and data collectors and the people involved in giving you a picture and a timely one. things are moving fast, happening differently in different parts of the country and in unchartered waters. for example, the unemployment rate, even the bureau of labor statistics has misclassifications because people in different categories at the moment but the bottom line is i don't think -- i think the picture is fairly consistent. it's of an economy recovering but much more slowly with the number of jobs regained in june to the number of jobs we regained in july and how dramatically that's come down and consistent with what people are saying which is that the recovery is losing steam, ebbing

and remember also this report of today taken in mid-july, the data collected in mid-july. we saw the new claims for unemployment insurance number earlier this week and it also shows a picture of an economy very slowly recovering but where were than a million people laid off or claimingen omit insurance every week so i think the picture is roughly consistently as i said. one other thing about the jobs picture that's concerning is that when you look inside the number of people who are unemployed it is shifting from people who tell the data collectors i'm unemployed because i was temporarily laid off or furloughed to people saying i was basically permanently dismissed or laid off or fired or whatever so the structure and situation in the labor force is somewhat worrisome but it's a slow recovery and also one that sits on the edge of tipping one way or the other depending on how good of a job we do controlling

the virus and the last point i'd make is that if you needed any evidence that we are desperately in need of this new stimulus package, i think these kinds of reports are it because even though we're recovering it is way too slow and doesn't catch ch capture of the $600 a week that people don't get anymore and so on and so forth. >> steve, you led me into the next question, we are a week away from the last $600 a week check going out to people who need it so badly and we know that this morning that congress is nowhere in the negotiations with the white house saying as much out loud so what is the impact if this goes on and on and another week, another two weeks, deep into august? what do you see happening to next month's numbers, for example? >> i think, willie, can only get worse from here. i think that the failure of congress and the white house to

agree on something is going to have profound economic -- could have profound economic consequences. the fact we had a substantial and quick rebound after we hit bottom in the spring was considerably due to the quick and effective response by congress as well as by the federal reserve and if they at this point take the marbles and go home sort to speak because they can't reach agreement it's a negative consequences for the economy. its's a very odd situation where mitch mcconnell cannot deliver his caucus for a package that's meaningful ian essentially he has to negotiate with the democrats and then you have the white house which changes its mind seems like every day on what they want and so it's a pretty ugly picture from congress and very disappointing that they can't respond the way they did earlier in the spring. >> steve ratner, 1.8 million jobs added in july, the unemployment rate down to 10.2%, thank you so much. next on "morning joe," joe biden has accused president

trump of pursuing an all-out assault on the latino community in his time in office. how the move to cut short operations for the u.s. census count may play into that. we'll be right back. and can't wait until you are too. universal orlando resort. buy now and get two days free at the parks. restrictions apply. they get that no two people are alike and customize your car

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welcome back to "morning joe." joining us now politics writer for the toledo blade, liz sculca. liz, great to have you with us. you cover politics on the ground very closely in the state of ohio, one that the president won relatively comfortably in 2016 and now fighting for in 2020. what did you see on the visit yesterday? what is the state of play in ohio heading in less than three months from the vote? >> so we saw a huge response yesterday ahead of this visit and i think it's important to remember just how small the town is that the president visited. clyde, ohio. not a major city. first time a sitting president visited there since 1912 so this was a really big deal for the people that live there regardless of political affiliation. driving there from toledo, you see a lot of trump signs. there was a huge motorcade yesterday, many, many kids.

people urging him to finish the wall. so it was a very -- a crowd very amped for the president yesterday and so the state of play in ohio, we have a lot of polls telling us this is an extraordinarily close race in ohio. the race is definitely shaping up to be competitive for 2012 but you wouldn't necessarily believe that after seeing this scene yesterday. >> are voters in ohio voting the way so many people will, the way you talk to them about not just the health effects of the coronavirus but of the economic effects? is that the sort of one and center issue top of mind for everybody there? >> it is. you know, this is a just such a tough year for ohioans between the pandemic, we lost 3,500 ohioans. in april we lost 100,000 manufacturing jobs, we gained a lot of that back but this is an

extro extraordinarily tough time and so many people report having an absolutely tortured decision in 2016 of hillary clinton and donald trump. i'm not sure that those people feel any differently about joe biden. a lot of people are still undecided. they want to see who his running mate is going to be. they want to see more civility in politics. so it's really tough to say. >> liz, mike barnacle has a question for you. mike? >> sure. >> so, liz, on the ground and your reporting, three issues, virus, schools and jobs. are they all equal or how would you rank them from talking to people? >> oh gosh. so the virus is tough because if you are in a major city in ohio, the virus is huge. but once you leave those major cities and go into a place like we saw yesterday, sandusky

county, it is a much different vibe. the virus has not been as significant there. it was one of these rural counties where there was a backlash against the statewide mask mandate that we now have. so it really depends in the state where you are. depends in state where you are. and in terms of the economy, it also depends what part of the state you're in. we were in whirlpool, one of ohio's success stories. if you go some place else like the lordstown plant in northeastern ohio, where general motors closed down that factory, it's a much different story. so it really depends on where you go in the state. >> so interesting. i suspect we'll be talking to you a bunch more over the next weeks and months. liz, thank you so much. in a move that's almost certain to affect latinos nationwide, the trump administration earlier this week announced it will conclude operations for the u.s. census one month earlier than previously scheduled. with about 40% of households nationwide yet to be counted,

many feel the move will lead to an undercount among historically difficult to count populations, including people of color, immigrants and residents of rural areas. here is democratic presumptive nominee joe biden yesterday during the virtual conference for the national association of latino democratic officials. >> we've seen a lot of ups and downs in the latino community. but none more stark than the last 3 1/2 years. donald trump and his administration have pursued an all-out assault. that's how i phrase it. an assault on latino communities. from the moment he came down that golden escalator saying he was going to go after the mexican rapists. remember? that's how he started his campaign. it started the moment he announced his presidency. fanning the flames of fear and racism against latinos. it's baked into every aspect of how he's governed. >> joining us now, host of yesterday's annual conference that featured the former vice president, arturo vargas.

great to see you this morning. let's talk first about the census. what are the implications of cutting short that count? who doesn't get counted? who doesn't get represented for the next decade? >> thank you. first, just to correct the record. we're the national association of latino elected and appointed officials. we are membership and board is made up of republicans, democrats and independents. now with regard to the census, you know, the census is the foundation of our democracy. these are numbers we're going to live with for the next ten years. it determines the apportionment of the house of representatives, the distribution of $1.5 trillion every year, and then policymakers use these data to make key decisions which they are using right now with regard to covid-19. so if your numbers are wrong, the distribution of political power, of money and your decisions are wrong. >> the census is very important for representation and it does affect everything that happens going forward as far as money

into districts. but something a little more immediate is this election coming up in november. and since we haven't seen such a positive -- or big response because of covid-19 to the census, are you worried that we're not going to see the same kind of response for the general election in november? >> well, we have seen polls where there is a diminishing enthusiasm among latino voters to participate in the november election because they're undergoing so many stresses because of covid-19. latinos are experiencing record and disproportionate rates of infection, of death and the economic consequences have been devastating. so we need a real campaign that's going to focus on getting folks to fill out their census forms. we need to get rid of political interference in the census, and we need to make sure that everybody is able to vote either by mail or safely in person and

feel that they can actually do that without getting infected. >> you say you need a real campaign. what does that real campaign look like? >> well, i think the census bureau needs to redo its paid advertising campaign to meet the american public where it is. you know, not enough -- there's too much of this feel-good civic duty type of messaging. when people are experiencing real crisis, and i think the -- they speak to people about where they are and how important filling out that form right now, even though you may be sheltering in place or you're an essential worker, trying to feed your family and you're risking your life to do so. how important filling out that form is. we don't get that kind of messaging from the census bureau. >> do you fear that the presidential candidates, donald trump, for his own obvious reasons, and joe biden for less obvious reasons, are not inspiring enough to latino voters that that's driving down the vote? or does joe biden have a chance

to inspire hispanic voters in a way that some past democratic candidates have? >> you know, this isn't the first time we've had two elderly white men running for president of the united states. that's not new. what is new is the circumstances to which we find ourselves right now. we need both candidates, both political parties, both campaigns to campaign for the latino vote in all 50 states. we have too often have seen the latino vote taken for granted by both political parties. we estimate that there are at least 14.6 million latino voters that will turn out for the polls in november. an historic number. and they can make a decisive difference in key states across the country, but we have to engage on the campaigns have to engage them so that they turn out in november. >> all right. ceo of the national association of latino elected and appointed officials, arturo varg athank you so much for being with us. and willie and i want to thank

all of you for watching the show. and willie, i guarantee you this weekend, i will continue, even though we have -- i'm going to be going to azerbaijan and i'm going to be getting the right type of mentos and other rare minerals for our science experiment. this is the year. this is the year we win the nobel prize unanimously, right? >> i think -- >> is that not how we end this show? come on. >> we've had it snatched away for too long. i don't know why you have to go to azerbaijan for the mentos, but i don't question the methods of a scientific genius. i'll see you on monday. stephanie ruhle picks up the coverage right after a break. it won't wait for appointments to open up or test results to come back. that's why at cancer treatment centers of america, our world-class experts give you the care you need, when you need it.

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hi there. i'm stephanie ruhle here in new york city. it is friday, august 7th. we begin with breaking news. the numbers are out for july. 1.8 million jobs were added. that's slightly better than estimates expected. it shows that the economy is still growing, but much more slowly than it has in recent months. the unemployment rate fell to 10.2%. that is down from nearly 15% back in april. and the very same time, the number of covid cases in the united states is now roughly 4.9 million, and will almost surpass 5 million