voters. we're just three weeks away from the first debate. both campaigns focusing on six critical states in the race to 270 electoral votes. today, president trump traveling to two battlegrounds, florida and north carolina. tomorrow, joe biden heads to michigan after spending labor day campaigning in pennsylvania. and both vice presidential contenders were in wisconsin monday. we expect senator harris to travel down to florida later this week. the coronavirus pandemic looming over every action by both campaigns, and the daily lives, of course, of every single american. there are now more than 190,000 covid-related deaths in the country. this hour we'll bring you an update on dozens of wildfires burning 100,000 acres in california were crews continue to rescue residents and campers, trying to save essential structures. and we'll speak to lester holt in just a few moments on his exclusive interview with convicted former trump fixer michael cohen and the stunning new revelations, including what

cohen says about racism and mr. trump. we'll begin with steve kornacki at the big board, you're going to be a busy guy in the next two months, steve. let's talk about all of that, the battleground states, and the somewhat confusing difference between national polls and battleground state polls which is what we're focusing on, polls of likely voters. >> yeah, and i think that's a key point to keep in mind as we get into the home stretch of the campaign. what you're looking at right here, this is the national polling average right now. you take all the different national polls that are out there, you average them together, and what you've got is a joe biden lead of basically seven points nationally, a seven-point advantage for biden nationally. keep in mind, as we saw in 2016, hillary clinton won the popular vote in 2016 by two points, and lost in the electoral college. what that means was that in 2016, the key states that decided the election were closer than the national race.

all indications are that trend has continued in 2020. so when you see the national average right now and as you see it over the next several weeks, keep in mind that the battleground states that are going to decide the election are probably a notch or two closer. so that's what we have here, a seven-point lead on average for biden nationally. but when you look at the key battleground states, here you go, six of them, the big six right here, three, four, five, two, five, one, these are all biden leads right now on average, and they are all closer than, they are inside of that seven-point national average to varying degrees here. all six of these states were trump states in 2016. all of them are biden leads right now. but also those are biden leads, those are small, narrow biden leads, very narrow in some cases. so i think if you see that national number tighten, if it moves from seven to six to five to four, somewhere in that range, you can also expect that you're going to be seeing

movement in these numbers at the statewide level, in these battleground states. and it won't take much movement there for trump to be in position to start winning these states. he's down right now, i think. he's not that far off. and keep in mind, there's these three in the midwest, michigan where pennsylvania, wisconsin. trump flipped them, first republican to do it in 30 years, all by less than a point in 2016. one other dynamic to keep in mind here, this is interesting. biden leading by seven points nationally, as we say. but when you ask voters not what do you want to win the election but who do you think will win the election, check this out, that's where trump actually leads right now. more people in the most recent poll, this is the suffolk/"usa today", say they think trump will win over biden even though biden leads nationally. at this point in 2016, the

national horse race was closer. clinton led by three. but when you asked who do you think will win, clinton led by 25 points. so the expectations game has changed dramatically in four years, andrea. >> and is there any way to drill down on that? is it democrats nervous about conventional wisdom, having been so wrong in 2016 in their expectations? is it fear of votes being suppressed, stolen, people not going because of pandemic, any way to figure out what the divide is on the internals there? >> yeah, you can take a look here, we'll break it down by party. this is just how everybody is voting, democrats overwhelmingly say they're voting biden, republicans overwhelmingly trump, independents, biden leads trump by six points. this is who folks say they're going to vote for. now when you ask those same folks who do you think is going to win the election, that's the single biggest difference. democrats still say by a 65-point margin they think biden will win the election but that

number is a lot smaller than how they're actually voting. the biggest disconnect is among democrats, but you see it to some extent here among every group. >> it's an interesting year to say the least. thank you very much, steve, we're so lucky we have you. >> thank you. joining me to talk about the candidates, their campaigns, what their plans are, nbc correspondent mike memoli covering the biden campaign, and ""the washington post's" phillip rucker covering the white house. "the atlantic"'s jeff goldberg has been hammering away at the president with his story about how president trump has spoken

about soldiers. the president and the rnc is using every advantage of incumbency beyond what's ever been done before. >> that's right, andrea, and we saw the president at his news conference yesterday, really more of an airing of personal grievances and frustrations with the media, with perceived opponents. we've seen this over and over again in his presidency. it speaks to perhaps his anxiety about being behind in these polls. perhaps it has to do, that anxiety, with a cash problem. "the new york times" had some explosive reporting out today about just how the trump campaign had burned through that billion-dollar war chest advantage he had over biden. but we're seeing the president out on the road. he's heading down to florida right now. she's going to be doing an official event, talking about the environment, and then of course doing more of a campaign-style rally in north carolina this evening. he's got rallies and campaign events throughout the week. he's really trying to amp up his

presence on the campaign trail. >> reporter: and at that news conference yesterday, when he went after joe biden and kamala harris using the white house grounds to do political attacks, even that is so unusual. mike memoli, i have to say, watching you closely and all the coverage yesterday, i was so surprised at the joe biden campaign. it's labor day, he's usually at a parade in pittsburgh, as you know better than anyone because you're keeping up with him, running along the sidelines, and they couldn't figure out a way virtually to do something more connected than what they did with the afl-cio yesterday? >> yeah, andrea, i think both last week and this week we're getting a picture of what the campaign looks like for joe biden. that was three days of public events and the rest of the week carried by surrogates and also

virtu virtual campaigning. yesterday we saw him with union members and veterans and later a virtual conversation with union members across the country. andrea, it certainly lacks dynamism, the energy of campaigns you and i have covered in the past. but the biden campaign says, listen, the number one issue, voters say, in this election is the coronavirus. and biden has a significant advantage among those voters. and they say it's exactly because of what we saw yesterday, is biden modelling responsible behavior, socially distant with those veterans and union workers in the backyard, virtual conversation elsewhere. we'll see him in michigan tomorrow, also we expect to be focusing on the economy, another issue they think they've made up significant ground on the president on. and that's really i think a window into that strategy. they think rather than holding the kind of super spreader events we've seen with the president's campaign, flying

into an airplane hangar, a lot of folks want to see more. andrea, when i go to cover these events, obviously we're outside, we're not able to be inside most of the time. the campaign isn't even advertising the locations of these events. but what's been happening is crowds have been building nonetheless. yesterday in harrisburg there were several dozen people, both pro-trump and pro-biden, out on the street. biden has been reluctant to even come out and wave at the crowds because they don't want to be seen as encouraging the same kind of public gatherings that health officials say shouldn't be happening with the pandemic this year. >> i get that totally, and that's all the criticism we. the republican national convention, the white house had the lack of any kind of social distancing, the lack of masks, tulsa, it goes without saying.

i'm just saying there's some sort of happy medium, and as effective as they think the virtu virtu virtual campaigning is. they did put out a video, let's see that. >> the main thing to know about joe is that joe has never lost his sense of why we do this. the people in delaware that he represented, the folks on the amtrak train he met each and every day, he is constantly aware that that is why we do this and that everything that comes up, his focus is going to be how is that going to help those people. >> so, i mean, that's obviously their most effective weapon, mike memoli, is barack obama. you've got to figure that also

the week before the debate, you'll have joe biden in debate prep, something the president is not known to do. >> yeah, and you heard when i asked the vice president about how he's getting ready for the debate, that he's already begun his debate prep. of course he wants that disclaimer on the screen, fact checking in real time. we don't think we'll see that, but no, obviously, the most precious resource in a campaign at this point is a candidate's time. we've already gotten the word that we're not going to see the former vice president today, his wife has some events. there's no doubt, andrea, once we get the results in november, there will be a lot of after-action quarterbacking, back seat driving, whatever term you want to use for the strategy we've seen from the biden campaign. there's one area, though, that we know that they have that advantage, and you just talked about it with phil, and that is fundraising. the biden campaign is putting that money to good use, with

another $40 million plus ad by this week, with a new 60-second commercial in which they ask the question, we've had a president who has brought out the worst in the country, isn't it time to have a president who brings out the best, that bringing out what we haven't seen on the ground. >> phil, we know the president spoke on the tarmac on andrews and that tape is being queued up, we'll have it momentarily. he addresses the story in "the new york times" which is troubling for their campaign, that they've blown through a whole lot of money. there's a quote from brad parscale, the ousted or demoted campaign leader, saying he didn't spend a dime without profile by, quote, the family, and we know that means children and son-in-law. so there's a lot there that the president apparently is also reacting to today, phil. >> yeah, that's right, andrea,

the "times" story documents really rampant spending in all areas of the campaign including, by the way, a personal car and driver for brad parscale when he was the campaign manager. you've covered a lot of campaigns over the years. i don't think we've ever seen a campaign manager who has had his own car and driver. so just an example of the kind of spending that this operation was doing as trump was raising so much money, you know, over the last couple of years. and according to the reporters who were on the tarmac with the president, he did dangle the possibility just now that he would perhaps contribute some of his own money to the 2020 campaign in the home stretch here if he thinks it's necessary to win. remember, he funded a lot of the 2016 campaign with his own money, but he has not done so so far in 2020. he is now saying he might have to do so if he thinks it's necessary. >> and of course they want him

to be talking about the economy, which is the one area where, in contrast to the pandemic, where still in national polls they see people see his leadership as being stronger than joe biden's. that puts a lot of pressure on the biden campaign, mike memoli, to fact check him, when he says it's been the greatest economy and he inherited a terrible economy, of course he inherited a very strong economy from barack obama and joe biden, who led the recovery from the greatest recession ever. >> absolutely, andrea, and an interesting snapshot of how the economic argument may play out. you saw the president at the white house talk about the records being shattered still on wall street but the former vice president saying, he's focused on working class, middle class voters, you know, the kinds of voters in lackawanna county and lucern county and even in lancaster county which president trump won by double digits but

where the biden campaign clearly thinks they can make up some ground. they'll continue to press the economic argument because they feel they've made some progress on it, because they think the president has some vulnerabilities, and of course tying it to the pandemic as well. >> we'll have that tape, stay with us as we watch the president at andrews. >> we're going to florida, we're going to north carolina, we're doing a double stop. we're doing some triples along the way. right now we're sort of in the earlier stages. the poll numbers you saw are very good, they're really getting good despite all the disinformation exchangdis information campaigns the democrats run. i'll see you during the trip. any questions? >> reporter: are you going to contribute to your campaign? >> if i have to, i would. we've spent more money up front

because of the pandemic and because of the democrats' disinformation. we've done a great job with covid, a great job with the china virus, a great job. whether it's ventilators or vaccines which you'll be seeing very soon or therapeutics, we've done a great job. the press was, uh, fake. and we have to spend a lot of money. no, if we did need, we don't, because we have much more money than last time going into the last two months, i think double and triple. but if we needed any more i would put it up personally, like we did in the primaries last time, in the 2016 primaries i put up a lot of money. if i have to, i'll do it here but we don't have to because we have double and maybe even triple what we had, uh, a number of years ago, four years ago. >> reporter: how much are you talking about putting into your campaign? >> whatever it takes. we have to win. this is the most important election in the history of our

country. we have a radical left group. there's something wrong with them, there really is, something wrong with them, and joe doesn't have the strength, he doesn't have the mental capability to control these people, and you take a look at what's going on, and i looked at pittsburgh, i looked at rochester, i looked at l.a. last night, i looked at these democrat-run cities, you look at portland every night, they don't have the strength, they don't have the -- the -- i don't think the democrats have the courage to control these people. they're afraid to even talk about law and order. they can't issue the words "law and order." all we want is law and order. and i just put out something, the suburbs are coming big to us because the suburbs are next. if you elected this guy, the suburbs would be overwhelmed with violence and crime. so that's where we are. this is the most important election in the history of our country. so that's it. we'll see you in florida. thank you very much. >> the president, again, leaving

andrews for florida again with one of his law and order messages, punctuating that by saying that the suburbs are going to go for him and claiming falsely that the democrats are leftists and can't control the people in the streets. this is more of an issue that he thinks is working for him, but the campaign itself has been thinking that the economy and not this law and order issue is what will work for him. and now we go on to michael cohen, another issue for the president to deal with. michael cohen, the former fixer and lawyer who was convicted. the president says he is full of regrets for the 12 years as trump's lawyer and self-described fixer. right now lester holt is joining us with his exclusive reporting, his first reporting of his interview with michael cohen. lester, thanks so much for being

with us, congratulations on the interview. what did you learn when speak to go michael cohen? a lot of people have been looking to speak to him. >> we've learned a lot, the man who at one time said he would take a bullet for donald trump, no longer. he describes himself as more of a fixer and as someone who would do anything on behalf of his boss donald trump, a man he now appears to be trying to take down. >> i describe mr. trump as a cult leader. and i was in this cult. while i was in the cult, i was really refusing to acknowledge that the actions that i was performing for my boss were morally wrong. >> reporter: in his memoir "disloyal," michael cohen says he wants others to see the donald trump he knew. >> you called trump a racist. were you witness to any moments that you thought he was exhibiting racism or used a racial slur? >> unfortunately one too many times. we had one where nelson mandela

passed away, and i talked about this in the book, he asked me if i knew of any country run by a black that's not an "s" hole. i said, how about america? at which he gave me the proverbial "f" you. >> reporter: michael cohen says he bought the silence of stormy daniels to protect mr. trump. >> i would lie to melania trump for the benefit of my boss, mr. trump. >> you would tell her nothing happened? >> i would tell her nothing happened, that the whole story is not accurate, and i have a document from the individual stating that it didn't happen. but the one thing i can tell you about our first lady, melania trump, is that she knew i was lying the whole time but she had enough class not to call me out on it.

>> reporter: the white house has blasted cohen's book as fan fiction, saying cohen readily admits to lying routinely and expects people to believe him now so he can make money from book sales. it's unfortunate that the media is exploiting this sad and desperate man to attack president trump. >> i have made my mistakes and i have owned them publicly. and i cannot make anybody believe me. >> reporter: cohen believes some of mr. trump's behavior could one day land him in prison. >> have you seen donald trump's tax returns? >> only from afar, laid out on a table in the conference room. >> reporter: manhattan's district attorney is currently before a federal appeals court trying to get president trump's tax returns as it examines, among other things, whether bank or tax fraud occurred. >> you said he would have cfo allen weisselberg and me concoct the highest possible number inflating the valuation of the buildings and golf courses by using the absolute, most oefg

comparab optimistic comparable properties. >> mr. trump wanted to be higher in the forbes 500 list. and he would just come up with a number. he said, i'm worth $8 billion, i'm worth $10 billion, and our job was then to take the assets and figure how are you going to back up that $10 billion that he wants to be. >> reporter: new york federal prosecutors acknowledge cohen did provide information to law enforcement including the special counsel's office. but also noted that cohen's description of those efforts is overstated in some respects and incomplete in others. >> so does that diminish your credibility, the fact that even prosecutors weren't sure they got the full thing? >> yeah, i'm not so sure it diminishes anything considering i believe about 18 investigations were opened based upon the information that i provided including the need for his tax returns. >> reporter: cohen knows readers will question the validity of many of his claims. but he wants us to believe this.

>> the donald trump will do anything and everything within which to win. and i believe that includes manipulating the ballots. i believe he would even go so far as to start a war in order to prevent himself from being removed from office. >> i asked mr. cohen whether he is a witness in any current investigation. he says he's not allowed to answer that question. he does tell me, though, he entered the guilty plea only because he says prosecutors were threatening to indict his wife and he had just a few days to make the decision whether to accept that. >> fascinating, fascinating interview. lester, does he have any proof to back up all his claims? >> he has some. a lot of this, as he describes it, it's a memoir, it's based on his memory, and woven in here are portions of some emails and photographs that support at least some of the timelines, some of the events that he talks

about in the book. but many of the claims, no, there's no absolute proof and they're based on his memory and recollection. >> thank you so much, thanks for taking time for us today, lester, we really appreciate that. >> of course. >> you can see more of lester's exclusive interview with michael cohen tonight on "nbc nightly news." and later, tune in to "the rachel maddow show" as michael cohen sits down with rachel. today marks the start of school for millions of america's kids. what happens when the governor and school district are at odds over in-person learning? first, harrowing rescues by the california national guard. dozens of people trapped by deadly wildfires. you're watching "andrea mitchell reports." stay with us. this is msnbc. ith us this is msnbc. ♪

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just minutes to spare. >> i've never seen the fires this bad. we are completely surrounded by fires. she said, you guys have to leave now. it felt like a movie. it was a living nightmare. >> more than 25 major wildfires are currently burning. flames are spreading faster than firefighters can imagine. the governor declared a state of emergency in the five hardest-hit counties. the blaze is forcing evacuations and leaving entire towns and neighborhoods destroyed. in san bernardino county, the monster el dorado fire continues to burn. officials say it was sparked by a device used in a gender reveal party, if you can believe it. steve, how are the firefighters faring and what about the rescues of these campers? >> reporter: yeah, you know, the firefighters here, specifically in this fire, are facing what firefighters across the state are, high wind, high

temperatures, dry brush, incredibly steep terrain. thankfully here they have a foothold on fires burning in this area because there's been a break in the weather overnight. they're doing better now than they were 12 hours ago. but still, the fire has spread. it was 7,000 acres yesterday, it's now more than 10,500 acres today. they have about 16% containment on this fire specifically. however, when you look across the state, you've got nearly 30 major fires burning across the entire state of california. more than 2 million acres have scorched so far this year. that is a record. and moving to that creek fire, the one where there are rescues and ongoing rescue operations as we speak this morning, the national guard, along with cal fire, able to get a handle on pulling some of the campers that were trapped in there out. but it is still ongoing. it is still an operation that is surrounded essentially by a wall of flames. so they're trying to figure out the best way to get in there and get more people out.

we spoke to a member of the national guard about their operation and how it's going. listen to this. >> the sheriff's department has been prioritizing the evacuees and providing us a list. in addition that, we're fully integrated with cal fire as part of an interagency operating agreement. and i think everybody is doing the best that they can to ensure that the folks that need evacuation first are the ones that we attend to first. >> reporter: again, that is the creek fire in central valley, california. more than 145,000 acres. it's burned at least 60 structures. that fire still raging out of control, zero percent containment. you mentioned the device used in the gender reveal that's scorched 10,000 acres. we know the people responsible for that have been in touch with authorities, they are cooperating with the investigation. we haven't heard anything about fines or charges yet.

a lot of people on the ground here think that's coming, based upon how much devastate and damage has been wrought. there is a lot here and really across the state of california as these poor conditions continue on into the week, with even more heavy wind expected to move in tonight, andrea. back to you. >> and steve, if you know, in the creek fire area, are there still campers who are trapped there? because i've never seen night helicopter rescues like what the california national guard were performing for the last two days, really. >> reporter: we definitely know there are still campers trapped in there. some, we know, refused air support to be lifted out of there. so i think there is some discussion on how best to get them out. but with how much flame and smoke is in that forest as we speak, i think they're grooft the best way to rying to figure out the best way to do that. based on the successful

operations they had overnight, i think they'll be successful. it's a matter of what do you let burn, how do you get in, how do you get out, and how do you do it safely as you're trying to pull people out of there. an incredibly, extraordinarily difficult rescue operation inside that forest, andrea. >> just based on the pictures around you and where you're standing, air quality is also a big continuing issue for a lot of people. thank you so much, steve patterson, in the fire zone. and the number of positive coronavirus cases in the u.s. is now more than 6.3 million, and 190,000 people have died. the rising cases even before an anticipated surge in the weeks to come after the labor day holiday weekend. in the race for a vaccine, nine major pharmaceutical are issuing a public pledge not to rush out a vaccine until it's proved safe and effective. new data from a nbc/surveymonkey tracking poll shows fatigue is

setting in as more people are beginning to let their guard down. an increasing number of people, although not a majority, are seeing covid as an economic problem, not a health crisis. and today is the first day of school in iowa. despite orders by republican governor kim reynolds, that students return to the classroom, des moines is ignoring that order and starting classes virtually today. that's where we find nbc's vaughn hillyard in des moines. what is the school district doing to fight the governor's order? >> reporter: governor kim reynolds, a republican here in the state, ordered that at least 50% of classes must be held in person. but that's when the des moines public schools board is fighting back, filing a lawsuit against the state, and saying today, this tuesday, on the first day of school, their kids are not showing up to campus. so there's no little jaspers, little nates, or little abbys here today, instead they're

setting up virtually. principal keisha barnes here said, look, this is predominantly black and brown community here and they're not going to subject students, students' family members, and faculty to greater covid spread. iowa is now a hotspot, with the third highest rate in the country, just behind south dakota and north dakota. take a listen to part of our conversation with keisha barnes, the principal here, as to why this school district is pushing back. >> my message to governor kim reynolds is, i believe that we have local control over what is best for our communities. we are entrusted every day, she entrusts us every day to make sure that students are safe and learning and we would like for that to continue. >> reporter: andrea, a judge could make a ruling as soon as today. in the meanwhile, these teachers, the principal, there's

been a couple of situations in which the school has been trying to help with mi-fi and computer issues so kids are able to do schooling virtually here. >> thank you so much, vaughn hillyard, back in iowa. joining me now, dr. manuel ramirez, former acting director for the office of pandemic and emergency threats at the department of health and human services. dr. ramirez, good to see you again. first of all, this extraordinary move on vaccines by nine major pharma companies, joining forces, saying they're going to pledge to only submit for emergency authorization when they have the evidence of safety and efficacy. that's clearly a response to the fda's staff and some of the comments from the president. is this going to restore confidence in the vaccine? >> well, i think it remains to be seen, andrea. you know, what these vaccine

companies have said, to your point, is they're not going to release a vaccine until the data is in place showing that it's safe. one of the things that came out over the weekend that i think was a good point, though, is that every experimental protocol that we run has a data monitoring and safety board that can stop a trial early if the data looks either like there are too many adverse events or if it looks like a vaccine is really effective and it would be unethical to continue the trial. so i think that the statement that the pharmaceutical companies put out leaves a little bit of wiggle room. i don't think it says they'll continue the trials until the end of phase iii. what it says is they'll continue until they have data that the vaccine may work with a reasonable amount of safety which would allow them to move it to market under an emergency authorization. >> so they're saying they're not going to even ask for the emergency authorization but what you're pointing out is they can point to their own boards and say we've proved it to our satisfaction, therefore they are proceeding. what about the decline in

confidence in the government public health officials, with the exception of dr. fauci, dr. birx, maybe, but when we see what the cdc and the fda have done, kacaving in and flipping convalescent plasma and other issues, testing. >> i think it speaks to a couple of issues, andrea. the first is what people can clearly see with their own eyes, there are a number of things in this response that have not gone well, whether we're talking about the rollout of testing, or the reopening early after memorial day that led to the second surge, or talking about fda approvals of therapies. people understand it has not gone well and there is some distrust there. the other thing is this increasing fragmentation and tribalism in this society. if you're a republican, you feel like the response has gone one one and if you're a democrat, you feel like the response has gone another. what we're facing as public health professionals is

restoring confidence in the idea that science is driving the decisions. whether you're president trump trying to link a vaccine approval date to a specific election day or vice presidential candidate kamala harris saying she's not going to take a vaccine that's promoted by donald trump. that's very dangerous to scientists trying to convince people that a vaccine is safe and effective. >> polls show there is fatigue setting in, 54% of adults say it's now a bigger concern that businesses are reopening too quickly compared to 42% concerned about reopening too slowly. that's a narrow majority. back in early july, 63% saw businesses reopening too quickly as a bigger concern compared to 33%, two to one back then. so there's definitely a narrowing of that gap. and people are feeling the effects of the economy.

and it is profoundly impactful to many people, more than the health concerns. >> well, you're right, andrea. i think the message that we tried to convey early in the pandemic is that pandemics are unfortunately marathon events that can last 18 to 24 months. now i think what people are realizing is we're not going to swim out of this early. people's livelihoods have been threatened and there is increasing concern that that is the bigger problem here. the other issue is that the pandemic has become increasingly focused and centralized in black and brown communities and folks of lower socioeconomic status. so we're seeing this fragmentation of opinion about the way it affects them and it's played out in the groups of people being hospitalized and the mortality rates in those different groups. >> and the bottom line, when

this comes to vaccines, is more and more people, from what you referred to earlier, from what both you heard from the vice presidential nominee kamala harris as well as the president, certainly most importantly from the president, more and more people are saying, i wouldn't take it even if, you know, we're told it's safe. really concerning. >> yeah, you know -- >> we'll have to leave it there, thanks. >> go ahead, finish your thought, i'm sorry. >> you know, i was just going to say, you know, i think that's right. that is the big struggle we're going to face. i think it's going to take a vaccine to really get us out of this pandemic and the work is ahead of us to try to convince people that this is a safe and effective vaccine. >> thanks for being with us, we really appreciate it, dr. ramirez. meanwhile, kids are back in school and most communities, in-person or online. parents are looking for advice and guidance and a helping hand. the "today" show's jenna bush

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to cast their ballots by mail. other countries around the world have already held elections since the pandemic and worked around the challenges. nbc news chief foreign correspondent richard engel takes us around the globe to see how they pulled it off. >> reporter: there have been more than 80 elections already during the pandemic. some successful, others not. in sri lanka, voters used their own pens or disinfected ones. lots of hand-cleaning. in north macedonia, they staggering the vote with ill and elderly voting a day earlier. voters in quarantine had ballots brought to them. in france, voting hours were extended, and here the ill or vulnerable could nominate someone else to vote for them. in poland, they tried partial voting by mail. it was not a big success. voters complained they had insufficient time to request ballots and thousands of votes from poles living outside the country reportedly went missing.

in south korea, organization paid off. early voting meant people had three days to go to the polls. >> people thought it was a fair election, there was credibility in the system? >> yes. turnout was actually the highest in 28 years. >> because people had more time to do it? >> if you were concerned about covid, you could go early, you could, you know, go on a day when there wasn't a whole lot of people. >> reporter: temperature checks everywhere. anyone with 99.5 sent to an excluded voting area. limited mail-in voting was allowed, no disputed result. the lesson for americans? >> if it takes several days to learn who won the election, that's not an indication of a failing, it's just a consequence of an election being conducted in unusual circumstances. >> reporter: dozens of countries have shown that election during covid can be free and fair with enough flexibility and confidence in the process. >> nbc news chief foreign

correspondent richard engel joins me now. it's a great tour of the world, and seeing how other people can do it, for the most part. poland had problems with mail-in ballots, but for the most part. what lessons can we draw from that? >> reporter: i looked at different experiences around the world, over 80 elections. you can only get so much into a package like that. but if you look at the sri lankan example, they held a mock election. they were so concerned that this wasn't going to go smoothly, that they weren't going to get it done safely, that seven weeks before the vote, they had a phony vote just to test the systems. so with enough will, with enough dedication to make it safe, it is possible. in south korea, which was truly a positive example, they got 66% turnout, the highest they've had in a long time. and this was the first time they

experimented with early voting. and the way they did it there is they gave people two days 0 vote, in addition to the election day. and then they staggered them a little bit to make sure they would not have people rushing and clustering up at the voting stations. in france, they allowed proxy, voting by proxy. you could nominate someone to vote for you, or in france and in north macedonia, you could actually request that a ballot be delivered at your door by a police officer or a voting official. so lots of different approaches. generally successful. the poland example is certainly a note of caution. what they did there is they allowed mail-in voting. the absentee votes were problematic, and there was a lot of accusation that the ruling party was also using the media to try to sway the vote, to try to discourage people from coming out to vote. it went to the supreme court and the incumbent stayed in power by

a razor thin margin. i think the lesson is flexibility, transparency. in south korea there were public service announcements telling people how to vote, telling them exactly exactly what the precautions were put in place. and as long as there's enough confidence in the system, enough transparency and people get it and know what they're supposed to do, it certainly can work. >> if you have national leadership and if you have people sending the right messages, of course, a big if. thank you very much. richard engel, taking us around the world on voting around the world. here at home, millions of families across america preparing to go back to school. for students, teachers and parents, it's a stressful time. many of them going back today with serious concerns about safety for those who do go back to a classroom. the questions about the efficacy and practicality of virtual classes for students and their families who are staying home. joining me now, jenna bush hager, former first daughter,

first granddaughter, co-host of the fourth hour of the "today" show. your new book is out today. "everything beautiful in its time: seasons of love and loss." >> thank you. >> let's talk to you about what you've learned. congratulations on the book. great to see you. but what have you learned with your toddlers, 5 and 7 and then the baby. but for your two little girls, what is going back to school virtually all about? what are the concerns that mila has expressed to you? >> well, you know, we were like everybody. our schools closed. and we were together, home schooling. really, they were virtually learning, and we were helping them as much as we can. and they're little girls. so they're so young that they needed the assistance of parents to be there to help them even get on the computer, stay on the computer. and i think, you know, all over the country going back to school

looks really different but i know as a mother and as a former teacher, i think we're appreciating teachers now more than ever. >> and for so many of these parents, you include, working from home, while dealing with toddlers who were coping with trying to be online is a real challenge. kids are -- they like to run, play, they're interacting with their other children. and now they are in some cases that i'm hearing about from here, five hours a day for some of these kids with very short breaks. that's a lot. >> yeah, i think, you know, this is what the schools had to do to make sure our kids got the education that they needed. kids were on computers. but i also feel so lucky because it was a huge social -- there was a huge economic problem because my kids have computers. my kids had a parent who was -- could work from home but also go in and help.

there was a lot of kids that didn't have the access to internet or the technology that they need to keep up. and i think, if anything, it shows us that, you know, our system needs some serious work because where we are born shouldn't predict the level of education we receive. and so that, you know, i just thought about those kids who may not have the technology that they needed. >> in your book, you talk about also love and loss in the time of covid. you've lost so many people. you lost your father-in-law this summer. you can't commemorate that loss and grieve the way you would want to. you had a small memorial service of family. but you also, of course, had lost three grandparents in just one year. and also, you know, your former -- your grandmother, maternal grandmother as well, of

course, as the grandparents we knew so well publicly. president bush and barbara bush. so how do you deal with loss to all the people who are losing family members in this terrible time? your way of doing it was through letter writing, which is a real bush family tradition. >> yeah, it is. it's something i definitely inherited from them. i wrote this book "everything beautiful in its time" in the 13 months that i lost my three remaining grandparents. and i wrote it, it started really as just letters to them. the night my grandma barbara died, i was alone. my husband was in texas, and i turned on the tv and i was listening to those talk about her life, you know, some of whom knew her, like you did, andrea and some who didn't, and i felt like i had to write her a letter. it was like this almost urgent call just so that i could get my thoughts, my pain onto paper and

also just how much i loved her. and i think, you know, she taught me so much how to use my voice when to stand up for what i think is right, and then also, you know, how to grieve. how to grieve publicly because it was something i didn't really ever expect. of course, it's going to happen. it's going to happen again with my mom and my dad. but to just know these people for who they were to me and not necessarily the public perception. >> i was so touched by all that. just having, you know, covered your family, but not knowing them the way anybody close to them would. but i also wanted to ask you about what lessons books and letter writing can be for those who are grieving in the time of covid. >> yeah, well, i mean, i found it to be really therapeutic to write to those that will never read these letters. i wrote to my grandparents

multiple times in that year, and, you know, i so wish they were here now because i just -- one of the things they taught me is to be part of a discussion. we'd sit around that table and talk and debate and they loved to debate. they like to listen to other people's thoughts. and learn and grow. and i actually write a story about how my grandmother changed her mind on certain things, even in her 90s. and i just miss that. i miss being able to sit and debate and talk and be listened to and be heard. >> yeah, that anecdote about how she changed her mind about transgender people after a lunch conversation was really moving. thank you so much, jenna bush hager. great to see you. thanks for bringing all of your lessons to us. and as we complete this hour, i just want to say thanks to everyone who helped yesterday where i didn't have to -- i took

a day off yesterday, which was great. chuck todd is up next with a new hour of "mtp daily" which will start in just a moment. we also want to say stay with us online as well as we continue covering the campaigns as intensively as we do right here on msnbc. choose a new medicare health plan. but you may be able to choose a new plan right now. if you answer 'yes' to any of these questions: are you turning 65? do you have both medicare and medicaid? do you have medicare? and are you losing employer health coverage? if you answered yes just once, you may be able to choose a medicare health plan right now. call humana now at the number on your screen to see if you qualify. and we'll send you this helpful medicare decision guide. the call is free, and there's no obligation. humana has nearly 60 years of healthcare experience and offers

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