innocence -- >> it's complicated, huh? >> that is had created a rift between the two of you? >> yes. >> surely not easy for the children of dave and debbie hawk. >> we do the best we can. that's all for this edition of "dateline." thanks for watching. i'm craig melvin. >> and i'm natalie morales. >> this is "dateline." >> how do you feel that so many people think that steven avery is innocent? >> it's emotional. they made him look like he was a nice person. >> what's happening is wrong. >> the evidence is beyond overwhelming. steven avery is guilty. >> i'm innocent. >> the story gripped the nation, in the series, "making a murderer." >> so many americans have heard about it. >> it's being heard around the

world. >> steven avery and his nephew convicted of murder in the killing of a young photographer. were they really innocent? >> i didn't do it. somebody's doing a good job against me. >> did you have a vendetta against steven avery? >> absolutely not. >> for the first time on television, a lead an investigate defends his interrogation which led to a conviction overturned. >> it was seen as a false confession. >> it was a real confession. >> those officers wanted that information in the worst way. and they got it in the worst way. >> the prosecutor fights back with an explosive book. >> people will hear the other side of the story. >> and a promise from steven avery's new attorney. >> do you think you have evidence that can free steven avery? >> we do. welcome to "dateline."

it's an extraordinary case that defies easy answers. at the center of it all, steven avery. he and his teenage nephew were convicted in the brutal murder of photographer teresa halbach. then a documentary series with information so explosive that investigators have been forced to fight back. two sides, one truth. who will you believe? the mystery of what happened here in rural wisconsin has captivated the country. >> we find the defendant steven avery guilty. >> reporter: in 2015, the netflix series "making a murderer," convicted of murder. it convinced that they were railroad by law enforcement. it's a case "dateline" has been following for a decade.

as the lawyers work tirelessly to free them from prison, we pose the questions that everyone has been asking of the people that put steven avery behind bars. why would steven avery do this? >> that's a good question. >> reporter: we asked ken katz, who wrote a book about this. that steven avery made himself a murderer. >> he started planning this event the first day he went to prison. >> reporter: and we talked with a lead investigator of the case, who has come under fire for this controversial interrogation. >> you've stayed silent through this firestorm. why are you sitting here today? >> i realized that someone needed to speak out to tell the truth of what happened. >> reporter: so, what did happen here? the story begins with the woman at the heart of this case, a 25-year-old photographer from wisconsin named teresa halbach.

she loved being behind the camera. kim and teresa were friends in college. both were photographers working at the same studio in green bay. kim says teresa had a special way with her subjects. >> she could make them smile. i think that's what she loved to do. make other people smile. >> reporter: the two stayed in touch after they launched their careers. but that would change suddenly on october 31st, 2005. the story on the local news, she was missing. investigators say the photographer was on assignment for auto trader magazine when she disappeared. >> i just kind of dropped knowing it was somebody i knew. >> reporter: what do you do at that moment? >> i felt helpless. you want to try to deny it and get in touch with her. >> reporter: did you try to call her? >> i tried to text her. >> reporter: no response? >> no response. >> reporter: wisconsin police put on a massive search,

bolstered by volunteers. after two days, a big break. >> we have found a rav 4. >> they found teresa's vehicle on the avery yard. >> reporter: tom fast bender, then a special agent with the wisconsin department of criminal investigation hustled over to the land in manitowoc county. had you heard his name before? >> only through the media. >> reporter: steven avery was a big story. he was convicted of rape in 1985. but 18 years later, dna evidence exonerated him and he was freed. a wrongfully convicted m man welcomed back into society with open arms. >> were you aware he had filed the lawsuit against the local sheriff's department? >> i heard that. >> reporter: avery was hoping winning the lawsuit could help him get back on his feet. >> he had an opportunity to make something of his life. it appeared he was headed in

that direction. >> reporter: now, two years after the conviction, he was back in the news and not in a good way. >> i hope she comes back. when fassbender arrived on site, he learned teresa halbach had an appointment on october 31st. she was there to take photos of this van. >> this is teresa with "auto trader" magazine. i'm the photographer. just giving you a call to let you know that i can come out here today, in the afternoon. it will be around 2:00. >> reporter: steven avery confirmed to investigators that teresa had been on the property that day and lift around 2:30 p.m. avery didn't tell them much more. but for investigators, a dark tale started emerging from the physical evidence, especially when they made a gruesome discovery in the back of teresa's suv. >> we find teresa's blood in the

vehicle, primarily in the cargo area of the rav-4. >> and in the front, more blood. >> there was blood on some of the upholstery and a very telling swipe of blood near the ignition switch of the vehicle. >> tests showed that blood was steven avery's, taking him from person of interest to prime suspect. you believe you can explain the blood from steven avery? >> well, yes, absolutely. steven avery had a cut on his right hand, middle finger that was freshly scabbed over. if you took that key and put it in that ignition switch, it lined up perfectly with a contact pattern swipe. >> how did he explain that cut? >> i'm not sure i remember. i think he claimed he cut in the junkyard doing work on vehicles >> he feared the worst. and after days of searching, his team found something disturbing in a fire pit near avery's trailer. >> what appeared to be bone fragments. >> human bones.

most interesting because family members told investigators steven avery built a bonfire hours after teresa had been at the yard that day. >> it was a huge bonfire, flames as high as the roof on the garage. >> was it all making sense to you? >> looking at the whole picture, absolutely. >> and that picture came into sharper focus when fassbender's team found another clue, teresa's key in avery's bedroom. >> the toyota key, with the fob. >> this is huge. >> especially when the crime lab later found avery's dna on it. it was a highly controversial clue. the evidence was stacking up against steven avery and fassbender said the rav4 would tell investigators one last thing. >> we had tested the hood latch and found dna matching steven on the hood latch. >> fassbender believed avery had

explaining to do. nine days after teresa's disappearance, he and his partner brought avery in for an interview. "dateline" filed a freedom of information request to obtain the video. >> you know the key is there because you put the key there. that's the only way the key gets there. >> no. >> yes, steve, yes. >> avery was defiant and even claims cops were framing him, planting evidence. >> the cops have evidence. >> fassbender and wiegert weren't buying it and placed him under arrest. >> i didn't do it. somebody's doing a good job on me. >> investigators were convinced they had their man. still, they didn't know how or why teresa had been killed. coming up -- shackles, handcuffs, strange behavior. >> teresa's creeped out. >> could something in his past have led him to murder? when "dateline" continues. [♪]

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in january 2006, steven avery pleaded not guilty of killing teresa halbach. and ken kratz began chronicling his case. it's all in his book, avery. what do you feel people know the least about in this case? >> the book is about steven avery that is setting forth a better representation of what the real evidence was. >> better, he says, than the way the evidence was presented in "making a murderer." for the first time, kratz lays out his theory with new details he's never shared before. for one thing, kratz told "dateline" he believes steven avery had set his sights on teresa halbach in the weeks

leading up to her murder. >> as we move closer to october 31st, we see steven's behavior changing. >> as kratz got "auto trader's" records, he learned teresa had made five earlier visits to the salvage yard to take photos, some at steven avery's request. >> he starts making calls directly to teresa halbach rather than going through "auto trader." >> and kratz determined on the day before one of these visits, avery purchased these shackles and handcuffs. when teresa arrives -- >> he answers the door wearing a small white towel. and teresa, we know is creeped out by that behavior. she tells friends and co-workers about that. >> kratz believes avery's behavior shows signs of a sexual obsession with teresa that led to murder. why would steven avery do this when he was on the verge of getting this big windfall, potentially millions of dollars? >> that's a great question.

you know, i don't know. we know he's a psychopath. we know that he has -- >> do we know that? >> well, i -- let's say, i allege that. i believe that, deep down. >> kratz discovered more in avery's past. 18 years before teresa's murder, avery wrote this letter to his estranged wife from prison, saying, i will kill you. and a former fiancee told police he had physically abused her. and kratz said he learned something even more disturbing. this 2006 police report accuses avery of raping a teenage girl a year after he was released from prison. it all came together for him. he believed avery had developed a deep resentment of women which had started with his wrongful conviction and had only grown over the years. >> he has no remorse for his behavior, feels incredibly entitled. >> but as he continued to investigate the case, kratz had a problem.

you still didn't know how she was killed, exactly where she was killed. was that bothering you? >> yes, but sometimes you have what you have. it was all coming together in bits and pieces. >> he and his team kept digging until they got a big lead. >> have a seat. >> in march 2006, four months after teresa's murder, tom fassbender and his partner spoke with avery's 16-year-old nephew in a series of highly scrutinized interviews. what was your opinion of brendan dassey? >> a shy kid, somewhat introverted. >> but once he opened up, the details he revealed would stun investigators. >> what else did he do to her? >> raped her. >> did he tell you that? >> fassbender says dassey described a brutal scene. on that halloween afternoon, his uncle asked him to come over to his trailer. dassey said they each sexually

assaulted teresa in avery's bedroom. and avery later shot her in his garage, burning her body in the bonfire. >> it's a game-changer. he told us stuff we weren't really aware of, like teresa was shot in the garage and had died there. >> and after speaking about dassey, fassbender had his team return to the avery property once more. and they found this in his garage, a bullet fragment. and that was missed the first time around. >> well, i guess i could say it was missed. but you're talking about a bullet fragment, looks like a piece of dirt probably. >> and it was tested? >> it was tested. yes, teresa's dna was on that bullet. the bullet was shot from steven's rifle, the one above his bed. >> and do you now believe that teresa was shot in that garage? >> yes. >> one strange thing, though, when they searched the garage for blood, they never found a drop. how could you clean up all that blood? >> well, he did it to the best of his ability, i guess. bleach, paint thinner. that cleans up blood. >> teresa's friend, kim, said

when she heard the details about teresa's final moments, she was heart broken. >> i remember crying and just hoping she was who she was and fought because she was a very strong person. >> ken kratz charged brendan dassey as a co-conspirator in her murder. >> i intend to hold each of these defendants accountable for the rape, the torture, and the murder of teresa halbach. >> but not so fast. dassey recanted his statements. just before avery's trial, the judge dismissed the rape charge against him and didn't allow any of those allegations about avery's treatment of women, saying they didn't prove anything about teresa's murder. and avery was never charged with assaulting his ex-fiancee or with raping the teen. to this day, he denies all the allegations. and those handcuffs and shackles, no evidence ever linked them to teresa.

still, in the spring of 2007, juries convicted both dassey and avery of murdering teresa. they were each sentenced to life in prison. >> you are probably the most dangerous individual ever to set foot in this courtroom. >> it seemed like the avery saga had ended. but eight years later, "making a murderer" would put fassbender, kratz, and their entire team in the hot seat. coming up -- >> did they plant evidence? >> sure, they did. >> was steven avery framed? >> is it possible that that blood could have been planted? >> when "dateline" continues. looks like they picked the wrong getaway driver. they're going to be paying for this for a long time. they will, but with accident forgiveness allstate won't raise your rates just because of an accident, even if it's your fault. cut! sonny. was that good? line! the desert never lies. isn't that what i said? no you were talking about allstate and insurance. i just... when i...

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in december 2015, netflix released "making a murderer" and it ignited a bonfire over the convictions of avery and dassey. now many viewers believe the claims avery had been making all along, that he was framed by law enforcement. >> who would want to set you up in something like this? >> the only thing i can think of it manitowoc county with the money, so they wouldn't have to pay nothing out. >> did they plant evidence? sure they did. >> kim is avery's cousin. she said she predicted something bad might happen to him after he was exonerated in the rape case. remember, he had recently filed a lawsuit against his local sheriff's department for his wrongful conviction.

>> i did tell him, manitowoc wasn't done with him. >> why did you think they weren't done with him? >> something told me they weren't going to hand steve avery $36 million or any kind of money, that they were going to be watching him and look what happened. >> avery settled that lawsuit for $400,000 before his trial. the county did not acknowledge any wrongdoing. he used the money to hire his defense attorneys, dean strang, and jerry butting. >> we knew going in it was going to be a difficult defense. >> we spoke to butting in early 2016. >> we had a very tough defense in this case, because nobody wants to try and use as a defense that the police deliberately tried to plant evidence or frame somebody. >> it goes against society. those people are there to help us, they're the police. >> right. but it's where we thought the evidence pointed. >> avery's attorneys believed the fact that officers from the county he was suing were part of

the search, made for a huge conflict of interest and for possible mischief at the crime scene. >> what i can say from the evidence i've looked at, i think he was innocent, is innocent. >> preparing for trial, butting learned about a vial of avery's blood left over from his overturned rape conviction which had been sitting in the county clerk's office. >> and saw that there was still a styrofoam box that had been slit open with evidence tape. >> that's really the big a-ha moment? >> yeah, it was. >> and for many viewers, it was the a-ha moment in "making a murderer." the attorneys theorize that someone could have poked a hole in that vial and spread avery's blood inside teresa's suv. as for teresa's car key? your theory is that the key was planted in the residence? >> that is where we thought the evidence was pointing. >> by the police? >> by someone. it was not found in six or seven

earlier entries to the trailer. we're talking about a trailer. it didn't add up. >> co-lead investigator tom fassbender worked alongside local sheriff's deputies but was employed by a different agency -- the wisconsin department of justice. this is the first time he's responded publicly to the accusations against him and his law enforcement colleagues. did you have any kind of vendetta against steven avery? >> absolutely not. i didn't know steven avery, didn't know his family. never been there. >> fassbender bristles at the idea the local investigators could have done anything unethical. >> the people that were there that i worked with were hard-working. they only wanted to do the right thing and to do this investigation the right way. >> is it possible that that blood could have been planted? >> no. everything, all the evidence says no. >> fassbender notes that a chemical called edta had been used to preserve avery's blood in the vial.

and that at trial, tests showed no presence of edta avery's blood found in the suv. >> it didn't match. no edta blood in the vehicle. >> fassbender's argument, since that blood found in the vehicle didn't contain the chemical, it couldn't have come from the vial. and he notes that a nurse was prepared to testify she had made that hole in the vial as part of her usual routine when she drew blood from avery. >> so the fact that there was a hole in the top of the vial is normal. >> and regarding teresa's car key, not found until the seventh search of avery's trailer -- why was that key missed during the other searches? >> primarily because of where it was located in a small bookcase that wasn't searched. and if it was, it was just kind of looked at. >> why not do the thorough search earlier? >> i guess part of it is because we didn't lock and load on steven avery. we went in there, did that first search, but we had 12 more buildings and four more

residences to search. so we had a lot to do. >> still, it wasn't just when the key was found that has avery supporters skeptical. it's who found it. these two men. lieutenant james lenk and andrew colburn of the manitowoc sheriff's department. turned out, they had just been deposed in avery's lawsuit. >> well, they were deposed, that we later found out. >> do you think that maybe just them by nature, being with manitowoc that maybe they shurnt have been -- shouldn't have been in there at all. just to avoid all of this? >> it's easy to arm chair quarterback and second guess. i think we would have done that maybe if we had the resources. but you're talking about a small, rural county, being assisted by another smaller rural county. you need resources. >> steven avery says these guys had it out for me. that whole department was angry at me. this was the perfect opportunity for them to have access to my trailer, plant the key.

>> i never absolutely saw that. never saw that from anyone in manitowoc county. >> fassbender says he believes a conspiracy to frame avery would have been virtually impossible to carry out. >> i could go on and on about the planting defense and how absurd it is, with the multiple agencies that we had in there. >> i'm your friend right now. >> but it was that video of brendan dassey which would really put fassbender at the center of the storm. an interrogation so controversial it might get avery's nephew out of prison. >> how much of brendan dassey's confession was true? coming up -- >> those officers wanted that information in the worst way, and they got it in the worst way. >> when "dateline" continues. en. building an experience that lets you shop over 17,000 cars from home. creating a coast to coast network to deliver your car as soon as tomorrow. recruiting an army of customer advocates to make your experience incredible.

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hello. i'm dara brown. here's what's happening. north korea may be preparing to test a new ballistic missile system according to u.s. weapons experts. a test like this would defy

president trump's threshold requirements for continued engagement with the united states. as the 146th kentucky derby kicked off, hundreds of protesters marched to the churchill downs racetrack to demand racial justice. early on saturday, police intervened after a confrontation occurred. now back to "dateline." welcome back to "dateline." i'm craig melvin. investigators deny they framed steven avery for the murder of teresa halbach. after all, his nephew, brendan, confessed. but did he tell detectives the truth or what he thought they wanted to hear? here with more of our story is andrea canning. >> all the renewed attention in the steven avery saga has shed light on the other defendant in the case -- brendan dassey. the teenager had been convicted of rape and murder, but to his

family, none of it ever made any sense. is brendan someone capable of rape? >> no. no. i don't even think he knew what that was at the time. >> in 2008, attorneys took up dassey's case for his appeal. they saw a mentally challenged teen with a low i.q. >> how do you spell garage? >> g-a-r-a-g-e. >> what did you think of brendan dassey when you were able to meet him in person? >> brendan is a simple soul. i was struck by his humanity. this is not somebody i could see committing a crime like this. >> that's the psychological power of interrogation. >> the two attorneys are based at the northwestern school of law in chicago. they've worked to free a number of wrongfully convicted defendants and say what they learned about dassey's case astounded them. >> nobody was in brendan dassey's corner at the moment he needed help the most. >> beginning, they say, with this man.

give me one word to describe len kachinsky. >> unbelievable. >> unconscionable. >> he was on board to defend dassey. they discovered that the attorney made legal mistakes that caused him to be removed from the case. has faced online vitriol from dassey supporters. >> is it okay if i read you some of the comments? >> sure, go ahead. >> disgusting human being. disgrace to the wisconsin judicial system, a man with a sickened soul. >> i've seen it. >> in one instance, kachinsky, working to cut a plea deal, had arranged for his client to speak with investigators, but kachinsky himself didn't show up. >> that was clearly a mistake. >> this is huge, though. >> i agree. >> you have a 16-year-old kid with a low i.q., with no attorney present, no parent. it's kinda like feeding someone to the wolves in a way. would you apologize to brendan

dassey? >> well, i'd apologize to him for not being at that interview. >> so there were mistakes made? >> sure, there were mistakes, but none of them contributed to the verdict in dassey's case. >> there are people who disagree with that. >> oh, sure. >> but as dassey's attorneys delve further into the stunning statements the teen made, they came to believe something more disturbing -- that investigators tom fassbender and mark wiegert had coerced the teen into making a false confession. >> these officers took advantage of a disabled youth and got him to say what they wanted him to say. >> don't lie to us now, okay? come on. what happened there? >> just hurting yourself if you lie now. >> he's got severe learning disabilities, inability to respond in narrative-type answers. and they're in precisely the areas that make him vulnerable

to the kind of tactics the officers used in this case. >> the attorneys say the investigators manipulated dassey with coaxing statements like these from fassbender who was seated just off-camera. >> i'm your friend right now. it's all right. you are doing the right thing. >> they should never have made those kinds of suggestions, that they wanted to comfort him. that all would be well. those kinds of tactics when used on a kid like brendan are a recipe for false confessions. >> and they say the investigators manipulation of the teen escalated far beyond simple coaxing. >> the officers needed brendan to provide information that only the real killer would know. and they knew what they wanted him to say. >> they accused the investigators of planting details about the crime in dassey's mind, to get the answers they wanted. for example, remember steven avery's dna found on the car

hood latch? the attorneys say investigators asked dassey leading questions to confirm that his uncle had looked under the hood of the car? >> did he raise the hood at all or anything like that, to do something to the car? >> yeah. >> what did he do under the hood, if that's what he did? >> i don't know what he did, but i know he went under. >> and dassey's attorney say in that same interview, the investigators used another crucial detail they learned from the case from the forensics. >> tell us what else did you do, something with the head. >> they had received a report from the wisconsin crime lab, indicating for the first time, how teresa halbach had died. she had been shot in the head. they worked extremely hard to get brendan to say that. >> we have the evidence, brendan. we just need you to be honest with us. >> they cut off her hair. >> what else was done to her head?

>> that he punched her. >> what else? it's okay. >> cut her. >> what else happened to her, in her head? >> extremely, extremely important you tell us this. for us to believe you. >> come on, brendan. what else? >> that's all i can remember. >> all right. i'm just gonna come out and ask you, who shot her in the head? >> he did. >> why didn't you tell us that? >> because i couldn't think of it. >> those officers wanted that information in the worst way, and they got it in the worst way. by feeding it straight to brendan dassey. >> even they know that that's bad police practice. >> then, they discovered something at the end of that interview which was a revelation to them, something jurors in his trial never heard. dassey speaking to his mother. >> i never did nothing.

>> did you? >> not really. >> what do you mean, not really? >> they got to my head. >> at the first moment that brendan gets outside the influence of those interrogators, he says, nope, this is not true, they got to my head. >> but tom fassbender, the interrogator himself, sees it all very differently. coming up -- >> this was seen by many as a false confession. >> i feel it was a real confession. he knew right from wrong. brendan was involved in this. >> when "dateline" continues. free deodorants only mask odor? secret aluminum free helps eliminate odor instead of just masking it. and is made with three times more odor fighters. with secret, odor is one less thing to worry about. secret.

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and lowered ability to fight them may occur. tell your doctor about an infection or symptoms, if your inflammatory bowel disease symptoms develop or worsen, or if you've had a vaccine or plan to. serious allergic reactions may occur. learn more at cosentyx.com. for his interrogation of brendan dassey, now seen by millions, tom fassbender has come under fire in court and online. >> this was seen by many as a false confession. do you see it as a false confession or a real confession? >> i feel it was a real confession. >> were you ever trying to extract a false confession from him? >> absolutely not. >> fassbender denies that his expressions of sympathy for dassey were manipulative.

>> i, legitimately, was concerned for him. that wasn't staged, that wasn't strategy. >> why do you think people took it the other way, the more sinister way? that you were taking advantage of him? >> i think that's easy to do. from -- it's a cynical approach, so to speak, watching tv, watching movies, how cops are depicted on those movies, trying to trick people into saying stuff. everything about the interview with brendan was soft, was comfortable. >> but comfortable might not be a word dassey's supporters would use, especially given his age and intelligence level. >> what about his iq? because when you watch him, you can tell that he has a lower iq. >> i don't -- i don't know his iq. >> could you tell that he maybe wasn't like other boys his age? >> more socially probably. i don't know how to cross the iq social line, but he could think and he knew right from wrong.

>> is it possible that he's easily manipulated? >> it's possible. >> he sounded confused at times. >> quite possibly. >> he didn't know what was up and down. i don't know, just watching it. >> i don't know about that. >> my thought is, he had a million things going on in his head at that time. >> fassbender resists charges that he and his partner inappropriately planted ideas in dassey's head, like in that exchange about the hood latch. >> what did he do under the hood, if that's what he did? >> what did brendan say? >> he agreed that steven had gone under there. >> you used word agreed. >> yeah. >> so you brought it up first. >> i believe so. >> that's one of the areas that you came under fire for. >> yes. >> that you were planting things in his mind. >> yes, that's what they said. and there were instances that we did ask him specifically about things, yes. and that can happen in an interview. >> can we take that as a

reliable answer given it was spoon-fed to them? >> their side would argue no. and i would say, based on the entirety of the interview, i would say yes. >> and as for the other moment that has angered so many followers of the case. >> i'm going to come out and ask you, who shot her in the head? >> he did. >> any regrets about that? bringing it up yourselves, about putting that in his head? >> there's always things that you can improve on. there were instances because of brendan's personality that, yeah, we had to talk to him about and ask more specifically certain questions. and it happens. >> what do you say to those people who have made you part of this big discussion about false confessions and who are yelling at their tvs because they didn't like the job that you did? >> just that it's easy to arm chair quarterback. it's easy to second-guess.

that i -- that's partly why i'm here, to explain that there was nothing nefarious done. >> but even fassbender wonders if everything dassey said in the confession was true. >> we didn't try to manipulate brendan. we tried to get at the truth. and i don't believe that it was a false confession. are there parts of it that he may have not done? i don't know. you know, i just don't know. >> in august of 2016, a federal judge weighed in with a bombshell. in response to a brief filed by dassey's attorneys, judge william duffin ruled that brendan dassey's confession was involuntary. with that, the judge overturned his conviction and ordered dassey to be released from prison. >> what was that like for you, hearing that news? >> mixed emotions.

i know we did everything above board, that one magistrate rules that it isn't fine, in his opinion, which is all right. because that's the system. >> are you okay if we walks free? >> i'm not okay if the family's not okay. i believe brendan was involved in this. that he was there and he was involved in it. >> the wisconsin attorney general also believes brendan was involved in teresa's murder. i he appealed the judge's order for release, asking a full panel of federal judges to review the case. in september of 2017, that request was granted. the seventh circuit u.s. court of appeals heard evidence about whether dassey's confession was coerced. nine weeks later, the seven-judge panel upheld the state court's finding that dassey's confession was voluntary, meaning the young man will remain in prison. the u.s. supreme court declined to review his case. dassey's lawyers have vowed to

continue the fight for his freedom. coming up -- >> he told me to watch "dateline." >> how a 6-year-old "dateline" led to a brand-new attorney. >> i said, that's the woman that's going to get steven out of prison.

avery and his supporters were hoping for good news. >> it was around the corner. >> and his one-time fiancee, she said she searched for years to find the right attorney to take on his case. >> he asked her to watch "dateline." we told me to watch it to see the lawyer. >> that dateline program from august, 2011, told the story of ferguson, sitting in prison for a murder he said he didn't commit. kathleen turner was determined to get him out. >> when everything has been lost. you have someone innocent. it is the ultimate challenge, i think. >> i said, that is the woman that is going to get stephen out

of prison. >> she specializes in wrongf wrongfulful convictions. we caught up with her at the correctional institution when she paid a visit to avery. >> do you have evidence that you think can free stephen avery. >> this war room in her office, dedicated to the avery case. >> do we know if that was tested? >> she even showed us this rav 4 she bought, to get a better understanding of theressa's vehicle. >> to much media fanfare, she filed a motion seeking new testing of the evidence. >> was the evidence planted? >> she is known as an aggressive

defense attorney. >> chief legal correspondent for nsnbc. >> she is looking to argue that case was done the wrong way, putting the state on trial. >> she attacks law enforcement, and raises new questions. >> she note that is theressa cell phone pinged off a cell phone tower, suggesting maybe she left there alive. and indications that other people, not from law enforcement entered the property during the investigation, raising the prospect of potential upon ises. >> she won an early round. 2016, a judge granted her access to evidence to perform new forensic test, including more testing from avery's blood from the rav 4.

>> in june, 2017, she requested a new trial. she told dateline, we will be able to determine how the evidence was planted. avery she said, was framed for a crime he didn't commit. >> a wisconsin kir cut court denied the request. she promised she is just beginning to five. as for former prosecutor, ken crafts and his new book, zellener dismisses his claims of treatment of women saying there was no proof he was becoming obsess obsessed. she spokes that mr. kratz has no

evidence he was a psychopath. >> are you afraid of kathleen zellener? >> no, i am not involved in the case. i shouldn't be afraid of anything. my involvement -- >> she could unravel your work if what she is saying has weight to it. you don't think she has a chance? >> i don't. >> why are you so confident? >> we spent 18 months putting this case together. this wasn't thrown together. it wasn't keystone cop, it was done professionally, very well. >> he does have personal regret, in the book, he admits to prescription drug abuse, and sent sexually explicit texts, a scandal that lead to --

>> she is the reason why are talking about this. she deserves to be remembered. >> i love hugs. >> kim said she goes back to this video diary. it was played at avery's sentencing. >> i love to hold a camera in my hand. >> it gives me chills. s she talked about everything she loved. >> anything you would say to theressa. if she could hear you. >> you are still in my heart. i will never forget you.

first up, unrested rochester. new york state makes a key move to investigate a death of a man inform. >> and a fear of a surge to coronavirus cases. >> a book by the president trump's former fixer. the white house goes on the