joe." >> he's a good reporter. >> good to see you this morning, my friend. he's a great reporter, as are you. you can sign up for the newsletter at signup.axios.com. that does it for me on this monday morning. i'm yasmin vossoughian. "morning joe" starts right now. good morning, and welcome to "morning joe." it is monday, august 31st. with us we have white house reporter for the associated press jonathan lemire. the host of msnbc's politics nation and president of the national action network, reverend al sharpton. columnist david ignatius and white house correspondent for pbs news hour, yamiche alcindor. >> i need to start with jonathan lemire. >> of course you do. >> another red sox victory, two in a row against the world

series champion. is it time to start fitting them for the world series rings, despite the fact they have the second-to-last worst record in baseball? i can feel those september breezes coming. going to push them over the finish line. >> joe, every four years we come out of the conventions wondering which candidate emerges with the big mo, it's the boston red sox, this time, joe. two straight wins against the nationals. the grounds crew clearing space for a banner, this october wondering which ex-red sox star will get the bigger ovation, at fenway park, there won't be any fans, mind you, but still go with us. this is it, this is a turning point. this is the impossible dream. >> like secretary going down the final stretch of the belmont in '73. these red sox are coming on, two

wins in a row. speaking of momentum, i do think that perhaps the president may have been a bit enraged yesterday morning after getting the ratings from his final night, but also the polling out of abc news, "the washington post," showing that boy, his approval rating actually went down. and joe biden's went up over the two conventions. >> well, his tweet storm showed he was reacting to something. we will get to the violence and unrest in portland in a moment but there is fresh new polling following both the democratic and republican national conventions showing president trump's favorability slipping while joe biden steadily climbs. in the latest poll, trump's favorability sits at 31%.

59% have an unfavorable opinion of the president. 46% hold a favorable view of biden, up six points since before the dnc. 40% have an unfavorable view of the former vice president. and when looking at president trump's handling of the coronavirus, 35% approve while 63% disapprove. who are the 35% is all i want to know. meanwhile, the latest morning consult polls show voters edging back. joe biden holds a six point lead over president trump, 50 to 44%. that's down from the ten point lead he held heading into the convention on august 23rd. but the latest usc dornsife on friday found biden at 53% to trump's 41%. a margin of 12 points.

so there you go. >> so jonathan lemire, a lot of people around the white house were thrilled with what happened during whatever you want to call last week's rnc events. the polls actually -- a couple of polls showing within the margins that things may have gotten better for the president. but if you look at the abc news "the washington post" approval poll, donald trump's approval ratings went down, joe biden's went up. and i think considerably. biden up 6 points and his unfavorability down 3 points. which is showing to me at least coming out of this convention the story seems to be -- and i would guess that people inside the white house would be thinking this too. and they may not admit it to the president. but it's got to be frustrating to them that despite the tens of millions of dollars in

unfavorable ads thrown at joe biden over the past six months, despite the fact the president even got impeached over trying to pull in a ukrainian leader and hold defense spending over him to try to besmerj the reputation of joe biden, biden's numbers just keep going up as far as approval rating goes. we'll have to start calling him teflon joe. >> joe, i think it is striking in the last few days, democrats i've talked to, perhaps you have the same experience, there seems to be a collective freakout among democrats since the republican convention ended suggesting this race was hurding trump's way, but the polling doesn't really back that up, at least not yet. some polls suggest perhaps slight movement towards the president. but remember joe biden walked into the conventions with a pretty substantial, and more

importantly stable lead. there hasn't been much that has happened since the onset of the pandemic and certainly since the aftermath of george floyd's killing and the walk across lafayette square that has changed the fundamentals of the race. yes, it has dipped and moved a little around the margins to this point. and both sides, privately, will acknowledge it has tightened somes, but both sides, privately and? some cases publically, acknowledge joe biden is winning. and remember, he has a four, five, six seven lead in all the battlegrounds, save north carolina. the white house was pleased with the staging of the events last week. we are still going to see the aftermath of that in the coming days. what we don't know is how the events of kenosha and portland are going to change things. we know the president is traveling to kenosha, wisconsin tomorrow. joe biden is going to speak on the unrest in america and how

president trump has added to that today in a speech in pennsylvania. and his aides are working on their own visit to wisconsin potentially later this week. right now the race remains the same. it's on now as they say. joe biden is resuming his campaigning. the president and his team are pleased about that. they feel they pushed biden out of his basement sooner than they wanted. they feel the more he's out of the basement could lead to a gaffe that could close the race. maybe it's closed slightly but joe biden is in the enviable position two months out. he's winning. >> here we are moving into september, things are plretty much the same. please correct me if i'm wrong, it seems the only thirng that's changed if you look at polling since two weeks of conventions is donald trump's approval rating ticked down slightly and

joe biden's went up a bit, he's sitting at 45, 46% approval rating. those disapproving of him went down three points. >> clearly joe biden rising with approval and the president coming down is bad news for the white house no matter how they spin it. they're now playing this, we're in survival mode. trying to spin it as if this is some advancement. the thing that i observed, joe, over the weekend, we had the big march in washington friday, which was probably the biggest civil rights march in the last several years. the energy, re remember we had this on a work day in the middle of a pandemic. so remember for people to come out is a signal to the white house that people are energized to come out and vote. they will come out and stand up and did it peacefully because the tone is set at the top, not one incident with several

hundred thousands people there, and you have no problems, no incidents, and people ready to come and stay out all day. that's a signal what they will do election day. so if i was the white house between the polling and the turnouts i think i would be very concerned because it shows a determination against this kind of divisive hate filled a atmosphere that this president has established. >> yamiche, any ideas that the white house -- why the president melted down yesterday morning? he often melts down when things are going badly for him. but any idea why he melted down so badly sunday morning, firing off over 90 tweets starting before 6:00 a.m.? >> i don't think there's any official explanation for why the presidential does what he does on twitter, especially yesterday. i think the things we've been talking about likely are the things weighing on president trump's mind.

the idea that the reality tv president who sold himself as a showman, a deal maker, that he has lower ratings than the democrats must really get at him. when you think about what he risked to really put on this event at the white house that was, i think, troublintroubling interesting, remarkable and somewhat dangerous, i think he put it all on the line and he's put it all on the line with this idea if i do all this stuff, try to put the virus in the rear view mirror and say we are going to get through this, if i spread misleading information enough somehow americans will believe me over the facts, over my own health officials and as a result i will be able to be re-elected. i think all of that is weighing on the president's mind. and i think there was this civil rights march that reverend sharpton was talking about, there was so many people on the president's doorstep telling him we don't like the way you're

handling the virus and this racial reckoning. i think he understands the nation is coming to a head when it comes to civil rights issues. black people are fed up, people of color understand they are being treated like second class citizens and white americans are waking up to the privilege they have and saying this is not right. i think we're in a moment where everyone is recognizing, even if you're a supporter of president trump you're recognizing he's struggling with his response to the coronavirus and he's not someone who has shown historically the empathy that people need in this moment when it comes to connecting with people who are reeling from the loss of so many black men or the shootings of so many black men. >> david, we look at the numbers of people that watched and donald trump's ratings on tv below joe biden's and kamala harris'. despite the fact that, as yamiche said, he had over 1,000

people commit this death defying act where they jammed together 1,000 to 1,500 people jammed together, no masks or very few masks on the same day over 1,000 americans died from the coronavirus and despite this high risk gambit, the president appears to be flat in the polls, his disapproval rating goes up, approval rating goes down. i'm curious on your thoughts on your defining moment where the president used the powers of his office the way autocrats do, and then risked the lives of thousands of people, if you multiply out the thousand people that were there. >> joe, the white house is the most extraordinary stage in the world. and trump and his lighting artists and technicians set it

off beautifully in a sense it was a classic donald trump act of selfishness to expose people to risks. to take that sacred national monument and use it for his own purpose. i felt that donald trump had been in a free fall in the weeks before the convention. the story was his botched handling of the covid pandemic. the country, the poll numbers suggested, was scared by the way the president had mismanaged that crisis. and i think the importance of the convention is it stopped the free fall, the polls have been bouncing all over the place as we've been saying this morning, going in slightly different directions so we have to wait a few more days and weeks for them to sort out. but i think trump's downward motion probably stopped and he's now introduced the idea that the country should be scared not of this terrible pandemic and his

utter inability to deal with it but know the country should be scared about violence in democratic controlled cities. that's the theme and that's what they're pushing hard. i'm sure they're going to talk in the show, how does joe biden, how does kamala harris respond powerfully to that so they don't let trump take that issue as rocket fuel for the last phase of the campaign and play to people's fears about violence and disorder in the country. but for the moment i think that issue is replaced, the concern about covid is the dominant theme in the race and that's why trump has this seeming, at least if not a bounce, he's settled in a more table position. >> there is the issue of him manipulating the information to twist the fear, to use it for his own benefit. but right now we've got two really tangible ways that americans can see how their lives have changed.

how they are less safe. how the president hasn't responded to something that he needs to respond to. first it was the coronavirus, which still continues and now it's this violence and this hatred that seems to be kind of moving across the country in response to something that most people have a pretty visceral reaction to. which is the treatment of african-americans by police. now the violence from this summer of racial unrest took another deadly turn. as supporters of the president made a show of force in portland on saturday. police say a man was shot and killed after clashes throughout the day between protesters who have been there for months and supporters of the president who gathered as part of a 600-vehicle caravan. there were reports of fistfights, video of trump supporters shooting paint ball and tear gas and protesters throwing things at the vehicles. officials say the caravan drove

around the city for hours. the president was supporting this. police said the vehicle caravan had cleared the area already when the shooting occurred and it remains unclear weather or how the shooting was connected to the protests. the victim has not been identified yet but a photo from the scene showed him wearing a hat with a logo of a far right group based in oregon. the conservative editorial board of "the wall street journal" write wheres in a new op-ed, quote, mr. trump would help portland and his own political cause a lot more if he called for calm on all sides. that includes his supporters, who rolled into portland for a counterprotest on saturday. according to news reports the man killed on the streets was wearing a hair for patriot prayer the right wing group that sometimes clashes with antifa. mr. trump should tell his

supporters to stay basically from portland, kenosha and other cities where rioters rein. mr. trump mr. trump's media opponents will take any opening they can to make alleged individual lantism the story rather than the failure of progressive democratic governance. meanwhile, joe biden stating shooting in the streets of a great american city is unacceptable. i condemn this violence unequivocally. i condemn violence of every kind by anyone whether on the left or the right. he went on to say we must not become a country at war with ourselves, a country that accepts the killing of fellow americans who do not dwroagree you. but that is the america that

president trump wants us to be. the america he believes we are. >> it's so interesting, mika, we've heard from donald trump and others and his supporters and some of the media who have said joe biden is not speaking out against the violence. it's ridiculous, they're not listening or they're intentionally ignoring the fact -- >> you're watching the counter programming. >> -- joe biden has continued to speak out against the violence. two things my friends on both sid sid sides. take a deep breath, two things can be true at one time. there can be violence and chaos in portland, which was there before donald trump sent in the federal troops there while donald trump sent in the federal troops, and there after donald trump took out federal troops and was there before donald trump's people went in and

started agitating the city. these things can be true at once and we'll talk to reverend al about it in a second. about all the pleas from reverend al and the naacp and jim clyburn and others to resist the violence that this undermines -- this undermines the cause of the 25 million, maybe 30 million marchers that have marched peacefully this year protesting the death of george floyd for black lives matter. but you know this whole thing mika where people say joe biden needs to say something. listen, that comment yesterday was not the first time joe biden has spoken out against the violence we've seen across america. despite what donald trump and a lot of republicans and some people in the media would have you believe, he said it before. take a look.

>> there's no place for violence. no place for looting or destroying property or burning churches or destroying businesses. many of them built by the very people of color who for the first time in their lives were beginning to realize their dreams and build wealth for their families. nor is it acceptable for our police sworn to protect all people to resort to violence. we need to distinguish between legitimate protests and opportunistic violence and destruction. >> i said from the outset of the protests there's no place for violence or destruction of property. peaceful protesters should be protected and arsonists and anarchists should be prosecuted. and local law enforcement can do that. when president obama and i were in office we protected federal property. we were able to do it without the department of homeland security turning it into a

private militia. it can be done today, but that wouldn't help trump's political interest. he's determined to stoke division and chaos. it's not good for the country. but donald trump doesn't care. his campaign is failing and he's looking for a political lifeline. this isn't about law and order, it's about a political strategy to revive a failing campaign. every instinct trump has adds fuel to the fire. >> pro testing brutality is a right and necessary. but burning down communities is not protest. it's needless violence. violence that endangers lives, guts businesses, shutters businesses that serve the community. that's wrong. >> first of all i denounced it a long time ago, weeks ago. i made it clear from the

beginning there's no justification whatsoever for violence, looting. as a matter of fact it flies in the face of the legitimate protests going on and takes away from the whole rationale for what's happening here. i've condemned the violence from the beginning. the problem we have right now is we're in donald trump's america. to quote kellyanne conway, she said, and i'm paraphrasing today, they're looking for more violence and disruption because it helps them politically. he views this as a political benefit to him. he's rooting for more violence, not less, and it's clear about that. what's he doing, pouring gasoline on the fire. this happens to be donald trump's america. donald trump's america. covid is out of control, he's not prepared, he didn't prepare for it, he hasn't responded to it, and he continues to be in a position where he does nothing to deal with it. we have 15 million people out of work. we have -- it just is amazing

how, if you notice he didn't speak about covid and they didn't speak about any of the reason why we're doing what's -- what's happening in kenosha is happening. by the way, i condemn violence in any form, whether it's looting or whatever it is. >> you know, reverend al, look at those clips, you go back to june the 2nd, there's no place for violence, no place for looting. we have to distinguish between peaceful protests and violence and anarchists. and talks about prosecuting them. in july says the same thing. there's no place for burning down communities and talks about how those -- many of these places being burned down are being burned down, they're community people who own these small businesses. august saying the same thing. violence and looting flies in the face of everything we're fighting for. this is donald trump's america.

reverend al, there are a lot of woke people -- or as you call them latte liberals that just -- they don't seem to understand that you and jim clyburn and the naacp and our friend the late john lewis have spent the whole summer condemning this violence. and you start talking about how you need to condemn this violence, and some people who obviously, obviously have interest in continuing the violence, on both sides, certainly become very upset. but it's just -- this is what bothers me, rev. there are a lot of lazy people out there. a lot of really lazy people out there. and maybe they're just -- maybe they're a little dumb, maybe they're a little evil, i don't know. i don't know. you know me, who am i to judge.

but they suggest that joe biden hasn't condemned this violence when he spent all summer condemning this violence. they suggest the democratic leaders and civil rights leaders like you want to defund the police. when jim clyburn and you and every democratic leader on the national stage i've heard condemn the latte liberals. condemns the woke nation who's talking about defunding the police. they are creating their own alternative reality, and those clips show very clearly and your own words show very clearly that the civil rights community and joe biden have consistently condemned this violence. >> you're absolutely right. when you look at those clips and i've seen joe biden do this in real time over the last several months.

he clearly has been one of the leading voices against the violence and against the looting while he supported our legitimate right to peaceful protests. and let me be clear. people that are violent on either side are undermining what we are trying to achieve in terms of having policing that is fair and equal. even those latte liberals that make excuses for violence on the left, i'm as angry as any black man in america, i've been fighting these issues for decades. you can't be more angry than i am for having to go through this. when you go out and loot and commit violence you not only hurt the cause you hurt the families that are trying to get a day in court to say their loved one that was killed was not a looter, a thug, did not have to be calmed down -- >> reverend al.

can you please say that again. because you told me this privately when we talk. you told me this publicly. i know there are a lot of, again, maybe they're just a little slow. i don't know. i don't know what the problem be is. but can you explain again, because this is critically important that when somebody tries to burn down a federal building in portland, when somebody tries to commit act of violence. you've always said they're hurting the families of those they're supposed to be holding up through protests. explain again how you've seen this in the past and how it actually makes it harder to get juries willing to convict those who have killed black men for no good reason. >> exactly right. what i raised to you in our private conversations and i say publically, when these people go to trial. we have three officers going to

trial in george floyd and other cases, when they go to trial, they will call a family member up when it's time -- or at that point in the trial to give us the character of george floyd, give us the character of whatever the victim may be. and they're going to tell them how this person was. they do not need you, whether you feel justified or not, to have the image of him as someone reckless, someone that was -- could only be contained by overstepping the bounds of policing. they can't have the image of you rioting and looting in their mind saying that's who george floyd was, so the police had no choice or that's who brooks was in atlanta. you are recklessly interfering with our right to try to get justice for these families that has nothing to do with your violence. every family -- forget joe biden a minute, forget the civil rights leaders, the families

have begged people to shtop it. don't use our victimized loved one as a prop to get off your emotions or your agenda. stop it. respect the fact that these people died and want their dignity not to be interrupted before they seek justice. otherwise you are victimizing them for the second time. >> we're going to get to more of this. first, mika, give us some of the other stories we'll follow this morning. >> there's a lot. we have the lop sided economic recovery, main stream versus wall street. the dow is expected to end its best august in 30 years even as the u.s. job market struggles to recover, more than 22 million people lost their jobs amid the pandemic and only about 9.3 million restored. the dow erased the losses on friday while the s&p entered a bull market.

in california fire crews are gaining ground on dozens of wildfires burning across the state. a spokesperson said firefighters are making great progress and containment efforts should continue to go up, about 60,000 people are still under evacuation orders. also, louisiana's department of death said the death toll from hurricane laura has risen to 14, hundreds of thousands of residents are still without power and some areas could be without running water for weeks. and finally, kentucky's attorney general has revealed his office received the fbi ballistics report from the fatal shooting of 26-year-old breonna taylor, he called it a critical piece of the investigation but not the end all, be all. cameron said witness testimony interviews still have to be conducted and he'll be meeting with fbi agents this week. breonna taylor was shot and killed in her louisville

apartment back in march when three officers with a no-knock search warrant entered without warning. >> and the story of breonna taylor in the "new york times" yesterday absolutely heartbreaking. we talked about george floyd an awful lot but obviously breonna taylor is on the hearts and minds of so many people who are marching every day. >> that's right. she was a young woman just getting started, really focused on service. focused on trying to help in the middle of a pandemic. the idea also that she was a woman is something that i think is sticking in a lot of people's minds because it is true we talk about black men but there are black women like sandra bland and so many others who have been killed by the police. and this hammers home this idea that there are a lot of people in this country who feel like if you are african-american, a

woman, a man, you are someone subject to being criminalized and your hopes and dreams snuffed out from under you. in this case she was sleeping in her own bed. there's this idea that especially african-american families you teach your children how to speak to the police, try to stay safe, how to be overly cautious, be at ease, put other people at ease, when they try to see you, but for this to happen in someone's own home, in their bed, shot while she's sleeping and for the police officers still not be arrested and charged, there are a lot of people that see that as unfair and it proves that fe african-americans are not safe anywhere, including your own bed when you're asleep. >> we'll get to more on this and the coronavirus. still ahead we'll talk about the criminal charges against the 17-year-old trump supporter who shot and killed two protesters in wisconsin.

his lawyers are claiming self-defense -- >> a lot of trump supporters, and it seems the president is even defending a 17-year-old kid running around with an ar-15 shooting indiskrim nantly. i'm not great with laws in wisconsin from what i have read, i don't think it's legal for a 17-year-old to be running around the streets with an ar-15. plus the number of coronavirus cases in the united states tops 6 million. the head of the fda said he's willing to fast track a vaccine a week after being criticized by president trump. we'll get to all of that when we come back. 'll get to all of thae come back. ♪ limu emu & doug you know limu, after all these years it's the ones that got away that haunt me the most. [ squawks ] 'cause you're not like everybody else. that's why liberty mutual customizes your car insurance, so you only pay for what you need.

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the 17-year-old accused of committing those two murders was a trump supporter. >> it's a tragedy. >> do you condemn it? >> it's a tragedy.

>> do you condemn it? >> it's a tragedy. >> it's a tragedy but do you condemn it? >> it's a tragedy. i don't want to see any loss of life. the way you prevent these tragedies is you support law enforcement. >> a tragedy could be a car accident -- >> you don't allow peaceful -- >> do you condemn this? >> you don't allow peaceful protests to turn into siege. i don't want to see anyone lose their life, businesses burned down, economic destruction, i condemn it all. >> it's interesting -- >> that was -- >> so he can't condemn the 17-year-old running around the streets, from out of state by the way, coming into wisconsin. he can't condemn a kid coming into wisconsin with an ar-15 running up and down the streets killing two people. >> what can you condemn? >> he can't condemn that.

it is interesting, though, that david ignatius, as i would say, uninspiring, why don't we call it that, as ron johnson's performance was in that interview with dana bash, he actually is going further and condemning violence on all sides, than our president seems to be doing. it seems that joe biden, of course, has aggressively been condemning violence on all sides but you have donald trump retweeting some horrific tweets and praising this kid who killed two people, 17-year-old from out of state coming into state running around shooting people indiscrumb unanimously with an ar-15. but it seems that donald trump is only encouraging violence and fanning the flames if you look at his tweet storms yesterday morning and last night.

>> trump is using the violence for every bit of political opportunity he can. it's one of the most opportunistic things i can remember in presidential politics. it's just a terrible situation. americans turn on their tvs and see images of the country coming apart. and trump is doing nothing that i can see to ease that division. i think, joe, i guess you can line up clips of joe biden saying the right thing about violence and looting for a half hour, but you -- he's going to have to do more than that. he's going to have to make an appeal with black and brown and other democratic party leaders that's effective. he needs to show that his coalition is able to do the

thing that the country wants, which is to have justice and law and order. the three go together, they're not in conflict. he needs to make that message clear. and then he needs to be successful. he needs to have some effect from that. if he does that, i think he'll show the country he's the leader we need right now. donald trump's argument about joe biden is he's a nice guy but he's too weak to stop the violent elements on the fringe of the party and biden needs to show, that's not true. i'm a strong leader, here's evidence. if he can do that, i think he goes through this period stronger. >> i think it is too. one of the things he did that was really impactful was continue to remind people that this is donald trump's america. donald trump has been president for almost four years. this is actually the american carnage that we did not have when he took over.

i don't know if i reminded our faithful followers of this or not. but crime was at a 50 year low when donald trump came into office. that's when he inherited from barack obama. illegal border crossings across the mexican line, mexican-u.s. line. >> low. >> were at 50 year lows. i was playing in t-ball in georgia the last time they were that low. three and a half years later, four years later, we have chaos. we have chaos in large part -- of course, yes, there are just violent elements, elements i've seen my entire adult life, whether it's environmental rallies in seattle, portland, or rallies opposing the world trade organization, anarchists glum on to legitimate protesters and agitators always try to bust windows, loot, always try to do what they do.

but this is especially bad. this is donald trump's america and in large part this continues because we have a president that has been fanning the flames from the very beginning. of course, june the 1st, the most dramatic example where the forces -- he and barr had his forces attack peaceful protesters in lafayette park. but even before that he was talking about his dogs that could rip people to shreds and when the looting starts, the shooting starts. >> cutting through it like butter. >> he has been using violent imagery that fascists use. he's been doing everything he can to fan the flames. >> facebook helps. >> all that aside, the reality he can't escape is we are li liveilive

living in donald trump's america. this is the carnage he has predicted. that's one thing he predicted correctly. he has created the american carnage that he talked about that was not existing when he took office, that's here now because of donald trump. >> like he made the coronavirus worse, he's making this worse. and the tweet storm included a like for a thread that included the following, kyle rittenhouse is why i decided to vote for trump. it paints rittenhouse as a hero to go up and protect businesses. this is a little boy with an ar-15, rittenhouse was charged on friday with a six count complaint that included recklessly endangering safety

and reckless and intentionally homicide in the deaths of two people and the injury of a third. he is fighting extradition from his home state of illinois with a hearing set for september 25th. joining us now, state attorney for palm beach county david aronberg. we have a lot to talk about this morning but we start with kyle rittenhouse. what's the argument in his defense? >> morning, mika. his lawyers are setting up for a self-defense claim. keep in mind he was the one that put the night of violence in motion. he was the one that travelled across state lines as a 17-year-old, to possess a weapon he was not allowed to possess. to stand guard outside a used car lot that no one asked him to stand guard at. so he was the initial aggressor. and under the initial aggressor doctri doctrine, he's not allowed

self-defense unless he makes it clear he's abandoning the fight or others come at him using excessive force. and according to videos doesn't look like either of those claims hold water. because the first person that he shot didn't have a weapon. the second person he shot and killed came at him with a skate board. the lawyers will say a guy wielding a skate board could be dangerous. you tell that to a injury that rittenhouse who had an ar-15 was in reasonable fear of his life from a guy with a skate board. i think the first degree murder charges here may need to be dropped down to second degree murder or manslaughter because i don't know if the elements are there. but he could face 60 years in prison instead of life. so it's still essentially life. another thing we need to be

concerned about, what kind of message does this send to young people, when you hold this guy up to be a hero. there's hundreds of thousands of dollars being raised for his defense fund. well, that encourages other vigilantes to go into conflict zones and possibly take other lives knowing they too could be a hero on the far right. that puts everyone at risk. >> it's chaos. jonathan lemire is with us and has a question for you. jonathan? >> dave, what we saw here, as you said, kyle rittenhouse has become a champion on the far right, tucker carlson in particular has gone out of his way to defend the actions, we saw the president endorse what he did, and portland, eulogizing the person who was killed there, who had the caravan through portland streets as patriots. i want to get your take on that.

from what you've seen on the videos, marches, the clashes between the two groups, the protesters on either side of this, what sort of charges -- what are we looking at there in terms of a law enforcement response, what would you see if that was your jurisdiction? >> jonathan, if someone was killed by a protester in polan portland, it doesn't matter if they're from the left or right, there could be murder charges. we don't know the name of the victim. the investigation will continue, i hope justice prevails there. this is a lot of incitement when the president said this is joe biden's america we need to remember who's in the white house. and there's incitement to send people through facebook -- i know joe loves to talk about this, facebook loves to send people to these conflict zones and so we shouldn't be surprised when deaths occur. plus we could see where people

get so outraged when you have a case of jacob blake, shot seven times in in the back because police thought he was reaching for a weapon and compare it to kyle rittenhouse, a white kid who had a weapon strapped to his chest and he walks by police waving at them, even though everyone is yelling at them he shot two people. you can see why our streets are so -- they're up in flames. it's important to condemn violence on both sides but it's important to have the conversations about racial inequities in our criminal justice system. if it continues it undermines faith in the justice system. >> how historic was that, reverend al, a black man gets shot walking to his car -- >> in front of his kids. >> -- in front of his children and a white gun that gunned down two people, has an ar-15

strapped to his chest. >> and he's holding his hands up as if he's done something wrong. >> and they just drive past him. >> that's why we're continuing the fights we're engaged in. >> black man walking around to get into the driver's seat of his car, three young kids none of them 10 years old in the car. when you see the other videos coming out, other children around, and the policeman shoots seven times in his back while he's holding his undershirt that's the reaction there. they say there may have been a knife in the car. the policeman didn't have x-ray vision, he wasn't superman, there wasn't imminent danger. you have this compared to a young 17-year-old white kid walking down the street with an rarks ar-15, after the curfew, there was a curfew that night. he shouldn't have been walking down the street at all.

walking down the street on the other side of town he would have been stopped. he's walking down the street with a rifle, to protect a used car lot that didn't request him and he had no authority, he shoots and kills two people and he gets across the state lines to illinois to his home. they had to bring him back from out of state. he not only got home, he got home from out of state. if that doesn't show the two levels with how we deal with criminal justice as the father said the other day at the rally in washington, there is a sense of white justice and black justice, nothing is more graphic than what happened in that situation. >> absolutely. dave aronberg thank you so much for being on this morning. now to this. thousands rallied in berlin against germany's coronavirus measures over the weekend.

including qanon supporters. tell us about this rally, mat. >> reporter: i should specify, the vast majority of the people at the rally two days ago here, in front of the iconic monument here in central berlin. most were protesting against the coronavirus restrictions. but we saw quite a few qanon protesters, mostly peaceful. but in the end there were a few arrests made and people did try to storm the german parliament. they made it as far as the steps but security turned them back. this boisterous protest is trying to convince the world the coronavirus pandemic is exaggerated or a sham. you won't see any masks or gloves here but you can catch a glimpse of an american phenomenon. this march is mostly against coronavirus restrictions but

there are a lot of qanon supporters here. >> most european believers are new to the conspiracy theory. their skepticism of the coronavirus acted as a gateway. coronavirus got you an entree into qanon, is that correct? so what is qanon, it has one central span, the global elites are controlling the world and they're trafficking our children. >> they want to get our children like the sick pedophiles all around the world. >> it goes back to an anonymous internet poster known as q who said he had access to intelligence who said donald trump is the savior who will

make an arrest of powerful leaders. there's no evidence for any of this, but for some it's a useful fiction. >> the theory that there is the belief that you are saving the world from the satanic cult of pedophiles and cannibals. does that sound like something you are behind? >> i haven't heard that. but is that supposed to be a bad thing or a good thing? >> reporter: believers have risen to positions in america's republican party and president trump has welcomed their support. >> and george soros and the democrats are trying to take me down. >> she comes from a great state. she had a tremendous victory so i did congratulate here. >> reporter: thanks to the pandemic this theory has become an american export. despite crackdowns, researchers have seen believers from dozens of different countries uniting online. lydia tracks qanon's activities.

>> it is much more flexibility as a conspiracy theory than it might have been a couple years ago when it was u.s. centric. >> reporter: a dutch housewife said she's worried for her 8-year-old son. >> for his future, yeah. because i don't want him to live in fear of hugging people or seeing other people as a potential sick and making others sick. >> reporter: like many european believers she's a recent convert inspired by her rebellion against covid regulations. >> some people call you crazy or whatever, conspiracy, crazy. i don't care anymore because for me i know a lot of things that are happening are very bad. they have to come out. >> reporter: while supporters in the states have committed violence, these protests have been mostly peaceful but not welcoming to journalists who

many believers count among the so called elites they oppose. they shouted insults at us and tried to block our shots. they're chanting essentially fake news. a hostile hallucination on the march around the world. there's an irony here, germany's burden of the coronavirus was light compared to neighboring countries, italy and france, so they didn't have as many infections or deaths, and these coronavirus restrictions people were protesting against they weren't severe and most of them were lifted weeks before this march this weekend. mika? >> it sounds familiar. if there's not a crisis, we'll invent one says qanon and so many others that are following leaders in poland and hungary

and the united states. david ignatius with "the washington post" is with us and has a question for you. >> matt, thanks for that report, thanks for teaching us how to say fake news in german. i want to ask you, whether you have found any evidence of any encouragement, support, retweeting from anyone in the trump circle endorsing these german protests against new coronavirus restrictions? and then, second, the germans, as you said have been fairly successful in keeping coronavirus at bay. are you hearing concerns that these protests against restrictions, against public health measures they make that more difficult in a second wave? >> you know, when you're talking about whether the trump administration is actually kind of lee yazing with protesters and qanon support ers here in europe, i'm not sure there's a

lot of evidence of that. but this conspiracy theory it's very malleable, flexible. so people in europe supporting this, they've managed to bend it to meet their own local ambitions and complaints about their own gotvernments here in europe. so they have connections between the populist right here in germany. there was some presence of what they call afd, the alternative for germany party, that's been kind of present. they didn't organize the march on saturday but they're a populist right-wing party and they have connections with other populist right-wing parties throughout europe. when it comes to coronavirus restrictions and the protests, your second question, it's unclear because germany has been on top of the disease. if there's a spike again in the winter, i don't know if this country is going to necessarily be going against any additional restrictions. this group, there were tens of thousands of them, it was a

large protest, but germany is a big country and for the most part everybody complied with the rules throughout the country, that's one of the reasons why this country came out on top of the coronavirus when there's so many other countries neighboring it failed. >> matt bradley, thank you so much. we do appreciate it. you know, mika, this is what we were talking about last week. it's what we've talked about with what ann applebaum has written about extensively. in poland the first thing they did in 2015 they tried to whip up a frenzy against anti-muslims. then they looked it up and found out there weren't enough muslims around so they used anti-gay, anti-lesbian and used

homosexuality to create this enemy. you've seen the same thing, donald trump, build that wall, what's that about? again, he made that up at a time he was going to build a wall and have mexico pay for it, which we said was a lie at the time. >> turned out to be. >> it was a lie, will always be a lie. he just made that crisis up because again at the time, illegal border crossings, we said this during the campaign repeatedly, if you're too stupid to remember that, stay away from household appliances especially blenders but we said at the time he was never going to build a wall and mexico wasn't going to pay for it. yet people loved it. he invented a crisis that didn't exist because illegal border crossings were at a 50 year low. you can look up that fact on donald trump's own department of

homeland security. go to the websites and see, and they will tell you when barack obama left office, illegal border crossings were at a 50 year low. so if there's not a crisis, you make one up. that's what's going on here. notice time and again donald trump refuses to even push away the suggestion that there's this worldwide conspiracy of pedophiles and whatever else trying to snatch your kids. and that he's the savior. he refuses to push that away. >> very cult like. >> it's beneath contempt and yes, very cult like. >> just past the top of the hour. reverend al sharpton and jonathan lemire are still with us. and joining the conversation we have reporter jeremy peters, donny deutsch is with us, and reporter shannon pettypiece joining us. let's start with the new polling following the democratic and

republican national conventions showing president trump's favorability slipping while joe biden climbs. in the latest poll, trump's favorability sits at 31%, downpodown four points. 59% have an unfavorable opinion of the opinion. 46% hold a favorable view of biden, up six points -- >> look at this, donald trump's favorability rating goes down four points across the two conventions, goes down four points. joe biden's goes up 6. this is so critical because time and again we've heard that this election is going to be decided, mika, by people who don't have a favorable view of either and who are they going to be more likely to vote for. joe biden's favorability continues to go up, despite the fact that donald trump and his team have been lying about him. spending tens of millions of

dollars -- i don't know, maybe hundreds of millions of dollars, attacking his character and it's not doing anything. >> he's got to do it right. you know, at this point it's more important than ever that he sticks to states in between the lines, sticks to the truth, responds and stays solid. i think a lot of people want him running all over the place doing more. i'm not sure. i think these solid numbers are probably where you want to be at this point. when looking at president trump's handling of the coronavirus, 35% approve while 63% disapprove. the latest morning con sult poll shows joe biden now holding a 6 point lead over president trump, 50 to 44%. that's down from the 10 point lead he held going into the convention on august 23rd. but the latest usc dornsife poll on friday found biden at 53% to trump's 41%. that's a margin of 12 points.

>> donny deutsch. you have been following consumers and branding your entire life. tell me what you saw out of the dnc and rnc conventions and where you believe the state of the race is as we go into the final stretch. >> i think it's going to come down to one question. are you safer today than you were four years ago? when you look at the coronavirus or the violence. and i think it's so important -- biden is teeing it up today when he talks about trump's america. we need to brand -- we need to do a judo move on donald trump who basically last week tried to brand the white house. these are the trump riots, the trump violence, this is the trump reality show of a more violent america. you touched on it friday, the irony that trump is trying to run as a change candidate and

this is somebody else's problems. what joe biden has to be vigilant about, it has to be coronavirus and the violence, this is branded trump. this is the trump reality show. you are less safe today, whether t ut's coronavirus, the violence in the streets because of donald trump, that is the state of this race. and this is the ultimate branding exercise to reverse back and will hopefully be the demise of donald trump. >> so jeremy peters, how frustrating it has to be for donald trump's campaign people. it's constantly frustrating for them, but they have a night where people get up and try to connect to the suburban republican voters that have run away from them and then donald trump goes on an absolutely massive meltdown yesterday morning, i think over 90 tweets.

just went out of his mind crazy. and, of course, any gains that he may have gotten from a couple of people talking nice about him would be washed away by reports of this over-the-top crazed creed of his. but i'm wondering what is his goal to get those republicans back that he loses every time he goes on that sort of rant. >> you think be a it joe, it's reminiscent of four years ago when trump came out after what most people agreed was a successful convention and he implied that ted cruz's father was involved in the kennedy assassination. pretty much erasing much hope that he changed or tempered his conduct. that's exactly what you have going on here. what they've been trying to do from the convention in ads

they've been cutting and running on facebook and elsewhere is the sense that really they're saying trump is not as bad as you think he is. we, the republican party, we're not as bad as you think we are. we don't coddle extremists, we're not racists. the president is a man of compassion who has a tremendous work ethic. he is fighting for you, he will be your voice. but the problem is, no high production value ad campaign can gloss over the fact that the voters overwhelmingly don't believe that. the numbers you were just showing they don't think he's done a good job by wide margins of handling the coronavirus pandemic. they don't think he's compassionate. there was a poll out that something like only in the 30s -- 36%, something like that, people felt that he was a compassionate person, compared

with two thirds of people who felt that way about joe biden. so really this constructed reality that has come out of the messaging of the republican convention does not square with how the american people see this president. and as he continues to step all over the own strictly produced well scripted message coming out of his ads and the rnc last week, i think it's going to be really hard for that to take hold in these states and suburbs where there are wobbly republicans who might be brought back into the fold. >> shannon, injujeremy was sayi the goal is to tell suburban voters and republicans that left that he doesn't coddle extrem t extremists or conspiracy theo

theorists, yet you asked him that question and donald trump was the savior of the world and he said, something, like that sounds great. take us back to that question and answer. what was his response? >> he basically embraced this qanon theory, while saying he didn't know anything about qanon, though he is someone who is very up on the news, as we see from his tweets so it's hard to imagine he's not heard about this or the increasing popularity of this bizarre conspiracy theory. it believes there's a shadow network of pedophiles, you know, out there who control the universe and trump is the one sent to save them all. that's at the crux of the theory i asked him about. i thought he was going to dodge it and move on, but instead he

basically said i don't know anything abit but the people who do believe in it support me and those are good people and when i explained to him what this theory was about, he said, okay, well, that doesn't sound that bad, sure, why not. and for the qanon followers out there, immediately after he made the comment it ignited on the message boards, i was told by my colleagues who followed this closely and are plugged into the community, it lit the followers on fire and gave all this steam to this movement. i will say, the people who believe in qanon, it's not necessarily the stereo typical conspiracy theorist with a bunker and a bunch of guns hiding in their basement. i've met these folks at trump rallies they're hardworking people, middle class, jobs,

families, working professionals, women and men and they believe in these conspiracy theories out there. it would have been a moment for him to disavow this and get people to think a little bit. instead he endorsed what was going on. >> of course. you were at the rally in new hampshire on friday. backing up a little bit. how was the response there? >>, you know, the masks really stood out or lack of masks i will stay, of course new hampshire is live free or die. there are few mask requirements in place in the state but one of the few requirements the governor did put in place is the requirement at gatherings of over 100 people. the campaign was enforcing the state mandate that at a gathering of more than 100 people you have to wear a mask. people were not. about one in ten people didn't have a mask on. at one point there was an announcement over the speaker by the campaign telling the people,

it's a state requirement, wear a mask, put your mask on. and the crowd actually booed. and i at first thought they must be booing something else and looked around and checked the tape and the only thing that happened at that moment was an announcement over head telling people to put their masks on. broadly among trump supporters there's a sense that coronavirus is a hoax or it's just not as bad as it really seems. and that it's the media making it to be something worse than it really is. and that's something that you could see in people who went to this rally, including senior citizens, that was the most nerve racking thing for me to watch was senior citizens without a mask on, packed next to each other for hours in this semiopen space. >> and this is where, joe, the presidency matters where the president could make a difference. where the president could keep people safe. by wearing a mask.

telling them, no, you're wrong, don't boo, put your mask on and it'll keep you safer. he just doesn't -- he doesn't rise up to the job. he can't do the job. he won't do the job. >> 180,000 americans are dead because of the coronavirus. their families would be deeply offended by those dismissing this as conspiracy theory. >> i'm worried these people will get the coronavirus, they went to the rally, another super spreader event. >> it's happened time and again, again not wearing masks at these events has caused real problems in the past. again we're up to three vietnams, the deaths of u.s. troops in vietnam -- >> 9/11 every few days. >> -- times three, and a 9/11 every couple of days. and just because they are supporting a reality tv show candidate. they're willing to put their

lives at risk and the lives of their loved ones at risk -- >> and our country. >> in this country in 2020. so jonathan lemire, that, of course, is confounding. also confounding, equally co confounding to borrow from a headline that was sent to me, how in the world is donald trump going to convince americans that biden's america will look like trump's america does now? he owns this. how do his people in the white house not realize that this is his american carnage? >> joe, there's always been an inherent incoherence argument quite frankly to this argument. donald trump is president. now he and his allies point to the violence in cities and states where they say they're run by democrats. these are democratic governors, mayor. blaming new york or chicago for

a rise in violence, shootings. over portland, seattle with clashes involving federal law enforcement. that is the case they've tried to make and seem to have settled on in the closing argument, the idea that joe biden though perhaps not a member of the radical left themselves that he is the puppet, not strong enough to stand up against the forces who are overrunning american streets in trump's view. we have seen, of course, they are leaned into this. they have tried this before. they have leaned into the law and order argument and we know polling suggests it didn't work last time. the black lives matter movement and the protests from coast-to-coast were widely pop popular according to polling and a pollster said he's never seen a politician so out of step with the moment as donald trump was. and he inflamed the situation with his march to lafayette

square to the church with the bible for a photo op. the president will be going to kenosha tomorrow, hard to imagine it doesn't stoke tensions there. and we should know, the governor has asked him not to come. yet he is pushing forward and will be there tomorrow. is there pressure for joe biden to address this? yes, there is, and we have talked about this this morning. there is talk of joe biden heading to kenosha himself, perhaps later this week. we'll hear from him today in pennsylvania on this issue. but the president they feel this depiction of american citizens out of control, unsafe, even though he's president that works for him, in part because as one adviser put it to me, any day that the national discourse isn't about the covid-19 pandemic and the president's handling of that crisis is a day they want. they want to try to talk about

anything else. they want to do anything they can to make this race anything other than a referendum on how the president has handled the pandemic because at this point voters disapprove of it. >> 63% disaprove of the president's coronavirus handling, for good reason, 180,000 americans are dead. it's interesting, reverend al, that i see a lot of white people on tv talking about how they think the coronavirus pandemic that's killed 180,000 people is just some farce, some ruse, some media invention -- by the way, they're saying the -- spreading the same lies that were spread back in february and march, that it was a media hoax. and that donald trump won't condemn it. i don't see a lot of black people doing that. and i'm just wondering, since this disease has a

disproportionate impact on black americans, i'm wondering if this isn't yet another example of just how disconnected donald trump is from black america, part of america that his associates were bragging to me he would get 15 to 20% from about a year ago. now it seems like he's doing everything he can to push black voters away, including lying about a pandemic that disproportionately kills black america. >> all data shows that black america, disproportionately has suffered from this covid-19 and terms of being found to be positive in terms of when they're tested and in terms of the deaths. for this president to try and act like this is a hoax or for his supporters or sympathizers to say it's a hoax when all of us know people in our families

or in our basic social life that has been directly impacted by this is offensive and insulting. and the reason is disproportiona disproportionate. is that blacks are disproportionately doing jobs, engaged in work you can't do from home. it's easy to tell people to work from home when they have the kind of jobs they can do that. we don't have, in a disproportionate sense, those kinds of jobs. i think that's why you're seeing a lot of the energizing you have around the policing issues and the health issues like the big march on friday, because people that are directly impacted are insu insulted by the notion what they're going through is an illusion, what is real life to us every day. >> tell us about the march on friday, rev. it was extraordinary. what came out of it? >> we marched and it was tens of thousands of people, way beyond

our expectation. i heard mika in my ear. we tested everybody's temperature before we let them in the mall. we had everybody with face masks and encouraged social distancing. we had to fight on the stage to get people to distant because they were there. it was to say two things, the george floyd policing in justice act that passed the house that would make it a felony to have a policeman cause death, unless it's life extenuating circumstances by compressing someone, choke hold or knee on the neck, it and would also get rid of the immunity that they have had in terms of being liable themselves. we also have the john lewis voting rights act that we're trying to get. this was a legislative -- those are the two legislative goals.

and we had the families. the big thing about this march and rally on friday was that not only did you have all these people out on a work day, the biggest march -- civil rights march i've seen in years, the actual family of george floyd, the family of the young man killed in atlanta, georgia, rashad brooks, the mother of breonna taylor, we had the victims speak to the pain in the shadow of abe lincoln, dr. martin luther king said it 57 years ago in his i have a dream speech about the fulfi fulfillment of the promises is not there, 57 years later his son stood with the families and i to say this to this multitude. donald trump should be concerned. this happened the morning after

his acceptance speech at the white house less than a mile away to say that people are energized to come out with those numbers. there was huge amount of young people and whites and blacks. and of the racial groups i think it was a tremendous expression of how we can do it and not one -- not an inkling of violence because the tone was set that we're not going to tolerate that. >> let's bring us back to the coronavirus. over the weekend, the u.s. surpassed 6 million cases. that's 6 million of the over 25 million of the confirmed cases globally. the u.s. open is set to begin today and the u.s. tennis association announced that one of the players has been withdrawn from the field after testing positive for covid-19. paire was the number 17 seed and was the first player to test positive ahead of the open.

matches will take place without spectators, contract tracing will determine who might have been exposed to paire and who needs to be kwaurn teed. and president trump's secret service is not immune. it's beginning to feel the strain caused by the deadly virus. according to "the washington post" just last month the president gave a speech to a group of sheriffs in tampa, florida, five secret service agents already on the ground had to be replaced after one tested positive for covid-19 and the others work in proximity were presumed to be infected according to people familiar with the situation. these people confirmed in the last two months dozens of secret service agents who worked to ensure the president and vice president's security at public events have been sickened or sidelined because they were in direct contact with infected

people. >> not a hoax. >> the secret service has since declined to comment about the number of staffers who have tested positive for the virus. joining us chief medical correspondent, dr. david campbell. if you hold a rally in new hampshire or exposed your staff or secret service to advanced teams for these rallies where people are not wearing masks, what what happens? >> the disease is transmitted. it's a virus we know that. what makes this harder to understand is just last week the cdc came out with a revised recommendation for testing that would have stopped those secret service agents from being tested because they were not with a known or recent exposure according to the new guidelines that are out now for about a week or so, just having been exposed to the virus or possibly

being exposed to the virus isn't really enough reason to get tested. you have to have other reasons, such as feeling sick, having symptoms, having underlying health conditions or otherwise have a better reason to be tested. so we have had confusion in the last week. which makes what you just said about the secret service agents and people on the ground a little harder to comprehend. mika? >> it really is. in the race for a covid-19 vaccine, the head of the fda said he's prepared to bypass the full federal approval process in order to make a vaccine available as soon as possible. in an interview with the "financial times" fda commissioner steven hahn said his agency is willing to consider granting emergency authorization before phase three clinical trials have been completed if it is determined to be appropriate and the benefits outweigh the risks. hawn insisted the move to fast

track a vaccine is not politically motivated and does not come from pressure from the trump administration. this is going to be a science, medicine, data decision he said, this is not going to be a political decision. already china and russia have approved vaccines without waiting from the end of phase three trials -- >> dr. dave, there's already enough skepticisms about vaccines as it is. we've seen the president pushing on hydroxychloroquine. we've seen the president pushing on disinfectants. we've seen the president pushing on uv lights being shoved into people. we've seen the president talking about this magically going away. now we've seen the president pushing hard on vaccines, accusing dr. hahn and others in the fda of being part of a, quote, deep state conspiracy and now they're folding. what is the likelihood that americans are going to have

confidence in any vaccine that is rushed, not based on science, but based on a time line that has to do with an election? >> that really speaks to the issue of vaccines. if you don't get a vaccine -- this is obvious. if you don't get a vaccine, you're not vaccinated. sounds silly. but we know that during flu season, it's a minority of individuals in the united states who are vaccinated against the flu let alone the childhood diseases that we know of. so if we create this vaccine hesitancy by mixed messages in in the media, mixed messages coming across from the government to the media to doctors then we could unfortunately see less people willing to have the vaccine given to them, even if it comes out soon. even if if it comes out before the election or after the election. so it's not just a matter of safety and effectiveness of the vaccine.

it is that the vaccine doesn't work if you don't receive it. silly, but that's the reality that's being created right now. >> all right. dr. dave campbell, thank you very much for being on this morning. shannon and jeremy, thank you both for your reporting as well. still ahead on "morning joe," former director of national intelligence john brennan joins us to discuss the trump administration's decision to no longer give in-person briefings to congress on election security. plus, nancy pelosi suggests democrats will release president trump's tax returns if they win the white house in november. we'll talk about that ongoing fight. you're watching "morning joe." we'll be right back. you're watching "morning joe." we'll be right back. from prom dresses... ...to soccer practices... ...and new adventures. you hope the more you give the less they'll miss.

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when we win this election,

and we have a new president of the united states in january and we have a new secretary of the treasury and rich neil asks for the president's returns then the world will see what the president has been hiding all of this time. >> all right. that was house speaker nancy pelosi on friday seemingly to suggest that president trump's long sought-after tax returns will be released even if he loses the election this november. joining us now former senior adviser for the house oversight curt bardella, "morning joe" contributor and senior adviser to the lincoln project. where do we stand in terms of being able to see these tax returns? because it seems like every process will be hit back with an appeal or something. >> yeah. i mean, i think there's no

question what we have seen through all of trump's presidency is any time congress exerts its oversight authority trump ignores it or goes to the courts to defy it. we've seen time and again while the process takes time, the courts reaffirm congress' authority to ask for these documents, have the subpoenas enforced. i think what's going to happen. when we loo at what next year could look like, the speaker is spot on. the american people have a right to know what the president has been hiring. it was the president who first promised to provide his returns and he hasn't done that. the question is what do you have to hide? he loves to boast about how rich he is, and the resources he has and the wealth he's accumulated. yet when it's time to provide and show he duoesn't want to do that. there's a reason for that, because he's not as rich as he

said he was, or he has debts with someone that is not good that has a lot of leverage over the sitting president. i suspect there's a lot that trump would be embarrassed to show the american people. >> i think it's important to know exactly what happened here with this presidency. donny deutsch is this a good strategy for the democrats? even beyond the election, to keep pursuing this? >> what you would find in these tax returns is what everybody in new york city, everybody in business knew, donald trump couldn't borrow money from banks going to the 90s and you find money laundering from russians. but, but, but, do not get a head fake and do not get distracted from what this election is about, it's about the safety of american people, a failed presidency with the coronavirus, 50 million jobs lost and trump riot in the streets. this is not about russia,

meddling, tax returns, so yes, i think when donald trump is out of office, i think the entire organization will be ricoed, but this is not on the minds of the american people, do not get distracted. >> jonathan lemire? >> we have spent a year's long odyssey for the democrats to try to get their hands on the tax returns, particularly since they took control of the house of representatives since the the 2018 midterms. they've been unsuccessful every time to this point, the speaker is suggesting she will do this. to donny's point i know some worry this is a distraction that the democrats don't need. what's she talking about here how? how can they finally potentially get their hands on the tax returns? >> we've seen, jonathan, recent

court cases have upheld and turned back trump challenges to say that congress doesn't have the authority to ask for these or get them. so i think they're going to get the returns, whether it's from donald trump, his accounting firm or various banking institutions that he's done business with or had to show the returns to, there are a lot of mechanisms to get to them. i think what speaker pelosi is eluding to here is the need for congress to reassert itself checks and balances authority, we're seeing in the house foreign relations committee they're starting contempt proceedings against mike pompeo, who's been unresponsive to them, they need to do these things. one thing to look at is looking at way to give themselves more authority and power to enforce subpoenas. we've seen the flaw in checks and balances so so many things

go to the attorney general to enforce. well, when the attorney general is someone like bill barr we know that's going nowhere so congress has the need to give authority outside of the attorney general. congress ted lou has put forward a rule change to levy $100,000 in fines to anybody who avoids subpoena oversight opportunities so that's something i think they'll look at doing. we've seen time again, at the epa, state department, foreign affairs, intelligence, this administration does not cooperate with oversight and we cannot have that happen for another four years. >> kurt bardela, thank you. coming up, after top officials warned trump last month about threats to u.s. elections, the administration has decided to halt in-person briefings on foreign interference, a member of the intelligence committee, senator

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in an unprecedented move just weeks before the presidential election, the office of the director of national intelligence will no longer offer in-person briefings to congress on election security and foreign interference, according to a congressional official briefed on the matter. the decision comes as the trump administration seeks to halt the in-person briefings reportedly over concerns over leaks. congressional intelligence committees will have access to classified written intelligence reports but the cancellation of in-person briefings means congress will not be able to question officials about what's behind the reports. and new reporting by nbc news says that the fbi and dhs plan

to brief congress on cyber threats to election security and disinformation but not on the plans and intentions of foreign adversaries. in a statement to nbc news, the fbi said, quote, the fbi is committed to keeping congress informed on election security and malign foreign influence threats, protecting our elections remains a top priority for the fbi. we decline to comment further. dhs has yet to respond to nbc news. senator marco rubio of florida, the acting chairman of the senate intelligence committee issued a statement that said in part, this situation we now face is due, in no small part, to the willingness of some to commit federal crimes for the purpose of advancing their electoral aims. but also said the leaks should not quote release the intelligence community from the

legal obligation to brief congress. joining us now former cia director, john brennan, an analyst for nbc news. also with us member of the intelligence committee, independent senator angus king of maine. senator, i would like for you to state for us clearly if you could, why it's important to be able to ask questions and have those briefings. >> the clearest way i can put it, if you took everything you just said and strike the word congress and insert the american people that's who's getting used in this information. this is information collected by the intelligence community and they owe it -- we owe it, the government owes it to the american people to tell them what they know in order to help them make a good decision on november 3rd. this is not a spat between congress and the president or republicans and democrats.

if the intelligence community learns that our election is being manipulated with by a foreign government they would tell congress and through them the american people. who do these people work for in the intelligence community? my ro my vote is they work for you and me, they don't work for the president. their oath is to the constitution, not any particular president. >> director brennan, in your respect the response would be that you're going to get the written reports so you can read them. is that not good enough? >> i think as senator king said, it's important to have the back and forth between our elected legislators and professionals. it's important for our members of congress to understand fully exactly what foreign nations and intelligence services are doing to interfere in our election. this move by the director of national intelligence to cancel or sharply limit the type of

interactions with congress is very worrisome, consistent with what your previous guest said it's part of the administration's strategy to prevent the flow of information or intelligence to congress that could be detrimental to donald trump. it also prevents the full extent of russia's interference in our election be known. we know russia's influence in the 2016 election helped donald trump get elected. we know russia are trying to denigrate vice president biden. and it's one more indication that donald trump will do anything to stay in office between 2021. i think they're right to be concerned about what's happening right now with the intelligence commu community. >> john brennan, is there any other reason the director would head up a decision like this? do you think it is to protect bad information about donald trump from coming out? is there any other reason to do

this? >> well, his stated purpose in his letter was to ensure clarity and consistency in the briefings that go to congress. that can be achieved with good management and oversight and review and coordination of those briefings. he said it's designed to protect source and method. i don't agree with that at all. i briefed members of congress repeatedly during the 2016 election on russian efforts to interfere in the election. so i think it's just an effort to try to stifle and suffocate the flow of information to congress because donald trump fears what congress can do as far as exposing a lot of his activities that i think the american people are, quite frankly, fed up with. >> jonathan lemire? >> senator king, what recourse do you have, perhaps, to get the administration to reverse itself here? and could you talk to us a little more about what you have seen, briefed upon, as much as

you're able, in terms of election interference this time around? we know what happened in 2016. we know that in recent weeks there have been warnings from odni and other agencies whether it's russia, china, iran, other countries are trying to interfere with the election. is this administration doing enough to stop it? what are you seeing? >> the answer is no, not enough. and you're right. we -- that's what makes this so frustrated, jonathan, a month ago they told us the interference was happening. now what they're telling us is we're not going to give you any more clear information. and john brennan made an important point, the letter from the head of the director of national intelligence said we'll given written briefings. i bet i sat through 2 or 300 hearings in the senate and there was never a time that the

questioning didn't elicit information from what was in the dry transcript. so your question is what can we do? we're all ready. i've been in touch with the leadership of the intelligence committee. we're already trying to work with the director of national intelligence to walk back this intelligence to walk back this position and at least share this information with the intelligence committees, which our committee has a very good record. i don't recall a leak incident in eight years i've been on the committee. we can handle classified information. the other question is, should it be classified because it's embarrassing not because it compromises national security? that's a whole separate issue. >> director brennan, very much on the subject of russia election interference, a week or so back you sat for an interview with john durham's investigators as part of the justice department's probe into that investigation. you were told you were a witness, not a target.

can you please tell us what that interview covered, and what do you think of the probe happening right now as we head into the final weeks before the election? >> the interview covered a wide array of issues about what the law enforcement did during the 2016 campaign to the assessment. they're trying to fill their responsibilities from the department of justice. it's clear this effort that was spearheaded or authorized by william barr and donald trump is a trolling exercise, going through a lot of documents, a lot of information, conducting a lot of interviews to see what they can find as far as mistakes or even criminality. but william barr talks a lot about questioning the predication of the investigation of the trump campaign in 2016. i really question the predication of this investigation, this review,

which again seems to be an overarching effort to try to indict maybe literally or figuratively those individuals who were involved in the, i think, necessary, important and appropriate investigation of russian interference in the 2016 election that involved the u.s. persons during that time. >> former cia director john brennan and senator angus king, thank you, both. before we go to break, donny deutsch, there are so many things wrong with this and i hate to say it doesn't seem to bother the republicans, but for the democrats, what should the strategy because because there are so many different ways in which they could be really going after this president, his decisions and decisions that he's made, whether it's on coronavirus, racial violence, but this seems to be such a high crime in many ways in terms of

covering up information that could be protecting this president during an election? >> mika, the emotional side, the right side of my brain says the democracy, these types of things, keeping information about the cdc, the postmaster stuff is obviously vital. but the message to defeat donald trump is a failed presidency. 180,000 deaths climbing to 300,000, jobs lost, violence in the streets inspired by donald trump. those are the kitchen table issues. these other issues, which frankly, even long term are more dangerous, are not the answer for 60 days out, stay close to home. >> all right. still ahead, two members of the house armed services committee, congressman slotkin and mikie sherrill join the conversation on unrest around the country. we also want to honor chadwick

boseman, best known for his cultural-changing role in marvel's "black panther," who died after four years of privately battling colon cancer. his passing was confirmed on the actor's twitter in a statement sharing boseman's cancer had progressed from stage 3 to stage 4. that the actor worked on many of his prominent films between surgery and chemotherapy treatments. the 43-year-old actor portrayed a number of iconic black americans throughout his career, including jackie robinson, marshall and james brown. his character in marvel's groundbreaking film "black panther," making history as the first major super hero movie featuring an african protagonist and majority all-black cast.

the film was universally praised and was nominated for best picture at the academy awards in 2019, making history as the first are super hero movie to be nominated in that category. so, here is part of willie geist's "sunday today" interview with chadwick shortly after the release of "black panther." >> what do you think are people responding to exactly? there have been a lot of super hero movie, they do well and they're popular but there's another dimension to this. >> i think there's a first for these images. there's a first for a black super hero. as far as my character goes, there's a real search for how do i lead? i think people are looking for that, people that actually care about the people. >> i give to you prince, the black panther.

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good morning and welcome to "morning joe." it is monday, august 31st. we have with us jonathan lemire, and president of the national action network, reverend al sharpton, columnist david ignatius and host of pbs's "news hour." >> i need to start with jonathan lemire. another red sox victory last night. two in a row for the world champion. i'm wondering if it's time to start fitting them for world series ring, despite the fact

they have second to last worst record in baseball. i can feel the september breezes coming going to push them over the finish line. >> every four years we come out of the convention wondering which candidate with the big mo, it's the boston red sox this time. >> yes. >> two straight wins against the nationals. the grounds crew clearing space for a banner this october wondering which ex-red sox star, mookie betts or mitch moreland, will get get the bigger ovation at fenway park, but no fans at fenway park. go with it. this is the impossible dream. >> like secretariat going down the stretch at belmont, these red sox are coming on. two wins in a row. speaking of momentum, speaking of momentum, i do think that,

perhaps, the president may have been a bit enraged yesterday morning after getting the ratings from his final night, but also the polling out of abc news/"the washington post," showing that, boy, his approval rating went down and joe biden's went down over the two conventions. >> his tweet storm certainly showed he is reacting to something, but there is fresh new polling following both the democratic and republican national conventions, showing president trump's favorite favorability slipping while joe biden's steadily climbs. in the latest abc news/ipsos poll, trump's favorability sits at 31%, and 59% of people have unfavorable people of president. 46% have a favorable view of joe biden, up six points since

before the dnc. 40% have an unfavorable view of the former vice president. when looking at president trump's handling of the coronavirus, 35% approve, while 63% disapprove. who are the 35% is all i want to know. the latest poll shows voters edging back on president trump off the heels of the republican national pageant, or convention. joe biden holds a six-point lead over president trump, 50% to 44%. that's down from the ten-point lead he held heading into the convention on august 3rd. the latest uscdonsfife found biden 53% to trump's 41%, a margin of 12 points. >> so, jonathan lemire, a lot of people around be the white house were thrilled with what happened

during whatever you want to call last week's rnc events. the polls actually -- a couple of polls showing within the margin of things may have gotten a little better for the president. but if you look at the abc news/washington post approval poll, and donald trump's approval ratings went down and joe biden's went up. biden's quite considerably, up six points and unfavorability down three points, which is showing to me at least coming out of this convention the story seems to be, and i would guess people inside the white house would be thinking this, too, and they may not admit it to the president, but it's got to be frustrating to them that despite the tens of millions of dollars in unfavorable ads thrown at joe biden over the past six months, despite the fact the president even got impeached over trying

to pull in a ukrainian leader, to try to besmerch the reputation of joe biden. biden's approval ratings keep going up. we're going to have to start calling him teflon joe. >> i think it was striking in the past few days. democrats i've talked to, there seems to be a collective freakout among democrats the last -- since the republican convention ended, suggesting this race was suddenly hurtling trump's way but the polling doesn't back that up, not at all, not yet. some polls suggest slight movement towards the president. joe biden walked into a the convention with a pretty substantial and stable lead. there hasn't been much that has happened since the onset of the pandemic and certainly since the aftermath of george floyd's killing and the president's walk

across lafayette square that has really changed the fundamentals of this race. yes, it has dipped and moved a little around the margins to this point. yes, both sides privately will acknowledge it's tightened some, and some acknowledge joe biden is still winning. forget the national polls but in the battleground states that really matter he still has a four, five, six, seven-point lead in states. it does seem the republicans -- you're right, the white house was pleased with the staging of the events last week. we are still going to see the aftermath of that in the coming days. what we don't know yet are how the events of kenosha or portland are going to change things. we know the president is traveling to kenosha tomorrow. joe biden is going to speak on the unrest in america and how president trump has added to that today in a speech in pennsylvania and his aides are working on his own visit to wisconsin, potentially later this week. but right now, this race still remains the same.

now, it's fully joined, it's on now, as they say. joe biden is resuming his campaigning. the president and his team are pleased about that. they feel they've, quote, pushed joe biden out of his basement. they feel the more he's in the public, perhaps, that will lead to some gaffe or blunder that could close the race. right now, joe, we are whe wea. maybe it's closed slightly but joe biden is in an inenviable position two months out. >> reverend sharpton, please correct me if i'm wrong, it seems the only thing that has changed since looking at the polling since two weeks of convention is, trump coun's app rating ticked down slightly and joe biden's approval rating went up a good bit. sitting at 45, 46% approval rating. those disapproving of him went down three points.

>> clearly joe biden rising with approval and the president coming down is bad news for the white house no matter how they spin it. they are now playing this, we're in survival mode, trying to spin it as if this is some advancement. the thing i observed over the weekend when we had the big march in washington friday, which was probably the biggest civil rights march in the last several years, the energy, i mean, you have to remember now, we had this on a work day in the middle of a pandemic, and for tens of thousands of people to come out is a signal to the white house that people are energized to come out to vote. they will come out and stand up and did it peacefully because the tone is set at the top, unlike the president is doing to his supporters. not one incident with several hundred thousand people there, and you have no problems, no incidents and people ready to come out and stay out all day.

that's a signal of what they will do election day. if i was the white house between the polling and the turnouts, i think i would be very concerned because it shows a determination against this kind of divisive, hate-filled atmosphere that this president has established. >> yamiche, any idea at the white house why the president melted down yesterday morning? he often melts down when things are going badly for him, but any idea why he melted down so badly sunday morning, firing off over 90 tweets starting before 6:00 a.m.? >> i don't think there's any official explanation for why the president does what he does on twitter, especially yesterday, but i think the things we've been talking about likely are the things weighing on president trump's mind. the idea that the tv president, the reality tv president, who sold himself as a showman, sold himself as a deal-maker, he has lower ratings than the

democrats. when you think about what he risk to really put on this event at the white house that was, i think, troubling, interesting, remarkable and somewhat dangerous, i think he put it all on the line and he's put it all on the line with this idea that if i do all this stuff, if i try to put the virus in the rearview mirror and say, we are going to get through this if i spread misleading information enough that somehow americans will believe me over the facts over my own health officials, and as a result i will be able to be re-elected, i think all of that is probably weighing on the president's mind. i also think the other big thing is there was, of course, this incredible civil rights march that reverend sharpton was just talking about. there were so many people on the door steps telling him, we don't like the way they're handling the virus, we don't like the way you're handling this racial reckoning. i think they understand the nation is coming to a head when it comes to civil rights issues. black people are simply fed up.

people of color understand they are being treated like second-class citizens and, frankly, white americans are waking up understanding the privilege they have and saying, this is not right. we're in a moment where everyone is recognizing -- even if you're a supporter of president trump, you're recognizing he is struggling with his response to this coronavirus and he is not someone who has shown historically the empathy needed to meet people at this moment when it comes to really connecting with people who are reeling from the loss of so many black men or the shootings of so many black men. still ahead, how the rage that fuels trumpism still burns. david ignatius weighs in with his new column next on "morning joe." from prom dresses... ...to soccer practices... ...and new adventures. you hope the more you give the less they'll miss. but even if your teen was vaccinated against meningitis in the past... they may be missing vaccination for meningitis b.

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you know, david, we look at the numbers of people that watched and donald trump's

ratings below on tv below joe biden and kamala harris's. despite the fact that as yamiche said, he had over 1,000 people commit this death-defying act where they jam together 1,000 to 1,500 people jam together, no masks or very few masks. on the same day that over 1,000 americans died from the coronavirus. and despite this high-risk gambit, the president appears to flatten the polls, his approval rating goes up -- his approval rating actually goes down. i'm curious your thoughts, for me, that defining moment where the president used the powers of his office the way autocrats do, and then risk the lives of thousands of people, if you multiply out the 1,000 people that were there.

>> joe, the white house is the most extraordinary stage in the world and trump's lighting artists and technicians set it off beautifully in the fact it was a donald trump selfishness to take that sacred national monument and use it for his personal uses. i felt donald trump had been in a freefall weeks before the convention. the story was his botched handling of the covid pandemic, that a country, the poll numbers suggested was scared by the way the president had mismanaged that crisis. i think the importance of the convention that it stopped the freefall. the polls have been bouncing all over the place, as we've been saying this morning, seem to be going in slightly different directions, so we'll just have to wait a few more days and weeks for them to sort out.

but i think trump's downward probably stopped and he's now introduced the idea that the country should be scared not of this terrible pandemic and his utter inability to dole wieal w, but the country should be scared about violence in democratically-controlled cities. that's the theme and that's what they're pushing hard. i'm sure we're going to talk in the show, how does joe biden, how does kamala harris respond powerfully to that so they don't let trump take that issue as rocket fuel for this last phase of the campaign and play to people's fears about violence and disorder in the country? but for the moment i think that issue is replaced, the concern about covid is the dominant theme in the race. i think that's a lot of why trump has got this seeming at least if not a bounce, he's subtled in a more stable position. coming up, an update from kenosha, wisconsin, and a

community torn apart by violence there. how the president is fanning the flames next on "morning joe." how they gonna pay for this? they will, but with accident forgiveness allstate won't raise your rates just because of an accident. cut! is that good? no you were talking about allstate and... i just... when i... accident forgiveness from allstate. click or call for a quote today. you can't claim that because it's inanimate! [ sigh ] people ask ... what sort of a person should become a celebrity accountant? and, i tell them, "nobody should." hey, buddy. what's the damage? [ on the phone ] i bought it! the waterfall? nope! my new volkswagen. a volkswagen?! i think we're having a breakthrough here. welcome to caesar's palace.

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a trump supporter. >> it's a tragedy. >> do you condemn that? >> it's a tragedy. >> do you condemn it? >> it's a tragedy. >> it's a tragedy but do you condemn it? >> the entire situation is a tragedy. i don't want to see any loss of life. it's a tragedy. the way you prevent tragedies is -- >> a tragedy could be a car accident. a tragedy is not based on fault. do you condemn it? >> you don't allow protests to turn siege into siege. i don't want to see anybody lose their life. i don't want to see businesses burnt down. i don't want to see economic destruction. i condemn it all. >> wow, that was -- >> he can't condemn a 17-year-old running around the streets, from out of state, by the way, from out of state, coming into wisconsin. he can't condemn a -- a kid coming into wisconsin with an ar-15 running up and down the streets killing two people.

>> what can you condemn? >> he can't condemn that. it's very interesting, it is very interesting, though, that, david ignatius, as, i would say, uninspiring, why don't we call it that, as ron johnson's performance was in that interview with dana bash, he actually is going first in condemning violence on all sides than our president seems to be doing. it seems joe biden, of course, is aggressively been condemning violence on all sides, but you have donald trump retweeting some horrific tweets, and praising this kid, who killed two people, a 17-year-old from out of state coming into state, running around, shooting people indiscriminately with an ar-15, but it seems donald trump is

only encouraging violence and fanning the flames if you just look at his tweet storms yesterday morning and last night. >> trump is using the violence for every bit of political opportunity he can. it's one of the most opportunistic things i can remember in presidential politics. it's just a terrible situation. americans turn on their tvs and they see images of the country coming apart. and trump is doing nothing that i can see to ease that division. i do think, joe, yes, you can line up clips of joe biden saying the right thing about violence and looting for a half hour, but he's going to have to do more than that. he's going to have to make an appeal with black and brown and other democratic party leaders that's effective.

he needs to show his coalition is able to do the thing that the country wants, which is to have justice and law and order. the three go together. they're not in conflict. and he needs to make that message clear and he needs to be successful. he needs to have some effect from that. i think if he does that, he'll show the country he's the leader we need right now. donald trump's argument about joe biden is he's a nice guy but he's too weak to stop these violent elements that are on the fringe of the party. biden needs to show, that's not true. i am a strong leader, here's evidence. if he can do that, he goes through this period stronger. >> i think, mika, one of the things he did that was really impactful was continue to remind people that this is donald trump's america. donald trump has been president for almost four years this is

actually the american carnage we did not have when he took over. i don't know if i've reminded our faithful followers of this or not, but crime was at a 50-year low when donald trump came into office. that's what he inherited. from barack obama. illegal border crossings across the mexican line, mexican/u.s. line were at 50-year lows. i was playing tee ball in georgia the last time they were that low. 3 1/2 years later, almost 4 years later, we have chaos, chaos in large part. yes, there are just some violent elements. the violent elements i've seen my entire adult life, whether it was environmental rallies in seattle and portland or whether it was, you know, rallies opposing the world trade organization, anarchists always glom on to legitimate protests and agitators always try to bust

windows, always try to loot, always try to do what they do, but this is especially bad. this is donald trump's america, and in large part, this continues because we have a president that has been fanning the flames from the very beginning. of course, june the 1st is the most dramatic example where he attacked, had his forces, he and barr had their forces attack peaceful protesters in lafayette park. even before that, he was talking about his dogs, i could go out and rip people to shreds. >> cutting through it -- >> when the looting starts, troops that can cut through it like butter. he has been using violent imagery like fascists use, violent imagery. he has been doing everything he can to fan the flames. but all that aside, the reality he can't escape is that we are living in donald trump's

america. he owns this. this is the american carnage that actually he predicted. he predicted one thing correctly. he has created the american carnage he talked about that was not existing when he first took office. it's here now because of donald trump. >> just like he made the coronavirus worse rather than better. he's making this worse, many would argue. coming up, two top voices on national security, congresswoman elissa slotkin and mikie sher rel weighs in on president trump might use active forces for domestic purposes. that conversation is just ahead on "morning joe." d on "morning joe. no matter where you live,

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the president has always said he'll see what happens and make a determination in the aftermath. it's the same thing he said last november. he wants a free election, fair election and wants confidence in the election results particularly when you have states like nevada doing mass out voting and when they tried this pal bots were in trash cans, pinned to dartboards. with that being the system, the president wants to take a hard look at this and make sure they are fair election results and not subject to fraud. >> what was the white house press secretary being pressed by reporters on president trump's comments that the only way he could lose the election were if it were rigged. she declined to say trump could legitimately lose the election. those briefings are painful. it's hard to call them briefings. >> but, because they're not briefings. >> they're not. >> she continues to do what he

does. let's get to our guests. we have member of the armed services and homeland security committees, democratic congresswoman elissa slotkin of michigan and u.s. navy veteran and member of the house armed services committee, democratic congresswoman mikie sherrill of new jersey. i guess, elissa slotkin, i'll start with you. a lot to talk about, the president could potentially use the military domestically, but i want to start with his plans to go to kenosha, despite the governor saying, not such a good idea. what do you make of that and do you think the president could make matters worse? >> listen, the measure of any leader is do they unify people or divide people? do they calm the waters or do they make the waters more troubled? i think in this case we hear from the governor himself that these are the kinds of actions his visit would make more troubles. so i think the president should do the right thing, respect the local leaders.

he's all -- when it's in his favor he's all about talking about local leaders. let them make the determination of what will be troublesome for their community and i think his visit is a mistake by that measure. >> we hear concerns wherever we can, i'm sure you do, too, if donald trump loses he's somehow going to get the military to line up on his side and keep him in power by any means necessary. i'm deeply skeptical of that, especially given what general mi millie said after the june 1st debacle. we've gotten some reassurances. >> we asked some foundational questions about our military and our secretary-general. i served in the navy for almost

ten years and you never take anything like this for granted, whether it's rules of engagement or flying in foreign air, you make sure everyone understands the rules. i was pleased that general milley responded to our questions and gave us the answer we thought he would. >> do you have any reason to believe -- by the way, i'm so glad that you and over leaders are taking the approach they're leading. we should assume absolutely nothing because i personally believe this president would do whatever he thought he could get away with. i just noticed after june 1st the words in not only general milley but retired admirals and generals who have such a powerful impact on active duty generals and admirals that there was no wiggle room here. that the military would not get involved in keeping any president in power if the voters

voted that president out. >> certainly, that's my anticipation. we've heard from respected military leaders that take issue with the president's actions, with our federal military, and that's why representative slotkin to it was important to put this on the record, what our military does and areas our military should not be involved. >> jonathan lemire is with us and he has a question for representative slotkin. >> congresswoman, good to see you. it's not a military matter, per se, although the president has raised the possibility of using military on american streets. let's remember, of course, with the insurrection act earlier this summer he very much went down that road and received pushback from his add am. could you weigh in, though, on what you're seeing in cities like, say, portland, where there

is a significant federal presence on these streets, whether it be fbi or homeland security, and whether you think that's been an appropriate use of federal resources in these jurisdictions? >> well, again, you know, i'm a big believer in our federalist system, and local officials should be consulted and they should approve when you have federal officials come in. we've seen officials in portland talk about how some of those federal officials have been unhelpful. i can't stand watching the violence on tv every day in portland. i think there's lots of ways to protest without it coming to violence. again, it's the responsibility of the administration to calm things down. i don't think it looks like the federal troops have been helpful in that scenario. if we see it continuing right now, the violence there every single day. so i think it's going to be very important we hold the president and the administration to these standards, these very american

standards. the bar for putting in federal troops should be very, very high and in coordination with local officials. >> every democratic leader i've had on this show, civil rights leader i have on this show, i've asked the same question. i will ask the same question of both of you really quickly before moving on because you brought it up, representative slotkin. representative slotkin, while supporting the marches, do you denounce in the harshest of terms any violence, any looting, any illegal activity that takes place in any of these marches, be it in seattle, portland, kenosha, chicago or any other city in america? >> categorically. if you destroy property, it's a felony. if you perpetrate violence, you should be held accountable of that. regardless of whose side you're on, regardless of what you think of the protesters, violence should not be tolerated and

treated with law enforcement accordingly. >> have you been disturbed by what's going on in portland even before donald trump sent federal troops to portland and even after they left? >> yeah, i just don't think it's helpful. i think we've seen amazing responses since early june when george floyd was murdered. protests in the street and peaceful operations going on. in my communities here in michigan, small towns, big cities. and the power of those movements is palpable. but the minute they become violence, they lose their effectiveness. i think it's really important for anyone protesting and exercising their first amendment rights, just don't go there. try as much as you can. i hope the leadership of these organizations do that because it's critical that we're able to communicate our views without using and, frankly, giving an excuse to anybody to say there's law and order problems in our cities. >> of course, the important thing to always note, and i will do it again here, 25 million

people have marched since the murder of george floyd. and the overwhelming number of those 25 million have marched peacefully. representative sherrill, i'll ask you the same thing. do you denounce the violence? >> seems to simple. >> but it doesn't seem to be simple. we're put in this either/or world where you're either for the marchers or you're against violence. that's just a lie. and so, representative, all the small business owners whose family businesses have been destroyed, all the loot iing th we have seen as a side note to the 25 million people marching, do you denounce all of that violence, all of that looting, all of that property damage in the harshest of terms? >> i certainly do, joe. we know what works. from martin luther king to

gandhi, we know peaceful protests are at the heart of change. that's when they're so effective. we've had that throughout new jersey. many times we've even had our protesters working with law enforcement to ensure we have peaceful protests. i have to reiterate again what representative slotkin said, in order to continue this way, with he need leadership and a president who is going to calm the waters, who is going to make sure people have theability in our democracy to peaceful protest, to not encite violence and not continue to escalate the situation. >> i should -- so whe played a long clip at the top of this hour and the top of the 6:00 hour all the times joe biden has condemned the violence and yet it does not seem to be enough for donald trump and republicans that support donald trump. do you believe joe biden, each of you, should do even more than

continually condemn the violence as he has since june? >> sure, i definitely think so. i think it's important that people hear that message directly from him. obviously, it's harder to get these messages out sometimes during covid. you know, i had an event, public event, socially distanced event this weekend. there was a group in the same area who were doing a blue lives matter protest. i think it's important, this isn't an either/or. we're not trying to make this one group against another group. we can be deeply supportive of protesters of all kinds and deeply believe in the rule of law. i think vice president biden has done a good job of communicating that, but it just needs to be at the beginning of his sentences constantly since the president has clearly taken this up as an issue he's going to champion and use through the rest of the election season. he's just got to keep reiterating it to as many

audiences as he can. >> i think it would be important -- oh, excuse me. >> go ahead. >> i just think it would be important as well for vice president biden to remind people that this has happened on president trump's watch. this violence across the country has happened and i think, in large part, because this president has failed to be a unifier in this country. he's failed to bring people together. he's failed to show this country a path forward like a good leader would. i think that's something vice president biden should bring up as well. >> i would love to hear from both of you quickly where your districts stand in terms of the coronavirus, how your numbers are and what you're hearing from constituents about their sense of their safety? mikie, i'll start with you and then elissa. >> well, right now here in new jersey, weave done a good job at getting our numbers down. as you know, we were hit in the

new jersey/new york area first and hardest across the country. we had the top of our outbreak in april, mid-april. we've brought our numbers down with contact tracing and testing. we have some of the most vidly available testing in the country. that has helped us to really drive those numbers down. unfortunately, though, many children, mine included, will be home schooled this fall because the rest of the country's numbers have soared. so, we've got to as a nation get the case load down. we've got to come together. we have to wear masks. we have to be six feet apart, wash our hands. all these things we don't just do for ourselves, we do for our community because we care so much about our community. >> elissa? >> i would just say same thing. michigan was walloped very early. similar numbers, just under new jersey and new york. while we've done real yeoman's work to get our case numbers under control and we have sort of a mixed response community by community of whether kids are going back to full-time classes, the thing i'm hearing most about

now is this economic cliff we're looking at and businesses that have been hanging on since april and may are restaurants in particular who have been open but for outdoor dining mostly. they're looking at the fall, a lot of our businesses, saying i just don't know i can make it through and i'll be here next winter. and that is compounded by the fact we don't have another deal a covid and the states have massive holes in their budget. we'll start to see layoffs, police, fire, first responders just the exact people who have been on the front lines of this crisis and that's giving people a lot of tension. the economic cliff is what i'm hearing the most about right now. >> absolutely. congresswoman elissa slotkin and mikie sherrill, thank you for being on this morning. up next, jon meacham helps us remember legendary writer julia reed, who passed away this weekend. weekend. how about no

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if you can't afford your medicine, ♪ where everybody knows ♪ someyour name ♪ant to go ♪ and they're always glad you came ♪ applebee's. now that's eating good in the neighborhood. you're talking about meacham's crab -- >> jon meacham, your friend and all of ours, can be a little bit sarcastic sometimes. and -- but it is -- >> wordy as well. >> wordy. but it is to his great benefit that his wife and i have done lots of entertaining on his behalf and hosted parties for him and with him and all the

other things. imagine if meacham was planning his own party. so when we get into that mode he calls us the crab meat caucus. >> legendary writer julia reed on "morning joe" in 2013. julia passed away friday after battling cancer. she was 59 years old. according to our next guest, she was a tsunami of talent, charm and energy. let's bring in historian, fellow friend of julia's, jon meacham, author of the new book "his truth is marching on: john lewis and the power of hope." >> i like how he called her a foreign correspondent in her own country. >> i know. if we tried to invent a character like julia, jon wrote, nobody would have believed it. she was a tsunami of talent, charm and energy. she could write about anything and make it sing. her distinctive voice was once affectionate arch, a tough

combination to pull off. and, jon, i've got to say at least when she was around us, she had a lot of topics that she loved to cover, but none that she always went back to with more love and affection than her little brother meacham. >> well, i have not heard her say imagine what it would be like if i planned a party, which is a good point because it would be like a used book sale. >> julia, you know, we'd all read aloud. julia was a renaissance woman that distinctive, amazing, smokey scotch inflected voice which will ring in our hearts and our minds forever. i spoke to her wednesday or thursday, and i was just told i can't directly quote her which is because of family standards on the air, but it was -- she was the william shakespeare of

profanity. she could do things with profanity that -- and iambic pentameter. my father-in-law said julia could turn a perfectly lovely dinner into the alamo. and there's a lot to that. she was a master of prose, a master of just great living. most important, a master of friendship. and it's complicated and complex. but, boy, if she was with you, she was with you to the end. and i just urge people to -- read her stuff as much as possible. the thing about -- of course, this all begins, the journey begins, as with mika, at madera. and joe and i have talked about this before. the only women in life i'm genuinely afraid of all went to madera. one is mika.

the other is julia. >> well -- >> you know you actually -- you have long called mika bar. a loving comparison to barbara bush's fierceness but also a good bit of fear in there. but he's two madera women had one thing in common. they both knew the head mistress who didn't miss when she aimed her gun. >> and do either of you want to have the crime of passion debate right now? >> no, we don't. but, jon -- >> no, i'm good. >> talk about how julia's career started at "newsweek" regarding madera and feared madera women. >> so it was tuesday, march 11th, 1980. julia was a sophomore at georgetown. she had grown up in the mississippi delta. her daddy clark reed, our heart goes out to clark and judy today

down in greenville. it was the -- really the godfather, the founder of the mississippi republican party. he was a key figure in the years of nixon and ford and reagan and the bushes. and clark had helped get julia placed in "the washington post" bureau of "newsweek" as a telephone operator and library assistant. giving julia that much access to information as to being a telephone operator was probably like putting, you know, putin in charge of our affairs. it just wasn't smart. but she was this perennial intern. but as howard fineman and evan thomas and ed mcdaniel and others were called over the weekend, they loved her and reporters don't love anybody. so she's in her dorm in georgetown. the phone rings, and mele lfin, the washington bureau chief, has gotten the news that jean

harris, the head mistress of madera school, a lover of the scarsdale diet doctor had found another woman's lingerie in dr. turnour's bedroom and had accidentally shot him four times in the chest with a .32 caliber resolve f revolver. julia gets up. she knew the guards at the gates of madera because she had snuck out so often as a student. so they knew her. she had the password. and she goes in and does this amazing reporting on jean harris. this was for folks who don't remember, this was not quite o.j., but it was a big story. the murder of the scarsdale diet doctor. and julia just does what she did then, what she would continue to do. she took the human condition in all its complexity and all its

just craziness and told the story. and that inemitable voice. great writers -- great writers teach you how to see. it's a great phrase. they teach you how to see. and julia had the remarkable gift of being able to take you to a world to which she had access but you didn't. but because she saw it, you could see it. and that's the greatest gift a writer can give and it's the greatest gift a friend can give. >> and your obituary, in your remembrance of julia, you noted that julia had said after that she felt bad for the poor doctor. that she had to begin her career this way, but not that bad. >> well, crime of passion. >> not that bad. >> and jean harris was beloved.

>> well, the other great story, which she broke, and julia is also, i think, the only person in america who could prompt -- i received notes this weekend from both george w. bush and al gore. and there's not much that brings those two together. >> not much. >> but she broke the great story that early on, i think the 1978 congressional campaign down in midland, george w. and laura are driving home after a speech. george w. says, how did i do? and laura said, you were terrible, and he then drove into the garage wall. it was that kind of humor that she gave us. >> jon meacham, thank you so much for sharing, and she was amazing. that does it for us this morning. geoff bennett picks up the coverage right now. good morning. i'm geoff bennett in for stephanie ruhle. it's monday, august 31st. here's what's happening.

a new week, a new phase, and a new focus with just 64 days left. rising tensions and violent clashes across the country becoming a flash point and a rallying cry for this election. the president is set to visit kenosha, wisconsin, tomorrow, a little more than a week after the police shooting of jacob blake. but wisconsin governor tony evers is asking the president to reconsider. writing in a letter, i am concerned your presence will only hinder our healing. joe biden also is focusing on the unrest. the democratic nominee heading to pittsburgh today to ask voters one question -- are you safe in donald trump's america? it follows a weekend of protests all across the country. an investigation is under way in portland this morning after a deadly shooting there on saturday night. officials have not yet disclosed if it's related to the violence involving a caravan of trump supporters who rode through the city on saturday. this morning our team of