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with just 85 days until the election, democrats are calling on the postal service inspector to investigate the new postmaster general's restructure

plan. a major trump supporter louis dejoy, released sweeping overhauls. democrats say the postal workers are blaming the cost-cutting measures for slower delivery. according to the washington post, the postal service banned employees from working overtime. joining the conversation now, virginia democratic congressman jerry connelly, thank you very much for joining us. you recently called the restructuring that we witnessed at the postal service a deliberate sabotage, explain to us why you believe that and what the new cuts mean to workers and the reliability of the postal service. >> we're in the middle of a

pandemic, the one constant in everyone's life is mail delivery, it comes roughly at the same time every time. and that is something that we can rely on, one of the few areas of our lives that hasn't been disrupted. why in the middle of a pandemic when you're only about seven weeks from the first ballots being mailed would you take undertake under the guise of organization, draconian measures as you just indicated that eliminate overtime, that delay mail deliberately in terms of how trucks are filled up and delivering mail, and that, also, frankly, upend the management service. why would you do that now? and we know from president trump's own lips that he believes voting by mail will hurt him and republicans. he was exapplication it about

that. it's so well known within the postal circle that louis dejlay i call him that's what postal workers call him. >> the washington post, congressman, writes that changes worry postal analysis, the tone of dejoy's first eight weeks has cast the nation's institution. how will it impact mail-in voting? what kind of disruption will we see for the way this country votes come november? >> well, i'm not going to agree to the trump narrative that it will in fact lead to disruption. we have 630,000 patriotic

americans who work and they'll do everything they can that mail-in ballots are delivered on time to be counted despite what louis dejoy and president trump are trying to do, this is all a calculated attempt at the last minute in a failing campaign to engage what's really voter suppression, it's not a new game for republicans but this one is new. and it's quite cynical and could be very damaging, but i don't think they're going to succeed. >> all right, congressman, we certainly hope you're right that the elections aren't derailed by this at all. thank you very much for joining us today. >> thank you so much. joe biden will be announcing his choice to be his vice presidential running mate any day now, what we're learning about the pick and how some key democratic groups are getting ready for that. next. oh, that's a good one.

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with less than three months until election day, all eyes from both parties are on presumptive democratic nominee joe biden and his team for his long-waited vice president announcement. biden could announce his pick as soon as today. mike, fogood to talk to you. joe spent the weekend with his family talking over things as he's done with his family and others on many big occasions and many big decisions over his career, any update on when we'll hear announcement? >> reporter: well, the biden campaign largely has their plan for this announcement in place. i'm told the campaign staff spent the weekend racing to finalize the nature, the details a largely but not exclusively virtual announcement. all they need is the actual pick itself. we just saw in the last half-hour that the former vice

president has returned here to his home in wilmington. if he has made a decision not one communicated too widely outside of a small circle of advis advisers, now what we should say about the short list at this point is, those who know the most about where we stand at this point are saying the least. the one constant throughout this entire discussion has been kamala harris. last week we were talking about whether or not joe biden was having in-person meetings. we learned late friday night, we learned of one of them gretchen whitmer, he's had meetings with multiple running mates possibly.

>> all right, nbc's mike memoli, thank you. biden's promise back in march that his running mate would be a woman sent many advocacy groups into a proactive stance. so many big-womwomen's organior. the very latest on the reporting, ali joins me now. tell us about these groups and what kind of negative attacks are they bracing for based on what we have seen with previous women politicians and candidates who have run for political office. >> look, the unfortunate thing here, there aren't many women who have been in this space before, geraldine ferraro in

1984 and in 2016 it was hillary clinton at top of the ticket, so a lot of these women's groups are looking back at 2016 and seeing the way that president trump used to dog whistle all the time about hillary clinton's gender. he used to say things, she lacked the strength and stamina to be president. what they're advocating now is, we've seen this movie before, only now they want to be proactive about it, they're saying regardless of the choice that joe biden makes they're going to have her back once she does come into the public sphere, they're doing this in a few different ways, first they wrote a letter to the news organizations, to be dlib ra tif in how they cover this women. focus on the substance, don't talk about these women you wouldn't talk about a male

politician, valerie jarrett said. all of this to say these women's leaders cautioned me they're not say this leaves the vice presidential pick that you can't criticize her, i want to read to what one of the women involved in the effort. she said, twe want to call it ot so people are aware of it and they want the prime the media and prime voters, as they start to see this stuff pop up, media can see it and stop it in its tracks. >> thank you so much for that reporting. i want to bring in now, elena beverly and elise jordan.

as women's group warn of a sexist and racist attack that may come with this nonsment, what are your thoughts on joe biden's imminent vice presidential pick. >> the women's groups were right to make sure that we're all on guard and preparing ourselves for the onslaught of the sexis , and withe attacks we're going t see launched against this vice presidential nominee. you know, i think this movement, we have her back movement is an important political, cultural moment. women have stood up in other arenas in hollywood, and also with the me too movement, and now we're not going to stand by and allow women to be demeaned

in the political arena. we're not going to allow either the media or the opposition saying that the vice presidential pick is someone who's unqualified or incapable or somehow dumb or overly sexual all of the things that -- all of those criticisms that could be launched specifically at women who are seeking higher office or positions of authority. we're not going to be criticized for being ambitious. some criticism have already been launched at kamala harris. there was also a letter that was written on behalf of 700 black women who are in executive leaders in their companies. we're unabashedly qualified and

capable and ambitious and we're not going to stand by as you launch at us. this is really critical moment for women in the campaign field, i think we're going to see women fighting back in the next 80 days. >> your thoughts on this new university of wisconsin poll. it shows joe biden is leading in three battleground states that trump won in 2016, wisconsin, michigan and pennsylvania. more people in all three states blame trump for the coronavirus situation than they blame china, is this early evidence of how trump's handling of the pandemic will be a deciding factor for many voters in those states? >> well, this poll reflects what we've seen in several recent polls, notably the cbs news poll battleground tracker that was

released on sunday. specifically with regards to wisconsin and pennsylvania, just how much donald trump's handling of the coronavirus pandemic and the disapproval of how he's handled the pandemic, how much that affected his chances in those states and accordingly it's reflected in these polls. you can also look at sun belt states that had been struggling such as florida and arizona, north carolina, texas, and how donald trump isn't doing as well there as he should have been in say a normal cycle, disapproval of donald trump's handling of coronavirus really is what's driving this election, we've seen from these recent polls, with krst krgs replacing the economy or perhaps just being you can't have a strong economy if this pandemic is not under control, so that really is what

the pandemic as so many americans are losing loved ones and suffering. >> let me ask you really quickly about wisconsin republican senator ron johnson, he's moving forward with his investigation into hunter biden at a very interesting time when we're 85 days out from the election, he's subpoenaed the fbi director christopher wray, is this a political move that allies of the president trying to discredit biden and draw attention away from his vice presidential pick? >> senator johnson's move is just a little ridiculous and quite flailing at this point. and it really is the desperation of republicans to find an attack on joe biden that will stick and they haven't had any luck so far, pegging him as a radical socialist and so now they're continuing with this story line against hunter biden and it's a

distraction, you can see just by the reflection on how it's not really being covered, upwards of 150,000 americans have died from a pandemic that the administration doesn't have under control. next, an exclusive look inside the lab in china, some claim is at the heart of the coronavirus pandemic, nbc news is the first foreign news outlet allowed inside the wuhan institute since the start of the jaut break. we're live with that exclusive report next. when we started carvana, they told us

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zbrmpblts president trump continues to blame china for the spread of coronavirus. as tensions rise, researchers from the lab who many on the right claim the virus originated. go take us inside the lab, describe that experience was like and what you learned? >> reporter: well, what we learned is what we expected. in that lab directors were very adamant they had nothing to do with the virus leaking, an accident, or that anything was manufactured in their lab, they were very clear from the outset they were at the forefront, the first to decode and then share

the genetic sequencing of the virus with the w.h.o. and the global database. they're now focusing all of their research on covid-19. they say they like anybody want to know exactly what happened. now, we have no way to verify the lab's claims and there's some skepticism, china has been accused of lack of transparency, they've controlled data, animal samples from the market that were taken before it was scrubbed down, all of these questions, but in all of the accusations that are flying on both sides, because china is also accusing the u.s. of unleashing the pandemic, neither side is offering any credible evidence and certainly there hasn't been any direct evidence that the wuhan lab was somehow responsible for this virus. >> how are researchers

responding to these controversial claims that have come out here by politicians on the right including the president? >> reporter: well, a lot of these accusations are emanating from the white house and the state department is not lost here, they were very cautious in what they were saying and not wanting to make it, our discussion, a political discussion. they believe science will lead the way and science will eventually absolve them. what's on their minds is how this deterioration of u.s./china relations is impacting international collaboration among scientists, this is something that we hear from scientists in the u.s. as well, it's important to have this access to data and information-sharing with scientists here where the pandemic started in order there can be better policy and eventually answers.

>> thank you very much for that reporting. thank you for spending this hour with us. "deadline: white house" begins at the top of the hour after a quick and short break. they get that no two people are alike and customize your car insurance so you only pay for what you need. almost done. what do you think? i don't see it. only pay for what you need. ♪ liberty. liberty. liberty. liberty. ♪

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alone. it's a total case count that has doubled, doubled since the end of june, one that now makes the united states responsible for about a quarter of all known cases worldwide. despite the u.s. making up just 4% of the world's population. stark statistics that cry out for a response from u.s. leadership. yet from donald trump and his administration, an ongoing lack of urgency that borders on dereliction of duty. just take what "the new york times" editorial board challenged in a new piece out this weekend, america could control the pandemic by october, the headline reads, let's get to it. quote, six to eight weeks, that's how long some of the nation's leading public health experts say it would take to finally get the united states coronavirus epidemic under control. six to eight weeks. for proof look at germany or thailand or france or nearly any other country in the world, but

to accomplish that kind of effective, decisive response the times write, competent leadership is required, the kind of donald trump has proved unable or unwilling to demonstrate since the crisis began. according to the times, we need improvements like these -- clear and consistent messaging. better use of data. smart shutdowns with clearer guidelines for state and local leaders. testing, tracing, isolation and quarantine. if those are the essential aspects of on a sufficient response to an outbreak, it's no wonder that the u.s. has so far failed, a black buster new report in sunday's washington post, based on interviews with 41 senior administration officials and other sources directly involved in response efforts describes a lost summer, months of failure by trump and his administration to contain the virus. from that report, quote, under mounting pressure to improve the

president's re-election chances, as his poll numbers decline the white house had what as described a stand-down order in engaging publicly on the virus in month of june, part of a deliberate strategy to spotlight other issues. trump and many of his top aides talked about the virus not as a contagion that must be controlled through social behavior, but rather as a plague that eventually will dissipate on its own. the post also described what we've seen play out publicly in recent weeks the chill in the relationship between donald trump and the medical experts on his coronavirus task force. even trump's trusted economic experts agree, if we continue on the track we're headed down now, we could encounter even more devastation. quote, an internal model by

trump's counsel of economic advisers predicts a looming disaster. with number of infections projected to rise later. that daunting reality at a crisis point in the u.s. coronavirus outbreak is where we start today. joining us is now jonathan lemire, plus ron klain and former democratic senator claire mccaskill. jonathan, i watched you as you were with the president over the weekend as he was making it sound like he was signing executive orders, in fact the only one, the other three were memorandas, that has been a consistent theme that somehow everything is going to get fixed just like that. you were there. you heard him. you've been talking to people since then. where does this leave us? >> well, chris, i think with can

safely say that those actions, those orders won't take care of everything. no individual measure could. first of all, the scene over the weekend, the president had a rather spontaneous news conference friday night and another one saturday both at his bedminster country club, he's on three-day weekend there at his new jersey retreat. it was a bit of a surreal scene. members of the country club were allowed to watch. members who traveled with him saw them arrive, many with drinks in hand, only a few with masks on. they only donned masks after we started tweeting that they weren't wearing them. they certainly didn't keep social distancing as you can see on the screen seemingly in violation of the state's coronavirus guidance which says that they should keep six feet apart and limit capacity to a room like that for a political event to about 100 people.

certainly when you count the audience members, the press, the staff and the secret service there were north of 100 people. yes, the president did sign four measures and there does appear to be less to them than he would have us believe. one is about student loan forgiveness. that's subl obviously not particularly controversial but another one on eviction moratorium really just directs agencies to try to help. it doesn't come up with a solution, a guaranteed fix. there's two that are more controversial, one is a deferral of payroll tax that democrats point out could endanger social security since social security is in part funded by the payroll tax. the president denied that will be the case but hasn't offered much in specifics about how that would be included. and then of course there's the $600 of unemployment aid. now it's 400. only 300 are meant to be from

the federal government with the states having to make up the last $100. a lot of these states are cash strapped, unable to help out. the president speaking to reporters last night as he left new jersey said that perhaps the federal government would step in and fund the full $400. let's just say this, chris, as a final point. what the white house is trying to frame this as decisive action. the president looking to get a wave of good headlines that he's stepping into the breach here. but, there are real questions about how effective these measures will be and also as democrats spent the weekend hammering home, real questions as to whether they're constitutional at all, as the president is engaging in stepping on the congressional powers of the purse. >> the frustration, ron, for a lot of people, anybody who's followed this but certainly the medical experts including the people on his own coronavirus task force, the frustration of this, of watching him at bedminster on friday and then

again on saturday takes us back to this "new york times" edit editorial which is america could control this by october if we just do the right thing, ron. >> yeah, i mean, there are more cases of covid in paris, texas last week than paris, france. that tells us a lot about the state of our response compared to other countries. those executive orders, they're ineffective, misguided, but one thing they're definitely, they have nothing to do with the fighting the disease. we have an epidemic that's out of control in the country. the number of cases of covid have doubled in america since the end of june. forget about all the mistakes trump made in january, february, march, april. it's doubled since the end of june. as other countries have moved to get it under control, it's getting worse here because of the president's mismanagement. that lost summer, as "the post"

reported on, we're heading towards a lost fall and all kinds of things and more death if the president doesn't start doing his job and fighting the disease. one last fact, chris, we're going to see fewer americans tested for covid this week than were being tested back in may. we're going backwards on testing in a time when the president should be moving us forward on testing, tracing, and the steps to control this virus. this response isn't only failing, it's actually getting worse, not better. >> claire, everybody else around the world seems to know this. everybody seems to know this but this administration. even though i knew that americans weren't welcome places, i was still taken aback when i saw "the new york times" headline that says "canada to u.s. visitors, please don't sneak across the border." i have talked to a lot of my friends who are in italy. that economy is so dependent on american tourism, they are really hurting without american tourists, and yet when i talk to

them, my friends there, they say, you know know what we like even less than not getting your money, you coming over here and getting us sick. so where does that leave us? >> yeah, donald trump was going to make america great again and what he's succeeded in doing is making america unwelcome around the world. there's only a handful of countries that will allow americans to cross their borders now without any restrictions. that is an unbelievable place for the united states of america to find itself in. the president over the weekend, think about all the times we heard during the presidential campaign, chris, about the art of the deal, how he could make a deal. here we are, he is incapable of making a deal even with the republican members of the senate. let's give credit, every once in a while we get a bone from republican senators. ben sasse called these executive

orders constitutional slop. that's a republican senator from nebraska that called it unconstitutional slop. what he did over the weekend, it's not going to help small businesses, no direct aid for families, no help. in fact, it defunds the police and firefighters because there's no help for state and local governments, and he's delaying, not cutting taxes, if he can even do that to the social security trust fund. it's not like right now older voters in america are thinking, gee, donald, you really got our back. what does he do, he weakens the social security trust fund. >> one of the things we saw just today, ron, was we saw senior members of his administration doing interviews on the south lawn. we saw his press secretary doing the briefing and being asked basic questions about, for example, when is this money going to come through, how is this going to work, and unable to answer any of those questions. it kind of follows what we saw,

for example, in some of the interviews that the president has done recently with jonathan swann, for example, that he has a bunch of charts that have information that really don't tell the story, right, and he seems confused even when he's challenged about that information that he's been handed, but i think what it tells us is, or at least begs the question, is there anyone around him since someone is giving him this information, is there anyone around him who looks and sees and says, we can fix this, here's how we're going to do it? >> look, i think he obviously has dr. fauci available to him. he's the world's leading infectious disease expert. i wish the president would listen to him as opposed to having his white house staff do oppo dumps on dr. fauci. he's been an adviser to six presidents and given them good advice. as senator mccaskill was just

saying, what is the president doing, after having spent months putting the lives of senior citizen at risk, he signed an executive order that diverts hundreds of billions of dollars that funds social security and medicare, both those programs, with no plan to put it back in and no consideration for how those programs will be funded when all these hundreds of billions of dollars are diverted out of them. what we know is donald trump's really trying to act the part of the president, trying to do something to make it seem like he's being responsive. he's not fighting the virus and he's not doing deals with congress to get something done. you can't get something passed by congress if you're standing in a sand trap in bedminster. he needs to be working with the congressional leadership and getting some action to help people with the economic consequences of this virus too. >> well, to that point, jonathan, just a couple of hours ago i was talking to garrett haake who was saying in his conversations on the hill, there has been no contact between the democrats and the white house.

is there even any indication that anybody in the building behind you is feeling the pressure to get back to bargaining, that they're going to be able to sit down and somehow hammer something out? >> the white house is certainly signaling that they're open to negotiations, that would like talks to resume. now, having said that, the president tweeted today, reiterating a claim he made last night on the tarmac in new jersey that democrats have reached out to him and said they want to have these negotiations, but calls to the senate minority schumer's office and house speaker pelosi's office reveal they certainly didn't. it's not clear which democrats reached out. when we asked the press secretary at a briefing a few hours ago she said she wouldn't get into the president's call log. therefore, we're not sure which, if any, democrats have reached out. this may be the president saying we want to talk. his own advisers and aides, though they're talking up his executive actions believing they will help, they recognize that

they will fall short of what is really needed here, that a congressional package would be significantly bigger and more vital to the americans who are suffering right now economically because of the pandemic. so they're urging talks to resume but there's no action on capitol hill at all today, no public events, no press events. so that is still something that will be off in the distance. we know the president is going to be briefing again today. they just announced it's at 5:30. rest assured this is a question that will be put to him. >> yeah, many questions i'm sure. claire mccaskill, where are your former republican colleagues, who every time barack obama signed an executive order, raised holy hell and, again, we said ben sasse did put out a statement. he did say that this is unconstitutional slop. otherwise, it's been largely crickets. >> yeah. this is a moment in history that will be called out for the

hypocrisy of the republicans in the united states senate. the tops of their heads would have blown off if barack obama said he could cut payroll taxes with an executive order. they would be, you know, tearing down the white house if barack obama said, yeah, i can waive student loan payments, i can do all of these things, i can take money out of the social security trust fund. this is not the way this is supposed to work in our constitution. when congress can't agree, the president doesn't get to decide. he's not a king, and donald trump doesn't get that part. he thinks he is a king. he wants to be a king. so ben sasse role modelled what the rest of the republicans should be doing. the way the stop this president right now, the way to get a deal, is to call out his phony executive orders and memorandums and get back to making a deal to help state and local governments, help families directly and actually help people get over this pandemic by

the things that ron talked about, money for testing and tracing and making sure testing works and doing masks and shutdowns in a way that will stop this pandemic. that's what our economy really needs. >> before we go, jonathan, days are gone when all of us were taking up every seat in the briefing room. any chance you're up this day? are you in the briefing room, or it's not your number? >> the ap is always in the briefing room and it's my turn in the chair today, so second row, slightly off center. >> okay. >> i'll be there and certainly the press corps has a lot of questions to ask about the executive orders but also the intelligence from over the weekend that suggested that once again russia is trying to hurt the president's democratic opponent in the election even as perhaps china and iran are expressing their preference for the president to lose. so lots to discuss. >> so much always. jonathan, great to see you. ron klain, claire mccaskill,

thank you for starting us off. when we come back, children and the virus. as we learn more of them are testing positive, there's still so much we don't know about how they're affected, how they can spread it. those unanswered questions made more dire as the debate about going back to school rages on. and another late friday night move by the trump administration, this time involving your mail. shuffling the postal service around, attempting to give the trump mega donor now running the agency more power. could it impact how ballots get delivered? plus, how coronavirus is factoring into the presidential campaign. with less than 90 days to go, all those stories coming up. 0 d all those stories coming up. if your dry eye symptoms keep coming back, inflammation in your eye might be to blame. looks like a great day for achy, burning eyes over-the-counter eye drops typically work by lubricating your eyes and may provide temporary relief. ha! these drops probably won't touch me. xiidra works differently,

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. we're getting a glimpse at what the upcoming school year could look like courtesy of a few districts that have already started their fall terms. among them, that high school in georgia that earned national scrutiny for viral images posted by a student showing crowded hallways and very few masks. as it happens, yesterday the superintendent of that district contacted parents because at least nine people tested positive for the virus. so those students are back at home today and tomorrow doing online classes only while administrators do what they call a deep clean. parents won't know if their kids will be going to school on wednesday until tuesday night. that as a new report from the american academy of pediatrics and the children's hospital association finds that at least 97,000 children in the united states tested positive in just the final two weeks of july.

that's a 40% increase from the total number of cases before that period. that brings the total number up to an estimated 338,000 cases reported among children since the pandemic began. joining us now is dr. vin gupta, a global health policy expert and msnbc medical contributor. let me start with that last statistic about 97,000 in just the last couple of weeks of july. what's your sense of what's happening here? is it more testing? is it because it's summer and kids are out running around? what do you take away from those numbers? >> good afternoon, chris. the big takehome here and it's really important to emphasize this, the majority of those new cases are in southern and western states led by arizona. that's important, chris, because, yes, testing has increased in states that are

known hot zones but what was less clear because of poor messaging from the top, from the president, was are children immune? this data, in addition to a ream of other data prior to it, should put that to rest. every parent in every school district in every part of the country should be very clear, your children are not immune. teachers that go into these schools that are still opening, you're still at risk, as are children. that, number one, is really important to emphasize, chris, that places that are seeing outbreaks, high spikes like arizona, community transmission is happening. schools are not being spared, children are not being spared, so that's the main reason why you're seeing what you're seeing. >> one of the examples today, for example, the governor of georgia ruled out ordering masks being mandatory in public school systems. he said you know what, let's leave that up to each individual school system.

does it still have a little bit of a feel that we're making this up as we go along with, frankly, kids and their families' lives at stake here? >> it absolutely does. you know, governor kemp has been a frequent foil here for any scientists or public health official. when we get asked what's the problem here, why are we still battling this when other countries have somehow figured this out, i look to governor kemp's example of poor leadership. i don't know why he's doing what he's doing, but to say that masks should be encouraged if not mandated in school districts across his state is foolish and is public health malpractice. to your point, chris, no school district is fully ready, even new york city, across new york state. they're in a better position to re-open because infection rates are lower, trending down. but do they have rapid testing on site for teachers and tun students, no. series after series of

scientific studies suggested that the only way to keep schools open is to have rapid point of care testing embedded in school districts, yes. a great study that was published last week in jama. chris, here's the issue here, you're going to now see across the country school districts and universities that are haves and those that are have nots. school districts in affluent neighborhoods that can afford these rapid point of care machines, elite universities that can afford them and public universities and public school districts in inner urban city areas that will not be able to afford this. that is going to be the reality here. we need to face that. our elected leaders need to deter against that through increased federal subsidies to make sure everybody's safe. >> let's talk about that school in georgia because they sent home a note and two things struck me immediately. one was there was absolutely no mention of contact tracing and

in the "atlanta journal-constitutio journal-constitution", two kids who tested positive said they have no idea bho thwho they wer contact with. it's the beginning of school, you're walking around in classes, going down the hall. the second thing was no mention of testing. let me read from the letter that was september home to parents. if your child exhibits any of these covid-19 symptoms, the cdc and dph recommend your child be tested as soon as possible. in addition, please notify the school front office as it is imperative that students who are showing symptoms stay home and quarantine. so not we're testing. parents, it's on you. >> i think this is a fundamental distraction and unfortunately just not the right messaging from the dph in georgia. we know system-based screening is not enough the younger the individual is. in this case, school-aged children, whether they're 18 or 8, if they're positive and transmitting the virus, they're likely asymptomatic.

so searching and screening for something like a fever when you're likely not to have it if you're young is pointless. it should not be the backbone of a return to school strategy. testing, distancing, ventilation -- ventilation is key. chris, nobody talks about ventilation in school districts, especially public schools and inner urban city areas because they can't ensure adequate ventilation. this administration and elected leaders across the country don't talk about things they cannot intervene upon, one of which is rapid testing which is fairly available, and number two, ventilation which is hard to ensure robust presentation of ventilation when often you have classes in basements, often you just don't have a great ability to ventilate. there's limitations as to what we can do in a pandemic to safeguard the health of children. >> dr. vin gupta, thank you for spending some time with us. it is always so much appreciated. after the break, it's become something of a norm for the

trump white house, apparent corruption in plain sight. what he's up to and the institutional worry it's causing, next. institutional worry it's causing, nex t.

with each subsequent development the questions get ho louder, is donald trump dlib rally slowing down the post office in order to help his chances in the election.

the post master general is a mega donor who 85 days from the election decided the time was right for a chaotic and sweeping overhall. on friday the post master general restructured the executive structure, displacing people with decades of experience, moving some to new positions, others out of leadership roles entirely. that announcement also included a hiring freeze and a request for early retirement authority for nonunion employees. critics of the president say he's trying to sabotage the postal service ahead of the election. it was only a month and a half ago trump identified mail-in voting as the biggest threat to his second term. all that sounding fishy enough for democrats in both chambers of congress that many of them are urging the usps inspector general to investigate. joining our conversation, professor of journalism and politics at morgan state university and a contributor for the greo, jason jason, and from

real clear politics, a.b. stoddard. here's the pushback that this is some sort of corruption. the post office is a mess. it's been a mess. it's been losing money and it had to be fixed now. that's the argument on president trump's side. what do you see happening here? >> first, chris, i really want to thank you for spotlighting this story. i'm actually working on a piece about this and i've been really stunned by the research i've been doing and it's been a washington story and i think more americans need to understand what's going on beyond those who are working at the post office and know across the country that there have been huge slowdowns in the delivery of mail. so as these, quote, reforms have been instituted at the post office which slow down mail and therefore cause more loss in revenue, the new management is describing this as an effort to run it more like a business. this is not a business. this is a constitutionally

enshrined government provided service through which veterans and many americans receive life-saving medications. we get our paychecks and social security checks and communicate with each other and on and on, more important than ever of course in a pandemic. these complaints have come from unions and postal workers around the country. congress in its alarm has asked the new management to explain this. they said these slowdowns are temporary. they're going to produce these efficiencies eventually and it's going to be no problem. the problem is president trump is doing it two steps. one, institute a new management at the post office with reforms that slow everything down. in one apartment complex in minneapolis, hundreds of people got their mail stopped for many, many days so they couldn't vote in the primary, didn't receive their ballots. at the same time, go to twitter and the microphones every other day and say the post office is a mess and the election won't be fair and free and everything will be riddled with fraud so

that it really is slowed down by the time election day comes and people start to lose faith in the post office and then he can say that the election was a mess. >> yeah, and as you know, jason, the concern by a lot of democrats is that it's just one aspect of it. let me read something from "the new york times." imagine not just another florida but a dozen floridas, not just one set of lawsuits but a vast array of them. and instead of two restrained candidates staying out of sight and leaving the fight to surrogates, a sitting president of the united states unleashing all caps twitter blast from the oval office while seeking ways to use the power of his office to intervene. the possibility of an ugly november and perhaps even december and january has emerged more starkly in recent days as president trump complains that the election will be rigged and democrats accuse him of trying to make that a self-fulfilling prophecy. do you see a situation where, among other things, we have a

problem with the post office, we have these ballots that don't get where they need to go in time, whether it's get to the people who want to fill them out or get where they need to go to get counted, we move into such a post-election daytime line that it just reinforces what president trump has been saying since almost the day he was elected, that the re-election will be rigged? >> chris, i got to point out and i read the same article and it was interesting, we have to work on the terminology here. this isn't chaos. chaos is jurassic park, random things that occur. this is intentional. this is a plan. this is throwing a monkey wrench into functional machinery. if you think about it, under most circumstances there's actually an increase in hiring at the post office in the fall because they assume people are sending packages around christmasti christmastime. the president is intentionally destroying an entire government agency just like he gutted out

national security, just like he's tried to gut out the fbi because it may end up being the vehicle through which he ends up losing power. that is what's happening here. there is no question. the fact that even marco rubio has put forward policy saying, hey look, maybe we got to extend the deadline for counts so we can figure out when the electors are coming in. even when the republicans realize that this method doesn't guarantee their victory. we have to be clear about what this is. this is intentional. the problems with the post office have been going on for 20 years because they have a weird structure about how they have to pay off retirement which is different than most other agencies. that can be fixed with the flick of a pen in the office of management and budget. this is donald trump's plan and democrats and republicans who care about democracy have to stop him. it has financial and democratic consequences that we can't even fathom at this point. >> but how do we do that? i'm thinking about what fred hyatt wrote, the head of the

editorial wrote. he said between now and january trump may not be able to create his version of russia or withdraw troops from every nation that anoi noisnois noisn has swept aside aids of stature and independence, purged career officials and installed judges who will be less inclined to stop him. if he wins a second term, do not expect his incompetence to save us. if you go to the heart of that which is if what you're saying is true, jason, what's going to get done about it? >> well, there's a couple things that the democrats can actually do. you can get an inspector general to go in and if there's a problem they can actually put a hold on some of these reforms or at least suggest replacements or fixes for some of these reforms before we get into the fall. the other issue is going to be this and this is going to be really key, you have a fight that's not just at the governor's level but the state

level. who is the secretary of state, who is responsible for counting votes in districts? if you have a local secretary of state, look at arizona, for example, republican governor, but the person in charge of elections is a democrat. if that person is saying look, keep delivering the mail, keep counting it, regardless of what trump does from washington d.c., it won't change the fact that counts are still going. the democrats' plan has to be, one, send in the inspector general, see how many reforms you can stop. two, put as much money into these new covid and investments in the community to make sure you can rehire and replace some of these post office people. and three, make sure you've got a million lawyers on the ground everywhere in every substantive county to make sure that you're starting court cases now. we don't even know how quickly these cases may go through the system but if the count is going in joe biden's favor which i suspect it will, it may not end up mattering. >> i'm curious what you're hearing from democrats you talk

to, a.b., because one of the things that i hear from a lot of democrats that i speak with is that they actually think this is going to be a motivating factor, one of many, for democrats to get out and vote, vote early, vote by mail, and that their best protection may be such a wide margin state by state that any kind of challenge to it becomes a joke. what are you hearing? >> right, so the nightmare for democrats is that the republicans vote largely on election day showing a good night for donald trump where he might not win but is close enough in the key electoral college battle grounds that he tells everyone on twitter that i won and the democrats are going to try to steal it through fraudulent ballots that are going to come in in the weeks to come and you'll hear all about it and it's fake and rigged and then you have ballots counted in maricopa county for joe biden and days later you get counts in swing states later than that and

he continues to denigrate those results in the days that follow november 3rd. that's really a nightmare for democrats. i think at that point he's going to put pressure on republican legislatures in battle grounds even where there's a democratic governor and/or democratic secretary of state to throw it to the house of representatives. it's a long, scary nightmare, but it is important the democrats, like you said, chris, educate their voters now. don't wait until there's another hot spot in your region in the fall. find out the balloting process and get it in the mail as soon as possible so that voters know what the stakes are. >> everyone is staying with me. after the break we've got more to talk about with you folks. two candidates, two completely different messaging strategies. the campaigns are now framing their final arguments and it might surprise you. or not. the topic that team trump seems desperate to avoid. c that team desperate to avoid when you shop with wayfair, you spend less

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a new report from nbc news points out a peculiar trend in donald trump's political strategy, practically erasing the virus and even donald trump himself from his campaign ads. while the biden campaign is spending its biggest share of advertising on unifying to fight the pandemic, no active ads by the president's campaign acknowledged even the existence

of the coronavirus, at all. instead, going on the attack against biden, a sign that even trump's own campaign team isn't sure how to sell his handling of the virus to the american people. and coronavirus response likely behind another round of swing state polling. they show biden pulling ahead of trump in states he won in 2016. the new cbs poll out of pennsylvania, biden leading trump 49/43. wisconsin, another six-point margin, biden sitting at 68% compared to trump's 42. jason and a.b. are back. let me start with the advertising, jason. what do you make of the fact that a president who likes to come out and talk about what a great job he's doing, how they're sending ventilators all over the world, how all the governors love him and thank him for everything that he's done, that it's not even mentioned in a campaign ad? >> because he screwed it up,

chris. he's doing such a terrible job that he can't even put -- look, here's the irony of this advertising campaign, okay? donald trump, who slaps his name on everything, he puts a t. on every tower, puts his name on steaks, on diplomas, now he doesn't want to put his own face on his own commercials. that's how much his brand has been damaged throughout the course of his presidency. the last time we saw this is when republicans didn't want to bring george bush around during the 2008 convention. donald trump is a toxic brand. amongst his supporters, they love him, but he's so polarizing that he's now a galvanizing force tore tfor the democrats. at some point you're going to have to show what you've accomplished. you can't just attack the other side and right now donald trump doesn't have much to show what he's accomplished. >> yeah, at nbc news and i think in most places when you talk to the campaigns, a.b., there really are only six true

battleground states. michigan is one of them and when you look at the poll, biden is up by 11 points, 51 to 40%. do you draw a straight line from coronavirus response, unwillingness to talk about it, defend it, to what we're seeing in these polls? >> absolutely, chris. we've seen this in the polling since the spring after an initial bump for president trump. his surreal and completely politically destructive insistence on denying and dismissing and wishing away the virus when it is the most consuming, important issue in american life right now and will be for a long time because there is no plan to control it is the dominant theme of this election and biden has been very smart about staying focused on the economy and the virus and the two of those things integrated and the president doesn't have a message that's consistent on joe biden. he doesn't have a message consistent on what we would do in the next four years and he won't acknowledge the most important, painful thing in people's lives. it is beyond me that five months in he still continues to think

that he can wake up tomorrow and we won't be thinking about it and neither will the voters. >> jason, the ads by trump are attack ads, and you know one of the things that we've always talked about is the fact that people, when asked, say they don't

by ten points in wisconsin. joe biden is only leading by six. i think some of that partisanship has sort of crystalized in this time but biden's leads had been more stable, and i really think there's a swath of americans, mostly white independents and soft republicans who are like, look, we can't vote for this guy anymore. he's terrible and we don't think joe biden can do a worse job and that could be a fundamental change how americans vote this fall. >> jamie johnson, a.b. stoddard, thank you very much for spending time with us. spending time with us 3 out of 4 people achieved 90% clearer skin at 4 months after just 2 doses. skyrizi may increase your risk of infections and lower your ability to fight them. before treatment, your doctor should check you for infections and tuberculosis. tell your doctor if you have an infection or symptoms,

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two weeks ago 17-year-old justin hunter was forced to say good-bye to his father forever. it happened over the phone and his justin's last words to him were i love you. i mere four days after losing one parent, same hospital, same phone, same last words, justin said good-bye to his mom too. now he's on his own. justin says he'll remember the way his parents loved him and loved each other. eugene hunter was a musician and angie was an hr executive. they would sit at the table in their georgia home, he'd play the saxophone, she would do

paperwork. now that they're gone, justin says he's glad knowing his parents are back together, but even the idea of them in a better place brings him peace. and they'd be so proud of him, given such difficult circumstances. justin told nbc news, quote, i'm going to do everything in their name and for them. i have to keep moving forward. we also want to tell you about robert gray. they called him a-game rob. he was a prolific poker player who was a regular at tables across las vegas. last summer he came close to winning a coveted world series of poker bracelet but settled for second place and $88,000 in winnings. beyond his prowess on the circuit though, robert was a good person. present in nearly every online remembrance descriptions of him, how kind he was, words like authentic, jovial, happy.

that will be his legacy, and we're thinking of his loved ones this afternoon. that does it for this hour. i'm chris jansing in for nicolle wallace. our coverage continues with kasie hunt right after this quick break. break.

welcome to monday. it's "meet the press." i'm kasie hunt, in for chuck todd. we passed another plebleak milestone this weekend. more than 5 million coronavirus infections, nearly 164,000 people have now died here in the u.s. although one potential silver lining is that the number of new cases has finally started to come down. but in so many ways, the incredible damage has already been done and there's still no end in sight. as "the washingt