it's incredible. and you have people coming over with bags of soup, big bags of soup, and they lay it on the ground and the anarchists take it and they start throwing it at our cops, at our police, and if it hits you, that's worse than a brick because it's got force. it's the perfect size. it's like made perfect. and when they get caught, they say, no, this is just soup for my family. and then the media says, this is just soup. these people are very, very innocent. they're innocent people. these are just protesters. isn't it wonderful to allow protesting? [ laughter ] >> whoa, cans of soup, thugs on airplanes wearing black uniforms. people you've never heard of who were in the dark shadows. it's all from our president. he's just got these ideas of how things go down. >> don't even get him started on shower heads. >> oh, and toilets. >> toilets. >> the other thing that he won't mention.

>> just keeps -- >> good morning. >> 14, 15 times. >> welcome to "morning joe." it is wednesday morning. >> but the shower heads. >> yeah, he's obsessed with that. >> soups of can, cans of soup. >> along with joe and me, we have white house reporter for the "associated press," jonathan lamire, former aide to the george w. bush white house and state department, elise jordan, and nbc news and msnbc contributor shawna thomas is with us. and co-founder and ceo of axios, jim vandehei. >> did you always wonder why -- >> look at the numbers. geez. >> did you ever wonder why lamere always had a couple of campbell's soup cans? >> oh, there you go. >> in his backpack? thought it was like a and warhahl thing. no, it's violence. violent. >> the president's taking one angle here and digging deep. the president's visit to

kenosha, wisconsin, yesterday, gave another opportunity to promote healing and unity -- >> oh, great, that's good. >> -- after the unrest following the police shooting of jacob blake. you would think he met with the family -- >> i'm sure he did. >> and with local pastors and leaders and tried to unify at a time of such pain. the president, instead, chose to promote his campaign message of law and order. >> but wait, joe biden is also condemning violence, right? >> right. >> like every day, it seems. >> every day. >> so, why -- okay, so -- all right, yeah, we're all against violence. >> the president did not -- >> all for law and order. >> -- meet with jacob blake's family, but did speak alongside the kenosha police chief and county sheriff. jonathan lamire, you and zeke miller note in your write-up for the "associated press," "trump stood at the epicenter of the latest eruption over racial injustice and came down squarely on the side of law enforcement."

he dodged questions about systemic racism and took credit for quelling the violence that followed blake's shooting -- >> that's actually a lie. >> -- when the governor of wisconsin used his own authority to call in the national guard, in addition to federal reinforcement. the president made clear, even before he arrived in wisconsin the purpose of his visit. >> i'm speaking, really, today i'm there for law enforcement and for the national guard, because they've done a great job in kenosha. they put out the flame immediately. as soon as they came in, boom, the flame was gone. now maybe it will start up again, in which case they'll put it out very powerfully. >> mr. president, can you speak at all -- you've spoken a lot about the anarchy that you're referring to. what about racial divisions? would you like to bridge some of those gaps? and do you think -- >> yeah, i would, i would. >> -- that anything you're saying is helping with that? >> i think it's helping because i'm about law and order. >> do you believe systemic racism is a problem in this

country? >> well, you know, you just keep getting back to the opposite subject. we should talk about the kind of violence that we've seen in portland and here and other places. it's tremendous violence. you always get to the other side -- well, what do you think about this or that? the fact is that we've seen tremendous violence, and we will put it out very, very quickly, if given the chance, and that's what this is all about. you have people that joke. they're under tremendous -- i've said it yesterday -- i said it last night -- they're under tremendous pressure, and they may be there for 15 years and have a spotless record, and all of a sudden, they're faced with a decision. they have a quarter of a second, quarter of a second to make a decision, and if they make a wrong decision one way or the other, they're either dead or they're in big trouble. and people have to understand that. they choke sometimes. >> yeah. so, just like a three-foot putt. but again, the thing is, donald

trump's debating himself here. you actually have joe biden who's criticizing violence day in and day out -- >> but no mention of jacob blake? >> but joe biden is able to do two things at once. he's ablewo things at once. he's able to condemn the violence and also talk about the need for reform. you can do two things at once, but donald trump, sadly, as the "national review" said, is not bilingual in terms of, he can't talk about two things at once. he can't talk about -- >> yeah, he won't. >> and also, you know, joe biden also talked about cops yesterday, said, mainly good cops, and he understands every time they put on a badge and go out, they're putting their lives at risk. so, you have donald trump, of course, doing what joe biden's doing and talking about the difficult job that law enforcement has, except donald

trump won't talk about the other side of things, refuses even to discuss systemic racism. and the only thing he said about the 29-year-old that got shot is that he feels quite terribly for anyone who has to go through that. it's very interesting that also, john that lamere, as you pointed out in the "ap" article, donald trump keeps lying. i know this is not a shock. but what's a shock is that some people are still stupid enough to believe him. but he keeps lying about the national guard, talks about, well, when i called out the national guard to wisconsin. it's not how it works. donald trump didn't call out the national guard. he and his supporters, including former governors in that state, can lie all they want, but it doesn't change the fact that the current democratic governor of wisconsin is the one who called out the national guard, something that the democratic governor of oregon should have done a very long time ago.

but let's just talk about that part of the lie, that part of donald trump's misinformation campaign, about the fact that he's the one who called out the national guard and things immediately calmed down. >> well, joe, first of all, as best we can tell in the few hours the president spent on the ground yesterday, he did not face anyone armed with a can of french onion or minestrone. >> thank god. >> so that is a positive takeaway from yesterday's event. but there seems to be little effort here to do any sort of healing across the divide or addressing the underlying issues, what led to this violence. to your point first. that's correct. the president, of course, for a few days, was calling for the national guard to be used. he has -- that has been his sort of reflexive go-to instinct throughout any times we've seen scenes of unrest, frankly, dating back since the george floyd protests kicked off in late may. but it was the democratic wisconsin governor, he was the one who made the decision. he summoned the national guard. but the president was quick yesterday, as we saw, to take credit for that, suggesting that

that was what has led to things to calm down in kenosha the last couple of days. so, we can fact-check him very easily there, that he did not do that, the governor did. but this is another moment. we've always seen this president have real trouble trying to reach across any sort of chasm here to the other side. he offered very little understanding, frankly, all summer long, about the idea of racial injustice, what fueled all of these protests. he mentioned, as we've said, jacob blake's name not once. he was pressed repeatedly in questioning why he didn't talk to the family. he said that he had talked to a pastor who was associated with the family and that they wanted a lawyer to be part of the meeting. he didn't want to do that. >> i didn't think the family -- >> yesterday he suggested that the mother, you know, was a very nice woman by all accounts but did not pick up the phone to speak to her. and he also gave no credence at all to the underlying issues. he addressed the idea of police violence on black men not once.

he sided solely with law enforcement, playing into what, of course, was at its start a political visit. this is the argument he has been making. this is the argument they want to make, that joe biden is under the control of the radical left. it's those forces that are tearing american cities apart and president trump strong with law and order is keeping things safe. that was at the heart of yesterday's visit, joe. >> well, and then there's this. a few new national polls out this morning. the usc/dornsife tracking poll finds joe biden with a ten-point lead on president trump, 52%-42%. latest "usa today"/suffolk university poll finds biden leading trump by seven points nationally, 50%-43%. that lead has narrowed from the 12-point edge, the former vice president held in june. and then there's this new polling out this morning from grinnell college, conducted by well-known pollster of "the des

moines register," which finds that biden holds an eight-point lead over trump nationally, 49%-41%. let's take a deeper look into the numbers in that grinnell poll, which finds that president trump's strategy of attacking the suburbs doesn't appear to be working. it's what you were saying yesterday, joe. looking at several key demographics, biden holds a 22-point lead among women, while president trump holds favor among men by six points. biden is also up with suburban women by 33%, among suburban americans by 23 points, and among urban americans by 26 points. biden also holds substantial leads among all americans under the age of 55. trump is leading among those age 55 and above. when looking at president trump's handling of key issues facing our nation today, just 39% approve of his handling of the coronavirus. 55% disapprove.

39% also approve of his handling of race relations. 49% disapprove. and 52% approve of his handling of the economy. 41% disapprove. >> so, jim vandehei, obviously, you're a wisconsin native. give us any insights that you have of what's going on up there. but also, look at ann seltzer's latest poll. we've been saying it for some time. it's fascinating. donald trump thinks he can talk about suburbia and the great american dream and talk about trying to keep low-income people out of neighborhoods because crime would go up. and the women, oh, the women -- >> we've got to protect our women. >> worrying about women's safety when low-income people come in. it's all very racially tinged. and he thinks this 1953 appeal to white suburban voters is going to work. it just, predictably, seems to

be backfiring because it's why white suburban voters started running away from him, you know, after charlottesville. >> yeah. so, really interesting thought experiment that i did on sunday. i went into, like -- basically, i do truly now believe we have like a tribal world where we live in different bubbles. so i went into the trump bubble. i listened to ben shapiro. i listened to a tape of rush limbaugh. i looked at the top trending stories on facebook, all of them from right-wing sites, and watched fox news. it's not just donald trump who's talking about this. this is all that the infrastructure of sort of the modern republican party is talking about this. you would think that every city is on fire, that every city is being looted, that donald trump is the one man who stands up for law enforcement. and their belief is -- and i do think you're right -- their belief is that, eventually, that will get people, even if they won't tell a pollster, get them to vote for donald trump because they will be scared stiff by

election day. i have no idea if it will work, but there is no doubt that this is not just donald trump anymore. it is the entire infrastructure. and i think it's an infrastructure that most people in the media don't pay that much attention to, so they don't realize the implication of that. and it works both ways. a lot of the conspiracy theories he was talking about in that fox news interview, they're polled from some of the top trending items that move on facebook. and so, there was a great piece that everybody should read that was in "the new york times" last week about understanding facebook. if you put your head inside the facebook machine, most of the stories that travel and get the widest audience tend to come from ben shapiro, franklin graham, breitbart, sites and people that most americans aren't paying attention to, but people on facebook are, and that is the trump base. and now the question is, over the next couple weeks, do we start to see those polls move, private polls or public polls? so far, we don't. and i think you're right, so far, you're not seeing success in that strategy.

but if you're donald trump, and the hand you have to play is, i can deal with the coronavirus where we have 180,000 deaths. we're not making that much progress in being able to cure it and there's a lot of economic devastation that's flowing from it. i could talk about that, or i could go to kenosha and i could say i'm the law enforcement guy. from a political standpoint, you're going to choose the law enforcement guy approach, and that's what he is all in on. and we'll see if it works. >> yeah, we'll see. and shawna, there is that bubble that jim vandehei's talking about. it's also a bubble that mitt romney and people who supported him in 2012 stayed comfortably inside of, believing gallop polls that had them up 11 points, believing every report on fox news. i remember even election night -- i'm sure you do, too, in 2012 -- you still had people on fox news insisting that mitt romney was going to win and that things were looking better in

ohio. and the romneys were in shock that night, as were many people, because they were inside that bubble. well, that bubble has only become smaller and intensified even more, and actually, gotten far more outlandish, especially if you look at the crazed conspiracy theories that the president is now spitting out that he finds on facebook from qanon members. >> yeah, and sort of what's interesting about jim talking about living in that bubble for a day, is we also know the president does live in that media bubble because that media diet, whether it's fox news or ben shapiro or whatever we want to talk about, also compliments him on how he is talking about law and order. so, if he sees this on tv, he sees the people that he likes because they are saying good things about him, saying, this is the information that we want. we want to talk about,

quote/unquote, law and order, whether that is actually sort of a racist coded term or not. and we want you to do that. and if he does it, then his ego is fed by the fact that he's doing it. and so, it just keeps repeating. and you know, taking a look closer at those numbers that mika was talking about from the ann seltzer poll -- i saw that 39%. there are 39% of people who approve of how president trump has worked on coronavirus and race relations. so, that's his base. 39%, that's his base. he knows that this is working with them, and he is not going to stop. and from a purely political point of view, the things he said while he was in kenosha yesterday, when asked directly about systemic racism, when asked about, you know, is there a way that we can try to bring people together, that kind of thing -- the people who want him to talk about that, the people who are marching in the streets, he also knows most of those people are not voting for him. i mean, the people who are

peacefully marching, wanting to talk about police reform, wanting to talk about systemic racism, wanting to hit these things on the head that are deep-ingrained problems within america, he already knows they're not voting for him, but he knows that the people who are part of that media diet, that loop, that 39%, those people are going to vote for him, so that is what he is going to keep talking about. jonathan was right, this was a political trip, and he is doing from a political point of view what he thinks he needs to do to do the one thing he seems to actually care about, which is winning re-election. >> well, and his one goal -- he's got one goal right now. elise, he's got one goal right now, and that one goal is to have every american forget about what's in the lower right-hand side of our screen, and that is

that 185,000 americans are dead from a pandemic that in january donald trump said was one person coming from china. in february, he said it was -- at the end of february, he said it was 15 people. and soon, it would be down to zero. in march, he told worried republican senators, don't worry about it, it's going to go away, we're doing a great job. also told african-american ministers, don't worry about it, it's going to go away, just like magic. it's going to go away. then started pushing hydroxychloroquine. this was going to be the miracle drug. and the fda had to put out a message for americans, saying, please, no, don't listen to the president of the united states. we know, we're in this administration, but this could kill you. don't listen to him. they had to do the same thing when he started talking about putting bleach inside of bodies

as disinfectants. kept saying, it's going to magically go away. it's going to go away in april. 185,000 americans now dead. kept underplaying it, saying it wouldn't come back in the fall, it was going to magically disappear. he's continued to say, that it's going to magically disappear. and he's hoping. and all of those people in the trump media complex that spend their days trying to protect and trying to defend the undefensible, engaging in anti-anti-trumpism with all of their might -- they just want americans to forget that there are 185,000 dead americans, in large part because of how donald trump has mishandled this from

the very beginning. and they believe that if you can focus on kenosha or you can focus on the idiots that are running portland, that somehow, you'll forget that 185,000 fellow americans are dead now from a virus that donald trump said was going to magically go away in march. >> joe, i just keep going back to the iraq war and my experience as part of the bush administration during the years when we were maybe trying to project a better image of what was going on in iraq. and as one of my mentors at the u.s. embassy baghdad told me, you know, elise, there's not really any good way to spin a par bomb. and that's what's happening right now with coronavirus. the trump administration can try to give contracts worth hundreds of millions of dollars to pr

firms to make the american public believe that coronavirus is under control and to feel calmer about it, but at the end of the day, if the ground reality doesn't match, then it's all null and void. and looking at those numbers from the most recent poll, 39% of the country approves of donald trump's handling of coronavirus, 52% approve of his handling of the economy. the economy is now a second-tier issue when coronavirus just supersedes everything because the economic recovery is so tied up in what happens with coronavirus. and so, donald trump can go around and do fake photo ops in kenosha with the ex-owner of a business who was burned because the real owner won't actually stand with him. that was the photoshop. he can't really believe this stuff entry happens.

but at the end of the day, over 180,000 americans have died. that's like 100 "titanic" sinkings, more than vietnam, by far. i mean, we really are in a dire state of affairs. >> it's three vietnams already. more people have died in america of this virus that donald trump told us we didn't have to worry about -- >> look at the number on our screen. >> i know. >> 186,000 people. 1,000 a day. a 9/11 every few days. i mean, this is as clear as it gets in terms of the president's inability to handle something that really did require some simple science, when it came down to it. >> and you know, mika, there really was a difference between donald trump's approach and how joe biden would have acted -- >> he let us know in january, joe biden did. >> at the same time that donald

trump was in davos telling us it was just one person going in from china and would be gone soon in january, you actually had joe biden writing an op ed for the "usa today," saying, mr. president, we are not prepared for the pandemic. mr. president, listen to your scientists, listen to your doctors, let them talk to americans, let them lead us through this crisis. >> yeah. yeah. >> and he didn't listen. he kept saying that it was a media hoax. he's still saying it's a media hoax. his supporters are still saying it's a media hoax. and 185,000 americans are dead and their families would be deeply offended by the suggestion that this is somehow some political hoax that will magically go away after the election. >> and i would love to believe that he's stupid, but he actually willingly led a

republican national convention at the white house, 1,500 people, many not wearing masks, squished together. he held a superspreader event at the white house. >> he did the same thing in tulsa. >> he did. >> he did the same thing -- >> and people died. >> -- in arizona. and you saw numbers going up in all of those places. but you know, mika, this morning in wuhan, children are going back to school. this morning in new york city, children are not going back to school. you compare the number of deaths in america -- not infections -- deaths in america with europe -- >> and look at them right there. >> -- and the rest of the world. and despite the fact we only have 4%, 4.5% of the world's population, we have about 25% of the world's death. >> there is belief -- >> it has nothing to do with testing. testing doesn't make you pregnant. testing doesn't kill you. it's not about the testing. it's about people drawing their last breath from a virus that

you said was a media hoax. >> and that number you see there is probably an undercount. let's get to some of the other stories we're following this morning and then we'll continue this conversation. senator ed markey held off a primary challenge from representative joe kennedy iii, handing the kennedy family its first ever electoral loss in massachusetts. a kennedy spokesman said the congressman called markey last night and congratulated him on his win. kennedy called markey last night. with about 75% of the vote counted, markey held an eight-point lead over kennedy. the "associated press" called the race for markey with about 40% of the vote in, and markey holding a 20-point lead over his challenger. the primary battle intensified in recent weeks with kennedy hammering markey over decades-old votes on bussing in the 1994 crime bill.

markey, meanwhile, focused on kennedy's family, playing off president john f. kennedy's famous line "ask not what your country can do for you, ask what you can do for your country." markey said, "with all due respect, it's time to start asking what your country can do for you," given the time we're in. >> so, jonathan lamire, you are a massachusetts native. talk about the race a little bit. and man, i must say, i know ed, and i know joe kennedy, and they're both really good guys. and i think most people i spoke to from the start of joe kennedy's career said that he was, perhaps, one of the most gifted kennedys in a generation and would do very well. i've just been puzzled from the very beginning why he would choose to run against ed markey, a fairly progressive democrat, at the same time most democrats

wanted to focus on one thing, and that was the defeat of donald trump. it never made sense from the beginning. >> it's an extraordinary thing, a candidate with the last name kennedy, the members of his family have never lost a race until last night. i believe now the record is 26-1. and you're right, congressman kennedy is seen as someone with a bright future and there's a sense that perhaps he rushed into this race when he was not ready. senator markey is one who is well thought of mostly in the senate and throughout congress. his record, he really touted his sort of progressive bona fides. he received a key endorsement from aoc and he was backing the green new deal, which was seen as very popular in massachusetts, which was a deep blue, liberal and growing more liberal with more college-educated residents, more than any in the country, i believe. and i believe there's a sense here there's a few factors at play. this is a state with a very

popular republican governor who was not going to be challenged there, who may be eyeing a seat as well at some point. this is also a state that has senator elizabeth warren, who, if were she to get into the cabinet, you know, that seat would vacate. so there were many arguments why if joe biden were to win, there were many arguments why congressman kennedy should have waited. there was a sense, though, that if he had forced himself into the race, perhaps senator markey would step aside, would retire. he's been there a long time. that, of course, didn't happen. he ran a strong campaign, ended up winning by a fairly healthy margin. and what happens with congressman kennedy next is unclear. he didn't want to wait. our friend, mike barnicle was suggesting, when we were talking to him, that it was in part because he thought congresswoman ayanna pressley was also eyeing a senate seat down the road, so kennedy decided to jump in now and comes out of it with a pretty shocking defeat. for people who don't follow massachusetts politics that closely, a kennedy lost. all right, still ahead on "morning joe," president trump sparks new questions about his

health after posting a tweet denying that he went to walter reed medical center last month after suffering a series of mini strokes. and as we go to break, our producers may have uncovered the ringleader behind the group of soup-throwing anarchists that the president was so concerned about. >> okay. i want to see this. >> here you go. >> and then they have cans of soup. soup. and they throw the cans of soup. >> this is a can of campbell's soup. >> a can of soup, you can really put some power into that, right? >> in the can of campbell's soup, there's about 2.6 cents -- 2.6 pennies worth of steel. >> when you have people coming over with bags of soup, big bags of soup. >> well, i just bought this can today at a 7-eleven. >> and then when they get caught, they say, no, this is soup for my family. they're so innocent. this is soup for my family. >> well -- okay. >> very nice. all right. ell -- okay.

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fox news aired more of president trump's interview with host laura ingraham, in which the president referenced a false conspiracy theory about the cdc and coronavirus deaths. take a look. >> and by the way, i saw a statistic come out the other day, talk about only 6% of the people actually died from covid, which is a very interesting -- that they died from other reasons -- >> well, they had co-morbidities, which you've gotten criticized for, because there are co-morbidities. for every covid death, i think 70%, had two or three co-morbidities, but the covid may have been the key morbidity to hit them, but bottom line -- >> but it's an interesting statistic. >> i read what's fascinating is laura in real time was a fact-checker throughout the entire interview. >> yeah. yeah. i mean, or -- she was trying to

tell him to stop saying certain things -- >> well, she's just correcting, actually, in real time, what he said. over the weekend, president trump retweeted a post that falsely claimed that the cdc had updated its numbers to, quote, admit that only 6% of people listed as coronavirus deaths actually died from covid. good lord. twitter removed it. it's so bad, twitter -- twitter won't remove a conspiracy theory that the president says about you, but it will remove this. that's how bad it was. >> yeah. >> it removed the tweet on sunday, saying it violated the site's rules. >> it's got to be bad when twitter is doing something. >> misleading the american people. the tweet was by a supporter of the baseless qanon conspiracy theory. what the cdc actually said in a report published last month was that for 6% of the deaths, covid-19 was the only cause mentioned. according to the agency, the other 94% of coronavirus deaths were people who had underlying conditions, which makes a lot of

sense. >> and this is, shawna, what we were talking about earlier, when we said that donald trump was pushing conspiracy theories, saying this was a conspiracy theory back in march, that the media was drumming up, and now he's basically saying the same thing now, pushing conspiracy theories by his definition. if family members of mine who have diabetes, that have asthma, who are otherwise perfectly healthy and live very healthy, productive lives, if they were to die because they got covid, then that shouldn't count towards a death from covid, which is absolute insanity. that's why we are protecting our family members. that's why americans, whether they're republicans or democrats, unless they're just absolutely out of their minds, are protecting their parents and

their grandparents who are more prone to catching this and dying from it. >> that's why i'm doing this show from my apartment and it's why i haven't seen my family in six months in texas because i want to protect my mother and father who do have co-morbidities because, you know, they're in -- well, i'm actually not going to say how old they are, because the last time i did that, my mother got really mad at me. >> it's okay, mom. >> but it goes back -- yeah, but it goes back to what we have been saying for months. if the president would take a step back and let health experts and dr. fauci and the cdc, and not put politics into the cdc and let them do their job so that the information that's getting out there is more clear to people, so that people aren't as confused about what is going on and what they should do, he would probably be doing better in this election. and i realize the polls are

tightening, and i think the polls were always going to tighten as we got closer to the election and people were going to start paying attention. but this is -- this actually isn't hard. i mean, beating covid-19 is hard. what scientists are doing is hard. what doctors and nurses are doing right now is hard. but what he has to do politically with respect to this, with respect to the campaign, is just project some kind of amount of stability and let the doctors talk and let people get some kind of clear idea of what they should be doing as we go forward. and when he does this fox news interview -- and i also want to point out that, you know, laura was really trying to help him in that interview a lot, trying to get him out of some of the issues that he walked into, because we are talking about these sound bites now. but he just has to say, hey, i want the doctors, i want the scientists to do the best job they can and not have everyone

second guess this. but if, you know, what kellyanne conway said is to be believed, this also goes into the idea of confusion, of people being scared. and he appears to think, and this campaign appears to think, that all kinds of levels of fear and feeding into it will eventually help him. so, i mean, what else is there to say? >> yeah. and jim vandehei, the problem is, as we've said from the very beginning, this is an economic crisis because we have a health care crisis. and, my god, so many business owners -- and i keep going back to restaurants. it's just because i know friends who own restaurants. they seem to be disproportionately impacted. but you look at retailers, you look at small family-owned businesses across america. they are suffering, and they can't afford too many more

shutdowns and lockdowns. and it's just not helpful when the president is running around spouting conspiracy theories and still not approaching this head on like he should have done from the very beginning. there is an impact on whether americans feel safe to go back to businesses, go back in restaurants, send their kids back to school. >> and unfortunately, it's not just now. not to be a real downer. when we do get a vaccine, if you look at polls, because people don't trust the information coming out of the government, because you have a certain segment of society, small, but real, that are anti-vaxxers, you have people who aren't going to take the vaccine. you look at polls, and some of the polls show a third of the people are very skeptical about taking vaccines. they don't trust what's coming out of government. they feel like they're getting mixed messages. they question the science. and if, god willing, we get a vaccine, we want people to take it. we want to be able to get back to normal. we want to go back to work.

and that's where, like, every day we obviously harp on the misinformation coming out. it's going to have huge consequences. the only way you get out of this mess is you find a vaccine that works, that's been validated by real science, and you get it distributed at scale to the people who need it most, and then you kill the virus. and then life becomes what we want it to become again. but right now, the misinformation's killing that. you have people talking about the plasma debate, about whether or not we're putting out studies that are not based on real science, not based on validated science. and all it does is sew more distrust, and that is fundamentally the weakness of democracy right now is that so many people don't believe reality. >> yeah, yeah. >> and mika, when the president lies about hydroxychloroquine, when he pushes it in his own -- and his own government has to come out and say, don't listen to what the president's saying -- when he pushes on convalescent plasma the way he has, and then he has to be

corrected there, even people who are not anti-vaxxers -- >> right. >> -- are starting to say, wait a second, if he's pushing all of this and then he's -- you know, we're hearing now that the fda is not going to go through normal processes for -- >> yeah. >> -- the vaccine? am i really going to give it to my child? i mean, and -- and for too many people, the answer is, no, not right away, because, well, in large part, mika, because, again, jim brought up the convalescent plasma. >> right. >> we know what's happened there. >> well, i have that. and it's just part of this whole government by gesture, by announcement, by, you know. he puts out these pronouncements. and often, it may not be about something that people across america think about every day -- maybe a foreign policy or about trade or whatever. some of them may. some of them may. too busy. but about science and about our health, his lies fall flat.

and i don't think he understands that he gets called out by the day by people who know a lot more about it, yet he pushes this confusion. >> in his own administration -- >> that's right. so, a panel from the national institutes of health says there is no evidence to back the use of convalescent plasma to treat coronavirus patients. the committee of more than three dozen experts released a statement. they had to do this, of course. saying that the data is too insufficient to determine the efficacy and the safety of convalescent plasma for the treatment of covid-19. everybody's looking for treatments. everybody wants to be able to deal with this pandemic. the panel also emphasized that convalescent plasma should not be considered standard of care for the treatment of patients with covid-19. no. the statement was posted less than ten days after the food and drug administration authorized emergency use of the treatment. the announcement -- >> and made a misstatement.

>> that's right. >> lied about how much it helped americans. and corrected that. >> the announcement was reminiscent of when the fda rescinded the emergency use authorization for hydroxychloroquine in june, three months after the authorization was first issued, amid president trump's repeated praise of the drug, who even said in may that he took the medication to prevent covid-19, despite any evidence it would work. >> okay, let's bring in right now -- >> it's crazy! >> "morning joe" chief medical correspondent dr. dave campbell. and dave, mika talked about government by gesture. if i'm not mistaken, i believe this was the president's grand gesture -- >> mm-hmm. >> -- before the rnc. he had the fda come out, provide emergency use. he got his big headline. and here we are ten days later, the nih saying, no, no, this shouldn't be standard of care yet. and the reason why is not because it may not work down the

road, but right now there's just no evidence, because as it was with hydroxychloroquine, in this case with convalescent plasma, you have donald trump pushing this for political reasons so he can have the grand gesture before scientists and doctors agree that it's the right thing to do for their patients. >> you know, the grand gestures don't work well when looking for scientific information that's validated and understandable. so, the convalescent plasma kerfuffle that we can say happened over the last ten days really has to do with getting ahead of ourselves with understanding the data. there was insufficient evidence for or against convalescent plasma, according to this nih panel. there was also a complete lack of long-term understanding of the possibility of a particular

risk called attenuation, where the convalescent plasma possibly -- and we don't know -- could make it more likely that you could become infected. so, the nih coming out with this clarification of their position through a panel really helps to make the country understand a little more clearly that the science needs to lead, and we can't get ahead of ourselves, in various treatments where we could find that we are causing harm. >> so, dr. dave, let's try to bring some good news to this bleak story. 185,000 americans have died, obviously. we're all very concerned. epidemiologists, doctors, scientists have been concerned for six months about what happens in the fall. but at least right now, as we move into september, the "wall street journal" reporting this morning that it appears that, for now, at least, infections

and deaths are ebbing a bit, that we may be slowing down a bit in some of the hotspots across america. tell us about that. >> well, i'm in one of them in florida, and the positivity rate is really dropping significantly, and they haven't opened up schools completely yet. a lot of virtual learning is going on, so we don't have that potential bump of a lot of schoolchildren bringing the virus home. we see face mask wear seems to be having an effect. if you can look at various different states, there are areas across the country where face mask wear is universal and others where it seems to be very sparse. but overall, we can be confident that by decreasing the numbers, seeing the numbers decreasing, that, perhaps, the public is getting the idea. and as we enter the flu season -- the flu shots are out now. so everybody can go to the drugstore or their doctor and get a flu shot.

so, perhaps, by having a lot of americans wearing face masks, socially distancing, washing their hands, perhaps we will mitigate the seasonal flu as we are also decreasing the coronavirus numbers. that's my optimism, joe. >> yeah. and thank you so much, dr. dave. >> thank you, dr. dave. >> as always, we greatly appreciate it. and mika, i'm feeling a little more optimistic that we're learning more about this pandemic, we're learning more about how to protect from this pandemic. we've been out to eat a couple of times, wearing masks. we had a sail. people talk about florida and a lot because of the governor, but when we go out, boy, most people that we're around are wearing face masks when you're within six feet of each other. >> mm-hmm. >> and seem to be socially distancing and respecting other people, regardless of how they feel about it. but also, you got on a couple of

commercial flights. >> i did. >> this past week. and were very comfortable with what you saw. >> well, i wore a mask, i wore gloves. gloves are complicated, but i did it the right way, i guess, if there is a possibility of that. and kind of just kept to myself. didn't eat, you know, didn't use any bathrooms or anything. and other people were doing the same. and i was flying american airlines, and they must have said on the loudspeaker five times, keep your masks on, we're going to be walking up and down the aisles to make sure you keep your masks on, and if you don't have your mask on, you can't fly on this plane. so, it seems as if, if you do it right, and i think if you're fairly healthy, i would feel comfortable if you wanted to go see a family member, which was the case for me. i wanted to see my daughter so badly. and just have a little time with them because the pandemic has kept people apart for a long time. i felt safe doing it.

i think that businesses are beginning to try and figure this out. the airlines certainly did, the airline i was flying. >> and you said also, most importantly, that other people on the plane -- >> everybody. it was quiet. >> they were very respectful. >> yeah. >> not a lot of talking. >> mm-mm. >> people had their masks on. and respected each other. and that's great. i hope a lot more people can start flying now. >> they recognize it. yeah. >> and help our airlines out, if the airlines, if they want to go see loved ones, if they want to go see relatives, if they want to start going back to work in other areas, making visits. i think we're moving to the point where we know enough about it, that if it's done safely, then we can go back to restaurants, we can get back on airlines, we can start doing these things, so long as we're surrounded by other people who respect -- >> right.

>> -- respect everybody else, and if you're within six feet of other people that you don't -- that aren't either friends or loved ones that you know, they've been socially distancing safely for some time, i mean it makes sense. >> it takes leadership, though. >> yeah. let's bring in senior writer at politico and co-author of "the playbook," jake sherman, he's an msnbc political contributor. jake, very good to see you! i'm curious. there are a lot of people suffering out there right now. not just healthywise, but suffering economically and really need republicans and democrats on the hill to come together with another aid package. do you see that is happening? what does your reporting tell you about the prospects of that? >> joe, don't hold your breath. it's going to be really tough. the next few weeks is going to be incredibly difficult because this conversation over nearly $2

trillion in covid stimulus, which as you know, businesses, individuals, and all sorts of people across the economy and across the spectrum need, is going to be caught up with the discussion over funding the government. the government shuts down at the end of this month, and the two sides have made literally no progress on either front and are coming back next week with just 11 days in session this month to spare. i know people are not focused on this yet, but i predict, joe, that we're going to come back on this show over the next couple weeks and talk about a staredown that really could end in a government shutdown just, you know, a month before the election. >> oh, boy. let's talk about a new poll that you all have, politico and morning consult have a new poll out gauging how americans feel the country's headed, on the right track or the wrong track. what are your findings? >> well, jim -- joe, sorry -- jim vandehei is in my mind, for some reason, and that is unfortunate -- but 28% of people believe that the country is

headed in the right direction, which is a scary number for the president. going into this month. this is actually quite stunning. joe biden has a 17% advantage when it comes to health care, which is, obviously, the top concern at the moment, which is unovercomable for president donald trump. but this is interesting, donald trump has a one-point advantage on the economy and a one-point advantage on jobs, which, you know, it's kind of amazing that here we are in the middle of this economic calamity, 10% unemployment. we've lost nearly 20 million jobs and donald trump still has this advantage on issues that he's been so battered over the head over, which, again, i'm not sure if this goes back to what vandehei said about tribalism or what it goes back to in a sort of large-scale political dynamic, but it's just amazing that he still retains these

advantages. >> yeah. so, elise, let's just look at some of these numbers that jake brought up. 57% disapprove of donald trump's performance as president of the united states. joe biden holds a 17% lead on health care. obviously, one of the key -- >> amazing. >> -- issues. and most damning, i think, for the president, right track-wrong track, only basically, one out of four americans believe that this country is on the right track. and almost three out of four americans, 72% say america's on the wrong track. it's just hard for me to see how an incumbent overcomes those feelings by the overwhelming majority of americans. >> joe, i'm like you, i just can't move beyond that only 28% of americans think that the country is moving in the right direction.

that's less than donald trump's base. it shows that even among his base, there are significant doubts about the trajectory of the country under trump's leadership. if you have barely one-fourth of the country thinking that your leadership is actually on track, that does not win you an election. it really seems difficult for that fundamental number to escape donald trump's political fortunes. >> all right. >> politico's jake sherman, thank you. >> jake with state farm, also. thank you so much. are you wearing khakis? coming up -- >> oh, my. amid nationwide unrest, president trump visits kenosha, wisconsin. he blamed the recent violence there on domestic terror, without actually addressing the reason for the anger and the protests. he also -- >> unbelievable. >> -- talked an awful lot about

soup cans over the past month. and then yesterday about conspiracy theories, teenage mutant ninja turtles on airplanes or something like that, i don't know. and of course, the president talking to people whose businesses were destroyed. some business owners refusing to be with him because they didn't want to be part of the business spectacle. but i want you to take a look at that. a lot of people -- a lot of people don't want to talk about how small businesses have been destroyed. they have. they have. small businesses have been destroyed. a lot of people have been put out of work, not just by the pandemic, but by violent action that went along with the peaceful marching of about 25 million people over this summer. we can hold two truths in our head at the same time. joe biden is doing that.

he's talking about the need for social justice, the need for police reform. and at the same time, he's condemning the violence, he's condemning the looting, he's condemning the lawlessness that people on the fringes of these protests are contributing to. and he's doing those two things. donald trump's not. and we saw that yesterday, unfortunately. this is a president that simply can't hold two competing thoughts in his mind at the same time. "morning joe" will be right back in a moment. time "morning joe" will be right back in a moment. ...to soccer practices... ...and new adventures. you hope the more you give the less they'll miss. but even if your teen was vaccinated against meningitis in the past... they may be missing vaccination for meningitis b.

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i think i did win the popular vote in a sense. i think there was tremendous cheating in california, in new york and other places. >> all right, a false claim by

the president who lost the 2016 popular vote by 3 million with no widespread voter fraud. >> and of course, that was based, if you go back several years, on he talked to a golfer who said he saw people illegally voting in florida and in california. and you know, this is a president of conspiracy theories, voter fraud, crowd sizes, soup cans, and he does it because he creates, again, this alternative universe. >> yeah. >> and we've actually had this written about a couple weeks ago. anne applebaum has written about it, where you create an alternative universe and you create these strawmen, and then you knock them down. you talk about, you know, teenage ninja mutant turtles all going on airplanes. and no, i don't have the information, but there were bad

people dressed in all black in these. i'll get the information to you. i can't tell you now. i'll tell you later. we'll tell you in a few weeks. this is what he does. and if you're wondering why he creates these conspiracy theories, it actually happens -- this is what autocrats do -- it's what they're doing in right now hungary. it's what they're doing in poland. it's what they do in russia. >> correct. >> they create -- and in poland right now, they tried muslims -- as i explained before, but ended up, there weren't enough muslims there. it didn't really work. of course, that hasn't stopped hungary talking about a muslim invasion, when there are hardly any muslims there, right? so, then poland turns to an attack on homosexuality, saying that it is the threat to the country and it's going to destroy poland. well, that's what donald trump's doing now. >> mm-hmm. >> he doesn't have a list of accomplishments that he can campaign on, so he's whipping up as many conspiracy theories as

possible, even refusing to condemn qanon conspiracy theorists, even refusing to push back on the theory that there is this international cabal of, what is it, pedophiles and cannibals, and donald trump is the savior to stop these cannibals and pedophiles from taking over. and donald trump won't push back on that conspiracy theory. you ask why. the reason why -- it's the same thing with all autocrats -- they create fear, they create the strawmen, and then, as ross said, when they take care of it, then they've done something as great as fdr or jfk or ronald reagan, something they accomplished. and of course, the biggest problem here is we know donald trump. we know his character. we've seen it over the past four years. the question is, why don't

republican senators speak out against this? >> this is the part that's upsetting. >> they just won't speak out. other than mitt romney. >> they're complicit. >> other than mitt romney, republican senators won't speak out against these vial conspiracy theories. >> i'm not sure how they can live with themselves. still, with joe and me, we have jonathan lamire, elise jordan and shawna thomas still with us. and joining the conversation, msnbc contributor mike barnicle, politics and journalism professor at morgan state university, politics editor at "the grio" and an msnbc political contributor, jason johnson is with us. and political reporter for the "washington post" and msnbc political analyst, robert costa. he's the moderator of "washington week" on pbs. great to have you all. >> so, mike, before we jump into our top stories, i want to talk to you. you know massachusetts politics as well as anybody, better than most. tell us what happened last night with ed markey and joe kennedy.

>> well, joe, i think it's pretty -- you boil it down to the basics. you've run for office before. you've gone door to door to door before, you know. you go to the door and people say, why are you running? joe, unfortunately, never really addressed that question. why are you running, joe? and why are you running now against ed markey? and what did ed markey do wrong? and joe got caught up in -- [ inaudible ] >> did we lose mike? we lost his audio. there we go. >> all right. it's sort of a contractual obligation that mike barnicle has, that every time we do a hit with mike, the first hit has to not work. and so, mike, as we can check that box off, let's try it again, mike. instead of going to somebody else, we'll try you again. >> let's go. >> and you made a great point. when you knock on the door and somebody says, "why are you

running?" you'd better be able to answer that in about five seconds. and joe kennedy, again, somebody that you've told me, bill del hann, a lot of people in massachusetts told me when he first came onto the scene, great kid. you're going to love this guy. he's got what it takes. and he is a great guy. but he could never really answer that question, could he? >> no. and -- question -- he did not answer that question sufficient -- [ inaudible ] >> okay. >> yep. >> well, that's the second. mike, sometimes that is what my grandmother would call gracious plenty. mike gave us more than enough there. bob costa, let me go to you. obviously, as jonathan lamire said last hour, this is the first kennedy that lost in the state of massachusetts. i think john said they're 26-1 there, but ed markey, man, he's a guy that people in massachusetts liked.

i always saw him as a progressive when i worked with him there. didn't really -- i just don't think there was a good theory of the case on why massachusetts voters should send ed home. >> and this contest wasn't necessarily a battle between personalities. senator markey has been in congress for decades. he's a low-key man. he's someone who's always been on the sidelines of american politics, working on things that are very frequently on the left wing of the party that don't get much attention. yet suddenly, he found himself in 2020 facing an unusual primary challenge from a member of the kennedy family. but he also found himself in the moment with the democratic party. he saw his own ideas, like the green new deal, coming to the floor of the democratic party in a new way, and he used that enthusiasm from representative ocasio-cortez and others to show himself as the candidate of the left, the younger generation that's frustrated. and represent yiven kennedy

ended up becoming more of the candidate of the older, more centrist liberal democrat in massachusetts, and it just wasn't enough. but i've covered representative kennedy for a few years now. i do not believe this is the last we've seen of him. he is someone -- >> oh, not e. >> -- who wants to have a career in public service. he will surely come back in some way. >> and now we have the audio feed from mike barnicle. state of the art. let's play it. >> okay, mike. >> in boston, massachusetts, i tell you. in boston, massachusetts. >> lame mire, you managed to spk to us via skype or however you're speaking. give us your rundown on the race and what happens next for joe kennedy? >> mike, we're thinking of you. please, come back. yeah, i think bob is exactly

right. i think that this is not the end of joe kennedy. and we've been discussing. there never seemed to be a real purpose to this race. so, some in the party, as we talked last hour, thought that he was rushing into this, that he wasn't ready. he surveyed the field, saw that it would be tough down the road with congresswoman ayanna pressley, would be a formidable challenger for the senate seat down the road in a future cycle, so he jumped in here. and i think there was a thought that the senator, senator markey, might step aside, bow out to the kennedy name, but he chose not to. and as we've been saying, and bob underscored there nicely, too, you know, he really sort of fashioned himself as the left-wing candidate here, the more liberal candidate. and the endorsement of aoc and the full-throated backing of the green new deal can't be overstated here. and we've seen this happening a lot in the democratic party right now, where in certainly in certain states and certain districts, those progressive voices are carrying a lot of

weight. and it should be noted, house speaker pelosi backed congressman kennedy in this race, so she took a loss in this one. aoc came out ahead, you know. and i think that it is now, as you say, joe, it was also something of a puzzle to some democrats, why this race happened at all, when the party really is focused solely on defeating donald trump, and of course, capturing the senate, if possible, this november. the senate seat certainly in massachusetts was never up for grabs. that was going to remain in the democratic party. >> all right. president trump visited kenosha, wisconsin, yesterday. and given another opportunity to promote healing and unity after the unrest that followed the police shooting of jacob blake, the president instead chose to promote his campaign message of law and order. he did not meet with jacob blake's family but did speak alongside the kenosha police chief and county sheriff.

he dodged questions about systemic racism and made clear, even before he arrived in wisconsin, the purpose of his visit. >> i'm speaking, really, today i'm there for law enforcement and for the national guard, because they've done a great job in kenosha. they've put out the flame immediately. as soon as they came in, boom, the flame was gone. now maybe it will start up again, in which case they'll put it out very powerfully. >> okay. >> mr. president, can you speak at all -- you've spoken a lot about the anarchy that you're referring to. what about racial divisions? would you like to bridge some of those gaps? and do you think that anything -- >> yeah, i would, i would. >> -- that you're saying is helping with that? >> i think it's helping because i'm about law and order. >> do you believe systemic racism is a problem in this country? >> well, you know, you just keep getting back to the opposite subject. we should talk about the kind of violence that we've seen in portland and here and other places. it's tremendous violence. you always get to the other

side -- well, what do you think about this or that? the fact is that we've seen tremendous violence, and we will put it out very, very quickly, if given the chance, and that's what this is all about. and you have people that choke. they're under tremendous -- i said it yesterday, i said it last night -- they're under tremendous pressure, and they may be there for 15 years and have a spotless record, and all of a sudden, they're faced with a decision. they have a quarter of a second, a quarter of a second to make a decision. and if they make a wrong decision one way or the other, they're either dead or they're in big trouble. and people have to understand that. they choke sometimes. >> oh, my god. it's just so embarrassing. >> the thing is, i, i mean, i understand. and we talked about it a good bit. if a police officer is running through a house and somebody comes out of a dark corner and they think they're holding a gun and they're charging at them, they have to make a decision in

a split second. but it's hard for any of us to put ourselves in that position. in this instance, you had a man walking slowly and deliberately back to his car, and he was shot in the back -- >> with two cops behind him. >> -- seven times. that's far different than missing a three-foot putt. i have missed a three-foot putt. i have missed a lot of three-foot putts. to compare that, though, to shooting a man in the back seven times, claiming he had a knife? two completely different things. but let's move beyond that, jason johnson, and let's just talk the pure politics of this. donald trump went to wisconsin so he could say, i support police officers. well, joe biden the day before said i support police officers. every time a cop goes out and

puts that badge on, i know that he or she is putting their life on the line for us. and most cops are good cops. joe biden also condemned the sort of violence that the president tried to use as his backdrop of those poor people who lost their business, had their business destroyed. joe biden condemned that yesterday. so, you have both of the candidates aligned with each other on supporting police officers and condemning violence, but then you go to the other side of the ledger. and one will not talk about systemic racism and will not even visit a man who got shot in the back seven times and is paralyzed, won't even call his parents. i mean, it -- mika, i don't see the political upside for donald trump, because he's not running against somebody who is

condemning police officers. >> right. >> he's not running against somebody who's justifying violence and looting. >> yeah, joe, and i think we even have to be careful about the language that the white house is using. for him to say he was going to sort of survey the damage. what's the greatest damage? the greatest damage is jacob blake. the greatest damage is two people killed by rittenhouse. those are the people who can't be replaced. they can't be rebuilt. james blake isn't going to -- jacob blake is not going to get his legs back with insurance. these businesses can be rebuilt. but the lives that were taken by rittenhouse and the man who will no longer be able to walk and play with his kids again, those things can't be fixed. so we can't even let the president pretend. we cannot let him use the language of going there to survey things, that he's actually not surveying. and here's the other thing that i think is really important from a political standpoint. i told you, i think the republicans stopped running a campaign two months ago. when they said we're not even going to come up with another stimulus for covid, they're just interested in trying to rig the election through the post office. but you also have to remember

that people throughout the state of wisconsin -- wisconsin is also one of the states that's really suffering economically, it's suffering because of covid, and the president has this crazy idea that he can turn a conflict into a small suburb into something that's going to change the votes to everybody in the state, and that's not going to happen because people's daily lives are not affected by kenosha. it is affected by covid and 30 million people being out of work. >> yes. >> joe biden's campaign unveiled a new television ad last night that includes portions of his speech this week condemning the violence in some of the protests around the nation. >> i want to make it absolutely clear, rioting is not protesting, looting is not protesting. it's lawlessness, plain and simple, and those who do it should be prosecuted. fires are burning and we have a president who fans the flames. he can't stop the violence because for years he's fomented it. but his failure to call on his own supporters to stop acting as

an armed militia in this country shows how weak he is. violence will not bring change. it will only bring destruction. it's wrong in every way. if our president, my language would be less divisive. i'd be looking to lower the temperature in this country, not raise it. donald trump is determined to instill fear in america because donald trump adds fuel to every fire. this is not who we are. i believe we'll be guided by the words of pope john paul ii, words drawn from the scriptures -- be not afraid. i'm joe biden and i approve this message. >> i'll tell you what, i'm a conservative -- >> it's powerful. >> some people would even condemn me as a law-and-order conservative. i've got to say, though, shawna, i look at donald trump and his approach to this issue, and i look at joe biden and his approach to this issue. it's not even a close call. joe biden is condemning violence

on both sides. donald trump is not. in fact, he's even offering support through tweets and through some of the things he says for a 17-year-old boy who got an ar-15, murdered two people, killed two people, and charged with murder by authorities, somebody from out of state saying he was protecting property that wasn't even his own. i'm sorry, this, even for the conservative law-and-order guy in me, this looks pretty clear cut. joe biden has the much stronger political argument, at least in my eyes. what do you think about that ad and what do you think about how this issue -- >> resonates. >> -- is setting up? >> well, i mean, i think it's interesting that that ad does speak to you, as you called yourself a law-and-order conservative. i'm not sure that is the moniker you want to use. but that it speaks to you

because i think that that is designed to -- >> i -- well, listen, if law and order -- let me just say, if law and order means that you're against looting and means that you're against rioting, that as we've seen from anarchists for years -- for years -- you know, i have no problem with people keeping streets safe. and i said, some people might condemn me as a, quote, law-and-order conservative. i've spoken out about what's been going on in portland for a very long time, and i will continue to speak out against it because i don't want, like john lewis doesn't want, like reverend al doesn't want, like a lot of people don't want, the peaceful marching of the 25 million people that came out in the black lives matter marches, i don't want that overshadowed. >> no, i understand that. i do think that the fact that the commercial speaks to you

says exactly what the joe biden campaign is trying to do. they are trying to speak to you. they are trying to speak to people that they think are already dissatisfied with president trump but also may not be considering voting. he's trying to figure out how to walk the line of doing the two things that we've been talking about, saying, condemning violence, condemning rioting, while also acknowledging that there is a larger problem in this country. so, i think the commercial does that, but the commercial also takes a turn and does try to define president trump. so, instead of just trying to, you know, say, i am not president trump, joe biden calls him weak. and we know that that is something that really riles up president trump. he doesn't want to be seen as weak. he wants to be seen as strong. he wants to be seen as, like, the strong president of the united states. so, i think what they're trying to do there is, you know, it seems like the tactic that they need to do right now, but it

also shows that this is kind of what the biden campaign is worried about, that that law-and-order message that the president is putting out there is something that they really, really do have to combat, and they're doing it by putting that pretty substantial buy behind this ad and running it in a lot of places. i think i read this is the largest buy they've done so far? so, it points to where they think they are starting to possibly have a problem with respect to the message of their campaign. >> and this is, elise, this is my point. i actually -- i don't think joe biden has a problem here. i think if you look at that ad, if you look at what joe biden has said, and if you look at what donald trump has done, they're so ham-fisted. you look at what they did on june 1st, and people in the white house, after the president attacked peaceful protesters in

lafayette park, they were high-fiving each other. they thought it was a brilliant idea to have him go over and hold a bible upside down. that hurt him with the numbers. i, again, i know other people don't think this. i actually think this is going to hurt him as well. i think joe biden is positioned perfectly, as you have donald trump, again, refusing to even condemn 17-year-old boys from out of state carrying ar-15s around to protect property that wasn't even his own and shooting and killing two people. >> joe, it's almost as if the trump campaign is trying to take something that is joe biden's general election strength, that he wasn't exactly at the forefront of leading criminal justice reform, that he was for the 1994 crime bill that led to

the gross overmass incarceration of so many african-americans in this country. and now, they're allowing him to showcase that, quote, law and order background. and i think it's smart that joe biden's campaign is not letting this rest, that they are not letting donald trump's attacks own joe biden as being someone that's for anarchy stand, that they're spending big to get these ads out. i thought the speech was masterful. i thought it said what needed to be said, made very clear, unequivocally, that joe biden does not stand for lawlessness, he doesn't stand for rioting, he doesn't stand for looting, and differentiating between those acts which should be prosecuted versus protesting for racial injustice. >> yeah. i think the ads are a master stroke. and jonathan lamire, i don't think we can emphasize this

enough, if we really want to explain to americans what's happening when the president goes to kenosha. tell everybody, yeah, and if they look, the lower right-hand side of the television screen and see that 185,000 americans have died from a pandemic that the president said early on was just being hyped up by the media and that the president's still lying about. jonathan lamire, their goal, is it not, is to distract people from the coronavirus and the president's terrible performance handling the coronavirus. that is their goal between now and election day, that americans will forget what a bad job he's done on a pandemic that will probably have killed 200,000 people -- 200,000 americans -- when he said it was just one person from china, it was going away, but it will probably kill

200,000 americans or more by the time people vote. >> joe, you simply could not be more right. i wrote earlier this week, as sort of a preview now of the stretch unof the campaign -- >> i did not even pay you to say that, jonathan lamire. i did not even pay you to say that. very well. the check's coming. >> yeah. i don't think i've ever been that sort of forceful in that, and i won't do it again any time soon, but in this case, you are right. >> thank you. >> and i think that -- sure. don't get used to it. the campaign, his advisers have said, and we wrote in recent days, they want to talk about anything else. they feel that any day in which the coronavirus pandemic, and obviously, the president's handling of the pandemic, is not the dominant story line, is a good day for them, or at least a day, one of his advisers put to me, a day they can win, try to win, to talk about something

else. yes, certainly in the last few days, last couple weeks, even, it's been in idea, the law and order, quote, the idea of the chaos in the streets. and certainly, there have been some disturbing images. we've seen them in portland, you know. the president did walk yesterday among burned-out storefronts in kenosha, although it should be noted, as elise pointed out earlier, he did not speak to the current owner of that store. that was a previous owner, because the current owner didn't want to appear with him because he thought that the president was adding to the tension in the town. >> wow. >> but this is their plan. they are going to -- >> that's -- >> they are going to throw the kitchen sink at joe biden. they are going to throw whatever they can to try to change the narrative, sew confusion, whether it's about mail-in ballots or law and order. they just want to talk about something else, because to this point, this race is a referendum on the president's handling of the pandemic. it has not been a choice election. it's been a referendum. and we see these polls are stubborn and consistent -- americans don't think he's doing a good job.

>> so, we're going to come back, but first, ground control to major tom. >> yeah. >> have we gotten the signal back? >> i don't know. >> i don't know if he's there or not. >> oh, he's there! >> my god! >> we'll talk to major tom, mike barnicle, when we return. and we'll also dig into some of the must-read op eds next. and later, we'll be joined by reuters' jeff mason, who was on the ground in kenosha for the president's visit yesterday. you're watching "morning joe." we'll be right back. you're watching "morning joe." we'll be right back. ♪ book two separate qualifying stays and earn a free night. the open road is open again. and wherever you're headed, choice hotels is there. book direct at choicehotels.com. now you can trade stocks and etfs for any amount you choose instead of buying by the share. all with no commissions. stocks by the slice from fidelity. get your slice today.

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♪ ♪ ground control to major tom ♪ ground control to major tom >> i think we all know how david bowie felt -- >> yeah, we do. >> -- writing that song. >> like mike barnicle. >> like trying to get mike barnicle in boston all morning. >> just doesn't work.

>> it's not working. >> in his latest op ed for the "wall street journal" titled "portland's half century of ruinous leadership," mark writes "as a third-generation oregonian and former portland resident, i've been bombarded with questions over the past few months about why one of america's whitest cities has descended into civic madness following the police killing of george floyd. violent radicalism had been flourishing in the city for years before the rest of the country paid attention, and mayor ted wheeler's feckless leadership is no anomaly. the situation in portland has been enabled by 50 years of political leadership that has been as corrupt and depraved as it has been progressive. i love portland like no other city, and it is hard to square what's happening with residents of the city i am blessed to know. their commitment to rectifying injustice is sincere. they abhor violence, and they

are patriotic americans. but if portlanders believe progressive governance requires rejecting basic notions of law and order, they are, to paraphrase h.l. mencken, getting what they vote for -- good and hard." >> so, mike, you know, it's interesting. i've been critical of the ongoing problems in portland. and of course, people on the left, far left, have attacked me -- how dare you side with donald trump? well, portland's been this way for years. like, you know, i remember seeing violence in seattle and portland during past environmental marches, at world trade organization marches, like 20 years ago. this is nothing new for portland. even in 2017, as mark points out, republicans just wanted to

have an event downtown, and they were -- the city was threatened with violence there. so, this portland problem is an ongoing problem, and we do see it in other cities, but that donald trump is trying to make this an election based on portland's problems or seattle's problems seem just disingenuous because the problems, as hemingway points out here, long predated the black lives matter marches. and donald trump. >> oh, there's no doubt about that. joe, there's no doubt about that. portland, seattle, kenosha, minneapolis. you can name the city. we can watch the scenes on tv. all of this is taking place at a time, for the first time in our history, when the president of the united states intentionally

provokes and promotes such violence. that's the difference. i mean, mark hemingway, a respected guy. he's, you know, not all wrong in his description about what the far left sometimes seeks. sometimes it's a little too far left for a lot of people to understand. but in this case, it's the president of the united states. and you can feel out there, joe -- i bet not just in portland, but throughout the country, the principal need that a lot of people feel now is we have to calm this country down. and unfortunately, one of the two candidates for president is intent on not calming the country down. and one of the things the biden campaign i think will probably engage itself in is pointing out to the american public that donald trump has been president for 1,321 days. when he was sworn in on january 20th, 2017, there was no virus, the unemployment rate was 4.1%,

your children were going to school, cities were not embroiled in racial tension as they are now. but here we are. 30 million people are unemployed, people live in angst, anxiety, and sometimes fear of contracting the virus because the government, the federal government, led by donald j. trump, has done very little to address it nationally and come up with solutions nationally at a point in time when it could have made a difference. and the big thing right now at this moment, on the second of september, is can you put your children in school? well, you can't. all of that is on donald j. trump. >> well, and -- >> on his watch. >> and jason johnson, also, donald trump points to portland as a way to undermine and discredit the 25 million americans -- black, white,

hispanic, asian americans -- the 25 million americans that went out and marched peacefully. and that's -- again, two things can be true at once. you can have 25 million people marching in the tradition of john lewis, and at the same time, you can have idiots on all sid sides. proud boys we saw yesterday showing up in kenosha. the 17-year-old kid, anarchists, marxists, whatever. you can have people on all sides using any march -- and i talked ou envonmental marches, wto marches 20 years ago. >> right. >> to try to stoke violence just as an excuse. and donald trump can't even say yesterday that there's systemic racism, can't even credit the 25 million people who marched peacefully over the past summer. >> yeah, joe, this is the reality, and this is, again, why we have to make sure we don't

allow the president to change the frame. for the vast majority of americans, in lorain, ohio, in charlotte, outside of austin, you know the black lives matter protests you've seen? it's next to target, 25 kids, you know, some parents, saying black lives matter. you wave to them as you drive to work. that's what it looks like for most people! it's not kenosha! it's not portland. so, we can't let the president pretend that particular hotspots are indicative of how most people are experiencing human rights marches. here's the other thing -- he is encouraging terrorism. let's be clear. the proud boys are terrorists. if you look at video from portland, you don't see black lives matter protesters walking around with guns, walking around with paintballs, walking around with military equipment. that is what is happening with the fascists who are there, with the proud boys who are there, and way too many police officers are working with them. so, that's what we have to point out, that the president is a terrorist sympathizer at this particular point while regular people are doing human rights marches and then trying to go back home and teaching their kids math because the wi-fi is

bad in the house. >> yeah, and mika, you know, one of the most offensive things from the rnc for me was when mike pence talked about the marches and the violence that spilled out of the marches and actually used a dhs officer in oakland who was shot dead, suggesting that a black lives matter protesters were responsible for his death, when, in fact, it was a member of a right-wing alt-right group, of course, organized on facebook, that actually drove there specifically to gun down an officer, using the peaceful marches that at least 25 million people, 20, 25 million people, using those marches as an excuse to kill somebody. >> and we need to talk about facebook at a separate time. but sticking with the "wall street journal," the paper's editorial board has a piece entitled "benjamin frank, person

of concern" in which it writes in part, "a republic, if you can keep it," benjamin franklin's 1787 quip about the government americans would have, is probably the most popular founding-era wisdom still with us. maybe not for long. as if to prove franklin's insight about the tendency of republics to self-destruct, a district of columbia panel has identified franklin, among other founders, as a person of concern and recommended his name to be removed from d.c. property. many backers of the summer's protest movement say they want to perfect the founding principles, not demolish them, and that they support the removal of confederate statues for that reason. that's the image democrats presented at their national convention. if it's true, then biden democrats should be the first to blast the district's efforts to dishonor the people who created the constitution they are sworn to protect."

>> and bob costa, this recommendation, obviously, won't be followed through on, but this is the sort of thing that donald trump will obviously cling to. it's also the sort of thing that a lot of americans -- i mean, i would be shocked if a single democratic leader, if a civil rights leader, said, no, we need to relocate the washington monument and the jefferson memorial, but it's out there and obviously will be used by donald trump. but democrats have said, have they not, let's focus on the confederate statues and not those of washington or jefferson? >> i spoke to speaker pelosi about this the other day, and she dismissed the idea of getting rid of all these founding fathers at this time. she said she's focused on the confederacy. but these kind of issues, joe, reflect the intense pressure on the biden campaign, as the

president and his allies stoke these culture wars and try to draw vice president biden into these debates, which the trump campaign privately tells me sees as losing ground and bad turf for vp biden. but what's notable this week is not just what the biden campaign is saying in its ads, it's what it's not saying in its ads. and you look at that new ad that takes a snippet from his recent speech in pittsburgh. he's not having a so-called sista soldier moment like bill clinton had in 1992, where bill clinton took on this minor figure, a black woman from the music community, a rap artist, and used her as a foil. instead, biden's using president trump as a foil. he's not trying to have a direct explicit sista soldier moment, and that tells you a lot about the biden campaign and it tells you a lot about this crossroads in 2020. >> yeah, and elise, we've seen some extreme moments this past

summer that some have jumped on, you know, like for instance, frederick douglass' statue being torn down. isn't it safe to say that, whether it's speaker pelosi or joe biden or other democratic leaders, they're not going to be coming out suggesting that these statues of george washington or monuments of george washington or thomas jefferson be torn down? >> no, the trump campaign wants to pick this battle, wants to bait democratic leaders into engaging in statue wars, in talking about inanimate objects, instead of talking about the real crisis that's plaguing the country, the coronavirus pandemic that's affecting so many african-americans and minorities disproportionately. they'd rather talk about symbols and not the substance of what's going on. and i do think that, also, this

is, you know, looking at those images that are on the screen right now of destruction in kenosha, i think it's naive to think that those images do not have electoral meeting with some voters who might be leaning towards voting for biden, but they're little scared. so, democrats need to continue reiterating the message that they aren't for lawlessness, that they're for order, and that the rioting is completely unacceptable. >> and again, that's why, mika, i think joe biden's ad is so impactful and so powerful, because joe biden is condemning the violence, he's condemning the looting, he's condemning the criminality that's been going on at the fringes of a lot of these protests and a lot of these marches, and he's condemning violence on both sides. >> yeah. >> donald trump is not. >> yeah.

it's pretty simple. >> donald trump will not condemn violence on his side. in fact, he's encouraging violence on his side. just look at his twitter feed. >> and what biden is talking about is absolutely restoring order and then doing better within that. now to this. speaking at the rnc, president trump wildly mischaracterized joe biden's position on abortion. >> joe biden claims he has empathy for the vulnerable. yet, the party he leads supports the extreme late-term abortion of defenseless babies right up until the moment of birth. democrat leaders talk about moral decency, but they have no problem with stopping a baby's beating heart in the ninth month of pregnancy. >> joining us now, senior editor at "the dispatch" and columnist for "time," david french. he's out with a new piece

entitled "do pro-lifers who reject trump have blood on their hands?" >> david, thanks so much for being with us. i suspect that this column came straight from your heart, because, obviously, you have serious concerns about donald trump. i just want to say off the top, i'm so sick and tired of people justifying everything under the sun based on the single issue of abortion, and they do, whether it's the caging of children, whether it's just the violence done to madisonian democracy. you name it, they all just go back and justify it based on a single issue, most of them doing it cynically. >> yeah, a lot of them are doing it cynically. and you know, as you said, we've got a cultural pyro maniac as president of the united states. we have a horribly mishandled coronavirus pandemic with almost 200,000 americans dead, and

people are saying, well, you have blood on your hands if you don't support donald trump. so, what i wanted to do was take a step back and let's just take a serious look at what we have learned in almost 50 years of pro-life activism. and what we've learned is pretty remarkable. since the peak of the abortion right of the u.s., around 1980-'81, it has declined through every single presidency. and that was something that i think is surprising for an awful lot of pro-lifers, that it declined during the pro-choice clinton presidency, it declined during the pro-choice obama presidency. there's been a big cultural change, and that is not just the rate, it's the ratio, it's the number of abortions per, you know, 100 pregnancies. that's all declined. and so, what i wanted to show was, look, the way you think about pro-life activism is often upside down. you have the most influence on the people around you and your community and your state. you have the least influence on national politics. and this whole emphasis on judges -- while judges are important and judges decided roe

v. wade -- out of the nine justices on the current supreme court right now, exactly one -- one of the nine -- a george h.w. bush appointee, clarence thomas, indicated he's ready to turn over roe, roe and casey. one of the nine have said that. the two most recent trump appointees applied the casey standard recently in a case. now, they weren't asked to overturn roe, but they applied the casey standard. they could have joined with thomas. they chose not to. so i wanted people to realize that their pro-life activism is often upside down, overemphasizing the national, underemphasizing the personal and local. >> you know, when i left congress, i had people ask me in interviews, well, what were some of your biggest takeaways? and i had big takeaways. they said, what about on legislation? what about on issues of the day? and i said, abortion was, without a doubt, the most

twisted, exaggerated issue. it barely touched us. you would cast thousands and thousands and thousands and thousands of votes. you would work around the clock on constituent services. you would do so many things. and then it would all be boiled down to a single issue that washington really doesn't have a huge impact on. it just -- i say that as somebody who was there, who was pro-life, who saw it day in and day out. it was a side show more than anything else, the issue, as far as how washington can change that. and you're right, that includes the courts! >> yeah. you know, if you look at it like this -- in the last 20 years, there have been basically two pieces of pro-life legislation that have gotten through congress. early 2000s, the born alive infant protection act and the partial birth abortion ban, both of which impacted very, very, very, very small percentage of

abortions. the rest has been an awful lot of status quo, and that's because of polarization in this country. there just has been status quo. where there's been real action has been at the state level, and that's one of the reasons why i just got so frustrated with conservatives -- conservatives -- i shouldn't say conservatives. right-wingers. >> trumpists. >> in 2016 -- or trumpists who said the conservative movement had done nothing. it was losing before donald trump. it had huge gains in the states during the obama era and it passed hundreds of pro-life laws at the state level. but at the federal level, you're then told abortion will stand or fall based on donald trump, and it won't. planned parenthood had most taxpayer funding of its history in 2019 under donald trump. that is not saying abortion stands or falls under trump. >> shawna has a question.

>> hey, i'm just curious, though, it still has power as a general election or a federal election issue, doesn't it? this is part of why, you know, vice president pence, then-governor pence, was put on the ticket in the first place. this is why he's probably still on the ticket, to be honest. how do we sort of square that? i understand what you're saying and this is really a state's issue and that kind of thing, but the power it has politically, can that really be denied? >> oh, it can't be denied it has huge political power. there are going to be millions of people that go to the polls and hold their nose and vote for donald trump for one reason and one reason only and that is abortion. what i'm saying is they have a misperception of the power of the united states over this issue. not that there isn't a perception. and not even that the federal election doesn't have importance. i'm not saying that at all.

but i'm saying people completely misperceive the importance. it is more important imperially what you do to combat -- if you're pro-life, what you do to combat abortion at the state and local level than at the national level. but there will be millions of people, i know people -- as an ivan gal cal christian, i know reason why they're voting for donald trump is they believe they'll have blood on their hands of unborn children if they don't. what i'm saying, as i did in this piece, is i tried to take a 40-plus look as where has progress been made, what is most effective, where can you actually make an impact. and time and time again it comes up that you don't make that much of an impact at all at the federal level and you make a big impact at the state and local level. >> elise jordan is with us and has a question. >> sure. >> david, i'm so glad that you tackled that topic thoughtfully because this is the number one

issue that i hear from so many conservative voters in the south. and as you have written and researched and talking to people in your evangelical community about this idea, what kind of reception has it gotten? >> very mixed. and i would say it's mixed by generation. you know, i think there's an older generation who's been sort of raised from the beginning of their political advocacy to believe that the holy grail of all of conservative activism is the reversal of roe v. wade. one thing i pointed out in my piece is i'm for roe v. wade. one out of nine justices is clearly on the record saying they want to do that. even if you did it, the way abortion is practiced in the united states, it would still keep -- 90% of abortions would still continue. that's why state activism and local act victim is so

important. the generation looks at one court decision and says that's the end all and be all and gets very angry. a lot of the younger generation growing up in the area where abortion is less prevalent in their communities, they've seen the abortion rate falling, they sometimes wonder. they look at this older paradigm and say, is this still right? this doesn't feel right. and they looked at my piece and they said, oh, yeah, this matches what i have seen and experienced. i would say there's a pretty stark generation aal divide in the response to this. anecdotally. anecdotally the response to this was really separated out by generation, which also happens to be true about trump in general. and a lot of older voters, i think, are looking for -- they want to find that reason to support the guy that has contradicted every value in his personal life and his personal values that they've held for much of their lives. this is the one issue. this is the one.

what i'm saying to them is, look, it's not accomplishing what you think it's accomplishing. at the same time he's hurting this country in ways that's so profound. it's almost an act of cruelty to inflict another four years of this on america. >> david, something pastors, evangelical pastors are concerned about as well, they'll say it quietly behind the scenes but they won't say it publicly, is that evangelicals being so closely associated to donald trump is damaging the church now and will cause profound damage to the church as we move forward. again, while older evangelicals' singular focus may be on abortion, younger evangelicals -- i saw this even my last years of congress, are concerned about feeding the poor. are concerned about what jesus talks about in matthew 25, are

concerned about having a leader that follows the tenets of what jesus said on the mountain, the be attitudes, and they see their church supporting a guy who they believe is the antithesis in the beatitudes. >> younger evangelicals are pro-life but they're not locked into that one issue as the end all and be all. they look at what are these right-wingers doing devaluing these americans lives in response to the coronavirus? they look at someone who's engaged in racially inflammatory rhetoric and that's being generous to trump, rather than calling it outright racist, and they look at that and say, i don't want my witness to america to be defined by inflicting a cruel and malicious person on

the united states of america. and they're deeply troubled by it. and i think they're right to be trubled by the message the church is sending america when they say, we're going to support somebody who lies, we're going to support somebody who's unfit, we're going to support someone who is malicious in a specific set of our issues. i think that sends a message the church doesn't want to send. a lot of agreement to me is whispered. a lot of people are reluctant to say it and a lot of that is shouted. >> and cages, of course, children as a matter of policy. and actually has a vote in the white house on making it the policy to cage children when their parents come to the border. >> david french, thank you so much. >> thank you, david. great having you. even though you have that horrid picture with the orange, just grotesque orange and white in

the background. >> all right now. >> that's my alternate light as the wannabe sportscaster. i have auburn stadium up on that side just for you. >> i see that. >> you know, you're one of the few people that i know, and alex is screaming at me, both of my parents went to university of kentucky. so, yes, my dad would drag us around and watch university of kentucky basketball games our entire childhood. but you're one of the few people that remember that in like 1977 the wildcats went 10-1 in football. that was huge news in our household for george f. scarborough. he was thrilled. >> and a ten-win season two seasons ago. it's wildcat football on a renaissance. up next, we -- thank you. we're going to circle back to the president's visit to kenosha where instead of promoting racial healing, trump brushed that issue aside to focus on the

violent protests. whereas joe biden seems to be able to do both at the same time. >> at the same time. plus, two progressive power houses join forces to turn out women voters. we'll explain that. "morning joe" is coming right back. joe" is coming right back ns like liz and mike. when their growing family meant growing expenses, our agents helped make saving on insurance easy usaa. what you're made of, we're made for. usaa look at that embarrassing you. that wall is your everest. but not any more. today let's paint. and right now, get incredible savings on behr premium paints and stains. exclusively at the home depot.

we've also seen police officers assaulted with bricks, bats, rocks, molotov cocktails, frozen

bottles of water. somebody said what are these protesters i saw? they said, it's only water. how can water hurt you? they don't say it's frozen in a bottle the size of a football and they throw it at the police. it's unbelievable. it's water. then they have cans of soup. soup. and they throw the cans of soup. that's better than a brick because you can't throw a brick. it's too heavy. but a can of soup, you can really put some power into that, can't you? when they get caught, they say, this is soup for my family. they're so innocent. this is soup for my family. it's incredible. and you have people coming over with bags of soup, big bags of soup, and they lay it on the ground and the anarchists throw it at our cops, our police. if it hits you, that's worse than a brick because it's got force. it's the perfect size. it's made perfect. when they get caught, they say, no, this is just soup for my

family. and then the media says, this is just soup. these people are very, very innocent. they're innocent people. these are just protesters. isn't it wonderful to allow protesting? >> whoa. cans of soup, thugs on airplanes wearing black uniforms. people you've never heard of who were in the dark shadows. it's all from our president. he's just got these ideas. how things go down. >> don't get him started on shower heads. >> toilets, the other thing he mention. good morning. >> got to flush 14, 15 times. >> good morning to "morning joe." it's wednesday. >> but shower heads. >> he's obsessed with that. >> soups of can, cans of soup. >> we have white house reporter for the associated press,on that lemire. former aide to the george bush white house, elise jordan and nbc news and msnbc contributor,

shawna thomas is with us and co-founder and ceo of axios, jim vandehei. look at the numbers. >> do you ever wonder why lemire always had a couple of campbell's soup cans handy. >> oh, there you go. >> thought it was a warhol thing? no, violence, just sheer violence. frightening. >> the president is really taking one angle here and digging deep. president trump's visit to kenosha, wisconsin, yesterday, gave another opportunity to promote healing and unity. >> oh, that's good. >> and unrest that -- >> we need to come together. >> yeah, you would think he meant with the family. >> i'm sure he did. >> and with local pastors and leaders and tried to unify the time of such pain. the president instead chose to promote his campaign message of law and order.

>> wait. joe biden is also condemning violence every day, it seems. >> every day. >> all right. we're all against violence. >> the president did not -- >> all for law and order. >> -- meet with jacob blake's family but did speak alongside the kenosha police chief and sheriff. you the snow in your write-up for the associated press, quote, trump stood at the epicenter of the latest eruption of social injustice and came down squarely on the side of law enforcement. he dodged questions about systemic racism and took credit for quelling the violence that followed blake's shooting. >> that's actually a lie. >> the governor of wisconsin used his own authority to call in the national guard. in addition to federal reinforcement. the president made clear even before he arrived in wisconsin, the purpose of his visit. >> i'm speaking really today i'm

there for law enforcement and for the national guard because they've done a great job in kenosha. they put out the flame immediately. as soon as they came in, boom, the flame was goen. maybe it will start up again. in which case they'll put it out very powerfully. >> can you speak at all, you've spoken about the anarchy you're referring to. what about racial division, would you like to bridge some of those gaps and -- >> yeah, i would, i would. >> you're saying is helping the matter? >> i think it's helping because i'm about law and order. >> do you believe systemic racism is a problem in this country? >> you just keep getting back to the opposite subject. we should talk about the kind of violence we've seen in portland and here and other places. it's tremendous violence. you always get to the other side. well, what do you think about this or that? the fact is we've seen tremendous violence. and we will put it out very, very quickly if given the

chance. that's what this is all about and you have people that choke. they're under -- i said it yesterday and last night. they're under tremendous pressure and there may be are there for 15 years and have a spotless record of a all of a sudden they make a decision. they have a quarter of a second to make a decision. they're either dead or in big trouble. and people have to understand that. they choke sometimes. >> so, just like a three-foot putt. the thing is, donald trump's debating himself here. you actually have joe biden who's criticizing violence day in and day out. >> no mention of jacob blake. >> joe biden is able to do two things at once. he's able to condemn the violence and also talk about the need for reform. you can do two things at once.

but donald trump, sadly, as the national review said, is not bilingual in terms that he can't talk about two things at once. >> yeah, he won't. >> also, you know, joe biden also talked about cops yesterday. he said mainly good cops and he understands every time they put on a badge and they go out, they're putting their lives at risk. so you have donald trump, of course, doing what joe biden is doing and talking about the difficult job that law enforcement has except donald trump won't talk about the other side of things. refuses even to discuss systemic racism. and the only thing he said about the 29-year-old that got shot is that he feels quite terribly for anyone who has to go through that. it's very interesting that also, jonathan lemire, as you pointed out in the ap article, donald

trump keeps lying. i know this is not a shock. what's a shock is some people are stupid enough to believe him. he keeps lying about the national guard. when i called out the national guard in wisconsin. it's not how it works. donald trump didn't call out the national guard. he and his supporters, including former governors in that state, can lie all they want accidents but it doesn't change the fact that the current governor of wisconsin is the one who called out the national guard. something the democratic governor of oregon should have done a very long time ago. let's just talk about that part of the lie, that part of donald trump's misinformation campaign, about the fact that he's the one who called out the national guard and things immediately calmed down. >> well, joe, first of all, the best we can tell in the few hours the president spent on the ground yesterday, he did not face anyone with a can of french

onion or minestone. there seems to be very little to do any healing across the divide. to your point, that's correct. the president for a few days was calling for the national guard to be used. that's been his reflexive go-to, back to the george floyd protests kicked off in late may. it was the democratic wisconsin governors. he s he summoned the national guard. the president was quickly to take credit for that. suggesting that's what led to things to calm down in kenosha the last couple of days. we can fact-check him very ears easily there. he did not do that. the governor did. we've always seen this president have real trouble trying to reach across any sort of chasm to the other side. he offered very little understanding, frankly, all

summer long, about racial injustice, what fueled all of these protests. we mentioned jacob blake's name not once. he was pressed repeatedly in questioning why he didn't talk to the family. he said he talked to a pastor who was a associated with the family and they wanted a lawyer to be a part of the meeting. yesterday he suggested the mother was a very nice woman by all accounts but did not pick up the phone to speak to her. and he also gave no greedance at all to the underlying issues. he addressed the idea of police violence on black men not once. he sided solely with law enforcement, playing into what was at its start a political visit. this is the argument he has been making. this is the argument they want to make. joe biden is under control of radical left. it's those forces tearing american cities apart. and president trump strong with law and order is keeping things safe. that was at the heart of yesterday's visit, joe.

still ahead, new poll numbers on the presidential election. we'll show you the state of the race with just two months left until the november vote. you're watching "morning joe." we'll be right back. ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ the open road is open again. and wherever you're headed, choice hotels is there. book direct at choicehotels.com. ♪ you can't claim that because it's inanimate! [ sigh ] people ask ... what sort of a person should become a celebrity accountant? and, i tell them, "nobody should." hey, buddy. what's the damage? [ on the phone ] i bought it! the waterfall? nope! my new volkswagen.

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the few new national polls out this morning, the usc tracking poll finds joe biden with a ten-point lead on president trump, 52% to 42%. the latest "usa today"/suffolk university poll finds biden leading trump by seven points nationally. 50% to 43%. that lead has narrowed from the 12-point edge the former vice president held in june. and then there's this new polling out this morning from grinnell college conducted by t"the des moines register" whic finds biden holds an eight-point lead over president trump, 49%

to 41%. let's take a deeper look at the grinnell poll which finds president trump's attacking the suburbs does not appear to be working. looking at several key demographics, biden holds a 20-point lead among women while president trump holds favor in men by six points. biden is also up with suburban women by 33 points among suburban americans by 23 points. and among urban americans by 26 points. biden also holds substantial leads among all americans under the age of 55. trump is leading among those age 55 and above. when looking at president trump's handling of key issues facing our nation today, just 39% approve of his handling of the coronavirus. 55% disapprove. 39% also approve of his handling of race relations.

49% approve. and 52% approve of his handling of the economy. >> jim vandehei, you're a wisconsin native, give us any insight of what's going on up there. and look at ann seltzer's latest poll. donald trump thinks he can talk to suburbia and the great american dream and trying to key loep income people out of neighborhoods because crime would go up and the women, oh, the women. the women's safety when low income people come in. it's all very racially tinged. and he thinks this 1953 appeal to white suburban voters is going to work. it just predictably seems to be backfiring because it's why white suburban voters started running away from him after

charlottesville. >> yeah, so really interesting thought experiment i did on sunday. i went into like -- basically i do -- i've got a tribal world where we live in different bubbles. i went into the trump bubble. i listened to ben shapiro, listened to rush limbaugh, looked at the top trending stories on facebook, all from right-wing news. it's not just donald trump talking about this. this is all the infrastructure of sort of the modern republican party is talking about this. you would think every city is on fire, that every city is being looted, that donald trump is the one man who stands up for law enforcement and their belief is, i do think you're right, their belief is that eventually that will get people, even if they won't tell a pollster, get them to vote for donald trump because they would be scared stiff by election day. i have no idea if it would work. there's no doubt this is not just donald trump anymore. it's the entire infrastructure.

it's an infrastructure most people in the media don't pay attention to. they don't realize the amplification effect. by the way, it works both ways. a lot of these conspiracy theories he was talking about in that fox news interview, their pulled from some of the top trending items that move on facebook. so, there was a great piece everybody should read in "the new york times" last week about understanding -- put your head inside the facebook machine. most of the stories that travel and get the widest audience tend to come from ben shapiro, graham, breitbart, sites most americans aren't paying attention to but people on facebook are. that is the trump base. the question is, over the next couple of weeks, do we start to see those polls move, private polls or public polls. so far we don't. i think you're right. so far we're not seeing success in that strategy. but if you're donald trump and you have the play, i can deal with the coronavirus where we have 180,000 deaths, we're not

making that much progress on being able to cure it and there's a lot of economic devastation slowing from it. i could talk about that. or i could go to kenosha and say i'm the law enforcement guy. from a political standpoint, you're going to choose the law enforcement guy approach. that's what he is all in on. we'll see if it works. >> we'll see. shawna, there is that bubble jim vandehei is talking about and it's also a bubble that mitt romney and people who supported him in 2012 stayed comfortably inside of, believing gallop polls that had them up 11 points, believing every report on fox news. i remember even election night, i'm sure you do, too, in 2012, you still had people on fox news insisting that mitt romney was going to win and that things were looking better in ohio and the romneys were in shock that night, as were many people because they were inside that bubble. well, that bubble has only

become smaller and intensifies even more, and actually gotten far more outlandish, especially if you look at the crazed conspiracy theories that the president is now spitting out that he finds on facebook from qanon members. >> what's interesting about jim talking about living in that bubble for a day, we also know the president does live in that media bubble, because that media diet whether it's fox news, ben shapiro, whatever we want to talk about, also compliments him how he talks about law and order. if he sees this on tv and he sees people he likes saying good things about him saying this is the information we want, we want to talk about, quote/unquote, law and order, whether that is actually a racist coded term or not. we want you to do that.

if he does it, then his ego is fed by the fact that he's doing it. so it just keeps repeating. taking a closer look at those numbers that mika was talking about from the poll, i saw 39%, 39% of people who approve of how president trump has worked on coronavirus and race relations. so that's his base, that 39%, that's his base. he knows it's working with them and he's not going to stop. the things he said in kenosha yesterday when asked about systemic racism, when asked, is there a way we can bring people together, that kind of thing, that -- the people who want him to talk about that, the people marching in the streets, he also knows most of those people are not voting for him. the people peacefully marching wanting to talk about police reform, systemic racism, that

want to hit them deep on the head that are deep ingrained in america, he knows they're not voting for him. he knows that media diet, the loop, that 39% will vote for him so he'll keep talking about it. jonathan is right. this was a political trip. he's doing from a political point of view what he thinks he needs to do to do the one thing he seems to care about, which is winning re-election. coming up, when he isn't ginning up racial tension, the president is doubling down on covid conspiracies. a fact-check on his claims from last night next on "morning joe." rning joe.

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so, fox news aired more of president trump's interview with host laura ingraham in which the president referenced a false conspiracy theory about the cdc and coronavirus deaths. take a look. >> by the way, i saw a statistic come out the other day talking about only 6% of the people actually died from covid, that they died from -- >> they had comorbidity, which you've gotten criticized for because there's comorbidity -- i think it was 70 something% had

two or three kor mcomorbidity be covid might have been the last to hit them -- >> it's a key statistic. >> it's fascinating, laura in real time was a fact-checker throughout the entire interview. >> yeah. trying to tell him to stop saying certain things. >> she's correcting in real time what he said. >> over the weekend, president trump retweeted a post that falsely claimed that the cdc had updated its numbers to, quote, admit that only 6% of people listed as coronavirus deaths actually died from covid. good lord. twitter removed it. it's so bad that twitter -- twitter won't remove conspiracy theory that the president says about you, but it will remove this. that's how bad it was. it removed a tweet on sunday saying it violated the site's rules. the original tweet was posted by a supporter of the baseless

qanon conspiracy theory. but the cdc actually said in a report published last month, was that for 6% of the deaths, covid-19 was the only dawes mentioned. according to the agency, the only 94% of coronavirus deaths were people who are underlying conditions. >> well, and -- >> that makes a lot of sense. >> this is shawna, what we were talking about earlier when we said that donald trump was pushing conspiracy theory -- saying this was a conspiracy theory back in march that the media was drumming up. now he's basically saying the same thing now. pushing conspiracy theories by his definition. if family members of mine who have diabetes, that have asthma, who are otherwise perfectly healthy and live very healthy, productive lives, if they were

to die because they got covid, then that shouldn't count towards a death from covid, which is absolute insanity. that's why we are protecting our family members. that's why americans, whether republicans or democrats, unless they're just absolutely out of their minds, are protecting their parents and their grandparents, who are more prone to catching this and dying from it. >> that's why i'm doing this show from my apartment, and that's why i haven't seen my family for six months in texas because i want to protect my mother and father who do have comorbidities because they're in -- i'm not going to say how old they are, because the last time i did that my mother got really mad at me. >> it's okay, mom. >> but it goes back -- yeah. but it goes back to what we have been saying for months. if the president would take a

step back and let health experts and dr. fauci and the cdc and not put politics into the cdc and let them do their job so that the information that's getting out there is more clear to people so people aren't as confused about what is going on and they should do, he would probably be doing better in this election. i realize the polls are tightening and i think the polls are always going to tighten as we got closer to the election and people were going to start paying attention. but this is -- this actually isn't hard. i mean, beating covid-19 is hard. what scientists are doing is hard. what doctors and nurses right now are hard. what he has to do politically with respect to this, with respect to the campaign, is just project some kind of amount of stability and let the doctors talk and let people get some kind of clear idea of what they should be doing as we go forward. and when he does this fox news interview -- and i want to point out that laura was really trying

to help him in that interview a lot. trying to get him out of some of the issues he walked into because we are talking about these sound bites now, but he just has to say, hey, i want the doctors, i want the scientists to do the best job they can. and not have everyone second guess this. but if, you know, what kellyanne conway said is to be believed, this also goes into the idea of confusion, of people being scared. and he appears to think, and this campaign appears to think that all kinds of levels of fear and feeding into it will eventually help him. still ahead, our next guest was on the ground in wisconsin covering the president's trip to kenosha. reuters reporter jeff mason joins us for a look at how it all unfolded. "morning joe" is back in a moment. a moment

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they're on a plane. >> where is --

>> i'll tell you some time but it's under investigation right now. but they came from a certain city and this person was coming to the republican national convention. >> this was a firsthand account of a plane going from washington to wherever and i'll see if i can get that information for you. >> the folks at the recounted showing how in his two tellings of a conspiracy theory about some kind of antifa plane, thesnags city had changed in a matter of hours. the baseless story matches a rumor that went around facebook three months ago. >> facebook spreading lies again. >> we need to do a little bit of coverage in the coming weeks, joe, on the facebook, especially given that ted talk we watched. that was incredible. let's bring in white house correspondent for reuters, jeff mason, who was on the president's trip to kenosha, wisconsin, yesterday. also with us, pulitzer prize

winning reporter covering racial injustice for "the new york times," nikole hannah-jones. >> thank you for be with us. jeff mason, the president trotting out conspiracy theories, ninjas wearing black filling up airplanes or whatever he says, i'll get those names for you. >> later. >> trotting out conspiracy theories that lauwye laura ingr was correcting him. doesn't it seem like we're seeing an acceleration of conspiracy theories of late? >> people ask me things like that, is this getting worse or is his mental state changing? i'm always reluctant to say yes because we just have seen this up and down over the 3 1/2 years of his presidency. but we did ask him about that yesterday. i asked him that follow-up you just played on the tarmac of

andrews. his answer was, as your viewers just saw, that it had to do with one, in particular, person, and maybe he would get that person in touch with me and the rest of the pool. we certainly haven't heard back about that. also yesterday when i asked the white house about this, they weren't able to pinpoint a specific flight. they weren't able to give any details about what the threat was. if, in fact, it had been a serious threat, it would have been a major thing for the country that the white house would have needed to comment on. >> yeah. they didn't do that because chances are very good it never happened. jeff, let's talk about -- i want to make sure i've got this right. it seemed to me yesterday and over the past week, the president has steadfastly refused to criticize the actions of a 17-year-old boy who went over state lines with an ar-15 that he was illegally carrying around, killed two people, and the president has not criticized

him and many of his supporters in the media have actually praised kyle rittenhouse. did you hear the president do anything to condemn mr mr. rittenhouse or other supporters of his and their violence, be it in kenosha or in portland? >> no. quite the opposite. he spent the last few days defending ritte nhouse, saying e was violently attacked, but he's not offering the same level of support for jacob blake. during his trip to kenosha yesterday, did not meet with jacob blake's family. he did meet with the pastor of jacob blake's mother. it was striking, joe, yesterday at that roundtable that he held with law enforcement and with business leaders from the community, that the two people at that table who were african-american were pastors at

the church that jacob blake's mother attends, but they were not invited to talk about some of the racial issues that the press corps was asking and the president, when asked about very directly whether he believed in systemic racism being a problem in the country, turned it back to law enforcement and did not really let the pastors speak, who he had actually directed that particular question to. i thought it was also striking that the female pastor said -- mrs. ward said, she was there yesterday because she thought it was important that black people be at the table. and they were the only two. >> yeah. nikole, also striking, if we do want to make a list of all of the things that were striking yesterday, we need to add to that list that while joe biden, who's condemning violence on both sides, donald trump, who's

claiming to be the law and order president, steadfastly refusing to condemn violence that comes from his own supporters. >> yes, that message here is very clear. and also very disheartening for people who are marching in the streets, who are trying to simply argue against police brutality and who are demanding some consequence when they face police brutality. so, to see a defense of a young man who broke the law, who carried an assault rifle across state lines, who was also out after curfew, and no actual true empathy for jacob blake, who was shot in the back seven times by an armed agent of the state. and as you mentioned earlier on the show, in fact, trump actually compared this armed agent who is highly trained, who shot jacob blake in the back with someone choking in a golf tournament. i can't tell you how deeply

painful is that is to protesters of all races, who are out there marching for accountability. and the inability for this president to give any empathy to the fact that there is a systemic problem. i mean, there's research. his own fbi put out research saying that white supremacists have infiltrated law enforcement. we know there's a very long history of racialized policing. that is why people are in the streets right now. and as biden did, one can say that you should not be destroying property and also say that you should not -- you should not have to have the type of violence that black communities are facing that's leading people to be in the streets right now. you can condemn both of these things. it's a choice not to do so. >> yeah, you can -- two things can be true at the same time. but, again, talking about things that were striking yesterday, the president refused to admit that there is a systemic problem

when it comes to race, while joe biden is able to say there is. but he understands that the majority of police officers, when they put on that badge are risking their lives and doing the best that they can. but, nikole, how -- is there -- obviously, the picture -- the images of a black man getting shot seven times in the back, those actions, obviously suggest there's a serious problem. but also how about the act of omission by those police officers, who had people screaming, he shot -- he just shot people. he just shot people. and a white boy with an ar-15 around his neck with his hands in the air approaches police officers and they just drive past him and they just let him go, even though everybody's screaming at the cops, he just shot two people.

>> i think that's probably one of the most glaring examples. because oftentimes we see these videos coming from different places where a white person who is resisting arrest or being disrespectful to law enforcement is treated very differently than a black person. but this was in the same city, the same police department, and a police department that was guarding and patrolling because of protests against brutality complaints against its own officer. to see the police when they pass rittenhouse were actually responding to gunshots so they know someone has been shot and they go right past this young white man who was carrying an assault rifle. >> unbelievable. >> you can't even imagine in your head this happening if that young man were a black man. and this is happening after months and months of sustained protest against police police brutality. all this could happen with all the scrutiny on police departments, with this being in the daily lexicon i think really

speaks to the issue. the last thing i want to say is, you know, trump -- they spent a lot of time at the republican national convention talking about joe biden and the crime bill and painting joe biden as someone who actually has implemented a program of systemic racism. now they're trying to deny systemic racism exists and paint biden as some anti-law and order radical. it just doesn't jibe together. >> no. >> so, jeff mason, obviously a group here and a lot of the people we talked to study leadership on a daily basis, but what was the reaction in kenosha to trump's words, to the way he spoke with cops in the area with that roundtable? was there any -- among the business owners, i know there was a bit of a back story as to how they got some business owners to come forward and sort of stand with the president. >> yeah, in terms of the reaction that we see, you know, when you're traveling with the president, you're in a little

bit of a bubble so you see the people who they bring. and the people who came yesterday and the business that the president first visited are clearly in pain and have reason to be. they suffered a lot. but to go back to what we were talking about earlier in terms of what was striking is, you know, there are two pieces of that story and there are two sides of that community that are suffering. and the president's trip was designed really only to to focus on the one, and that was the business community that was -- that has been hurt by these protests and not to offer words of encouragement or empathy to those who are concerned and hurt by racial divisions. >> jeff mason and nikole hannah-jones, thank you both for being on this morning. >> again, striking. we just have to say. he couldn't even offer words of support for the man shot seven times in the back, paralyzed. >> and the children who

witnessed that shooting. >> could not visit the family. >> could not visualize in his mind what that might be like. can't do it. it doesn't exist in his mind. but i do believe the words are would not. it's not that he couldn't. it's not that he's stupid. it's not that he doesn't have the room in his brain. he refused. he could have but he didn't. up next, a new effort to supercharge women voters ahead of the election. keep it right here on "morning joe." joe. on your interests or what's trending. get real-time insights in your customized view of the market. it's smarter trading technology for smarter trading decisions. fidelity.

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joining us now, co-founder of black lives matter alicia garza and planned parenthood cecile richards, leaders of the group supermajority founded to harness the power of all women of all races, ages. a 38-day national campaign to mobilize women for the election. and alicia, this is like -- usually know your value. i try to teach women to have more confidence. in this case with biden showing a huge lead among women in the polls, i think it's safe to say that you don't want to be too confident until election day. this is one area where you just don't want to be too confident. >> that's very true. and i think we know, right, that women in this upcoming cycle are on fire. a year ago, mika, we were on

this show announcing the introduction of supermajority, a new home for women's activism. and over the last year, we've spent our time building a community of nearly 1 million women who are fired up and ready to go. so, you know, absolutely we don't want to take anything for granted, but we're definitely not. and with supercharge, we are mobilizing millions of women in our friends and families to get to the polls, talk to each other and turn the direction of this country around. >> cecile richards, talk about what's at stake in this election for women especially and how are you getting that message to women to try to get more women voting? >> well, i think one of the most important things, mika, as alicia said, women are dominating the elections, they'll be the majority of voters in november and are absolutely fueling what is the biggest gender gap i've ever seen in a presidential election.

i think polls out today show that 2-1 suburban women supporting joe biden and kamala harris, and they're being driven to vote and driven to support them because they are desperately concerned about their health and safety. we have a president who had no plan for covid. nearly 1,000 people still dying every single day. schools not reopening. reports out today that nearly half of daycare centers in this country are poised to shut down because of the economic disaster that this has been. so, women are very, very motivated. we need to make sure that they are informed about how they can vote in their states, how they can vote safely and to ensure that all of their votes are counted. >> so, alicia, i'll let you pick it up from there. how are you getting that information to women across the country? it is different this time. how, where, when you vote. little bit different this time. >> it is, but that's why we're getting a head start. and on september 26th, we are

launching supercharged, which is an opportunity for women and our families and our friends to come together to reflect on what we've dealt with this year and to make plans together on how we are going to supercharge the voting efforts going up until november. we're going to be talking to millions of women across the nation in one of the largest woman-to-woman voter contact efforts that this country has ever seen. and we're going to be using the same tools that we've been using, you know, for decades to get us motivated and powerful. we'll be texting each other. we're going to be texting our friends. we're going to be writing letters. we're going to be making phone calls and, ultimately, we're going to make sure that no woman gets left behind when it comes to being powerful in this upcoming election cycle. >> and cecile, can you put into words the choice? four more years of trump as it

pertains to women versus biden? >> i just think that this administration has failed women on every count in terms of their health and safety, in terms of their economic future. we know that the total disruption that covid has caused women with no end in sight. we need a leader. and something, of course, you all just talk about in the last segment. the issue of racial injustice and the importance of having a leader who can actually bring us together is felt by women all across this country. so, i think there's an opportunity to support a ticket that's actually going to bring america together again, actually, build better and that's what is really fueling women. of course, as you know, mika, many women have been waiting for this election since the day after the last one and they're not going to be denied their ability to vote. >> all right. alicia garza and cecile

richards, thank you both very much. supercharge, women all in, starting september 26th. we appreciate you both being on. we also have a number of developments this morning concerning the coronavirus to update you on. students and teachers are back to school in wuhan, china, for the first time in seven months, since becoming the original epicenter for the coronavirus. more than 2,800 educational institutions in that city opened their doors yesterday, welcoming 1.4 million students back with the recommendations to wear face masks and avoid public transportation. schools were ordered to stock up on disease-control equipment and carry out drills and training to prepare for a new outbreak. the city also has an emergency plan to go back to online teaching in case of a virus resurgence. meanwhile the united states largest school district, new york city public schools,

announced it is delaying the start of in-person and remote classes to september 21st. classes were slated to start ten days earlier, but educators pushed back, saying they need more time to properly reopen, to welcome the city's 1.1 million students. mayor bill diblasio and the new york teachers union were locked in last-minute negotiations but diblasio ultimately agreed to a key union demand to mandate monthly random testing to 10 to 20% of students and staff in all school facilities starting next month. those who do not agree to testing will not be allowed into school buildings. earlier this summer, the chicago and los angeles school districts announced they will not hold in-person classes until the coronavirus is more contained in their cities. joe biden is expected to deliver remarks today on how safely to reopen schools after he and dr. jill biden received a

briefing from education experts in wilmington, delaware. yesterday, dr. jill biden, a long-time educator, toured an elementary school there as part of her ten-city back-to-school tour a day after joe biden made a campaign stop in pittsburgh. and that does it for us this morning. geoff bennett picks up the coverage right now. >> mika, thanks. i'm geoff bennett, in for my friend, stephanie ruhle. president trump is heading to another battleground state today to wilmington, north carolina, to celebrate the 75th anniversary to the end of world war ii, it's his second visit to the state in the last two weeks, a clear sign that north carolina is one state that the trump campaign is focusing on just 62 days ahead of the election. and it comes on the heels of a controversial trip to kenosha, wisconsin, yesterday. the president visiting the city nine days after the police

shooting of jacob blake that sparked massive protests there. but the president did not meet with blake's family. instead, spending his day touring damaged businesses and speaking with law enforcement officials. the biden campaign calling the visit, quote, self-centered divisiveness accompanied by zero solutions. tod today, joe biden plans to offer solutions on another problem. the former vice president is set to speak in wilmington, delaware, on his plans to safely reopen schools amid the pandemic. our team of reporters has the latest on both campaigns. peter alexander is at the white house and mike memoli is in wilmington, delaware. what's the plan for president trump's visit to north carolina today? >> reporter: geoff, in fact, this is the battle of the wilmingtons, right? biden in wilmington, delaware, the president going to wilmington, north carolina, going to designate that as