this is our mission. may history be able to say that the end of this american darkness begin tonight as love and hope and light join in the battle for the soul of the nation. >> if you want a vision of your life under biden presidency, think of the smoldering ruins in minneapolis, the violent anarchy of portland. the blood stained sidewalks of chicago and imagine the mayhem coming to your town and every single town in america. you're not going to have law & order. >> good morning and welcome to a.m. joy. i'm jonathan capehart. with just 73 days until the most consequential election in modern american history we're in the

middle of the battle for the soul of america with two vastly different visions for the future. an historic democratic convention, the democratic party delivered a pointed takedown of donald trump all while amplifying the diversity that is america. and stressing just how vital every single vote will be in this election. >> if you think things cannot possibly get worse, trust me, they can and they will if we don't make a change in this election. >> do not let them take away your power. do not let them take away your democracy. >> don't forget, joe and kamala can win by 3 million votes and still lose. take it from me. so we need numbers overwhelming so trump can't sneak or steal his way to victory. >> the convention received widespread praise and acclaim across party lines but as donald trump heads into the republican

national convention next week his world is collapsing all around him. on tuesday, a new report from the republican controlled senate intelligence committee reaffirmed the trump campaign's willingness to accept election assistance from a foreign add ser vary. trump also openly praised a qanon conspiracy theorist. and on thursday his former white house advisor was indicted on charges of defrauding thousands of do nors in a private fund raising effort to build the signature wall across the mention gan wo-- mexican border. in all of this is happening as donald trump gets ready to accept the republican presidential nomination which because of the coronavirus pandemic will be done without

the large boisterous crowds that fuelled his 2016 campaign. joining me now john meech ham who's author of his truth is marching on. john lewis and the power of hope. and joy reid, host on msnbc. >> hoist. >> thank you, john and joy for being here this morning. >> joy, you shouldn't have laughed. look what capehart is doing. >> come on. >> i'm still here. >> yeah, so you are here seven days a week at least in name. >> i meant your saturday group. your saturday group. >> let's start this conversation by listening only because it is vital to actually hear this particular clip, let's listen to president trump and we'll talk about it on the other side, joy. >> over the last week the democrats held the darkest and

angriest and bloomiest convention in american history. they spent four straight days attacking america as racist and a horrible country that must be redeemed. joe biden grimly declared a season of american darkness. and yet look at what we've accomplished until the plague came in. i'm the only thing standing between the american dream and total anarchy, madness and chaos. >> now, joy, i hesitated to show that clip, but i wanted to play it because at least to my ear president trump seemed to be doing a whole lot of projection. >> yes, he did. i mean, look, okay, yeah, so dark. a young man who was inspired by the fact that joe biden also has a stutter and overcame it, seeing all of the states and territories and series doing the

role call and getting to see the beauty of america. i hate to break it to you, donald trump, but the american darkness, it was about you. okay? all of the things that -- all of the speakers said about the declining american spirit, about the increasing fear of losing our right to vote, about the dissociation of one american from another, the breakdown of the united states, man, that was all about you. those thing it is were about you. with all of these speakers is that you dezrstroyed the americ sense of community, you destroyed america's belief in the electoral system. you're the one challenging the ability of americans to vote. you're the one destroying the post office. all of that dark and scary stuff you heard was all about you and as somebody who thinks about himself 24/7, it's surprising that he didn't notice that all of that stuff was about him. >> i kind of get the sense that he knows it was all about him and he's just trying to -- just trying to deflect.

the man's been -- has been projecting since he came down that escalator. john meacham i want you to listen. >> we must decide whether we will continue to to be prisoners of the darkest american forces or will we free ourselves to write a brighter nobler story. that's the issue of this election, a choice that goes straight to the nature of the soul of america. >> obviously that was you speaking at the democratic convention in what had to have been one of the most powerful and buftful comments about who we are as a nation and the complete opposite of what president trump had to say. talk more for those who haven't seen it about what you were trying to say. >> well, thank you for that. i hate to be serious with

capehart. my good friend, but that's very kind. i was honest. i was as honest as i could be. i was honored to be asked to do it. my only assignment just for a little detail, there was no control exerted. the vice president said define the soul of america and do it quick. nobody asked me to endorse him, nobody asked me to mention him. and so it was kind of a brave thing, i think, in that -- in that sense for political folks to let a historian type do that. you know, my view of the country is historically based and theologically based in many ways. we're not perfect. we're -- our mutual friend john lewis actually believed that we were perfectible. he believed that if we all had the right disposition of heart and mind we could bring about the beloved community, the kingdom of god on earth.

the reason john lewis is a saint and is someone who's going to illuminate the path for us is because that is a fairly unique belief. i don't. i believe with president obama and others that ultimately we can't do everything we want to do on this side of paradise. but at our best, this country has managed to do better. we've managed to expand the promise of the country, not just for people who look like me. i'm a white male, boring southern episcopalian. things work out for me in this country and always have. the point of america has to be that everybody has what lincoln called an open field and a fair chance. and we can't just say we're created equally. we have to treat people equally. and again, at our best, from seneca falls to selma, to

stonewall, that's been the american story. and it's never going to be perfect. and victory will never be total, but you know, what john lewis taught us and what joe biden talked about and will do is that at least we can march in that direction. >> well, when john lewis was marching over that bridge in selma, alabama, it was amar'e to montgomery to demand the right to vote. and you know, president trump has made a pretty clear that he wants to stand in that way. here's what he had to say in -- let's go to element two here, the story in politico about leaked audio where trump hailed low black turnout in 2016. many blacks didn't go out to vote for hillary because they liked me. that was almost as good as getting the vote, you know, and it was great, the president elect said, according to an audio recording of the meeting shared with politico, joy, you

know, the president says he's done more for african americans than anyone, maybe even lincoln, but there he is hailing the fact that black people who didn't vote basically voltted for him. >> yeah, and also let's keep in mind that among the people that he said all of that to was the son of martin luther king jr. let's not forget. mlk iii was in the room, so he's speaking to the son of dr. king and saying that he's done more for african americans than anybody else. look, let's not also forget that when john lewis marched they were also marching for the right to assemble lt they were also marching to reaffirm the people's right to assemble so that was the other piece of that fight and also obviously of course the right to vote. you know, what donald trump has done for african americans is to make it very clear the very real stakes of voting. to make it very clear how expe

is particularly for us and for brown folks and for indigenous folks, that the stakes for us in voting are much, much higher and you know, if you just look at the numbers and the way we turn out in vote, particularly black women we already knew that voting was the critical way for us to resume our place in this country, for us to claim our place in this country. we voted much higher numbers than any other group. however, there are still some african american voters who think that it doesn't make a difference. right? that neither party really looked out for us. we don't really get what we want. we don't really get what we need at the voting booth. donald trump made it very clear that voting can be the difference between being in a democracy, being able to assemble and not having someone in office who actually is concerned about reducing police violence against the black body and having someone who encourages its. having somebody who actually wants to make the country better

and to live the beloved community and somebody who doesn't want to be an american president. i think the most powerful thing that joe biden said is he will be an american president. we've had some bad ones. johnson, jackson, woodrow wilson, richard nixon, donald trump, we've had terrible american presidents but they've all been fundamentally american presidents. they didn't bow to a foreign government the way that donald trump does to vladimir putin even when he puts bounties on our troops. they didn't seek the help of foreign governments to stay in power and they actually thought more, they thought that they were governing the entire country. donald trump only believes he's governing his far right base and apparently the qanon cult. that's who he's president of. he's not the president of the united states. >> jon, we are running out of time but i didn't want to let you go without asking you about

your book. i thought the book wasn't coming out until october but it's coming out next week. >> yeah. it is. and you know, you and i were both lucky as was joy to know congressman lewis. one of the things that pleases me most is he had a chance to read it before he left us. and it kind of makes my heart swell a little bit. this is a man who pointed the way not from a mountain top, but from the valley working with everybody. and doing what you and joy are talking about, going to montgomery, going to demand the tools to bring the world closer into harmony with the ideals of the gospel and the ideals of a genuine human family. and you know, you and i were there, i guess all of us were

there, weren't we, in march on that -- when he was on that bridge for the second to last time, and i just remember, you know, he's so -- he's thin, he's lost the weight because of the cancer. cancer did something that conner and jim clark couldn't do. it actually pushed him physically and remember how his voice came alive. he just, you know, we're going to -- we spilled a little blood here but we're going. you know, you've got to keep going. you've got to keep going. if you see something, say something. and in the bible, a shout was always a sign of the intervention of a kind of a miraculous action and when i think about john's voice, i think he's shouting and telling us to vote in this chapter of darkness and push on to light. >> may the spirit of john lewis point us the way through november and carry us through.

jon thank you very much for being here. joy reid, thank you for being here. you can catch joy on the reidout. monday, joy will help kick off msnbc's coverage of the republican convention. coming up, simone sanders of the biden campaign previews how they plan to counter program the rnc. that's next. m the rnc. that's next. tums versus mozzarella stick (bell rings)

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see is a very different depiction of america. what we saw last week from the democrats really their entire convention was about bashing donald trump and it was a dark dismal and really depressing vision of america i think that they presented. we are going to have the opposite. ours will be hopeful and inspirational and patriotic and we want people at the end of our four days to be reminded that america continues to be the greatest most exceptional nation

in the world. >> trump campaign advisor and donald trump's daughter-in-law offered her interesting take this morning on next week's republican convention and how it will differ from the democrats. joining me now is simone sanders. senior advisor to the biden campaign. you know what? you're also the author of "no, you shut up." thank you very much for being here. i'm sorry. just listening to lara trump just totally made my mind explode. let's start off the conversation there. react to lara trump. is that what the -- from your perspective what the democratic national convention this past week was all about? >> you know, jonathan, just because they say it doesn't make it true. our convention was hopeful. vice president biden, he made an effective and affirmative case for his candidacy. he demonstrated and articulated that he would be an ally of the

light. we were squarely focused on the people. we the people where we highlighted working families, real folks across this country and how yes, they are being affected by this moment, by the lack of leadership in the white house, but we also talked about a bold and hopeful vision for the future that vice president biden and kamala harris are running on. i don't know what she's talking about. maybe she didn't watch the convention. i don't know. >> traditionally when a party is having its convention the opposing party, you know, goes dark. they don't do anything, they don't say anything, they let the opposition have its moment in the sun, but this is not donald trump's time now, meaning he went to scranton the day that joe biden was supposed to -- was giving his nomination acceptance address. he has not gone dark. he is still very much out there, very much trying to get in

y'all's faces. are you going to do the same thing next week? are you going to go dark or are you going to go all the way live? >> well, we are ear absolutely not going dark, jonathan. we are going to spend next week demonstrating how donald trump has failed various segments of america. so we're going the talk about working families, his failure on covid-19, talk about health care. we're going to put the spotlight back on the people of this country. so it's basically a continuation of we the people. next week at the republican convention i can just imagine you won't hear a kind word about the life and legacy of john lewis or the need to pass the voting rights act that bears his name. you probably won't hear the word climate change. you probably will not here a rebuke of the russians for meddling in our election or for putting bounties on the heads of americans. you probably won't hear the word constitution. maybe you will, but i don't know if folks have read it and we are

very positive, jonathan, that you will not hear next week an effective and affirmative case from donald trump on why he should be re-elected. >> speaking of kind word, you said just a moment ago, will you respond to what -- to my mind will be inevitable attacks, personal attacks from the president of the united states on democratic presidential nominee joe biden, but most particularly on vice presidential nominee, senator kamala harris of california? >> well, look, the reality is, the trump campaign, they're going to lie. they're going to continue to try to throw mud and everything at the wall because they have found nothing that has been able to stick to joe biden or kamala harris. we're not going to take them sitting down but we are going to focus squarely on the american people. senator harris as she gave her acceptance speech for the democratic nomination for vice president she talked about how when she first stepped into a

courtroom as a prosecutor, she said four words. or three words. for the people. and that is what we are going to be focusing on this week. and demonstrating and highlighting how the trump campaign and the trump administration has failed. >> symone sanders, thank you very much for being here this morning. >> always good to see you, jonathan. >> democratic leader joins us for the latest on the growing postal crisis. test on the growi postal crisis. what do you think? i don't see it. only pay for what you need. ♪ liberty. liberty. liberty. liberty. ♪ no uh uh, no way come on, no no n-n-n-no-no only discover has no annual fee on any card. i wondered.. could another come around the corner?

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the postal service is fully capable and committed to delivering the nation's election mail securely and on time. >> we are comfortable that we will achieve this mission. >> the house moments ago and is expected to vote today to allocate $25 billion in emergency funding to the u.s. postal service as postal workers have sounded alarms over changes that have slowed down service across the country. the vote comes a day after postmaster general dejoy testified before the senate denying that cutbacks were an attempt to curb mail-in voting. the white house has threatened to veto the bill. joining me now is house majority whip, congressman jim clyburn of south carolina. thank you very much for being here. >> thank you for having me. >> i need you to give me your thoughts here. the postmaster general told the senate yesterday that there is no attempt to curb mail-in

voting. is that how you see it? >> it's not the way i see it. the fact of the matter is, irrespective of what he may say took place between him and the president they admit just before he implemented these policies and we heard the president talk about being against mail-in ballots. now all of a sudden we saw sorting machines being removed from post offices, and it happens to be post offices in states that have been mailing in ballots for years. in fact, in oregon, that is the way they do all of their ballots. and so it's no question in anybody's mind that this is an attempt to slow down the mail, prolong the count, allow this president to have a post election narrative that will bring all kinds of doubts to the results. so it's no question in anybody's

mind as to what's going on here. >> congressman, let me ask you a practical question here because people watching might say great, the house is doing something. they're voting on a bill, they're trying to save the postal service but then the bill goes over to the senate where senate majority leader mitch mcconnell, i doubt he'll even bring this to the floor for a vote. the white house has already announced a veto, so why do this if it's going nowhere? >> well, i think the american public needs to see exactly who is doing what and who is not doing what. and i think that we -- coming back here today, we will demonstrate to the american people exactly who is trying to sabotage this election. who is trying to suppress this vote. so it's not their words that matter. it's their deeds and most people understand the difference between words and deeds.

this president and this postmaster general expressing a lot of words, but we're also watching what they do and i really believe that that will incite the american people in a way to get to the polls on election day. we're declaring on my side of the aisle october as election month. and every state that starts absentee voting early. we are going to organize around those dates rather than the november 3rd. november 3rd may be election day, but we will have election month throughout october. >> congressman clyburn, let me get you to react to something that president said on thursday. take a listen. >> my question to you then is, are you going to have poll watchers? are you going to have an ability to monitor, to avoid fraud and

cross check whether or not these registered voters, whether or not there's been identification to know that it's a real vote from a real american? >> we're going to have everything. we'll have sheriffs and we'll have law enforcement and we're going to have hopefully u.s. attorneys and we're going to have everybody, an attorney general, but it's very hard. >> congressman clyburn, that sounds very much like the 1960s. >> and the fact of the matter is, he cannot do a thing to these sheriff departments. these sheriffs are not crazy. many of them are on the ballots themselves. they are not going to participate in his charade. he cannot order the rich land county sheriff that i know very well to do anything. those people know who elects them. they are responsible to the people of those counties and they're not going to be listening to this president who

seems to be beyond the pail. >> jim clyburn of south carolina. thank you very much for being here this morning. >> thank you for having me. >> coming up, trump's criminal circle of friends is growing and growing and growing. you get the idea. keep it right here. ep it right e this is my body of proof. proof i can fight moderate to severe rheumatoid arthritis. proof i can fight psoriatic arthritis... ...with humira. proof of less joint pain... ...and clearer skin in psa. humira targets and blocks a source of inflammation that contributes to joint pain and irreversible damage. humira can lower your ability to fight infections. serious and sometimes fatal infections, including tuberculosis, and cancers, including lymphoma, have happened, as have blood, liver, and nervous system problems, serious allergic reactions, and new or worsening heart failure. tell your doctor if you've been to areas where certain fungal infections are common and if you've had tb, hepatitis b, are prone to infections,

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we're on the million dollar yacht. and bryan took all that money from build the wall. no, we're actually in new mexico. >> seriously? video has surfaced of former trump campaign manager steve bannon joking last year about stealing money from trump supporters. turns out it wasn't a joke. he was arrested on fraud charges thursday while aboard a chinese businessman's yacht off the coast of connecticut. bannon and three others are accused of defrauding thousands of people who donated to a build the wall campaign. you know, the wall mexico was supposed to pay for. bannon is at least the 7th trump associate to face criminal charges. after pleading not guilty, he came out swinging. >> i am not going to back down. this is a political hit job. everybody knows i love a fight. this was to stop and intimidate people that want to talk about

the wall. this is to stop and intimidate people that have president trump's back on building the wall. >> joining me now, barbara mcquaid, former u.s. attorney. mia wylie, professor at the new school and cynthia oxney. legal analyst and former federal prosecutor. thank you all very much for being here. barbara, i'm going to start with you because you have a column with a headline steve bannon's indictment and arrest should worry trump and his associates. why? >> despite what steve ban don said there, this is a very strong case against him. it is a document based case. it shows promises made to donors for one thing and then use of funds for another. and so he is facing a very serious criminal charge that brings with it very serious potential criminal penalties. he has a strong incentive now to

cooperate. and he is in a position to have information about many people in trump's orbit based on things in the mueller report and in the recent senate intelligence committee report. bannon was at the heart of all kinds of activity relating to donald trump jr., jared kushner, and donald trump himself. and so if he were to decide to cooperate, he has a lot of information of potential value to prosecutors. >> i want to have you listen to something that adam schiff said about bannon yesterday to andrea mitchell. take a listen. >> weill bannon cooperate donal trump? there's no honor among thieves so i think he'll do anything to save his skin but this is who the president surrounds himself. this is who the president himself is. they're all grifters. >> when i heard that -- saw that clip from congressman schiff i was wondering, is steve bannon a

roger stone or a michael cohen in this situation? can you hear me? there you are. >> it's a really hard question. i can hear you. can you hear me? >> yes, go ahead. >> so look, i agree with representative schiff. yeah, representative schiff is dead on. they're really all the same. right? they're all grifters, including michael cohen so in that sense there's no distinction and i think he's absolutely right to point to this fundamentally whatever steve bannon is going to do, it's going to be what's best for steve bannon. and that's exactly what donald trump does, but we should really not forget that right now the american people have to decide whether they're going to vote for someone who not only surrounds himself with people who are being literally indicted for lying, cheating and stealing from the american people at a

time when we're looking at 40 million possible evictions. steve bannon was pulled off of $25 million yacht when some americans don't have a job. so the question is how much does this impact the ability for congress to come back and do something about strengthening the laws that protect the people from this kind of abuse of power that frankly both the senate intelligence committee knew about and had -- and as we saw in february, took no action on when it came to that abuse of power. >> cynthia, nbc's jeff bennett asked president trump about his circle of friends. have a listen to what he had to say. >> it's roger stone, it's michael flynn, paul manafort, michael cohen, what does that say about your judgment --

>> well, there was great lawlessness in the obama administration. they spied on our campaign illegally and if you look at all of the scandals they had they had tremendous lawlessness but i was not involved. i was not involved in the project. i have no idea who was. >> i was not involved in the project. can the president continue to feign ignorance about the criminal activity around him. >> well, he can, because that's what he does and he won't change. his formative years are over. but what we see in this administration really is corruption run amuck and almost no patriotism. and that's what this has in common with everything else. let's just say -- look at the people who gave this money. i don't have happen to agree with them, but many of these people genuinely thought they were building a wall and steve bannon has been spouting off that he, you know, became this

populist here row because of the way his father was treated in life and he was going to help these people and blah, blah, blah and none of it is true. he loves the yachting life and he ripped off the very people he claimed he was representing because corruption and his money mattered more to him than any ideology and i would agree with barbara. we're going to end up seeing pleas in this case and guys are going to roll. they like yachting life. they don't want to go to jail. >> speaking of the people who gave money to this effort, there's an ad out now for republicans against trump. take a watch. >> build that wall. >> it was all a scam. >> breaking news of steve bannon being arrested. >> defrauded hundreds of thousands of donors, capitalizing on their interest in building a wall. >> they didn't care about building a wall. they didn't want to drain the swamp. they just wanted power by making you angry. >> they used tear gas and flash

bangs. >> and robbing you blind. the truth they are criminals and it was all a scam. >> you know, that is a tough ad. a powerful ad. but do people care? >> you know, i think people care when they are at -- losing at everything and that's what we're talking about at the crisis that coronavirus has created and that donald trump lied to the american people about because he thought it threw up his interest. i think when this is linked the optics are terrible meaning watching -- remember paul manafort who spent a million dollars on a rug and now we have steve bannon who had this $25 billion yacht that he was pulled off of. and again, this is at a time when the federal government has done nothing to extend the unemployment checks of the nearly half million people in this -- half the country that's

unemployed. so the pain and real agony of our people is a serious issue and the optics including of the trump campaign which is spending its money and getting the rnc to spend its money on trump real estate so that his own campaign is feeding his own coffers is something that is not going to play well optically. >> i keep coming back to this -- to your column. to the article that you wrote and this notion about roger stone or michael cohen, which route these folks will go. which route steve bannon will go and what happens if steve bannon, the others indicted in this go the roger stone route and by that i mean don't cooperate or lie to investigators. what happens to the case then? >> well, they would go to trial, but of course there's always the possibility that president trump

could pardon steve bannon. i don't know that they have a close relationship these days. you'll recall that steve bannon left his white house job after the book "fire and fury" came out in which steve bannon told some tales out of school and he left shortly after that. president trump may not feel as generous with steve bannon as he did with roger stone who from the get-go said i won't crack. i will stand strong. in other words, obstructing justice and not cooperating against president trump and others. but i think president trump is very transactional and regardless of his personal feelings about steve bannon, i think he'll wait until the absolute last minute and if he thinks it's necessary to protect himself by pardoning steve bannon then that's what he'll do. >> let me ask you a question that came up in my household. my husband and i were talking about this and asking, could president trump pardon steve bannon before he even goes to trial? i thought you had to plead guilty or be convicted in order

to receive a pardon. >> yeah, well, you're right in that the purpose of pardons is forgiveness and mercy so it really makes sense to wait until after a person has been proven guilty. that's really far more consistent with the theory behind pardons but you don't. you can pardon someone even before they're charged with a crime and you'll recall that president ford pardoned president nixon before he was ever charged with anything for any crimes he mieg haght have committed. so the president does have a powerful tool there to exercise at any time he wishes. >> i have less than a minute left but i know you have thoughts on everything. give us the last word. >> interesting thing to think about, would he want to pardon these people and they don't have a 5th amendment right and then they can tell all and go into the grand jury or would he rather just commute sentences like he did with roger stone so that they will continue to be silent. >> and with that -- finish your thought.

>> food for thought. that's all. food for thought. >> thank you very much for being here this morning. coming up, trump's rnc plan looks like the southern strategy on steroids. i'll show you why, next. ll show. ♪ thousands of women with metastatic breast cancer, which is breast cancer that has spread to other parts of the body, are living in the moment and taking ibrance. ibrance with an aromatase inhibitor is for postmenopausal women or for men with hr+/her2- metastatic breast cancer, and shranks in over half of patients.

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they will find the way. give people light. those are words for our time. here and now, i give you my word. if you entrust me with the presidency, i will draw on the best of us, not the worst. i'll be an ally of the light, not the darkness. love is more powerful than hat. faith more powerful than fear. this is our motion and our mission. >> welcome to am joy.

joe biden drawing stark comparisons with donald trump. we don't know for sure what trump plans to say, we need only look at his recent remarks in pennsylvania to get an idea. >> if you want a vision of your life under biden presidency, think of the smoldering ruins in minneapolis, the violence in portland, the blood stained side walks of portland. imagine coming to your town and every town in america. you are not going to have law and order. >> these stark warnings aimed mainly at white america. similar to his speech in 2016 with a vision of america as a dark and threatening health scare in need of their authority ariane ways. his racist dog whistles have

become audible grauls for all to hear. take this campaign at the beginning of july. >> you have reached the 911 police emergency line, due to defunding of the police department, wir sorry, no one is here to take your call. if you are calling to report a rain, president one. a murder, press two, a home invasion, press 3. all other crimes, leave your name and number, someone will get back to you. our estimated wait time is currently five days. goodbye. >> i'm donald trump and i approve this message. >> that's a total miss characterization of what activists say when they say defund the police. the rallying cry of black lives matter since the killing in may. >> look at these tweets, the one

that warns housewives that an invasion of, well you know, is coming to their neighborhood and american dream. stat isicily speaking, many suburban neighborhoods are primarily white. you ignores that the number of people living in those suburbs have increasingly changed over the decades. remember this couple that bran dished their guns as a black lives matter walked by. that same couple that has been charged with a felony, will be speaking at the national convention next week. being lifted up as here "s by the president of the united states. i'm bringing all of this up because each of these examples demonstrates how donald trump once again is using racial

grievance to convince white americans, that people of color, particularly black people, are a threat to the american way of life and a biden presidency will only make it worse. >> joining me now is derek. authority of the book, a former white nationalist. >> with us also, principal at the black lab. >> and host of the podcast, into america. >> msnbc contributor. and executive director of one people's project. >> thank you for being here. derek, i want to start with you. i've interviewed you for my podcast, we've had a discussion about white nationalism. i wanted you to decode might nationalism. go back to that add we just

played. how does that play into the white nationalist view of america? >> it is exactly the white nationalist view of america. it is the propaganda they use when they are trying to get someone from a more subtle, racist position and amp them up to something much more in your face. that is always the way it begins. approach approaching white people who have fears who are concerned and think they have a lot of perspectives on america that really aren't true and trying to tell them all of their fears are not only true but they are not being addressed by anyone except you. if they don't follow you now, they are going to be in serious trouble. >> one other thing we talks about that didn't make it into the podcast because it came after we ended, you pointed out that people have this view of

white nationalists of being people out in the rural part of the country. that's not exactly true, is it? >> if you stop and ponder, it makes sense, the majority of the people donating are living in the suburbs or the cities. most of the funding is coming from people living in cities who are just as match a part of these communities as anyone. we tend to talk before it as racist ideas only exist outside of urban communities. it is really not true when you look at who is supporting, donating and participating. >> darryl, let me bring you in to the conversation here. when you see an ad like the one we just showed, what does it say

that -- we have a president of the united states that has gone from dog whistling to full out barking? >> i think it is actually, really more of the same we are getting from donald trump. he's always been doing this. i find it interesting. i want to point this out that convention is starting on the anniversary of elijah mccrane's death in colorado. he's going to make use of this convention to make those advocating for him the object of this. normally, i would get up set. i think it is because we have been particularly effective, which is why they are going into this troll that they've always used against us the past 50, 60, 1 # 100 years. what bothers me the most is that

he has the base that feels he has a green light to go after his enemies in the streets. we have seen people over the past few months get killed, injured, ran over in the name of freedom while they protest. that is the real danger. it bothers me now. you see facebook taking a lot of pages from their platform. every other day, i'm looking at a facebook video from some organization saying that they are going to go to war with antifa. it doesn't look like it is going to get him to victory in november, we still have problems with people who think this is okay. >> termain, let me turn to you.

will these messages, these appeals to white grievance and white fears, will they work again this november? >> i tli is no question he's giving his supporters many of them exactly what they need and want. let's not forget the trump brand, bankruptcies, his brand is racism and it works. let's not forget leading into 2016 where there was a rally shut down because of protests. there were fighters in the streets. there was a line drawn there. he stoked it. he told supporters, if they knocked somebody in the head, he would take care of their legal bills. will this again up more support and turn out the vote.

we should be concerned about actual, real violence here. we see requestqanon and white p supremists, all of this coded and not so coded language will most certainly work for those right and ready. there are people that may not be stone cold racist but it taps into just under the surface believes about black, brown and poor people. it will move the needle some way, whether it is turning out folks at the poles or stokes some actual real violence in the time of great violence, up rising and protests for who we are supposed to be and who we say we are.

that will swing back. let's hope this doesn't turn into something more fiery. >> you are a cocreator of black lives matter. from your perspective, given what you've done and continue to do. how concerns are you about what could happen between now and election day and certainly after election day, given this president? >> incredibly concerned. i can say i, like many people on this panel, have been raising the alarm around this for many years now. we were met with, it is going to be okay in four years. we'll just get rid of him. now what we are seeing is that number one, we are not sure what we'll have to do to drag this man out of the white house. if he zchbt steel the election. bigger than that, there is a constituency that has been

activated and energized towards black lives matter. he came out and said he is against the black lives matter organization and in support of the black lives matter movement. he does a thing where he targets particular individuals and circles his wagons around those individuals to either isolate them or put them in harm's way. we'll see it time and time again. what happens over the next week looks anything like the threats i get in my in box, absolutely i'm concerned about what happens in november. >> brittany, it chills my blood, alicia, you are getting some threatening e-mails. brittany, what does it say -- the republican national convention will feature a

felonious couple that were waivi gaffi waving guns at peaceful protesters. >> it says donald trump wants to give permission to people that want to harm us. i have a lot of threats coming to my inbox and personal spaces. activists calling for equity and liberation are not the ones standing on their lawns, waving guns. we want to help institutions change that message. none of us are sending messages like watch your back to people's homes and phones -- that's the other side. the people who are doing that are going 0 to be held up as the

american value, the very people who everyone watching the rnc who plans to watch donald trump should be ready to emulate. they are not just going to be ready to emulate them now and november. i'm worried about the fact that given all of the invalidating rhetoric donald trump has used about this election. attempting to undermine results before we even get them. he is readying his people for violent mutity if the results don't go his way. we'll all be worried about. whether or not you believe america is the best country in the world and constantly living up to its ideals or you believe there are ideals that america is still working towards. this should not be the way that you are okay with seeing your country move forward. you should be as appalled by all ofs this and making sure you you are doing something about it.

>> speaking of appalling, i want you to take a listen to this. derek, i'll come to you next. >> i spent this weekend trying to tell the white house it was a really bad idea to have president trump go to the george floyd memorial and ignite the pain and anguish we are feeling in minnesota. >> i'm going to have all of you respond to what we have heard. what is the purpose of the president of going -- or trying to go to the george floyd memorial in minneapolis? >> donald trump always hides behinds his rhetoric. this is not new. always trying to mask what is definitely calls for violence behind a sense of con sillation and fairness. this has been happening many decades. we should never be misled by

targeting immigrants, targeting black people and the movement for anti-racism and saying you are really the one who is interested in fairness. that's how these messages work even from the white explicit white supremists in an attack of people on color. my fear is that one day, that is going to be pulled back. these tweets and messages donald trump conveys are everything except for saying the word white, saying that he is looking out for white victims. i feel like we could see that before november. >> for people listening, that voice you heard was minnesota governor. alicia, your reaction to the

president of the united states trying to go to the george floyd memorial in minneapolis. >> it tracks along his previous behavior which is completely narsistic. he has no interest in bringing that community together or showing up to grief the loss and the death and the murder of a man at the hands of the location al police force there. he has no interest in talking with residents in that city to find out how to move forward. his entire m.o. is to stir the pot and get in the middle of mess and make it worse. that's unfortunate from somebody who purports to be a leader but not unprecedented. one of the things that strikes me about this president is that he's also a snake oil salesman. not only does he use instances of tragedy for his own personal gain but he promises people

through his racist rhetoric he's really standing for them. what we've seen over time is that he's standing more for people like him. people that are rich, want to be accountable and want to garner more power. our side of things can bring those things together. even on the progressive side, we do too much of looking at people like donald trump and excusing their behavior or creating a distinction between his behavior and people like my mother and my grandparents experienced which was racial terrorism at the hands of klans people who you are right, not always in hoods and robes. other times they wore baths and other times they wore suits. we need to connect those dots and make racism not about interpersonal beef and more

about policy and practice that is allowing this president to stir up the very worst of this nation. >> i want to have you also respond. as i'm listening to this -- i keep thinking but,. the president says he's done more for black people than abraham lincoln, we've heard martin luther king. let's play his words what he says he's done for the black community. >> we enacted landmark criminal justice reform. something nobody else could get done. we secured permanent and record funding for hbcus. we expanded affordable options for better health care. opportunity skoens with senator tim scott. achieved the lowest black, hispanic and asian unemployment rates in history. >> brittany?

>> all of this is a veneer for radicalization and prime time. there is language used in the books written by white supremists and used on line platforms, the dark web, even for too long in places like youtube to radicalize people. those are not ready for prime time. they are too extreme, too obvious. what did his team do? he's not doing this alone. he uses words more comfortable for middle america. dog whistles are now shouts. words that are suburban and law and order that go with 2016 law and order. the things he purports to have done for black people. he asked us over four years ago,

what do we have to lose as black folks by voting for him. the answer is our lives. he's made that clear by the way he has emboldened and embraced violent white supremists and terrorists. what you have done for a couple of people doesn't do me all that great if in my hometown, you are excited about folks that pull out guns on my comrades and local leaders on those 12r50str. this is white supreme si prepared for prime time, nothing less. i wonder your thoughts on the president of the united states embracing the conspiracy theoryists of qanon.

>> qanon is a joke. >> it is more of the white supremists that have been supporting him all of this time. the thing is, we have to fight this. all about us and pushing it back. every time the republicans put up a qanon candidate, we have to are make sure the other candidates running against them get more likes than they do. otherwise, people will throw their hands in the air and say we can't do anything about this. saying this is a republican district. we have to stop her. it is going to be more about us.

the reason why the convention is going to promote folks fighting us is because we know they have a fight on their hands. it should be that they have opened the sleeping giant, really. >> is we are out of time but i want to give you the last word. your final thoughts. >> i think many things can be true. donald trump can be appealing to racist. you think about his appeal to black voters, black men and talks about the step back. i've talked to some black republicans, not the expected black republicans but that say we have lost faith in the democratic party or leaning towards the republican party who say they've been abandoned. before george floyd, that number might get up to 15 or 16%. democrats may find themselves if they can slice off 1,000 here or

there, they might find themselves in the same position of 2016. >> ending the conversation with a very vital warning. thank you so much to our guests. next up, bishop william barber will tell us what he thinks about trump and biden's agendas for america's most at risk. so when it comes to screening for colon cancer, don't wait. because when caught early, it's more treatable. i'm cologuard. i'm noninvasive and detect altered dna in your stool to find 92% of colon cancers even in early stages. tell me more. it's for people 45 plus at average risk for colon cancer, not high risk. false positive and negative results may occur. ask your prescriber if cologuard is right for you. i'm on it. that's a step in the right direction.

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my economic plan is all about jobs, dignity, respect and community. together, we can and will rebuild our economy. there's not a single thing american workers can't do. >> while accepting the democratic nomination on thursday, joe biden promised to revitalize the american economy still reeling from the pandemic. donald trump has made it a

priority to appeal to white working class voters and stoking racial resentment among his base. this week, did the dnc do enough to offer those voters an alternative vision to donald trump? joining me now is bishop william barber, cochair of the poor people's campaign and coauthor of "we are called to be a movement." thank you for being here this morning. so answer the question, did the dnc do enough to offer voters an alternative vision to donald trump? >> certainly, it is good to talk about jobs but listen, it is critical to engage to low-income voters. it is morally right. millions have been added to the 140 million poorer people of this nation. 700 were dying the day before covid.

the question is, what are you willing to talk about openly. we hear working but we don't hear poor. are you willing to talk about living wages, health care, sick leave, stopping injustice against latino and native american people. 740 million white women that are poor. 15 states less than 1 to 19% increase in poor or low-wealth voters could change the senate. how can you not say the word poor or talk about low income specifically. that is the thing democrats, i believe, better understand. dems will say poverty when they are in an audience but when they

get before the world, they can only say and low income. many have not voted because they have not heard the issues or not been talked to. when we leave them off the table, that is a problem. >> that argument, i've heard you make that argument many times over the years. this was your primary complaint in 2016. that word poor was never used on the campaign trail and not in debates. why don't politicians, democrat or republican use the word poor? >> or low income. >> we are trapped in a neo vision of the world. they are going to get mad at me for saying that. look at the debates. they do not say the word.

they do not talk about that specifically. they talk about dr. king but dr. king talk about the poor. this is the anniversary of the week of the march on washington, he talked about the poor. he said the whirlwinds of revolt will continue to happen until we adjust poverty and racism. i'm not sure why. they tell them poor people don't want to hear the word poor. that is foolishness. if you want a massive reckoning, it requires expanding and earn gauging. that's where expanding is, where the power is. all the states trump won can be changed by organizing the poor. it doesn't take everybody, less than 19%. one of the things i don't understand and why in september, we are organizing a voting is power unleashed. hundreds of poor are coming

together to train ourselves on voter protection and participation. when democrats refuse to address it, they refuse to organize, they guarantee trump 170 votes out of the south. they leave the door wide open because he's not running. by leaving so many poor and low-wealth people, they get 26 seats to the majority. it makes no sense and has to be changed if we are serious about a reckoning and reconstruction of this society in this culture. >> bishop william barber. you took us to church on a saturday and gave us a very important message. thank you very much for being here this morning. >> thank you, jonathan.

take care. coming up, celebrity apprentice, the 2020 rnc edition. that's next. to support us no matter what.

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♪ ♪ we'll never break ♪ on our foundation ♪ it's been a long time ♪ coming. ♪

♪ oh, say can you see ♪ by the dawn's ♪ early light. this week's dnc didn't have balloons or confetti or a live audience that didn't stop it from being an a list event and the celebrities that showed up. we can image inn the celebrity line up erked trump. account celebrity president one-up the democrat show. joining us is rob reiner a and yvette brown. join reid likes to say democrats have the culture. democrats like yourself and yvette, you've come at these

issues on a deeper level, environment, marriage equality, russian involvement. why does the gop have the deficit of celebrities in its ranks? >> jonathan, i think you are missing the boat here. the my pillow guy, you don't think he cared about the world. the people with the guns outside their house to tear down the black lives matter movement. these are very dedicated people, you are selling them short. >> dedicated is our word for it. >> yvette? is. >> i think you will know the tree by the fruit it bears.

you have people pointing guns as black lives matter as your chosen people for your campaign launch. we have sweet babies learning how to get over their stutter because of the love and kindness of joe biden. i think it kind of tells us. you can never go wrong when kindness is your goal. that's why people are leaning towards the biden/harris ticket. let's stay there and vote blue. >> we are going to see four days of mayhem and visionary that he told us would be fall us in his address in 2016.

is that going to work? it did work in 2016? >> the difference here? he has created that dark vision. he has created a lot of the mayhem you see. he is sending troops in to disrupt peaceful protest. he couldn't manage the pandemic. he's turned his back on america via vis, the rest of the world. this is his world now. if he wants to say it is dark and horrible and all those things, he's responsible for it. he did it. the fact of the matter is, we can dig ourselves out of this. democrats are very good at this. we did it forever. fdr dug us out of the great depression. barack obama dug us out of the great recession. we will again dig america out of

the mess donald trump has created. >> yvette, i wrote a column earlier this week that got a lot of progressive folks really mad. but i don't care. progressives are saying, they are going to quote/unquote abstain from this election because they don't like joe biden. what is your message to them? >> we can't fix things outside and definite not if the person in charge doesn't care about us. i would like to start with the learn in charge actually caring for us and someone that will listen. kamala harris is on board. even bernie sanders is on board. i would like to ask those

people, what has donald trump done with the progressive arm, look at the amount of people who have died from the coronavirus. i'll leave it there. this man has no plan to stop this thing. if you can't see it is not just black people or brown people, everybody is in danger because of this man's incompetence and inability to come on board and make things better. i would ask you, please, as donald trump said to the black people, what have you got to lose with joe and kamala? we are already in hell. >> preach, yvette. rob, the republican-controlled intelligence committee came out with the report that confirms all the stuff we had learned from the published and reported things about the 2016

interference. why doesn't something that important breakthrough? >> there is such a mountain of horror and a mountain of corruption and criminality. it is a different story. i would suggest this is more important than anything. when we think of the original sin of this country, slavery. the original sin of donald trump's presidency was his comporting with russians and stealing the election. colluded and signed and on the record as saying that donald trump colluded with the russians to steal the election. that is the original sin of where we are now. it is unfortunate.

i understand it. the mueller report was 440 pages. this is 1,000 pages. nobody is going to read it or root through it. the fact of the mart, he's there illegitimately and trying to do it again. yvette is right. we have to get everybody out there. we are going to win the popular vote but if we don't overwhelm, if we don't overwhelm this thing with a land slidevictory. he's going to claim it was fraud, they stole it, it was rigged. we have to come out this such large numbers that it will be uncontestable. i harken back to what reverend barber said. there is a lot of people out there who haven't voted, we need to get them to the poles as well. the poor people. the ones the democrats care

about and will do something for. >> yvette, last word. >> vote blue. that will do it. >> you guys are a great duo. thank you for coming on the show this morning. >> thank you. >> thank you. coming up, congresswoman mickey sherrill from new jersey to talk about efforts with the postal service. up next, more am joy. oyersal or. buy now and get two days free at the parks. restrictions apply. they're going to be paying for this for a long time. they will, but with accident forgiveness allstate won't raise your rates just b oeven if it's your fau. cut! sonny. was that good? line! the desert never lies. isn't that what i said? no you were talking about allstate and insurance.

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do you like putin's comments about you? >> sure. when people call you brilliant, it is always good. especially when the person heads up russia. he's a leader. unlike what we have in this country. >> again, he kills journalists that don't agree with him. >> our country kills a lot of

people too, joe. a lot of stupidity going on in the world right now. >> i was on the show that day. donald trump has time and again excused putin's violence against dissidents. he's been pretty much silent in the case of navalny. representatives who has attempted to run for president against putin say they suspect he was poisoned. the leaders of france and germany pushed for a release and called for an investigation. but from the white house, near radio silence. joining me now is author of "red notice." a true story of high finance, murder and one man's fight for justice. thank you for coming on the show this morning.

>> i want to point out this headline pointing out poison has been a preferred tool for russians and critics say its deployment remains in high rotation even to this day. one of the headlines in this piece was, don't drink the tea. talking about russia and putin's use to silence his critics. >> putin does a lot of killing but he particularly likes poison. it serves two purposes. out of one side of his mouth, he can tell the whole world, if you mess with me, i'll kill you. on the other side of his mouth, he can say, you can't prove it.

he's done a lot of killing using poison. there is something called the kgb poison factory they've been cooking up ways of poisoning people that is undetectable and have other attributes and only one explanation to what happen to navalny other than he was poisoned and at direction of vladimir putin. >> one story i read was there was a theory that his flight was delayed so the poison would disappear from his system. the use of the poison is deniability. it can't be traced?

am i reading that right? >> exactly right. he fell ill on the fly from siberia and they landed where he sat for two days. the medevac plane was there since friday morning. they fought with the family who wanted to medevac him. the question is why did they defy the family's wishes. the answer that makes the most sense is that these poisons often times disintegrate and by the time they get to a german hospital, it will not be traceable. >> you put out a tweet to a story, saying the ft calls for

sanctions, freezes against any russian official implication to navalny. talk about the act and the significance to holding putin accountable? >> that act is the perfect tool for something like this. to go to a court of law and prut putin was responsible. we may not know the poison, when it was administered or how it was ordered. the circumstantial evidence was pretty overwhelming. here you have the guy in the area where he would be the uprising. what do you do with a situation

like that there is a version in the uk and canada on the people who committed this crime. the united states could easily punish the people involved. up to and including vladimir putin if that's what seems to be right. >> there is a story about how president trump is pushing for a meeting with vladimir putin before the election. this nbc story, trump eyes putin meeting before november election, say four people familiar with discussions. what message does that send that despite this alleged poisoning

of nevada avalny, that the pres wants to meet with him? >> i under understood trump's patient for putin. every time they have a meeting, it continues to legitimize him. it is a terrible idea for donald trump to meet vladimir putin. i hope the meeting doesn't happen. it sure doesn't make any sense for me why he would want to meet him and what it would accomplish effectively meeting before the election. >> we have a meeting coming up before november 3, if he wins reelection, what message does that send to putin and the your yan allieeuropean allies?

>> president trump is vladimir putin's choice for president. he wants donald trump to be elected, not joe biden. he'll be a happy man if trump gets elected because a lot he can convince trump to do that he won't be able to convince joe biden to do. there are a lot if we are not arm in arm to stop him what what he's going to do. the putin sympathizer to the united states. >> thank you for being with us. that is our show today. join me tomorrow at 10:00 a.m. when our guests will include our friend now chief of staff for

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and the hidden smiles.. the foggy glasses... and the muffled laughs. a simple piece of fabric makes a big statement: i care. wear a mask. let's all do our part to slow the spread. good day, everyone from msnbc headquarters. about 9:00 a.m. in the east. the house gets ready to vote on a bill to protect the post office. your vote, is it enough? how democrats plan to counter trump's message at the

republican democratic convention. and the indictment on bannon and behind team trump. the grim prediction of the death toll from covid-19. we await a briefing from nancy pelosi because the house is back in session today. lawmakers returning from recess to vote on a bill for $25 billion injection to the post office and ensure the postmaster service doesn't impose any restrictions before the end of the year. debates get underway. >> it is crucial we neat today, not because we are because we had to get here as fast as we could. to be able to acknowledge the postal service is a crucial lifeline for americans. >> madam speaker, nancy pelosi is dragging the entire house back here on taxpayer