♪ if it's tuesday, hope and optimism or fire and brimstone? the republican convention was supposed to be aspirational, but last night veered into the apocalyptic. plus, outrage in wisconsin after police shot jacob blake in the back as his children watched and video cameras rolled. welcome to tuesday. it is "meet the press daily." i'm tachuck todd. republicans aren't trying to win over the middle of the electorate. they're simply trying to win back disaffected trump skeptic members of their own party. think suburban republican voters. last night convention speakers railed against cancel culture and woke-topia, words you're

only familiar with if you are knee deep into some of the conservative media ecosystem. they try to convince viewers that joe biden's america would be a socialist, marxist, distopia of violence and radical left wing indoctrination. >> the democratic party does not want white people to leave their mental plantation. we've been forced to be there for decades and generations. >> they want to enslave you to the weak, dependent, liberal victim ideology that to the point you'll not recognize yourself. >> these radicals are not content with marching in the streets. they want to walk the halls of congress. they want to take over. they want power. this is joe biden's party. >> they're not satisfied with spreading the chaos and violence into our communities. they want to abolish the suburbs altogether. >> it's almost like this election is shaping up to be church, work and school versus rioting, looting and vandalism.

>> there were two exceptions to that dark tone. former u.n. ambassador nikki haley and republican senator tim scott who both delivered more hopeful, measured and traditional speeches you could have seen at pre-trump republican conventions. nearly 180,000 deaths over the last few months, millions of people out of work and social unrest across the country, is that a message that can connect with disaffected republican voters who have seen the truth through their own eyes? it's likely going to be an uphill climb because trump's republican party talks to voters like their fox news primetime viewers. the trump base may speak that language, but does anyone else? i mean, matt gates sounded like he needed a translator. tonight the republican convention will feature speakers from two very unusual locations. first lady melania trump will be speaking at the white house and secretary of state mike pompeo will be in jerusalem. joining me from the white house where the first lady will address the rnc convention is my

colleague kristen welker and carol lee who is looking into all the legal issues surrounding so many of these rnc addresses this week, including secretary pompeo's. kristen, let me start with you at the white house. obviously, this is -- i would assume, a pretty important speech for the first lady. she'd like to have a speech that's praised without her being accused of plagiarism. >> that's right. the stakes are very high for the first lady, as you point out, chuck, in 2016, she got criticized for lifting some of former first lady michelle obama's speech. so her officials are quite clear this is a speech that is not going to do that. it's going to be forward looking. it is going to be optimistic. she has been working hard on it. i'm told she was working late into the night. and she's going to try to put that human face on president trump. we've heard a lot of talk about the policy and, of course, last night as you pointed out, there was plenty of mixed messaging, fire and fury and trying to paint joe biden's america as one that would be a socialist

america. but i think what you are going to hear tonight from the first lady is one in which she talks about her relationship with the president, how she sees him as a leader and also some of the things she's proudest of. expect to hear about her be best campaign, her anti-bullying campaign and expect her to talk about some of the moments at the white house that have been most important to her. as you point out, she's going to be doing this in the rose garden, which is this very untraditional backdrop and raises all sorts of questions about potential violations of the hatch act. administration officials say, of course, that she and the president are immune from that. but internally, republican allies have said they think these optics are problematic. and so expect that to be one of the things that people are watching for quite closely. but someone said to me, this is her night. all eyes are going to be on the first lady. a big, big moment for her, particularly in the wake of 2016. she's going to try to turn the

page from that, chuck. >> and kristen, we know the president, he's the talent in chief. what is his role tonight? >> well, look, i think you'll see a surprise from president trump. we don't know what that's going to look like. and then i think he's going to be there in the rose garden. he is going to be supportive of her. we might hear a few remarks either at the beginning or conclusion of her speech. and that is not etched in stone but i'm told not to rule that out. but again, just like last night when we saw him pop up with that roundtable with first responders and also saw him with some of those detainees who have been released, i think we'll have some sort of surprise from president trump again tonight. again, officials saying that we're going to see him in some capacity every night of this convention ahead of his big speech on thursday, chuck. >> carol lee, you have been looking into the hatch act, and it seems if the hatch act is enforceable, then this convention could be stopped in its tracks.

but it appears that there are so many aspects of the hatch act being flaunted here that, i guess there's no one guarding this hen house, is there? >> well, chuck, and also there's just some -- a lot of gray area, particularly if you take the first lady, for instance, one of the questions on the legality of her speaking in the rose garden to deliver this convention speech really hinges on whether she's considered a federal employee and she's not a paid employee and there's a lot of gray area there. but to your point on the hatch act, the real concern that people have is on staff. what are staff doing. how are they being used. whether there are -- putting on their personal hat versus their political hat and it really gets mixed up when you are doing something on the white house grounds. but that's where the focus is now. and the white house said and the first lady's press secretary said that they're really following the guidelines of

white house counsel's office and being very strict about it. we don't know practically speaking what that actually means on the ground. and then the secretary of state's speech which is a whole other question. and there's really concerns about him using not only -- only speaking because historians cannot find any precedent for a sitting secretary of state to speak at a convention but also doing it while overseas on an official trip with the backdrop of jerusalem to talk about the president's agenda. that's something that you just don't see and what experts say is that he's really skirting really close to the line in terms of what he can do. >> carol -- >> go ahead. sorry, chuck. >> no, no. first of all, i want to put up the cable because we have that. but skirting the law? skirting the law, there is a specific part in the u.s. code that describes the position of secretary of state specifically,

without using the term. it says any appointed political appointee who serves with the advice and consent of the senate, which means confirmed senate employee, can't be doing this. and then, of course, he has his own cable which we're putting up now. this was pompeo's cable to state department employees. political and career ses are subject to significant restrictions. they may not engage in any partisan political activity in concert with a political campaign, political party or partisan political group even on personal time and outside of the federal workplace. unless -- the part i don't see in here, unless your name is mike pompeo because that is not an exception in there for him, i don't think. >> right. but he's making an exception for himself and these are things he signed off on. and the deputy secretary of state, the assistant, he said that he's not even going to talk about political campaign issues in emails so there's a lot of people who work for the secretary who are avoiding

things like this. he's clearly stepping out in a way that has troubled a lot of longtime diplomats, current and former. one current diplomat told us they found this un-american what the secretary is doing, and you can bet there will probably be some investigations in and around this. we also know, chuck, that this all comes while mike pompeo is widely known, has ambitions for 2024, and this is a platform potentially for him in forwarding his own political interests as well. >> he's aggressively used his position for his own political benefit there. but again, i want to go back to the hatch act. there is no enforcement mechanism. that's pretty clear, is there not? i mean, this whole thing feels as if the convention is laughing at the hatch act. >> it's one of these things where we've seen president trump really push the boundaries in terms of where the lines are and how much past officials have just observed norms and kind of

traditions and it's really -- he's exposing the glaring holes in a lot of these laws. and the fact that there's no enforcement mechanism and that they're there and most people sort of try to abide by them but that there's a lot of ways in which you can get around it. and if there's no penalty for it if there's no repercussions, then, you know, obviously you can get away with it. in the past, the repercussions would be political pressure but we're not seeing that here with president trump and a number of people in his administration. >> sometimes there's a strongly worded letter. don't do that again. no, no, no, slap on the wrist. kristen welker, very quickly, does the campaign acknowledge that they are no longer trying to be hopeful and optimistic or upbeat and optimistic. >> no, they say last night what we heard was passion and laying out the stark differences between president trump and potential biden presidency but

there's no doubt that what we heard last night was meant to stoke fear. that's something that president trump did in 2016. it worked. and we're seeing that on display again. chuck, one more quick point on the hatch act. it's as if the white house is a character in this convention. you talk about the power of the bully pulpit. we've seen the white house repeatedly, and it's just the first night that's gotten under way. >> right. no, it just sort of proves how feckless and toothless that law actually is. kristen welker and carol lee, thank you for getting us started. joining me is mike murphy, a republican strategist and msnbc political analyst and he does work for, let me make sure i get it right. you aren't on lincoln project, you're republican voters against trump, right? >> absolutely. >> get my non-trump group. >> -- >> it is getting complicated. it's more complicated ecosystem these days. i'm going to play for you two quotes from two speeches last

night. one speech last night, one speech from the democratic convention that in some ways shows you that there is some agreement between the two parties. take a listen. >> we must fight to save america now or we may lose her forever. joe biden might not even notice. settle for biden. that's the hash tag promoted by aoc and the socialists. the woke-topians will settle for biden because they'll make him an extra in a movie written and produced by others. it's a horror film, really. >> that was not the quote we wanted. that's a separate question but i'll ask you a question based on that. matt gates spoke a foreign language last night. if you don't watch breitbart or tucker or "fox & friends." who do they think he's talking, to mike? >> i don't know. i think the woke-topians run star trek and, look, this is the

new republican party. i and never trumpers hope it's temporary, where issues and traditional conservatism are out the window. everything is based in primary politics. like they were trying to win the republican primary again last night. and they are a grievance machine. they have a grievance vocabulary. i'm a conservative. i think there is some craziness to the woke stampede going on in america pop culture now, but it's a hell of a thin read to hang an entire presidential campaign. >> now let me move to the frame that i wanted to put together here. this is steve scalise and former president obama. take a listen. >> look. there's a lot at stake. this is an election between a party that wants to burn down the foundations of our country to the ground and a party that wants to rebuild and protect our great nation. >> i'm also asking you to believe in your own ability to embrace your own responsibility

as citizens. to make sure that the basic tenets of our democracy endure. because that's what's at stake right now. our democracy. >> the one thing both conventions agreed on is that this is -- that if the other side wins, it's curtains. that is this apocalypse -- maybe it's the republicans responding to what the democrats did last week, but you can't say that either side isn't raising the stakes. are we raising the stakes a bit too much? >> well, i think so because i believe in the institutions. and when you run this equation of, i'm right, you're evil, you can do anything to the opponent. as a disappointed republican, the repubs have gotten into the acid throwing business under donald trump. and the public institutions we care about. but make no mistake. the republicans have a strategy you see in this convention. they don't have a referendum on donald trump. that's a losing battle.

they're trying to elevate it to a big war, rather than policy differences or traditional stuff. there's a big movement, and it's defending their definition of america versus these radicals who are going to go scare you in the suburbs and do all these terrible things. they are a grievance machine and this is the grievance war they're trying to start to move the focus away from fire donald trump for incompetence and over to the scary, scary redefine democratic party under joe biden. and it's the only play they've got and they're trying it shamelessly. i thought there were some moments last night where they harnessed a little bit of a message with some power to scare those critical suburbs back. but often they were tripping over their shoe laces with, you know, talking to the voters they already have, which we know is a cul-de-sac demographically and not enough. no expansion. >> this sort of reminded mark murray and i of the '92 bush convention. he came in behind. he kind of knew, the perot

voters were starting to move towards clinton. and so it's a familiar play. try to remind these sort of center right independents why they vote republican more often than democrat. taxes, crime, things like that. it just feels like if they are trying to win over college educated republicans, they're not using a very sophisticated argument. >> yeah, you know, they are playing the old hits that work, but they're playing it with out of tune tubas and pianos and crashing cymbals. it takes detroitnes s droitness. this is about being -- you don't move those meters with this machine gunfire they like because they're acting like the happier a base voter is, the more their vote counts. it's arithmetic. you either get it or you don't. while tactically, they are

democrats because they're always defining the country in groups. they do open the door for the trump folks to exploit white middle class resentment politics which you saw last night. but again, it's not enough. it's not going to move the kind of votes he needs. if the biden campaign handles it and watch their cultural play which is important. and you saw biden do a little bit of that in his speech. then they'll stay in a control position. if they don't, the race could tighten off this stuff. >> who threaded that nikki haley and scott were trying to have political careers post trump. how did they do? >> i give scott the "a" for the best speech on all dimensions but there was a huge tell. the last sentence wasn't god bless america it was vote your republican ticket. that's a big duck and i'm sure trump was ticked off about it but it showed that tim scott is looking at a bigger picture than being a pure trump shell.

nikki, one of the more cynical people in politics was definitely trying to thread a complicated needle. and i think the press, you know, gave her some good coverage because she does look like what a future republican party could be. but if you are looking at primary politics, the way the party is now, it was don junior who set the place on fire. she was kind of running the old 2008 playbook. maybe the party will get back there. but last night, i thought, all in all, tim scott was the most adroit but the least helpful to trump. >> she also referred to the confessed rat flag as a divisive symbol which will have some memory there. mike murphy, appreciate you coming out and sharing your perspective. thanks, brother. we are continuing to monitor the growing threat from hurricane laura which could be an historically devastating storm. forecasters are now predicting it will be a category 3 when it makes landfall between -- somewhere between houston and beaumont early thursday morning.

at least that's where the cone is directed these days. the hurricane could bring a storm surge between 9 and 13 feet which experts say is enough to destroy even well-built homes on stilts. galveston, texas, has issued a mandatory evacuation order, and many homeowners in louisiana are boarding up and getting out. laur has already torn through cuba, the dominican republic and haiti killing at least 11 people and causing serious, serious flooding. i hope the folks on the texas coast are he'si iheeding these warnings. they offered quite a bit of revisionist history last night but the president and his slow response to the virus will set the facts straight next. and the trump administration official launching an anti-trump alliance. he's already recruited a number of his former colleagues, including those still serving, to join him. but first, we'll be sharing memorable moments from the second night of past republican conventions. we're going to go back to 1960

when dwight eisenhower took the stage to throw his support behind his vice president, richard nixon. >> i have come before you to testify to my great pride in the america of today and my confidence in the greatness of her future. also write. [szasz] we take care of ourselves constantly; it's important. we walk three to five times a week, a couple miles at a time. - we've both been taking prevagen for a little more than 11 years now. after about 30 days of taking it, we noticed clarity that we didn't notice before. - it's still helping me. i still notice a difference. prevagen. healthier brain. better life. i'm a verizon engineer, and i'm part of the team building the most powerful 5g experience for america. it's 5g ultra wideband, and it's already

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welcome back. some encouraging news about a potential coronavirus vaccine as the seven-day average of new daily cases hits its lowest level since july 1st. here's are the facts we know at this hour. there are more than 5.7 million cases in the united states. more than 178,000 americans have died. the university of alabama reports it is more than 500 new cases on its main campus since starting classes last week. and the "boston globe" is

reporting that infamous international conference in boston that a lot of folks thought was going to be a problem, well, it likely led to, get this, 20,000 different cases in early may. 20,000 cases from that superspreading event. the oxford vaccine group says it may be able to gather enough data to give its vaccine to regulators this year. the group has tens of thousands of people in trials across three continents. so the speakers at the rnc largely ignored the facts about the coronavirus and a response and instead embraced what we can politely call revisionist history. downplaying the virus threat,. g >> we have to make this china virus go away, and it's happening. >> as the virus began to spread, the president acted quickly and ensured ventilators got to hospitals that needed them most. he delivered pp & e to our brave frontline workers and rallied

the mighty private sector to tackle this challenge. >> let me be clear. as a health care professional, i can tell you without hesitation, donald trump's quick action and leadership saved thousands of lives during covid-19. >> in reality, public health officials, doctors and governors have been critical of the president's slow response on the virus. a national shortage of ppe and ventilators. there's still a shortage of ppe. president trump waited to invoke the defense production act, haep hasn't even used it to its full potential. they never created a cohesive national plan. last night sort of blaming the states which also led to confusion and delays distributing necessary medical supplies. the president was slow to embrace masks which experts told nbc news certainly cost lives and continues to push a drug the fda revoked emergency authorization on. the united states also lagged in testing, meaning we have never had an accurate look at how widespread the virus is in this

country. and we never started an effective contact tracing program. we can go on and on. joining me is dr. richard besser, former acting director of the cdc. we have a lot of questions for you over the last 72 hours of news surrounding the virus. and i hope to sort of use your expertise to focus on that. first, let's start with the issue of plasma and what the fda did on sunday and what dr. hahn has since pulled back a little bit on. what's your best understanding of this convalescent plasma? what do we know, and what don't we know? >> convalescent plasma is a promising approach to treating people with covid infection. but to know whether it works, you have to do specific studies where you're giving that product to some patients and not giving it other tos and looking to see what the benefit truly is. collecting convalescent plasma isn't a simple step. it's something that involves patients who had infection

coming in and getting blood drawn over a prolonged period of time. so you really want to know this works before you give it to people. last week when this was being discussed, a number of the nation's top scientists said the nih said there's not enough data yet. this is not something that should be approved. let's continue to do the trials. and then over the weekend, it was approved. and my concern with that was the appearance of political pressure. whether it was real or not. we need to ensure that people have faith that anything that comes through the fda and is approved, in particular treatments for covid, potential vaccines that come down the line, are held to the same standards you would for any other product in any other time. without that, people aren't going to have the confidence to use those at a time when we really want them to. >> in hong kong, it is believed now the first documented case of

somebody contracting the virus a second time. number one, does that surprise you? and number two, how would that -- how should that alter our response? >> it doesn't surprise me. given the tens of millions of people who have had covid infection and the variablity in each of us in terms of our immune system, the idea that they finally found one person who has been infected twice, and it's a very well documented case. one infection in hong kong and one when he was in europe with a strain of the virus that had slightly different genetic makeup. so it is truly a secondary infection, but the second infection, he had absolutely no symptoms whatsoever. whether that was because you see that with some people or that his immune system was able to suppress this to some degree, we don't know. but i don't think this changes anything. thankfully we're not seeing large numbers of people who have gotten infected again. but the question is still

unanswered. how long do you have protection after a natural infection? and that's very important as we start to think about vaccines and how long a vaccine might potentially give protection. >> and finally, i got to ask you, and this is in some ways, i feel like, we've had this discussion a few times. but the news today, the university of alabama, campus has been open a week. 500 cases. i assume you can't say you're not surprised. again, i go back to the opening of college campuses. are we -- here we are at a low since july 1st of new cases. i have a feeling we're going to look back and go, we missed middle august. >> we're going to see cases on any campus that opens. and the question is, you know, can you inspire young people to change their behavior enough so that they're not spreading covid widely on campus? aren't spreading it into

communities. i think any college or university that's in a community that hasn't been able to achieve very, very low levels of disease transmission, the thought of opening a college or even your k through 12 schools is not going to be successful. and i worry that the same communities, communities of color that have been hit so hard during this pandemic to date are going to continue to get hit hard as we see increased community transmission. chuck, it's finding that way to get young people to not do the things that many of them have come to college specifically to do. and that's really, really challenging. the idea they stay in the room and they're just doing remote learning. that's a hard thing to get young people to do. >> it is. that's for sure. it is. dr. richard besser, former acting director of the cdc, always appreciate having you on with your exper tetise. thank you. up ahead, another night of the protests over the police shooting of jacob blake.

we'll be live in wisconsin with the latest on his condition and the investigation. but first, a look back at 2008 when the former democratic vice presidential nominee joe lieberman jumped on board republican john mccain's straight talk express. >> well, i'll tell you what, i'm here to support john mccain because country matters more than party. john mccain's whole life testifies to a great truth. being a democrat or a republican is important, but it is nowhere near as important as being an american. ♪ come on in, we're open. ♪ all we do is hand you the bag. simple. done.

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welcome back. exactly three months after the death of george floyd set off protests and calls for change across the country, protesters took to the streets of kenosha, wisconsin, after a white police officer shot jacob blake, a 29-year-old black man in the back on sunday afternoon, while his children were in the car. the shooting was caught on camera and we must warn you it is disturbing to watch. we should also note it's not clear what happened before or after this video was taken. [ gunshots ]

>> seven shots can be heard after the car door is opened. the officers involved in the shooting have been placed on administrative leave. jacob blake is in stable but in serious condition. joining me from kenosha is nbc news reporter shaquille brewster. so shaq, where are we today, both in mr. blake's health and in the investigation? >> let's start with his health. we learned from the family attorney this morning that his family got to see mr. blake in the hospital yesterday. and his father confirmed to nbc news this morning that he is paralyzed from the waist down, although it's important to note his father doesn't know if that's a temporary condition or permanent situation. in terms of the investigation, it is in the hands of the division of criminal investigation. it's a state agency, part of the state's department of justice. they are going through and we know within 30 days they need to

turn over that investigation, a report of that investigation to the district attorney and the prosecutors. the prosecutors would make any determination on charges, if they are -- if the prosecutor determines there are to be charges. we won't know a lot until that report comes out. if there are no charges, that report then becomes public. meanwhile, protests here in kenosha continue. you mentioned the scenes last night. you see the recovery happening this morning. fire crews have been working on that building for hours at this point, still putting fire out. we saw a new fire pop up about two or so hours ago that they've been dealing with. this is a scene much different than what we saw downtown. downtown was the night of the first protest that we saw after the first night, that video went viral. what you are hearing from protesters and what you're hearing from the family, they are calling for more investigations. we heard more specifics from what the family wants from their family attorney benjamin crump this morning. listen to what he said.

>> his family is calling for the immediate termination of this officer who unnecessarily and unjustifiably and senselessly shot him all those times in the back. and that's why you have people protesting not only in wisconsin but now, t.j., they are starting to protest all over america saying enough is enough. when will black lives matter? >> we'll get a new report, a new update on blake's condition later this afternoon from the family attorneys. and more protests are expected to happen here in kenosha. we know the destruction you saw last night that happened despite the curfew that was in place last night. no word on if that curfew will happen again tonight. and it happened despite the national guard being deployed. 125 yard members coming out last night. you still see the protesting. you still see at night it goes from the peaceful protesting to the destruction overnight. chuck? >> shaq, like we've seen in

these other -- in many of these other cases, right now all of these police officers, they are getting paid and are on administrative leave. it's unclear whether any of them are going to get charged. >> that's exactly right. it's important to note we still know there are many questions about the original shooting incident. we still have that video. we heard a lot from witnesses who say different things and varying things. in terms of the official record, we still don't know. we know that there is no body camera video. that's something that officers here in kenosha do not have. the mayor saying that is slated for the budget in 2022. so there is no body camera video that is outstanding that we can see. there might be dash camera video but we don't know. there's only that initial statement that we have from police. essentially establishing that there was a police shooting, establishing that mr. blake was hospitalized. and saying that the investigation is now in the state -- it is under state

investigation with the department of justice criminal division. so that's all we know right now. still many, many questions, and it's not clear when we'll get the answers to just the basic facts of what happened on sunday night. chuck? >> shaquille brewster on the ground for us in kenosha. shaq, thanks very much. what an important nugget, though. the kenosha police department had yet to budget enough money for body cameras for their police officers. up next, a new anti-trump coalition takes shape, and it's made up of not just former but apparently current members of this administration. they're anonymous so far. stay with us. [ action music throughout ]

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welcome back. as speakers at the rnc were making their case last night that we'd be less safe in biden's america, one of the top homeland security officials was launching a campaign against the

president. miles taylor confirmed he's starting the group called the republican political alliance for integrity and reform, which, of course, spells out the word "repair." he says the group is comprised of current and former administration officials including two senior officials still serving in the administration who for now want to remain anonymous. taylor, meanwhile, is now outlining why he left the trump administration. he says president trump offered to pardon any federal official who broke the law implementing his hard-line immigration policies. miles taylor joins me now. miles, i want to start with the first -- with that first confirmation that you made there about the offering of pardons. this was a report that was out there about two years ago on this story at the time, it was kevin mcaleenan, became the acting dhs secretary. walk me through the story of how it happened. it was apparently during a trip

to the border by the president. >> yeah, chuck. first of all, thanks for having me on. i really do appreciate it. i'll say this. in some ways, it shouldn't be a surprise that we have stories about the president like this. i mean, we've come to know that this president has a proclivity towards corruption, but this really was for me the ultimate breaking point. april 2019 we made a trip to the southern border with the president. he did an event beforehand he said to a group of us homeland security officials, he said, that's it. i don't want you to let anyone else into the country, and his words were the bins are full. i don't know if the president imagines that human beings are kept in laundry bins at the border. but bins are full, do not let them in. it was conveyed to the president it would be legal for us to deny asylees entry into the border. under u.s. law, someone that claims asylum, they have to be

considered and let into the united states for legal process as appropriate. it was made clear that doing that would be an illegal act. we could not prevent individuals from coming in if they had a legitimate asylum claim. he said, look, we're full, we're full. behind the scenes what he wanted us to tell judges is just tell the judges the bins are full. and when again the president was told that couldn't be done, he said don't worry about it. do it. if you get in trouble, i will pardon you. this was relayed back to me. i only caught part of the conversation. it was then relayed to me that full comment from the president. and, look, that's a very serious thing to hear from the president of the united states. so, look, i documented that the moment it happened and as soon as we returned to washington, i had to sit down with our chief lawyer and have a conversation and say i need you guys to go determine, did the president just do something that's illegal? if so, there's a whole different course of action we need to take.

if he did something inappropriate, there's another course of action we need to take. they ultimately determined in their legal judgment that that wasn't necessarily an illegal thing the president had said but at a bare minimum, it was alarming. and, look, within days, the president had fired or accepted the resignations of the secretary of homeland security, the deputy of homeland security, the chief lawyer of our department and a number of other officials. >> did you think about bringing this to the inspector general at the time? >> we went through, i think what we thought were the appropriate channels. you know, through our counsel's office. but there were folks who i think felt it was important at a minimum to see the light of day. as you noted, at that time, it did end up making it out there in the public domain and someone took it upon themselves to make sure that that was the case. so that, you know, the public would be aware and members of congress would be aware. for me, at that point in time, that was a breaking point. i had no interest in staying in

an administration where there was a president willing to offer pardons in exchange for illegal activity. unquestionably to me that was corrupt behavior. it was inappropriate behavior. and it was time for folks to go if the president was doing that. >> our folks reported last week about a meeting between -- that was included sort of this working group of folks involved with the immigration decisions, with these asylum -- the decision to essentially separate children from their parents when they came across the border. apparently there was a meeting where there was frustration by steven miller that secretary nielsen would not implement this. her argument was you didn't have the resources to process, to separate, then process, then get into all of that stuff within a time frame that would have been reasonable to get parents back with their children. it's our understanding not a

single cabinet member from secretary azar, secretary pompeo, nobody objected to this. only secretary nielsen. do you know about this story, and is our reporting accurate, as far as you understand it? >> yeah, i'll say this. i was often in the room for those meetings. i wasn't in that particular meeting that day, but as it was relayed to me, that was accurate. and it also tells the american people a story that's very important to know about that time period. there's a popular narrative out there that the trump administration was gung ho to go out there and rip families apart at the border. in reality, the department of homeland security was caught off guard by how quickly this policy was announced by the attorney general and we spent several weeks leading into almost several months saying to the rest of the inner agency, look, we're not ready to do this. if we do this now, with the resources we have, it will be a predictable disaster. it will be a train wreck. the white house got extremely

frustrated with the secretary, myself and the rest of the department that we were dragging our feet on the implementation of the policy. but that's because we could see this was going to end in crisis. they forced a vote and they said we're going to go forward with it anyway. we were also told by a number w were going forward anyway. i'm not here to name name, but operators in our department said we think we have the resources, the justice department says we have the wry sources quickly enough the kids will be fine, it won't be a problem. they were wrong. the secretary was right to have had that doubt and we all know where it ended up. rightfully we convinced the president to sign an executive order to stop that policy. you have current administration folks to come out and endorse essential insurgence the president's reelection. do you worry that only feeds the narrative of a deep state working against the president? >> look, i think what is most

important here is people need to ask themselves this -- why are there so many turncoats around donald trump? is it that he's a magnet for traitorer and deep stators, or more logical people who come into the president's orbit, witness him in person and determine he is truly inept and are concerned about it, and want to report that to the american people? i'm not going to prejudge how someone wants to do that. we have a brave intelligence community whistle-blower who came out. i understand that. the president has created a culture of fear, so if people feel like the only way to shine light on this presidency and this administration is to do it anonymously, we will have their backs, we will protect them. they are folks making threats to other people's live. no one needs to play the violin for me, but we've already been on the receiving end of death threats in my family.

this is the united states of america. we should be able to engage in political discourse without people fearing for their lives. if that's the only way people feel like they can shine a light, that's okay. one last thing about the deep state. i helped run a 250,000-person, $60 billion a year organization, third largest department in the federal government. i never, ever had a sense there was a secret cabal of deepstaters trying to unseat the president. it's not real, it's a conspiracy theory and one that's very dangerous for the president to peddle. >> myles taylor, former chief of staff for the department of homeland security, and now leading this new effort of former administration officials speaking out about this president. mr. taylor thank you for sharing your views with us. >> thanks, chuck, i appreciate it. s huck, i appreciate it

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it is 11:00 a.m. out west, 2:00 p.m. in the east, where the republicans' theme tonight is land of opportunity. speaker on the first night instead leaned on fear to make their case for drurp. they provided an alternate reality, call the democrats radicals, warned that joe biden would destroy the suburbs by sending in dangerous low-income minority. and dystopia if donald trump lost the white house.