we begin this hour with the block pufter reporting from jeffrey goldberg in "the atlantic" magazine citing multiple instances of president trump demeaning the military's soldiers including john mccain and the first president bush shot down. in 2018 program was supposed to visit an american cemetery to honor 1800 marines killed during the first world war.

in a conversation with senior staff members on the morning of the schedule visit, trump said why should i go to that cemetery? it's filled with losers. in a separate conversation on the same trip, trump referring to more than 18 o 00 marines who lost their lives as suckers forgetting killed. president trump's current and former advisers sprang into action thursday night pushing back hard against the story with the president delivering his own forceful rebuttal just moments after returning from his trip to pennsylvania. >> to think i would make statements negative to our military and fallen heroes when nobody has done what i've done with the budgets, the military budgets, getting pay raises for our military, it is a disgraceful situation by a magazine that's a terrible magazine. i don't read it. but i just heard about it. they made it up, probably it's a couple of people that have been failures in the administration that i got rid of and i couldn't

get rid of them fast enough. or it was just made up. >> joining me now, nbc news white house correspondent kelly o'donnell, retired four star military army general barry mccaffrey and former defense secretary william cohen, also a former senator -- republican senator from maine. welcome all. kelly, first of all, what have we heard from the president about this so far today? >> well, the president has just had an event in the oval office with foreign visitors from serbia and kosovo. that tape will be available shortly and likely will play out in your hour. we know so far based on the initial pool reports that the president pushed back on this article calling it false. i don't know yet the extent of his comments on this, but the president has been, along with a lot of his top officials, current and former, aggressively push back, denying that heifer said these disparaging things

about veterans and service members, both living and fallen. this is, of course, critical, andrea. this is one of the communities where the president wants to retain what has historically been a strength for him. in many of his public acts, he does things in favor of the military and he touts that aggressively in almost every public appearance or rally-style event. he tries to align himself with the valor of those service members. so these sorts of comments as reported and if true are damaging to the president. part of what makes it ring somewhat true, although the president is denying it, is because some of the language does, in fact, track what he has said publicly in front of cameras and without any hesitation in the past, things like talking about those who were p.o.w.s, the president not liking people who were captured. that kind of a comment which already stands in public and has been scrutinized for four or five years now, and now these particular comments which seem

so personal and so damaging and denigrating to service members, that's what the president has to push back on. in part what we have seen from the white house are tweets from senior of fibficials and the president speaking on the tarmac last night. that was unusual because he had done about 90 minutes or two hours of a rally style event in pennsylvania. he also did local news interviews in that area and yet felt he had to say something more. that gives you an indication of how powerfully they're trying to push back. andrea. >> indeed, because it is so potentially damaging. he denies having called john mccain a loser. we'll play a little bit of that in a minute, him actually calling john mccain a loser. he's denied something he said publicly and tweeted himself. general mccaffrey, your reaction after reading the piece? >> i find it entirely

plauszable. president trump has been a disaster in national security. this thing is so widely reported, i find it -- a marine officer killed in action in afghanistan and essentially asking what's in it for them, or disparaging the marines killed in bella wood in world war i. 118,000 of our soldiers went over and fought to save democracy in france and the uk. just simply astonishing. he is a man of many fears, i think. fear of service, fear of disfigureme disfigurement, fear of death. he can't understand the millions of veterans who have stepped forward to to fight and defend this country, without monetary reward or medals, but simply to protect our constitution and way of life. mr. trump is a disaster.

>> bill cohen, you served as secretary of defense, also a senate colleague of john mccain's. i want to read what jeff goldberg wrote as it relates to john mccain, that trump remained fixated on mccain, one of the few prominent republicans to continue criticizing him after he won the nomination. when mccain died in august 2018 trump told his senior staff according to three sources with direct knowledge of this, we're not going to support that loser's funeral and he became furious, according to witnesses when he saw flags lowered to half staff. what the blank are we doing that for? the guy was a blanking loser, the president told aides. bill, i want to remind viewers what donald trump said about john mccain said back in 2015 when he was already a candidate. let's watch this. >> i supported him for president. i raised a million dollars for him. he lost. he let us down. he lost. so i never liked him as much

after that because i don't like losers. but -- >> he's a war hero. >> he's not a war hero. >> he's a war hero. >> he's a war hero because he was captured. i like people that weren't captured. i hate to tell you. >> bill cohen, your reaction to all of this. >> andrea, it's been said that silence is the most perfect expression of scorn. i'm tempted to remain silent on this, just to express my contempt for what has been said. i'm not going to base it on what appeared in "the atlantic" magazine. i stated on your program and others before he was elected that i felt he was unfit to be commander-in-chief of this country, unfit because of his character and because of his background. everything he has done, almost everything he has done has proven that he is unfit to serve. the comments that he made about john mccain are really interesting because i knew john

well. i traveled the world with john. i was best man at his wedding. john was a hero, not because he was shot down, but because he endured 5 1/2 years of torture. and when the north vietnamese said we'll let you out early, let's make a deal, john mccain said no deal. i don't go out until everybody goes out. that's what makes him a hero to millions of people, not only in this country, but around the world where he is revered. the notion he would still maintain he's not a hero, he's a loser, it really troubled me a great deal. now, the allegations about those who are handicapped, tammy duckworth. she lost something, she lost half her body. max cleeland lost half his body. bob dole lost half his body. dan inouye. these are people willing to

sacrifice their blood and bodies in order to defend the flag and what it represents. it's not to pay tribute to president trump. it's to pay tribute to the flag and to the constitution. so for the president to say, well, i gave them money. it's as if it's his money. the congress of the united states -- >> i think we're having trouble with bill's -- >> part of his demonstration -- >> bill, we're going to try to re-establish your camera. >> sorry about that. >> we'll try to re-establish that. but let me quickly go to general mccaffrey on the military times poll. we're starting to get a better idea of the troop's view of the presidency. in this military times poll he says where joe biden is leading the president by about four

points, 41.3% to 37.4%. we saw a new reaction to "the atlantic" article from the progressive political organization vote vets with a couple of people talking about this. let's watch that. >> my stepson was not a loser. >> my son is not a loser. >> my stop matthew is not a loser. >> my stepson was not a sucker. >> my message to donald trump is this. you have no right being a commander-in-chief. >> so there's a lot to unpack here. we'll get back to it in a moment. but the president in the oval office. let's watch. >> i think right now is really incredible. the numbers are way down, as you know. florida is doing very well. arizona, a miracle how it went down. it went up and went down. two really great governors. texas, great governor, same

thing. california the numbers are way down. so we're really starting to see those areas that popped up are really going down. the mortality rate, you look at the percentages and what's happening, and that's because of the convalescent plasma. it's because of the remdesivir. it's for a lot of different reasons. we do have therapeutics that are really having an impact and you're looking at what's going on. i've seen numbers from 50 to 85% better. so that's really something. we're very proud of the job we're doing, not only the great companies, but every one of them have said to me, if this was a more typical kind of presidency -- i'll be nice. if this were a more typical kind of president, getting these approvals would take two or three years and they'll have them -- as far as we're concerned, they're very close to

announcing some very big news. so we're honored by that. i've had a team, whether it's vice president mike pence, head of the task force, and all the people on the task force. they've really done a great job. i don't think they've been recognized for the great job they've done. last night i read out in pennsylvania, latrobe, the home of the great arnold palmer, i read out statistics on how we're doing compared to other parts of the world. and we're doing phenomenally well. if you took new york, because new york -- they made a lot of mistakes in new york. but if you took that out, tremendous number of deaths in new york, if you took that out, our numbers are just about as good as anybody in the world. and even without that, without taking it out, you see the kind of numbers we have. so we've done a good job, done a great job in helping governors.

i think every governor is very happy, not everybody expresses it to the media, but they do at the task force meetings. we've had task force meetings where they're laying praise on us and go out and talk to the press and won't be quite as generous, but that's okay. for the most part -- in every case we've helped every governor and helped them a lot. some of them we've made look very good. some have done a greatly great job and others have. as a country we have done a terrific job. i want to thank vice president pence. i won't thank too much right now because we like to get the job finished first. the vaccines are going to come out soon, and the therapeutics are continuing. that's why we're having the kind of numbers we have. i'll be doing a news conference today at 5:00. so i'll see you there. >> sir, do you need to apologize to service members and veterans? >> no. it's a fake story written by a magazine that was probably not

going to be around much longer, but it was a totally fake story, and that was confirmed by many people who were actually there. it was a terrible thing that somebody could say the kind of things, especially to me. i've done more for the military than almost anybody else. you look at how the va is doing. it's doing incredibly well. we've got all sorts of things done from accountability to veterans choice to everything. it's got right now the highest approval rating than it's ever had. 91% approval rating it's never been anywhere close to that. nobody has done what i've done. and that includes salary increases. but it really includes the rebuilding of our military because, as you know, when i came here our military was totally depleted. we spent almost $2.5 trillion, much more than you spent on your military, i can tell you that, right? slightly more. $2.5 trillion, all made in the

usa, f-35s, brand new jets and rockets and missiles. i hope to god we never have to use it, but our nuclear is now in extraordinary shape including new weapons. i hope we never have to use that. that's a level of power you don't want to talk about, you don't want to hear about it. it's a fake story and a disgrace they're allowed to do it. i hate to bring up his book, but john bolton, no friend of mine. i didn't think he knew too much about what he was doing, didn't do a good job. he wrote a book. he talks about this incident and he doesn't mention it. frankly, a lot of reporters, even some pretty bad ones, they read that and that was the end of the story. there's nobody that considers the military and especially people that have given their lives in the military -- to me

they're heroes. to me they're heroes. it's even hard to believe how they could do that. i say that. the level of bravery. to me they are absolute heroes. thank you everybody. >> -- about people that were captured. >> thank you. >> with those words, to me they are heroes, the president called it a fake story, called it a disgrace. that is taped playback because peter alexander is already on the north lawn. he was asking the president as to whether the president owed an apology to the men and women of the military. peter, you were in the room. >> reporter: i was struck by one thing. you heard from the president saying these service members and veterans for their service and sacrifice, that they are heroes. obviously the reason "the atlantic" story resonates even as the president dismisses it is because we've heard publicly

from the president, as he spoke about john mccain in 2015 who said mccain was only a war hero because he was captured and he likes those who were not captured. it does raise questions about the president's view of service and sacrifice, and while now he's had an opportunity to push back on this reporting, what has been striking is the specificity of the details here, including what he said when he was beside john kelly's son, robert kelly's graveside in 2017 where he said, i don't get it. what was in it for them? there are a lot of followup questions for this president that we'll try to ask later today at 5:00. the pushback from the white house was swift last night as it was described to me by those individuals who work here now but didn't work here then, even though they dispute it. they weren't there to personally have experience with it. some were. they say they were offended by these words. clearly it's the service members and veterans whose family have been most offended by what the president said back then as a candidate in 2015, and by the

reporting we've heard, not just from the individuals w, but als from those who served, jim mattis, john kelly and others, who previously served under this president. >> peter, with us also are barry mccaffrey and still bill cohen, former defense secretary. general mccaffrey, one thing we do know is jeffrey goldberg has covered the military and national security and diplomacy for decades and is very well sourced in that field. so that is why, as you pointed out, his story resonates to be very accurate and has been confirmed by the associated press and by "the washington post." >> it's very plausible to me, exactly what he said. we saw him stand up in front of several thousand people and disparage and make fun of a gold star family.

we've seen him call for the torture of u.s. detainees. we've seen him pull apart our alliances, nato. by the way, if he's re-elected, i'm sure we'll be out of the nato to the detriment of u.s. national security. i think in this case, what's so egregious, and you do see a change in the poll numbers certainly inside the armed forces, of him not understanding the nature of service. we have 2.1 million men and women in uniform, all of them volunteered, not for a paycheck, but to protect america. i think mr. trump -- one of the more amusing things he said, first time he met general dunford, chairman of the jcs, when he walked out of the room, mr. trump said he's really smart. why is he in the military? poor mr. trump, not exactly a

rocket scientist to make that statement. so this guy, his character, his patriotism is lacking. >> bill cohen, as former defense secretary, you know as well as anyone the importance of "stars and stripes" an independent newspaper. since the 1860s, canceled, today that was announced by the pentagon. >> what i would do in terms of assessing whether or not the president was telling the truth in denying what he has allegedly said is go to the people who know him best, his sister, a federal judge who recently retired, his niece who has written a book. go to the people who served in his cabinet and ask him directly what kind of sentiments he

addressed during his private moments. i think they'll come and validate everything that has been said about his attitude towards those who sacrifice themselves in a mission not to make money, but to preserve this great democracy of ours. it's sad we're talking about this. i would far prefer to talk about joe biden, who knows what it means to lose a son. who knows what it means to have a son join the military not under a draft, but to volunteer to go over and help defend this country. i would talk about joe biden in terms of being a president whose duty it is to heal this country. what president trump is doing is dividing this country along racial lines, ethnic lines, religious lines. now he's trying to do it along the military lines to say, hey, this is my military, these are my generals. they will do what i say. when he was asking general mattis, when he went for his interview, whether or not he agreed that we should engage in

torture, should we water board, and mattis said no, we do not torture, we do not water board people. i do support nato, i do support the importance of the eu. all of those issues are ones in which the president has expressed disdain for. he may try to diminish those who have served, he couldn't get rid of them fast enough, but i would be willing to put jim mattis on the line in terms of truth and testimony, in terms of validating the real heroes of this country, where president trump seems to only talk about money. one of his sons saying they're giving up a lot because of him being president, they're losing money. it all comes to money and to me. i think we've seen enough of president trump in terms of his character. that's beyond dispute at that point. there are those who support him, notwithstanding. to those who are watching and those mothers and fathers and

sisters and brothers who have their family in the military, don't ever think that we -- the american people don't value them. when they are injured u that we celebrate them still. we put them in our parades, yes. we want them to be seen because they've left their bodies on the battlefield for us. i think let's talk about joe biden now to say what kind of america he sees, what he and kamala harris will bring to the presidency, about unifying this country, trying to say that we are the united states of america, not the red america, blue america, but we are united in purpose and that we are not simply trying to be a white nation or a black nation or a brown nation. but the essence of this country is we invite everyone to come who is qualified to enter our country and we don't designate some countries as being worthless or part of an intestinal waste land, that we

embrace people of all ethnicities, races, religions, et cetera. i'd like to see us talk more about a biden administration, what joe biden would do in terms of bringing this country together, adopting reform measures that will make us safer and more secure and stop denigrating. as general mccaffrey just said, stop denigrating our allies. some undercutting nato. stop carrying out the putin wishes. the first thing you do is undermine nato, criticize the eu, undermine your own intelligence community. and then call the media fake which, in fact is what he did at the time when the virus started to spread. he said it was fake news. now we're at 180,000 plus dead. i guess we know it's not fake news. andrea, i don't know if you can still hear me or see me. >> i sure can.

we all can see and hear you. loud and clear. in fact, mr. secretary, we're going to hear from joe biden we expect later this hour, he will be speaking on the economy and perhaps on this as well. many thanks to you. thanks for all the experience you bring to us and to our viewers and listeners and of course to our four-star general, retired general barry mccaffrey. thanks so much. peter, thanks for rushing out there with all the news that you brought to us from the oval office. president trump also moments ago saying he expects good news on a coronavirus vaccine being ready by fall, even before the election, even though that is being disputed by the head of the president's warp speed vaccine initiative who says it's, quote, extremely unlikely, not impossible. the world health organization estimating a vaccine will not be tested and ready for use before the middle of next year.

a different timeline from a number of people. the president projecting a very fast timeline. joining us dr. zeek emanuel, former obama white house health policy adviser and author of "which country has the beworld' best health care." first, is the white house overpromising? >> yes. the president should have no idea where we are and how fast we'll be done because it's a double blind study. nobody should know how many cases of covid have happened which is the end point that we would be using. either someone is doing something unethical, peeking at the data or he's overclaiming without any evidence. >> what is the risk of overclaiming, rolling out too quickly or projecting it with

the election calendar in mind. that's a great suspicion among people. >> what's quite clear -- >> people will not have confidence in public health and will not want to take the vaccine. >> if we rush out a vaccine and it wasn't effective in protecting people, then you would immunize people. they would change their behavior and probably much more likely to spread the virus. so claiming something is effective before you actually have adequate data would be a disaster and spread the coronavirus much more. saying that you are approving it without adequate safety data and some unfortunate side effects happen, that's going to sow more suspicion in taking the vaccine which is going to be complicated because it requires two shots separated by three or four weeks. that would make it harder to get herd immunity and get the economy restarted.

making sure we do this correctly is critical to getting the country immunized and vaccinated and getting up and started. >> the distribution of this vaccine is going to be very complicated. the leading contenders do require two shots. the cdc laid out instructions to all the nations governors that they should have this ready by november 1st which was a rather suspicious date, two days before the election. some people suggested. is this just good planning because it is so complicated, they need deep freezers, dry ice and all kinds of facilitys. it's very complicated as you pointed out. is that suspect? >> let's make clear to the viewers, there are 37 vaccines in human trials, nine of which are in the phase three, that's the real test, and only two of

those nine are american and one of them does require negative 70 storage which does add complication. now, it's unclear what the motivation of the cdc is. we've seen that agency roiled and the agency has lost a lot of credibility in some of the comments, like don't test people who come into contact with someone who has come into covid with if they don't have symptoms. we do need to plan. we need to plan begin months ago for distributing a vaccine because we'll have to get 250 million, 300 million americans vaccinated. as we said, vaccinated twice which is a huge logistical challenge. the november 1st deadline is extremely suspicious as you point out. it does make you worry about the pollicization. yes eve already seen the pollicization in

chloroquine. as well as independent committee of the nih saying no evidence that it really works and yet the president had tweelt stormed the fda into giving emergency use authorization. i'd like to correct, the president said, look, the number of infections are going down. he mentioned some states where they are going down like arizona, texas, california. but those are all states that did things that he didn't approve of, like mandating people wear masks, decreasing indoor meetings, things he has opposed. he failed to mention the fact that in north and south dakota, iowa, missouri, kansas, we're seeing increases in the number of cases because those are states that have not put in the public health measures like face masks, like keeping distance and

like not having large gatherings. so we are continuing to have outbreaks in this country and that is extremely worrisome and the president seems to deny it. >> zeek, you've covered a lot of ground. thank you so much. great that you were with us today. meanwhile, on the economy, the unemployment rate did drop sharply. great news in today's jobs report. we'll have reaction from both the white house and in a few moments joe biden is about to take the podium in wilmington, delaware. stay with us. you're watching "andrea mitchell reports" on msnbc. i am robert strickler. i've been involved in communications in the media for 45 years. i've been taking prevagen on a regular basis

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we're awaiting remarks from joe biden on the economy after positive jobs reports and new comments on the explosive piece from jeffrey goldberg in "the atlantic," president trump reportedly disparaging members of the military who are killed, captured or shot down, including john mccain and the first president bush. joining me is nbc senior business correspondent stephanie rules, "new york times" reporter peter baker.

steph, thanks for joining us. we have seen these numbers and it seems to be people furloughed or coming back to work, not necessarily new jobs, but a good report overall, right? >> it's definitely good news. it's not great news. we still have over half of the people who lost their jobs during the pandemic, they're not back to work. they're not booming and we or certainly not in a v-shaped recovery. what it is is fragile and fragmented. however, it's that fragmentation creating these two very different narratives. for those who are the have-nots, they're suffering, not back to work. they don't have child care. they don't have health care. it's unclear what their kids' school situation is going to be. we're seeing more and more businesses take temporary lay-offs and make them permanent. a lot of big businesses are considering furloughing workers in the months ahead. for the haves, people invested in the stock market, not the economy, things are going well. for people who do have jobs working from home, a lot of them

have saved money. they don't have commuting costs, not picking up coffee or lunch every day. it's a real divide. when the president continues to see to people, well, you're going to lose all this if i'm not in office, he's obviously not correct. that narrative is looking because look how he's doing in the polls, despite all the pain in the economy, the president still does well on the economy with voters. >> he does better than joe biden on the economy. even though the economy's pain is caused by the mishandling of the coronavirus. chris lu, you were the deputy secretary of the department that rolls out these numbers under obama. the republican convention, larry kudlow bragging on the v-shaped recovery which we're not seeing. >> it's important to understand, as stephanie just said, we have 11 million fewer jobs now than

before the pandemic. that's more jobs lost than during the height, the total amount lost during the great recession. we were in a very big hole. we're starting to cal ourselves back out. that recovery is clearly slowing down. you also need to take these numbers with a grain of salt. there was an increase of about 240,000 temporary jobs for the census that's part of this. there's a couple of really important warning signals in here. a lot of these temporary lay-offs are becoming permanent. there are 3.5 million permanent lay-offs in here. many of those jobs are never coming back at all. we have millions of people that have left the labor force and have stopped looking for jobs, and that sort of is contributing to this decline in the unemployment rate. also importantly for political purposes, manufacturing which is going to play out in the midwestern states, there are 700,000 fewer manufacturing jobs now than a year ago. in fact, there are 200,000 fewer manufacturing jobs now than when president trump took office.

he's going to have a hard time making the case that he is bringing jobs back to the united states. i think overall what this speaks to is we've had a recovery because we've had stimulus put in through congress and the white house, but without that stimulus continuing, it's unclear as to how well this recovery continues. >> in fact, peter baker, this might bolster those like mark meadows who are fighting against more stimulus in the negotiations and sort of beat down anything that mnuchin from treasury might do. this might further gridlock those negotiations for another package. >> yeah, that's a great question. one of the reasons why things have been as good as they are, not as bad as they could have been, is because of the previous rounds of stimulus. you would think the incentive would be there to find a deal to get some more dollars out the door in order to help the president in these last 60 days before the election. that doesn't seem to be where things are going.

mark meadows told us on air force one last night he had some constructive conversations with the hill, but mainly with rank and file democrats, not with speaker pelosi. it didn't sound like there was any kind of breakthrough imminent. so i think they're heading into the fall without the ballast of a new stimulus package. we'll see if that, in fact, shows up in the next round of numbers. >> and peter, you were in the pool last night. you must have been there on the tarmac. i cannot remember the president getting off without lights and there probably was still some rain going on out there at andrews. he was just loaded to dump all over the jeff goldberg piece. >> we had just come back from a campaign rally in latrobe, pennsylvania. we got off the plane. all he had to do was walk to the car. it was right in front of him. we thought we were heading back to the white house. instead he marched over to the cameras set up there just in

case and he started to unload. he seemed angry and upset. it's a recognition of how dangerous this story is for him. he's denied it obviously as you showed earlier. >> exactly. >> it does resonate with a lot of people who have seen him act disrespectful in different ways to various constituencies. the military is one of his most important backers in this election and he's not doing well with them according to the latest military times poll. if there were perceived as wisdom, it could hurt them. there's already an online ad out with parents from slain soldiers from iraq and afghanistan saying my son is not a loser, not a sucker. that's a powerful blow to the sit toe that the president needs right now. he's trying to refute this and not let this become accepted by at least the military community. >> and in latrobe, you were there. from my account from the pool report it was an hour 30-some

minutes, a very long campaign speech. there was very little social distancing, very few masks, and that seems to be the paradigm for the way he's going to continue in this general election campaign, from now to the election. >> this is the new style campaign rally for president trump since tulsa turned out to be such a debacle. rather than indoor arena with 20,000 people, he's doing airport hangar rallies, 1,000, 2,000 people, smaller crowd. because it's semi outdoors, in theory less of a problem than an indoor arena. you're right. there was no social distancing. the vast number of people didn't have a mask on. he didn't have a mask on. he ridiculed vice president biden for wearing masks. did you ever see someone who needed to wear a mask so much and questioned biden's psychological security. this is what we're going to see a lot more between now and the election.

he likes these rallies because it does allow him to riff, for at least a full hour and a half, it was not a written speech or at least he didn't stick to one closely. he likes to have the energy of a crowd. that's what he needs to put forward. >> peter baker, stephanie ruhle and of course chris lu, thank you all. turning to new developments in rochester, new york, where the mayor announced the suspension of the seven officers involved in restraining daniel prude, the 41-year-old black man who police placed in a spit hood who later died of complications of asphyxia and the setting of physical restraint. the autopsy was provided by the prude family attorney. it also says the effects of pcp were a contributing factor. the release of body cam footage sparking protests in the city demanding the officers be arrested. the case is currently being reviewed internally by the president as well as by the new

york state attorney general. that body cam was as a result of the family going to get a freedom of information act. it had, of course, the incident happened all the way back in march. the first mail-in ballots are being sent out today in battleground north carolina just hours after the president again encouraged americans during that latrobe, pennsylvania, speech last night to break the law by voting twice in november. we'll have more on that in a moment. stay with us for this quick break. you're watching msnbc. re watchi.

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you're looking at live pictures from wilmington, delaware, the podium where joe biden is about to speak. we'll bring it to you live as soon as he starts. joining us now, jeffrey goldberg, editor and chief of "the atlantic." the author of the article making all the headlines today, concerning the president's comments about john mccain and other fallen service members. you heard what the president said, calling it fake, disputing it vigorously. can you tell us your reaction to the president's reaction? >> it is not fake. it is real. this story is extensively sourced and entirely accurate.

that's all i can say. this is not the first time, of course -- certainly mott the first time today that the president has cast aspersions on journalism that doesn't reflect well on him. his reaction is completely predictable. you're right, it's very vigorous, and i think that these vigorous denials are motivated by a realization -- i think you were talking about this earlier in your show, a realization that these kinds of comments that he's made really don't reflect well on him among a certain kind of voter he actually needs very much in a couple of months. so i think that's a little bit of the energy there, is from that realization. >> that's clearly the case for anyone who has watched him over the years. obviously he did not serve in vietnam, got multiple draft deferments, medical dermt based

deferment due to a bone spur in his foot which never hampered his golf game. there's backing up with mary trump writing her uncle robert who recently don junior was goi to be disinherited after threatening to join the military, so he seems to have a lifelong aversion to the military. >> yeah, it's interesting given how performatively patriotic he is. but i think it's -- i think it's deeper than an aversion to the military. i think the issue here is a lack of understanding about the meaning of service or doing -- doing something for others or doing something without the promise of material gain or material benefit. i think one of the underreported or undercovered parts of the story i wrote is something that donald trump said about general joe dunford, the former chairman

of the joint chiefs of staff. after dunford had given a very, very professional briefing in the white house and left the room, trump asked several aides or said to several aides, that guy is smart. how come he joined the military? there's an attitude there that suggests, and we see this over and over again, that suggests that he doesn't have respect for people who join the armed services because they're not well paid. and we know that he is obviously very transactional and we know that obviously he's very material oriented, materially oriented and this is kind of a piece with that. >> jeff, there's another anecdote or description in your report in the atlantic about him not wanting wounded veterans or amputees to be present in parades, saying that spectators

would not like that. i'm really paraphrasing and not correctly quoting you. why don't you fill in the blanks there. >> yeah. i subsequently learned more about this particular incident. there was a -- he had, i believe, witnessed a french military parade and they put on a very -- they're one of the few democracies -- >> that was the big bastille day parade that he wanted to emulate by having tanks and the rest. >> that motivated his interest in staging a big parade with tanks and washington and you remember people in washington are like please don't run 72 ton tanks over our streets because they'll rip them up. you remember that whole incident. but what i subsequently learned is that trump had seen disabled veterans, french veterans, and was bothered by that and thought that the sight of disabled or wounded veterans or people with -- people who are amputees

would disturb the otherwise light and festive mood of a parade, and so he said in a meeting that he did not want, if we were going to have a big parade in washington, he did not want disabled veterans to parade. the quote is people wouldn't want to see that. which of course i think is -- >> in all of your reporting -- i'm sorry, i interrupted you. our satellite delay problem. >> no, i was just saying that i think a profound misreading of the american people and the way american people feel about wounded warriors. >> i want to give you a chance to respond also to john bolton who has said now that he was in the meeting in france, in the morning meeting discussing going to the american cemetery and had not heard any of the disparaging comments that you have reported. >> right.

i have very, very good sources. there were more than one meeting and many discussions during that period. i am completely confident that donald trump said those exact words. >> the other point that was made last night by the white house in a flurry of denials is to give a heavily redacted version of an email indicating that the helicopter movement to the cemetery was not deemed safe because of the weather. but that doesn't get to the point of why he didn't go by motorcade, which is what general kelly and others did. >> he had a number of ways to get there, including driving. my understanding is that there were many impediments to going 50 miles to that cemetery, 50 or so miles to that cemetery, but ultimately it was donald trump who ruled himself that he didn't want to go for the reasons that were stated. and obviously when the president of the united states wants to go

somewhere, there's an entire mechanism apparatus of government designed to get him there and obviously he could have gone on a highway 50 miles to a cemetery outside of paris if he had wanted to. >> well, as you've pointed out, they were very vigorous, exceptionally vigorous in the defense and immediate in the defense and in the repudiation of your reporting to the point where the president without any lights approached the camera and spoke in the rain on the tarmac. almost immediately, peter baker was a witness to all of that, so clearly they are concerned about the political damage of this with a key part of his base, which is the military in the past but the military times reporting is showing that is slipping even before your piece came out. >> i've been speaking to a lot of people in the last week, especially in that universe, and

they are concerned about the way he talks about the military as a constituency. >> jeff, i'm going to have to interrupt you because joe biden has just come out. but again, thank you so much for making the effort to be with us today. here's the democratic nominee. >> before i begin, i want to speak a little bit to what they talked about and the revelations about president trump's disregard for our military and our veterans. quite frankly if what is written in "the atlantic" is true, it's disgusting. it affirms what most of us believe to be true. donald trump is not fit to be president and be the commander in chief. the president reportedly said, and i emphasize reportedly said, that those that sign up to serve instead of doing something more

lucrative are suckers. let me be real clear, when my son was an assistant u.s. attorney and he volunteered to go to kosovo while the war was going on as a civilian, he wasn't a sucker. when my son volunteered and joined the united states military as the attorney general and went to iraq for a year, won the bronze star and other commendations, he wasn't a sucker. the servicemen and women he served with, particularly those who did not come home, were not losers. if these statements are true, the president should humbly apologize to every gold star mother and father and every blue star family that he's denigrated and insulted. who the heck does he think he

is? is it true? well, we've heard from his own mouth is characterizations of an american hero, john mccain, as a loser in 2015. donald trump said he was not a war hero, i like people who weren't captured. well, good for him. and his dismissal of the traumatic brain injury suffered by troops serving in iraq as mere headaches not too long ago. he stood by, failing, failing to take action or even raise the issue with vladimir putin while the kremlin puts bounties on the heads of american troops in afghanistan. it's a sacred duty and you're tired of hearing me say this, those who have been covering for me years know, i get in trouble for saying it but i'm going to say it again. we have many obligations to the

government. we only have one truly sacred obligation. equip and support those whom we send in harm's way, care for their families when they are gone and care for them when they are home. that's the only truly sacred obligation the government has. duty, honor, country. these are values that drive our service members. it's an all voluntary outfit. president trump has demonstrated he has no sense of service, no loyalty to any cause other than himself. if i have the honor of being the next commander in chief, i will ensure that our american heroes know i'll have their backs, honor their sacrifice, and those

who have been injured will be in military parades. i'm always cautioned not to lose my temper. this may be as close as i've come in this campaign. just a marker of how deeply president trump and i disagree about the role of the president of the united states of america. you know, the august jobs report came out this morning. i'm grateful for everyone who found work again and found a glimmer of hope that brings them back from the edge. but there