i want football back. these are young, strong guys they're not going to be affected by the virus. if you look at it, it's generally older people. older people that have heart conditions, that have diabetes. i have been calling for football to be back including the big ten. big ten, get with it. open up your season, big ten. >> good morning and welcome to "a.m. joy." i'm zerlina maxwell. we have developing news. there are new exexclusive new audio clips from mary trump the niece of donald trump talking to donald trump's sister.

the tapes first aired friday night on "the reidout." but first, more than 180,000 people have died of covid-19 in the united states. the pandemic continues to unfurl across the nation. impacting every corner of american life. forcing both democratic and republican parties to host virtual and wildly different conventions and americans are spilling out into the streets to demand -- to demand justice for black lives in a way we have never seen before. but what has not changed is racial bias and racial injustice. so insidious that once again an unarmed black has been shot by police this time in kenosha, wisconsin. jacob blake was shot seven times in the back and in front of his three children. as he tried to get into his

vehicle. police say they recovered a knife from his car after the shooting. his family says he is in stable condition and paralyzed from the waist down. they also said blake was handcuffed to his bed. but on friday, blake's attorney said officials removed the cuffs and vacated the warrant against him. america has been teetering on the racial tipping point throughout 2020. but this time, a police shooting set off the most impactful cultural moment in american sports ever. with major sports teaming refusing to play scheduled games, choosing to use that platform instead to stand for black lives and disrupt the status quo. joining me now is representative val demings of florida. good morning. >> good morning, zerlina, great to be with you. you look great in that chair. >> thank you so much. i'm so happy to talk to you.

first about the racial reckoning that we are experiencing. you have a background in law enforcement and so you're a unique -- so your unique point of view and perspective on this issue is greatly needed at this time where we have to pull communities and also those in law enforcement together to reach some kind of understanding as we move forward. what would you recommend we do in this moment, not just to address the current cases of police violence and to get justice, but also as we go forward on a policy level? >> well, zerlina, thank you so much for that question and first of all, let me just say this. i have been in this business, if you will, for a lot of years. i spent 27 years at the orlando police department and i had the honor as serving as the chief of police. you know, as we face this time in our nation, it's really time

i believe to stop talking about the police, talking about incidents that the police are involved in. and really start talking with the police. one thing i know for sure is that every community, black, brown and others, regardless of the economic base, the level of crime in those communities want to live and should live in safe communities. and so we really need to begin as we move from protests, we need to move to those discussions that directly involve the police. we have the international association of police chiefs. we have the national organization of black law enforcement officers. we have the national police organizations and we need to talk and start having the discussions with law enforcement to look at what in the heck is going on on our streets and turn

things around. as we also talk about police departments need to reflect the diversity in the communities in which they serve, we need to talk to our law enforcement leaders about, you know, their hiring standards and training standards and we need the critical discussions. i think the time is now to begin those discussions. >> in terms of training a lot of people are talking about reforming the police departments by starting with training and de-escalation, but they're trained in many of those techniques and yet we see so many of these videos where they're clearly not using any of that training. so what do we do next? do we try to screen those who are applying and being put into these police departments in a different way? how do we avoid having police officers on the streets clearly not listening and abiding by that training? >> that's why i think it's so important that we look at

developing national standards. mandatory minimum national standards as they pertain to training. remember, we have about 18,000 law enforcement agents throughout the nation. some are ten persons or less. some are 36,000 persons. many do not receive the same level of training. many do not have the budgets to engage in things like de-escalation training to any serious degree so they only meet the minimum standards mandated by the police. we are looking at developing some national minimum standards as they pertain to police departments, whether they're a ten-person agency as i said or a 36,000 person agency. i think those kind of standards particularly as they pertain to

training are so very important as we move forward. >> absolutely. you're down in orlando and this week we saw a historic protest by the nba teams and the wnba and then all of the other sports, mls and major league baseball followed suit. what's your reaction to really what i think is a cultural inflection point where sports are saying, we are going on strike until we really take this issue of police violence seriously. >> well, you know, i was actually encouraged to see it because we have seen one lone professional quarterback protest years ago and look what happened to him. and so i guess he was right all along, huh? so i was really pleased to see members of the nba engage in this process because we really

need to have everybody at the table. one of the things i frequently say, well, zerlina, many times when we talk about the police and the community we talk about them as two separate entities. but the community is the police and the police are the community. we're one and that includes our professional sports teams. those in the medical professions, those in education. we need everybody at this table to solve one of america's most critical, but most familiar problems. we know that racism has been the ghost in the room for 400 years. we know that it finds its way into all systems and we need everybody's help and support to deal with it. >> thank you, congresswoman val

demings. joining me now is john meacham author of "his truth is marching on." brittney cooper, author of "eloquent rage." thank you for being here this morning. >> my pleasure. >> thank you. >> so john, to you first and just ask about as a historian what your gut reaction was to this week seeing the president after four days of pomp and circumstance, you know, violating the hatch act all over the place, staging his acceptance speech at the white house. what is the significance of that historically? >> it's -- i hope it's our bottom. i hope we don't go any farther below that. it's a remarkable moment of blending the emblems and sanctity of governance with the business his -- necessary

business of partisan politics. and that -- those two things have been kept porously separate, but separate, for centuries. and basically, president trump predictably alas has confused his own personality. he has taken his own narcism and forced it to the center of the life of the nation and when you stand on the south lawn of the white house which is sacred ground in american life, and you make a partisan speech, you turn it -- you turn it into the republican event. you're mixing things that in a democracy that is tenuous, we're a very complicated and provisional experiment as you were just talking about in another context with congresswoman demings. we have to be eternally vigilant about making sure that the whole

is more important than the individual. that is the nation is more important than the temporary occupant of the white house. and what you saw this week was president trump once again weaponizing his own narcism. >> weaponizing his own narz acism. violating the hatch act it's not violating the norms but violating federal statute. or encouraging staffers to do so in the president's case. when you have on the one hand the president who's caging people he's claiming are violating laws, even though they're seeking asylum, who's encouraging brutal treatment of black people by police officers, even if they're not committing crimes. what's your reaction to the fact that you have the president

violating the law and then brutally treating black and brown people who he deems lawbreakers? >> look, president trump is a lawless person. we knew he was lawless before he had got into office. we had indicators that he had sexually assaulted women. people around him have gone to jail because they committed crimes on his behalf. he understands this job as basically a money grab to support the trump organization and his own individual pockets. part of the challenge we have as a nation is that a significant swath of americans still support donald trump. they support his vision of america. and that is rooted in racism. it is rooted in a desire for power at the expense of everyone who is black and brown. so what we have in this problem is a spiritual kind of tyranny

of the worst impulses as dr. meacham said. it's a spiritual problem, it's a problem of our own sort of moral crumbling happening in our faces. it's a question for us about whether we will continue to stand by and watch this happen or whether we will fight back. but the thing that irritates me about republicans is they scream and yell at black protesters about how we must respect the rule of law when the entire governance of the last four years has been all about a cruel mocking of the notion of a rule of law. >> i think that's such an important point. i want to pivot a bit towards what i think as black americans we're experiencing in the year 2020 which is grief and pain and loss. not just because of the covid-19 pandemic, not just because like every other year the police are shooting and killing black people in the street, but also because we just lost chadwick

boseman who played so many memorable characters including black panther. i wanted to ask you for your reflection on the pain and grief that the black americans are in and as the pillars of the democracy are seemingly crumbling. >> yeah. chadwick boseman was our shining star and, you know, he was a superhero. not just in the movies, but in his life. in his fight against cancer. the ability to have a black superhero character at the movies in 2018 gave black folks so much joy. it was -- "black panther" really brought together our relationship to the african diaspora to our roots and the places we were rich from and brought here and it staged an

important cultural conversation and did it with a beautiful representation of black life. he was an amazing actor. he was a fellow alum of howard university. i'm super proud of that. we are deeply, deeply grieving today because these representations they don't ju just -- they're not just movies for us. when there's a cultural project that denies the black community all the way, and when our lives are unworthy of protection or care to see ourselves -- it becomes an experience of heightened importance. so "black panther" was not just a movie. all of the roles were not just movies but they affirmed the depths of our humanity. part of what it feels like in 2020 is that we are losing the people that help us fight again because they show the best of us.

and, you know, black people need a break. we need a break. we deserve a break. we fight for this democracy more than most people fight for it every day. we believe in the american project. so much more than the citizens that we see on the right and frankly i think many black americans are overwhelmed and devastated today. and, you know, i hope that -- i hope that our country learns as doc rivers said to love us with half of the love we have it and i hope we can fight for a world that black life is not cut short because of the many health challenges that beset us. i send my love to his family and all of us in black america who mourn today. >> thank you so much, brittney cooper. i think so many of us out there relate to everything you just said in terms of the pain that we feel as american citizens.

and i also want to thank jon meacham for joining us this morning. >> thank you. coming up, the dangerous consequences of reckless presidential rhetoric. that's next. et. secret stops sweat 3x more than ordinary antiperspirants. with secret, you're unstoppable. no sweat! try it and love it or get your money back.

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a very common refrain that i was asked was does the president's rhetoric make your job harder and the answer is yes. the president's actions and his language are in fact racist. things like there are good people on both sides or send them back where they came from. those words gave permission to white supremacists to think that what they were doing was permissible. and i do think that the president's divisive language is indirectly tied to the attacks we have seen in the last two years. >> elizabeth newman is a former homeland security official under trump who this week endorsed joe biden connecting trump's

rhetoric directly to acts of white supremacist violence. the same week a 17-year-old vigilante and trump support took to the streets of kenosha, wisconsin, with a military style rifle amid black lives matter protests and shot three people, killing two of them. his attorney said he was acting in self-defense. to be clear, there are no overt links between the shooter and white supremacist groups or militias and the two victims both appear to be white. but this isn't the first time a mass shooter's actions seem to line up with the president's rhetoric. like the shooter in el paso who echoed trump's language about an invasion of migrants or the shooter in christchurch, new zealand, who praised trump as a symbol of white identity before killing 49 people at two mosques. joining me now is elizabeth newman, former homeland security assistant in the trump administration. and malcolm nance, author of

"the plot to betray america." thank you both for being here today. elizabeth, i want to go to you first because you said something that i think is really interesting to unpack. about the president's rhetoric and how it is tied or connected in any way to violence that we are actually seeing in the real world. from your experience in the department of homeland security, do you see a link between what the president is saying and what vigilantes and white what it supremacists are doing in real life? >> absolutely. his rhetoric is giving permission for ideas and groups that had previously been hiding under a rock somewhere to come out and be in full force and that -- what that does is it creates opportunities for the small, small percentage of the population that would possibly

consider carrying out an act of violence, the more you make his rhetoric mainstream the more likely you can recruit those individuals that would then carry out that act of violence. so it's almost you're expanding the pool of potential, vulnerable people and then adding fuel to the fire, creating more fear, creating -- these usually are scared people. they have been scared about something. wrongly scared, you know? people coming into our country who are desperate and in need and seeking asylum, these are not people to be fearful of, but the president has told them to be fearful of and he gives example after example and that creates in certain individuals the need to go and protect. that's that vigilanteism and unfortunately he's -- his rhetoric is adding fuel to the fire and we have more and more examples of people trying to take the matter into their own

hands with devastating consequences. >> absolutely. malcolm, in your book, "the plot to destroy democracy" rise of w nationalism and white supremacist violence to authoritarianism and what russia is actually doing across europe and here in the united states. how do you see the significance of their actions and their influence on the rise of white nationalism in the united states in the trump era? >> well, it's a fascinating subject, but, you know, people always say that we're talking russia russia russia. that's because behind a lot of what we're seeing, there is the -- you know, the shadowy hand of russia, but not in the direct way that some of the pundits may want to think that we're going overboard with. al russia over the last -- since the end of the soviet union, has been turned into an

authoritarian state with a dictator like ruler who understood the strategic goals of the soviet union and dismantling american democracy and also using their money to co-op these democracies. they didn't start in the united states. they started in europe by funding conservative right wing, anti-immigrant racist and essentially fascist political parties in an effort to overturn the democratic order in europe. they're being quite successful and the united states is the last of the major countries that russia made this effort with. they didn't start with donald trump. but they started with the nra by sending influence agents in to there and they were successful. the evangelicals and the alt-right. david duke has an apartment in moscow. richard spencer's wife was the translator for putin's philosopher who believes that western democracy needs to end. so all of these fingers are

intertwined to a certain extent but where does that lead to the young 17-year-old killing people in the streets and you have to understand the leader of the united states is no longer hiding -- no longer hiding the -- his hatred of the other in the brown, so things that timothy mcveigh when he blew up the oklahoma city building back in the '80s would never have said out loud is being said out loud from the podium of the without. so not only are they getting permissions but a political structure is saying that they are the minority and they must fight to keep their world. donald trump pushes this world view. >> in terms of the views of the other folks in the administration, obviously, i think up we can say -- we have an idea of what donald trump thinks about black and brown communities based on the things

that he says about them. but elizabeth, one of the things that you have said recently that stuck out to me is the fact that there may be folks inside of the administration, folks that you may have come into contact with, people in the white house frankly who have either -- you know, connections or associations with white nationalism or at least that world view. do you think that there are people who identify, at least self-identify as white nationalists inside of the administration? >> i do. and it's really hard to -- you know, to provide a factual face for it. it's more the evidence of the policies and the actions and some really good journalism that's dug up some interesting emails. let's be clear. i think the majority of the people that are working for the president are not white nationalists. they have their reasons for supporting -- many of them are

like me they felt called to do what they could with their expertise to keep the country safe. and another time, another day we can debate if that was the right call or not, but the majority of the people that are serving are trying to do the right thing and hold the government together. but there are a small number of them that over time i came to realize, this was intentional. they are holding a world view that it's both for political power as malcolm just so articulately described that some of this is just about how do you get the vote. and then some of it's an actual world view that they don't believe that -- or they believe if they don't stop things now that people no longer will be a -- we'll no longer be a white nation. it's mind boggling to me because it never dawned on me as a republican or a conservative that that's something to be concerned about, and apparently it's a really big deal and is

striking a chord. that's why i'm speaking out. i want the white people and the evangelicals to see how evil it is and on its face it might seem like something you'd support as a conservative, but when you dig underneath it's disgusting and we need to call it out. while -- well, i need to say one thing. i listened to your previous segment about -- what ms. cooper was saying, oh, my goodness, that moved me to tears. she is absolutely right and that's the other reason i'm speaking out. my faith says injustice deserves to be countered and for far too long the black community, the jewish community, has been attacked for many, many reasons millennia really and i thought, you know five years ago, our country had moved past this. clearly it has not.

the last five years because of what has happened and i want to do whatever i can to help other people that used to have the views that -- or have the views that i used to hold understand that we have to -- we have to hear our brothers and sisters in the black community and what injustice they continue to face today. it is wrong, that is not what america is about. nobody should have to walk through the street and feel unsafe. nobody should feel unsafe going to their synagogue or mosque or their church. that's not who we are as a people and we can do better and that's part of the reason i'm speaking out. >> i think it's really important that folks like you from inside of the administration are coming out to speak their truth beca e because, you know, i think oftentimes those of us in the outside we're like, well, why are they staying? don't they -- do they agree, not agree? but it's important to see folks come out and with the moral clarity that you have to speak

to these important issues because again to malcolm's point it's dangerous, it's not just insulting. it's dangerous for our nation's security. thank you, elizabeth newman and malcolm nance for joining me this morning. more "a.m. joy" after this break. this morning more "a.m. joy" after this break. kids love me. i'm what they dream of. i'm a horse, but cuter. i'm a horse, but magical. pizza on a bagel-we can all agree with that. you're like a party rental.

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as much as people are like make america great again, you can always do better. i can always be a better actor. i can always be a better person. so america has never opinion as great as it should be. and so, you know, i don't feel like i'm tired of talking about it if it's not done. it has to be done. it has to be fixed. >> yeah. >> when chadwick boseman joined "a.m. joy" back in 2017, the world had no idea he had already been diagnosed with colon cancer.

the star of "black panther" died from the disease last night at the age of 43. he never spoke publicly about the illness and according to his twitter account, he endured countless surgeries and chemotherapy. all while starring in the biggest movies of his career. before bringing "black panther" to life, he portrayed thurgood marshall and jackie robinson in "42." and james brown in "get on up." joe biden said the true power of bozeman was bigger than anything we saw on screen. he showed the generations that they can be anything they want. even superheroes. he knew that black panther was more than just a movie. during a promotional tour for the film in 2018, he told sirius xm about two young cancer patients who were eagerly

awaiting "black panther" but died before getting a chance to see it. >> just to experience those two little boys' anticipation of this movie and when i found out that they -- >> take your time with it. >> yeah. it's -- it means a lot.

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ladies and gentlemen, according to new hampshire executive order 63, please wear your masks. >> trump's new hampshire fans' defiance towards we wearing masks looked as dangerous as charlotte, north carolina, earlier this week. when four people, two staffers and two attendees tested positive and were sent home.

that was overshadowed by 1,500 people trump hosted on thursday night. packed closely together with little or no social distancing or masks. joining me is lori garrett, she's the author of "the coming plague." good morning, lori. i'm so happy to chat with you again. >> hi, zerlina. >> so my first question is as a scientist, you have been, you know, pretty much predicting everything that is happening correctly. and certainly in your book you predicted many of the things we are seeing in this pandemic. and when you see large gatherings you just sort of have to wait for a couple of weeks. so what do you expect to happen as a result of the large gatherings that we saw yesterday and all throughout the republican convention? >> well, let's back up one

second here. i get on twitter and social media, i see a lot of complaints that liberal media quote/unquote is putting more attention to republican gatherings that are not wearing masks or motorcycle gatherings and nascar and what have you than they are to protesters in the streets related to black lives matter and the killings of african-american men. and that one side gets denounced for not wearing masks and the other side doesn't. let me be clear about a couple of things. first of all, everybody should be wearing masks out in public, full stop, period. i don't care what political party, why you're outside. that's it. the second is there's a big difference between the risk potential if you're seated shoulder to shoulder with people on either side of you and none of you are wearing masks. that's a recipe for rapid

spread, especially if it's an agitated group. there's cheering, there's, yay, all of these things that are more likely to propel virus from one person to another in the air. it's quite different if you're out scattered -- there's distances of 10, 12 feet wean people. that doesn't mean that everything is a zero risk event. i'm certainly not going to say it's okay for people who are in protests to go unmasked. it is interesting, however, if you contrast the march yesterday to the original martin luther king "i have a dream" speech, most of the people in the crowd and on the stage were masked and there were mask inspections done at check point as people went into the washington mall. this comes just the day after the white house convenes the

republican national convention without masks. >> it feels to me to your point that, you know, there is a directive from the democratic party or at least certain sections of the american population where they are totally taking the advice of the science, they understand the reasoning for the masks and you have another portion of the electorate that is defiant of all of the directives and doesn't believe that, you know, the science says what it does. in terms of as we move forward, we as a nation we have to be coordinated, don't we, in order for any strategy -- science based strategy to be effective. >> obviously we need a national set of policies. uniform, standardized with strict recommendations issued so that people know what to do. but the credibility of most of our major institutions has been

undermined. people don't believe anything coming from the centers for disease control anymore after it it's reversed the positions on testing. and people don't know what to believe about the convalescent plasma therapies, whether they should be used or not used. people are losing confidence in the national institutes of health because it has reversed its position on whether or not zoonotic transmission events should be studied. it's hideous and let me tell you, i just published today in foreign policy, people might want to look online, an analysis of what happened with the postal service fight. this whole issue of the diminishing of the postal service, tearing it down, limiting how many sorting machines are operable, how many

people are being paid overtime to get out and deliver the mail it has been focused on as if it were solely a giant suppress the vote conspiracy campaign. but the real story i think is that this was planned more than two years ago. it was published by the white house, there for people to see, and yet nowhere in the and not dejoy took over as postmaster and initiated this rapid series of events executing the 2-year-old plan no one did anybody ask, how many americans are dependent on the postal service for their drugs and medicines? how many are dependent on the postal service for their social security checks, child support payments, everything that keeps them alive and healthy with food on the table. more than a million americans have had their mail severely impaired and this puts people's

lives at risk. so we have a whole series of actions related to covid directly and indirectly. that say, government is losing credibility. it's not doing its basic job. the postal service is part of the constitution. if there's anything that america believes in it's the united states postal service. >> absolutely. i think that was an important piece connecting the other aspects of the usps crisis. it's not about the pandemic to your point, but there are other needs met by the postal service as as we head into the election we'll keep an eye on the access to the mail-in balloting process because many people are not doing to be able to go in person and we want a mechanician for them to vote.

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america has no king. america needs no king and the majority of us will fight your attempted takeover. don't start measuring the drapes for your dynasty. we're going to want our white

house back. >> good morning. welcome back to "am joy." i'm zerlina maxwell. while outwardly praising the white house and its history, he used it as a backdrop for his own politic al propaganda. he greeted his guests from the white house balcony right before he gave a speech riddled with misinformation, lies and fear mongering and multiple distortions of his record. any evidence the country is in the middle of a global pan ddem was practically absent, as the 1,500 attendees sat just inches apart, with few masks to be seen, risking their health wrust to hear president donald trump speak. trump's speech marked the first time any u.s. president has used the white house in such a way. not only was it egregious, many argue it was illegal as the hatch act prohibits federal

employees with the exception of the president and vice president, from engaging in political activity on federal property. trump's constant desire for adoration and extravagance even at the expense of core american values was given a little more color on friday. in new tapes exclusively released to the reid out, from trump's own sister, mary ann trump barry. >> then you get donald who won't do anything for anybody, it's going to be inure to his -- i me mean, he won't do any -- publicly. i mean, if you -- anything he did, he says "look what i've done." aren't i wonderful? and he's as tight as a duck's ass, just like dad was, really. >> joining me now, former white house communications director

anthony scaramucci, and author of "inhinged," omarosa, and randall pickett. author of "black faces in white places" which i need to read clearly. i want to if to the much, which i didn't think i wb able to say. people who are related to trump who are telling us the truth about trump. how much is there a disconnect between what people who work for trump say behind the scenes and what they really -- what they

say about him in public and what they say about him behind the scenes? >> zerlena, thank you. shout out to my colleague, omarosa. >> hey, mucc. >> they say one thing in public and snicker behind the scenes. then they go to journalists and try to tell the journalists, i'm here to save america. that's why i'm here. that's not really why they're there. they're there because of the personal power. by the way, it is intoxicating, zerlina. i was there. i saw it. at some point have you to make a decision, are you going to clutch your family and keep your personal integrity and not disavow your life story, or are you going to support this guy? >> that's such an important point. omarosa, you left the administration well before the pandemic. as we sit here in the middle of

covid-19 that's disproportionately affected black and brown people, i cannot imagine defending the president on his covid response or saying that, you know, everything is going fine as we see such horrible numbers in terms of the cases and deaths. why do you think it is that even during covid-19 so many staff members are willingly defending and supporting the president to this day? >> first of all, zerlina, great to see you in that chair. you wear it well. hello, mucc, hey, randall, tim. it's important that you understand that there are people who are serving in the white house who truly see it as an honor to serve their country, but there are also a lot of people in the white house, as i mentioned in "unhinged" who are extremely concerned and also know if they leave, the guard wells are gone, no one is there to monitor what's happening on the inside. the problem is that the president has done so much damage to this country at this

point that if these people don't speak up, someone will look back and say who is accountable for allowing this to happen? that's why, zerlina, you have so many people who are willing to speak up and speak out at this time. >> tim, you've spent so much time with the president in the past and, obviously, you're not on his good side currently. but i feel like, you know, what we saw this week really was an insight into his personality, you know, what makes him tick. all of us are sitting at home in quarantine. and so we can't go outside or really look around and say, everything is going well. you know, it couldn't be better. yet the republican convention created an alternate reality for donald trump to make him feel good about himself. why are people so willing to go along with that, despite the fact that it contradicts so clearly with reality?

and what does the republican convention say about donald trump's personality? >> none of this is news, zerlina. donald trump has spent 70 years created alternate realities around him. he is not a good businessman, he is not intelligent. he is a deep seated racist. he has been spinning alternate realities about who he is for decades. what's unusual now is that performance art bled into his family members and then it bled into his cabinet and the white house. and now it's clearly taken hold within the party itself. and the danger in all of this is that if institutions and other pivotal forces in our society don't stand up to that, trump

continues to get away with it. and the rnc was all of that on steroids. he has used, you know, recently gettysburg and mt. rush more as stage props to serve as his cult of personality. this week you say the willingness to use the american flag and the white house as stage props while the trump family openly breaks the law and tries to spin donald trump's career and performance just in the last six months against a set of very brutal realities. 192,000 americans are dead from covid-19, 16 million americans are unemployed. donald trump's economy now is underperforming every democrat since john kennedy, and most republicans, except the bushes. so it's an issue whether or not the folks who have enabled him and empower him still continue

to go along with him. >> absolutely. randall, one of the thing we saw in the convention this week is a lot of black men. we saw black men, former nfl players, people who work inside the administration essentially saying that they support donald trump. he's not a racist. all the people who claim that are wrong. you have worked upclose with donald trump. why do you think it is that certain black men were willing to go along with this? maybe because of the businessman experience, to tim's point. and what does it say that he was trying to utilize these black men to reach out, i think, to the black vote. but i'm curious your thoughts. >> great to see you in the chair, zerlina. the parade iing of black people, again, nothing new. piggybacking off of tim's comments. but only when it's convenient to

donald. we're living in this moment of racial reckoning, which you talked about earlier in the show. this juxtaposition in donald's mind. on one hand he wants to appeal to the black community. we heard him say in his speech twice that he has done more than any president since lincoln and he has done more than joe biden in the past four years. we know where that's going. and so the other part is, who can i put forward that can help to give some legitimacy to this message that has absolutely no legitimacy? i know they had to look far and wide to find anyone black to stand up and articulate a position in support of donald. and, again, it is a convenience. i certainly believe we would see these people forward in an election year. i don't think we saw them before the election year and we probably won't see them again after the election year, but particularly in this moment when we need leadership and donald is lacking in the capacity and

empathy to give us that leadership, the only life raft he can reach for are those few back people that he can stand up and say i support donald trump and we know they're few and far between. >> to that point, omarosa, do you think that donald trump is utilizing these people to stand up on his behalf to get black voters? >> of course. >> or make white supporters who support him to feel okay about it? >> i want it say that was a very big strategy in 2016, was going after african-american men. 13% of african-american men voted for donald trump in 2016 and so strategically, they did go after athletes and other high-profile african-american male figures in order to try to entice more african-american men. they've completed counted out black women. they know black women will be

loyal to the democratic base. but i will say that the images of black men is not by accident. they specifically are targeting black men who are completely turned off by the democratic party and so donald thinks that he can whoo them to his camp an niece his support from 13 to 16%. >> now you have black men in all of professional sports standing up to donald trump. the mucc, i want to go back to you with a question about trump's mindset. the republican convention was a trip because, you know, we know what's happening in the world and yet that's not what we saw this week at the convention. in terms of why that was the message, does donald trump really believe that he's doing a great job on covid-19, even though there are 180,000 people dead? does he not care that those people are dead? what's your take on why the

message needed to be so positive in terms of what it said about his performance as president. >> listen, let's take tim's comment. reality distortion and say that is a totally valid thing about the president. so what i have found is that there's a michael cohen axiom. when you hit him with crystal clear clarity and truth, and i was on a show the other night. i said you've got 180,000 dead, 200,000 to 300,000 dead by december. he has destroyed the economy. we've got 31 million people unemployed. he goes bonkers and starts firing tweets at you which, of course, he did, and i get an extra 50,000 twitter followers. the point i'm making is that this is what we have to do to beat him. you have to fire at him with crystal clear clarity of what is going on. you can ask tim o'brien, omarosa, or randall, he will start to unspool like those old

typewriter ribbons. we can do that but we have to hit him very hard right now. >> in terms of hitting donald trump, some of the things i remember in my work on the clinton campaign, we tried to make it very clear to people that, you know, while he put himself out there as a successful businessman, he wasn't really that successful. he had a number of failures and bankruptcies. he was sued for fraud, in the trump university case. tim, in terms of the persona that he is this great businessman, how does he continue to get away with that narrative when there's so much evidence to the contrary? >> i think voters tend to have emotional relationships to the people they support. and they will overlook the facts behind a candidate to a certain extent. you see this with evangelical christians who continue to support trump even though he doesn't go to church, doesn't read the bible and is about the

farthest thing from a christian you can imagine. he has been predatory around women. yet there's still large segments of republican women who support him. obviously, people of color, he's a horror show. the republican party is at a crossroads right now with trump. what they're doing right now is relying on their base and servicing the needs, the emotional needs of their base without expanding into independence and other parts of the electorate that they're going to need to win. and the strategy that they have right now is a cult of personality strategy. it's presenting trump as this mesionic figure who will solve people's problems by waving his wand even though in front of all of this we have a pandemic and an economy in crisis. and trump is completely not up to this moment. i think most of the electorate understands that. the challenge trump and the gop are going to have is that they

have so coddled their base in the most chaotic and divisive impulses of their base that it's going to be very hard for them to take this across the finish line this time around, i think. >> yeah. i think that's such an important point. randall, last question to you. i want to get your take on when you're up close to donald trump and you are a black person, i think, you know, there are folks that anecdotally say he is pretty charming or if he likes you, he treats you differently than whole swaths of demographic groups that he has negative rhetoric towards. in terms of getting people to understand that, you know, his rhetoric and policies really go in tandem, what are your thoughts on how we can break through, you know, some of the narratives that he is trying to spin to better inform the american people about his record and about his treatment of black people, frankly?

>> well, i think we just need to look at his track record. four years ago, people were voting for donald on possibilities. now we have to vote on donald on performance, or lack thereof. when we look at his track record on black people, we look at his treatment of black people, we look at his racism toward black people, the jury and the verdict should be clear. but if you don't believe that, look to his family. look to those, like me, omarosa, mucc, tim, who have been at close range. ask his sister or his niece what they think. they tell you he's an egomaniac. they tell you he cannot be trusted. they tell you donald is all about donald. we're telling you the same thing. maya angelou said if people show you who they are, believe them. if people show you who they are, and their family tell you who they are, believe them both. >> absolutely. i hear that. thank you. this has been a great panel.

i love the insights you all can provide from being right upclose to donald trump. it's not even speculation. it's your real experience. thank you, anthony scaramucca, omarosa, tim o'brien and randall pickett. coming up, the biden campaign goes on offense. that's next. campaign goes on offense that's next.

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you know, he's rooting for more violence, not less. he's clear about that. what's he doing? pouring gasoline on the fire. this happens to be donald trump's america, donald trump's america. >> joe biden made a surprise appearance with andrea mitchell on msnbc on thursday, after she had been requesting an interview with him for more than a year. noteworthy behavior from someone who has been criticized from being absent from the campaign trail. also noteworthy, biden plans to

start visiting key swing states like wisconsin and pennsylvania in person after labor day. joining me senior adviser to the biden campaign and author of "no, you shut up." thank you so much and good morning to you, simone. >> thank you, zerlina. thanks for having me. >> my first question, we're on the heels of the republican convention. the democrats had their turn last week. as you compare the message and the messaging in those conventions, where do you see the state of the race at this point? >> well, look, zerlina, we heard a lot from the republicans last week at their convention. what we didn't hear any mention of the 180,000 americans who have died from covid-19. i heard no mention of the nearly 6 million cases of coronavirus. i heard no empathy, sympathy or apologies to the business owners

across this country in rural places and urban centers who have had to shouudd. r their businesses due to the economic devastation. we heard breonna taylor's name, but nothing about justice to those who lost their lives at the hands of police officers in this country. we heard no plan. the contrast between the republican convention and the democrats the week before is not only do joe biden and kamala harris have a plan, we told you about it, and we are speaking directly to the american people in the reality that they're currently living in. what we saw during the republican national convention was an alternative reality. earth two is what i think folks are referring to it as. >> seems they were very much ignoring the last six months, talking about all the jobs that have been created during the

trump administration which, of course, was true up until march. in terms of joe biden and kamala harris' plans to address the economic collapse, what are some of the first steps a biden/harris administration would take to rectify and really put the american economy back on track? >> so, vice president biden really laid out his economic plan, if you will, over the course of the month. it's called the build back better plan. it is his and kamala harris' plan for working families, for all people in this country that not only addresses the economic devastation of the public health crisis that we are experiencing due to covid-19, but we know that donald trump had squandered the economy that the obama/biden administration left him long before covid hit so there are issues there as well. this plan builds on clean energy economy and builds -- actually has an infrastructure plan. the trump administration is still talking about infrastructure. it creates good union paying

jobs. we have a buy american plan, making sure that the future is made in not just america but all of america so never again as we know in the early onset of this pandemic, we are waiting on china to get us the resources, the ppe that we needed. joe biden and kamala harris have a plan to ensure that americans are resilient. not america alone but we are resilient. those are a few of the top lines. zerlina, the republicans keep talking about how they didn't hear anything about our plans and our policies and vice president biden's agenda during our convention. vice president biden has been making a forceful case for his candidacy from the beginning of this election, but absolutely since he has locked up the nomination. what we have yet to hear from donald trump is his plan. why the american people should re-elect him. we're in the midst of a global pandemic. nearly 6 million people have been infected with coronavirus.

16 million people are out of work. that doesn't sound like give me for more years resume to me. >> we're in the middle of a racial reckoning. and we've seen persistent protests all summer and again now throughout the united states and around the world because of police killings and brutality against black bodies. in terms of joe biden's record on criminal justice and race issues, obviously there has been criticism because of the 1994 crime bill. what is the biden/harris campaign and hypothetical administration, what are their plans to, one, address some of the concerns that communities of color and allies have about that record and what are their plans to improve the relationship between communities and the police and to hold police officers accountable when they

are brutalizing those communities? >> well, look, zerlina, we would argue there is not a better dynamic duo in joe biden and kamala harris to truly address the four crises america is dealing with in this moment, racial injustice, reckoning of race, public health crises and a climate crisis. there's not a better duo to address these than kamala harris as she was a prosecutor. she knows what it's like to have to go into the system, from the inside out, but also joe biden, who left a good law firm to be a public defender and, yes, he authored the 1994 crime bill. there were good things in that crime bill and there were some not good things. i'll tell you what was in there, ban on assault rifles and violence against women's act. to hold the police department accountable, biden/harris administration would build on that work, which would ensure

that the department of justice has the resources that it needs to adequately meet justice for folks across this country, but it would also ensure that we are moving our criminal justice system from reform to -- that we're really reforming the criminal justice system so we're preventing things on the front end. joe biden and kamala harris don't believe anyone should be in jail for drug offenses only. they believe that marijuana should be decriminalized and folks with marijuana convictions should have those automatically expunged. there's real work we can do to address, yes, police reform. many folks in law enforcement across the country also want the reform. it's not just police reform and criminal justice reform. if we only address that piece, we are only tuxing part of the problem. that is why the biden/harris build back better plan is -- their economic agenda is a critical piece of this

affliction. >> i think that, you know, we were talking earlier in the show about the pain that communities of color are in and related to the issues as you just outlined but also because of the passing of chadwick boseman. former president barack obama said this about chadwhich can boseman. to be young, gifted and black, to use that power to give them heroes to look up to, to do it all while in pain. what a use of his years. we also mentioned vice president joe biden had eloquent words for the passing of chadwick boseman. can you reflect on what it feels like in this moment as we experienced so much grief at once. >> 2020 has been a hell of a year, as someone put it on my twitter feed. there is so much that is happening. chadwick boseman was a hero to

so many people. physical embodiment of black children all over the world really, looking up and able to see themselves as a superhero. something that is all too rare, but should become more common. i would argue that vice president biden has said a number of times throughout this last year and a half that lots of people are grieving, but we have to turn our pain into purpose. that's what he has done. unfortunately joe biden and kamala harris are not strangers to grief but in this moment, this moment demands we do what chadwick boseman did, and go on through the hurt and the pain. and what this campaign is setting out to do is meet the american people where they are. we're listening but we want them to know that the pain and grief folks are experiencing across this country right now due to

the various crises, particularly the crisis of covid-19, it did not have to be this way. 180,000 people did not have to die from this virus. 16 million people do not currently have to be out of work. to be clear, the reason it is like this is because the current president of the united states did not know what he is doing but most egregiously, he has demonstrated a sheer unwillingness to rise to the level to address these issues for the american people. but i will tell you, joe biden and kamala harris, they are here and they are ready to work. >> thank you, symone sanders, for being here this morning. >> thank you so much, zerlina. love this! >> thank you. good to see you, too, symone. thank you so much. next up, the wnba leads the push for social justice again. l push for social justice again. don't just think about where you're headed this summer.

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this isn't just about

basketball. we aren't just basketball players. and just because we're basketball players doesn't mean that's our only platform. when most of us go home we are still black in the sense that our families matter. >> professional athletes across the country refused to play their scheduled games this week as an act of solidarity and protests after a police officer shot another black man, jacob blake, in kenosha, which isconsn wednesday. while it's rightly being called historic, the walk out, it is the wnba that has dedicated its entire season to social justice and fighting police brutality. games have now resumed for both the nba and wnba. joining me now is a guard for the washington mystics, aeriel atkins. thank you for being here this morning. >> for sure. thank you for having me. >> i want to start out by talking about, really, how the

wnba has been outfront and much more vocal and aggressive, frankly, than the nba. the wnba dedicated their entire season to say her name and black lives matter. do you think that the nba choosing not to play is really a cultural tipping point in terms of momentum towards the goals that you and the wnba are trying to reach? >> i think, absolutely. i think, like i said earlier, it looks different when it becomes a collective unit, when we do things together. but for them to have been supporting us as we have. brought to a lot of people's attention of trying to put breonna taylor's name on the back of our shirts.

the nba announced it first but mccautry brought that up. >> what do you say to people who tell athletes to shut up and dribble or play sports. one of the athletes said we're people, we're moms, daughters, sons. what do people need to know about the fact that you're not just an athlete, you're a black woman who lives in the united states. why can't we make that connection? and how do you think we should go about trying to get people clear on that and understand that better? >> yeah. well, i think that's tough. i don't think it's our job to explain to people that we are humans, first and foremost. when people see us, like you said, we're black humans, for one. and we have mothers in this league, daughters. we're sisters. we're humans. and i don't think that should be overlooked. just because we play basketball doesn't mean that's the only thing we're capable of doing in this world. >> absolutely. and in terms of, you know, the

idea that black athletes are, you know -- their job is to play a sport, to entertain. and in this particular moment we're in the middle of a global pandemic. police are still killing black people, black men and women in the streets. and so it felt like a necessary pause. did you -- was the goal of the stoppage of play and the strike by the players to essentially send a message to the powers that be that, you know, we're not going to play basketball when the whole country can't get its, you know, stuff together. >> right. i think a lot of people thought, oh, you guys aren't going to play one game. what good is that going to do? we understand that we're not going to solve the problems that this country has had for a very long time in one night, you know. but we wanted to send that collective message and show people that we get to choose. we get to choose what we play,

what we don't play and we also get to choose what we support and what we stand for. you don't get to tell us what to do and all the time. i do understand, you know, this is our job. and i do appreciate it and i'm thankful for it. at the end of the day it kind of felt like it was a moment where we had to choose, you know, our people in a sensor our community over a game. and it just didn't feel right that day. it doesn't feel right all the time but we also understand that the women, we're possibly more visible when we do play. we're different from the nba. we don't have the same, i guess you could say, viewership. so we do understand there are things that we do have to do. but on some days, we will have to do what we have to do. >> absolutely. thank you, ariel atkins, for joining us this morning. >> thank you so much. up next -- thank you. up next, john dean joins me to talk about his brand new book,

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the fact is, i'm here. what's the name of that building? but i'll say it differently. the fact is that we're here and

they're not. >> this week, donald trump, took us down the authoritarian rabbit hole while using the white house, the people's house while accepting the republican party's nomination. my next guest says trump will make even retch ard nixon look like a choir boy. author of the new book "authoritarian nightmare: truch and his followers." thank you so much for being here. i am dying to talk to you. >> likewise. i noticed on twitter, we've been following each other for over a decade. >> yes! i know. i've read several of your books, and the first question i have is actually related to your book "conservatives without conscience." in that book, you describe the threat of a potential authoritarian leader in the conservative movement, but this

book actually talks about the people who follow that leader. so, can you speak to the distinction between the tendencies of an authoritarian leader and the qualities in the followers of that leader? >> they're different personality types called social dominators of the leader types and people who don't want equality. they have dominating personalities. they're desire oous of personal power and they're amoral. we've had a few presidents, maybe four, including trump, andrew jackson, woodrow wilson, richard nixon and now donald trump, who really fit that definition. now you don't go very far as a demagogue unless you have followers. that's the mass of the people. they're a little bit more complex. they've been studied much longer, about four, five decades

now. that's the focus of this new book of mine where we look at the followers and try to understand who they are because there's a lot of science on them, and it's very telling. and you can't defeat them if you don't understand them. >> so tell us about what they're like. why is it? we ask the question all the time about trump's base and why they stick with him, you know, through thick and thin. that was precovid. i think post covid, people are really wondering what it is about donald trump that keeps his followers coming back and back and back when reality is that 180,000 americans have died on his watch. >> the key criteria in social science to identify these people is they're submissive to an authority figure of some sort, and then they're aggressive on behalf of that authority figure.

they're very conventional in their lifestyle. they then tend to have many, many other traits. they could be highly religious. most fascinating, for example, is they can hold inconsistent positions. they have no real critical thinking skills. they compartmentalize their various beliefs and understandings of the world. so they're unique. that's why somebody like trump, who can -- he hasn't studied this science to understand them. he intuitively knows what gets them. he knows they're frightened. he knows that they are highly prejudiced people. that's why we're getting this fear and loathing on his campaign this time out. there was a lot of it in 2016 as well. but he understands who they are now. he's going to go after them with a lot of this fear talk about law and order as he wants to describe it. very nixonian. >> definitely nixonian.

i want to ask you about that as well. i'm curious if you think, as a follow-up, if there's any message or any chance to take, you know, folks from the president's base and pull them out. is there any hope in reaching these folks? >> there is a small chance. the only way to be sure to defeat them, and they're going to be around after he's gone, regardless of what happens to trump. they're going to be looking for the next leader. they've now migrated into the republican party ranks or independents that lean republican. they will be around for a long time. and we'll have to deal with them in a lot of elections. that's why, again, it's important to understand them. can you reach a few? yes. there are some who, for example, when they're told how prejudice they are, they're not happy to know that. and they'll try to deal with it. but this is the exception. the social dominator types, the people who are would-be leaders,

they're proud of their prejudice. but what he has really done, he has gathered a coalition of maybe the most prejudiced american voters we've ever seen. and they're a force to reckon with. and the only way to really deal with them is going to be a tsunami election that puts them, if you will, out of any kind of popular vote or where their beliefs that are very undemocratic are tolerated by the vast majority. >> uh-huh. really quickly here, i want to get your reaction to what richard knicnixon would think a donald trump. obviously, people compare the two. what do you think richard nixon would say, watching donald trump as president? >> well, you know, they did have a little correspondence. it was long before trump was a political figure.

and i think nixon would have little for trump. there was the rule of law in nixon and i think he would be ashamed of him. >> i highly recommend all of john dean's books. it helps you really understand what's happening all around you. so, thank you for being here. >> thank you, and good luck in your new job. >> thank you. up next, martin luther king iii joins me live to talk about friday's huge protest in washington, 57 years after his father's iconic march. father's iconic march.

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well. but we're going to stand up, every black person in the united states is going to stand up. we're tired! i'm tired! >> thousands gathered friday for a rally, marking the 57th anniversary of the march on washington where dr. martin luther king jr. delivered his iconic "i have a dream" speech, a speech that still resonates today. joining me now is human rights leader martin luther king iii. thank you so much for being here this morning. i'm so honored to chat with you. >> thank you. >> increased awareness of the two systems of justice that jacob blake's father spoke to, in your view, what is the next step in this racial reckoning?

you know, there's activism. there's policy. there are many tenets of this. in your view, what is the most effective path that we should follow going forward? >> there are huge challenges we have to address. it is clear to me that, thus far, the policing structure does not seem to be yield iing obviously, people know we have to vote like we never voted before. we say that all the time but i don't know of an election that's as more important as this upcoming election because we need to change directions of

this country and at the executive level of the president. we're not going to get anything, much at all, if anything, out of this current administration and the way the senate is configured. we don't have the luxury of not participating. dad used to say one of the most important steps we need to take is that sure step to the ballot box. i will add one final dynamic. >> in terms of -- oh, sorry. >> no, no. >> go ahead, continue. >> i was just going to say one quick dynamic. there has been discussion about economic withdrawal. my father use that technique and his team and others. black people use that power and decide we're going to divest from someone or some of these corporations, they will help us

resolve these issues. i assure you, they will be resolved in a short period of time. >> one thing that i think people forget about is that the original march was for jobs. what you speak to in terms of communities of color who for so long have been left behind, how do we get the younger voters of color on board with the idea that voting is a prifl and something people sacrifice for? i'm sitting in front of a photo of my grandfather who marched in selma in the third march. and for me, voting has always been something that i'm aware that people died for my ability and right to do that. but, you know, certain people have voted and they're not seeing that economic opportunity

happen in any tangible way. how do we bridge that divide? >> one thing that i've encouraged for quite a while now, at 21 years old you go into college and you're an rotc, you become a commanding officer. you're actually in charge of 25 troops. you can lead at 21 in the united states military. why can't you run for city council, school board, why can't you run for county commissioner and state senate and state house? most of these jobs are part-time jobs. so when more young people are involved in the process who are leading, i believe more young people are going to participate in terms of helping get elected. in addition to marching, which is imminently important, we need to ask young people to offer themselves to provide leadership from those positions. they are talking about things that can't happen. they actually are leading, in

fact. when we look at the me too movement, we look at all of these different movements. it's getting involved and getting engaged. and when we see more young people at that level, i think we're going to see more young peop people. >> not just participating in protests but running for office themselves and, to your point, voting and making sure their voices are heard. thank you so much, martin luther king iii, for joining us this morning. >> thank you. that's our show for today. thank you so much for watching. more "am joy" tomorrow at 10:00 a.m. eastern. for now, stay tune for "weekends with alex witt" and fact check with washington post reporter glenn kessler. with washington post reporter glenn kessler.

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it's why, at xfinity, we're committed to helping kids keep learning through the summer. and help college students studying at home stay connected through our university program. we're providing affordable internet access to low income families through our internet essentials program. and this summer, xfinity is creating a virtual summer camp for kids at home- all on xfinity x1. we're committed to helping all families stay connected. learn more at xfinity.com/education. hey there, good day, everyone. welcome, everyone, to "weekends with alex witt." new reaction to the death of actor chadwick boseman. what we're learning about his quiet battle with cancer that lasted years. it's not just in kenosha. it's not just in d.c. protests a jacob blake.

separating fact from fiction at the rnc. glenn kessler of "the washington post" joins me for a fact check. backlog at the post office is bigger than what comes at christmas. the impact on mail-in voting ahead. we begin with what was a stunning and tragic loss after chadwick boseman who played jackie robnson, james brown and thoroughgood marshall before striving to fame as the black panther dies at just 43 years old. we take a look at his short but illustrious career. >> this morning, hollywood is grieving the loss of chadwick boseman, the star to played i n iconic figures from jackie robinson. >> give me a uniform, give me a number on my back, and i'll give you. >> and james