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now during the chevy open road sales event, get up to 15% of msrp cash back on select 2020 models. that's over fifty-seven hundred dollars cash back on this equinox. it's time to find new roads, again. good morning. it is saturday, august 22nd. we are 73 days out from the 2020 election and the sitting president is ramping up his efforts at voter suppression by both by mail and in person. a trump appointee offered testimony on friday under oath before a senate panel virtually comes following a firestorm of allegations that he was the engineered of a plot to slow down mail delivery leading up to the election. under growing pressure from democrats this week, dejoy has apparently changed his plans. >> there will be no post office closures or suspensions before november 3rd. >> when i found out about it and

it had the reaction that we did, i've suspended that till after the election. we moved 700 -- 700 post -- collection boxes. i decided to stop it. and we'll pick it up after the election. the postal service is fully capable and committed to delivering the nation's election mail securely and on time. we are very, very comfortable that we will achieve this mission. >> yeah, that's easier said than done. dejoy, supposedly a logistics expert could not provide a detailed plan for how he would ensure that every mail-in ballot would arrive in time to be counted. he noted that disruptions in delivery but they were solely for cutting costs. he had not considered the impact of delayed prescriptions or paychecks on veterans, seniors and working families. imagine that from the guy who runs the post office, he just didn't think about it.

as for changes carried out, including replacing mailboxes that have been removed or reassemble machines, he was pressed on those issues. senator gary peters of michigan. >> are you suspending your policy eliminating extra trips, yes or no? >> no. first of all, the policy was not to eliminate extra trips, it was to mitigate extra trips. >> are you limiting overtime or are people working overtime to move the mail out efficiently every play. >> we never eliminated overtime. that's -- that's not -- >> it's been curtailed significantly is what i understand. >> it has not been curtailed by me or our leadership team. >> internal postal service documents say otherwise, though. nbc got its hands on them and they slow that policy changes effectively have limited employee overtime. during the pandemic, the the document circulated beginning in july stresses that qanon movement appears to be

gaining a lot of followers. lates late or extra trips are no follows the theory that there's this belief that you are longer accepted. letter carriers must begin, secretly saving the world from leave, and return on time. there in black and white. this is no additional transportation will be authorized to dispatch mail. the senate isn't the only chamber of congress taking action when it comes to the u.s. this is this is a satanic cult. postal service. is that something -- in the next few hours, the house will return with a rare saturdar >> i haven't heard that. is that supposed to be a bad thing or a good thing? >> donald trump is going to save white house objections. then on monday, dejoy is schedule to appear for an the fwrorldworld from satanic c in-person session on capitol hill. voter intimidation is on trump's pedophiles. as the kids say, i just can't. agenda. he said he wants to use sheriffs as poll watchers on election day. can you tell he's getting this is a fringe movement made desperate? joining us now is nbc's white up of far right racist islam house correspondent geoff phobic conspirator theorist. bennett who has reported but the only thing more improperly than qanon's wacky extensively on mail-in ballots. beliefs is its incredible rise. a lot of developments in the it's left out of the deepest past couple of days. dejoy has said that he will stop darkest corners of the web into the political mainstream with doing whatever it is that people are upset that he's doing. both qanon members and plain old

but that doesn't -- that doesn't sort of indicate a commitment to vanilla racist winning returning to service levels congressional primaries in which is what democrats in the house want. recent weeks. they want a return to the same levels that the postal service it's not just quacks seeking was operating at on january 1st shelter under the party. of this year. laura loomer who has been band >> right, ali. and the post master general is from multiple social platforms not even admitting that there's won the republican nomination a problem. and that exchange you just for florida's 21 suntst showed there with senator gary congressional direct which peters, when peters was asking happens to include west palm about cuts to overtime, you beach where the president owns heard dejoy say flatly, no. his main residence. and that didn't square with any of the reporting that i've been great going, laura, you have a great chance against a nancy doing. it didn't square with the conversation ives had with pelosi puppet. surprising to nobody is the postal employ knees new yor deafening silence from most republicans, not all, but most. further proof for your friends who are still thinking about voting republican that the party postal employees in new york, long island, and other places. i heard from one postal worker has been hijacked. racists, anti-semites and islama and he said, yes, it's true he phobes have free reign. has mandated that trucks leave on time. they can win pry maebs and will but because of the cuts to overtime, in many cases the mail trucks aren't even filled to most likely become the house of representatives, which on the capacity because there aren't republican side is no stranger enough staffers on the job to to science deniers like devin actually put the mail in the nunes of california who doesn't trucks. so he told me there have been believe in climate change,

instances where he's driving an conspiracy theorists like empty truck because it has to now leave on time. antivaxer bill posey of florida and it's also important to know that the document that you showed that i obtained, it's called mandatory stand-up talk. and steve king of iowa. to my republican friends, this is not who you are and you what this document is, this is should shudder this is happening what was circulated around the to your party. you've allude you u.s. postal service for managers to tell their employees. and the heading here is called pivoting for our future. hijacked by a man who you have few values with if any. nowhere in this document do you see the word overtime or i'll put it clearly. you have a choice to make in 73 overtime cuts. but what you do see are, as you days. support the man who has deluted said, extra trips, late trips your party and led it around by are no longer authorized or accepted. racist tropes and policy to an carriers must begin on time, leave for the street on time, and return on time. inability to confront the so what does that effectively staggering truth about racism mean? and injustice. it effectively means that or make another choice, workers are not permitted to have the same kind of access to republicans will lose their party for the ages. overtime that they had previously. these fringe movements will this is what has changed the embed themselves into the fiber culture at the postal service. of the gop and it will take i've been hearing for weeks from generations to exorcize them. people who have been at the postal service 34 years on the job and they say the culture has the grand old party they tell us been such that if mail comes in is the party of lincoln. on a saturday, it's processed we don't have to wonder what the and goes out on a saturday. 16th president would have said. now, if mail comes in on a

saturday, it might sit there in quote, if times like the some cases for a week. present, men should utter last week we got that exclusive nothing for which they would not image from a postal facility in willingly be responsible through time and eternity. gly be respoh upstate new york where there was time and eternity. a bin of unprocessed mail that had sat in that facility for nine days. and the postal employee who gave me that image said the reason that bin was there was because it had to be hand sorted. the boxes, the packages didn't fit through the machines, it had to be hand sorted and the cuts to overtime meant that he there weren't enough hands to actually sort it. >> he geoff, as always your reporting is indispensable. it's just kind of weird that start your day with secret. we're sitting and talking about this. i didn't think this was going to secret stops sweat 3x more than ordinary antiperspirants. be a thing that we were going to be discussing, but thanks for with secret, you're unstoppable. reporting. >> yeah, and this an important no sweat! point, if i could say really try it and love it or get your money back. quickly. >> yeah. >> the postal service has had financial issues for years. that's not new. it has to do with the fact that they have to prefund their and mine's unlisted.. try boost® high protein... pension plans and that goes back -with 20 grams of protein for muscle health- to bush era gop legislation, all -versus only 16 grams in ensure® high protein. of that. the postal service has the

capacity to handle election year and now enjoy boost® high protein in new café mocha flavor. mail. what's causing the delays are the policy changes put in place by the post master general. and until he fully acknowledges that and reverses them fully, we're going to see these delays no matter what he says in these hearings, al li. >> i'm glad you made that point. thank you, my friend. geoff benefit. now to continue the conversation is ruth, a former chair of the postal regulatory commission. ruth, thank you for joining us this morning. a new york times op-ed you say we shouldn't panic about the postal services impact on the election. tell me why because i'm close to panic about it right now. i do motivational speakingld. >> because i think that's just what the president wants you do. in addition to the substitute teaching. he wants you to be panicked, be i honestly feel that that's my calling-- to give back to younger people. concerned about voting by mail and then not vote at all since i think most adults will start realizing voting by mail is the safest that they don't recall things as quickly as they used to option for us during the or they don't remember things as vividly as they once did. pandemic. and, in fact, the postal service i've been taking prevagen for about three years now. has the capacity more than enough capacity to handle vote people say to me periodically, "man, you've got a memory like an elephant." by mail if everyone voted. it's really, really helped me tremendously.

if everyone voted twice we have the capacity. so i think people have to be prevagen. healthier brain. better life. calm and focus on what many of the senators did yesterday in can leave you holding your breath. the hearing, which was to get a ♪ commitment from the new pmg that first-class service will be provided to all election mail. but bristol myers squibb is working to change things. this was a question that was raised by a letter that was by researching new kinds of medicines circulated by the postal service that could help you live longer. to its offices and secretaries including options that are chemo-free. of state and local election because we're committed to bringing new hope officials in july that perhaps letter mail would not be treated into lung cancer care. that way and might take as long as 15 days. so, i believe that we made some because wwe see you.ted to bring♪ng new hope progress yesterday in the looking out...for all of us. hearings when dejoy committed to and though you may have lost sight of your own well-being, aetna never did. handling all election mail as we're always here to help you focus on your health. first class mail, even if it's because it's always, time for care. not post age marked as first class mail, and that there would be extra resources and policies in place to handle that mail, it'can it help with snoring?le of the year on the sleep number 360 smart bed. ♪ i've never heard snoring. exactly. no problem. ...and done including people on the shop floor picking up last ballot and save 50% on the sleep number 360 limited edition smart bed.

making sure it got into a truck to be delivered. plus, free delivery when you add a base. ends monday. so i think in that sense we -- >> tell me why you believe that, ruth. that's my problem. why do you believe it? because yesterday senator gary peters asked dejoy directly whether he had conversations with the administration and he didn't give a good answer. it's not clear that this is not been orchestrated by the administration. >> i don't know what the new pmg's motivations are. i -- my guess is that he came into this office wanting to show his logistics muscles and he pulled out a bunch of plans that were already on the shelf and decided to go full steam ahead with all of them, even though we're in a pandemic where he, himself, admitted that there's i'm a lifelong republican, at least 4% fewer employees but that attachment holds second because of illness and in some place to my responsibility to my hot spots as many as 20% fewer. country. that's why i've chosen to appear at this convention. and even though we have many in normal times, something like letter carriers on vacation this would probably never because it's summertime.

happen. but these are not normal times. so he was implementing a whole range of new programs without i'm proud of my republican enough people on the floor, heritage, it's the party of lincoln who reflected its refusing to add extra people, founding principles of unity and and, instead of being a a higher purpose. logistics superhero, he seems to >> what a difference it will make to have a president who be making a mistake. whether it's related to his unites us, who restores our relationship with president trump or not, there clearly have strength and our soul. i still believe that in our been mistakes. but he did commit to handling hearts we are the same america that brought my parents to our first class mail -- commit to shores and an america that handling election mail as first inspires freedom around the class mail, making sure that it world. >> the democratic national gets the one to three, on you to convention saw several unlikely four day delivery. faces during its four-day event and we, as citizens have havetoe this week, republicans. most of them are staunch sure that that happens. lifelong conservatives although he's going to be meeting with the house again on monday. a few of them have expressed those issues can be confirmed. support for democrats in the past. it indicates a shift away from the republican party because of president trump. as i noted moments ago, some and they're will be committees established and routines republicans, very few, have established by early september that we can check on to make taken a stand publicly against sure that that policy is in trump's unseemly or illegal or place and the ballots that are corrupt behavior in office and his embrace of racists and sent out to citizens so that they can fill them out and the bigots. joining me now is former ballots that are returned are treated as first class mail. republican sir michael

>> i mean, i appreciate your singleton. he's the co-host of the speak admonition. easy podcast. everybody should be also with me, rick tyler who you understanding how they mail and how they vote in their state and she mention remains with the gop getting that done now and if you do it the right way, your ballot as a republican strategist, will be counted. i do want to ask you something political analysts, and the that geoff bennett just said at author of a book still right. the end of his conversation talking about the prefunding over ten years of 75 years worth welcome to both of you. of pension obligations for the thank you for being with us. post office which has been shermichael, let me start with interpreted by some people to you. what made you leave the republican party? shea that t >> you know, ali, what made me say that the post office is bankrupt and badly run. leave was one of my favorite >> i believe that this -- we call it the health care benefit quotes from aristotle that he retiree fund obligation was a writes in book three of the politics, that virtues that are burden, a mistaken policy issue moral and intellectual ability put in by the bush are necessity for an stroid administration. and the postal management has yield power. and i reached a point where i chosen to view it as an ongoing recognized that the president of the united states is not consistent with those values. and those are the values that financial burden that limits their ability to do all kinds of are necessary for a democracy, a free society, to thrive. so it back clear to me that either i continue to fight, and other investments in innovation i realize i was losing that and efficiency that might not battle, or i object and join

include laying people off, that might include all kinds of other other individuals to say we have things. to self-correct and do everything we can to correct it's been a real political course. problem and, unfortunately, and that means removing mr. trump from office. neither the obama administration nor the -- neither the obama >> and, rick, what makes you administration nor the trump administration have wanted to stay? >> i don't disagree with address this issue. shermichael at all. in virginia, we don't have party hopefully, we now have a registration so it's not like i congress that's really willing can go down and unregister. to take on these tough issues. for the first time in my life i drew a democratic ballot and and. it postal service can be voted in the democratic primary relieved of this unnecessary and i voted for joe biden. obligation i think it can get i was somewhat reluctant to back to some level of breaking watch his speech because i was even pretty quickly. afraid i would lose my resolve. but for 24 minutes i imagined a >> ruth, thank you for joining world without donald trump and i me. ruth is the former chair of the thought on balance overall it postal regulatory commission. was an excellent speech and i could support joe biden for the >> everybody vote. we've talked about trump's reason that he's going to help me kill the alligator that's continual undermining of closest to the boat. american institutions, but the if he's an alligator down the institution he's harmed the most river, we'll deal with that is the united states presidency later. but right now donald trump is a itself. look at the can't president keeps. on thursday, steve bannon, a threat, an existential threat to american democracy and a former white house strategist national security threat. became the eighth trump he needs to be removed from office and i predict that associate to be taken into americans will do that on

custody. he was sun bathing on a yacht november 3rd. owned by a chinese boarded by u >> shermichael, it's no surprise service agents. go figure. and trump will have a tough time that donald trump's playing ftse distancing himself from this one because bannon was the engineer with the qanon folks because behind the strategy that got there's a large portion of trump elected in 2016. and he was arrest offered americans, 23% last time they were polled, believe that barack trump's signature campaign promise, building that wall. obama is a kenyan born muslim and there are a lot of bannon is accused of defrauding conspiracy theorists and they're hundreds of trump supporters who never going to find a guy like donated to a private fund which trump again. but the racism, the blatant existed, bannon claims, to finance construction of the racism and the nomination of border wall. these candidates, these racist candidates, these anti-semites, prosecutors saban ny bannon and these islamaphobes, at some others used it to accelerate point this is fundamentally damaging to the party that had a their lifestyles. he left the courthouse smiling proud heritage. >> it's damage together party, and waving to the media and wasted no time getting back to ali, it's damaging to the country. his podcast. you're seeing this rise and >> this fiasco yesterday was continued increase in edge know toib tim date anybody that wants nationalism and natoism. to talk about american sovereignty and wants to talk you're seeing individuals who about the wall. are pseudointellectual to facts we're never going to stop talking about that and fighting and history and norms and for it, right? standards. if you study from all the way to president trump is in an absolute dogfight right now. and don't think that if the great edmond burke, each

president trump was not to win re-election, right, that you're those great men wrote against not going to have a total sea these types of things. and so today you see a change as far as that goes, republican party that is right? inconsistent with its >> let's go back to those other philosophical underpinning. but, ali, i will say that these trump friends that have been things have been in the making criminally indicted. roger stone, paul manafort, for a very long time. and i think that's why you see michael cohen, michael flynn, rick gates, george papadopoulos, so many americans are so hesitant, so skeptical and so george nader. anti-republican because the republican party today has come nearly all of their indictments to represent something that is were in swaying the 2016 repulsive and, again, against the liberties that we represent as a free society. election. and we're still learning about ties to the trump campaign. >> so rick tyler, and i can say senate intelligence committee this to you because you and i are friends and we know each just dropped the fife and tth al other. shermichael's right, it's been volume of its report saying that happening for a long time. what responsibility do people russia did help donald trump. like you have to not having shut coming up, millions of parents this nonsense down when you had have a decision to make if your a chance back while you were child's school is offering in-person learning. still drawing republican do you let them attend? ballots? >> well, let me say this, ali. we'll be back in a moment. you said in your monologue which >> i would wake up very stressed. i thought -- i appreciated very i would wake up at 3:00 in the morning worried about it. much and you mentioned colin i've shed tears about it. i've shed tears about it. powell and john kasich and ♪ others. i still believe that the rank

copd tries to say, "go this way." and file -- let me just -- the rank and file republicans, i say, "i'll go my own way, with anoro." republicans that i knew would never allow qanon in the door. ♪ there's always going to be a once-daily anoro contains two medicines radical fringe among any group called bronchodilators and the republican party has that work together to significantly improve them. but leaders would shut the door lung function all day and all night. on them. trump didn't do that, he opened it wide open and now -- and now do not use anoro if you have asthma. they've become mainstream. anoro won't replace rescue inhalers for sudden symptoms what i blame my party for is not and should not be used more than once a day. rejecting it. the reason i wrote my book, tell your doctor if you have a heart condition, high blood pressure, glaucoma... still right, is precisely what prostate, bladder or urinary problems. shermichael was talking about. we need to lay down a marker of these may worsen with anoro. what conservative values are and call your doctor if you have worsened breathing, chest pain... mouth or tongue swelling, what they mean. problems urinating, vision changes or eye pain, on so many issues including racism and immigration which while taking anoro. the most common side effects are sore throat, diarrhea, takes the form of racism in his policies. trade it's the same thing. and pain in the arms and legs. trade immigration, economic ask your doctor about once-daily anoro policy, this president is 180 to start treating your copd. degrees out of phase. i'll admit that the conservative we're here for you during this challenging time--and always. ideology has always been an find support at anoro.com. unwanted stepchild in the republican party except under reagan which they got eat at the main dinner table, not at the kid's table. now we're not only not invited

back to the dinner table, we're not invited at all and the people at the dinner table who engage and embrace racist policies and utterances actually call themselves conservatives. and i think that's -- i think words mean things and i wanted to lay down a marker of what the conservative philosophy is, not just people that call themselves conservative. >> shermichael, did you we're here for you during this challenging time--and always. experience any of that in the puberty means personal space. so sports clothes sit around republican party? >> i mean, not from political doing a little growing of their own. ohhh. leaders, but certainly in my experiences i've seen some folks ahhgh. where i thought to myself, mm-hmm, i don't necessarily so imagine how we cheered when we found tide pods sport. think these people belong to the party. and a part me of being part of finally something more powerful than the funk. the gop my entire time i've always fought to try to change bye. some of those things in the i love you too! he didn't say that. republican party. because from my perspective, i tide sport removes even week-old sweat odor. wanted to a party where african americans in particular could if it's got to be clean, it's got to be tide. see an opportunity to potentially vote for republicans because many do have conservative values. lookentertainmentour experience: xfinity x1. again, as i stated earlier, it's the easiest way to watch live tv unfortunately believe that i and all your favorite streaming apps. lost that fight. i tried, ali.

plus, x1 also includes peacock premium at no extra cost. i tried every single thing i could, man. and unfortunately it has become clear to me that there are some this baby is the total package. people in the party who just it streams exclusive originals, don't want to go in that the full peacock movie library, direction. i accept that. but for me, i say i don't want complete collections of iconic tv shows, and more. to be a part of it. yup, the best really did get better. >> rick, i got a minute left, magnificent. but i would like a world in xfinity x1 just got even better, which somebody can actually get with peacock premium included up and say i'd like to choose at no additional cost. no strings attached. between the republican and the democratic candidates in my direc district, or my state. that's not the moment we're in right now. how long before the republican party can be a thing that reasonable people can say this is a real choice? >> well, a couple things. i think the party's going to suffer a '74 watergate wipeout. think that's necessary. think republican party has to reject trumpism and everything that had has embraced. it's going to take a long time for the republican fear the recover and regain its conservative philosophy or any philosophy at all for that matter. the democrats can do their part by showing how to become a governing majority.

if they go too far to the left they will be rejected again and we'll be in that constant battle. i'd like to seep us return to policy arguments and not this partisan division that is practiced by our president. >> what i would give to have policy arguments, disagreements. >> i'd love to are policy arguments too, ali. >> we used to do that, rick. we used to do that, remember? >> that was fun. those were fun times. in the way that i have been >> we doll will do itten. talking about it, as a layman that has been saying these >> shermichael, good to see you. things, am i saying anything that strikes you as wrong? rick tyler republican >> the only thing strange about strategist. a quick programming note, it is you're the only one saying it. thing strange about it is you're the only one saying it. join us wednesday or week long coverage of the election news. we will provide in-depth coverage and analysis this week starting monday through thursday starting at 7:00 p.m. eastern right here on msnbc. the white house left the fate of thousands of migrant

how confident are you that new york city schools are ready children to eye hand vote. to reopen? we know how that ended, with >> well, it is first fingers kids in cages. "velshi" continues of that. n c. crossed on all of this, right? "velshi" continues of that. >> if you have school-aged children in new york city, would you send them to a new york city clearly,ve. eami. i.s. public school? >> well, they're still working out what the plan would be. i would have a lot of questions, parents do have a lot of questions. i'm looking for my client. i'm so sorry. accountant. this is a risky proposition no [ sighs ] hey! matter how you to it, craig, hey man! you're here. let's be honest. you're bringing a lot of people you don't trust me here is vegas, do you? into a congregate setting. well... i thought we had a breakthrough we've seen schools open, we've with the volkswagen. we did. yes. we broke through. seen colleges open and get into that's the volkswagen! trouble in one week. so there's a lot of questions to that's the cross sport. wow. seatbelts. ♪ answer. >> indeed a lot of questions to answer. with schools set to reno two weeks in new york, governor please, just tell me where we're going. ♪ andrew cue opal mope does say there are a lot of questions to when you're affected by schizophrenia, be answered. it's what a lot of parents and you see it differently. teachers are hearing across the country. it's in the small, everyday moments. we know that children can

and in the places, you'd never expect. contract covid-19 and have a little sign of hope. the feeling of freedom. severe cases and multiple and once these little moments start adding up, that's when it feels like so much more. deblindeaths it feels like real progress. of children have been reported around the country. now infected children no matter caplyta effectively treats adults with schizophrenia. how severe a kwais case or even and it's just one pill, once a day, with no titration. if they show inch toms have a significantly higher level in caplyta can cause serious side effects. their airways compared to hospitalized adults. elderly dementia patients have increased risk which may mean that they're more of death or stroke. call your doctor about fever, stiff muscles or confusion, contagious. students across the country are which can mean a life-threatening reaction reporting cases of covid-19. or uncontrollable muscle movements which may be permanent. so why are we risking the lives dizziness upon standing, falls, and impaired judgment may occur. of our children and those teaching them. compare a classroom to your most common side effects include sleepiness and dry mouth. living room. would you allow ten, 20, 30 high cholesterol and weight gain may occur, as can high blood sugar which may be fatal. people into your living room three, four times a day? in clinical trials, weight, cholesterol children are dying from the disease. in hills boflorida, a 6-year-ol and blood sugar changes were similar to placebo. so if you're affected by schizophrenia, have a conversation with your doctor about caplyta today. died from it. they had planned on beginning the school year online instead of in person, but that plan was rejected by the department of education.

joining me now say pre-k and special needs teacher in hillsboro county, florida. good morning. thank you for being with us. you have some particular concerns about the class that you are likely to go into. the special cleaning needs that are required and the distance between the students. >> absolutely. i teach special needs pre-k and typically we do a lot of cleaning throughout the day. but in light of covid, we'll do plan matters more than ever. even more. unitedhealthcare medicare advantage plans so, we will need lots of have so much to take advantage of. supplies, lots of supplies to clean with and lots of supplies see a doctor from the comfort and safety of home to keep children safe. with zero copay. >> you're actually part of call today to get more of the care you need. something called adopt a teacher where people can donate supplies to teachers. it'can it help with snoring?le of the year on the sleep number 360 smart bed. i've never heard snoring. exactly. no problem. ...and done now, we've been hearing about this pre-covid that teachers who are not the most well-paid people in our country end up in save 50% on the sleep number 360 limited edition smart bed. most cases taking money out of plus, free delivery when you add a base. ends monday. pocket to buy supplies. this has now been made worse during coronavirus where puberty means personal space. so sports clothes sit around growing odors. teachers are actually requesting non buy, in some cases, cleaning that's why we graduated to tide pods sport. supplies. >> absolutely.

i'm on several websites along finally something more powerful than the funk. with my assistant jim davis. tide sport removes even week-old sweat odor. we are requesting supplies, it's got to be tide. donations, from the community as well as their parents. unfortunately, the funding in the district just isn't enough. >> your desks, tell me about the classroom space. we generally believe people should be six feet apart. i'm not sure what the rational is in your school, maybe because children are smaller they think she should be three feet apart. but you're going to have kids three feet apart. >> absolutely. the space i'm working with in my particular site, we do the best we can. however, three feet is about what i'm going to be able to accomplish. they will have flexible seating so they will move from their chair to a carpet square, however, it's know the freedom that we typically get in a pre-k. >> talk to me about the other parts of being in a school with students going school. it's not just the classroom,

it's the transportation, it's the cleaning, as you mentioned, and it's the cafeteria. >> absolutely. our children, the first person they meet are the bus drivers. and so there will be a bus transported to us and that's a concern because typically they sit in perhaps three to four in there's been a lot wrong with the last four years, but a seat, my little ones. the separation of migrant and then they go to the children from their patients will go down as one of this cafeteria. this year i'm opting with the administration's most appalling permission of my administration, actions. not to go into the cafeteria to new reporting from nbc's julia ainslie and jacob sober off minimize the risk of infection reveal the shocking details. it's a twisted picture of a or possible contracting something. white house meeting saying in so we are going to eat outside 2018 they hand vote to decide or eat in the classroom so that whether or not they wanted to we can potentially protect our separate migrant children from their parents. children. because there's so many kids white house policy advisor coming back to school. steven miller notably led the vote in a meeting that included >> wendy, thank you for joining us. we wish you the best of luck. jeff sessions. and secretary of state mike let's keep in touch as school begins to let us know how things pompeo. are going. miller told those assembled that wendy is a pre-k and special

needs teacher in hillsboro quote, if we don't enforce this it's the end of our country as county, florida. she's a mother of three and we know it. she's been teaching for 14 years. then secretary of homeland from the moment he descended security voted against the that escalator in 2015 policy saying the agency didn't have enough resources to proclaiming that mexicans are r separate children and return them to their parents in a timely manner. they deny that this ever took made his ideals known. place. but we're seeing them in the nielsen still says there was republp icxt, why the gop never a policy to separate children crossing the border. needs to do better. listen to what she said in july. cause when , it's more treatable. >> so when the families, the i'm cologuard. i'm noninvasive and detect altered dna in your stool truth is there was no policy to separate families. such a policy was requested of me. it was requested of general kelly as well when he was secretary and we both just dismisseds it out of hand. there was no direction to separate families who legally entered the united states. >> nbc news correspondent joining me from los angeles. the author of the new york times best selling book "separated" inside an american tragedy.

and the premise of your book disappears if what the administration is saying is true. this kind of just happened. luck of the draw everybody got separated? >> that's not how it happened at all. and first of all let's talk about why this is important. you brought it up in your introduction. we're talking about what physicians for human rights, the no bell peace prize organization. it said it met the united nations definitions of over 5,400 children ultimately. what the american government did was government sanctioned child abuse and i did not know that at the time that i reported out my book and there are many details that i had never heard before when i reported the book, that this meeting took place at this key point right before nielsen signed the policy which she denies was a policy. a feat of verbal gymnastics if you ask me and in fairness to

her, she did not raise her hand in the white house situation. when we say it was a hands vote it was a raise your hand, steven miller told everyone assembled in this room and the invited participants included mike paerpaer miller put this to a vote saying we're either doing this or we're not doing this. he was sick and tired of waiting. he didn't want to debate about the size, the scale, the scope, what ultimately would happen after wards but decide warnings that this could have negative consequences, obvious negative consequences, the cabinet members present put their hands up in a sea of hands according to our reporting and of course they moved forward with this policy and the consequences followed. >> steven miller, strange character who has consistently dlo throughout this administration continued to hold sway over the president. very serious sway and he seems

obsessed with this issue of immigration, not just illegal immigration from across the border. he just thinks immigration is bad generally. >> yeah and i think what this story in particular hinges on is the degree to which they wanted to harm migrants and if steven miller's version of family accept rations would have played out and i'm not saying any version of family separation was tolerable. you know this. i saw it with my own eyes. i found it. it's almost -- i get the chills. i swear to you every time i talk about what i saw down there, the kids in the cages at the border but stephen miller wanted to separate 25,000 more children than were separated in the two months alone under that zero tolerance period. if you were to extrapolate that out we're talking about 100,000 children if they were to have separated every parent from their child that arrived at the southwest border. a very famous column saying the

cruelty is the point and there is no other way to look at this or understand the motivations of the officials without that as the underlying motivation and in the book there are countless examples of what can be described only as crewty. >> you talk about the term torture that was used. think about what happened. isolation, depravation of contact with others, depravation of sleep, control over light and temperature, all of the things that you use to torture people. >> well, let me give you one other example. the u.s. gvt v government is on the hook responsible for paying for the medical welfare, basically therapy sessions for families that were separated by the u.s. government and so many of them are so terrified only a tiny fraction have exercised their right to get this critical valuable medical resource. and the father and son that i write about in my book said to

me when i was down on the boarder reporting for us, when president trump was in yuma, maybe a month or month and a half ago, they said if you see -- juan said this to me. if you see president trump ask him for me why did he separate all of us from each other and why did they traumatize us psychologically? it's something they will grapple with for the rest of their lives. an official involved in the are you unifications told me it was the greatest human rights catastrophe working domestically in the u.s. government. >> may it haunt those who made that decision for the rest of their lives. thank you for that excellent reporting. author of the best selling book "separated, inside an american tragedy." that does it for me. thank you for watching. i will be back tomorrow. up next, on a.m. joy, and joy reid is making a special appearance. don't miss it. you're watching msnbc. re watchi.

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this is our mission. may history be able to say that the end of this american darkness begin tonight as love and hope and light join in the battle for the soul of the nation. >> if you want a vision of your life under biden presidency, think of the smoldering ruins in

minneapolis, the violent anarchy of portland. the blood stained sidewalks of chicago and imagine the mayhem coming to your town and every single town in america. you're not going to have law & order. >> good morning and welcome to a.m. joy. i'm jonathan capehart. with just 73 days until the most consequential election in modern american history