velshi. we're 59 days from election day and that was joe biden react together latest scandal donald trump is embroiled in over comments he reportedly made about u.s. soldiers and those men and women who have given their lives for their country. the president is, of course, denying it all, which is come to be expected. but the allegations are so truly deplorable that as republican congressman kinzinger says this is either the most heinous hit job on a president or the most heinous comments made by a president. here's the story. reported on thursday afternoon during a trip to france in 2018, trump canceled a planned vis toyota a u.s. world war i cemetery because it was raining and didn't want to get his hair wet. he privately called the american marines who died in the war, quote, losers and suckers. trump also pondered out loud, quote, who were the good guys in this war adding that he couldn't understand why the u.s. backed the allies. trump's trip to france inspired him to want his own military

parade, but not for all the military. per the report, he specifically requested that wounded veterans, including amputees be excluded from the parade saying, quote, nobody wants to see that. there's more. on memorial day 2017, homeland security secretary john kelly accompanied him on a visit to arlington national cemetery where john's son is buried. while standing next to robert's grave, trump turned on kelly and said of members of the military who go to war, quote, i don't get it. what was in it for them? trump has now responded exactly the way you'd think. >> i know john kelly. he was with me. didn't do a good job. had no temperament and ultimately he was petered out, he was exhausted. he was totally exhausted. he wasn't able to function in the last number of months. he was not able to function. he was sort of a tough guy. by the time he got eaten up in this world, it's a different world than he was used to, he was unable to function. he got even the alive. he was unable to handle the

pressure of this job. >> wow. all right. while horrendous, those comments right there and his reported comments about those that serve really are par for the course for trump who has publicly insulted john mccain, publicly attacked gold star families. but what trump reportedly sid in the atlantic article was so outlandish and so narcissistic, so cartoonish, that plenty of people actually doubt the reporting. but then it was confirmed by "the associated press" investigative reporter who is a marine corps veteran himself with deep sources in the military. and then it was confirmed by the "washington post" which added an an neck department of transportation where trump also called those who served in the vietnam war, quote, losers because they hadn't gotten out of it. now, you'll recall trump received multiple deferments from that war noting that his quote personal vietnam was avoiding sexually transmitted diseases. "the washington post" reporting also added an account of trump telling senior advisers that he didn't understand why the u.s.

government placed such value on finding soldiers who were missing in action because they had performed poorly and gotten caught and deserved what they got. if you have any lingering doubt about the truthfulness of the story, here is fox news confirming it. >> i've spoken with two senior u.s. officials who were on the trip to france who confirmed to me key details in the atlantic article and the quotes attributed to the president. my source, a former trump administration official, told me when the president spoke about the vietnam war he said it was a stupid war. anyone who went was a sucker. the president would say about american veterans, what's in if for them? they don't make any money. the source said it was a character flaw of the president. he could not understand why someone would die for their country. not worth it. regarding the french trip to mark the end of world war i, accord to this former official, the president was not in a good mood. french president macron said

something that made him mad. he questioned why he had to go to two cemeteries. why do i have do two? regarding the july 4th military parade planning, during a planning session at the white house after seeing the bass steel day parade in 2017. president trump said regarding the inclusion of wounded guys, quote, that's not a good look. americans don't like that. >> now just to be clear, that's fox news. we don't typically use fox news to justify why a story is true or not, but it's just instructive for you to understand what trump's response to that was. he responded late last night by tweeting that fox news correspondent, the one that you heard from, should be fired and the network is, quote, gone. whatever that means. all right. yesterday my next guest tweeted the following. quote, service, duty, honor, and love of country are what bind together every person who has put on the uniform. these patriots have given so much to america. donald trump will never understand the realities and sacrifices of military service. we all know who the real loser and sucker is.

joining me now, democratic representative anthony brown of maryland. he's vice chair of the house armed services committee and we talk often, but you may not know this, anthony brown is a retired colonel with the u.s. army reserve having served more than 25 years in the military. the congressman earned a bronze star medal in iraq. congressman, good to see you. thank you for being here. i don't know where to start except to ask you as someone who has served and someone who is on the armed services committee and has dealt with service members for much of your career, what was your response to what you heard the president had said? >> i think, ali, it's been said by others before and i agree, this is no surprise. i'm not shocked by what the president said. but i am appalled. it demonstrates that he lacks the empathy and even a basic understanding of the men and women who serve in uniform, of

the military itself and its history and traditions, of military operations, and his words are consistent with his continue of dissing of the military. his disrespect for john mccain, his diminishing the intellect and the ability of general officers, his disrespect and disparaging, as you pointed out a minute ago of a gold star family, the kahn family, it's a regular course of action for this president to really diminish the service and the value of the men and women who choose the military as their way to serve our country. >> as someone who has served, and i haven't, so i have to ask you, what's the thing, what's the chip the president's missing on this? is it just a lack of empathy or

is it -- the questions he's purported to have asked, what's in if for them? why do they do this? why rescue people missing in action because they got lost? these people are losers for getting caught, for losing wars. i don't think the nation -- i think you and i have talked about this. the nation doesn't have a great understanding of what motivates military people to serve. so what's the message that you'd like donald trump to hear now so that this nonsense stops? >> i'd say president trump, sit down with the men and women in uniform. sit down with the privates and the specialists and the sergeants and you will soon understand that the reason why they raise their right hand in service to our country is because they love our country. it's selfless service. they understand the sacrifices that they are making, that their families are making, but they do to because they love our country. and they do it because they love their brothers and sisters in uniform. it's a difficult job whether you're in combat or not, military service is rigorous on

the soldier and the soldier's family. but they do it for love of country and a commitment to one another. that's why we do it. that's why we're willing to make the sacrifice. and we need to understand and see that there's a commander and chief who values our service, who will care for us if we're wounded in that service and honor and respect us no less. and certainly honor and celebrate those of us who may be killed and not return home to our country that we love and the family who loves us. he's got to be able to demonstrate that but he has to understand that. sit down with a group of soldiers, sailors, and marines, understand what motivates them because it's not self-interest, it's selfless service. >> does this hurt donald trump? because this isn't a secret, as you know, as you said, to anyone. and yet donald trump claims he's the most pro military president we've seen in a long time.

he claims to luove the military. he loves goose stepping and ceremony and the trappings of the military and he likes to talk about generals all the time. but there are lots of military families. there are lots of gold star families. there are a lot of veteran families. there are a lot of amputees and wounded military families. they can't possibly countenance this. >> you know, ali, just this week the military times released a survey about a thousand men and women in uniform. keep in mind that men and women in uniform are traditionally from a conservative background, twice as likely to identify as republican than democrat, yet today in that survey it was found that a majority of members in the military have an unfavorable view of the commander and chief, of donald trump. keep in mind that four years ago within the military donald trump beat hillary clinton by 20

points. if the election were held today, military members support vice president biden 4 percentage points more than donald trump. and that's because they see a commander and chief who is unfit. they see a president who is unfit to be commander and chief. and that's why it's reflected in the way they feel. why is that important? look, men and women in uniform are going to do their job. they're is going to carry out every legal order. but if they don't have confidence in the commander and chief, that impacts morale. it impacts military readiness. so we need a commander and chief. and i think that in november the american people have a real choice. do we want a commander and chief who is steady and principled like joe biden who has an empathy and understanding for the men and women who serve, why they serve, the sacrifices they make, a willingness to celebrate and honor them and their families, or do we want a commander and chief like donald trump who be littles them, who won't even stand up to russian

president vladimir putin and call him out for putting bounties on the heads of u.s. service members serving in afghanistan? there's a real choice in november, and i think that the military members who vote, we know how they're going to express their choice or make their choice. and i think voters generally need to make a choice. and i think if we're looking for someone who's going to be a principal commander and chief, the choice is vice president biden. >> i think that line you draw between these comments from the president and the russian bounties that are actually causing and have caused american service members to be lose their lives is the clear one. captain was on an hour ago with me talking about the danger of this kind of messaging from the president. good to see you. thanks again and thanks for your service to the country. >> thank you, ali. >> a retired colonel in the united states arm army reserve. on average, 1,000 americans

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for spending a perfectly reasonable amount of time on the couch with tacos from grubhub? grubhub's gonna reward you for that with a $5 off perk. (doorbell rings) - [crowd] grubhub! (fireworks exploding) back in the spring, donald trump said fewer than 100,000 americans would die from coronavirus. currently the number is above 189,000. and that figure continues to rise at an alarming rate.

now the latest projections from the university of washington's institute for health metrics and evaluation which is one of the most prominent teams that's involved in modeling the pandemic, by the way it's the one the white house used to use until the projections became embarrassing large, well that shows that america is on track to have more than 400,000 deaths by january 1st. yesterday during a revealing news conference, biden addressed trump's covid-19 response and what it means for the future of the country. >> the president's chaotic mismanagement of the pandemic is still holding us back. the president has botched the covid response. botched it badly. the economic pain remains unrelenting for millions of working people of every race and background aren't getting the relief they need. meanwhile, wealthy are doing just fine and the painful truth is, we just have a president who just doesn't see it. he doesn't feel it.

he doesn't understand. he just doesn't care. >> last night president trump mocked you for wearing a mask and said that this is a sign that you must have some, quote, big issues. >> i'm a smart fella. i listen to scientists. this is not a game. life and death. life and death. i mean, i don't -- i don't get it. i mean, i just -- anyway, it's hard to respond to something so idiotic. >> the day before biden made those remarks, trump gave one of his longest campaign speeches to date to supporters in pennsylvania. as is now custom to gain entry into a trump campaign event, supporters had to sign what amounts to a death waiver saying trump and team have no responsibility if someone watches covid at the rally and with no mask mandate and social

distancing, seems like someone will. as for the overflow, you can see people were packed like sardines during a pandemic. in her tweet about it, this press secretary saying they were attending a peaceful protest. that's a stupid thing to say because trump's rally broke pennsylvania state law and far exceeded both indoor and outdoor attendance limits. by calling it a protest and those attending peaceful protesters, she is comparing it to the ongoing racial inequality and police reform protests around the country mocking those who attend those and the cause. during an interview last month, trump acknowledged that 1,000 americans a day are dying from covid-19 but explained, quote, it is what it is. what we are seeing play out in realtime is it is what it is. the cat are straastrophic attit it's the latest stage of that strategy, donald trump has hired dr. scott atlas as a white house pandemic adviser. he has downplayed the importance

of wearing a mask and preventing spread of the disease. he's downplayed testing falsely saying that children can't catch covid-19 and he's lifting all pandemic restrictions to embrace herd immunity which could lead to hundreds of thousands of infections and deaths of americans. trump reportedly first found out who atlas was, he's a neuroradiologist with no experience with infectious diseases or epidemiology. found out about him from the doctor's appearances on fox news and he liked him because his views aligned with trump's desire to pretend that the pandemic doesn't exist and to focus instead solely on his represent election. consequences to the public be damned. that include trump's politicization of a vaccine and constant claims that one will be ready by election day, which has little basis in science and no basis in safety. fortunately, several of the major companies that are working on a vaccine reportedly plan to issue a public pledge that they will not seek government approval until that vaccine has been proven to be safe and

effective. at least someone out there is thinking sensibly. meanwhile, trump has revealed that under his leadership, the united states of america is not prepared for the responsibility of taking part in the global covid-19 vaccine effort. america will not be joining that cause. president trump once again revealing that america first really is america alone. when we come back, former obama health and human services secretary and health policy expert join me to discuss donald trump's lack of a covid-19 strategy. o discuss donald trump's lack of a covid-19 strategy.

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everybody felt fine. but now im super sick. everyone is sick. i just wish we had been more careful. it would have been easier than this. so wear a mask. do what you can outside. stay six feet apart. because some things you just can't take back. do your part to lower the risk.

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or death work. >> at every turn, president trump has politicized the pandemic and it comes at the cost of our health and our lives. joining me now is the former secretary of health and human services in the obama administration, kathleen. she's the former governor of kansas. also with me tulsa pulitzer prize winner laurie garrett. she's a science contribute fortor nbc news. she's been covering the coronavirus with us since the beginning. she has written a book, the coming playing and the betrayal of trust. welcome to both of you. secretary, let me ask you first, there is no consistency to what is coming out of this whouthis in terms of coronavirus. it continues to encourage not wearing masks and social distancing, the president says it is what it is about the rate of death that we're facing. it stops listening to these projections, it's inconsistent

on report og thining on things we have scat atlas who seems to be more political than public health oriented. >> i think you're right, ali. it's baffling why in the world the president who is desperate to get the economy back on track can't understand that you have to get the virus under control to get the economy back on track. communication is one of the keys of public health. you need people to trust what you're saying, you need to have some system of scientific fact and belief that you're telling folks the truth, even. it truth isn't pleasant. and this president isn't capable of doing that. you watched him during the convention with people shoulder to shoulder in the white house breaking the law and also breaking all the public health rules. you saw the rally in pennsylvania, he mocks his opponent for wearing a mask. what in the world is that about? we've got kids trying to go back to school who will all wear

masks. what is the matter with the president of the united states who is willing to tolerate a thousand deaths a week and now has a so-called scientific adviser who knows nothing about infectious disease, who doesn't have a public health background, who seems to be promoting herd immunity. herd immunity is about how many people need to get vaccinated in order to protect others. my 16-week-old granddaughter can't get a vaccination so everyone around her needs to be vaccinated. is insanity and it's killing people every day. >> lor,ry, i'i, they're saying november 1st there will be a vaccine available. even if you take them at their word there are a lot of caveats about that. they are talking about it being available on an emergency basis to high-risk groups. you and i have discussed this before. no vaccine release should be

determined by press release or political motivation. you actually tweeted yesterday, it's awfully important, top bio med executive sending an open letter on covid-19 meds and vaccines, quote, our nation's leaders should resure the nation that politics will not influence the release of medicines. it should be based on rigorous collection and assessment of data by all the appropriate bodies and that i distribution should be based on sound public health considerations. it does not appear that that is what is motivating the white house at the moment. >> it's unbelievable that that even needs to be stated out loud. you know, in all prior administrations, of both parties, the fda had standards to live by. cdc had standards to live by. epa and so on. and we, the public, trusted those institutions to protect us by living by their own standards, how they approve drugs, how they approve vaccines, how they carried out

their public health duties. this administration has consistently forced the epa, forced fda, forced cdc to violate their own ground rules. and in this case, to approve drugs that are dubious beyond belief to say okay to hydroxychloroqui hydroxychloroquin hydroxychloroquine, reversing their own decisions. now they're asking in less than 56 days we have a vaccine going out in all 50 states, and that all governors are required to submit their mass vaccination campaign proposal to the cdc on october 1st, days from now, and be prefired actually mass vaccinate under the direction of a private contractor, mckesson, on november 1st, is outrageous. >> secretary, the university of washington has a group called

the institute of health metrics. they are one of the groups that have been projecting what the rate of death will be, infection and death will be from this coronavirus. and they are predicting now 410,000 u.s. deaths by jan 1st. one of the things that lori pointed out in a tweet yesterday is that this group and others, part of the reason why the white house liked using them is they've been conservative in their estimations. so a group that is not prone to hyperbole is saying 410,000 deaths. on the other side you've got the president saying it is what it is. >> well, again, it is terrifying is what it is. everybody in america wants a safe and effective vaccine. everybody wants the pandemic to be over. we want to get back to normal lives and normal commerce. but we cannot rush a vaccine. you need people to trust that it is safe and effective and we need to have somebody in the white house tell us the truth or get out of the way.

that would be even better. don't make this about politics. we have to have a massive vaccination campaign right now, and that should be about people getting the flu shot. if the president wants to talk about something, talk about that. the flu shots are available, we need the public to embrace getting a flu shot this year so we don't have a double dip of a virus circulating in our country. but they seem incapable of telling people the truth and being able, as lori said, to get out of the way of the scientific agencies. we've had the nih have to correct the cdc. we've had the fda commissioners step up and have to apologize for misinformation. i've never seen anything like this in my life and people will actually lose trust in the fact that they're getting -- >> yes. >> -- correct scientific information. >> well, and if i may add -- >> first time in my life that i have to -- yeah, it will be the first time in my life that i'm reaching out to people like lori

and others to say, hey, is it cool to get this vax seen in i've never actually asked anybody about whether it's safe to get vaccines because i trust that our government does it the right way. thanks to both of you. kathleen is the former health and human services secretary under barack boeobama. lori is a prolific author and an msnbc news contributor. facebook taken its biggest step before the election, but does it go far enough? that's next. e election, but does it go far enough? that's next. how about no no uh uh, no way come on, no no n-n-n-no-no only discover has no annual fee on any card. an army family who is always at the ready. so when they got a little surprise... two!? ...they didn't panic. they got a bigger car

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phobe who's running for congress in florida's 21st district, trump's home district, by the way, this after trump himself congratulated loomer for winning in august. she has been banned from most social media platforms after making offensive comments towards representative ilhan omar and her muslim feigning and f faith and promoting hate overall. plus, we have her bran dishing a weapon and conserve activities need towed go on the offensive. there you see three democratic members of the house, facebook took the post down for inciting violation. now, prufrps endorsed green for her 14th congressional seat. she is on track to win that election. in florida and georgia, candidates who were considered fringe have now been broadened to the grand old party by our commander and chief. but this election year social media giants are being pushed to do self-policing as their unwillingness to do so in the

past has helped radical stream extremist ideas to infiltrate the mainstream. twitter's been more aggressive in flagging tweets from world leaders that violated standards including trump including fact checks and warning labels on misinformation. this week facebook announced new policies that included barring new political ads one week prior to the election. the company addressed a major worry that democrats will try to de la gil g delegitimize the election results if they don't show a win for him. mark zuckerberg spoke about it earlier in an interview this week. >> how are you handling the president of the united states to let him know and let the people who are using your platform that this is misinformation, is it not? >> i certainly think that anyone who's saying that the election is going to be fraudulent, i think that's problematic and i think additional context needs to be added to that. >> it's not just anyone. it's not just a regular joe, it's the president of the united states. >> this will definitely apply to

the president once this policy goes into place and it will apply to everyone equally. >> now, to say that there's a lot at stake here is an understatement. what these companies decide to do or not to do to address disinformation campaigns that spread on their platforms could very well swing the results of the election. and right now it looks as if they're trying to prove that they are up to the task of self-policing. facebook and twitter both flagged the president's statement this week that encouraged voters to vote twice and twitter now says it will change the way that users view trending topics on the platform. after members of fringe group cue qanon as part of a campaign to link them to child trafficking. twitter trends were cited as a major tactic used against hillary clinton's campaign in 2016. now, will these changes be enough looking forward to stop the constant flow of disinformation? joining me now is nbc news investigative reporter brandy. she's along with nbc's ben collins will join me tomorrow at 9:00 a.m. for a special hour

called velshi, the disinformation epidemic. good morning to you. i have seen a couple tweets from you when facebook made this announcement. the first one was, wow, a whole week, this that should do it. another one you tweeted someone else and you said not sure how you can concede that there are legitimate concerns about how your platform used to manipulate elections and then say you're only going to do something about it for one week. i take it you don't think this is a full throated job on facebook's part? >> it's absolutely toothless. this is one of the most toothless things i've seen them roll out, actually. at least with vaccines and with hate groups they took a more full-throated approach to their new policy. but there's a number of problems with this. one, by the time it goes into effect, half of americans will have already voted. two, facebook, as you noticed, isn't banning all ads, it's just banning new ads. so if i'm in the trump campaign and i want to have an ad that says something terribly false or

delegitimize dollars the results, i'm going to go one week and one day and i'm going to place an ad and i'm going to blow it up and run it till election day. so it's just -- it doesn't quite make sense. another problem is, you know, the biggest way that misinformation spreads isn't really through ads, it's more organically. it's videos, posts, a lot of private facebook groups. facebook has done very little to quell misinformation this those places. they're not fact checking politicians, so donald trump has been using and the trump campaign has been lying in their ads forever. and they're still doing it right now. they're saying that biden wants to defund the police. fact checkers have proven that's true. he's been calling the election rigged and questioning the legitimacy and the safety and the -- of mail-in voting ballots. he's using it for mississippi information. he misinformation. he will continue to do so. this week long pause, it's a

joke. >> i want to ask you about the "new york times" opinion column the headline is mark zuckerberg is the most powerful unelected man in america. given what we know about 2016 and that election and the influence that was employed on social media from foreign bad actors and domestic bad actors, is facebook, is social media able to influence the outcome of this election? >> i would think that my good friend charlie at the new york times is absolutely right. and i think, you know, mark zuckerberg often says that he doesn't want to be the arbiter of truth. but facebook for many, many americans determines what news we see, determines what people we have relationships with, determines what communities outside of our families and friends that we join, determines what we believe about public health and public safety and the list goes on and on and on. facebook has control over so many areas of our lives. it's really wild. and they need to take

responsibility for that. >> i want to ask you about what we're going to talk about tomorrow. we are going to give people something that you do all the time with ben, we're going to give people real tips on how to catch information that is false, how to avoid it, how to fight back. you're going -- you and ben are working up some actual tips that regular people can employ immediately. >> yeah. i think keeping this in mind that social media platforms have long neglected their duty to sort of curate an experience online that doesn't amplify the worst voices, that doesn't make the experience for us that you are dangerous. so, we're sort of through asking the platforms to do meaningful things to make meaningful changes. at this point, it's going to have to be in the hands of the information consumer. almost like, you know, we have a polluted information environment where, yes, we want the gas companies of the world to clean it up. yes, we want facebook and twitter and all the rest to clean up their platforms.

but at some point it's going to be us cleaning up our own backyard. so we're going to give you a lot of tips for how to spot this information and share good stuff with your communities. >> excellent, brandy. thank you for that. nbc news investigative tech reporter. please follow her and ben collins on twitter, you learn a lot. brandy joins me tomorrow with ben collins for a velshi special report, the disinformation epidemic. we'll talk about how weaponized disinformation spreads and how to spot it, identify it, how to avoid it and fight back. tomorrow morning, 9:00 a.m. eastern for an entire hour. are police trying to smear the reputation of a woman whom they killed? according to breonna taylor's family, taylor family attorney, the louisville law enforcement tried to wrongfully implicate her in crimes after they gunned her down in her own home. crim her down in her own home. with fidelity wealth management, your dedicated adviser can give you straightforward advice and tailored recommendations. that's the clarity you get with fidelity wealth management.

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learn more at trulicity.com. for spending a perfectly reasonable amount of time on the couch with tacos from grubhub? grubhub's gonna reward you for that with a $5 off perk. (doorbell rings) - [crowd] grubhub! (fireworks exploding) 176, that's how many days have passed since breonna taylor was killed by louisville, kentucky, police. activists are undeterred. they continue to do their level best to get justice for the late 26-year-old. protesters will decent on the churchill downs racetrack today, the site of this weekend's kentucky derby and also the site where their cause will get the most notice. meanwhile, the case has developed on multiple fronts. this week, kentucky's attorney general announced that he received the ballistics report from the shooting but he has not

yet revealed its findings or what they may mean for the investigation. vice news also reporting that new photos show at least one of the officers who burst into taylor's home that night was wearing a body camera contradicting statements from louisville police who said narcotics officer don't wear them on the job. this also comes as a former boyfriend tells the louisville courier zwlaurnl poli courier that police tried to get him to sign a waiver to implicate her in a crime syndicate. he posted a photo on social media of what he says was the plea deal that had the police tried to smear her painting her as a felon after her death. it's unbelievable. they tried to use her as a scapegoat for her own death. taylor's casend at ensuing controversy is a new documentary "the new york times" present the killing of breonna taylor. it sheds even more light on the egregious circumstances of her death. here's a snip.

>> well where's breonna? i need to see breonna? >> i told them hold on one second, i'm not at liberty to say anything that happened. then i went to go get i detective and they went and spoke to breonna's family at that point in time. >> it was about 11:00 in the morning when he comes back over and says they were almost done. and i said, okay, that's fine, but where is breonna? and that's when he said, well, ma'am, she's still in the apartment. so, i knew then what that meant. >> joining me now, the award winning documenttarian who

produced and directed the bree olympiana taylor documentary and nicole jones "the new york times" magazines and cofounder of the 1619 project. what, in that documentary, we have a problem saying her name. women who get shot, women of color in particular get forgotten. we certainly don't know collectively the story of the killing of breonna taylor. what is in there that you want most americans to understand. >> thank you for having me, velshi. what i want americans to understand is that the killing, the loss of this young woman is not just the loss to her family, but was the loss to a whole community. she was a daughter, she was the beloved daughter of palmer who we saw in that clip. she was a sister who lived with

her who also was put in harm's -- she happened to be out of town but she could have been killed because of all the bullets that were in the apartment. she was the girlfriend of kenny walker and so the loss of her was a loss of the -- to the community, to the -- and to the city and that is why we are seeing these uprisings because it's not just the loss of this young woman at 26 years old but what she meant to all the people around her. and that's what i want people to understand. >> and nicole, it's sort of a point that you've made a lot of times whether it's about saying her name or saying their name that these are people and our society doesn't necessarily register them as people. they are statistics, they are another installment in a series we've seen and only until we see these victims of police violence as people in their own right

with families and with aspirations and with potential and with a future will we realize what's going wrong. >> yes, thank you for that documentary. i just think it's so beautifully illustrates that point. at the same time, these should be unnecessary. the fact that we have to prove the humanity of people who are killed by armed agents of the state speaks to the fundamental issue. the "washington post" just recently did an article that showed about 20% of all of the women who are killed by police are black women and about 28% of unarmed women who are killed by police are black women. and we've seen these efforts to smear breonna taylor, to somehow justify her death which occurs again and again, so one i think should be clear that even if you have committed a crime or even if you are accused of committing a crime you don't deserve to be executed by the police in a

country that says it believes in due process, but we often see this kind of retroactive trying to justify police violence by dragging the names of those who are killed through the mud. so this documentary is a pushing back on that and telling a story that these losses once we've all moved on, these families and communities are still having to deal with these losses and on top of that having to deal with the loss and devastation of achieving no justice for the killing of their loved ones. >> can i just add -- >> please, go ahead. >> i just want to add the word that we haven't said yet and the word that kept coming back to me in making this film is the trauma. the trauma to the friends and family, to the city and to us as a people and i think again, that's why you're seeing these uprisings because these are traumatic events even, you know, we see it -- people see it on

the news, it flies by, but the pain and suffering is really, you know, uncal cue labl. >> do you find that's changing? the protests are indicating that americans at large, black and white, young and old are feeling this as their trauma. they're finally registering something that nicole tweeted the other day on september 3rd in which she said guilty or not, in a system if which due process is supposed to be the foundation the police are not judge, jury or executioner, that we need to not wake up in the morning and find more stories like this. >> absolutely. i mean, i do feel that there is a shift in the fact that -- i mean, these police killings have been going on all my life, all my parents' life. this is nothing new as we know. but we are finding a shift in how it is motivating and people

and how people are understanding, you know, white people for, you know, and other people of color are understanding that this is part of, you know, this is part of our reality and has been for a long time and i think these sustained protests show that. now the question is will we get real reform because as nicole said, this is, you know, we are -- the police can't be judge, jury and executioner. even if a person is accused of a crime which breonna was not and no drugs or money were found in her apartment even though she, you know, they had their reasons which we lay out in the film for getting the affidavit, which is, you know, contended by -- you know, which is her family, you know, has issues with, but even if that's the case, there is a process in this country and then you look at the bigger issue which we talk about too, the war on drugs.

this was all in pursuit of some drugs. i mean, how is a policy, a war on drug policy which has targeted african americans, not just, but disproportionately, how can this war on drugs policy, how can we allow this pursuit of drup in the loss of an innocent person. that makes no sense. >> i wish we had more time for this conversation but we will make more time for the conversation in shows to come. thank you. the brucer and director of the killing of breonna taylor. it's streaming on netflix and hu hulu. and thank you to both of you. that does it for me. thank you for watching velshi. catch me back here tomorrow morning from 8:00 to 10:00. and don't miss our 9:00 hour tomorrow. next we speak with cory booker

and beto o'rourke and i'll be back with her in the 11:00 hour. you're watching msnbc. you're watching msnbc. discomfort back there? instead of using aloe, or baby wipes, or powders. try the cooling, soothing relief of preparation h. because your derriere deserves expert care. try new soothing relief.

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