that is indeed our broadcast for this evening. with our thanks for spending some time with us, have a good weekend. on behalf of all my colleagues at the networks of nbc news, good night. she was a mother of five, with a double life. she lived her church lifestyle, and online dating lifestyle. talking about casual encounters. >> then, she was murdered. >> i'm appalled that she was found that way. >> somebody wanted to make a statement. >> what would her life be without her death? >> she'd have had communications with at least two other men. >> he asked me do you know who she was seeing? >> from the had shadshadows of internet and the depths of the human heart. >> he was controlling and he was losing control.

december 1,2011, one of those days that make teeth chatter. raw, damp, dismal, austin was ending his shift? deerpark, washington, half an hour north of spokane. his text message chirped. >> yeah, it's from logan. >> his younger sister at school. >> i remember she said, i'm cold come pick me up. >> but, where was their mother? wasn't she supposed to be there? austin looked around to collect his siblings as the cold gray afternoon darkened. >> i could not go to my mom's

house, because she was not answering the phone, and i did not have a key. so i took her to dad's phone. >> the kids called the cell, not afraid, more like irritated. >> polilease come home. >> it had happened by then, of course, as the children bedded down at this their father'ses house, they never guessed it. would not understand for days that everything about life is different now. but nothing made any sense the at all. >> unbelief. it was unbelief. >> a friend named summer stark put the words to it. so impossible that she of all people. >> it was hard to wrap your mind around that it had occurred. >> but apparently it was possible. shannon starbach, mother of five, dead, dead in a way that made skin crawl.

she had been so many things. mother. artist, woman on the brink of something new. >> shannon was funny. she was vivacious, she liked to joke around and have a good time. but classy, always very, very classy. >> her two older sons, austin and blake remember how she stood out even if it embarrassed them at time ps. >> she embroidered our names and numbers on all the baseball team and hats. >> we are the only team with the name and number on the back of our hats, you know. >> shannon tried to stitch her deep mormon faith in their lives. how was she with the kid? >> i would not hesitate saying she was a good mother. >> he was a boy from alaska when he laid eyes on her 20 years early. cold and hot worlds colliding. >> i told her i lived in alaska

and she thought she was lucky she'd not see me again. >> but she did. they married in months and settled in to alaska where lay worked on the pipeline. started a family right away. and there were issues. aren't their always? clay, was not as interested in church. not the way she was. she wanted you to be there. yeah, i could not, i couldn't meet her there. it is a big issue and i'm not sitting here saying i was right and it had to be my way and she was wrong. that's not an issue at all. we were different. >> they divorced in 2000, hot and cold, they lasted ten years that time. yes that time. full of hope and good will, they tried again in 2006 they remarri remarried. moved to washington state, set up a house in deerpark. and from there, clay commuted up to his job in alaska, which meant he to be gone, weeks at a time, so when he came home --

>> the kids and i were about playing catch, playing frisbee and basketball. >> having fun. >> yeah. so, it was not uncommon, i know shannon said it several times, made reference to me of being a disney land dad. in her eyes that, that probably was true because she was making dinners and taking care of the kids and trying to maintain the house. >> though it was up and down, good and bad. >> shannon and i never fully recovered. >> it was 2010 when they filed for divorce the second time. they decided to live apart but close to each other. the two oldest lived with him and the three youngest stayed with mom. and they saw their dad a lot. especial until the months of 2011, he was home on injury, his income reduced and able to share parenting like swapping days for

taking the kids to and from school. >> i would go over and pick up the kids and take them to school and sometimes she picked them up and took them back. it just worked on out. >> or at least it did until dismal afternoon, the day shannon failed to show up after school. mind you, they were not worried said clay, they all knew shannon started dating again. maybe she went out and lost track of time. a mix up. >> so, my thoughts were not that anything serious happened to her. it was -- >> you thought she was with a guy. >> i thought she was with a guy. i thought it just probably went late, they are having a good dinner. but the next day, one of the kids texted grand had mgrandma,. had she heard from their mother? she had not, and she said that

was alarming. >> i text shannon, and i never got anything back. and i called and i, her phone box was full and i knew something was wrong. >> she felt the panic rise in her throat. called shannon's sister, amy and brother stephen. >> she said it was very unlikely that shannon would not return her calls. >> because they spoke every day. >> they talked every single day. >> every day, 9:00. >> and they knew everything going on in each other's lives so mom continued to try to contact shannon, tried talking to the kids. finding out what was going on. >> klay called the cops. asked them to check shannon's house. >> it was december 2nd in the evening. you know, it's find her. >> sheriff's deputies went oifr a -- went over and had a good look around outside and left. but the family insisted something was wrong, had to be. and shannon's friend summer said

she'd never not pick up the kids at school and then ignore their calls. >> i knew that she doted on her kids. she loved them. >> it was saturday morning, before shannon's mother got through to the sheriff's ovrs and a deputy met shannon's landlord, got him to open up the house. two tep did is went inside and right away, radioed for back up. they had found shannon. she was dead. her body on her bed. and displayed in such a way the detectives knew her killer had more than just murder on his mind. coming up. >> i just backed up and i screamed no. no, it can't, it can't be true. >> the crime scene would raise more questions than an answer and so would a tip from someone close to shannon. >> he said look at her phone, and her computer, it will tell you what you need to know.

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♪ flashing lights, squad cars, violated the peaceful neighborhood in deerpark, washington. something big going down at shannon starbach's house. >> there's a bunch of crime scene tape and a bunch of detectives outside our house. >> when her son drove up the street where his mother lived he stopped cold. >> the awful news was beginning to spread beyond the now crowded street. when shannon's friend summer starks, all she could think of was the kids. >> do they know? do they know what happened? where are they? and i thought oh, know, they just lost their mother, they just lost their mom.

>> and thousands of miles away in florida, shannon's bother stephen heard it from the local sheriff and phoned his younger sister. >> so i called amy and told amy, you need to meet me at moms and she could tell something was wrong. andshe started crying immediately. so, i high-tailed it to moms. we walked in together and -- >> he broke the news. >> -- looked at mom and told the her she was gone. >> i just backed up and i screamed no, no! it can't, it can't be true. but she was. she was gone. >> the detention tech actidid - did not tell any of the ugly tails that shannon had been left naked on the bed and posed pornographically with a sex toy and before she took her last breath, the detective knew, she

was suffering. >> she was tortured and beat badly. >> why her when she was just starting over in life. after she had and clay called it quits the second time, she went back to school to become a dental assistant. >> she presented herself in a modest, family sort of kind of way. >> they looked up to her as a cross between a den mother and older sister. >> she is the epitome of what you expect to see in a dental assistant. i told her about her big beautiful teeth and smile, and laugh. i love it. >> very approachable. >> and busy as she was, said her school friends she seemed to have time for well, anyone who needed her. >> she was very strong. to be able to do that. because that is a very hard program and -- >> especially with children. >> yeah, with a family to tend to, and she was top of the

class. what she did do? graduate with honors or something? >> yes, she did. an excellent student with prospects of of her own. her ex, clay, said he was happy about that. >> we were looking forward to her achieving her independence. the whole family was. >> including you? >> absolutely. >> but here was the strange thing. it seemed to her friends that shannon was in some sort of crisis before her death. she was up beat one minute and distraut the next. >> she is not public. she didn't want her business known everywhere. >> good god, there's not many of people like that now days. >> we would come in and see her crying in her truck. >> was it her ex-husband or kids? or maybe a new man. there were one or two new men that is. >> and there were a couple of times i asked if she was dating or she showed me a picture of this one guy. you know, her friend that they

would chat. >> met them online said shannon. summer starks was the one who encouraged her to get out there. get dating again. >> i tried to set her had up, but didn't workout. but she, i said why don't you go date. just go out? >> nothing serious though. not yet. >> maybe she was finally having some fun. >> i thought it would have been great if she could have focused on a little portion of herself. and -- yeah. >> people, she deserved that. >> of course she did. and her love life would not have been anybody else's business. if it had not been for what happened. but now, detectives went dig engine to hidden places. people she saw in private. things she did did. she might not want the world to know. if there were secrets, and oh, there were. they were about to be exposed. >> coming up. one of those secrets was right here. on the dead woman's cell phone.

>> there was a text message to shannon asking her to pose in a specific way. >> the pose? it was one investigators had seen before at the crime scene. >> i'm appalled that she was found that way. you know. awful. and it's embarrassing for her. and i'm embarrassed for her. it makes me mad. >> when dateline continues. crafting our authentic fragrances begins with ingredients from the earth ... to create fragrances infused with natural essential oils. air wick scented oils. connect to nature.

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if there's such a thing as a fate worse then death. someone seemed to make sure that shannon met one. >> shannon starbach was there posed on her bed and in a way to bring disrespect to her. >> and though shannon starbach was well beyond being embarrassed, her friends and family were not. >> she had so much going for her for it to all end like that and the way it ended. just, she did not deserve is that at all. >> it was an ugly thing. >> yeah, and she did not deserve it whatsoever. >> i'm appalled that she was found that way, you know. it's awful and it's embarrassing 54 her and i'm like embarrassed for her. makes me mad. >> who could be so cruel? well, of course, it's the homicide detective's job to figure that out. >> could mean many things. could mean somebody close to her that was upset and angry with

her or it could mean somebody else. >> the investigation began the day that shannon's body was found and as luck would have it, among those just beyond the yellow police tape that night was a man that police surely would have looked up sooner or later. didn't have to, shannon's ex-husband clay was clearly looking for them. what was going on, he wanted to know? his ex-wife was missing, was she okay? >> he was asking to talk to the lead detective, he wanted some answers. >> first responders at the scene would not tell him anything about what was found inside the house. not even that shannon was dead. and an ex-husband after all is no longer next of kin. so clay went down to the sheriff's station where he met the detective. >> i said well come in, we need to have a chat. and his response was, well your jacket said major crimes, what is going on? nobody will tell me anything. >> the detective broke the news. shannon was gone.

waited for clay to collect himself and then -- >> i start by asking him simple things. give me a little bit of her history. on medication any enemies? and what i ask everybody in that situation is what do you think happened? >> he asked me do you know anybody that wants to harm her? do you know who she was seeing? do you know, you know, were you over there? when did you see her last? do you have any idea of these things? >> clay recalled telling the detective he knew his wife was dating again. in fact, he was pretty sure, he said that shannon had a profile on a website that caters on mormon singles. >> i said, well, last i knew there was a lds planet website. and i don't know, i don't have any idea who she is seeing, you would need to look or talk to somebody else. >> and they would talk to plenty of others. that was just day one of the

investigation. and as a logical step, the exwould have to be checked out throughly. but right then, he had no more for clay. i said we will talk later, take care of your kid. >> clay seemed eager to help. >> he said is, look at her phone and her computer, it will tell you what you need to know. >> of course, no detective worth his salt needed to be told that. her cell phone was in the bedroom, could not miss it said the detective. >> the phone was sitting on a table next to her bed. just a couple of feet away from had he had her body. >> like she had been using it or something. >> correct. >> i wanted to look at the cell phone right away, it would tell us who she may have been in contact with last. >> there was a text message from clay, from thursday morning telling shannon, he car trouble. asking her to take the kids to school. then later some exchanges about who would pick them up. not terribly interesting stuff.

except that was not all they found on shannon's phone. and the what else that was there was very interesting. she had communications with at least two other men. it appeared that she was planning on meeting with one or two of them. now, that got the detectives' attention. and then, it fairly jumped at them, a particular text a request, a very specific, very explicit one. >> there was a text message that was to shannon asking her to pose a specific way. >> the hair rose on ricket's neck. that was almost exactly the way the killer posed shannon's body. a coincidence? the detective had to think it was anything but. coming up: >> they were normal text messages. then there were, they moved in to more sexually suggestive text

messages. >> investigators took a hard rook at two men shannon seemed to have contact with the day of her murder. one guy posted a picture of himself. but, did -- >> we found that he actually stolen it from another person'ses website. a doctor who lived in north korea city. who was this mystery man and what was he hiding? >> when dateline continues. h. that's no good. so kate downloaded the goodrx app. now she can compare prescription prices, to find the best discounts. she even beats her insurance price. good for you kate, good for you. goodrx, stop paying too much for your prescriptions. download the free app today. original crown molding, walk in closets...

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hello, here's what is happening. the u.s. postal service is warning states that it may not be able to deliver ballots on time. mailboxes and mail sorting equipment were removed and in some cases destroyed. meanwhile, the national association of letter carries

backed biden after trump has not -- >> now, back be to "dateline." >> strange, the small things that can offer comfort, however cold in the midst of horror. once, long before her death, shannon told her mother how she wanted her funeral to be. morbid talk back then and now a blessing in the midst of so much grief. >> so mom was able to give shannon what she wanted for a funeral, if that was something you really want. her old classmates went to the funeral and brought along the candy they used to share cramming for tests. >> i felt silly because i brought kandi. >> nothing could sweet enthe

bitterness. nothing. >> the children were allowed to see her and i remember one of them saying, he was looking at her and he said, it doesn't look like mom. and i don't think he even recognized her. >> that's how badly she had been beaten. it made her family furious that somebody did that to her. so in the days that followed they seethed. quite unaware that investigators thought they had a break in the hunt for the killer. lead detective mike rickets. >> they were normal text message ins and they moved in to more sexually suggestive text messages. >> on the last day she was seen alive, shannon exchanged text messages with men she had apparently been seeing. rocketing to the top of the list. was the gentleman that sent her the text asking her to pose a

certain way and take a picture and send i want to him. >> it was alarming because the text mimicked somewhat what we found at the crime scene as far as shannon being posed. >> shannon, did not take or send a picture. but the request, that was not just a red flag to do investigators. that was a cannon shot. within a matter of hours the detective had that man on the phone. after all, his had number was right there in her cell. >> i told him who i was, and asked him if i could come speak with him and he stated yes. >> he was a car salesman from spokane named tom walker and in his recorded interview, he told them he nothing to hide. >> i texted her at 8:06, and i said, good morning, sexy. and she text me back 14 minutes later, and said, good morning handsome. >> walker admitted trying to

sext with her that morning but he denied that he was anywhere near her house. he said that he was at work and a funeral that day. >> were you at work all day thursday? >> actually, except for the funeral. >> except for the funeral. >> yes. >> did you have any involvement in her death? >> no. >> they took a dna sample he will and set up looking at the alibi. they were still not sure when shannon was killed. besides, they still had lots of other people to interview. that's what happens this is in -- that is what happens in a murder investigation. everyone gets pulled, especially those closest to the victim. they even called in the oldest son. >>. how was our relationship. >> austin lived with his father and said, yes, he was closer to his dad since they split up and if the question seemed cruel, well, the adult son had to be looked at, eliminated if

possible. >> does it feel weird to be put in a position of suspicion like that. >> he tried more leaning on me, like did you do it? did you do it? it was not like i know you did it. it was not like that. but, he made me stand up and i work at a glass company and cut glass, i had older cuts on my hands and he was like, where did you get that one from. >> and of course, they talked to the other men in the family. blake, then 18 and naturally the ex-husba ex-husband clay. what was he doing on december 1st, the day she likely died and went missing? >> he told me at that time that his had car had broken down on high desert drive in deerpark. >> clay said he spent the day fixing his car, and never saw shannon at all. so, who, if anyone, was shannon with that day? as detectives continued to dig, they found what might be an answer. right there in shannon's phone. a message from a different man, one named john wilson.

>> wilson seemed to be messaging shannon on her phone using another name. just wondering 06. >> it appeared from the communications that they were trying to meet, set up a date or they were going to meet on december 1st, 2011. >> the very day detectives believe that shannon was murdered. but when they traced that phone number from which this john wilson called, they found themselves looking at a public pay phone. but when they googled the name john wilson and just wondering 06, they found profiles on dating sigtes and facebook, and realized this man was not who he appeared to be. >> it was a pretty minimal site. >> a photograph pro porting to be this john wilson guy. >> correct. we found that he stole it from another person's website, a doctor who lived in new york city. >> now you know that john wilson is not the person you see on the

screen. >> correct. >> a phony picture. a phantom. who was clearly interested in keeping his had real identity a secret. but why? exactly who was this latest mystery man? >> coming up. he is completely stressed on out and worried about his personal life. his had professional life. >> how do you track down a guy determined to hide. >> he is doing everything of from public locations -- >> what does it all tell you? >> it caused us a lot of concern that certainly this could be our suspect. >> when detective would try his luck with an instant message. >> i said i need to talk with you about shannon starbach, and it was not 20 minutes my phone rang. when di --

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what is a 40 something single woman to do if she is looking for a little romance and who isn't? why not press a button, type in your name, see what happens. looked like that's just what shannon did. >> i said, get on online. and she said, i'm online, on a dating site. >> and it's not uncommon -- >> for this day and age to on online date. >> so i don't know why -- >> she'd not have put herself in

danger or harm's way whatsoever. >> you would not think. >> no. >> but in fact, that was something shannon's children did worry about. a lot. >> i'm sure you know dateline nbc, you know, and then to catch a predator, right? i have seen that, and it's for weirdos gone internet, we were afraid she was going to meet the one weirdo on the net. >> the sons were eager for investigators to find their mother's killer and detectives were in fact chasing down a new lead in connection with shannon's internet dating. >> if there's a murder investigation, there's no stone unturned. >> hiding under one particular rock was one very likely suspect. the man calling himself john wilson. who planned to meet with shannon on december 1st, the last day she was seen alive. detectives quickly figured out that he was some kind of an imposter, had posted a fake picture in his online dating profile and had been communicating with shannon from

locations clearly designed to hide his real identity. >> they were all public places. public phones. universities. places like that. >> boy, this guy has been careful. >> right, and he is doing everything from public locations. >> what does it all tell you? >> it caused you a lot of of concern. this could be our suspect. >> they traced one of the pay phones he used to call shannon, it was here outside of a university library. it happened to have a surveillance camera. >> was this john wilson? they sent him an instant message. >> identified myself as being from the sheriff's office and i said, i need to talk with you about shannon starbach, and i bet it was not 20 minutes my phone rang. >> it was him. all right. and yes, he told the detective he knew her, and yes, the two had been seeing each other. but, he -- >> he was was hesitating to

identify himself. i had asked him for his name, who it was that i was speaking to. >> sounded a bit shady to the investigator. distrustful. >> it was obvious that he didn't seem to believe that i was with the sheriff's office either. >> mike ricktes was listening in and scribbled a note. >> tell him that i need his identity shortly or i will post the picture all over the meade kbi can't a-- all over the media an i will find out who he was. >> he expressed the fact thaefs ha -- that he was having an affair. >> that was the excuse for skulking around. his name was john and he was a school teacher. he agreed to talk to the detectives in person, but asked to have the conversation with

the office of his lawyer. >> he is stressed out. he is completely worried about his life. his had personal life. his professional life. >> this, interview is done with your permission and your attorney's? >> yes. >> is, tell me if you can, how december 1st panned on out? >> december 1st. the last day shannon was seen alive. detectives, already knew that answer from messages, the man they were talking to had plans to meet her at the house. they wanted to see if he'd tell the truth. >> at 10:30, i was at her house, i knocked on the door. >> what he told us was that he made prior arrangements to meet with shannon. >> so he actually went to the house. >> he did go to her house. >> only, she never answered the door, he said. so then he went to a public phone to call, left a voice message. >> hey had, shannon, it's

john -- he even stopped by her house again. frustrated, looked through the windows didn't see anything, he said. and then he told detectives he spent the rest of the day and in to the evening exchanging messages with shannon. >> i texted her, um, and i got a text message in reply from her that said, did you come over, and she says, something to the affect of how about tonight or later tonight? >> and he really wanted to see her. >> right. >> but never did. on or at least he said he never did. >> right. >> there was however, a problem with his story. for much of december 1st, john kenline could not tell detectives if anybody had seen him. and in other words, nobody to really back up important portions of his alibi.

the lead detective did not know what to think. >> here's an individual that went to great lengths to hide his identity but at the same time here's an individual that is being as detailed as he possibly can in providing us as much information as he can. so i was on the fence but it was someone that we had to investigate. >> boy, did they ever. to see if the school teacher shannon's mystery man was telling the truth or trying to cover up a crime. detectives waded through all of his communications with her had. >> we didn't let the idea go that he could still be the killer. i don't remember the number of days but it was a week or two after the homicide that we even realized shannon had called 9-1-1. 9-1-1? spokane county share's detectives were about to stofr a new piece of evidence. it was a recording. erie and fleeting.

and it might just be enough to help solve a murder. >> coming up. the records that we get from the phone company reflect a 9-1-1 call. a break and a shock. >> 9-1-1. what are you reporting? hello? >> it hit me really hard, it was like a rock in my stomach. >> when dateline continues. with less eczema, you can show more skin. so roll up those sleeves. and help heal your skin from within with dupixent. dupixent is the first treatment of its kind that continuously treats moderate-to-severe eczema, or atopic dermatitis, even between flare ups. dupixent is a biologic, and not a cream or steroid. many people taking dupixent saw clear or almost clear skin, and, had significantly less itch. don't use if you're allergic to dupixent.

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there's nothing like a murder to put the most intimate parts of life on public display. investigators tracked down two suspicious men that she was dating. one was a married teacher. the other, sent her a racy text message that almost mimicked the crime scene. they offered alibis of course. but since the detectives did not

know exactly what shannon died, they could not check them out. funny. how one little break can make all the difference. >> it hit me. really hard. it was like a rock in my stomach. >> detective mike ricketts was not expecting it at all. that piece of evidence that suddenly surfaced weeks in to the case. his colleague had just gotten a record of the calls. dialed from shannon's phone. and there it was. staring back at him. >> the records that we get from the phone company reflect a 9-1-1 call. >> a 9-1-1 call? 9:17 a.m., december 1st, the 9-1-1 operator failed to properly file the call with the sheriff's department and you may not know this, but some cell phones don't store 9-1-1 calls in their call list, an effort to protect callers in dangerous situations like somebody been

kidnapped, say. so, all that, meant detectives trying to solve a murder had no idea that shannon called 9-1-1 until they got the records from her wireless carrier. were you able to find out what was in the 9-1-1 call, how long it lasted and when it came? >> yes, they were able to based on date and time, find a recording of the exact call. >> it was just 28 seconds long. it started with a noise. >> could you hear it? >> you could. and unfortunately for the 9-1-1 call operator, i believe he talked over it and he didn't hear it. >> 9-1-1 what are you reporting. >> so brief and garbeled, they became convinced this was shannon as she was being attacked. 9:17 a.m. >> 9-1-1, what are you reporting?

hello? >> what it sounded like if somebody was struggling over the phone. you could hear a female's voice, and that is about all it amounted to. >> but, who was the attacker? the car salesman? the teacher? or somebody else? now the investigators had to go back over the alibis and compare them to the 9-1-1 call. and at the started with the salesman. tom walker. >> were you at work all day thursday? >> except for the funeral. >> his phone never pings off any of the towers. he is at work on december 1st. he attends a funeral, we confirm that. >> the sales man, the guy who sent the racy request for a photo was in the clear. that left the school teacher. john kenline, he admitted that he was outside the deerpark house that morning. 10:30. but in the hour before that, when it appeared that shannon was being attacked, according to

the 9-1-1 call, he said that he was not at her house, he was in a starbucks getting coffee. a specific frapaccino, that the store had a record of selling. >> he ordered a specific and unusual drink? >> correct. that is the case. he purchased coffee at the same time that the 9-1-1 call had come in. it was just a little variation in time. but well within the timeframe that he could not have been at starbucks and he could not have been in deerpark at the same time. >> and so, the man who once looked so suspicious convinced detectives he was telling the truth. >> they looked at him every can which way you could be looked at. and they checked out every part of his story and fact, everything that he told them checked out 100%. now, he just had to do deal with his wife. and detectives?

they went back through the list of possible suspects. shannon's killer was still out there. a killer who judging from the story shannon's friends were telling, might have been building up to an attack. during the last six months of shannon's life, said summer starks. her friend was convinced somebody was out to get her. >> shannon's house was broke in to quite a few times and minor things would be missing. or the barbecue would be messed up or knocked over. lights would be unscrewed. you could tell someone was in, but things were not missing sometimes. just odd, odd things that you would notice just were not right when you would come home. >> shannon, filed police reports. the incidents were investigated. but never solved. shannon had been accusing clay. ? shannon thought clay was behind everything that was happening that he was either trying scare her or trying to assess a way in to her home.

>> but the police didn't find any evidence of that and clay said the idea was ridiculous. besides, he said, he was in alaska on at least one of the strange disturbances supposedly happened. >> at first, i was like, no way, i didn't do. that and then the date hits me and i'm like, for sure i didn't do that, i was not even, i was not even here. >> in fact, he said that he and shannon got along better than most divorced couples. >> shannon and i made things work. we would text or say, hey, i will get the i had ckids. i know next weekend is my weekend, can you take them that weekend? >> now that shannon was dead, detectives had to rethink their suspicions, and she is not the only one that viewed clay and shannon's relationship through something other than rose colored glasses. >> the reason for both divorces

the siblings claimed that it was clay cheating. and it was so nasty that clay stopped paying child support. >> we were paying rent and giving her money for food for her children. >> my mother was paying for school and computers. >> fascinating how the issues of a divorce can seem to change depending who is doing the looking. now, the detectives were. and they at least began to make that kind of progress that comes from dead ends. >> i was able to eliminate tom walker. i was able to eliminate john kenline. >> and so, one name they have not quite been able to cross off the list, seemed more and more important. >> clay starbach was never eliminated as the suspect. >> clay starbach, the ex-husbands and by now, they had something else to consider. a slew of unflatterly tid bits from shannon's family.

>> he was just constantly trying to belittle her and make her feel like she was inanimant. >> i always thought he was a creep. >> and the dental school classmates were eager to pass on a few of the stories shannon told them about clay. >> he was always bugging her, i guess, if you will. wondering what she was -- you know, what are you doing? or can you do this? or just trying to keep her -- >> tabs or something. >> shannon told them they said clay with not leave her alone, was some kind of a control freak. they didn't know him of course, never met him, but their opinion went from bad to worse when shannon came in to school visibly upset one day telling them that clay sent them a gift. a sex toy. >> it was in a gift bag, if you will, hanging on her door knob. >> with a note. >> with a note from clay. >> that said -- >> that said, here, enjoy. i can't have you so you can have this. or something like that.

>> he was very jealous. he was very controlling and he was losing control. >> coming up. he told me that he to go back and forth to his residence four times that day. >> a home surveillance camera provides a clue that reboots the the investigation. >> what did you think when you saw that? >> i thought that he was was lying. >> when dateline continues. crafting our authentic fragrances begins with ingredients from the earth ... to create fragrances infused with natural essential oils.

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>> reporter: before chanin scta it buck was murcered she told people her husband was controlling. >> i told her a drama queen and that's ridiculous. it only happens in the movies or

on "dateline," and she just said, you're just so full of it. >> reporter: but according to summer, chanin was scared, particularly after the windows were mysteriously shot out of the car parked in her driveway. chanin changed the locks in her house, didn't even give the kids a key, telling friends she was afraid clay would find a way to steal a copy. >> she was very vocal about her fear that he would kill her. >> reporter: hardly surprising those stories would tend to put a sinister spin on everything that police observed about clay, starting with that very first police interaction the day chanin's body was discovered. detective dressback thought something was off the minute clay arrived at the station and he told clay the news. >> and he goes, oh, my gosh, what happened to my wife. i said, well she's dead. and his knees buckled and everything became very histrionic crying and wailing,

and that was okay for a while. but it became ridiculous. >> reporter: ridiculous? >> it became ridiculous. >> reporter: even more ridiculous, more suspicious, said the detective, was when clay, told he was free to go, didn't. >> then i couldn't get rid of him. he would not leave me alone. >> reporter: kept wanting to talk. >> he kept wanting to talk. what he kept telling me was the same thing over again. look on her phone, look on her computer, that will tell you everything you need to know. >> reporter: so what do you do? it's suspicious to you, but it's not really evidence. >> no, not necessarily. it's suspicious, circumstantial, but suspicious to me. >> reporter: which meant that right there on day one clay needed to be checked out but good, and they began with his alibi for that december morning. remember, clay's day started with car trouble and his text to chanin as he heard her taking kids to school that mong. he said he spent much of december 1st walking between his

home and the spot the car broke down, about a mile away. >> he told me that he had to go back and forth to his residence four times that day to work on his car and get tools, to eat, to take a nap. >> reporter: what? detectives couldn't find anyone along that route who remembered seeing clay. and another odd thing, his cell phone was off for several hours, no pings to trace. but in the area clay said he walked, a little shoe leather produced a stroke of luck attached to a house. >> there was a camera on the side of the house. >> reporter: a home surveillance camera pointed in the very direction they remembered clay telling them he walked. and no sign of clay as far as they could tell. >> i mean, there's no indication that he ever passed by there that day. >> reporter: what did you think when you saw that? >> i thought that he was lying. >> reporter: one statement that looked like a lie, one dead cell phone, a complaint about overdue child support and a bunch of tales about alleged threatening behaviors, which, try as they might, they couldn't verify. the detectives didn't have

enough for an arrest let alone a murder charge. they needed something more, something to tie clay directly to the crime scene. and -- enter the dna. >> i believe it was january 24th, 2012, when i obtained the initial dna report. >> reporter: they had submitted several samples from chanin's body for dna testing. thought the most important thing would be from her neck where she was strangled and her fingernails as she fought off her attacker. some of the samples came back labeled "unknown male," which didn't match any of the known suspects, but some other of the dna material could be narrowed down to a very small pool of candidates. starbuck male. >> clay starbuck or austin starbuck or blake starbuck. >> reporter: there was no getting around it.

dna didn't lie, after all. detectives were now convinced that a starbuck male killed chanin. but which one? was it possible one of chanin's own sons killed her? not a chance, said detective rickets. >> we obtained records that indicated they were at work and at school. we eliminated them as suspects. >> reporter: only one man left standing now, but not for long. on february 6th, 2012, two months after they found the body of chanin starbuck, they arrested clay and charged him with murder. it was the moment chanin's siblings and mother had been waiting for. >> when clay was arrested, it was a big relief. >> we felt as though clay should have been arrested right off the bat. >> i knew that he was the one that murdered her. >> reporter: it was, of course, a victory for the detectives, too, but it came at a terrible price. >> i didn't want it to be clay starbuck. i didn't want to take those children's father from them. >> reporter: chanin and clay's five children, still in shock over their mother's death, now

had another blow to absorb. chanin's brother was especially worried about the three youngest in the family. >> that means they have no guardian then, so we all just decided that it would be best that we try to get custody of the kids and get them out of that situation. >> reporter: but the starbuck children weren't going anywhere. austin, just 21, filed to be the guardian for his younger siblings so they could all stay together and fight together for their dad. >> it's hard to grieve, you know, over our mother when we're fighting for our dad's innocence. >> reporter: yes, they said, their dad was innocent. and if that meant sacrificing their mother's good name to save their dad, so be it. coming up -- >> she went through a church

lifestyle, home lifestyle and online dating lifestyle. >> the things we confirmed on the laptop were not normal dating relationships. most can be confirmed they were only sexual in nature. >> chanin's private life was about to become have public. >> we can verify meeting with men electronically, most they met one-on-one. >> now a potential suspect. when "dateline" continues. s.

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at first the arrest of clay sparbuck for the murder of his wife chanin was playing out like a movie plot. seemed obvious to chanin's friends and families. >> we knew clay killed her, stalking her and causing her so

much grief. >> besides, you might be surprised to hear the starbuck children weren't buying any of it. so you believe that your dad is innocent? >> yes. >> reporter: there's no way he could have possibly done it? >> no. >> reporter: arguably the only witnesses with ringside seats to the running drama were their five kids. and those kids, every single one, including the three youngest, seth, marshall and logan, rallied to their father's defense. >> he didn't do it. he's a nice, caring, loving person. i mean, why would you kill your ex-wife and then -- >> that you still love -- >> and leave all your five children parentless? >> reporter: yes. so often what a family looks like depends on who's doing the looking. the kids?

all their lives they said it was their father who was the long suffering one, not their mother. in fact, they said their mother chanin was not always what she seemed to be. over the years, they said, she would up and leave, taking them with her, to live with other men. more than once. for months at a time. but they said their dad would always take her back. >> even through all this, he would always say he loved her. i remember just through this last divorce, he would say that, no matter what, he would forgive her and take her back. >> reporter: the older starbuck boys said it was patently obvious to them that the case against their dad was a frameup from start to finish. >> there's no physical evidence. there were a couple of times where i actually laughed out loud reading what they had said in there and how ridiculous the story is that they put together of what he did and how he did it. >> reporter: none of it, they said, beginning with the dna

evidence detectives found so incriminating, that male starbuck dna, in all likelihood, they said, came from one of them, austin or blake. but it couldn't have come from the youngest, marshall, who learned in the process that he was not clay's biological son, was conceived during a relationship chanin had after their first divorce. murder, as we say, exposes all kinds of secrets. >> the evidence they have is trace dna. it's like i go up to you and touch you on the hand. it's that small. >> reporter: but there is starbuck dna. >> yes. >> reporter: and there are some who have said, if it's not him, was it one of you guys. >> there's starbuck dna in the starbuck house. >> kind of funny how that worked. we all lived there. my dad lived there months before this happened. his hair everywhere, his sweat. >> the kids coming over back and forth from our house to her house. >> reporter: according to the starbuck children, their father

was essentially a victim of a kind of marital profiling. a suspect simply because husbands and ex-husbands of murder victims are always suspects. if not for that bias, they said, the investigators would have found the real murderer. >> the evidence is shoddy. >> reporter: and there's so many other possible suspects, they said. take this theory of blake's. not long after clay's arrest, there were news reports about a man named israel keys. he was arrested for murdering a young coffee barrista in alaska and later admitted he'd killed many more people, some in washington state. a serial killer whose family hailed from, of all places, a town just a few miles from chanin's house. well, why would you think it was israel keys? >> because he has killed over ten women. he admitted to four in washington. he was arrested a month about a month after my dad. so he wouldn't

have been on the radar until then. >> reporter: serial killer? maybe. but here's the biggest reason they don't believe their father is a murderer. it was the children's bombshell. their mother had been keeping a dangerous secret, they said, a secret life, one austin said he figured out when he was just 8. >> she lived a totally different lifestyle. she lived her church lifestyle, her home lifestyle and her online dating lifestyle. >> reporter: to hear the starbuck kids tell it, their mom known to most as a prim and proper mormon home maker lived a racy and risky personal life. a secret from even her closest friends and family but impossible to hide from them, the kids. >> it wasn't normal online dating. you know? it wasn't like she didn't meet some guy and be with him for three, four, five months to a year at a time. she was with them just for, you know, a short visit. you know, on to the next one. >> reporter: was it true?

sitting in jail awaiting trial, clay told his public defenders derek reed and jill gannon neagle, the same thing he said to sheriff's detectives. look at her phone. look at her computer. >> the things that we were able to find and confirm on the laptop were not normal dating relationships. it was sexual relationships. and most of those relationships can be confirmed that they were only sexual in nature. >> reporter: and explicitly so. >> explicitly so. >> reporter: with videos and photos and you name it. >> yes. >> reporter: all there on the laptop, evidence of trips to meet men she had connected with onli online, but did not know in person until she made them completely vulnerable to them, these strangers. >> several men. i don't think that we can even give a number of the amount at least e-mail addresses. >> reporter: 2, 3, 10 -- 15? >> 10 would be a minimum, i

would say. >> we tried to keep it as close to the incident as possible, and in november of 2011 -- >> reporter: the month leading up to her murder. >> -- we can verify ten men she was communicating with electronically, most of which she had met one-on-one, and we can verify that. >> reporter: every one of them a possible suspect. that's what clay's public defenders thought. well, investigators had run down leads from chanin's phone, the lawyers said. that crack team didn't follow up on any of the potential leads from her laptop. it was there. they had it, right? >> it was there. they swabbed it. at some point somebody suspected something, and i'm not quite sure why they didn't follow up. >> but isn't this all just a smoke screen? because the evidence is pretty clear that clay starbuck's alibi doesn't hold up and the ali buys of the other people do. >> the alibis of the ones they looked into.

>> reporter: so armed with the evidence they found on that computer alone, defense attorneys were confident they would instill in the jury at least reasonable doubt. as the day of the trial approached the starbuck children were giddy with the anticipation that soon dad would be coming home to stay. >> i know he didn't do it. we need to fight for our dad's innocence, get him out, so we can go back and hit it on the head again and find out who did it and solve it. coming up -- the jury hears a prediction once made about chanin. >> he said, i wouldn't be surprised if he find her dead with her throat. people used to care. heck, they'd come all the way out here just for a blurry photo of me. oh, that's a good one. wait, what's that? that's just the low-battery warning.

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here's what's happening. the u.s. postal service warning it pay not meet november mail-in deadlines for elections.

many look to vote so americans can vote safely amid the pandemic. and the justice department accusing yale university of racial discrimination against asian-american and white applicants. findings as a result of a two-year investigation. yale's called the doj's investigation "meritless." now back to "dateline." every trial for murder has this simple question at its core -- whose version of the truth will the jury believe? and in the case of chanin starbuck, the two competing realities set for display could not have stood in starker contrast. >> we'd been waiting over a year for this moment. >> as you can say i'm an a mission. i want him put away. >> reporter: the divided family couldn't have been farther apart

in the small spokane county courtroom when the trial began in may 2013. the prosecution set out to prove clay starbuck was a jealous, controlling and ultimately violent man who murdered his devout and long suffering ex-wife. while the defense prepared to argue that chanin herself recklessly courted danger and, quite possibly, died at the hands of one of the many strangers she met online for sex. to chanin starbucks' friends and family who heard in advance what the defense had planned, it sounded like an old fashioned smear campaign. >> that's all they had to go on. that's the only thing that they could turn chanin into was this awful person. >> she wasn't a sexual deviant. she wasn't -- she wasn't running around sleeping with everybody in deer park and spokane. >> reporter: the state presented its case first, argued in court by deputy prosecutor larry steinmetz, and he began

not with sex but with that other less titillating root of all evil -- money. the jury heard from summer starks that chanin didn't have any. >> with respect to miss starbuck's financial situation, how would you define that? >> dire. >> reporter: do you know whether or not miss starbuck had been receiving any child support or spousal maintenance from mr. starbuck during that time period? >> she had told me she did not. >> reporter: clay owed more than $9,000 in back child support. eliminate the ex and his financial obligations would die with her, thus a money motive said the prosecution. and then they brought "it" up -- sex. or rather chanin's love life, not the life that the defense had in mind but the romantic kind that sometimes produces jealousy, the other age-old motive for murder. >> miss starbuck now a single woman dating other men, much to the chagrin and dismay of the

defendant, clay starbuck. >> reporter: chanin's newfound romantic freedom enraged clay, said the prosecution. one of the couple's friends testified that clay seemed unnaturally obsessed with his ex-wife's personal life. >> he basically gave me a litany of things about chanin, about what she was doing and how she was seeing lots of other men. >> reporter: and one of the kids' teachers testified that she heard clay predict something that sounded to her quite chilling. >> he said, i wouldn't be surprised if we found her dead, i wouldn't be surprised if we found her with her throat slit open. >> reporter: then the view from the detectives who testified how it seemed to them clay was just a little too eager to direct their suspicions away from himself. and towards some anonymous online lover. >> i don't very often have people pushing at me a piece so

much that it pushes everything else, all the other information out. it was just constantly pushing that at me. >> reporter: jealous, resentful and on the morning of december 1st luring chanin out of her house with a phony story about a broken-down car. remember clay texted chanin, asked her to take the kids to school, then shut off his phone to avoid detection, or so said the prosecutor. a killer laying a trap. >> taking the children out of the house, entering the house, waiting for ms. starbuck to return. >> reporter: they played that snippet of a 911 call that the prosecution said confirmed the time of the attack. >> 911, what are you reporting? >> reporter: then an expert told the jury about the dna they found on chanin's neck. >> is this match that you described an exact match to clay starbuck and the male bloodline

of his family? >> yes. >> reporter: the dna had to be clay's. he was the one with the weak alibi. and detectives had already cleared his sons, though the prosecutor called them as witnesses anyway. >> during the school week, what time would you normally go to school? >> it was just after 9:00. >> on december 1 of 2011, did you work that day? it would have been a thursday? >> yes, i was. >> reporter: and someone else cleared by his alibi, john kenlein, the married teacher, was forced to appear, admitted being unfaithful with chanin. >> we engaged in a sexual relationship, yes. >> he was not here to be ashamed but to testify about curious messages he received from chanin's phone, messages sent long after the 911 call. >> again, sir, could you read that? >> did you stop by, question mark, question mark, question mark. do you want to come over

tonight? >> reporter: those messages found on chanin's phone, investigators believe, could only have been sent by chanin's killer, and by this time you believed she was dead? >> right. based on the 911 call, we believe she's deceased and yet someone is using her cell phone to communicate. >> reporter: and to prove it must have been clay who sent those messages, they entered into evidence this seemingly innocuous text message from around 3:00 p.m. that afternoon. >> at 3:06 p.m. chanin starbuck phone to logan starbuck phone, send marsh a note, dad will be there in ten minutes. >> reporter: send marsh a note? who besides his mother might know the nickname marsh? the youngest starbuck marshall came to the stand. >> how often would your dad call you marsh? >> a lot. he also called me son and marshall.

>> but he did call you marsh a lot? >> mm-hmm. >> reporter: yes, it had been an intimate act, an angry ex-husband killing the mother of his children, then staging the scene as a humiliating sex crime, premeditated murder said the state. and as evidence of clay starbuck's twisted state of mind, the prosecution offered this final piece to the puzzle. detectives said they found chanin's death certificate on a wall in clay's house pinned up like a trophy. >> as a reminder, she's no longer in my life, she's no longer going to cause me any misery or pain. >> reporter: so no smoking gun but a pile of circumstantial evidence deep enough, the prosecution hoped, to bury any chance of acquittal. >> at the heart of this killing -- and i would submit the motive -- greed, anger, obsession and jealousy.

>> reporter: and, through it all, clay and his defense waited to tell an entirely different story about a risky life and an unsolved murder. coming up-- unsolved, the defense would argue, because investigators blew it right from the start of the crime scene. >> they swab the face of the cell phone, they got dna. not his. the phone doesn't have mr. starbuck's dna. >> whose dna did it have? >> when "dateline" continues. >> when "dateline" continues. s. change a little, or a lot. nutrisse. nourished hair. better color. by garnier, naturally!

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clay starbuck, on trial for murdering his ex-wife, had something big in his corner, something he believed would establish reasonable doubt. chanin's laptop computer, it held evidence, he said, of his ex-wife's dangerous secret life. >> we're talking about casual encounters with people who aren't using real identities.

>> reporter: in fact, chanin's own children were convinced that one of those men must have been her killer. >> make no mistake, there were men that she talked to the day before. >> reporter: that was the story the defense and the children were poised to tell in court. and then a ruling from the judge. the evidence was inadmissible. the children's story, the activities revealed in the laptop, the evidence pointing to other men chanin knew intimately, it was all too speculative, too prejudicial. and it was out. the jury wouldn't hear it. suddenly at the defense table, the air went out. >> i think the court was thinking we don't want to make this a forum to run somebody who was murdered down. unfortunately, this isn't something that's just being made

up. we didn't create this, these allegations. >> reporter: clay starbuck's lawyers needed a plan b. so they went after the murder investigation itself. pointing out in court all the things investigators failed to do. >> on the right hand, they found on one of the nails what tested positive for blood. they don't test it. don't even look at it. in fact, you'll hear from the crime lab that they intentionally swabbed around the blood. >> reporter: it was a recurring theme for the defense -- they didn't test it. evidence collected but untouched by lab techs. and under cross-examination detective rickets was pilloried for making the decision. >> did you direct anyone to collect any piece of evidence from the master bathroom that would be consistent with that crime? >> no. >> as far as you know have you or have you directed anybody to have that? >> no. >> and if there was any potential trace evidence or any

evidence on that, we don't know? >> we don't. right. >> the crime lab didn't test it? >> right. >> reporter: but there were also issues with the evidence that was tested, said the defense. that cell phone, for instance, the one the prosecution went to great lengths to say clay used after killing chanin -- >> they swabbed the face of the cell phone and they got dna. >> and they got this dna and -- not his. unidentified male. the phone doesn't have mr. starbuck's dna on it. >> reporter: and more unidentified dna found on chanin's neck, where she was strangled. >> fair to say going back to the term "match," that there was another contributor on the sample referenced miss starbuck's neck male contributor that has not been identified? >> correct. >> reporter: whose dna was that, the defense asked? no one knows.

but the presence of male starbuck dna at the crime scene they said was no mystery at all. not only had clay lived in that house but the dna could have been transferred from children going back and forth between parents, as young marshall explained. and, again, only his audio could be shown not his face. do you ever share clothes with austin now? >> yes. if all my shirts are dirty or something i'll borrow one of his shirts. and i use also blake's old sweatshirt. >> reporter: the matter of the alibi. neighbors in the area where clay starbuck claimed his car broke down testified that they did see a car matching that description parked by the side of the road. >> i came up early in the morning to smoke a cigarette outside. i had seen it parked up the street. >> reporter: while austin told the court that the jury should not be suspicious about clay's phone being off that day.

>> why would he have it off? >> so he wouldn't be interrupted when he was sleeping because he had back surgery and he needed his sleep. >> reporter: yes, the back surgery. the reason clay was in deer park and not out working on the pipeline at the time of chanin's murder. clay was simply too weak, said his kids. didn't have the physical strength to kill their mother. >> so my mom, she's 5'10", 5'11", 180 pounds. that's not a small lady. she's not big, but she's not small. >> reporter: debilitating surgery? absolutely said clay's doctor. >> he would probably still be somewhat limited after surgery, yes. >> reporter: austin also addressed that so-called trophy the prosecution brought up, chanin's death certificate supposedly hanging on clay's wall. it was actually his, said austin. as executor of chanin's estate, he needed copies of the death certificate. and he wanted to keep one safe where it wouldn't be lost. >> and where did you put that? >> the master bedroom my dad stayed at in a closet we use for

a gun safe it was behind a key locked door handle. >> reporter: but the star defense witness? clay starbuck himself. >> mr. starbuck, you were married to ms. chanin starbuck at one time? >> yes. >> reporter: speaking in calm, deliberate tones, clay told the court his back surgery forced him out of work which is how he came to be more than $9,000 behind in child support and alimony. >> i couldn't do anything about it until i went back to work. that was my goal. >> reporter: money was no motive said the defense, and as for jealousy, not him. his talk about chanin's online dating had been misconstrued. >> why did you tell people about that information? >> concerned and to see if we could help her. >> reporter: some of the witnesses, especially the officers, testified that you had told them about the same sort of activity after the death of miss starbuck.

>> yes. and they were interested in anything that could help them with the investigation as well so that's why. >> reporter: on the stand clay starbuck patiently followed his lawyer's lead. no gaffes. no slipups. >> mr. starbuck, did you kill chanin starbuck? >> no, i did not. >> thank you, no further questions. >> reporter: when it was over clay and his defense team felt so confident they encouraged him to talk with us about the case and some things that did not come out in court. coming up, in an exclusive interview, clay starbucks claims why he believes he's about to go free. >> the case has been botched in your view. >> smart people that made elementary mistakes. >> when "dateline" continues.

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on the stand clay starbuck was one cool customer. taciturn and stoic when pressed by the prosecutor on cross-examination. >> are you a jealous person? >> not at all. >> do you ever get angry? >> not at all. >> ms. starbuck was granted 50% of your pension. did that make you angry? >> no. >> did it bother you? >> no. >> do you think that chanin starbuck's killer was trying to send a message? >> i don't know. >> but make no mistake, clay starbuck has plenty to say about his ex-wife chanin, about the detectives whom he believed ignored promising leads in order to hang her murder on him. >> they were after me. they had their guy. they didn't want anybody else. they wanted to drive me to

prosecution. >> for starters, clay starbuck told us in an interview given near the end of his trial, the case against him is based largely on a faulty understanding of the dna evidence. >> it was not considered a match of dna. it was not a 100% match, it was not a full inclusion nor could they exclude it. >> reporter: the starbuck dna found is actually a partial strand but can occur in nearly 1 in 3,000 males in the u.s., according to the state's crime lab, not nearly as accurate as standard dna testing yet that evidence, said clay, was blown out of proportion by investigators on a mission. >> mishandling. really, i can state a lot of things. >> reporter: the case has been botched. is botched a big word or is it okay in this case? >> i would concur. i would say botched is fair

game. there's some smart people that have made some elementary mistakes. >> reporter: but even if that was his dna at the scene, said clay, it proves nothing. he told us that not only had he slept in that bed for years, he'd been there since his breakup with chanin. >> i left june of 2010. was that the last time that chanin and i were intimate? no. not even close. >> reporter: really? >> absolutely. >> reporter: feelings, hopes of reconciliation perhaps? no, not that at all, said clay. he had moved on. >> at the time of chanin's death i was seeing a gal in valdez, alaska. it was a long distance relationship. >> reporter: you were otherwise engaged? >> i was otherwise engaged. >> reporter: and he disputed all the nasty stories chanin supposedly told her friends about him, wondered why detectives would listen to what he considered to be gossip. she was terrified of you and she told her friends this.

and so when she winds up dead and humiliated that way, who else are they going to look at but the person she was terrified of? >> chanin's friends that you mentioned, if they make those comments, i don't control those comments. i have no way of knowing what chanin told them, but i would hope that they would follow the evidence. i would hope that they wouldn't chase somebody down over a comment made off the cuff. >> reporter: and those were secondhand stories about clay the jury never heard anyway. as for his alibi that morning in the surveillance video, appeared to destroy it, it was nothing, said clay. of course the camera didn't show him on that street, he never told the cops that's where he walked and they never asked. they didn't ask you where you went. >> no. >> reporter: they say you told them. >> i did hear that. >> reporter: what? are you saying

their memories are bad? or something, that they're lying or what? >> there have been many statements in this that have not been true from law enforcement's standpoint. >> reporter: and speaking of alibi, clay said he doesn't believe the time of that 911 call means anything at all. >> it is so short, you can't tell what it is. >> reporter: but a call to 911, she winds up dead, they kind of go together. so the time of death makes most sense right around that time. just after because she would have been under attack at that point. >> i don't see how with any of the evidence that's been provided in statements by witnesses that anybody can make that assumption that a 911 call at a quarter after 9:00 and her death were exactly related. >> reporter: for more than two hours as he talked to us clay starbuck remained unflappable, quite determinedly so. i can see why you would be quite a hard guy to argue with. >> i'm an easy guy to argue with because i don't argue. >> reporter: that's the problem. makes me crazy. >> it doesn't make me crazy. >> reporter: no, the other person crazy.

>> then i suggest you get counseling. >> reporter: never angry, never jealous, the only emotion clay starbuck pleads guilty to is disappointment. he was disappointed, he said, when his youngest daughter told him about some explicit images she had seen on her mother's computer. pretty upsetting for you? >> it was disappointing. i wouldn't say upsetting. >> reporter: now, according to clay starbuck, murder never crossed his mind. >> she was a beautiful woman, smart woman. she didn't need to travel those paths to find men to be with. it was senseless. >> reporter: and did you try to stop that behavior by killing her? >> absolutely not. absolutely not. i wouldn't kill her. i wouldn't harm her. i wouldn't kick, bite, scratch anything her. i've never done anything to hurt her. and i didn't kill her. >> reporter: he faulted once, only once.

the question was about his children. what did you want to say to them all these months? >> you're going to end up making me get emotional. so i'll just leave it that i'm just very proud of them. >> reporter: pretty tough thing for kids to handle. >> it is. it is. not only did they lose their mother, they lost their dad for a period of time. >> reporter: maybe forever. >> it's not going to be forever. it's going to be till next week. >> reporter: clay starbuck was, he said, a confident man, quite sure that acquittal was just days away. all he needed now, he said, was to hear the jury say those words -- "not guilty." coming up -- >> never see a courtroom again. >> i was sick to my stomach. i was nervous. knowing what i know and in my heart i know clay did this. >> in the matter state of washington versus mr. clay d. starbuck, verdict formed -- the verdict and the

emotional fallout. >> i jumped up and i screamed. i screamed. >> when "dateline" continues.

for more than two weeks here in spokane, washington, discussions about the murder case sounded a little like political debates these days, polarized. and as the judge sent the jury out to deliberate -- >> you'll now be escorted back to the jury deliberation room. >> chanin's two families, her mother and siblings who believed clay poisoned the children against their mother on one side of the great divide. >> i hope that they learn the truth. >> and those very children on the other wanting nothing more than to have their father come home. >> after this is kun, i hope to never see a courtroom again. >> but of course it was only those 12 strangers who could decide. the hours went by. people close to the question on both sides were in some kind of

agony. >> i was sick to my stomach, ip was nervous. knowing in my heart, i know clay did this. all it takes is one person, one person not to believe and we have to start all over again. >> not easy for any of them. but austin had an especially difficult task. a new father himself and now after fighting with his uncle and grandmother over custody he was guardian of the three younger children. and until this moment he had been like a rock. funny how these things sneak up on a person. >> if you could speak to your dad and just say one thing the two of you, what would it be? >> see you soon. yeah. >> sorry about that.

>> and then, then they were all in court, their opposing wishes on full display. the jury was back. >> has the jury reached a verdict? out of one full day, here was their decision. >> the matter of state of washington versus mr. clay starbuck verdict form a count one reads, we the jury find the defendant mr. starbuck guilty of the crime of premeditated murder in the first degree. >> guilty. his face looked like stone. but something else going on inside said his lawyers. how was he when that verdict happened? >> shocked. >> he actually thought he was going to be acquitted. >> absolutely. >> but chanin's mother and siblings finally felt vindicated. all along they believed it was him, and now a jury agreed. >> as soon as that first guilty verdict was read, it was like a

ton of bricks were lifted off of us. >> and got the text, guilty. i jumped up and i screamed. i screamed. i was like, yes, yes! >> clay starbuck was sentenced to life in prison. we figured he'd file an appeal. all five starbuck kids said they still believe their dad was innocent, led by austin, head of the household, weight of the world on his shoulders. >> it's not over yet. >> but he was convicted. >> yeah, but there's still appeals and still other things we can do. >> that may be so. >> it's still not over. >> two years later in 2015, clay starbuck lost his appeal. >> i thought it would bring me more peace. it didn't bring me the peace i thought it would. >> justice. sometimes what feels like justice to some doesn't to

others, not at all. but this we can say -- once there was a fine and lovely woman whose life was good and useful who loved her children. >> they were her world, and no matter what had happened what was said, what's deserve the way her life ended on that cold december morning in deer park, washington. i'm cage melvin. >> and i'm natalie morales. >> and this is "dateline." >> he had already told me the guys were flying up from florida. the black ops. at that point, it got a little scary. they're here to do a job, and they're going to kill someone. this is crazy. >> in a marriage, three is a crowd. >> you're seeing another woman. >> right. >> what do you think it was? >> chemistry. >> and chemistry can be explosive. >>