attention and the vice president is getting for this pick, given that can campaigning has been so different, he's continued the campaign on and off camera. >> professor glaude, you study our life in society for a living, it's your life's calling as an academic, a point i made with you before, second perhaps to only gay marriage, the public polling on the black lives matter movement and its underpinnings and meaning following the death of george floyd makes it one of the fastest moving public issues of our time in terms of acceptance, it's not just a dotted line between the death of mr. floyd and the era we're living in right now, it's a bright red

line. >> indeed. we've seen that change. we've seen that shift in the polling data but we know we still have to grapple with the difficult issue of actually that will look like on the ground concretely in terms of police reform, how are we going to think about the ways budgets are determine and money is allocated, thinking about the debates around defund the police and the like. i think it's important. it's important to vice president bi biden that he takes it seriously as nominating an african-american woman as his vice president running mate. want to be clear, we don't want to fall into the trap, identity politics, just a talk about a black woman or just a white woman, we want to be clear about the policies, there's still this interesting debate happening within the democratic party between this progressive wing and this centrist wing even

though there's unity the clear objective of getting donald trump out of office. the progressive wing of the party at the ballot box with rashida tlaib in michigan, cori bush, there's still this element, what will be the policy issues, how are we going to address the situation on the ground? i think it's important that president biden have the symb symbolic representation of the country and we have to pair that with substantive policy transformation that will hopefully right this ship because we're in deep trouble across the board. >> professor, you've seen the short list, i think it started off as 11 or a dozen women, has been narrowed down from there, looking at the list of the possible, is it possible to you that he could make a bad

decision? >> well, yes. of course. it's possible he could make a bad decision, and particularly how the rollout happens, i think politically it would make more sense for him to choose a black woman running mate. the skilled kons tunesy that could help the ticket. but, you know there's a way he could make a bad decision in terms of how he justifies his ultimate choice, at the end of the day, again, i want to emphasize this brian, what this ticket must do is offer a road, a pathway to transformation, how are we going to get out of the mess that we're in? the tandem must inspire, must motivate a variety of con

studentsy. to get rid of donald trump in november. >> yamiche, an opinion question to put you on the spot, i'll ask you a question about process and that is about this president who we know of course is a huge admirer of yours, there will be as i said to andrea mitchell, probably realtime trolling on twitter from the sitting president of the united states. there are also at least two television cable networks aligned with his thinking, i'm thinking there's a formidable campaign of opposition locked and loaded against whoever it's going to be. >> i think that you're right in that i think the trump campaign is chomping at the bit to figure out who the vice presidential

pick is, because they'll be ready with opposition research, if it's susan rice, they'll start talking about benghazi. and if it's kamala harris, it will be about joe biden attacking her in that first debate. some of their critiques are critiques about policy but some of them are misleading information. joe biden doesn't back abolishing the police. there's this idea, it's a touch yo subject, if joe biden and support erts of joe biden, this reason why this person was picked because she's black woman, and not skills, you get the right, this really wasn't the best candidate. much like any other place in the world has to really talk about

diversity, have you to be about diversity, the ticket was made better because of this person and as a result, race and gender is part of why it's being made better. i have to say i hired that person because their skills and their life experience brought to this company that would be valuable that would make us better. >> absolutely, and the quote to yamiche's point from eddie glaude is that the danger of falling into what you called an easy debate on identity politics. long after we know the name of this candidate today, we'll try to remember the lessons we have just learned. with our thanks to yamiche alcindor and eddie glaude. our lead reporting that joe

bi biden has reached his decision. we're waiting to learn the name while also working the story hard on our end. when we come back -- an united states member close to the biden campaign. the biden campaign and can't wait until you are too. universal orlando resort. buy now and get two days free at the parks. restrictions apply.

get your glow back. start running again with a boost of b vitamins and energy from green tea. new dunkin' refreshers. order ahead via the dunkin' app for a contactless way to order and pay. america runs on dunkin'. to order and pay. puts its customers a wiin charge?rier well, the good news gets shared. and it gets rated #1 for customer satisfaction. but don't just take our word for it. take theirs. it's your wireless. your rules. only with xfinity mobile. call, click or visit a store today.

40 minutes after the hour, the news remains the same, our lead story this hour is our reporting indicates the former vice president joe biden has reached his decision on a running mate. what's left now is the timing and form of the announcement. all hands working on that effort. in the interim we're joined now by someone who knows the biden campaign well, former vice president, one of few physicians on capitol hill, also a member of the house foreign affairs committee as well as the science base and technology committee, congressman, first of all, the question i just asked professor eddie glaude jr. of princeton, is it possible given the list as we know it that the former vice president can make a bad

decision considering the timing we're in this in country? >> when i hook at the list of candidates you see really qualified, strong women on that list and you see the diversity, you know, african-american women, latina women, asian women, and governors on there, i think he has great list to choose from and i trust the vice president, he's been very judicious in his thought process and selection process, and i think we're going to be excited about who he picks. >> tell us about enthusiasm, tell us about turnout, motivation in your home state of california. >> yeah, i think in california, there's certainly a level of enthusiasm, obviously there's two californians on that list, congresswoman bass and senator harris, excited about that, you

know, and, i think california is ready for new leadership and ready for vice president biden to become president biden, certainly california is here to, you know, deliver the state for vice president biden but we're also going to work extremely hard to deliver the country and, you know, the administration. >> some believe that selecting a senator or a congresswoman from california, if you're an east coast democrat violates all the rules, the rule book says to select someone who can deliver a state to you that you can't get on your own, but i guess we're living in all new times starting with a virtual announcement today. >> yeah, very different times, and yeah, i think at the end of the day this election in november is really going to be a

refer endumb jendum ion trump. joe biden, his steady leadership, his compassion and empathy and understanding at this moment in time we have to bring the country together to, you know, help heal the differences, you know, to address the racial inequities, the law enforcement and the social issues around george floyd's murder. i think the vice president is going to pick a running mate that reflects this moment in time and a governing partner that will help us heal this country and restore america's place in the world. >> now to your life's work and that of being a physician, what do you do, how do you process just take yesterday's briefing by the president, he has clearly decided this is basically a problem for the elderly, he has

clearly decided to stress the numbers that are on the upside in our country and to paraphrase him, we're going to be doing great in a very short period of time, how do you process that as a physician, how do you advise the people around you who may be tempted to go on, get out and reverse these days of lockdown we've all had together? >> yeah, this has been the largest failure of leadership in my lifetime, just again the incompetence of president trump's handling of the pandemic, he's almost done everything exactly the opposite of what you would want to do, if we would just listen to dr. fauci, dr. redfield and dr. birx, we know our steps, wear a face covering, wash your hands frequently, practice physical distancing, avoid large gatherings particularly indoor

gatherin gatherings. and the most important thing we can do as we start to go into the fall, make sure you get the flu shot this year, and as a doctor, we're already going to be struggling with a likely resurgence of covid-19 in the fall and winter, let's try to make it easier by getting our flu shots and minimizing the incidents of flu. i would tell people not to listen to president trump, but listen to the doctors and the scientists and follow their advice. >> final question, how many physicians are there total, senate and house combined, and the trickier question, if you brought all the docs in congress together, and closed the door, would you have consensus that what we're hearing from the white house briefing room, and the president, happens to be wrong? >> i believe there are three

democratic doctors house and senate and 13 republican doctorses, senate and house. if you would put us in a room we'd all be shaking our heads and even publicly, you see some of the republican doctors step out there and say, you know, you've got to wear those face coverings, you got to wash your hands and take this pandemic seriously. but, yeah, i would imagine the majority of the doctors would shake their heads and say, what the president trump is doing is taking us down a really bad path. >> our thanks at this hour to congressman and doctor barrera from california another break in our coverage as we await the announcement of joe biden's vice presidential selection. - [narrator] did you just reward yourself for spending a perfectly reasonable amount of time on the couch with tacos from grubhub? grubhub's gonna reward you for that with a $5 off perk. (doorbell rings) - [crowd] grubhub! (fireworks exploding)

we are back repeating our breaking news. our top story, and that is our

reporting that joe biden has reached his decision in the selection of a running mate. it's all over but the shouting. the actual announcement which may be virtual, may come in via our phones, and it may come in via the army of men and women, the journalists we have on the story. to that end, let's bring in our next guest, former mayor of baltimore, stephanie rawlings blake who was secretary of the democratic national committee. mayor, what in your view, noting this moment in our nation's history, what in your view should motivate joe biden's thought process, his selection process? >> i think you have to start with the relationship that he had with president obama. he knows firsthand the partnership, the relationship that is going to be needed to tackle the problems that we have today. and i don't think there could be

a better person to make this selection than joe biden. i know several of the members on the search committee and i have full confidence that they've vetted someone that is up to the task and will be ready to hit the ground running day one, which is today. >> you've seen the names on the list. let me ask you the question i've just asked our two previous guests. is it possible he can make a bad decision? and by that i mean get the times wrong? >> the wonderful thing about the list of people that are in contention or that we think are in contention is that it just shows the biden administration will be a reflection of our country. it will be a richly diverse and qualified cabinet and administration, unlike the administration that we have now that has, i think, historic high vacancy in several positions because of the unwillingness so many have to serve a president

who is clearly not up to the job. >> let me ask you, because when you watch -- even for folks who pay attention but perhaps not close attention, when you watch trump at peculiar gatherings, why is it he never misses an opportunity to disparage your city? >> he is the king of cheap shots and he's also not very creative. he goes back to the same lines over and over. baltimore is a great city with a great history, and, you know, we have our challenges like many of the cities that we're seeing across the country. b but, just like our country, i'm optimistic about baltimore's future, and i know we'll be better under the biden administration. >> and for people who have not checked in, in a while, how has

your city done during the pandemic thus far? >> you know, i think we're so richly blessed with resources like johns hopkin's hospital right in baltimore and public health officials that have been informing the work and working with our health department, our mayor is, you know, working around the clock to make sure that testing is available throughout the city. we just need everyone to be on board and be safe. wear a mask, socially distance and help to get us over this hump. >> what will you do for the biden ticket? >> everything i can. everything within my power to ensure that joe biden is our next president. we don't have any other options. if we want to have a country that's successful, a country that will thrive and a country that will ensure that the united

states -- that my daughter will see will be one that i will be proud of. >> thank you, mayor, for having us in. stephanie rawlings-blake has been our live guest. former mayor of baltimore, maryland. another break is in our future, as we remind everyone watching, we're waiting on an official announcement. it may come in minutes. may come in hours from the biden campaign. nbc news reporting joe biden has, indeed, reached his decision on a running mate. don't go anywhere. we're back after this.

4:00 p.m. hour in the east has arrived. normally the home of nicolle wallace and "deadline: white house." for right now, we're chasing the breaking news story of this hour. that is our reporting that the former vice president, joe biden, has reached his decision on a running mate selection. it's all over but the shouting. we are awaiting the word from the campaign, either through our team of journalists or through public media, through social media. a virtual announcement certainly turning on its ear. the usual procedure followed during this kind of unveiling as we are, after all, in the midst of a pandemic. two of our journalists following

this story, mike memoli in wilmington, delaware, which has become his second home these many weeks and months, and kristen welker at her second home. happens to be the north lawn of the white house covering the trump presidency as our white house correspondent. kristen, do you, and i'm reminded that what normally happens during this process is once a selection is made, it's very important that the other candidates for the job not learn that it's not them through the media, so the candidate usually gets on the phone and has to break the news to all of them. >> that's absolutely right. historically speaking, brian, you'd have the candidate reaching out to each of the potential concontinue econtendet going to get the position to tell them personally they're not going to be the pick for the running mate. that process can take some time and undoubtedly, before biden

makes his announcement about who his running mate is to the world, he has alerted all of those who did not get the nod. but in talking to a source familiar with the matter, we can report that biden has made his pick for a running mate, and we do expect an announcement as early as today. of course, biden has blown past many self-imposed deadlines. he committed to choosing a woman a long time ago. so the question becomes, who is that person going to be among the top contenders we've been watching closely. senator kamala harris, susan rice, michigan's governor, gretchen whitmer. some of the other names that have gotten a fair amount of buzz, tammy duckworth as well as elizabeth warren, so there's really a question mark about who he's going to pick because, of course, there are pros and cons to all of these potential

choices. i've been frantically texting my sources trying to get the name of who this individual is going to be. so far, no response. we do know the pressure has mounted on biden in recent weeks and days to pick someone who is african-american, not only in the wake of the protests we've seen stretch out across the country calling for racial equality but, really, the sense that this is an inflection point as it relates to race relations in this country. so that's where some of the pressure points are coming from. there's a sense and some concern inside biden world that there could be a backlash if he doesn't pick someone who is african-american. then, of course, you have someone like gretchen whitmer who could help him win a key swing state. we've been told all along that among the things he is considering, do no harm, and also someone with whom he has a

simpatico relationship. that relationship he had with barack obama. that was not a relationship that existed on day one. that was something that developed over time. it was really solidified after the two men worked to get health care passed. so the entire political world is watching and waiting to see who this all-important pick will be, brian. >> kristen welker on the north lawn of the white house, just one of our journalists combing her phone and sources and all available means to find out this news. over to mike memoli in wilmington, delaware. mike, we have to say, we've had leaks in this business before. we've had candidates spotted, flight paths filed for by private aircraft that have given away the identity. this has been pretty air tight, and i say that knowing we could be moments away from our devices blowing up with a name.

>> that's exactly the plan, brian. this is the closest of holds. there have been calls out to individuals who are part of this process and the identity is not out there, but i'm guided in terms of where we stand at this moment by the process biden envisioned and what has materialized over the last several weeks. it's been so interesting since the end of the nomination process itself, in mid-april. biden has seen one part of this vice presidential search process as a way to elevate some names in the party. he has talked about himself as a bridge to the next generation of democrats, and as we went through this process, we saw a number of names that were not necessarily household names like mayor keisha lance bottoms, a surrogate for the campaign. karen bass. a late entry into this process. tammy baldwin, the senator from wisconsin. tammy duckworth, the senator from illinois.

everyone had a moment in the spotlight as names were speculated. but i'm also guided by the fact that since even before joe biden got into this race, that there's been a name that's been on the forefront of a lot of people's thinking. and that's been california senator kamala harris. she is somebody, obviously, who was close to -- not just joe biden but beau biden, his son. they served as the attorneys general of their respective states at the same time. there were a number of pictures of the two of them in the run up to the beginning of the 2020 race that led everyone to be thinking this certainly looks like a good ticket without any knowledge, of course, of where this process was heading. the moment that changed what everyone assumed would be a natural choice if not the inevitable choice for joe biden should he win the nomination was that moment in miami. our own first presidential debate in which she went at the former vice president on his record over busing. the conversation as we've heard from the former vice president that he established the timeline

he intended to go with for his pick of the first week of august. it certainly led to, in biden's view, a change in what he hoped for this process, rather than uplifting a number of names in the party. he grew concerned this process was potentially harming the choice of -- or that some of the names he hoped would be elevated. we saw a number of discussions about opposition research being traded among potential candidates trying to raise one person's status at the expense of another. but there's a very real effort that is now being executed in the biden campaign to bring everything together just as they tried to do once biden became the nominee. there's a term you're starting to see on social media accounts of biden's staff. mvp, madam vice president. an effort on the part of surrogates for the campaign to, in the last hour or so as we know the former vice president had made his selection, to pledge instantly that they would support whomever joe biden

chooses. and now we're waiting for the official virtual announcement, as we expect, from the biden campaign and ultimately, we expect in the next 24 hours or so, an in-person joint appearance by the democratic presidential nominee and his newly selected vice presidential nominee. >> mike memoli, quick question about geography. you're on the delaware river that is downtown wilmington behind you. several buildings in downtown wilmington are at least partially populated by members of the biden staff. one of them, who knows, could be the vice presidential pick. how far is the biden, i want to say family compound, the house off the private lane that joe biden has called home for so many years? how far is that from where you are? >> i would say it's about a 15-minute drive. you go just north of the city of wilmington. a neighborhood, the community called greenville. one of the difficult aspects of

what has been a very close vigil here in wilmington for the last few weeks has not just been the fact that when i was camped out in joe biden's driveway 12 years ago when he was senator joe biden without any secret service protection, with very limited footprint here, we were able to set up shop in his driveway. we saw his comings and goings all week. he at times stopped to give us bagels. his niece stopped to give us some ice cream. there hasn't been that same kind of access to biden's home this time around. he's a protectee of the secret service as he has been for most of the last 12 years as you'd expect. so the glimpse that we have of the comings and goings on his very narrow two-lane road nearby have been minimal and haven't let us necessarily see any individuals who might be coming or going. one aspect of this we talk about an in-person appearance tomorrow potentially. the campaign has been promoting for some time now that the first chance the public would likely get to see them almost as quickly as they're able to

announce it would be a virtual grassroots fundraiser. that's something that would be interesting if they're together in that setting. it's something that is certainly possible at this point, and we're waiting for word to see if that's the picture that we'll see tonight. >> all right. mike memoli, wilmington, delaware. we'll let you go back to your device, your phone and what have you. wave your arms wildly if we need to come back to you for a name. let's widen our conversation to bring in two of our veteran contributors. former democratic senator from the great state of missouri, claire mccaskill and "washington post" columnist eugene robinson. welcome to you both. senator, i'd like to begin with you. what tea leaves do you prefer to read at this hour? >> well, you know, the interesting thing is this has been so hard for journalists because of the virtual nature of this announcement. you know, flight patterns don't mean anything because i kind of

think most of this has been done through zoom and through the phone because this candidate for president respects the dangers this pandemic represents and his role in setting a good example for the country. and so he's been very careful, whether it's masks or, you know, saying no to big events. this is a candidate who is going to continue to respect the pandemic. and what america should be doing. and that's made it harder for the journalists to figure out who the vice president is going to be. i've had the pleasure of talking to a couple of the finalists over the last week. friends of mine. and what i was struck with, brian, is the conversations mostly centered on how willing they were to help the ticket no matter what. i know people have been out there dropping oppo research on these women. people have been trying to stir the waters. but i don't get the sense from the actual finalist, the vice president, that that is

something they've been participating in or condoning. i sense a real unity among all of these people that are being considered, all of these women that are being considered. a solidarity that no matter who gets the final nod, they are going to be unified in doing everything they can to make joe biden president of the united states. >> claire, have you been surprised by that? notably, there was the oppo dump on karen bass out of nowhere, days after her name started to surface and she started garnering some of the talk in this race. bang, her comments on castro of cuba. bang, her comments on scientology. it's a tough business you've chosen, and that stuff is, of course, always out there just beneath the surface. >> well, i don't -- i can't say for certain that this wasn't some democratic operative somewhere that thought she was not going to be the right vice president.

but it wouldn't surprise me if it was operatives on the other side just stirring the waters with lots of negativity because all of them have had things that have been put out there in the public space trying to diminish who they are and what they've accomplished. i think particularly some of the stuff that got out there that, you know, that kamala was hard to get along with or that she was too ambitious, you know, that stuff -- i don't think was coming from these women or people at their direction. i think there were other people out there that were trying to stir the waters and make it more difficult writ large for the entire field or potentially, there might have been somebody trying to hurt more or one of them, but i don't think it was coming from the women themselves. >> to our viewers briefly and then to gene. nbc news has learned, according to our reporting, sources connected with the biden effort, that the former vice president

has now called and notified all of those who were under consideration, presumably in addition to telling his choice that she is the choice to run with him. but also presumably to let them all off the hook so they heard from him personally. eugene robinson, you are the one with the pulitzer in this conversation so you get compensated to put this in a gentle way. i think this process, in addition to what claire noted, we're sitting here in the midst of a pandemic. we've become a zoom meeting nation as these two conventions are going to be. this had as palpable an air that a nominee could indeed be selecting a future president of the united states, as any selection process, i think in our lifetime. >> probably more so because we will have the two oldest candidates ever to square off in

a presidential race. who is running for vice president matters. actuarially, that's just the fact. if joe biden is healthy and he'll probably be fine, but, of course, you have to take that in mind. one thing that struck me about the commentary around this process, not the process itself, but the commentary around this process was a still unhealthy overlay of sexism, and so, you know, criticizing the women who are on the list as being too ambitious, for example, is -- gee, i thought people who aspired to an office like vice president and who had achieved what the women on joe biden's list have achieved generally were applauded for their ambition. so maybe we're -- maybe this is a ratchet -- another ratchet on

the road to getting past all of that. and in getting to where so many other countries have gotten in terms of women as leaders, as executive leaders. we are way behind the rest of the world on that. other than that, my sources in the biden campaign are giving me crickets. the same crickets they're giving mike memoli. so i kind of go with the conventional wisdom that it's perhaps down to kamala harris and susan rice, but i just don't know. >> yeah, to our viewers, we have basically a small army of people working on this and just because they're not all in front of live cameras doesn't mean they're not hard at work. we'll go to them immediately when we have an answer. claire mccaskill, let's talk about the role of one congressman clyburn.

in the race, you and i were able to krchronicle in its early stas when we were aloud lowed to seeh other -- >> i'm sorry? oh, i think -- i am just being told we have a pick and it's kamala harris of california. just told in my ear at this second. for the record, those applause were from claire mccaskill. kamala harris is the breaking news biden has selected the california senator as his running mate. who do we have up. mike memoli, wilmington? >> well, what was i just saying, brian? the obvious choice to a lot of folks before this process is indeed the final choice for the former vice president. it's california senator kamala harris. i think a number of factors to take into consideration.

one, when we've seen vice presidential -- when we've seen a vice presidential choice that's been a surprise, what has been a common theme? it's been somebody who needed to shake up the race. i think sarah palin being chosen by john mccain in 2008. think of geraldine ferraro by walter mondale in 1984. this, of course, is a campaign that is feeling very much confident in its current standing in the polls, aware, of course, when you're running against donald trump, things can change in a hurry. but what has been, of course, number one rule in vice presidential search process is do no harm. and this seems to be, by the account of a lot of democrats who have been close to this process, the advice that joe biden has been getting. we've talked about a virtual announcement, a digital announcement. i'll read to you briefly from the email that's just shown up in our inbox. biden beginning by explaining what he thought he needed in a running mate. these are not normal times.

i need somebody working alongside me who is smart, tough and ready to lead. kamala is that person. typically, of course, it's not a surprise to see a candidate chosen as joe biden was in 2008 who served and was part of the presidential race as well. we know that eric garcetti, a member of the four-person search committee said that everyone passed the vet. but certainly there's -- i think a degree of comfort on everybody's part that kamala harris herself was part of this presidential race. she was vetted during the course of that. and let's not forget. she was vetted in the course of a career in california politics, not being involved by any means. she was elected statewide twice as the attorney general and then as a u.s. senator in 2016. and so for a campaign that is eager to continue the message, focused squarely on what joe biden has said since day one is about a battle for the soul of

america. clearly biden making that decision that the partner he wants alongside in fighting that battle is somebody he has seen on the campaign trail and sometimes directed at him. willing to fight. and that is kamala harris, brian. >> mike memoli, thank you. claire mccaskill standing by. claire, your applause were noted on live television. talk about your former fellow senator. >> well, she's going to be a terrific vice president. i had the opportunity to watch kamala as she came into the senate. she was on the committee that i was a ranking member of, homeland security, government affairs. i watched her as she questioned people like general kelly over immigration policy. and this is not somebody who is anybody's fool. she was prepared. she was intelligent in terms of the kinds of questions she asked and, most important, she didn't let up.

she is aggressive, and i mean that in all positive ways, in terms of fighting for the things that i think this ticket is going to be fighting for. and i just think she's a terrific pick. i think she'll be a loyal and hard-working candidate. she has been under the lights. and you know, remember, her election in 2010 was close. she's been in tough elections, not just -- i think we think of people running in california as never having a tough election, but, you know, the primary, the system of getting elected out there is very mano-e-mano and it was not a done deal when she ran for attorney general and won. obviously, a lot of competition to step into barbara boxer's seat when she won the election to the senate. so this is somebody who has been toughened by her career. her career shows that she has what it takes. when the pressure is on. and i think she's going to be a great vice president and a

particularly strong candidate. i look forward to the debate against mike pence. >> to that end, reverend al sharpton is among those waiting to react to this live news with us. rev, we should quickly point out what the senator was just alluding to. kamala harris has drawn blood in nationally televised hearings of members of this administration. and has been an aggressive questioner given her legal background. >> she's been aggressive in terms of her legal background as a prosecutor in questioning people that came before a committee in the senate. but she's shown herself to be a very good debater. i went to just about all of the democratic primary debates this year, and as one that was in there myself, i would always talk to her after. she would say, or her sister was

say, how do you think she did? she will give vice president pence a very, very, very bad evening on that debate because she's a great debater. she knows what she's about. i think joe biden could have chosen someone else, but he couldn't have chosen anyone better. she is clearly a great campaigner, but she's also good at governing. she ran that judicial system there in california, and was a great advocate in the senate. i've known her for probably 12, 15 years. and i can tell you she's tough. she's thorough. and she's ready. i talked to her just a few days ago. she had no idea where it was going, but she was willing to go wherever it would lead, whether she was a supporter or whether she was the vice presidential nominee. now that she is the nominee, i don't think that you could have a tougher opponent. i know the trump people are preparing all they can to throw at her, but you cannot have a

better person to throw it at, that it will bounce off her like it didn't mean anything because she's been in tough fights before. so if i were donald trump and mr. pence, i would be ready for a real battle. >> rev, we're seeing some of the pictures from the day i was about to reference. absent ideology or party or bias or any of that, as a sheer campaign event, as an event that required advance work and stage craft, her announcement in oakland was one of the stunners of this cycle. and as someone referenced earlier, campaign didn't work out so well, but that was a truly exciting event on a beautiful day in california. >> 20,000 people of all races, of all generations, it was intergenerational.

it was one of the most memorable events of the 2020 season to see that amount of people standing there. it made her candidacy because it really, without even the speech, which was a great speech that day, it gave her message. and that's the kind of woman that's going to be hitting the trail that can draw people intergenerational, interracial and relate to them. one thing that is good about kamala harris is that usually when you meet people that's been in politics or criminal justice long, they don't have the ability to connect. she seems to have the ability to make people feel like she can relate to them. she's listening to them. she's had the experience. she grew up with her sister with a single mother at a period she understands all sides of america. and that's who you want sitting next to the president of the united states to try to undo an administration that many americans perceive to be not

understanding their plight, not understanding what they went through. no one feels that donald trump or mike pence has lived the average life. kamala harris has lived that life. so has joe biden. and i think their being able to relate is going to be the hidden weapon in this kind of race we're going to see in november. and the more you attack them from the trump side, the more they're going to show that public that that's the kind of people that can get a licking and keep ticking because that's what all of us have had to do in life and we've certainly had to do it through this pandemic. >> rev al sharpton, thank you as always. joy reid's shift begins in a short 90 minutes from now also joining us. joy, you heard reverend al say this is probably the best choice joe biden could have made. do you concur? >> i absolutely concur. and one thing that reverend al left off is when he was a young man, he was the new york youth

organizer for shirley chisholm. and kamala harris, when she launched her presidential campaign that you referenced a little earlier, she rooted her run in shirley chisolm, in the legacy of shirley chisolm. and i have to tell you that for joe biden to choose her, to choose to embrace that legacy at a time when african-americans are questioning whether or not our counterparts in other parts of this country will fully accept our citizenship is the greatest affirmation to the power of black women, to the tenacity of black women, to the legacy of black women as carrying the democratic party on our back for generations. it's a legacy that shirley chisolm began in 1972. and for joe biden to make this choice and to make it after all the back fighting that we heard that, oh, my god, she challenged him on race, he showed himself to be a big man, a big enough

man to say that i want the person that challenges me. i want the person that forces me to be better. i want the person that questions me on matters of race because that's why she's there. i want the woman that people say is too ambitious, wants to be too powerful, has a future. i want that to embrace that, i'm proud of joe biden. i have to say as a man of his generation, to be the anti-trump today. to be the anti-trump and to affirm black women in this way, on this day, with the president that's in there now. this could not be a better selection. he's taken us back to the start. she was always the most logical choice. he did a lot of searching. he did a lot of research and he came right back to where he really should have always been. i think this is a great day for this country. >> joy, is there anyone whose reaction you're curious about or waiting to hear as we go on into the evening?

anyone who you're worried about embracing this choice? >> i'm not worried because i'll tell you, black women that i spoke with, after the conclusion of the primary, there was a sense of nonbuyer's remorse, specifically about kamala harris. i can't tell you how many black women said to me, you know what, looking back on it, i wish i had gotten in formation for her. looking at it, the fact that in the end, mainly black people said let's choose this white guy. this older white guy said, darn it, we missed an opportunity. and i think there are so many black women. the sororities, the organizations that all literally could have gotten in formation for her. i heard a lot of nonbuyer's remorse. black women in particular, that women in general are ready to get in formation for this woman. i think the reaction that i really do want to hear and that i really am excited to hear is going to be barack obama and michelle obama because they

opened that door in a way that can never be closed. and the fact that door stayed hope for kamala harris who at one point barack obama said was the most impressive attorney general in the country. she then becomes a senator. she's following his path. so i'm very excited to hear what the obamas are going to say. maybe particularly michelle because, you know, her podcast is all about becoming and about her ability to embrace all aspects of what it meant to be the first black first lady and all of the challenges that she had dealing with that. so i'm excited to hear what they say. we know trump is going to say something, but i suspect that he's probably a little afraid of kamala harris. i don't think he'll know what to do about her. what name is he going to call her? any name he's tried, that's going to resonate with black people and kanye west running third party won't fix. there's nothing he can say about her. anyone who wants to detract her based on anything is going to face a wall is black women.

like they've never seen. biden just ensured that he will have maximum turnout from african-americans. he just ensured that today. so i'm not really worried about her. and i think women in general are ready. women's organizations are all ready to mount up and defend her all the way to the finish line. >> joy, let's talk about two more constituencies who are likely having a big time of it right now. the community of howard university bison scattered all over the country and the aka sorority sisters. >> yeah, i think all the journalists who aren't sure what it is, you'll see a lot of the sororities. i think the whole divine nine. if you're in a black fraternity or sorority. and one of the sister sororities, the deltas, actually protested during the fight for suffrage because they were not allowed to march with the white women who were fighting for white women's suffrage.

so the sororities and fraternities in this country go back 100 years. they go back a century to the early 20th century. the other bad old days in the first decades of the 20th century when these fraternities and sororities were fighting for inclusion of black people and doing so in incredibly brave ways. i expect the divine nine. every black fraternity and sorority are very excited but especially her own, the akas. not only will she be the first black woman but the first aapi woman. she is also partly asian american so she's the first asian american woman, the first black woman vice presidential candidate, the first black vice presidential candidate. that is big. >> that is a big deal. joy rooeid, thank you for being part of our immediate reaction

coverage following the news we are all seeing on the screen. the name is kamala harris from the state of california. mike memoli in wilmington has some news to add to our conversation before we move on to a very important member of congress. mike? >> brian, we talked earlier about the activity we saw in downtown wilmington. indeed, the biden campaign has advised the first event in which we'll see joe biden and kamala harris together. they'll deliver remarks in wilmington on working together to restore the soul of the nation and fight for working families to move the country forward. that grassroots fundraiser is also likely to follow that. so this event tomorrow in downtown wilmington will be the first time we see those two together, brian. >> mike memoli from his delaware river perch in wilmington, delaware. thank you, mike. let's bring in the house majority whip, veteran democratic congressman jim clyburn of the state of south

carolina. as i've been saying during our coverage for months now, as personally responsible as any other individual for the fact that we are talking about presumptive democratic nominee joe biden. congressman, you're very nice to join us. your reaction to the naming of kamala harris to this ticket? >> thank you very much for having me, brian. i'm ecstatic. as you know, i'm the father of three daughters. i have been saying what a plus it would be to have an african-american woman on the ticket. i just believe that we are breaking ground here in such a way that every single person in this country, irrespective of gender or color is going to be very proud that we're making this kind of a breakthrough. we're crashing through at a time that people are reaching out to each other, wanting to see this country live out its true creased and this is a big, big

step. and i think joy is right. my sister's sorority is deltas, but i'm as proud of this as any other member of the african-american sorority and fraternity community. i'm from south carolina state, an hbcu. but howard has always been a competitor for us at south carolina state, but not this time. we are going to come together. and we are going to run around this country. we're going to do what's necessary to get this ticket elected. i'm glad it wasn't me having to make this choice. these were great people to choose from. i think he has chosen well. >> did you just break news that you'll become a bison fan? >> on november 3rd, but after

that i'll go right back to my bulldog country. >> that's fair. congressman, does this choice -- does this choice take care of any concerns you might have had about excitement, motivation, turnout? >> absolutely. you know, i think people have been motivated for a long, long time. african-americans have been motivated. but i really believe this gives that extra shot in the arm. you know, i have really worked hard to make sure that our party is exclusive or inclusive of everything that it can be inclusive of. and this demonstrates this old adage about democrats taking black people for granted. this is another demonstration of the fact that ain't true and it never was true, but it's really -- demonstrative of the fact it's not true. and joe biden made the -- he was at my endorsement. he said at that time he was

looking forward to putting an african-american woman on the supreme court. this could be a double wammy for us. i'm going to be running around saying to people, we've got a vp choice on the ticket, and we know an african-american woman will be coming to the supreme court. that's a double reason for us to get to the polls on election day. so this is huge. and this is everything that we need to incent people to turn out the vote come october 3rd. we want to start 30 days out. we aren't going to wait on november 3rd. november 3rd may be election day, but we are declaring election month this year. and we are dedicating this entire election year to my late friend john r. lewis. >> understood. congressman james clyburn, south carolina. as i said, and it bears repe

repeating, as personally responsible as anyone in this country for the fact that the conversation we're having is about the choice of the presumptive nominee, joe biden. it was that night, that primary that turned that campaign around. congressman, good health. thank you very much for adding your voice to the instant reaction we are getting to the naming of kamala harris, senator from california. i believe eugene robinson is still available to us and of counsel to our coverage. the pulitzer prize-winning columnist with "the washington post." eugene, i have circled back around to you to get your reaction in the moment to this news. and let me focus you on one question. joe biden said it would be someone with qualities he needed. didn't necessarily have. how does this fill in that

blank, do you think? >> well, that's an interesting question, brian. i think she -- they both have the empathetic connection thing going for them. she is a woman of color. she is a black woman, an asian-american woman, and so thus makes history. but she has that different life experience that is particularly relevant at this moment. at this moment when the nation is seeking to grapple with centuries of systemic racism. and so for a parent who is going to inherit this issue, and it's really been a crisis since the death of george floyd with protests continuing still in cities around the country and

polls showing that people really want to engage and to do something about this original sin of this nation's formation that's never been expiated. as joe biden if he is elected comes to grapple with the moment, he will have a woman with a very different lived experience who knows the issues of systemic racism from the other side. and so i think that will be enormously valuable to him. you know, it is a fascinating choice. i think it looks like theological choice at the beginning of the process, and then there would be toward this way and that way and i think there were other good candidates in the end. it was always said of senator harris that she ticked all the boxes, and i think she did, particularly the fact that she

did run for president. she did sit under the -- that massive glare of scrutiny that any presidential candidate does and so she's been through that fire. and thus won't be encountering it for the first time. go back over her campaign. she started with that amazing rally that you mentioned earlier. and then followed it up with that haymaker that she landed on the chin of joe biden in that first debate. then she didn't really have a follow up. and i think my reporting at the time told me that was maybe more due to the -- to her campaign than to her. but i think she became a better and certainly more experienced campaigner on the national stage as the campaign went along. but by then, it had gone at a different direction and was not to be her as the presidential nominee. so this is a second chance on

the national stage for her. and i think the first experience will have been something of a crucible for her. and i think probably will have given her a lot of experience that will come in handy in the next few months. she also has a certain sort of fire and passion and prosecutorial fangs, if you want to describe them that way, that in a way joe biden doesn't have. and i think that's another thing. that's often the role of a vice presidential candidate is to be sort of -- is to be on the attack. and she's very good at that. she is a prosecutor's prosecutor. and so i think not just toward mike pence and that coming debate but also toward president trump and the entire administration. i think she will be a brutal

critic and probably an effective one. >> eugene, final question because we're in a visual medium. what does this do to the picture? >> it makes it look more like america. it really does. it makes it look more like the america that we are becoming than the other party, which looks more like the america we once were or the america that many think we once were. and we are not as white a country. we are not as high bound and straightened a country as the republican party or at least its leadership would tend to show. so if you take a picture of the republican ticket and a picture of the democratic ticket, i think you see the past on the

republican side. i think you see something that looks more like the present and the future on the democratic side. and, you know, we'll find out whether americans si s see it t way as well. >> as i always say at the conclusion of an interview with eugene robinson, that's why he has the pulitzer prize. friend, thank you very much for your patience on stopping by today. before we head over to princeton university, let's talk to the normal occupant of this hour. nicolle wallace has been able to phone into us to react to the naming of her fellow californian. nicolle, your off-the-cuff reaction? >> well, i'll just share a few pieces of information that i picked up in my reporting. one from the biden side of the spectrum and one from the trump side of the spectrum. i think what this says about joe biden is a really good thing. there was no one tougher on him,

if you remember those earliest debates when there were so many democratic candidates for the nomination that they took up two stages. she was the toughest on him. what has become the issue at the beating heart of this country around questions of race. no one was tougher on him than her, and if there was a hurdle to this election from people around him, it was just the sharpness of the attack. that he picked her said something really good about her and her courage at sort of being blunt and bringing important issues to the front before they were coursing through the national conversation at the pace with which they are now and knowing him. knowing he needed that. the other piece of reporting i've picked up in the past week was from the trump team that from their viewpoint, because donald trump has no capacity to understand that this is the selection of a person to run the

government with the president, he only saw this in terms of a casting for the night of primetime coverage that is the vice presidential debate, and this was the pick that scared them the most. they thought that she would more than go -- my dog and son are in the car. that's my dog barking. sorry. they thought she would more than go toe-to-toe with pence. they thought she could chew him up and spit him out and pointed to her cross-examination of one bill barr. i think on both sides of the aisle this said something really important about biden's ability to pick the best person in his view, and it says something really interesting about how the trump campaign, which i think has now been reported donald trump is already deep into his own debate prep. they view those debates as important and view him as starting. a real distinct advantage over vice president pence. >> two things you mentioned are so important. number one, the notes we saw

from digital photography of joe biden's last press availability showed that he was prepared to talk about kamala harris during q&a. first, among other topics, and one of the things we could distern from his hand writing was, and i'm paraphrasing, don't hold grudges because it was so sharp a moment at that debate because this will, at the end of the day, say something about his character and willingness to choose the right person. that part of this, nicolle, is so interesting. along with what you raise, this is a woman, an attorney with a very sharp mind, a veteran cross-examiner who drew blood against members of this government in live televised

hearings. >> drew blood against former vice president biden. i don't know that there's a better debater or questioner on the political field right now. her skill-set is unmatched in terms much being able to articulate an argument, to patiently wait to make her point and look at the argument that the democratic ticket has to make. that the tragedy that's gripped this country that will now prevent most of our kids from going back to school or from going back to school safely didn't have to be this tragedy. there is such a clear, unifying case to be made against donald trump and especially against vice president pence. and pence has that thing that trump doesn't have. he can be made to display shame. and her skills and, again, i think biden picked her to help him run the country, to help him heal the country, to help him

fix the country. i don't have any reporting that he selected her for the purposes of that debate. but in terms of the psychological impact on the other side, i think they're regrouping right now and probably already trying to figure out how to challenge her. and she's not just going to be making the argument against pence. she's going to be making the argument against donald trump every single day between now and election day, and that is a seismic advantage for the biden/harris ticket. >> to our viewers, that's the best reporting from a moving car with son and dog on board that you will ever hear from the normal host of this two-hour period. nicolle wallace, thank you, friend, for calling in and reacting in realtime. and with such precision to this news. thank you. i promised we would stop in to princeton university along the way. professor eddie glaude jr. has

been kind enough to hang out with us. he heard the news in realtime. he's ready to react to realtime. professor, what do you make of the selection? >> this is savvy political he's exciting the base. there was a sense people were more motivated to get donald trump out of office than they were about the biden candidacy. now the base will be excited, turnout will be even higher now. you heard that in representative clyburn's voice, in joy reed's voice. he moves the chess piece in an interesting way. we have been hearing from donald trump and his surrogates that biden was beholden to the radical left. i don't know if that works with kamala harris on the ticket, but it raises questions how will the left respond to the pick.

i want to hear what bernie sanders is thinking, what aoc is thinking, what elizabeth warren is thinking. but more importantly, i want to hear what black activists on the ground who know kamala harris' record as ag, what they're thinking. so we see this interesting moment here that's really, really wise. in the third move, i want to say this very clearly, we knew, brian, that this election was the most important election in our lifetime. we knew it was a choice, a momentous choice. now it is a stark choice between two americans and old america as eugene said and a new america. the reckoning is now clearly in november at the ballot box, and it is represented symbolically. now we need to see it represented at the level of policy. this is an extraordinary political moment for us and i'm really excited to see what comes. >> so just when you thought it

couldn't be in more stark relief, in your view the choice just got more stark. >> exactly. exactly. i mean, look, you have biden and kamala harris. you have donald trump and you have mike pence. what a choice for the country to make. >> professor eddie glau, jr., thank you for hanging out with us to react to the news. we bring in another friend of the broadcast, elesia menendez. your reaction? >> historic. in krepd belie incredible to watch the other women considered for the role react.

stacey abrams saying she's thrilled to support kamala harris, susan rice calling her tenacious, trail blazing. i have been speaking to a lot of the organizers that have been pushing for kamala harris and so much of them remind us that a lot of this is about kamala harris, about her campaign, about her team, but also not to be underestimated, the organizing forces that went into really laying the ground work and demanding joe biden and his campaign consider not only a woman of color but a black woman. there are a lot of people today who are celebrating that effort and saying that effort as a model, should joe biden be elected, to continue to hold biden and kamala harris, should they win, accountable once they're in office. but brian, i also think that there are bigger lessons we have learned from watching this process play out. among them once you had biden out there saying he was absolutely going to choose a

woman, and that question was taken off the table, what revealed itself was how deep this democratic bench of women is, how much talent there is, the fact that they are ready, willing and able, and that for the first time they weren't doing what we've seen other candidates do before, where they demured and said i'll leave it to someone else. you have a lot of women, a lot of women of color making the case for why they were the best candidate. and that sends an incredible message to women across the country, to girls across this country, that you can show up for yourself, advocate for yourself, and at the end of the day, cross the finish line. >> well put. thank you for being part of our coverage and our rapid reaction force following the news. let's add one more name to the list, that is veteran author, presidential historian michael beschloss.

michael, with every day i have been following your social media. you have been putting out photos of vice presidential picks we have known and some cases loved, how other presidents, nominees handled the process. the great warning of modern time was the mcgovern, eagleton combination after the revelations, how short-lived that was, not even three weeks. your assessment of today's choice and go ahead and boldly predict how history may view today's choice. >> well, i think i had to predict that, brian, because i think our children and grandchildren will be talking about this and learning about this day for a long time. it is an historic day. look at all of the vice presidents in history. zero women. zero african-americans. zero asian americans. only one traditional practicing catholic, that's joe biden. this recognizes the glorious

diversity of america. in these times when we've got a president who treats immigrants with contempt, this is a nation of immigrants as john kennedy put it. she's the daughter of a jamaican immigrant and indian immigrant. what better symbol than that. this is a person whose entire career has been defending the rule of law. now she's the vice presidential nominee to be at a time the rule of law is under grave challenge by a president and attorney general. she's always been for limiting presidential power and we're in a time when a president has been trying to expand presidential power in dangerous ways. one other thing not as important is what i've said, brian, can you believe, this was going to make us feel old, she was born two weeks before, kamala harris was, two weeks before lyndon johnson was elected in 1964. even that has some poetry. as you and i have discussed, you

can hear it on the johnson tapes. 1968, hubert humphrey was dominated by the democrats. lbj called off humphrey, said i think you should choose at vice president daniel inua from hawaii. he thought about it, for 1968 said it was a bridge too far. look how far we've come. what a wonderful day. >> similarly, when he called lbj to say i'm going to choose ed muskie, there's an almost identifiable let down in johnson's energy as he took in the news, but asked hubert humphrey, if you talked to him, prayed on it, walked around, thought about it, if he's your choice, he's your choice. michael because we're in a visual medium looking at the books on your shelves, the coin of the historian's realm is mostly black and white

photographs. >> right. >> this changes the picture. >> it's just like barack obama would talk about in 2008. yes, if i'm elected, those place mats that kids have, my kids have these place mats, i bet yours have them, too, brian, with pictures of presidents in history, and barack obama said things like that will be different from now on. we'll look at this in a different way. this is long overdue. we're in 2020. 100 years ago was the year that women in america were guaranteed the right to vote. white women as it turns out because african-american women were kept from voting. it has been this long for this to happen. this is the way the system in my view is supposed to work. >> michael beschloss, thanks so much for having us in, being part of our team, our family reacting to this news. i am so happy that at the top of

the hour we have none other than our political director and host of "meet the press," chuck todd, who lives for days like this and stories like this. chuck, it's hard to know where to begin but let's just begin with the process. joe biden was able to do what some but not all campaigns were able to do in part because we're living in a pandemic, there were no leaks, no flight records, there were no witnesses saying i spotted her outside hotel x or in a car. this was a surprise until it wasn't. >> right. it was sort of a surprise in plain sight, right? if you go back to the start of this campaign when it seemed as if constantly kamala harris in some ways, her campaign would be dogged by would you be willing to be joe biden's running mate, that's a great line, i think he would make a great running mate

for me or something like that. you're right about that. and that in some ways frankly there's a part of me doesn't mind we didn't have to worry about the kabuki theater, hiding behind a garage post. didn't paul ryan sneak out of his house, go across a river or something, maybe getting rid of that kabuki theater. i could have listened to you and michael go on all day about lbj. one other historical point, it may have been made, i think not a lot of folks are making, to me, this is a reagan-bush parallel. you know, 1980 when reagan picked bush, there were conversations, geez, he's the guy used the most effective attack on reagan in the primaries, voodoo economics, yet it did unite the party and it was a time the republicans thought they saw political blood in the water, they saw a big opportunity, don't have an