good to talk to you this morning. kasie, by the way, will be joining "morning joe" in a moment. that's it for me this wednesday morning. i'm yasmin vossoughian. "morning joe" starts right now. >> how do you rate kamala harris as a vp? there's a rumor -- >> i think she would be a fine choice, kamala harris. she would be a fine choice. i thought she was the meanest, the most horrible, most disrespectful of anybody in the u.s. senate. >> first of all, for donald trump to call any politician mean, horrible, disrespectful -- >> what a meanie! >> it's hilarious. >> last month -- >> that's hilarious. but also, if she were -- i mean -- how do you go from being a good pick to being mean, horrible, and disrespectful? well, i guess you get picked by joe biden as your vice presidential selection. >> and he also contributed to her. we'll get to that. >> no, they like her a lot. >> they love her! >> the family. and this wasn't like back, i don't know, back in 2008, '09,

'10, whenever, when he was giving eight checks to hillary clinton or when donald trump was giving money to anthony weiner or donald trump was contributing to -- you just name it -- charlie rangel. go down the long list. but he actually gave in 2013 -- >> i think ivanka did, too. >> yeah, ivanka did, too like i said, the trumps are big fans. and they don't just say it with their words. they say it with checks that they write. >> they put their money where their mouth is. last month, president trump said she would be a fine choice. he's changing his mind this morning. good morning and welcome to "morning joe." >> it's very interesting. >> it is wednesday, august 12th. along with joe and me, we have white house reporter for the "associated press," jonathan lami lamire, nbc news capitol hill correspondent and host of "kasie dc," kasie hunt, host of msnbc's

"politi "politicsnation" and president of the national action network, reverend al sharpton, and nbc news and msnbc contributor shawna thomas is with us. so, after weeks of speculation, joe biden has announced senator kamala harris as his running mate for the 2020 presidential election. in texts and emails to campaign supporters shortly after 4:00 p.m. yesterday, biden broke the news, writing in part, "i've decided that kamala harris is the best person to help me take this fight to donald trump and mike pence and then to lead this nation starting in january of 2021." and shortly after that, he posted the announcement on twitter, calling harris a "fearless fighter for the little guy and one of the country's finest public servants." biden's announcement comes more than a year after he and harris, a former presidential rival, clashed over biden's record on race during the first democratic

debate. >> ooh. as will ferrell -- >> it was tough. >> -- would say, that was rough. that was rough. >> if elected, harris would become the nation's first black, first female, and first asian american vice president. her father is from india, her father. harris was a prosecutor, san francisco district attorney, and later, california attorney general. biden's campaign says the news of his vp pick ignited the biggest online fund-raising hour of his campaign. ironically, donald trump was also a financial supporter -- >> of course. >> -- as we mentioned, of kamala harris. >> a couple years ago, actually. >> yes! he contributed twice to her campaign. >> twice? >> not once, gut twice to her campaign for california -- >> he thought she was so nice, he contributed twice. >> well, he believed in her. >> yes, he did. >> he invested in her. >> would be a good pick, he said a couple weeks ago.

>> he did. giving $5,000 in 2011 and $1,000 in 2013. ivanka trump also invested in kamala harris, was one of her financial backers -- >> it's a family thing. >> i had her at the know your values san francisco event. >> yeah. >> the crowd went wild. >> they did. >> and she really connected with the women in the audience. extremely, not just likable, as they talk about as people cover campaigns and talk about temperament, but she cares about women's issues. she cares about equality deep within her soul, from her own experience. we've had a great time knowing her so far, and it's kind of exciting, this pick. and joe, you always have a saying in politics that really applies to the choice of kamala harris for vice president. what is it? >> stay out of the spotlight? no. no. the saying is, you know, i have a couple sayings. one of them is -- >> yes, you have a couple. >> just a couple. one of them always is, though, they never stop you when you go 90 miles an hour. that doesn't apply here as much

as what i always tell politicia politicians over the past 25 years, when they come up with a great idea, and it's this -- never sneak up on the press. do not try to surprise the press. let them know what's coming. you get no extra points in the long run -- >> none. >> -- for a big, exciting announcement. it usually blows up in your face. if you're going to select dan quayle, geraldine ferraro, or sarah palin as your vice presidential pick, what you do a month before is you say to somebody, hey, i'm thinking about picking dan quayle. i'm thinking about picking sarah palin. thinking about picking geraldine ferraro as my vice presidential pick. what do you think? and the media and the activists love drama. they love to be surprised. they love to say, who? who did he pick? who did she pick? no.

don't surprise. don't sneak up on the press. it never ends well. and i've been saying this when i was a politician, i say it now. what's so interesting about the kamala choice is that joe biden is getting the positive effect of a landmark choice. and a lot of people were saying before, well, kamala harris, that would be a boring pick because -- >> well, that's good, if that's true. >> -- everybody knows that, you know, she's a front-runner. there's no excitement. wrong. it's a landmark pick, regardless. and the best thing is, it was also the selection that made the most political sense, that was the most expected. and it will most likely generate an awful lot of support among contributors to joe biden's campaign and also among the black voters that saved joe

biden's campaign in south carolina and across the deep south earlier this year, and also the same black voters that didn't show up as much as expected during the 2016 campaign, which was really the difference between hillary clinton being president of the united states and donald trump being president of the united states. let's bring in reverend al sharpton. reverend al, what's your take on kamala's selection? what does it mean in 2020, especially at this time? and we have to also ask, does she move donald trump closer to leaving the white house, or does her selection somehow give him second life among those, quote, which the media would say, the angry white voters in wisconsin and michigan and pennsylvania and florida?

the press says that, not me. >> i think the choice of kamala harris is the wisest choice for joe biden and for right now where we are in politics in 2020, because she brings a perfect balance. we are dealing with a nation that is going to have to deal in this pandemic time with how regular people survive. she has a background of having grown up with a single mother and her sister. she knows the struggles, she knows what it is to live in a community that has problems with police but also problems with gun violence, and she was a prosecutor and dealt with that. so, she brings real life into this. she also, for those that consider ourselves progressive, she was the one that brought the race issue to joe biden during the debates, so we would feel she will bring to him the kind of advice that will not be

watered down as vice president, if they're successful. and when we get beyond the pandemic and we try to build this country out of a huge deficit, you need somebody in the room that understands what it is to know how to make ends meet and to know how it is not to be able to pay the bills. she would be in the room. she would be in the situation room when we're dealing with a global kind of politics. so, i think it is a good political choice. she will galvanize a vote that wasn't there, as mika said. she went to howard university, the akas and others, that have been marginalized. we keep talking about the marginalized like they're just the latte liberals. there are a lot of us that have never been excited that are excited about somebody that has had our experience, black and white, latino and asian, that have had to struggle in this country now being on the ticket. she'll bring that out. historically, i think it is great. i started as a teenager working for shirley chisholm's campaign

for president '72, i became 18, first year i could vote. shirley chisholm dreamed of being president and breaking that ceiling. in '84, when jesse jackson ran, he talked about a woman should be on the ticket. we got geraldine ferraro that year. he helped set that climate. and now, to be able to see a black woman on the ticket is historic, and it comes in a trajectory of people that came before her, and she will live up to those dreams. and i think she will make america better. i think donald trump, if he thinks this is good for him, the angry, white american voter that he thinks is there, is there, and they're angry at him for putting us in the pandemic. he's right about that anger. he's wrong about what they're angry about. >> all right, so -- >> that's correct. >> let's talk about kamala harris, though. and you brought up the debate, so let's talk about the fact that a lot of people thought she demagogued the race issue with joe biden.

seemed like she was calling for a return to bussing. she flip-flopped on medicare for all. she corrected herself during the campaign, but after a great launch, her campaign faltered and it never really took off. you've tukd kamala harris. you know her. is she someone who learned from those experiences? >> i think -- >> from those failures? >> i think she learned. i think she's very, very clear that she can make mistakes and correct them and she's not arrogant enough to be self-righteous. i also think she spoke from her heart at the debate. i was at the debate that night, about she was the girl that was the victim of bussing. but at the same time, she had to deal with a policy that would work. and that is what you want in someone that leads, someone that can go for what they believe in but correct themselves if they misstep. and we do not need someone like we have now in the white house, that they cannot admit a

mistake, even when someone shows a better way or a better point, and she's proven the maturity and the security to be able to do that. >> by the way, just let me just say this -- and i'll say this with you, rev, off the top, and if you have any corrections, you can tell me. but we're at the beginning of a process now where a black woman's going to be running for vice president of the united states. and i just said, did she learn from the mistakes that she made during the campaign? and there may be a temptation by some out there to tweet or to write or to say something about, oh, don't talk down to a woman, blah, blah. you know what? we're not going to engage, as jeb bush would say, in the soft bigotry of low expectations. we're going to treat kamala harris, a black woman, just like we're going to treat mike pence, a white man, just like we're going fog treat anybody white. and when she screws up, we're going to call her out, not because she's a black woman, but because she's running for vice president of the united states.

and can you speak to that, reverend al? first of all, i've got to say, yesterday was a landmark day. you had a black national candidate and i didn't hear one person talk about how she was, quote, articulate, which, poor barack obama had to hear about a thousand times during the 2008 campaign. oh, he's so articulate. and i'm sitting there looking at these people going, what are you talking about? i did not hear "articulate" once yesterday. so, we've moved past a certain landmark. but can you just talk about that? as we move through this campaign process, the best thing for kamala harris, the best thing for black women is that she is treated like everybody else and the woke latte liberals don't try to put a bubble around her, because that's going to do nobody any good, certainly not the democratic ticket. >> the most biased way that you can operate is to patronize us and act like we're really not qualified to be vice president,

so don't treat us like a real vice presidential candidate. kamala harris, who i know well, wants to be treated like anybody else that ran for vice president because she's tough enough, and she's shown that during the campaign. treat her as you would anyone else, as you would joe biden. don't forget, joe biden was one that said that he could understand when he was in the '08 primaries against barack obama. well, i can understand they're excited about an articulate, clean, black candidate like those of us that ran before obama were not clean and articulate, and he was challenged on that, and he grew. treat him -- treat her the same way. we beat up on joe biden. obama selected him anyway and ran with him and won. >> right. >> she wants to be treated that way. don't patronize us like we can't handle ourselves. kamala harris can handle any attack coming her way. i'm sure she's ready for it right now, probably up working out because she's tougher than

you would give her credit for. we're not looking for break. we're looking for equality. come on with it. whatever you've got, come on with it. >> exactly. exactly. kasie hunt, why don't you give our viewers insight into kamala? mika and i have been fortunate enough to know her. i've noticed personally -- i was very surprised personally, the first time i met her several years ago. she is very warm very engaging, has a winning smile, a great laugh, a wonderful conversationalist. she puts people around her at ease in person. but she was, i think early on especially -- i noticed like bob dole was always that way behind the scenes, but sometimes when bob dole got on tv, he could be a little more stiff, a little more strident. and i noticed with kamala, sometimes that winning

personality did not project itself onto the tv screen in certain circumstances. i think the 2016 campaign changed that a good bit. i think she learned a lot during that campaign, just like, you know, ronald reagan learned through his two campaigns that he lost. i'm wondering, though, about your interactions with her on the hill, your insights on who kamala harris is. >> yeah, presidential campaign is a crucible. there's no way around that. and i think that fact that she went through that crucible's a big part of why joe biden chose her. and i think you make a series of great points, and these are not about gender. this is about -- >> thank you, kasie. >> -- political talent. i agree with you, she is warm, she is -- she comes across in a room, and there are men, women, democrats, republicans who have this kind of talent -- you want to get to know her.

she pulls attention just naturally by the force of her personality. and when she came to washington -- and i've covered her since basically the day she arrived, because she arrived at the same time as donald trump in 2016-2017, and it was very clear from that very day that she was going to run for president. and her team was very careful, and i think she -- you saw this, i think, the learning curve playing out in real time, when she ran for president. and i saw a smaller version of that as she figured out the senate and how to build a national profile. it doesn't happen overnight. and when you come from california, where it's pretty far away from the east coast here and the decision-makers here, so she set up kind of private dinners with reporters where we had a chance to get to know her off the record. she had meetings with strategists. she laid all of that groundwork very carefully. and i remember when she first started in the hallways of the

senate, she wouldn't necessarily come up and talk to us. you know, we were always chasing her down the hallways. if you're somebody like her, with her kind of profile, you are likely to get chased by reporters. and she was pretty wary initially. but with time, she got more comfortable with it, and you could see her staff kind of helping her navigate that until she was comfortable with it. and i think you saw a similar trajectory play out on the judiciary committee, where she evolved into a very sharp, high-profile questioner of president trump's nominees. and that's a big part of how she built her profile. and my question, when she launched her presidential campaign, was always, did she have enough runway to learn that challenge in the same way that she had attacked the other challenges that i watched her go through? and i think we saw the answer, because she did make some mistakes. ultimately, her campaign didn't work out. but the presidential campaign is an incredible crucible, and i have no doubt based on my observations from before that

she has learned from that. and i think the biden team must be pretty confident that she certainly can stand up to the cleglites on the stage like mike pence, for example, and it's invaluable. there's really no other way to learn it except to run for president. it is the hardest thing to do in politics. and while she did not succeed, at least she's done it once. >> well, and again, you don't sneak up on the press. >> scrutiny. >> shawna, you don't sneak up on the press. she's been vetted. this morning, if you look at what the trump campaign has been saying about her over the past 12 hours or so, they don't really know how to attack her, other than saying she was too mean to joe biden during the democratic debate. i don't know that that's going to -- i don't know that that's going to be a winning argument. there are, of course, some on the left that are suggesting that she is too much of a tool

of the democratic establishment. there are people on the far right who are attacking her as well. one group actually for some bizarre reason, attacking her for being a, quote, cop, as if that won't help among swing voters. how do you look at this selection political ly and how o you look at it personally? >> i think on a personal level, from a very, like, taking a step back, there is something amazing about this that her selection is a result of black women and black people exerting the power they have in this country now. i looked back at the "washington post" opinion piece from seven black women who basically were like, joe biden has to choose a black woman. and that was, i think, written back in may.

but in some ways -- and maybe i shouldn't say this, but in some ways, joe biden got boxed in. he got boxed in by history. he got boxed in by historical choice. he got boxed in by black people saying, hey, by the way, we're here, we've got some power, and we have a couple of demands. and the fact that there are many people in this country at certain levels of politics who feel comfortable saying that, including jim clyburn, who basically was like, yeah, he probably needs to choose a black woman, is an example of how far we have come in this country but also an example of how much there are black people who are like, we need to go further, and you need someone in the room who understands some of these struggles to be able to go further. and so, i think -- >> for sure. >> -- the idea of kamala harris being chosen as the vice presidential candidate is clearly historic. and if i look at it from a personal standpoint, it's nice to be able to witness history, but also it shows that there is a bigger power base here than maybe people perceived, and that's pretty amazing, too.

i think speaking to your point about president trump and trump's campaign and how they're trying to define her, that's a part of politics. and we know -- i think we've talked multiple times on this show about how they've had a hard time defining biden. and some of that is because of covid-19 and people aren't really campaigning and all that other stuff. but this gives them an opportunity, much like it gives joe biden an opportunity to have this weekend of probably good press, it gives them an opportunity to figure out a new way to get at his campaign. so we're going to have to see how that plays out. but remember, as with everything, president trump, when i looked at that ad last night that the campaign put out, he is trying to define them for his base. he is trying to make sure his base shows up and votes and votes at at least the same levels of 2016. so, if he can scare them into thinking that kamala harris is a tool of the radical left and that joe biden isn't actually going to be president, maybe he

can rile people up enough to show up in droves for him, because that argument for people who had already decided to vote for joe biden, whether he picked kamala harris, elizabeth warren, you know, val demings, whoever, that's not going to work. it isn't about defining kamala harris for democrats and people who are going to vote for joe biden. it's about his base. so we'll have to see how that works out for them. but it's kind of nice to think of a black woman will be, or could be, at the table making some huge decisions that need to be made in this country. if they were to win. >> reverend al, i want to go to you, then we'll go to jonathan lamire. shawna brings up a fantastic point. you and i were discussing offline early on after south carolina and the deep south and after black voters got joe biden

the democratic nomination. we were talking about vice presidential picks, and you were telling me, and a lot of other leaders were saying, that joe biden promised to pick a woman. it didn't need to be a black woman, because early on people were demanding it was a black woman. it didn't need to be a black woman. it could be gretchen whitmer. it could be wisconsin's senator, tammy. but your attitude and the attitude of so many other leaders was, joe biden needs to win, donald trump needs to lose, whoever gets us there is fine. what's remarkable is, as shawna said, history boxed joe biden in. history boxed the democratic party in. after george floyd, it seemed

inevitable. after all the protests in the street, after this great reawakening, not just among black activists, but among white americans -- if you look at every poll. it was george floyd's tragic death. it was protests. against systemic racism, that moved joe biden and the biden team to the point where they needed not only to pick a woman, but to pick a black woman in this historic time. talk about that. >> that's absolutely right. i remember our conversations. i said publicly in april, and i met with joe biden and said that i think it would be certainly my preference for you to choose a black woman. but we cannot also look like we're putting a gun to your head. we want you to choose who is qualified, and we think black women are qualified.

and i've had them on "politicsnation" in may and said that, yes, i would like to see a black woman, but i want you to choose somebody that can win. clyburn came out right after that and said that, who i think is singularly responsible for turning biden's campaign around. and then i think, as stated, black women started coming out saying we want a black woman. but when george floyd happened, it was not just a matter of some preferences of those of us in the public space. it was a matter of the nation started dealing and reckoning with race and it made sense. if we're at this moment of reckoning with the racial inequities, the racial disparities, that we need to be able to put someone there that can address that gap, not as chokenism, but to make us understand how we govern through this period. we are in the middle of a real racial divide in this country, much of it brought to light by

this present occupant in the white house, and we need someone in the room that understands that, that has dealt with that at a level of governance which she has done, and will help us deal with this in a time of economic instability. so, it just makes sense. so, those of us that were advocating early, now it started making sense after george floyd, and we were knee deep, and still are, in the george floyd movement. we're marching august 28th in washington. but we need somebody that's in the room that can govern. and a lot of people that were on the list were excellent, qualified, but she brings particular skills for the time in which we're in. you can be good, but you must fit the times in which we're talking about, and these times need someone that understands race in america and that understands how you deal with both sides of it -- the gun violence that we're plagued with and the police problem that we're plagued with.

we need a balance, and i think that she's a balanced candidate. >> jonathan lamire, kamala harris is yet another part of joe biden's campaign that donald trump is going to have a hard time attacking. we talk about it all the time. he can't go after joe biden on china, effectively, because of all the times he's cowed down to president xi, the tweets talking about what an incredible job president xi did with the coronavirus and how transparent he was and how he thinks, america thanks president xi. it's hard for him to attack joe biden on mental acuity, because obviously, for every clip that joe biden has, having a hard time getting through a certain speech, you've got donald trump, of course, you know, comedy

central will have five minutes worth of clips of worse situations with donald trump or confusing world war i with world war ii, and it goes on and on. so, now we have a vice presidential selection that donald trump can't call radical, he can't call left wing and extreme, because he contributed -- well, he can, it just won't be effective. you just show the checks that he and his family gave to kamala harris just a couple of years before he was running for president of the united states as a republican. talk about that and also how you thi think, what you hear the trump campaign is going to do to try to attack kamala harris. >> well, joe, i was in the white house briefing room yesterday for the president when he appeared just an hour or two after the selection of senator harris was made public, and i was struck by, at least

initially, how sort of tepid and ineffective their first wave of attack lines were. the nickname for kamala harris appears to be phony. that's what appeared in both a tweet from the president and a campaign ad. that seems to be, at least for now, donald trump's nickname for her. also of note that he seems to have switched out sleepy joe for slow joe, in case those of you are keeping track at home. but much like with biden, he can't make the case that she -- harris -- is a part of the sort of radical left part of the democratic party, but rather, is under their control. he's trying, though. yesterday in the briefing room, not only did he claim that she was the nastiest senator, sort of a loaded woman when describing a woman, particularly a black woman, but she was the most liberal senator, which probably caused senator elizabeth warren and senator bernie sanders to look at the camera "office" style, in

confusion. then he also suggested that she would be, perhaps, the power behind the throne, and i think that's something we do need to hit on. this is an important choice. vice presidential choices often seem not to matter, but for this case, joe biden would be the oldest president inaugurated. there is an increased argument, and the biden camp was well aware that they needed to pick someone that could be indeed one heartbeat away, who could step in at a moment's notice, who also, if biden, indeed, who's described himself as a traditional candidate, only serves one term, would be well positioned to run herself in 2024. and senator harris is one who has that, who she was forged by the campaign. she has been tested by that. and also for biden, of course, you know, she does, hopefully, they think, electrify black voters. you know, he's been a little bit clumsy speaking about race of late. she gives him some assurance there, too. and we shouldn't overlook the fact of just what the historic nature of this pick, and i think there are a lot of young women out there of color who were probably pretty inspired today.

>> so, mika, i'm curious about your reaction to joe biden. your family is obviously known, your family father's known, your family, you all have known nixon, reagan, george h.w. bush. your father had extraordinary respect for all of those men and their foreign policy. also, of course, joe biden, who's been around since, obviously, the mid-1970s. so, you've gotten to know joe biden very well through the years. what are some of your first thoughts? >> my dad had a deep affection for joe biden. in fact, joe biden won the first brazinski prize at csis, the year my father passed. but i will say just from being with him over the years, knowing him, what i've seen and what i've heard and his wife, the pick is not just for now, not just to cater to different, you know, segments of the population

and voter blocs. he's looked at women as members of his team throughout his life -- equal members. dr. jill biden kept working when he was in the white house for vice president. she stayed working as a community college professor, under the radar. it was difficult, but she did it. and he respected that. i remember my brother became the ambassador to sweden. and before they left, he met with my brother, mark, in italia, and you and i were there. and he looked at natalia and said, these are equal partnerships, and i'm fighting for the spouses of ambassadors to get paid as well, because you all work. he sees the value of work, whether it's a man or a woman, and he's dedicated a lot of his efforts over the past decades to ward that. kasie hunt, i think kamala on many levels fits the bill because she has challenged him and she also has the chops.

and joe biden's, you know, man enough, if i can use the right term, to have a woman right by his side, equally able to do the job. >> and i think what you just said about joe biden underscores that joe biden is comfortable with women who remain ambitious. and to just follow up on what joe and i were talking about earlier and her warmth, i think we also shouldn't lose sight of the fact that she is ambitious. she hasn't shied away from being publicly ambitious, and as other women watch and as other women judge this man in the white house -- and polling shows they judge him extremely harshly -- this is someone, this is a pick where i think there are a lot of women out there who are saying, hey, i feel ambitious, i want to get out there. why is this a bad thing? and kamala harris, i think, has demonstrated over and over and over again that she can bring all of those qualities that joe outlined to the table without

being afraid to also stand up and say, yeah, i want this job, i deserve this job. and that's something that's kind of new for women in american politics, and i think that -- >> shouldn't be, but yeah. >> -- what you just said about joe biden helps explain why he's cool with that. >> yeah. great point, kasie. still ahead on "morning joe," we will go live to delaware, where biden will appear with his running mate for the first time today. plus, the president, oh, yeah, claims we're getting to the end of the coronavirus pandemic. >> oh, dear lord. >> he just keeps lying. >> he just -- he unfortunately -- >> out and out lying, and lying equals dying when it comes to this pandemic and trump. >> he's been delusional from the start when he said it was one person coming in from china and it was going to be gone. that was in january. and in february he said it was 15 people, it was going to soon be gone. in march he said it was going to magically disappear. in april, when things got warm, he said it was not going to come back in the fall.

well, it's never left, mika. and it's just staggering, the delusional thinking continues. and you are right, people die, and people continue to die. we're over 160,000 deaths right now in america, and he just won't face the reality and do what any other president, any of his other president seisors would have done. >> trump's lying means people dying. there's a record number of deaths in two states and warnings about a resurgence in the fall -- major warnings. you're watching "morning joe." we'll be right back. you're wchating "morning joe." we'll be right back. ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ the open road is open again. and wherever you're headed, choice hotels is there. book direct at choicehotels.com. ♪

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kamala harris ran for president by rushing to the radical left, embracing bernie's plan for socialized medicine, calling for trillions in new taxes, attacking joe biden for racist policies. voters rejected harris. they smartly spotted a phony. but not joe biden. he's not that smart. biden calls himself a transition candidate. he is handing over the reins to

kamala while they jointly embrace the radical left. slow joe and phony kamala, perfect together, wrong for america. >> ha! >> wow, that's -- >> that's funny. yeah. good luck with that. >> that's all they've got? that was a look at trump's campaign's opening line of attack. >> good luck with that. by the way, slow joe know the difference between world war i and world war ii. >> yeah. >> he knows what year the pandemic of 1918 was. >> slow joe knows -- >> slow joe knows that the pandemic of 1918 and 1919 didn't end world war ii. >> yep. yep. >> slow don thinks it did. strange, because we just passed the anniversary of hiroshima and nagasaki. i wonder what war donald trump thought that ended. hmm. anyway. >> any hao. >> it doesn't work. again, it doesn't work when you

have somebody who is as challenged behind a microphone as donald trump. that tack doesn't work. and when you have donald trump giving money to kamala harris and ivanka trump giving money to kamala harris, saying that she's a left-wing radical, it doesn't work. remember they tried that against barack obama in 2008. said he was the second most liberal member of congress and he was -- no, no. it's just -- just saying, that tact won't work. it might have worked on bernie. it might have worked on elizabeth warren, because their political personas fit more into that. >> yeah. >> kamala harris just doesn't. you can't attack her for being a tough prosecutor and then attack her for being a left-wing freak at the same time. >> makes sense. >> the messages kind of mix, and

they counterbalance each other. >> well, if you see the headline we just put up, she's so happy in the picture. she's probably just so grateful for all of the supporters that she has -- >> from the trump family. >> yes, donald trump himself and ivanka. >> yeah. it's nice. it's nice to be loved. >> got to be just so happy about that. >> isn't it nice? oh, the trumps are giving me money. they just keep writing me checks. it's very nice. >> yeah, i'm happy. >> i'm not going to spend their money. i'm not going to use their money, but it's nice. i can give it to a charity, which is exactly what kamala did. but it is nice to be loved, and they are loved, obviously, by the trumps. >> let's bring in nbc news correspondent mike memoli from wilmington, delaware. and mike, i guess there's going to be an event. i'm curious how this is actually physically going to play out. >> reporter: well, of course, the order of the day for the last several months has been social distancing. it's interesting, in fact, the last major public rally that joe

biden did before the pandemic essentially shut his campaign down in march was a large rally in michigan on the eve of the primary with kamala harris. and today we'll see the most significant moment of the campaign since that time, when he appears together with his running mate for the first time. and mika and joe, it's so interesting, i think, as we discuss this choice. we've been obsessing over this vice presidential selection process for the last several months, as has the political class, as have lawmakers, as has that noise factory that is twitter. but the message we're going to hear today is going to be the same consistent message that the biden campaign has been running on from day one, and that has been about the battle for the soul of america. one of the underappreciated aspects of the biden campaign, what they believe is one of their real formulas for success, has been their ability to look beyond the noise of twitter, to look beyond the pundits' everyone's speculation, and keep their focus on what sells what they call the biden coalition.

that's the voter not just in philadelphia, but also in bucks county/delaware county, not just in houston, but in the suburbs of dallas, in maricopa county as well as in milwaukee. and that's the message that we're going to continue to see. now, as far as the ultimate selection here, i covered a number of both kamala harris and joe biden events in the 2018 midterms, even before both these democrats entered the presidential race. i have heard endlessly kamala harris would be a great vice president for joe biden. this in some ways will look back as feeling like the obvious choice. that doesn't mean it was. for joe biden, to the extent that this was a political decision, of course, they believe that kamala harris is somebody who can help both rally their core base, african-american voters, but also play in those swing counties. but there was a vetting committee of four individuals who helped go through all of these backgrounds, all of the potential pros and cons. the final choice, of course, came down to the joe biden vetting committee, his head, his heart, an his gut. and in the end, i do think it

was a difficult decision for him. he really came to appreciate and see the strengths of a number of other candidates. but what was written on that note card that we saw famously a few weeks ago, not holding grudges, that was always true. and in the end, kamala harris was the natural choice for him. >> there was an amazing bench, so many incredible potential women who could have been chosen to be his running mates. nbc's mike memoli, thank you very, very much. and coming up, two women whose elections also made history, new york attorney general letitia james and chicago mayor lori lightfoot will be our guests. "morning joe" is coming right back. >> and when we come back, i'm going to talk to reverend al about what happened in seattle yesterday with the retirement of seattle's first black police chief. >> yeah. >> what's happening in new york city and how people are angry at these calls to defund the police. and it's not just white

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seattle police chief carmen best has announced she will step down in the wake of protests against police brutality. according to the "seattle times," she made the decision amid criticism over the police department's response and votes by the city council to shrink the police force and cut her wages. in a letter, she said she would officially be stepping down on september 2nd. news of best's resignation came just hours after the seattle city council voted to trim around $3 million from the budget, which could eliminate up to 100 officers. >> so reverend al, a couple stories on both coasts yesterday, one in "the new york times" about what's happening in new york city with cutting the

police budget, another one from the "seattle times" about the first black police chief in that city quitting after a city council with no black members on it, by the way, decided to cut 100 police officers from their -- and i took a couple of quotes out of "the new york times" story. new york black progressive politicians -- city councilwoman vanessa gibson said, "my constituents want to see cops in their community. they want to feel safe going to the store." there is another part of the story where black politicians in new york were concerned because the cuts to the budget was going to take police officers, safety officers, out of schools in high-crime areas. lori cumbo said, "defunding the

police is like colonization by white progressive." and the mayor from newark says the idea of defunding the police and cutting police officers is a baugea liberal scheme by white latte liberals. can you talk about this? it's really easy for these latte liberals, as you call them, to run around trying to make their statements, but what a lot of black politicians are saying in these cities, where you have a lot of white politicians talking about making a point on black lives matter by cutting police officers -- a lot of black politicians are saying, hey, we can do two things at once. we need the police officers. we'll even take more police officers to keep our schools safe and our grocery stores safe and our streets safe. you just need to aggressively reform policing at the same

time. talk about this split right now, rev. >> i look at the fact that we have seen those that have taken a movement for police accountability and police reform and have tried to hijack it into something else. the fact of the matter is that we are dealing with gun control, gun violence in our community as well as a question of policing. so, you do not remove police. you put the resources into things that will lead to better policing, like dealing with mental illness, like dealing with other issues that are the undercurrents in our community that causes the problem. but you have had those that have no identity with the communities, that don't live in any of the danger of the gun violence, that are now trying to put us in harm's way to fit some purist latte liberalism that they advocate.

i not only did the eulogy this year for george floyd, i did it for a 1-year-old kid killed by a stray bullet in brooklyn. the same two months i had to do it. and that is the problem that we are having in our community. those that are advocating removing safety from us, rather than saying we want to be safe from bad cops and bad citizens. and i think that it is clear that many of the progressive black politicians that you are citing and activists are standing up saying, wait a minute, we don't want to take orders from you either. we want a balanced policing in our community. we are not looking for better slave masters. we're looking for freedom. these people are talking to us like they're the new masters. we don't want to fund this. we don't want this in the neighborhood. neighborhoods they have nothing to do with, no identity with, and then they go out into the hamptons somewhere and read a lot of their progressive,

so-called progressive literature to each other while we are in the middle of these cities dealing with gun violence. we need police to be accountable. we need it to be transparent. we do not need them brutalizing us, but we also do not need our communities to be where there is, what we are seeing in many cases, guns put in our community where there is an inordinate amount of gun violence and homicides. we need balance. we do not need a new dictatorship from self-appointed people that call themselves progressive at the expense of our lives. >> who, as you said again, have no connection to the neighborhoods where they are tearing cops away from protecting people going to the store, protecting children walking to school, protecting children when they are in the school. it is absolute madness. and again, that's what you're starting to hear from black

politicians who are looking at these budgets and telling -- and again, i'm just quoting them -- telling these white bougua liberals, no need to look down on us and be paternalistic, no need for the colonization. just keep us safe and let's reform policing. it's that simple, mika. and still ahead, much more on joe biden's selection of kamala harris as his running mate, including the historic staffing decision that preceding the announcement. plus, a third poll this week that shows joe biden leading donald trump by six points in the swing state of wisconsin. we will dig into the latest numbers in just a moment. the ls numbers in just a moment today, we're facing a serious threat. we have to meet it as one country. numbers don't lie. infection rates are now going up in more states than they are going down. we've got to fight this together. wear a mask, keep your distance,

limit the size of crowds. it may be inconvenient and may be uncomfortable, but it's the right thing to do as an american. we need a president who will level with the american people, a president who will tell us the unvarnished truth, a president who will take responsibility instead of always blaming others, a president who will listen to the experts, follow the science, allow them to speak, a president who will lead and be an example for the nation. we have to do all we can to keep our fellow americans safe and healthy. i'm joe biden and i approve this message.

has the president or anyone at the white house ever asked or suggested that you open an investigation of anyone, yes or no, please, sir? >> um, the president or anybody

else. >> it seems you'd remember something like that and be able to tell us. >> yeah, but i'm trying to grapple with the word suggest. i mean, there have been discussions of matters out there that they have not asked me to open an investigation, but -- >> perhaps they've suggested? >> i don't know. i wouldn't say suggest -- >> hinted? >> i don't know. >> inferred? you don't know. okay. >> how to make the english language more difficult than it should be, by william barr. >> there you go. >> suggested means, children, if you're watching at home, it means suggested. >> yeah. >> someone suggested that you start an investigation of somebody. and by the way, though civics isn't taught in school as much as it should be anymore, the attorney general of the united states usually does not get requests from the white house to launch investigations.

that historically has been seen as a very bad thing. >> and that was senator kamala harris showing off her skills as a prosecutor when attorney general bill barr testified on capitol hill last year. welcome back to "morning joe." it is wednesday, august 12th. along with joe and me, we have msnbc national affairs analyst, co-host of showtime's "the circus" and executive editor of "the recount," john heilemann. politics and journalism professor at morgan state university, politics editor at "the grio" and an msnbc political contributor, jason johnson joins us. and editor at large for the non-profit newsroom, "the 19th," errin haines, as well as former u.s. senator, now an nbc news and msnbc political analyst, claire mccaskill. also with us, white house correspondent for "pbs news hour," yamiche alcindor. great group. after weeks of speculation, joe biden has announced senator kamala harris as his running

mate for the 2020 presidential election. in texts and emails to campaign supporters shortly after 4:00 p.m. yesterday, biden broke the news, writing in part, "i've decided that kamala harris is the best person to help me take this fight to donald trump and mike pence and then to lead this nation starting in january of 2021." shortly after that, he posted the announcement on twitter, calling harris a "fearless fighter for the little guy and one of the country's finest public servants." biden's announcement comes more than a year after he and harris, a former presidential rival, clashed over biden's record on race during the first democratic debate. if elected, kamala harris would be the nation's first female, first black, first asian american vice president, and she's the daughter of immigrants, her father from jamaica, her mother from india. she attended the historically black howard university. harris was a prosecutor, san

francisco district attorney, and later, california attorney general. biden's campaign says the news of his vp pick ignites the biggest online fund-raising hour of his campaign. ironically, donald trump was also a financial supporter of kamala harris. >> big fan. >> yeah, he liked her a lot. >> his whole family. >> gave her money. >> you see her smiling. she's saying, i'm getting money from everybody, the trumps, donald, ivanka. >> she's saying, thank you. >> thank you. 2014, 2013, yeah. >> trump contributed twice to her campaign for california attorney general, giving $5,000 in 2011 and $1,000 in 2013. >> so, he liked her so much, gave her money twice. >> and ivanka did, too! >> well, they're big fans. >> they like her a lot. they're big about money. they're all about the money and necessary ga they gave money to kamala's campai campaign. >> i always was told early on, when somebody gives you money, they're really bought in, not only to just your political campaign, but to you as a

person, so i'm sure that meant a lot to kamala, even though she refused to cash their checks. let's go to john heilemann. john, so, we've got about 2 1/2 months left in this presidential campaign. i'm curious, how do you think this shapes the campaign moving forward? also, are you surprised that joe biden ended up going after somebody who was especially tough on him, that his campaign even accused of demagoguery? >> reporter: right. hey, joe. not surprised. as you know, from the moment that joe biden secured the nomination until last week, every time i've been on this show, i've always thought that kamala harris was the front-runner from that, from the beginning all the way to the end. and i think kasie said earlier on the show that kind of the nature of this competition, i think, was to the extent there was a competition, was, would anybody displace her from that front-runner position? and in the end, they didn't. and i think, you know, when you think about vice presidential picks, and you and i have seen a lot of them -- many of them have

gone fine, some of them have gone wrong -- it always leads you back to the fundamental question, the fundamental political and substantive question, which is the same in this case, which is, are you picking someone who is ready to be president from day one and who's immediately perceived by the national media, by political elites, even by her opponents, as being qualified, from day one? if you pass that test, you're 90% of the way home. and i think, you know, one of the reasons why kamala harris was always in the front-runner position is she's so manifestly qualified, given her record as a district attorney in san francisco, as an attorney general of the biggest state in the country, as a senator from the biggest state in the country, as someone who ran for president in 2020. what are we not talking about this morning? what did republicans not talk about last night on television? they attacked her from a whole bunch of perspectives. they attacked her on her policies, on her ideology. what you did not hear was an attack on her qualifications, on her readiness, right? and that is where picks fall apart, where you get into

trouble, is by picking a sarah palin or a dan quayle. so, i think that was always her biggest strength. and then there is the second thing, right, which you noted yesterday. joe biden put in that very -- in the tweet that he put out -- it's a short tweet, but he cited the relationship that she had with beau biden, which, prior to this campaign, had made her sort of a member of the extended biden family. that's a big extended family. but they felt very close to kamala harris because of the relationship between beau biden and kamala harris. and i think that that always, again, gave her an advantage. and the only thing that they had to kind of work through emotionally speaking was the thing that we've all talked about now, what happened in that first debate in miami when she went after him on the bussing question. there were obviously some hard feelings. joe biden's hard feelings, jill biden's hard feelings, joe biden's sister, val biden-owens' hard feelings. but ultimately, they came to the place where they realized that

this was the right pick politically, the right pick for governing, and they were going to do the right thing for what would give him the best chance to win. and i think there's an extraordinarily high degree of comfort right now -- i'm down here in wilmington -- there is a high degree of comfort in biden world over that they've made the right pick, that this is the solid pick, it's the right pick. and the last thing i'll say is this. you know, the biggest thing for any vice presidential nominee is the do no harm question. and it became very clear in the last couple weeks that the biggest harm that the biden campaign could do itself, the biggest harm that joe biden could do himself was by not picking a black woman for this ticket, because the backlash would have been intense among black voters and black leaders, and that that would have led to days of bad coverage, maybe months of the question being asked. this was the pick that he was headed towards anyway, and it also checked that box, kept him out of the trouble that would have come if he had gone with a white candidate. >> yeah, and claire mccaskill, the vetting part of this is so

important. you have in kamala harris someone who vetted herself by agreeing to voluntarily put herself through the political gauntlet of running for president of the united states and actually having a strong start and then having a campaign that stumbled just about every step of the way. but through that process, she was vetted time and time again by newspapers, by media, by the 24/7 news cycle that churns political candidates up and spits political candidates out. so, she's been there. she didn't succeed, but she learned an awful lot, it seems, from being under those bright clege lights that those of us who never ran for president can never understand. >> yeah, make no mistake, joe,

kamala's been on a big stage for a long time. when you are an elected district attorney in a major city in america, you are constantly under pressure. every decision is a hard decision that's getting media attention. then, getting elected attorney general. i mean, she had almost 5,000 lawyers working for her, a budget of $750 million. she was on a very big stage in that job. and then, of course, running for the senate, a very competitive state to run for the senate from. and now running for president. and joe biden knows this, because joe biden ran for president. he knows how it vets you. he was in the exact same position kamala was, a disappointing campaign for president, then selected to be vice president. so, i think those similarities also worked in her favor. but you know, joe, look at the contrast here between donald trump and joe biden. can you imagine what donald trump would have done if a woman would have challenged him, gotten up in his grill publicly like kamala harris did?

he would find a name to call her. what does joe biden do? he's a strong man. he realizes that he needs people around him that will challenge him. he needs to have the best people surrounding him that aren't going to say, oh, yes, mr. president, aren't you perfect? this is the major contrast i see in these two tickets. one is a ticket with sycophants surrounding him, saying whatever he wants to hear. the other is a strong man who is willing to say, hey, she is tough, she's ready, come on in, let's get this done together. >> and that's a leader that you want. and again, i'm not just -- i'm not talking about this presidential campaign. vote for whomever you want to vote for. i'm just saying, whether you're talking about a football coach, whether you're talking about a preacher whether you're talking about a ceo, or whether you're talking about somebody that's running this country, you want

somebody that can have others around the table that can criticize them, that can correct them when they need to be corrected and that takes that input, and that's obviously something that donald trump famously does not allow. he does not -- he told us on this show back in 2015 that he's his own adviser. he doesn't listen to anybody else. he doesn't need to listen to anybody else. and we see the disaster that that's led over the past 3 1/2 years in foreign policy, whether you want to talk about the nightmare scenario that the next president's going to face with north korea and their expanded nuclear weapons program and extended missile system, or whether you're talking about the coronavirus with over 160,000 americans dead. >> right. >> hatch not listen to his doctors. he will not listen to epidemiologists. he will not listen to scientists. and mika, this reminds me a bit like 1980, when reagan loyalists

were concerned that george h.w. bush had been selected as reagan's vice president. bush had been harshly critical of ronald reagan, attacked him for voodoo economics. the campaign got personal. reagan rose above that, selected george h.w. bush as his vice president, and it made a great difference, not only for ronald reagan, but also for western civilization as the cold war came to an end and george h.w. bush was in the white house. here, you have another presidential candidate who selects as his vice president someone who is harshly critical of him in a primary process, and i think it speaks to the character of both of these people that they can now work together. >> well, it also speaks, i think, to their intellect. my father always surrounded himself with people who challenged him. he surrounded himself,

purposefully, socially and professionally, with people who disagreed with him. and he was always trying to figure out where that common ground was or understand what the other point of view was. i want to bring up another reason why kamala harris may just be the right choice for this time. how many days until the election? joe biden's in a very comfortable position in the polls. you can perhaps even get comfortable feeling like the mood of america is leaning toward -- against trump and toward biden, just because of all the people who are dying from his botched leadership in this pandemic. it's so impossible not to see that things are not going well right now. but put that aside, because with donald trump, there's always another way. he'll always find another way, and he doesn't care, as we've learned over the past few years, jason johnson, about the law. and kamala harris has been deeply immersed in the law and

all of the challenges to our laws, for decades. and serving as california's attorney general, district attorney, going to law -- i think she may be -- and also as a woman, i think she creates problems for the trump campaign. it's going to be difficult to attack her. she's going to be able to explain every step of the way how the law works every time the trump campaign or the trump presidency tries to push the boundaries of laws, or even what they're doing with the postal service. i think she may have the right voice for explaining where we came from and what our country is built on and why laws are in place. >> mika, i agree. she'll be a great part of the campaign. look, she's always been smart. she's always been able to explain what she's done and why, and that's going to be part of the campaign process. but i'm going to jump a little bit forward. i'm going to assume -- let's say

magically that joe biden wins the presidency and senator harris becomes vice president harris. what i think she would be best at, what i actually think makes her more qualified than some of the other people. someone, once biden takes office, is going to be tasked with going through this entire administration with a fine-tooth comb, and basically, expunging all of the trumpists, like getting rid of the baath party in iraq. like, somebody's got to go through and find all of these incompetent, incompetent, corrupt, white nationalist-supporting people that trump has burrowed into our state department, burrowed into our justice department. and i think senator harris would be fantastic at finding those people and removing them. because she'll have the skill set to not only get rid of the officials and the bureaucrats, she can help us impeach some of these judges, these underqualified judges that donald trump has managed to push in. so i think that's one of the things i think about, should she become vice president, she would be better at than any of the other top candidates that joe biden was looking at. >> for sure.

and i, again, i see this president just having a bad emotional reaction to the polls. and knowing him, as we have over the years, joe, as people in the white house have learned to deal with, he's very reactive. he doesn't have much of a wise mind. it's more of an emotion mind and it's a constant reaction with very little thought behind it. and this is going to be tough for him. >> that's interesting. he does not, we have found, time and again, yamiche, donald trump does not take attacks from women very well. he doesn't take attacks from anybody very well, but it seems especially personal when he is attacked by women, something that both you know, and you don't even attack donald trump. you just ask him fair questions as a reporter, but also something that mika certainly has noted. what's the white house tact on

kamala harris going to be? they've seemed to stumble out of the gates. donald trump doesn't quite exactly know how to attack a woman who he contributed to a year or two before he started running for president as a republican. what's their approach? what have you heard so far? >> reporter: well, the president, the white house, and the trump campaign have all been working together to attack senator harris in a deeply personal way. yesterday we saw the president call her nasty three times, call hermine, disrespectful, call her a liar, call her all of these things, while then going on to the policy. so, they were entering his attacks -- him in particular -- entering his attack on this fact that she's simply not a nice person and hasn't treated people nicely, including justice kavanaugh, who she fiercely questioned during the senate, something that i think is part of the reason why joe biden wants her to prosecute the case against president trump during this election. i think he is someone, the president, who is now looking at her policies and saying, also,

you should be really worried about her immigration policies, her fracking policies. he claimed yesterday that joe biden at one point was called racist by senator harris. that we know is not true. he also claimed that senator harris wanted to take away everyone's health care. this is something that i think is going to be an argument that's made partly in really, really angry and personal terms but also partly by using misleading statements. add to that the fact that you just mentioned at the top of the show that donald trump donated to her campaign. so, the campaign was asked about that yesterday. they said, well, why would president trump give thousands of dollars to then attorney general harris? and the answer was incredible. the answer from katrina pierson, a senior adviser on the trump 2020 campaign, she said, well, he was a private businessman and gave money to a lot of candidates. oh, by the way, she is a black woman, and as a result, we should stop talking about racism. so, i think there is an issue this campaign has to reckon with, and that is that she is someone who is going to be a

formidable opponent for vice president pence when it comes to those debates, but also, she's someone who has made her bones making sure that she was ready for this fight. you talked about her being the vetted. i sat down with her several times and she told me her mother, when she would come home and talk about a mishap at school, maybe other students could be coddled by her parents, her mom would say, what did you do? centering her power. saying you have a power to issue and a power to defend yourself. i think that's the kamala harris we're going to see in the next few weeks, someone who is ready to defend herself. >> that sounds all too familiar to me, mika, growing up. if i ever came home and talked about something -- >> complained. >> -- about what the teacher did. it was always, "what did you do, joey?" i can honestly say in all my years, my parents never took my side against a teacher, never took my side against a football coach, baseball, basketball coach. they said, well, whatever you did, go back and fix it. >> yeah, well, that's not what

kamala's mom was saying. >> no, no, but that's -- what did you do? no, that is. and by the way -- >> how you respond. >> it's actually, i think that's a good thing. so, anyway. so, let's talk, erinn, about this pick. and we certainly have talked about how the trump white house is going to approach this pick. what about progressives? i saw something that said, listen, five or six things -- five or six negative things about kamala harris, suggesting that she was not progressive enough and that she was merely a tool of the democratic and political establishment, a san francisco elite. not progressive enough. is that going to be a problem moving forward? >> well, i do think that while progressives are going to maybe have to get on board with now this vice presidential pick of kamala harris, you know, what

most of the democrats that i've talked to over the course of the primary and now headed into this general election, is that they are singularly focused on defeating donald trump, and that, over pretty much everything, is their priority. but you know, the other thing about having a ticket headed into the convention next week, you know, this ticket and the convention makes this general election fight more real for both sides, right? and so, i think that what you get from that is also the team kind of coming together. so you're going to see a lot of the surrogates for joe biden, including some progressives, saying, okay, it's time to get on board with this, it's time to move forward. that may help to bring along some progressives. but i have to tell you, i mean, the excitement that i saw erupting upon the announcement of kamala harris as vice president yesterday was really remarkable. i mean, you all mentioned the fund-raising that came in, record fund-raising for the biden campaign. i also saw that happening among

members of her sorority. i saw them posting on social media to give, amounts of $19.08, $190.08, $1,908, in memory of the year of the founding of her sorority in 1908. the historically black college community that's very excited with her being an alum of howard university. but you know, and so many of the black women who were calling for this pick of a black woman, but excited to see that it is senator harris in particular. and so, the combination of her qualifications and lived experience rising to the top and resulting in joe biden choosing her as his campaigning and potential governing partner is something that really seemed to electrify a lot of the base of the democratic party and will maybe create the kind of energy that joe biden is going to need to win in november. >> and you know, john heilemann,

back in 2016, after the presidential campaign, we kept hearing about white men abandoning the democratic party in wisconsin, in michigan, in pennsylvania, in florida, preponderance of white men abandoning the democratic party. later, people dug deeper into the polls and saw that turnout by black voters was the lowest it had been, went down for the first time in 20 years. so, let's talk about those two groups for a second. and give me your initial take on how this selection of kamala harris will impact joe biden and kamala harris' ticket among white men across the midwest, in wisconsin, michigan, pennsylvania, north carolina, as we go south, florida, arizona, and then talk about, obviously,

the other group that political scientists looked at more closely, and that is black voters that stayed away a little bit more, enough to elect donald trump in 2016. how does that shake out for both of those demographic groups that we're going to be looking at moving forward the next 2 1/2 months. >> reporter: right. so, joe, i think it's always helpful to keep in mind -- and part of the thing -- the framework for this discussion always is that, you know, this is part of why i talked about the do no harm standard with a running mate, right? in the end, we have 100 years of political science that tells you that people don't vote for the bottom of the ticket. people vote for the top of the ticket. and so, in the end, we know what this election is shaping up to be. it's shaping up to be right now -- and if joe biden has his way and continues to win, continues to have the dynamic that he wants to have in play, this will be a referendum on donald trump's leadership. if that is the framework for this election, biden is almost certain, or at least, if not

almost certain, is very likely to win the election. and that's going to be a lot of a vote about donald trump and to some extent whether joe biden is an acceptable alternative to donald trump. so i think the bottom of the ticket doesn't matter as much as a lot of people seem -- in these moments around the vice presidential selection, we focus a lot about this, but in the end, it doesn't have that big of an impact. it is important, though, in both categories, i think, joe, to think about it in this way. when it comes to white men, they are the bull work of the republican coalition, they are the strongest demographic for donald trump, it's always going to be white men. but you have to break that group down and there is an increasing cleavage between white men with college degrees and those without. it is the white noncollege men who have been the most stalwart behind trump and i think you will see an ugly, very divisive, predictably, not anything we don't expect from donald trump, but with a target now on an americ african-american woman, you will see an ugly, divisive campaign. we know donald trump's been

running on division. we know it's been rate-baiting, racist, so i think kamala harris will be in the crosshairs as they try to drive white, particularly white noncollege turnout in those battleground states, trying to use kamala harris as a focus of fear. so you're going to see that campaign play out. but i'll say on the other side, joe, to your other point, i think the main thing that biden has guaranteed here, if he had not put a black woman on this ticket -- as i said before -- that would have been courting the kind of problem hillary clinton had with a lot of black voters in places like milwaukee, in places like cleveland, places like detroit and philadelphia. this certainly energizes that constituency and makes black voters feel appreciated in the way that they wanted to feel appreciated, given how important they've been to joe biden being the democratic nominee. so, i think joe biden did a lot of good work for himself here on that front. obviously, black voters incredibly motivated to vote donald trump out. and by picking kamala harris, biden did not give them a reason to turn against him, and that's

super important politically as we head towards the fall. >> so, john, very quickly. you've campaigned. you've followed kamala harris on the campaign trail for quite a while. tell our viewers some things about her that they might not know. >> reporter: i think, you know, i've known her since she ran for district attorney, joe. so that was 2003. so, we've known each other now for 17 years. kind of amazing. i saw her run that race. i saw her run for the attorney general, the senate and the presidential campaign. so i've seen her for a long time. i think it's interesting to think of. she's obviously -- you've commented on the show already -- she's an incredibly warm, incredibly personable. she has an infectious laugh. she has those people skills, those retail skills that are enviable and that everybody wants to have as a presidential candidate, for sure. i think it's also -- it's easy to forget, because her campaign did not go well, it's easy to forget that first day when she had the best presidential

campaign launch of any democrat. you know, she had 20,000 people. and i was in that crowd in oakland when she announced in january of 2019 on mlk day. that's an electrifying presence on stage. >> yeah. >> reporter: and again, she obviously had problems with her campaign, but she has the capacity, if we ever get back to in-person campaigning between now and november -- and i don't know if we will -- but if we do, kamala harris is the kind of person who can draw big crowds, ignite a lot of enthusiasm, create a lot of energy on the campaign trail. again, i think this is a large question -- are we ever going to have those events again and crowds of those size? we probably won't, and i'm sure that frustrates the biden campaign, but she is great in a small room and great on a big stage. and those political performance skills, even in the age of covid, i think, are incredibly important. and obviously, we've talked a little bit about the vice presidential debate where i think she will be incredibly formidable. that's her big job between now and november, is to handle that debate, and i think she is pretty well positioned to do

that. >> seeing what you've seen. john heilemann, thank you so much. errin haines, thank you. and yamiche alcindor, thank you very much for all being on this morning. still ahead on "morning joe," kamala harris made history as the first woman to serve as attorney general of california. joining us next is the first woman elected to the same position in new york. that state's attorney general, letitia james, will be our guest. you're watching "morning joe." we'll be right back. atching "mo" we'll be right back. i like liberty mutual. they get that no two people are alike and customize your car insurance so you only pay for what you need. what do you think? i don't see it. only pay for what you need. ♪ liberty. liberty. liberty. liberty. ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ the open road is open again.

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[ laughter ] [ cheers and applause ] >> ah, it's a good one, liz. >> sounds like you're in a good mood tonight, senator harris. >> oh, i am! the fonz is back, baby! america's fun aunt. i'm also america's cool aunt, the ka -- you know what, let's not do that. tonight, i'm not going to worry about the polling numbers. i'm just going to have fun and

see if i can get some viral moments. mama needs a jiff. >> that was maya rudolph on "snl" doing her best impression of kamala harris, now vice presidential running mate to joe biden. joining us now, new york state's attorney general, letitia james. kamala had a similar job in california. claire mccaskill has the first question. we're going to have all of the prosecutors gather together here. claire, take it away. >> general, it's good to be with you this morning. i'm not sure that people realize the power the attorney general has to protect the little guy, to go after the biggest and most powerful interests in this country. i know that when kamala was a.g. in california, she took on big oil, she took on big banks. you recently have taken on one of the most powerful interests in our country. talk about the experience you

get when you have the ability to prioritize where you use your resources to protect the little guy in your state, similar to the experience that kamala has had. >> well, first, good morning, and thank you for having me. you know, it's an historic day, and i'm just really honored to be here. senator harris, obviously, is going to make history. she's made history before. and as the attorney general of the great state of california, she knows, like i know, that attorney generals are defending democracy, defending the values of americans. we're standing up each and every day for consumer rights, for women's rights, for environmental rights. we're standing up against the policies of this administration. and senator harris, obviously, was in the forefront of so many issues. and democratic attorney generals at this point in time have been the backbone of our democracy. and senator harris knows it

well. and so, attorneys general right now, we are defending the little guy. we're defending this country. we're defending the affordable care act. we're defending so many issues, which is why senator harris is so well positioned to be the vice president of these united states. i'm so excited to say that. she stands on the shoulders of countless numbers of women, particularly women of color, women who have been ignored for far too long. and now she takes her rightful place, and it's really just an honor and a privilege to know her and also to be a proud graduate of howard university as well. >> general, can you take a swipe at those out there that have a tendency to see women as too ambitious when they are in a position like you are in or a position that kamala now finds herself in or people who say, oh, they rub people the wrong way? can you talk about that path and

how you navigate those assumptions that, somehow, when a woman is ambitious, it's unseemly, but when a man is ambitious, yee, howdy, it's terrific? >> it's just sexist in nature. and the reality is, is that we've got to stand toe to toe with men each and every day. and it's really critically important that we really don't get caught up in ego. most women tend to check their egos at the door. we're all about rolling up our sleeves and getting to work and representing the interests of the little guy, standing up for the environment, standing up for women's rights, standing up for children, standing up for health care, standing, again, at a time when we find ourselves in this country more divided than ever, trying to bring us back together and united as one and recognizing our common interests. that's what we are all about. and so, if we tend to, you know, rub some individuals the wrong

way, they're just going to have to get over it. the reality is, is that senator harris will be the next vice president of these united states, and she's well positioned to be the next president of these united states on day one. >> jason johnson has the next question. jason? >> attorney general james, one, it's an honor to actually speak to you. i want to address something that is sort of an intercultural conversation. one of the main attacks from the far left and the far right on senator harris is this nasty, she's a black woman that threw black men in jail, right? despite the fact that senator harris has said that safety is a civil right and she was a progressive prosecutor. as an african-american woman who is an attorney general, what do you think is the best and most effective messaging to push against that false narrative? you are in a position where you are having to sort of prosecute the law and everything else like that. how do you make that argument and break against that myth? >> so, we're in the midst of a

historic moment. we're electing the first african-american black woman as the vice president of these united states. at a time when we are seeing racial turmoil each and every day, at a time when we are seeing individuals march peacefully all across this nation. and senator harris knows, like know, that we have a responsibility and duty to defend their right to peacefully protest, to defend the first amendment. and she will do that and she has done that. two, she has been in the forefront of discussions on issues related to the criminal justice. she's talked about bias training. she's talked about and she's implemented body cameras as the attorney general of the great state of california. she has talked about a wide range of issues as it relates to institutional racism throughout the criminal justice system. and so, we've got to talk about those issues, take them on, not be afraid of those issues.

and senator harris has done that as a former prosecutor, as the attorney general, and as the united states senator. let me also say that she is well versed in foreign policy, and she is someone who is fierce when it comes to questioning individuals. so, she has it all. she's the full package. and that's why she will make a great vice president of these united states, and i'm so happy that vice president biden chose senator harris. she's going to excite the base. the base is already excited. we're going to come out and vote. we're going to stand in formation. and we're going to elect vice president biden and senator harris as the next president and vice president respectively. >> all right, north korea attorney general letitia james, thank you very much for coming on the show this morning. and coming up, president trump claims, without evidence, that the united states is getting to the end of the

pandemic, even as several states hit new record daily coronavirus deaths. we're not talking about testing. we're talking about deaths, and we're making records. "morning joe" is back in a moment. records "morning joe" is back in a moment from prom dresses... ...to soccer practices... ...and new adventures. you hope the more you give the less they'll miss. but even if your teen was vaccinated against meningitis in the past... they may be missing vaccination for meningitis b.

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we're doing very well in everything, including corona, as you call it. but let me just tell you, we're getting to an end. and the vaccines are ready to rock. we're going to be very close to a vaccine. we're ready to distribute. and we're there for the therapeutics, which to me is even more important, frankly. it makes you better. it's more important than the vaccine. >> corona, as you call it. okay. you can call it that. it's a virus that's killing everybody. 160,000 or so dead, more to come, a surge expected in the fall. that's president trump claiming that we are getting to the end of the pandemic, despite a lack of evidence, zero evidence. the only evidence we have is

this -- florida added 276 new covid-19 deaths yesterday. this marks the highest number of deaths reported in a single day by the state since the pandemic began. people are still dying and the numbers are going up. the new record brings the death toll to over 8,600 since march. that's just florida, donald, your state where mar-a-lago is. i'm speaking slowly. we're not doing better. we're doing worse. it's not getting better. florida is one of the hardest hit states in the country. the daily new cases have appeared to decline in the recent days. however, some experts believe testing declined in part due to the hurricane that hit florida, which disrupted some of the state's covid-19 response effort. but you see, people are still

dying in florida, and those numbers are going up. in fact, they went so high, we've now reached a record in deaths, and that's bad. that means it's not getting better, it's getting worse, and the lies that you tell every day could actually lead to more deaths. if people listen to you, they would put bleach in their bodies. if people listen to you, they might go to school, even if they have vulnerabilities or they could bring it home and give it to their families. so, we need to figure out how to talk about the science here and get your lies out of the way. meanwhile, in georgia, a record 137 people died from the coronavirus yesterday. their highest single-day death toll since the start of the pandemic. surpassing the state's record from last week. it's been a week since georgia

reopened its public schools, and now a school district north of atlanta has ordered 925 students, teachers, and staff to self-quarantine after dozens tested positive for the coronavirus. cherokee county school district superintendent brian hightower said in a statement that there had been 59 positive covid-19 tests among students and staff since the august 3rd reopening. that's another lie that you tell. if we could just pause for a second. because the president says that young people just somehow, i don't know, they just don't get it. they're strong. they just get right through it. and actually, there are young people -- there are very young people, children, who have died from the coronavirus. and the stupidity of your statement is that they go to school where there are older people working at the schools, teaching them, and then those young people go home and bring

it to their families and kill people. the stupidity of the things that come out of your mouth are staggering, and it is leading to the death of many americans. on monday, governor of georgia, brian kemp, ruled out any directive requiring students to wear masks, leaving that decision, instead, to district superintendents. the cherokee schools, with more than 42,000 students, opted not to mandate masks. really? meanwhile, a new cdc study finds that black and hispanic children are at a higher risk of hospitalization from the coronavirus. hispanic children were hospitalized at a rate eight times higher than white children. the rate for black children is five times higher. you see, children get the coronavirus. what you're saying is not true. joining us now, former acting director of the cdc and

president and ceo of the robert wood johnson foundation, dr. richard besser. dr. besser, children can get the coronavirus and they can pass it to others. is that correct? >> yeah. you know, i'm >> you know what, i'm a pediatrician, i'm a parent and i take this very, very seriously. thankfully children in general do better with this than adults do. the hospital rate is much lower than for adults but one out of three children hospitalized needed intensive care. so it wasn't a mild illness for these children. as you were saying, children bring it home and children bring it home to people who may be at greater risk. you were showing the rates for hospitalization for black and latino children, black

americans, native americans hospitalized and dying at incredibly higher rates, much higher than white americans. when you see this number about children, is it because they're more likely to have a parent who is an essential worker, who is being exposed to people who aren't wearing masks. if we don't come together as a nation and protect each other, what we see going on now, what we've seen in the past with 5 million cases is going to predict the future, but it doesn't have to be. we have a chase here of what we want to do to try and mirror what's happening in so many european countries where they've been able to carefully slowly reopen society. but if we don't do it that way, then what you described in that georgia school where the school opened for a couple weeks but then there was a big outbreak, that's going to be the picture of education in america this fall. >> yeah. claire mccaskill, jump in. >> doctor, i am curious about

your take on what the president is currently doing as it relates to health care in this country. as you know, he is in the courts arguing specifically to do away with protection for preexisting conditions within our health care system. you know, this virus is creating millions of people that for the first time will are preexisting conditions. some of them children that will live with that the rest of their lives. can you talk about the impact that's going to occur in this country when the supreme court takes this case up, maybe after the election, but a lot of people looking at this case think that the whole aca is going to be blown to smithereens and what impact that will half on health ca -- have on health care in this country. >> we all have an interest in everyone in this country having access to high-quality,

comprehensive, affordable health care. when that doesn't happen, not only do the people who don't have that health care suffer and we've been seeing that, much higher rates of uninsurance and underinsurance of blacks and latinos in americans. we're seeing what happens as a result of delayed treatment and testing when they don't have access to care, they're not getting treated and it puts other people at risk. this is a time when states haven't expanded medicaid and there are 12 states that haven't expanded medicaid and they need to do that so peep have ople ha access. you have to look at that so we're providing more services. a pandemic like this will put incredible pressure on mental health services and needs. we know from data out of europe that there are a lot of people who get covid who following that

continue to have symptoms. it's going to be years before we really know the long-term consequenc consequences, but the idea of putting in changes around preexisting conditions should be a nonstarter. >> doctor, is this going away? what does the fall look like at the rate we're going in. >> this is a virus that is not going away. even in the summer where a lot of respiratory viruses go down, we're seeing increases in this country. when you hit the fall and the winter where people are spending more time indoors, we are going to see increased transmission. the other thing is in the winter as humidity goes down, viruses do better. they stay in the air longer so we'll see increased transmission. >> what does increased transmissions mean? we're looking at 160,000 dead

right now. what do you mean increased transmissions? >> well, you know, the future isn't determined. what we do really matters. if we keep doing what we're doing right now, we're going to see these numbers go up and up and up. if we send children into schools that aren't prepared, that haven't received federal dollars to hire staff for cleaning, for screens, if we're not protecting our teachers and the staff who work there, we're going to see schools become the focus for continued transmission within schools and no one wants to see that. children belong in school learning but it can only be done if it's done safely following the guidance of public health. that's not the road that we're on right now. >> dr. richard besser, thank you very, very much. still ahead, chicago mayor lore lore wi lori lightfoot will be our guest. and the first black woman will

serve in kamala harris's chief of staff. you'll see the moment when career stepped been harris and a guest who stormed the stage and grabbed the mic. she was like, no, you're not getting past me. "morning joe" is coming right back. joe" is coming right back ♪ ♪

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how do you rate kamala harris as a vp? >> i think she'll be a fine choice, kamala harris. a fine choice. >> i thought she was the meanest, the most horrible, most disrespectful of anybody in the u.s. senate. >> first of all, for donald trump to call any politician mean, horrible, disrespectful, that's hilarious.

but also, how do you go from being a good pick to being mean, horrible and disrespectful? i guess you get picked by joe biden as your vice presidential selection. >> they love her! >> this wasn't back in 2009, 2010 when he was giving eight checks to hillary clinton or he was giving money to anthony weiner or donald trump was contributing to -- you name it, charl charl charlie rangel, go down the long list. they actually gave in -- >> i think ivanka did, too. >> the trumps are really big fans. they don't just say itwords, they say it with checks. >> last month president donald

trump said she'd be a fine choice. he's changing his mind this morning. good morning and welcome to "morning joe." it is wednesday, august 12th. along with joe and me we have white house reporter jonathan lemire, nnbc newsreporter casey hunt, president of the national action network reverend al sharpton and shawna thomas is with us. after weeks of speculation joe biden has announced senator kamala harris as his running mate for the 2020 presidential election. in texts and emails to campaign supporters shortly after 4 p.m. yesterday, biden broke the news, writing in part, "i decided that kamala harris is the best person to help me take this fight to donald trump and mike pence and then to lead this nation starting in january 2021.

and shortly after that, he posed the announcement on twitter calling harris a, quote, fearless fighter for the little guy and one of the country's finest public servants. biden's announcement comes more than a year after he and harris, a former presidential rival, clashed over biden's record on race during the first democratic debate. it was tough. if elected, she would become the first female, first black and first asian-american vice president. she's the daughter of immigrants. her father from gentleman majam mother from india. she attended the famed howard attorney general and went on to become california's attorney general. biden said his announcement ignited the biggest fund-raising hour of his campaign.

donald trump was also a financial supporter of kamala harris -- >> a couple years ago actually. >> yes. he contributed twice, not once but twice to her campaign for california attorney general. he invested in her. >> would be a good pick he said a couple weeks. >> giving $5,000 in 2011 and $1,000 in 2013. ivanka trump also invested in kamala harris. >> it's a family thing. >> i had her at the know your value san francisco event and the crowd went wild. she really connected with the women in the office. not just likable. but she cares about women's issues. she cares about equality deep within her soul, from her own experience. we've had a great time knowing her so far and it's kind of exciting, this pick. and, joe, you always have a

saying in politics that really applies to the choice of kamala harris for vice president. what is it? >> the saying is, you know, i have a couple sayings. one of them -- >> yes, you have a couple. >> just a couple. one of them is they never stop you when you go 90 miles an hour. that doesn't apply as much as what i always tell politicians over the past 25 years when they come up with a great idea and it's this -- never sneak up on the press. do not try to surprise the press. let them know what's coming. you get no extra points in the long run for a big, exciting announcement. it usually blows up in your face. if you're going to select dan quayle, geraldine ferraro or sarah palin as your varieice presidential pick, a month

before you say, hey, i'm thinking about picking dan quayle, geraldine ferraro, what do you think? and the media, they love drama, they love surprise. they love saying who? who did he pick? no. don't sneak up on the press. it never end well. >> on issues like this. >> what's so interesting about the kamala choice is joe biden is getting the positive effect of a landmark choice, and a lot of people were saying before, kamala harris, that would be a boring pick because everybody knows that, you know, she's a front-runner, there's no excitement. wrong. it it's a landmark pick regardless and the best thing is it was

also the celebs thselection thae most political sense. that was the most expected. and will most likely generate an awful lot of support among contributors to joe biden's campaign and also among the black voters that saved joe biden's campaign in south carolina and across the deep southerlyier this year and also the same black voters that didn't show up as much as expected during the 2016 campaign, which was really the difference between hillary clinton being president of the united states and donald trump being president of the united states. let's bring the reverend al sharpton. reverend al, what's your take on kamala's selection? what does it mean in 2020, especially at this time? we have to also ask does she move donald trump closer to

leaving the white house or does her selection somehow give him a second life among those, quote, which the media would say the angry white voters in wisconsin and michigan and pennsylvania and florida? the press says that, not me. >> i think the choice of kamala harris is the wisest choice for joe biden and for right now where we are in politics in 2020. because she brings a perfect balance. we are dealing with a nation that is going to have to deal in this pandemic time with how regular people survive. she has a background of having grown up with a single mother and her sister, she knows the struggles, she knows what it is to live in a community that has problems with police but also problems with gun violence. she was a prosecutor and dealt

with that. so she brings real life into this. she also for those that consider ourselves progressive, she was the one that brought the race issue to joe biden during the debates so we would feel she will bring to him the kind of advice that it might be watered down as vice president if they're successful. and when we get beyond the pandemic and we try to build this country out of a huge deficit, you need somebody in the room that understands what it is to know how to make ends meet and to know how it is not to be able to pay the bills. she would be in the room. she would be in the situation room when we're dealing with a global kind of politics, so i think it is a good political choice. she will galvanize a vote that wasn't there. as mika said, she went to howard universities, the akas and others that have been marginalized. we keep talking about the marginalized like they're just the latte liberals.

there are a lot of us that have never been excited that are excited about somebody who have had our experience, black, white, latino and asian that have had to struggle not being on the ticket. she'll bring that out. historically i think it is great. i started as a teen-ager working for shirley chism's campaign for president, i became 18, the year i could vote. she dreamed of being president and breaking that ceiling. in '84 when jesse jackson ran, he talked about a woman should be on the ticket, he helped set that climate. now to be able to see a black woman on the ticket is historic and it comes in a trajectory of people that came before her and she will live up to those dreams and make america better. i think donald trump, if he thinks this is good for him, the angry white american voter that he thinks is there is there and they're angry at him for putting

us in the pandemic. he's right about the anger, he's wrong about what they're angry about. >> let's talk about kamala harris, though. you brought up the debate. let's talk about the fact that a lot of people thought she demagogued the race issue with joe biden. seemed like she was calling for a return to bussing, she flip flopped on medicare for all. she corrected herself during the campaign, but after a great launch, her campaign faltered and it never really took off. you've talked to kamala harris, you know her. is she someone who learned from those experiences, from those failures? >> i think she learned, i think she is -- she's very, very clear that she can make mistakes and correct it and she's not arrogant enough to be self-righteous. i also think she spoke from her heart in the debate. i was at the debate that night, about she was the girl that was a victim of bussing, but at the

same time she had to deal with a policy that would work. and that is what you want in someone that leads, someone that can go for what they believe in but correct themselves if they misstep and we do not need someone like we have now in the white house that cannot admit a mistake, even when someone shows a better way or better point, and she's proven security to be that. >> still ahead, we'll talk about what kamala harris learned about watching the campaign. back in a moment. campaign. back in a moment ♪ ♪ the open road is open again. and wherever you're headed, choice hotels is there.

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and voice solution at a great price. call or go online today. kasie hunt, why don't you give our viewers insight into kamala. mika and i have been fortunate

enough to know her. i was very surprised personally the first time i met her certainly years ago, she is very warm, very engaging, has a winning smile, a great laugh, a wonderful conversationalist. she puts people around her at ease in person. but she was i think early on especially, i noticed like bob dole was always that way behind the scenes but sometimes when bob dole got on tv, he could be a little more stiff, a little more strident. i noticed with kamala, sometimes that winning personality did not project itself on to the tv screen in certain circumstances. i think throughout -- i think the 2016 campaign changed that a good bit. i think she learned a lot during that campaign, just like ronald reagan learned through his two campaigns that he lost. i'm wondering, though, about your interactions with her on

the hill, your insights on who kamala harris is. >> a presidential campaign is a crucible, there's no way around that. the fact that she went through that crucible is a big part of why joe biden chose her. i think you make a series of great points. these are not about gender, it's about political talent. i agree with you, she is warm, she is -- she comes across in a room and there are men, women, democrats, republicans who have this kind of talent, you want to get to know her, she pulls attention just naturally by the force of her personality. and when she came to washington and i've covered her since basically the day she arrived because she arrived the same time as donald trump in 2016, 2017, and it was very clear from that re day that she was going to run for president. and her team was very careful and i think she -- you saw this,

i think, the learning curve playing out in realtime when she ran for president. and i saw a smaller version of that as she figured out the senate and how to build a national profile. it doesn't happen overnight, and when you come from california where it's pretty far away from the east coast here and the decision makers here, so she set up kind of private dinners with reporters where we had a chance to get to know her off the record, she had meetings with strategists. she laid all of that groundwork very carefully. when she first started in the hallway in the senate, she wouldn't necessarily come up and talk to us, we were always chasing her down the hallways. if you're like her with her profile, you're likely to get chased by reporters. she was wary initial lily but w time she got more comfortable with it. you saw her staff help her

navigate that and you saw a similar situation playout on the judiciary committee where she became a high-profile questioner of president donald trump's nominees. my question when she launched her presidential campaign was always did she have enough runway to learn that challenge in the same way that she had attacked the other challenges that i watched her go through. i think we saw the answer because she did make some mistakes. ultimately her campaign didn't work out, but the presidential campaign is an incredible crucible and i have no doubt based on my observations from before that she has learned from that. and i think the biden team must be pretty confident that she certainly can stand up to the klieg lights on the debate stage with mike pence, for example, and it's invaluable, there's literally no other way do it to run for president.

while she did not succeed, at least she's done it once. >> you next, we'll go to wilmington, delaware with joe biden and kamala harris will delivery marks later today. "morning joe" is back in a moment. joe" is back in a moment and can't wait until you are too. universal orlando resort. buy now and get two days free at the parks. restrictions apply. and they're actually pulling out the minerals from the enamel. i like to recommend pronamel to my patients. pronamel will help push the minerals back into the enamel, to keep the enamel strong. i know it works. and i hear nothing but great things from my patients that have switched to it. stand up to moderate to severe rheumatoid arthritis. and take. it. on... ...with rinvoq. rinvoq a once-daily pill... ...can dramatically improve symptoms... rinvoq helps tame pain,

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kamala harris ran for president by rushing to the radical left, embracing bernie's planmedicine, calling for trillions in new taxes. voters rejected harris, they smartly recognized a phony. but biden is handing over the reins to kamala harris while they turn to the radical left. slow joe and kamala harris, wrong for america. >> that was a look at trump's campaign's opening line. >> by the way, slow joe no. slow joe knows the difference between war war i and world war

ii. he knows what year the pandemic of 1918 was. he knows the pandemic of 1918 and 1919 didn't end world war ii. slow don thinks it did. strange because we just passed the anniversary of hiroshima and nagasaki. i wonder what war donald trump thought that ended. again, it doesn't work when you have somebody who is as challenged behind a microphone as donald trump. that tack doesn't work. and when you have donald trump and ivanka trump giving money to kamala harris saying she's a left wing radical, it doesn't work. they tied that against barack obama saying he was the second most liberal member of congress. no, no. just saying, that tact won't

work. it might have worked on bernie, it might have worked on elizabeth warren because their political personas fit more into that. kamala harris just doesn't. you can't attack her for being a tough prosecutor and then attack her for being a left-wing freak at the same time. the messages kind of mix and counterbalance each other. >> if you see that headline we just put up, she's so happy in the picture. she's probably just so grateful for all of supporters that she has. >> you mean the trump family? >> yes, donald trump himself and ivanka. she's got to be just so happy about it. >> oh, even the trumps are giving me money. they just keep writing me checks. that's very nice. >> yeah, i'm happy. >> i'm not going to spend their money, use their money but it's nice, i can give it to a

charity, which is exactly what kamala did. they are loved obviously by the trumps. >> let's bring in mike membeeli. i'm curious how this is going to play out. >> reporter: the order of the month has been public distancing. the last public appearance that joe biden did was a large rally in michigan on the eve of the primary with kamala harris. today we'll see the most significant moment of the campaign since that time when he appears together with his running mate for the first time. mika and joe, it's so interesting as i think we discuss this choice, we've been obsessing over this vice presidential selection process for the last several months, as has the political class, as has lawmakers, as has that noise

factory that is twitter. but the message we're going to hear today is going to be the same consistent message that the biden campaign has been running on since day one and that has been about the battle of the soul of america. one of the underappreciated aspects of the biden campaign, what they believe is one of their real formulas for success has been their ability to look beyond the noise of twitter and pundit speculation and keep their focus on what they call the biden coalition, not just in houston but in the suburbs of dallas, in maricopa county, as well as in milwaukee. and that's the message that we're going to ten continue to . as far as this ultimate selection, i covered a number of kamala harris and joe biden events. i have heard endlessly kamala harris would be a great vice president for joe biden.

this will some ways look back as feeling like it was the obvious choice. they believe kamala harris can help rally their core base of african-american voters but also play in those swing counties. but there was a vetting committee of four individuals who helped go through all these backgrounds, all the potential pros and cons. the final choice came down to the joe biden vetting committee, his head, his heart and his gut. in the end i do think it was a difficult decision for hillary clinton -- for him. but it was written on his note card, don't hold grudges and it's true and in the end he came up with kamala harris. >> coming up mayor lori lightfoot is praising kamala harris as pick for vice

president. she joins us next on "morning joe." s us next on "morning joe. ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ the open road is open again. and wherever you're headed, choice hotels is there. book direct at choicehotels.com. ♪

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zvl do you some -- solemnly swear that you will well and faithfully discharge the duties of the office you are about to enter? >> i do. really nice. joining us now the mayor of chicago, democrat lori lightfoot. let's start there. we have a lot to cover with you. but first, the choice of kamala harris to be joe biden's running mate, you know her. what's your gut about what she'll bring to the table? >> well, look, what i've heard and seen all over the country is a tremendous level of excitement. not only is she exciting the south asian community, the

indian community, the black community, but women i think also, an important demographic and really shoring that up and giving people hope. this has been a very, very difficult time for people all over the country, and we need something to rally around. and i think her addition to the ticket really gives people that threat of hope that we've all been looking for. the level of excitement and happiness, i'll just tell you, my 12-year-old daughter was beside herself with joy yesterday when she heard the news. >> i'm curious just following up in terms of her body of work, working as the attorney general for california, what we've seen when she was in washington during hearings, i personally think it's a good fit given that during this time, moment in history, the rule of law and our systems of government are really being challenged and that she

may really be able to communicate what's going wrong. >> well, look, she's a lawyer's lawyer. we've seen that on display over and over again in various committee hearings, certainly during the impeachment process and more recently in her questioning of attorney general barr. she is somebody who understands the importance of the rule of law, understands the importance of making sure that victims have a seat at the table and that they've got a real advocate in the prosecutor's office in civil courts. so i think she will be a beacon of hope for those of us who have been despairing about trump just completely abandoning the rule of law and really trying to subvert the courts, the prosecutors offices to bend to his will. we need to make sure that the rule of law stands for something in this country and kamala harris is absolutely the embodiment of that. >> jason johnson, jump in. >> mayor lightfoot, obviously with issues that have happened

in chicago, aren't unique to chicago, but issues with criminal justice, police brutality and violence are going to be some of the most important things voters will think about going into the fall. when you look at kamala harris's record what would you like to see her do and propose as a mayor that would help you when it comes to issues like criminal justice and police brutality that you wrestle with m your city. what would you want out of senator harris or vice president harris? >> i think first and foremost she understands the importance of supporting mayors and supporting cities. i've had numerous conferriversa with her and it's clear to me she gets it. these are difficult issues and it gives us an opportunity to right past wrongs and move forward but we've got do it in a way where we find common ground and we're unified in our approach. i think kamala harris understands that. obviously joe biden gets it. he spent a lot of time talking

to mayors, not just me but kiesha lance bottoms and really mayors across the country because he understands the importance of making sure that local voices have a seat at the table. it will be a welcome change from what we've been experiencing the last four years. >> claire mccaskill, next question. >> mayor, i know that you are struggling with the intersection of peaceful protests and angst in the community versus lawlessness. i think a lot of people have spent time talking about joe biden's legislative record and certainly it was no perfect in terms of him being able to see the consequences of some provisions in the crime bill, but people forget that in that crime bill was also support for drug courts and also support for community policing. can you talk about the resources needed for community policing and why that is so important when police officers are only

responding 911 calls and are not in the community the kind of erosion of trust that occurs and how we can turn this around in terms of resourcing community policing like we did in the 90s. >> community policing is at the core of everything we do regarding public safety. if the community doesn't have trust and faith that the police are on their side, the police can never be effective. their legitimacy is immediately suspect and undermined. so we are reimagining community policing here in chicago, and every single officer that has a front-facing role must engage in some act of community policing where they are reaching out with an open hand and an open mind and a heart to make sure our residents understand that they are there to serve and protect. but the other thing that is critically important and part of community policing is making sure that we have support for community-based organizations who are also out there on the

front lines. our street intervention workers, our community health care workers, all of those things where we're supporting and building healthy and vibrant communities, that's community policing, too. and we have to expand our vision and depth and funding for those kind of community-based efforts. and i know that vice president biden and kamala harris understand the necessity and the urgency of supporting those community-based efforts. >> mayor, the president has often used pretty interesting language when it describes to dealing with protesters and feds coming in and authorities coming in and cutting through them like butter. i mean, that in itself is problematic. i won't even ask you about that, but here he is talking yesterday about the violence in chicago. take a listen. >> together the city of chicago and the state of illinois have

25,000 police officers, sheriffs and guardsmen available to quell any violence. they can do it very quickly, very easily if allowed to do their jobs. all available federal requests to stop the violence and arrest the criminals, we have to be asked by the governors or the mayors and we'll be there very rapidly. >> so your response? will you be asking for help? >> you know, those are the words of somebody who doesn't understand the first thing about local policing, doesn't understand the first thing about building authentic relationships with members of the community. case in point is look at the disastrous efforts of the federal government under this administration in portland. it didn't help. it hurt. it exacerbated problems. i'm not letting that happen in my city. yes, of course we have our challenges but the thing this federal government is uniquely qualified to do is things like

pass common sense gun reform, make sure that everybody has background checks, stop the available of assault weapons. people that are on a no-fly list shouldn't be able to get weapons. the list goes on and on. the things that could really help cities to stop putting guns in hands of criminals, this president has shown an absolute abject unwillingness to even discuss, let alone move on. so i need a leader in washington, d.c. who is willing to take on the gun lobby and do what's right for our children in our cities. that's is not president donald trump. we need joe biden. >> chicago mayor lori lightfoot, thank you very much for being on the show this morning. >> thank you. >> up next, november is less than three months away and north carolina is one of the key states that will help determine which party controls the u.s. senate. we'll talk to former state

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>> oh, my god, i am so ready to go to work. i was raised to take action. my mother knew that she was raising two black daughters who would be treated differently because of how they looked. growing up, whenever i got upset about something, my mother would look me in the eye and ask, so what are you going to do about it? that's why when i saw a broken justice system, i became a lawyer to try and fix it. it's why during the foreclosure crisis i took on the big banks as california's attorney general. it's why as united states senator i have fought to represent people like my mother, people who politicians often overlook or don't take seriously. right now america needs action. in the middle of a pandemic, the president is trying to rip away health care, while small businesses close, he's given breaks to his wealthy donors and when the people cried out for support, he tear gassed them.

america is in crisis and i know joe biden will lead us out of it. he's a man of faith, decency and character. he raised his family that way. i saw it firsthand with my good friend beau. as joe says, we're in a battle for the soul of this nation, but together it's a battle we can win. we just have to take action. >> first of all, is the answer yes? >> the answer is absolutely yes, joe, and i am ready to work. i am ready to do this with you, for you. i'm just -- i'm just deeply honored and i'm very excited. >> that was a first look here at "morning joe" at a brand new add from the biden/harris campaign. from the presidential race to a hard-fought senate battle,

republican ibt thom tillis is trailing by eight points. and what are you up against now as you're beat tillis? it's looking good but how do you bring it over the finish line? >> mika, first of all, i'm grateful to be on this morning. thank you. it's an historic moment for america this morning. and we're excited here in north carolina as well. look, we can see polls today but we don't decide races by big margins like that in north carolina. we know we have a fight on our hands and a really pivotal seat. we're fighting for every vote and we'll continue to do that. and a change in washington come january next year. >> jason johnson, jump in.

>> so, mr. cunningham, i would love to ask you acc questions, but i'll go more political. you were in a race in a state that not only donald trump carried but where he has strong support in different pockets. how are you differentiating your campaign from a national message? what are you telling voters in north carolina that's like, look, trump is one issue, but this is what i'm going to bring to north carolina that tom tillis hasn't? how do you stake out that particular space? >> first of all, jason, you're making our alma mater proud at chapel hill and i'm grateful to see you on here. look, i've been very focused on north carolina. there's obviously a national campaign going on around us. my job as the senator for north carolina is to elevate the voices of the people of this state to make sure they're heard in the fights that are taking place in washington while joe biden and now the biden/harris

ticket enjoys a small lead in north carolina, as you see in those polls, i have a little bit more margin on tom tillis. that's because he's even distrusted by donald trump and republican supporters here. we hear day after day, in town hall meeting after town hall meeting that he's just not getting the job done norkt putting the interest of the north carolinians first. interest standing in the way of progress in washington and we're going to vote for change here this fall. >> a quick follow-up here, mr. cunningham. north carolina. i have family there. i know people there. it's one of the states that's trending in the wrong direction sometimes when it comes to coronavirus. some of that is because you have a lieutenant governor and sometimes a legislature that has

sued the governor when he has attempted to come up with great policies for wearing masks and controlling the virus. what's your plan as a senator who potentially be represented the state, what would you tell the governor that we should be doing to make sure that the coronavirus doesn't end north carolina's way of life but also respects the fact that we're dealing with a global pandemic? >> well, jason, first of all, our governor is listening to the public health experts and, frankly, he has a set of plans not just to combat the virus with the tools that he has available but also to work judiciously to get us through the economic turmoil associated with it. washington should take note. we need a national response to this, and it's clear that washington has fumbled this response. my opponent, tom tillis, of course, has been too weak to stand up to this administration and hold it accountable to make sure we're focused on the health care challenges to local

governments and state governments to support to get our schools open or educate our children safely. major priority after major priority, my opponent hasn't been part of the solution and washington has been fumbling the response. >> claire mccaskill? >> cal, it's good to visit with you. north carolina has a sweet spot in my part because of kay hagan. she served in the senate with a huge streak of independence. she was somebody who was not afraid to go against the party line. she is somebody who put north carolina first. i know that's what you're embracing in this campaign. i'm curious as to whether or not north carolinians are figuring out how tom tillis twists himself in a pretzel. i remember in 2015 when he wrote an op-ed criticizing the president's illegal use of

executive orders and pretty soon he was back in line, hiding under trump's desk and has yet to emerge since that time. talk about independence and why that is an important value for you in north carolina. >> well, claire, first of all, your words spoken at senator hagan's funeral were very touching poignant. she was a dear friend, she and chip. this was the seat she held. and, you're right, she did kt a very independent streak. north carolinians, hard-working people, common sense but a proudly independent people. and we expect the same from our senator. your example about what tom tillis did, important not just because he said his vote would be a matter of principle, and then he did what the fable observer called an olympic gold medal flip flop at the behest of

this administration. when the president started to round up money to send to the border to build that wall they defunded things in camp lejeune, north carolina, ft. bragg in north carolina. so north carolinians lost. even trump supporters distrust him. we're picking up support in unlikely places in north carolina. >> cal cunningham, thank you very much. we reached out to senator tillis' campaign and hope to have him on "morning joe" in the future. on the heels of joe biden's vp announcement of kamala harris, showing the former vice president holding a ten-point lead over president trump in the monmouth university poll biden is up 51% to the president's

41%. in the latest marquette poll, biden is 48 to 42% among registered voters in wisconsin. president trump leads in only one age group among voters below the age of 29. biden is up 24 points among voters age 30 to 44, biden is up 12. trump takes the age group of 49 to 59. 5 % to biden's 32%. biden is on top with voters over the age of 6052 to 41 within an 11-point margin. before we get final thoughts with jason johnson on this is that kamala harris is going to show joe biden's best attributes. she's going to make him look good. she already, right now, shows that he's man enough, strong enough, confident enough to bring on somebody as capable as

him with real skills, with real chops and who has challenged him. and i think that's a reflection of joe biden that is extremely positive. kamala harris, from my own personal experience, is very concerned about equality, women's issues. she spoke at one of my know your value events, and i think john haman made the point on the show today that she has unbelievable retail politic skills before she even walked in the room, the crowd went wild upon hearing her name. so, she's got that magnetism that often is very useful on a campaign trail when there's not a pandemic. jason johnson, your thoughts? >> i've got to say this. i am somebody who -- i've been critical of senator harris at various times in the past but her retail political skills are amazing. i mept met her in the green room and she charmed the heck out of

me. i always thought she was the best person for the job. i'm glad we say the best person of the job it is now also a woman. it used to be best person of the job of the men available. i think it's absolutely the smartest choice for joe biden to make. with these numbers, hillary had the same amount in august 2016 and lost. democrats can't rest on their laurels. you celebrate senator harris, but you still have to get out and vote. >> act now. claire mccaskill, we'll end on you. do you know what's cool? there were ten women who would have been great choices. the bench was amazing. we're in a new time. >> yeah. listen, i'm excited. we're all excited. it's a really strong ticket. i agree with jason. now is no time to think we've got this thing wrapped. now is the time to double down and work even harder. this guy is going to keep coming at us. >> he'll try and cheat. that's what he's working on right now, looking at those

polls. it looks like he's trying to bend the rules. we'll talk more about that tomorrow. that does it for us this morning. stephanie ruhle picks up the coverage right now. thanks, mika. hi, there, i'm stephanie ruhle. it's wednesday, august 12th and we start with a brand new addition to the democratic ticket, senator kamala harris. harris is officially the pick to be former vp joe biden's running mate. senator harris is an historic choice, the first black woman to run as vice president for a major party. she and former vp biden are set to appear together for the very first time later today in biden's hometown of wilmington, delaware. we've got reporters covering all the angles for us this morning, but we've got to start in wilmington where my colleague, mike memaly has been camped out for more than a week waiting for this news. what do we expect to hear from the two today, and where is the campaign going from