could, perhaps, that ballot will not be used to be counted in that your vote has been cast and tabulated. this way you're guaranteed to have your vote count. send it in, and then see and then vote and let's see what happens. >> good morning. welcome to "a.m. joy." i'm maria teresa kumar. we are facing unprecedented threats to our election including from the president of the united states himself. during a north carolina telerally trump appeared to encourage them to vote twice which i repeat is illegal. with growing unrest and more damning revelations about his character, trump is trying to cling to power by sowing disinformation not only about this election but 2016s. >> i think i did win the popular vote. i think there was tremendous cheating in california. there was tremendous cheating in new york and other places. >> we know that that's code word

for people of color. one major difference between now and 2016 is trump has power over the intelligence agencies. perhaps this is why homeland security had delayed a report on russia pushing false narratives about biden's health. this comes after the office says it will no longer hold in person briefings in congress to talk about foreign interference in the elections. joining me now is house speaker nancy pelosi. we need to go to break. we'll be right back. pelosi we need to go to break we'll be right back. >> tech: at safelite, we're here for you

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thanks for hanging tight. we had some technical difficulties but we're all ready to go. joining me now is house speaker nancy pelosi. >> good morning, maria. >> good morning, speaker. so wonderful to see you today. >> my pleasure. >> i wanted to have the conversation about the fact that donald trump, speaker, does seem -- he seems to want to stall this election. he's encouraging the voters to vote twice. he's making sure that the intelligence -- you don't get the intelligence briefings live. what does that signal to you? >> well, what it signals he's engaged in fright and fear as usual. and what we're saying to people is do not pay any attention to what he is saying. he wants to discredit your vote. we understand what he's about.

we intend to mitigate for the damage that he's causing and we're doing so with an aggressive get out the vote, but also to point out what is at work here. not only is the president engaged in activities which could be unlawful and voter intimidation and the rest but he has people like facebook and i thank you you and mr. velshi for what you showed you this morning because it's in their business model to make money off of things that may or may not be truthful. that's what they did in the 2016 election. they knew that money, rubles, coming from russia and they didn't pay any attention it to. so we have to understand again some things that the social media is a force for good but it's a double edged sword and in this case a sword against democracy. >> speaker, i'm glad that you

brought that up. oftentimes facebook says that political advertising is nearly 1% of the revenue when in fact 1% translates to over $600 million. it's not small. in that when you talk about spreading misinformation, i want to talk about also how putin oftentimes tries to use this idea that by attacking integrity of the election it actually ensures that people may not vote. do you think that the president is telegraphing something similar here? he's trying to do voter suppression by questioning whether someone's vote will be valid? >> yes, indeed. i think that's exactly what his purpose is. it's to say why should you vote, your vote will not be voted as cast. it's a tactic that must be ignored. leader schumer and i are writing to our colleagues about this very subject, that again, undermines the legitimacy of our

elections and it's in putin's style and putin likes to discredit democracy, ours or others around the world. the president is being an accomplice in that and what he is saying. so it is -- this is glorious for us and in under 60 days we'll have the election and have the results and we want to have people know they can vote and not have to risk their health in order to cast their vote. no matter what the president says about vote twice, everybody should know that's wrong and he has been told that. even though his attorney general again is a henchman of the president in that regard. it pains me to say that on a prayerful sunday morning, but nonetheless, the facts must be faced. >> speaker pelosi, why does putin want to interfere in our election? >> well, again, i don't know what putin has on the president

politically, personally or financially. we'll find out when we see the president's tax returns but i do know he has engaged in these kind of activities in other countries in order to discredit democracy. in order to discredit democracy. and that our own president should be an accomplice to that just raises so many questions. but that's not where that -- let's go forward in a very positive way about how we'll get out the vote. how we're going to make sure people know what is true. because what is sad about what's happening on the social media in this regard too is the opportunity it gives for those who engage in racist behavior and the rest to find comfort among themselves and then the -- shall we say the powers that be in some of the social media companies who want power and money, and by the way, in terms

of facebook, what they want more than anything is no -- is no oversight or no regulation and no taxes to pay. that's what they get with donald trump. so it's in their interests to have acted this way and to continue to act this way, most unfortunate for the country because it could be a -- it has been a valuable asset in so many other ways. as americans communicate with each other. >> and with people who communicate worldwide even if they have family off shore, but it's something we'll explore later on in the hour. i'm part of the national election crisis task force. i joke i do so that not everybody has to. one of the things that's been of our concern is this idea that donald trump will want to declare the election on november 3rd, recognizing that many ballots won't arrive in a lot of precincts until after that date. what can we expect? >> well, i think that we should

expect the worst from the president, but we are preparing for the worst and the best. i think we should figure out all of the angles he may want to play to undermine the legitimacy of the free and fair election and engineer back from there. he will declare victory on the basis of those who voted that day and that's why he's discrediting in advance any vote by mail. which he has engaged in and which the republicans encourage people to engage in. the -- it's so sad. you know -- >> it is. >> but what's real sad, if i may, maria, the congress see the president undermying our democracy, our democratic process and they remain silent if not supportive of what he's

doing. >> how can americans prepare? >> again, the most important thing to do is to vote and we'll again -- i think the right thinking people of any party, you know, i indict the president and the republicans in congress for refusing to help us to make the elections work -- vote by mail, the money that we want to have in the coronavirus legislation, because it is a health issue so that people don't have to go to the polls or stand in line for hours risking their health. but again, it's -- we have many initiatives and some are very nonpartisan as is appropriate to encourage people to ask for their ballots, to get their ballots in to vote as early as possible because frankly, with the manipulation of the postal system that the president is also engaged in, they may try to delay the receiving the ballot

and the ballot be received back to the authorities who will be counting the votes. so he's trying -- russian manipulation, and undermining the postal service which he encourages, misrepresenting the validity of vote by mail it's a horrible situation we find ourselves in. but you know what? we don't agonize. we organize. that's right. >> and we organize and i'm especially encouraged to organize and to unionize so that we can have a fair economy because there's the purpose of the election to make things better for the future, whether it's to save our planet, save our -- save the economic well-being of our families, whether it is the health and well-being as the president is in court trying to crush the aca instead of crushing the virus.

we have a lot at stake at this election, not least of which is our democracy. >> speaker pelosi, you brought up the whole idea of how we need to recover. you mentioned the package, you're talking about, the heroes act you passed back on may 15th and languishing on senator mitch mcconnell's desk. we are seeing people standing in food lines across socioeconomics t paycheck you used to make makes no difference. what are you doing right now to ensure that the american people try to get back on track during a time that seems to be the most devastating economic recession that we have never experienced in our lifetime? >> well, as you said, over three months ago on march 15th -- excuse me on may 15th, we passed the heroes act and it addresses many of the same challenges that america's working families face. we have in their significant funding for food insecurity.

millions of children in our country facing food insecurity. we have had it before. it's exasperated by the virus. we have funding in there to help people pay the rent, republicans have zero funding for that. they have next to nothing for food security. but the fact is is that right now, america's working families are concerned about sending the children to school. if we're going to make it safe for kids to go to school or to open our economy, we must crush the virus. for some reason, because the president does not believe in science, does not accept science and does not believe in governance, he doesn't want to act upon the science, we're in the situation that we're in. since we passed the heroes act, the number of people who have died has doubled because mitch mcconnell pressed pause. we're not doing anything. now, could we have saved all of

those people? not all, but many. the number of people who have been infected has grown by the millions. we have again when we come back this -- the members will be coming back to do committee work this weekend, to vote on it the following week. we have to make sure the public knows how we can solve this and why the administration is standing in the way of crushing the virus. again, they started with calling it a hoax, denial, distortion, delay and here we are. it's such a tragedy for our country. but there is an answer. science science science and science. and that's what we should be following that path and including in the accepting of a vaccine. we're all hopeful and prayerful for a vaccine. we don't want it one day sooner than it is ready. but not one day later. and for this administration to politically interfere and say it should go faster, if and when

the virus -- excuse me, the virus has gone through the process of the fda of for approval and it has the green light from the scientists and from the science advisory board, that will be a wonderful thing and hopefully soon. it's interesting that the leadership of the companies that are engaged in pursuing the search for the vaccine are pledging not to promote or market a vaccine that has not properly been approved. >> they're doing their job, being diligent. >> a huge step forward. >> and i know we're running short on time, speaker, but i did want to ask you specifically around donald trump's alleged remarks that were reported in the atlantic, talking about our military and disparaging ways. saying they were losers. what does that -- what does that

say to you? >> it breaks your heart and let me say this because he's denying and said he called melania how sad it was -- called home to tell how sad it was when she was actually on the trip. so he doesn't even have his mind straight, but nothing unusual about that. here's the thing though. i will say this, because this is my personal experience. i took a large delegation last year to the 75th anniversary of the invasion of normandy. we were so proud. we went there to praise our veterans, to honor them and the number gets smaller and smaller. each time we go. but in preparation for that, there was some interferes in front of the cemetery overlooking the water. in front of the cemetery. when they asked me if i disagreed with the president on anything, i said i never criticize the president overseas. i save for home but i do not ever criticize the president.

but what i learned later and this is what is important is that the president sat there in front of the cemetery and dishonored that sacred ground by engaging in political anti-rhetoric against some of us who were on the trip, including me. i don't care what he says about me but i do care that he says it in front of our deceased men at that time, men mostly. men in uniform who made the ultimate sacrifice for our country. whatever he says about this article and that article, we know that he dishonored them and it's on the record and msnbc, andrea mitchell. >> thank you for your patriotism. thank you. coming up next, details on trump's fixation with putin. that's next. on trump's fixation with putin. that's next. what do we want for dinner?

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never before has an american president played such a subservient role to a russian leader. it's not only dangerous. it's humiliating and embarrassing for the rest of the world to see. it weakens us. >> now we know even more about donald trump's fascination with putin. thanks to former trump lawyer michael cohen's new book. he offers more details about their weird relationship. trump's admiration of russian president putin is simple. above all cohen writes trump loves money. joining me now is the staff writer for the new yorker and not of "surviving autocracy." thank you for joining us. i was looking forward to the conversation today because i have been following you so closely and a lot of things that you have predicted when trump first took office seemed to be coming to fruition.

can you talk about the parallels between putin and with trump and thank you for joining me. >> thank you so much for having me, thank you for the kind words. when trump was first elected i wrote an essay called autocracy rules for survival this was an attempt to talk about what i learned in my many years of living in putin's russia and writing about putin and what i thought americans might not realize was might be awaiting us and unfortunately i was right. there are a lot of things that i learned that really did happen here. i think the most important is the destruction of institutions. i think americans have this incredible faith in our institutions as basically the civil religion and institutions can't function in a vacuum.

they can't function in the face of the bad actor which is what donald trump has proved to me. >> one of the questions that i had for you that really struck is this idea that putin oftentimes likes to deploy anxiety among the russian people to ensure that they kind -- he becomes a magnet back to them. we are seeing very similar tactics right now with trump, with the anxiety that he seems to want to talk about all around law and order. can you speak a bit to that? >> you know, anxiety is the autocrat's wrath. i think trump got elected in large part by speaking to the anxieties of american people. anxieties that are there. economic anxieties. anxiety in the face of the certain and unclear future and a future -- you know, we don't have a common vision about.

so trump manipulates the anxieties quite masterfully, and this is what we saw with autocrats. they say i'm going to take you back to the imaginary past when you felt comfortable, when the world wasn't changing all around you and when things that scared you weren't on your doorstep. donald trump has just ramped it up, right? it's a fascinating thing because he is president, right? he should be taking responsibility for this, but again, we see this all over the world. we have seen this with putin who casts about and says, we're on the verge of catastrophe. i'm the only person who can save us, even though he brought the country to the verge of catastrophe. >> so how can voters really become clear eyed to this as a tactic of creating anxiousness, to continue with the same versus fear of what an alternative person can look like? how can people combat that? i think that's an essence that

we can control if we're enlightened with what is happening around us? >> well, i think naming it is the first step. i think that understanding the tactics, right? i think that stepping into the traps that trump lays is something -- it's difficult to avoid. he's actually -- it's always a trap because whenever he says something, no matter how much of a law it is, we in the media are in the position of amplifying it. how can we lessen the damage, how can we reduce the harm from these statements, anxiety provoking statements and plain lies. one way is by calling lies lies by resisting the urge to keep raising the bar for calling something a lie. it doesn't have to be an outrageous lie but we have to call it a lie instead of saying it's an unsubstantiated statement. call it a lie. and approach trumpism as a

system. talk about what he's actually doing. when he lies. when he talks about law and order, right? don't step into the trap of talking about law and order. talk about trumpism instead. >> and i try to tell my kids, a lie is a lie. they're 6 and 8. but my last question to you which i thought was really revelatory, you made a distinction between trump and his nationalism versus putin and his nationalism. you hint at the fact that putin heads russia but he still deeply loves his country but it's cross to bear. you're saying that's not necessarily the case, that trump is not patriotic. can you speak to those differences and why you think this? >> it's amazing to me that we have a leader that is even more cynical than vladimir putin. that is something where even my imagination would have stalled. i have a great catastrophic imagination, but i think what

putin has -- he has created for himself a sort of a personal myth that he bears the cross of russia only his shoulder and the reason he has to change the constitution and make himself president for life is because it would indeed fall apart without him. it's crazy, you know, it's a delusion. it's a self-aggrandizing illusion, but not as cynical as what donald trump is doing, which is just -- i don't think he has a concept of that. >> thank you very much. we'll have to have you back on. >> thank you. coming up an all-star panel of journalists. don't go anywhere. all-star pan of journalists don't go anywhere. many people with type 2 diabetes like emily lower their blood sugar. a majority of adults who took ozempic® reached an a1c under 7 and maintained it.

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do you think you'll win another term as president? >> donald trump will do anything and everything within which to win. i believe that includes manipulating the ballots. i believe that he would even go so far as to start a war in order to prevent himself from being removed from office. my biggest fear is that there will not be a peaceful transition of power in 2020. >> that's a former fixer of

trump's, michael cohen, and he likens the people around trump to a mafia and even called himself one of donald trump's bad guys. the book also describes multiple alleged racism by president trump. he wrote that trump said that minorities were and i quote, not my people. i will never get the hispanic vote. like the blacks, they're too stupid to vote for trump. joining me now is jonathan allen from nbc digital and author of "shattered." and david cajonson, founder of d.c. report.org and author of it's even worse you think. i want to drink after this. so i want to get into why is it such a bombshell that michael cohen at this time 58 days before the election is joining the circuit with mary trump on selling her books? >> well, i think the big thing

is that he's a member of donald trump's inner circle. he was so trusted that the president gave him the secret money, the hush payments for the former misstresses. he was in on the effort to build the hotels in russia and the reason this is such a big deal is when cohen tells stories about what the president was saying and doing behind closed doors when he talks about what the president's motivations for doing something are, he's not speculating he's not guessing. he's somebody who was this. >> and i want to ask you, david, a little bit about this whole piece that's coming out now. it seems that everybody in the trump campaign that used to be friends with him keeps sounding the alarm on the election. that he will stay in office at all costs. shed some light into this and those tendencies. >> well, donald grew up in the household that the only thing that mattered was winning. it didn't matter if you had to

lie, cheat or steal you had to win. any lie works. i think the most fascinating thing in michael cohen's book based on the report in "the washington post," he confirms that donald says in writing that christians are fools and idiots and schmucks. he doesn't point out donald's life's philosophy, in writing it's revenge, which no christian can possibly believe in. but he holds in utter contempt everyone, not just people of color, but people who are religious and michael cohen tells an incident that they had a prayer vigil with christians and when they left, donald say do you believe in this bs? >> not shockingly the white house is denying the book. basically, the white house press secretary said attacks on cohen's credibility in a statement on saturday, saying he lied to congress. he's lost all credibility and

it's not surprising to see his latest attempt to profit off off lies. what's your take on that? >> this is kind of what they have to do. they have to push back on the books. we are in a campaign season. but it all gets jumbled up in the fact that, okay, they're saying that he's a liar, he lied to congress. everything. he's not necessarily a good guy, but he also was around president trump or then candidate trump or then businessman trump for years and years and years. they kept this guy around. so it's really hard to sort of square the circle there, but they're doing what a campaign has to do which is push back. i think this book -- i don't know if it changes anyone's minds. maybe there's some people on the fence who are conservative who aren't sure about voting and this maybe pushes them over the edge. but a lot of the stuff at least that "the washington post" reported on and i have not read the book yet is stuff baked into the system already. you know? i went back and looked at mary trump's book which i have next

to me to sort of see how she talks about race and the central park 5 and the other stuff. i'm reminded the thing -- at least what we know about michael cohen's book, we have heard versions of a lot of this before. so i sort of think this is a little baked into the election. but it's also about how much more of this kind of stuff comes out, how many more books are going to be written and collectively does that actually change somebody's mind closer to the election? but are you surprised by what we have heard about so far in the book? >> i think it's consistent. i want to throw it over to jonathan, you tell me, do we have trump fatigue? is it so much we're saying once again t president goes after the military and the president goes after hillary clinton. he blames everybody but the russians. he goes after the most vulnerable. do we have fatigue? >> two answers to that question, maria teresa, yes and no. there are two very important differences to things that

happened this week. one with michael cohen, the push back from the white house that he lied to congress, it should be very clear to everyone that what he lied to congress about was the president's dealings in russia in terms of trying to build that hotel. michael cohen in this book is revealing the things about donald trump's desire to build that hotel in russia after he started running for president that's what he lied to congress about. right? so number one, when the white house pushes back on that, that's specifically what cohen went to jail for. he's now revealing what he says is the truth. number two, with what the president is alleged to have said about soldiers, losers and suckers, this goes beyond that. when you talk about -- when you listen to what the president has said, what we have heard him say on the record before it's not just about dead soldiers who paid the ultimate sacrifice. we hear him talk about other

people, people in who are in the inner circle and then out of it and people read this about the people who paid the ultimate sacrifice, what does he believe about me? i think that's why it seemed like it might be more damaging than the things have fatigue over. i think it's why the white house pushed back so hard that the president even gave a six minute statement from under the wing of air force one at andrews air force base coming home from latroeb the other way. >> so you had michael cohen lose prison because of concerns about covid and he said he was sent back to prison because donald trump did not like his book. this does not speak of a president, he seems very petty to the allegations that he mirrors more of a mafia boss than getting vendettas on the little guys than the bigger

picture. can you talk about that? >> first of all this is the government punishing someone over a book they're going to write. which our first amendment doesn't allow. but he's the fourth generation of a white collar crime family. they go around cheating you with contracts, they literally cheated players at one of the casinos. the only time that was ever known to happen in atlantic city with the trump casino. donald trump has been found in judicial proceedings to have cheated and lied to people as ways to punish them. so that's not surprising that he wanted to put cohen back in prison to shut him up. donald does not understand the constitution. he himself said he can do anything he wants under article 2 of the constitution. no, he cannot. >> shauna, how does that resonate with voters? having someone that maybe they have voted for who believes that the law does not apply to him? >> i mean, i think we are going

to see how it resonates with voters in november. but i think the polling shows that there is -- if you go a little bit deeper into the numbers there's about 39% of either registered or likely voters who despite the fact that "the washington post" has reported on thousands of the president's lies, this network has reported on the president's lies, that it doesn't seem to be swaying their particular vote. and then there's another chunk of the country that already has decided they're not vote fork president trump for various reasons. so that's sort of is why i kind of come back and i understand what the other guests are saying but i kind of come back to the idea that the president isn't necessarily the greatest guy in the world, especially behind the scenes and also the idea that it's kind of baked in already into the polling in some of this is already -- it's already kind of there. i think it's also why if you can

go back to the republican national convention and i think we're all kind of glad that both conventions are over, why they tried so very, very hard -- >> which one was the least painful? >> it was more of a collective pain of four nights and then eight nights of convention watching from my couch. though i did have wine to help me. but i think part of why they were so intent or the republican party was so intent on trying to talk about how president trump is behind the scenes, we saw kellyanne conway talked about how she's seen him be nice to a child before, counteract to the idea that behind the scenes he's as caustic is as in front of the scenes and what the books are showing is that behind the scenes and in front of the camera, he is a caustic person as well as the atlantic's jeffrey goldberg's article about what he said about military veterans and people who died in wars, he is that guy.

that guy in front of the camera and behind the camera. but i think the republicans knew that this was something that they had to create an alternate sort of time line about. and so that's part of what that came from as well. >> i think you're the first person to say, at least he's consistent. he's consistent and i think you're absolutely right. thank you for joining me. a reminder to tune into the rachel maddow show as she sits down with cohen himself. up next, a closer look at civil unrest. i'm looking for my client. i'm his accountant. i'm so sorry. [ sighs ] hey! hey man! you're here. you don't trust me here is vegas, do you? well... i thought we had a breakthrough with the volkswagen. we did. yes. we broke through.

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welcome back to "a.m. joy," i'm maria theresa kumar. we start a rochester, new york, where on saturday police used tear gas and pepper spray against protesters. the protest was over daniel prude, police hut a hood over his head and nailed him to the ground while having a mental health crisis. in louisville, kentucky, protests demanded justice for breonna taylor killed by police six months ago. they marched to churchill downs where the kentucky derby took place. earlier in the day the black lives matter activists were confronted by a group of armed trump protesters and tensions rose. there were no physical altercations but police prepared for the protests by blocking off streets and putting up barricades around churchill downs. >> generally this is a reaction to something that's violent, to

something that's a threat. the issue is there's been no violence, there is no threat so to see armored vehicles, to see caging all the way around, miles of caging is ridiculous, it is offensive. >> on the 100th night of protests in portland, o rk, ore police declared a riot after molotov cocktails were thrown to police officers. a right wing activist was shot and killed. the man accused of shooting was shot and killed by federal agents when they were trying to arrest him, this he say he pulled out a gun. the ongoing tensions between black lives matter activists, the police and trump supporters feels like it's about to peak. but with 58 days until the election is this simply the new normal? joining me now is joshua

getzler, kristen clark and norman orenstei nchlorenstein, with me on the national election crisis task force. thank you for joining me, everyone. i wanted to jump to you, kristen clark, because one of the things that really resonated with the protesters saying it seemed a bit obscene to have all of these barriers was something that was said at the top of the show by one of our guests, marcia gessen. she was saying creating anxiety among the public seemed to be a tactic of putin and it seems that president trump seems to be creating that same type of anxiety in middle america. can you speak to how dangerous that is for our elections when we -- coming in november? >> absolutely. the demonstrations and protests that we have seen across the country have been overwhelmingly positive and singularlily focused on the goal of

confronting the crisis of police and racial violence that's gripping our nation and tearing us apart. there is this distraction strategy that is under way, one where we are ignoring the threat of white extremism, we have the head of the -- the former head of homeland security say that white extremism is literally one of the gravest threats that we face in our democracy and our administration has chosen to turn a blind eye to that. but people are marching peacefully and being assaulted by police departments overarmed with riot gear and military equipment that is escalating tensions and really fanning the flames on the ground. my organization the lawyers committee for civil rights under law brought a suit involving one of those peaceful protests that unnecessarily escalated, black lives matter d.c. versus trump, where attorney general barr ordered the use of violence on

peaceful demonstrators. i think that this is a crisis as we approach the election we want to make sure that people are able to exercise their first amendment right to protest and we want to also make sure that people are prepared to wheeled the most powerful weapon that they have in our democracy and that is the right to vote freely at the ballot box. >> norman, i'm going to follow up a little bit about what kristen has talked about specifically around white nationalists because as part of the national election crisis task force i half-joke that the four of us sit on there so the rest of america doesn't have torques norm. talk about how we have raised that as one of the red flags and it seems to be playing out exactly as we've discussed in the scenarios we have discussed. can you give us a little bit of insight on that? >> sure. you know, we have multiple threats here, both in the period right now heading up to the election with a kind of

provocation that will take place from white nationalists who are going to do whatever they can to bring about turmoil in the country, aided and abetted by the attorney general and other officials including the illegally acting secretary of homeland security to try and create turmoil in the cities and alter the nature of the election. a president who talks about law and order and biden's america while he is presiding over it. we also have to worry about the kind of turmoil that will take place that they will instigate as we move closer to the election itself and at the polls for early voting and on election day and with a president who has threatened to put out law enforcement people, armed ones at the election itself and we know of course that the ability of the republican party after a consent decree was eliminated

foolishly and wrongly that kept them from having off duty police officers intimidating voters, voters of color, that we will see some of that as well. we're look at a whole series of threats to a free and fair election and the interestism that we know is the most significant coming from white nationalists makes it a chilling thing, especially when it's encouraged by people in power. >> just to pick up that thread that norm was talking about one of the things as your background with counterintelligence and why i wanted you to join this conversation, oftentimes people don't show up at protests, they are oftentimes organizing and organizing on facebook their tool of choice. can you speak about how that -- how that tool of organizing sometimes can implicate people and bring people about that may not have known about it and sometimes that they are actually russian props? >> that's exactly what we know happened in 2016, that the

russians played both sides, so to speak. they at times got out people on the hillary side, got out people on the trump side and then set them against each other, organizing it all through social media, through facebook and other sites like that. with a deliberate goal, a goal of dividing and poll rising americans and making our dem tracey look wrbrittle, look lik it couldn't handle strong views and strong advocacy. of course it can, the first amendment permits peaceful protests and yet these images that your viewers are seeing from louisville in particular of private unsanctioned militias showing up and intimidating those who want to peacefully protest, that is against the law in all 50 states and that is where peaceful protests can be intimidated to the point of being extinguished which is just what donald trump wants. >> josh, to follow back on that is correct how can viewers be more savvy to the game and to

the game that the russians are trying to perpetuate in our elections potentially? >> we need collectively to be better users of the internet in particular because that is how the russians have their greatest reach. a couple of things are worth knowing, first of all, over half of what gets shared on social media is shared by people who have not read past the head line. not even past the headline and yet it circulates, it goes viral, it takes on the dynamic of truth even though people are not scrutinizing it, not reading it carefully, they are not reading it at all. we need to stop. with he need to be more skeptical, smarter users of the internet. we also need to use the fact-checking sites that exist, snopes and others that try to be as fast as possible in providing an antidote to disinformation called the truth. >> norm, facebook just declared they are going to go dark a week before the election on political ads. is that enough? >> it's a good start at least. you know, facebook has had all

kinds of problems, self-inflicted wounds in this area, as you know, maria, our task force members have tried to engage with facebook, with apple news, with twitter, with snapchat, with all of these different organizations to get them to be much more vigilant about dealing with misinformation and disinformation. i'd like to see facebook do more. i think the week before the election is a good start but it's not adequate. and we also need to have some of our billionaires step up to the plate more, including i would love to see michael bloomberg whose business is built on having these incredible i.t. people step in and help out to weed out some of what the russians are doing with bots and in other ways and, of course, we also know that it's not just the russians, that misinformation and disinformation including about election is coming from other sources besides the russians, domestic ones as well including those who want to

suppress vote. we need the social media groups to step up and we need others as well. >> kristen, you and i have been in conversations with facebook. what concerns do you have right now and how can we ensure, again, the communities that disproportionately are impacted by the disinformation are communities of color, what take do you have? >> facebook and twitter and so many social media companies are simply not doing enough. we need them to be held accountable. i have been a guest at the racial appeals that we're seeing posted on these platforms and mark zuckerberg just doesn't seem to get what a grave threat to democracy is posed by the mass disinformation campaigns by the russian bots that are working to promote racial discord at every turn. i think it is important that we work to try to filter out the fact from the truth and that it's important that we continue to use our voices to speak

truth. to speak truth to power and to speak truth ourselves to the problems of racial violence, the problems of white supremacy and the problems of police violence that we see carried out in every corner across our country. it's important that we protest, it's important that we vote. >> i couldn't agree more with that. joshua, i want to talk to you about specifically what else a user can do in light of facebook and do you think facebook is doing enough? >> i'm glad to see the step they took this week, but i don't think they're doing enough. one week before the election millions of americans likely will have voted already, they will have voted in early voting, they will have voted by mail in ballots and what's more things that ran before that week will be allowed to continue to run that last week. so imagine some piece spreading disinformation, spreading falsity that goes up one day before the week and there is no space for rebuttal on the plal form itself which really does require all of us as users to be

more vigilant. in particular to do the awkward thing, to reach out to friends, to family if we see them contributing to the circulation of junk, but very dangerous junk online, we need to do more than be skeptical, we need to do more than not retweet it, we need to actually pick up an old fashioned phone, reach out to them and say stop doing this, it's bad for our democracy. >> one of the conversations is this recruitment of new poll workers. norm, can you talk about the opportunity we have by bringing this poll workers perhaps that didn't do the job before and why it's important for our elections this year? >> so we have had problems with poll workers for a long time because they tend to be much older and they're not equipped to deal with technology as well. this time because of the pandemic and the crisis we have an enormous opportunity and it's especially true for students. one of the things i've been encouraging school superintendents, ptas and others to do, university presidents and the like, is to get students to be poll workers, not just on

election day, but in the week that will follow when we have to process those votes by mail and to give them credit, community service credit in high schools, credit in civics classes and political science and history classes. this is an opportunity not just to protect our election and we need 250,000 or more to be doing this, but to educate them about our process and voting and then they will be active citizens beyond. we need everybody including all the education associations to step up right now because our system is at stake. >> and i want to give you the last word. what can americans do right now to prepare for the election to ensure their vote is counted? >> well, now is the time to make sure that you are registered, that you are still an active registered and that everyone in your family and community is similarly registered. there are many people who during the pandemic who have made -- may not have taken steps yet to get registered.

next, you need to make a plan to vote. we are encouraging people to not look at 2020 as november 3rd being election day, but to really start to look at october as election month. to look at september as election month. take steps now to figure out how are you going to vote. what are the rules for getting access to absentee ballots in your state? are you going to -- somebody who is going to wait to vote in person during early voting or on election day? and the rules vary across the country state by state, so now is the time to get access to that information. we provide a nonpartisan hotline the election protection hotline, 866-our-vote, and that number is available to any individual across the country who needs help navigating some of the hurdles and information gaps that may stand between them and voting. we want to make sure everyone is empowered with accurate information needed to make sure that their voice is heard in our

democracy in 2020. >> thank you, joshua, kristen and norman. remember, vote early, vote once. coming up, yesterday we told you about texas, texas, texas. today hold your horses, it's all about florida, florida, florida. we made usaa insurance for veterans like liz and mike. an army family who is always at the ready. so when they got a little surprise... two!? ...they didn't panic. they got a bigger car for their soon-to-be-bigger family. after shopping around for insurance, they called usaa - who helped find the right coverage for them and even some much-needed savings. that was the easy part. usaa insurance is made the way liz and mike need it- easy.

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people that believe socialism is good, they are wrong. i came from perú, my neighbors are from venezuela, i traveled to venezuela when i was their ages. beautiful country and now it's destroyed. this is america, the land of the freedom. this is the land of the opportunity. that's what my kids are going to be. people say, oh, you are from perú, you are going to get deported. i can get deported but my kids will be here. don't be afraid. don't be afraid to say trump is my president. for someone who started his campaign calling mexican immigrants drug dealers, criminals and rapists donald

trump still resonates with some of the latinx and caribbean communities. both of which will be critical for him or her -- or -- to win florida. a new poll from a research firm shows biden underperforming with latinx voters compared to hillary clinton in 2016. but it's choice of kamala harris as his running mate with her jamaican and indian roots has electrified a certain part of the largest swing state. joining me is alexei mccommon political reporter from axios, matt beretto and raymond holt. hings for joining me. raymond, i want to start with you because we have talked about florida, florida, florida, you and i, for quite a while and i deeply believe that with harris on the ticket it might be a bit of an october surprise for florida in unexpected ways because she will be galvanizing this demographic that frankly no

one ever speaks to. what's your take? >> i think that's exactly right. you know, we know that people participate when they feel represented and with the selection of senator harris on the ticket, what you've seen is an outpouring of support and ability for vice president biden to reintroduce himself to these communities that are really important for him. florida is the most diverse swing state and electorate, has the most media markets of any swing state and more regional diversity of any swing state. having senator harris speak with authenticity about her journey, about her parents, about vice president biden's character will be really important in november. >> so, matt, one of the things we're seeing is that right after c c kamila was announced there was a bump for the ticket. >> that's right.

mar maria, it's nice to see you hosting the show not just a panelist. we found there was a seven-point increase in support for the biden ticket after harris was announced, we were in the field before and after the announcement and got lucky that that happened. it wasn't just latino voters, there was an increase among latino and african-american voters who we saw it brought more enthusiasm to the ticket, people can resonate of this pick of a woman of color. she has immigrant roots including from the caribbean, something lass know voters in florida might be able to relate to and she has fought for issues important to latinos. it's important to recognize her first trip the day after she won the u.s. senate election was with an immigrant rights organization in los angeles talking about the importance of standing up for dreamers. she has been there and the polling suggests after her announcement there was an ain't crease in enthusiasm for the biden ticket. i think she would be an important secret weapon in

getting out the vote. >> alexei, i want to have this conversation about how this is resonating in your point of view among black and caribbean voters. are you seeing a difference in their take between biden and trump? >> i mean, as raymond said earlier, we know people participate more when they see representation in the ticket and in the people running for office. we've seen that down ballot with various democrats, i'm thinking of jamal bowman in new york who got a last minute boost because of the national conversation focusing on systemic racism and the lived experience in america. senator is a black woman and someone talk being that experience, talked about that experience during the primary is not afraid of talking about that experience now that she is biden's running mate. the first interview she did was with aaron haines an msnbc contributor also a black woman and she said that was a deliberate decision to do that women with the 19th a women's

media publication and with erin. that is something that folks like senator harris can't shy away from because voters to your point are looking for representation. when i talk to racial justice leaders who are democrats and those who are unaffiliated they say in polling even before senator harris was announced it showed black voters in particular were more energized about going out to vote for the democratic ticket if biden were to select a woman of color and a black woman specifically. to your point earlier, we're seeing a little bit of a bump for biden after senator harris' announce. i think it is helping her leaning into her own bio, own experience as a black woman in this country. matt, one of the things that you and i talk about are people throw up their arms and say why is the latino voter even interested in speaking to trump. something that you and i have been able to track is that the trump campaign has never stopped speaking to the latino vote err online. that was the clip that we saw earlier which was -- which i have seen verbatim in actual trump political ads, the woman

at the top of the hour spoke to it. speak to what happens when we don't have the democrats investing all the time, not just in between -- not just during elections but all the time that allows someone like trump to have the message resonate even if imperfect. >> yeah, you know, after the 2016 election in january of 2017 they continued their outreach specifically focusing on south florida. you not only had president trump continuing that, but then you had senator rubio backing him up who had been his opponent and was now his ally. so that continued. i do think early on in 2017 and 2018 there was a gap, there wasn't enough communication from our side on that, but that has picked up dramatically. if you look at the latest spending numbers the biden campaign is outspending the trump campaign in florida on spanish in different mediums, digital, radio, tv and so that is something we have an advantage on now and i think you are going to see the dividends of that. you're going to see. mo. we're already seeing it in a lot of the polls and it's important.

>> can i ask you if you're seeing this movement, is spanish language enough? >> no, and we're not only doing spanish language. there has to be an english language component, you know from from the work at voter latino. those younger latinos are english dominant. they. s are english dominant they evangelicals, young latinos. there's outreach this year. it's. . >> i have to tell you, when she was announced, i felt joy. one of the straj tegies the tru campaign deploy was getting into the nooks and crannies of instagram feeds in the caribbean community. can you talk about that?ut

>> i think that's exactly right. with florida, our elections are decided by 10,000, 20,000, 30,000 votes. as you mentioned, andrew gillum lost by 30,000. we see with the robust social media campaigns that we are able toe run now with hyperdigiteah targeting, harris and biden have to show up on a daily basis, keeping the attention of the voter. it's critically important for him to win this this state. i thi the ability to be on instagram is something something they need to do. what you have seen in florida, you are starting to see

republicans and trump pit black voters against hispanic voters. that's something we should watch out forom and remain diligent o the amount of disinformation. >> do you want to speak about this? trump gained 8 points in florida in the 2016 election among black males. can youmock talk about that stry and how we can combat it? we know 24% of latinos identify as black. >> yeah. look, the president and his re-election campaign are not giving up on black voters in particular, even with all of the civil unrest. the focus on systemic racism and the waysm some in his administration that they don't think it exists. they are courting the voters. he is seeing an uptick in some places with black male voters.

of course, the interesting thing that i'm watching when we are thinking about disinformation, specifically targeting non-white voters, is we have seen a numbee of women's groups trying to create a firewall around senator harris in particular in places like arizona and north carolina. really trying to get out there and combatry the misinformation and disinformation that's spreading about senator harris. to raymond's point, that's trying to pit black voters againstac latino voters through this misinformation and disinformation aboutrm harris. claims about whether she's black and things like that. the right is really trying to weaponize. now we see democratic women's groups fight against that, telling news divisions about the instances of sexist and racist attacks, especially those that are false. we are seeing the ways in which those groups are trying to fight against that. i think that's what's interesting right now. >> matt, on that note, it sounds to me is -- is it possible what

the trump campaign is doing in florida is what karl rove did for president bush did? recognizing he doesn't need to win back whole communities? he needs to siphon off a couple of numbers in order to win florida. could it be that's his strategy? that's what he is deploying, a carl tro karl rove for florida? >> they are not advertising everywhere and going after every vote.oi they have a specific, sometimes chaotic strategy. that's the waych he operates. you saw that in 2016. they won by getting out the excerpts and to rural communities. everyone needs to keep an eye on that. i want to speak to the misinformation. it's at an all-time high. it's incumbent on everyone to make sure they are getting good information and push back,

whether it's about different communities pittedbo against ea other and when election day is how you can vote and what i.d. you need. that's what they are spreading across the state of florida. it's very unfortunate. we are v pushing back very hardo make sure that voters are well informed, know about their choices and will be confident in casting their ballot this year in otflorida. >> iar agree. we have to be clear eyed with was going on. stay with us. we will have more after the break.ay vere rheumatoid arthrit. and take. it. on... ...with rinvoq. rinvoq a once-daily pill... ...can dramatically improve symptoms... rinvoq helps tame pain, stiffness, swelling. and for some... rinvoq can even significantly reduce ra fatigue. that's rinvoq relief. with ra, your overactive immune system attacks your joints. rinvoq regulates it to help stop the attack. rinvoq can lower your ability to fight infections, including tuberculosis.

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i think that donald trump and bill barr are spending full time in a different reality. the reality of america today is what we have seen over generations and frankly since our inception, which is we do have two systems of justice in america. while we have two systems of justice, we also fight for equal justice under law. and that mean doing what joe biden and i are proposing. >> kamala harris blasted donald trump and his attorney general for living on earth two when it comes to racial injustice.

joining us is elise jordan. thanks for joining me. i wanted to jump to you. what is your reaction to what she was saying and how she was framing donald trump and william barr as living in a different reality? >> you know, we have seen this kind of shift in tone from democrats really starting with the convention. we saw folks like former first lady michelle obama and other high profile democrats pushing this idea or this narrative about president trump that he is not fit to do the job as president. they are billing him as incompetent, too incompetent to do the job. we are seeing an extension of that narrative apply to bill barr. it's not that he is lousy or corrupt. it's as you pointed out and as she said, he is living in a different reality. it's painting a further contract between the democratic ticket and the republican ticket by drawing a big picture contrast. democrats are living in reality. they are talking about the coronavirus pandemic in real

time and in present tense because it's still ongoing. unlike republicans who talked about it in past tense at their convention. we are dealing with these issues. republicans like president trump or attorney general bill barr are living in a different reality, not addressing the issues that are happening. to my point, to really tell voters, had is the contrast you are facing in november. >> i want to come to you. take a listen to this. >> i'm not in full possession of the facts of the case. based on what i have seen, i think charges very much should be considered and should be considered in a very serious way. there had you be accountability and consequence. but i think the bigger point here is also that we have to agree that we can't have a system that does not require accountability and consequence for everyone who breaks the rules or breaks the law. that includes police officers. everyone is entitled to due

process. everyone. including police officers. >> that was her response to questions regarding kenosha and her past as attorney general. do you think that this is going to be a tactic of the trump campaign to try to stick her as a law and order -- to break off potential black voters and others? >> i do think there are probably parts of the republican party or organizations that are going to call attention to her experience as attorney general of california and some of the issues there. and they're going to point back to the primary season and that this was something that came up during the primary as people tried figure out the differences between the 8 million candidates that were running for the democratic nomination. i think they will try. i think what kamala harris is trying to say is she understands the law. she understands what her position was before she became a

u.s. senator. she believes in a world where due process is part of it. but also that people have to be held accountable for their actions. but i think going back to what you were saying about the two different realities, they are. the conventions as well as what kamala harris was saying on cnn is about setting up this idea of which reality do you personally live in? which reality do i live in? i live in a reality where there is systemic racism in america. i don't necessarily think that that is the end all be all of every decision that gets made in this country. but i do think that's something that has to be combated for this country to move forward. and if that is the reality that you live in, you may consider voting for biden and harris. if agree with attorney general barr and president trump that we shouldn't talk about racism in the country, then perhaps you will vote for them.

it does set up this stark contrast between how some people see this country and how others -- that's the decision they are laying out for you to make when you go to the ballot box in november or before if you are mailing your vote in, that which version of reality do you want your leaders to be at the top of? >> you are right when you give so much influence to the top law enforcement officer in the country saying racism does not exist and we see the opposite. i want to turn to elise. we are talking about alternative reality. today on fox we actually had them talk about how the republican party was fiscally responsible. i want your take. >> the president i believe we should do more stimulus. we have 7.5 million jobs that we need to get back. until we are back to where we were. we want to help small businesses. we want to help businesses that are particularly impacted by this. we will continue to work on

proposed new legislation. unfortunately, the china virus cost us trillions of dollars. this is like a war. in a war, you have to spend whatever you need to spend. that's the reason why we have spent $3 trillion. we would spent another $1 trillion. >> the racism in his remarks. but what is your reaction? >> if you are a small government conservative but you are still backing the efforts of donald trump and steve mnuchin to explode the debt, god help you for saving your beliefs and putting them aside and just -- it completely disregards any concern for the scope of the deficit. it's funny how people like mark meadows who was a freedom caucus leader now are just falling full

behind donald trump and will spend, spend, spend whatever is necessary. not that incredible spending isn't justified at this point because of the extreme crisis that so much of the nation -- to keep the economy at an even keel when so many are suffering. it's staggering how many republicans have forgotten those beliefs and would probably readopt those beliefs in some government fiscal conservatism if joe biden happened to win. >> let's go now to a quick round of fire. you tell me, what does the white house not want us to talk about? the cohen book or the fact that covid is not getting the relief it needs and we are failing economically with our jobs? >> president trump hasn't wanted to talk about the reality of the coronavirus for a long time. he is willing to focus on the

economy, which is having a negative affect because of the coronavirus pandemic. the cohen book is something that they don't want to come out either. the facts tell us exactly that president trump hasn't wanted to talk about the coronavirus pandemic and the realities facing americans who are dying at an alarming rate. >> elise? >> i think actually the white house doesn't want us to talk about president trump's comments about veterans. his reported comments in "the atlantic" that have been confirmed by numerous other outlets. donald trump says cruel things constantly. it's a marker of the administration, his cruelty on a daily basis. yet, this is one of the few ins den incidents where they are fighting back. >> what's your take? what does the white house not want us it talk about? >> well, i think what they want

us to talk about is their point of view on both of those issues. the unemployment rate seeming better. they want us to talk about michael cohen being not the greatest guy or kind of a liar. in the end, what they don't want us to talk about is the full picture all of these things put together for the country. they may want to say, hey, i think the president was saying that a vaccine, it should be coming sooner than probably almost any scientist thinks we can get a vaccine in this country. they want us to focus on little things but not the big picture. >> that's super helpful. you are right. my panel will be right back. coming up, my panel will tell us what gives them hope. that's up next.

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hope this week. i have to tell you that joy never knew who won the week and i don't know what you are about to tell me. my panel is back. >> well, as a political reporter who misses being out on the campaign trail, what's giving me hope is the fact joe biden and senator harris and jill biden will travel more in person, getting out to minnesota, wisconsin and michigan over the next week. that gives me hope that we are getting back to some normal election. i'm excited about that. >> elise, tell me what gives you home. do you want to get back on campaign trail? >> you know, let's leave the campaign trail for a minute. i was so inspired by the life and legacy of black panther star chadwick boseman. when i discovered that in the aftermath of his incredible life that he didn't share his cancer diagnosis but he was spending

his time to go visit young children who had cancer diagnosis, it just really was so incredibly moving to me, just the humility and the humanity that he managed to fit into his 43 years. you look at so many terrible things that are going on in the world. it's not nice to be reminded that there are people like chadwick who seek to inspire others and to raise the hopes and spirits of others. >> i have to share with you as a mother of someone who has a brown son and how he loves superheroes and how seeing boseman on "black panther" spoke to him. having that conversation was a difficult one. i'm trying to navigate covid for my son. one of his superheroes, having the conversation of how he passed. it speaks to this idea of how

culture matters. that we have to see ourselves in order to imagine ourselves in extraordinary places. i think to your point, he did that for so many people. not just in the united states but worldwide. that's powerful. i think that's why representation matters deeply. with that, i want to ask you, what gives you hope? we hear people now adopting pandemic puppies. what gives you hope, besides the pandemic puppies, perhaps? >> i'm going to blur my jobs and my networks a little bit. we have a show called 60 in six that's a version of 60 minutes. wes lowry interviewed justin blake, who is jacob blake's uncle. i want to play the clip real quick. >> in this tragic situation, our family, the entire family right now is on top of the world. you want to know why? we didn't see each other at a funeral for little jake.

jake is still alive. jake is going to live. >> i see that interview. speak of what that means that you what a that means that you have america, all of a sudden, once again, value beg galvanizing around an american that was hurt around and institution. >> one, i think that was wes lowry doing that interview, but two, i keep, i watched this piece multiple times. i heard what jacob blake's uncle had to say and i'm just struck by this idea that he was shot in the back seven time, even though this is an incredibly painful time for this country, the people, his family has found some hope in the fact that he is live, he will be able to see his family members and that they are going to continue to fight for him and fight for justice and if his uncle, if his family, can find some hope in this terrible

situation, then i can be grateful about my life and my world and think about like how i can improve it. so that is really set with me today. >> i have to say the conversati conversations that we're having right now as often time, we are lost in the pan a pan, pandemic, a great recession, job loss, and a looming civil unrest that we haven't seen since the 1960s, but what you're each speaking to is this idea of normalcy, of people coming in and becoming superheroes in the face of adversity and a country that's coming together despite the issues that we're facing and so i have to say that what gives me hope is the attorney general james because i deeply believe that what she is doing is what public service really means. it's fighting truth, fighting power. not being, not doing it unapologetically, but more importantly, take a piece of this of what she said on npr.

>> the new york attorney general is going to have a grand jury investigation into daniel prince death. this is all the same time that she is not only doing that, but she's going after trump for his tax reforms. going after the nra. she's making sure that united states postal service is funded and more importantly, she deeply believes as a patririot that yo have to have law and order the right way tlau justice system that's impartial. so with that, i want to thank each of you for your time. i want to -- so apparently, i have to keep on going. this is live tv. my first time doing this round up. so what elgive yous hope beside the campaign trail? something fun. >> behind the scenes when the camera wasn't on me, i was like real time reacting to that clip

of wes lowery interviewing. i'm really excited to watch that because i think that the conversation has to get going. not just around what happened to jacob blake, but how those closest to them are reacting. i think we've seen a lot of -- trying weaponize what's going on in our country. characterizing it as civil unrest. there's a lot more complexity to how the family members are really pulling themselves together and thinking through the way forward. in this time, i'm sure we can all feel, be down on ourselves and look and be hopeless, but listening to the way they're pulling forward and fighting for justice. not law and order. you hear them talking about fight for justice. i think that's what important. reframing this idea from a law and order side to a fight for justice. >> elise, picking up on that, how do you, this idea that james is really taking it to the donald trump, to the system.

how does that address the importance of public servitude in this day and age when everybody questions our institutions? >> it shows that no one is unaccountable to the law and donald trump has got an free pass for decades with so many interestses that his family has operated. whether it's cheating customers at a casino or bankrupt, i think about four bankruptcies, or his shady business dealings in kazakhstan that were repo reportically a back fund of the iranian revolutionary guard. donald trump has really been able to evade accountability his entire life and we saw it just this last year with the impeachment proceedings in congress. just how the senate would not step up to the plate and actually address the wrong doing of donald trump in using his political office for political gain and not to benefit the

national interest. and so, it's inspiring to me when you see an attorney general challenging the most powerful person in the country in se tay that no one is above the law. >> thank you all. that's our show. thanks so much for watching. up next attorney for the family of jacob blake will be talking to alex whit about his client's case. the interview is coming up at 1:00 p.m. eastern. thank you for joining me this weekend. it's been really a joy. it's been really a joy adventure. to reconnect and be together. and once we did that, we realized his greatest adventure is just beginning. (vo) welcome to the most adventurous outback ever. the all-new subaru outback. go where love takes you.

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good day from msnbc world headquarters here in new york. welcome, everyone. new fallout. the military fire storm surrounding the president raging today. both detractors and defenders

taking hard lines on the accusation trump called injured and dead soldiers losers. >> there's no question that we have seen an unacceptable incident regenerations of unarmed black men being killed. >> we have classic voter suppression. joe and i are going to work hard to earn every vote. >> a fresh take. kamala harris on a new interview on policing, the president's skrooen timeline and systemic racism with the election 58 days away. the fixer, his new book drops tuesday, but already, bombshell allegations are going through the white house. turmoil in rochester, but there's one move the state is making that could calm matters. new reporting that contradicts what donald trump and william barr have been saying about russia and china