the panic all along the way. >> is there a way we can do something like that? like injection inside or almost a cleaning? . >> there's that old saying from the world war ii in great britain, keep calm, carry on. >> people that you've never heard of. people that are in the dark shadows. >> what does that mean? >> the president made it clear he wanted us to deploy the full resources of the federal government. >> it's supposed our stockpiles, not state stockpiles. >> it i couldn't be more proud of the strong, steady leadership that donald trump brought to this coronavirus pandemic from day one. >> now it's turning out it's not just old people, bob. but today and yesterday startling facts came out, it's not just old, older people. it's plenty of young people. >> willie, did you ever see "absence of malice"? >> of course. >> did you see the final

scene -- >> you didn't ask me. >> -- mr. brehmly turns to his assistant da and says, tell me what you're going to do after this job and he basically said, yes, you are, i'm your boss. when i look at mike pence and i see him lying through his teeth. a man who, i mean from everything i've noun, heknown, man of great faith and he let us know that through his entire public life that he's a man of great faith so who's to doubt that. i just wonder, though, when he's lying through his teeth for this president, i really do, i go what's mike pence going to do after this? where does he go to get his reputation back? because donald trump's been lying through his teeth about the coronavirus for well over a

year. and the -- my -- my favorite part of what pence said and what trump is saying, when they're drawing these churchill compa comparisons we're just like churchill keeping calm and carrying on. i said on this program since march that he should be like churchill. and, you know, i read -- we had eric on several times here and churchill would weep openly in public when he would go visit these sites during the london blitz. he would tell people how bad things were. but at the same time say, we're going to keep fighting. and all of these churchill -- the british people face with fortitude and buoyancy as long as they are convinced that those in charge of their affairs are not deceiving them or are not

dwelling in a fool's paradise. there's winston churchill. here's the quote i thought of when all of that -- i would love to say it but this is, of course, a children's show -- all of the b.s. they were spewing yesterday. i thought of winston churchill's speech to members of parliament, off the floor. and this, willie, is what winston churchill did to get support to stand up to nazi germany when so many people wanted to appease hitler and give in. give in. this is what winston churchill said. if this one island story of ours is to end at last, let it end

only when each one of us lies choking in his own blood upon the ground. nothing polly ann-ish about that. churchill let the british people know all along what was in front of them. when france collapsed, he said the battle of france is over. the battle for britain has begun. and willie, my god. again, in real time in march, in april and may. we kept telling this guy, just tell americans the truth. they can handle it. don't hide the truth. don't be responsible for the lies. he could not stop lying, willie. >> now we know from woodward's book that was a strategy. that he wanted to downplay this because he believed it helped. he didn't want to create a panic. but as you just laid out, i

could feel jon meacham's draw job yesterday when he heard the comparisons to winston churchill. churchill famously levelled with the boiritish people. of course, he was inspiring, but he levelled with the british people about how bad this was. we said in february, march and april, president trump would get credit for coming out and saying what was true, he didn't invent the virus, he didn't bring to the united states, but it's here and now we have to deal with it. if we deal with it, the shorter the run will be. if we don't, we're where we are, we're in the fall and dealing with it. those comparisons are gross and i don't know how mike pence does it. i don't know, do you take a shower after a tv appearance

like that? how do you look yourself in a mirror, look your family in the face. when one day after you know the president did not take it seriously, you come out and say he did. i don't know how as a person he does that. >> i don't know how he does that. >> it's difficult to watch the writings of people i respected for most of my life who are actually apologizing for donald trump committing one of the most egregious acts any american president has ever committed. no, "wall street journal" editorial page, the worst example of anti-anti-trumpism trying to actually bring nancy pelosi quotes from february and cuomo quotes as if that has anything to do with the president of the united states lying to the american people for months. and lying to them about

everything from disinfections, the rate of the infection, the infection going away magically, no need to worry about it. no need to worry about masks. look at his rally last night. that was the consequence of six months of lying. that was another super spreader event. >> those are people being hurt by the president. >> so the hostility towards doctors, the hostility towards medical advice, again we've been saying mika, for years, if this guy were a ceo -- >> he'd be gone. >> -- if he were the preacher of a church, if he were a high school football coach, if he were a middle school janitor, he'd be fired long ago. but if he were a doctor lying willfully to 320 million in the middle of the worst pandemic in

this country, and doing it in such a way that would increase the number of people killed, increase the levels of unemployment, he would have his medical license stripped and he would be sued into bankruptcy. >> yeah. >> but wait, he's president of the united states so we define dev yens that way. for the jackasses out there trying to forgive this guy, okay "wall street journal" editorial page he's not responsible for the death of 190,000 americans, no. there are studies that suggest maybe he is responsible for the deaths of maybe 100,000 people? what would you say he's responsible for "wall street journal" editorial people? maybe he killed 80,000 -- do you

think he only killed 80,000 senior citizens, 80,000 americans with his lies? no? do you think maybe he killed 30,000 people, "wall street journal" editorial page? what do you think history is going to say? they're not going to say what you say this morning in your op-ed page. maybe he only killed 4,000. you think that's probably pretty safe to say that him lying about this pandemic, him lying about this virus, him underplaying the risk so much so that people would run into stores, at walmart, and tear down displays that had masks on it, that people would run around saying this was a hoax -- he would! he called it a democratic hoax! a month after he told woodward it was really bad stuff.

what do you think, "wall street journal" editorial page? maybe 4,000 out of 190,000 people were killed because of donald trump's lies. do you think only 4,000 maybe -- oh, i don't know, as many americans who died on 9/11, is that fair to say? you know what? i think history is going to find out it was a hell of a lot more than 4,000 americans who were killed because donald trump's lies. and i just -- you know, i've been reading you, "wall street journal" editorial page my entire adult life. you gave me the crib notes when i was running for congress in 1994. i'd read your page and campaign. i didn't listen to what the nrcc sent me because i found you wrote it better, more concisely and gave me a better argument

for what conservativism was in 1994 but it sure isn't right now. but i'd be careful, and i say this as a long-time listener, first responder first-time caller, but i'd be careful because history in a couple of months is going to be harsh. remember when i started criticizing george w. bush, and conservatives said why are you a trader? why are you a liberal? you're a liberal, joe. how could you be criticizing george w. bush? and then you know what he did, you know what happened? he left office and you know what happened when he left office? all these conservatives started criticizing george w. bush. i got to say "wall street journal" you did criticize george w. bush along with me early for his massive spending. good on you.

you don't have that gene anymore, i'm not sure where it went. you can't say we criticized donald trump too. but come on, nancy pelosi went to chinatown in february. nancy pelosi is not president of the united states. nancy pelosi's team didn't know on new year's eve of 2020 what was coming from china. nancy pelosi's employees didn't know and start preparing on january 1st, 2020, about the pandemic, to warn the administration. nancy pelosi sure wasn't warned on like january 28th that this was the biggest crisis to face donald trump in his presidency. no, she wasn't. but you know who was? donald trump. i'm not sure what's in it for you continuing to apologize for this guy. but whether we're talking about

him denigrating the war dead -- you know we did it, by the way. maybe people out in personality cult, like maybe those people really think those quotes were just made, but you know they're not made up. you know he denigrated the war dead, "wall street journal" editorial page. you know he did. you know he called men and women who dedicated their entire lives and spent months and years away from their children in defense of this country -- you know he called them suckers. and things that i can't repeat on this show. but you'll defend him. you'll keep defending him.

where's marco rubio, by the way? on vacation? where's ted cruz, i haven't heard from them. do they agree with donald trump? where's corey gardner? does he agree with donald trump that men and women who dedicated their entire lives to this country, that run are in the united states military are suckers and another word that can't be repeated on this show? are they proud of trump for lying to the people of colorado, florida, texas, the united states of america? martha mcsally are you proud that president trump lied to the people of arizona? do you think that's cool? where are they? i've heard nothing from them. maybe i missed it. if i missed it, i apologize. mika -- >> hum? >> -- what do they think january is going to look like?

it is going to be a cold, long winter, and they're going to be spending the rest of their lives explaining why they remained silent in a time of moral crisis. >> yeah. >> when they found out that their president lied to the american people for six months, in the greatest crisis since 9/11. i don't get it. i'm just a simple country lawyer, but i don't get it. >> the same message applies to members of the media. you mentioned "wall street journal" but i have to say our colleagues in television news at different networks. i know some of you are hosts of opinion shows but i don't get what you're doing right now, because what i see is the lowest level of disinformation. i mean, when you're trying to blame this on the president not wanting people to panic and you're pushing that or you're

trying to blame this coronavirus misinformation on the part of the president on lindsey graham. when you're doing that, you're failing your responsibility to your viewers. you're failing your viewers. don't you have a responsibilities to ask some questions? just even one or two questions that might perhaps look into why he would do this? don't you have a responsibility to the people who watch you? to make sure their lives are kept as healthy as possible, don't you? you're failing them and i think like with the politicians, at some point in the case of the coronavirus, the truth will come out. and i don't know if they're still going to be watching you. they want credible hosts. they want credible newscasters. they want people who are going to do what needs to be done to get to the truth. it's just not happening in some

cases. along with joe, willie and me, we have associate editor for "the washington post" david ignatius. cofounder and ceo of the axios jim vandihile. president trump continued to defend himself against the revelation that he intentionally misled the people about the coronavirus. it's shown in audio excerpts from bob woodward's interview with the president. he knew how deadly the virus was yet decided to play it down in public. here is the president trying to explain himself yesterday first at the white house and then at a campaign rally where many were not wearing masks in michigan last night. >> why did you lie to the american people and why should we trust what you have to say now? >> that's a terrible question

and the phraseology. i didn't lie. what i said is we have to be calm, we can't be panicked. there has to be a calmness. you don't want me jumping up and down screaming there's going to be great death and really causing some very, very serious problems for the country. if bob woodward thought it was bad, then he should have immediately gone out publicly, not wait four months. he had that statement four months, five months, he had it for a long time. it was a series of taped interviews by telephone, not long ones, quick ones. i did it out of curiosity because i wanted to see if someone like that can write good, i don't think he can. >> this whack job that wrote the book said trump knew a little bit. they wanted me to scream people are dying, we're dying. no. no. we did it just the right way. >> but remember the president

says his goal is to prevent public panic. >> who wants to surrender our country to the violent left wing, mob. rioters, anarchist, and flag burners. flood your state with refugees. the left wants to get rid of me so they can come after you. confiscate your guns. shutdown auto production, delay the vaccine. you will have crime like you've never seen before. no city, town or suburb will be safe. >> i'm feeling calm. >> don't panic. >> yeah, way to tamp down the panic. you can run clips for about three years, because that's all he does when he's campaigning. all he does. you remember 2018 campaign, talking about the invasion of

the caravans coming into the united states. >> yep. >> and carrying diseases and then other people jumped in, hep ra si is coming, smallpox and whatever else. it's crazy. don't you love his stop me before i kill again defense? why didn't bob woodward tell people i was lying and killing them? why didn't he so stop me before i was responsible for the deaths of tens of thousands of americans? i'm not sure how that's going to work in focus groups. >> he's calling bob woodward a whack job. he called him yesterday the rapidly fading bob woodward. again, president trump picked up the phone 18 times and talked to bob woodward for nine hours. so he called whack job, as he calls him, bob woodward 18 times and gave up all of this on tape, on the record. he knew that. carol lee, let's talk about this response from the white house.

yesterday they went to church l churchill, president trump was being like churchill urging people to keep calm and carry on. the day before, some people saying it was lindsey graham's fall he set up the president, arranged for this. and then we had the press secretary who said the thing you just heard president trump say on tape in his own voice is not the thing you think you heard. he never tried to downplay it. he said on tape he liked to down play it. are they landing on churchill or something new today? >> it's anyone's guess where they go from here. but the overarching theme of the response is defense. the president is on defense. some of his allies are not happy with the way this is -- the way they're pushing back on this because it is so defensive and what you've seen in all the clips you played are two strands of it, one is the trump playbook, play number one try to

discredit the source, doing that aggressively with bob woodward. >> but he's the source. >> right. there are people -- >> trump is the source. >> -- that think that's a really bad idea because a, bob woodward is credible and b, you can't tell people they're not hearing what they're hearing. it's a go-to play from what we've seen from the president before. he called bob woodward a whack job. he called james comey a nut job. so we've seen this before. and then the president saying he was urging calm, which was undermined by the fact that the president not only in the rally but he's tweeting saying american children are going to be indoctrinated if joe biden is elected. so there are a number of people

around the president who want him to stop with this, try to push back in a less aggressive way. we heard the president said, there's a quote, i didn't lie. that's not something they like having out there from the president and not something we hear from the president that directly. so whether he can move the ball on this and try to pivot elsewhere remains to be seen. but they're very concerned because people are voting, we're close to the election and any other week like this, as we get closer is worse for him. one other thing, they're trying to pre-empt anything else coming out saying this is what the left wing media and their allies are going to try to do. there'll be another woodward book another atlantic story. it'll be every week. to try prime the president's supporters that they're trying

to buy in and it's not true. >> it is his voice, that's the problem at the end of the day, david ignatius. >> that's the problem. >> yep, it is his voice. and the argument, who are you going to believe, me or your lying ears, is not going to work. you can't put this on bob woodward. you can't put this on jeff bezos. you can't put this on "the washington post" or "the new york times," "morning joe," when it's his voice. and you -- i loved your column that went up online last night, in the paper this morning about woodward. he gave trump every chance. he gave him all the time in the world to explain himself. and, of course, it's just not going to turn out well when you are insulting our military

leaders when you are denigrating those who have served their entire life protecting or defending the united states of america when everything you said in public is the opposite of what you're saying privately to bob woodward. >> joe, i had a chance to read the book carefully over the last couple of days. and it really is almost a mo morality play, bob woodward does give trump the chance to explain himself. he's patient, he asks for justifications, he lets him spin out his version of what's happened. in the end, the weight of the president's own words is what destroys him. it's not that bob says anything or undercuts him, he lets him talk. and in the end we're left with this picture of a president who basically thinks that he,

through his own version of strength, not wearing a mask, going around the country pretending this terrible pandemic isn't going to happen, somehow is going to get the country through it. and that structure of lies collapses not because of anything bob woodward did but because the president said it flat out. it's s it's astonishing that bob found out the united states government found out early how serious this was. right at the beginning of january there was a clear understanding that the chinese were suppressing the truth, this was devastating. the president understood early on this could be passed through airborne droplets. it could go from human to human with great speed. he understood how dangerous it was. you realize reading the book if the public hadn't been so afraid of spooking the stock market or

whatever it was that led him to take the there's nothing going on here approach we might be in a very different situation. he won't own it now in his response, but he did try to say it to woodward. he thought, i'm being strong, i'm going to deny it, i've always played it down, thinking that was the right policy. but i've rarely seen a book in which the subject's own words are so devastating, which you can see the hubris of someone so clearly as in the pages of bob woodward's book. >> and it is impossible for people to attack political leaders for what they say in february when donald trump had the information and didn't share the information with the rest of the american people. in fact, he lied through his teeth repeatedly for six months

about the extent of this. and jim, this is not something that's going to quietly go away as john heileman pointed out yesterday. the way woodward's books are unveiled they'll put a group of quotes out early on, parts of the book, then he goes on "60 minutes" then he has the big reveal on "60 minutes" and that controls the news cycle for the next week. woodward has done this before. he knows how to control the news cycle and he has basically the 2020 version of the nixon tapes except there are a lot of deaths attached to these tapes. what do you think the impact is in some of these swing states? not with the hard core trump people. they're going to actually think the tapes are doctored like trump tried to say they were on

"access hollywood." but north carolina, for instance, they've been voting for a week, this information breaks on sunday. two weeks of early voting in north carolina is going to be shaped by this story and the story of donald trump attacking our war dead. >> if you look at -- there's not that many undecided voters left, might be say 5% of the population. when you look at the focus groups with those people, they're almost always saying i don't like donald trump, how he does the job, what he says, i don't trust him. but i'm really torn because i think i like republican policies better than liberal policies for those people it will matter. a lot of things for voters, they're confused, it's complex, there's two sides. but two things in the tape, you said it, it's on tape. two things on tape, it's 5 times more deadly than the flu and it

travels through the air. think of the people you know who are trump supporters and what are the two things they say to you over and over and over again. it's no different than the flu and i don't have to wear a mask. and he came out and said it's five times more deadly than the flu. we don't want to overreact but wear a msask. the numbers at the top of the show you were talking about are not hyperbole. you're right it's not going to move any hard core trump supporters they're locked in, love him, hate us. but for the 5% it's damning evidence. it's his words. go back to the jonathan swan interview he did for us with trump through woodward. it's not the fake media, it's trump in his words. people seeing him in full and being able to make the appraisal. is that what i want?

for 40% of people, that's what they want. for the rest i think that's where the tapes matter. i don't think there's any other massive revelations in the woodward book that will overwhelm this because this is so central, but it's not going away and the tapes aren't going away. why wouldn't you use those ads and keep replaying them on tv? they'll live forever. >> you know, it's -- mika, it's so fascinating what jim said. i've got friends who support donald trump, who have been saying from the beginning and they've been saying, even through late summer, it's -- joe, it's just like the flu. it's no worse than the flu. people die from the flu every year. donald trump said in late february or early february, whenever it was. this is -- this is five times worse than the flu. this is bad. this passes through the air, this is really bad stuff. this is dangerous.

he said that. he lied to his people. his people lied to their friends. not lies because they didn't know it was a lie. and then these falsehoods keep spreading. it's not just like the flu. if you don't believe us now, just listen to donald trump. >> yes, and also as jim said, people will make their own apprais appraisal. this isn't some remote thing they're maybe thinking about. this is impacting their lives, if it isn't killing them or killing a member of their family or a close friend, it's killing their lives. the life we used to know here in the united states of america. i pull up "the washington post," two articles come to the top, one that was incredibly moving, "the washington post" coronavirus job loss sends florida family into homelessness, they're living in their car. economic collapse has pushed families into orlando hotels. an incredible piece on a

17-year-old girl named rose who's working in a fast food joint and living in a hotel in orlando with no power and unsafe conditions. all pushed there because of the economic calamity that has come to their lives due to this pandemic. again, on trump's level you don't feel it. >> due to donald trump's denial from the pandemic. it was going to be bad. >> this is the appraisal they'll be making. >> as we said in march, talking directly to the president, mr. president, please, recognize that this is a health care crisis first and because it's a health care crisis, if you take care of that, you will take care of the economic crisis. and when you take care of the economic crisis, then you will take care of the political crisis that you're facing. we said that repeatedly on this program in march. he refused to move.

he tried -- willie, remember he tried to open up the -- i mean, he tried to push people to completely open up businesses by easter. was pushing to open up schools last spring. like it was crazy. he was having rallies, backing thousands and thousands of people together when telling them that it was no worse than the flu a month after he told bob woodward, yeah, this is a lot worse than the flu and it passes airborne and it's really, really dangerous. >> and weeks later the numbers shot up in those cities and people died. >> it's really hard. really hard to not connect those dots and i'm not sure how people can't draw that line from one to another to another. this is not about the left wing media or in my case

conservative -- a small government conservative. this is about just listening to donald trump and connecting the dots. it's not hard. >> we know he says he didn't want to create panic. we just played the clips of him inducing panic on other issues. there's a big space between running around with your hair on fire, telling everyone to go to the survival bunkers and to do what he did on tape, i wanted to play it down. you cannot, as president, say this is not happening let's open up by easter. we are going to talk a lot more about this. but as we go to break, a live look at lower manhattan. today marks 19 years since the attacks of september 11th. we'll have live coverage of today's ceremonies coming up.

we'll also be joined by former secretary of homeland security -- y former secretary of homeland security - entures. you hope the more you give the less they'll miss. but even if your teen was vaccinated against meningitis in the past... they may be missing vaccination for meningitis b. let's help protect them together. because missing menb vaccination could mean missing out on a whole lot more. ask your doctor if your teen is missing meningitis b vaccination. ask your doctor if your teen verizon knows how to build unlimited right. start with america's most awarded network. include the best in entertainment and offer plans to mix and match starting at $35. plus, get the samsung galaxy s20 5g uw on us when you buy any note20 5g. only at verizon. (peter walsh) people came and they met and they felt comfortable. it's what we did with coogan's. you felt safe and, if you were safe, you could be joyful. everybody has a coogan's. and almost half those small businesses, they could close if people don't do something.

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joining us now two-time pulitzer prize winning author for "new york times" michael schmidt. author of "donald trump the united states". michael, given these two books coming out at the same time, what lines up in woodward's book from the reporting that you've put on the table as well with your book? >> i think the remarkable thing that i found that clearly plays itself out with trump's interactions with woodward is the basic lack of understanding of how washington functions. whether it was early on with his presidency where he didn't understand that you couldn't do things without congress, you couldn't do things unilaterally, you needed congressional approval and you couldn't just go ahead and do it and then try to settle it in a lawsuit.

in the case of the mueller investigation he said to aides if it was closing in on him he would settle it, as if it was a civil case. and sort of this lack of understanding is shown with woodward as well. if he were to talk to woodward for as long as he did, he would be able to win him over somehow. that he would be able to explain himself to woodward. the president continuing to look for that admiration of whether it's, you know, looking for -- to try to win over "the new york times" or bob woodward that he thinks he can do that. and the remarkable thing is that in so many other areas, you know, he has failed to do that during his presidency. but this was an attempt. and it looks like it blew up right back in his face. >> michael in your excellent book you talk about some of the characters in the white house who have now left, casting themselves as guardians of the republic, trying to keep donald

trump from his worst impulses. do you see some of that in woodward's book, specifically around coronavirus? are there people -- robert o'brien comes to mind in that january conversation where he says this is the worst challenge you will face in office take it seriously, do you see people there in woodward's book trying to push back? >> i don't think we see it the same level we did in the first two years. the john kelly's and don mcghan's of the world i don't think should be completely absolved of the first two years because there's a lot of things that went on that didn't turn out great. but it does seem like they were able to stop the president, to contain the president in ways that the president -- that don't exist as much today. you know, would the president have made the call to the ukrainian president if john kelly and don mcghan were standing there? i think the president would have had more of a fight on his hands in that case. so you you sort of see how over

the past four years the president hollowed out those people. he has gotten rid of them and he is now more emboldened to try and do the things that he wants to do. the other thing about the interview with -- the interviews with woodward that's remarkable is that the president wanted to do the interview with robert mueller. he wanted to sit down, because he believed he could explain to mueller's team what, you know -- you know, what happened with russia and why he had done nothing wrong on obstruction. and he had to be stopped by the emmet floods of the world, the lawyers brought into the white house to stop this. and they were successful at doing that, and because mueller chose not to interview the president, that was a choice that mueller made, that choice was so significant, because there's no way that the president, with his relationship with the truth would have gotten

through an interview without creating questions about what he was saying, and that would have changed the direction of that investigation as well. but that was a choice that mueller made. they chose not to interview the president. so in the end we were lucky enough as a country to have bob woodward who waited around and had the patience, the patience that the mueller team didn't have, to talk to the president and to get those inner thoughts. and, you know, i think we're pretty lucky for bob woodward. >> it is -- it is hard not to look back at the moment when donald trump's lawyers finally convinced him not to talk to mueller. it's hard not to look back at that moment as a moment that actually may have saved donald trump's presidency. because we have seen, whether it's him talking to bob woodward or his nightly press conferences in the spring, that the more he speaks, the more he damages his own standing. you can look at jonathan swan's

axios interview. so historically i'm curious, michael, about when donald trump made his shift. and, you know, there are -- president bill clinton, for instance, the morning after the massive republican landslide in 1994, bill clinton made his shift and realized he needed to adjust or he was going to continue to lose the remaining two to six years of his presidency. he brought in dick morris. they started figuring out how to triangulate republicans in congress. george w. bush, though nobody talks about it too much these days made a similar shift in 2007. and condi rice started to have much more say along with george w. bush where the war in iraq was going. and things changed fairly significantly those last two

years. but donald trump seemed to shift in a different direction. and that is, he got rid of his most talented people. you look at the mattises and the tillersons and the kellys, and you look at the people he brought in early. and for the most part, the foreign policy community breathed a sigh of relief because he had professionals in there that they thought would stand up and say no to him. what was the moment in your research where you realize that donald trump made the decision, i don't want anybody around here that has a quality or the courage to stand up to me and say no, i can do this myself? >> i think that the sort of remarkable thing about the president's choices is that he

just becomes more and more emboldened and more determined to get rid of people even as he undermines himself. it's just an unusual phenomenon. he fires comey, the whole world reacts in washington as if this is like, you know, you can't go wt's his first instinct? his first instinct is to then try and fire the attorney general to ensure that he has more control over the direction of the russia investigation. and then he wants to fire mueller. so he just fired comey. he's this new president, been there for four months. testing out his firing power, clearly overshoots and creates a big problem and his instinct is to continue to do that. and in the process as i report in the book, don mcghan his white house counsel, who is stopping him from doing this,

trump becomes incredibly angry with and mcgahn starts to fall out of favor with the president, that's more significant because don mcghan is in charge of the umbilical cord between trump and his base, in charge of the judges, in charge of remaking the federal judiciary, the thing that allows the president's base to support him, even though he's behaving in ways they would not like. so his instinct is to get rid of that person and to try to ostresize don mcghan because he won't get rid of mueller. you can argue contrary to what i'm saying is the president has paid no real political price from his party, despite what was in the mueller report, impeachment, he has survived. he's the party's nominee and

he's running for re-election here. so maybe he understands something we don't know. >> michael schmidt thank you so much. >> his new book, man. >> his new book is -- >> michael's new book is so great. >> "donald trump versus the united states, inside the struggle to stop a president". coming up trump is destroying the republican party. why won't any of his peers speak up? we'll read from joe's new column ahead on "morning joe." joe's nen ahead on "morning joe. that allowed me to pay off aggressively and save without breaking my back or breaking the bank. ♪ and now your co-pilot.. without breaking my back or breaking the bank. still a father. but now a friend. still an electric car. just more electrifying. still a night out. but everything fits in. still hard work.

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when nixon invaded cambodia, the protests erupted again and at kent state in ohio, four students were shot to death by national guardsmen. four days later in new york, protesters were attacked by pro-nixon construction workers, hard hats. at the white house nixon accepted a hard hat as a gift. an unmistakable symbol for his

base. nixon went after the same protesters himself. >> they're the same thugs. >> that's a portion of the piece tom brokaw did for us a few years ago on the anniversary of nixon's silent majority speech. and that so-called hard hat riot is a scene you focus on for your latest article for "the washington post" entitled trump is destroying the republican party, why won't any of his peers speak up. in it you write this, perhaps no scene better dramatizes the turbulent political age we have been passing through for half a century than the hard hat riot of 1970. that violent show down pitted in members who took umbrage at long haired hippies they saw as

desecrating the american flag. the event long ago passed into political folk lore for conservatives. helping to identify the moment when white work class identity shifted from economic to cultur cultural. the new class war would be waged not against the old corporate robber barrens but the snobs of the cultural elite. that shift may explain why so many working-class americans have been voting against their own economic interests for so long. then president richard nixon declared thank god for the hard hats and began building a new majority including white working-class voters who supported the politicians they saw as backing the troops and revering their sacrifice. for decades, republican politicians and thought leaders followed nixon's lead, even when

that meant shamelessly attacking democratic war heroes for the political crime of being insufficiently patriotic. given the party's brash support of all things patriotic, the past week's developments have been disorienting even for the age of trump. bob woodward's new ref lagss regarding president trump's pandemic performance will forever tarnish the 45th president's legacy. but trump's savage attacks on america's military leaders and war dead will leave a lasting scar on his republican party. the playboy scion who avoided military service in vietnam by claiming bone spurs told woodward that the decorated military leaders who serve him are "pussies" and suckers. that's the word he used. it can be no coincidence that the president reportedly also called the 1,800 marines who

died at belleau woods suckers for giving their lives in war. after those comments were reported by the atlantic's jeffrey goldberg, trump made it worse for himself by mounting a defense that showed just how much he loathed the military and those who serve as its leaders. they want to do nothing but fight wars so that all of those wonderful companies that make the bombs and make the planes and make everything else stay happy trump blurted out at a news conference. this commander in chief offering lectures on the excesses of the military-industrial complex is laughable. he has, after all, championed weapons sales like no president before him. trump even refused to cancel billions in armed sales to saudi arabia after the killing of post

columnist jamal khashoggi because he didn't want to lose an order like that. he said doing so would be unfair to boeing, lock heed and wrath raethon. trump's republican party has been damaged yet again by their leader's offensive statements. it has also lost any claim it ever had at being the u.s. military's bulwark against left wing attacks. perhaps lindsey graham was right when he predicted that trump would destroy the republican party. the question that remains is why the south carolina senator, and so many of his peers, stay silent while the honor of our military leaders is under attack by america's president. one wonders what the hard hat rioters would have thought about that. >> david ignatius, i, of course,

have been concerned about the fact that donald trump is destroying the conservative movement for years, talking about that he was a big spending democrat, deficits, debts, nato, destroying nato, cozying up to russia. all the things we conservatives -- opposite of what we've always done. but this past week really has been an extraordinary breach of what republicans always claim they were to the american people. this bulwark against attacks, you remember the hard hat riots, you remember republicans and nixon taking up the mantle of america love it or leave it, support our troops. now you have an american president calling our war dead

suckers, you have him on tape using the vilist of words attacking people like james mattis and others who fought in wars like vietnam. i'm just wondering what your take is about the relative silence of these republicans not coming out and forcefully attacking the president's just desecration of our war dead and his attacks on these men and women who have given their lives and are still sacrificing leading our military. >> we lost audio. we'll get back to david. willie geist. it is quite a turn, isn't it? >> it is. and if you read through the response to -- you talked about the desecration of military

veterans and fallen heroes. if you read the response now just this week, that was last week's indictment of the president. if you read this week's responses on the woodward book, it's actually staggering because it's all in print, it's all on tape, the contradictions, the lies, everything the president has said, yet you have republican after republican falling into the bucket of i didn't read the book, i don't have time to read the book, which is the long-form version of i didn't see the tweet. or praising the president and the white house's leadership. you have mitch mcconnell saying of the president, quote, he should be applauded not criticized. mitch mcconnell, the majority leader, said that after the revelations in the woodward book. you had people like ted cruz and marco rubio saying i didn't read the book, i won't read the book. ted cruz this week also appeared on president trump's short list of potential supreme court nominees. but if you can't criticize

president trump on this, when it's on the record, on tape, in his own voice and you have the number under me, 193,000 deaths, what will you criticize the president for? >> it's donald trump's words on tape. attacking our military leaders who have given their lives in sacrifice to this country. they continue to serve this country, david ignatius. i understand we have audio back. what a disorienting turn for this party that felt free attacking the patriotism of war heroes through the years that now these republicans won't even call out their own party leader for his vicious attacks on the military. >> joe, i think that republicans have been intimidated by president trump. i've talked to many, as i'm sure

you have, and asked them, why are you silent? you know this is wrong. you know you should speak out. you know what he's doing to the military. and the answer i almost always get is, if i do i'll lose any possibility of being an effective legislature. they'll come after me. the only thing that's going to change this republican leadership, i think, is if they get scared. if they see they're about to lose the senate. in the next month if we see reaction to the woodward revelations, all the revelations, the evidence from trump's own mouth about how he feels about the military and other issues. if that begins to crack his base of support, you'll see defections, finally. republicans are about self-interest, about survival. they want to hold onto the senate if they can. i think maybe that moment that you and i have talked about so often is ahead if trump's numbers continue to be where they are.

>> you know, david, these senators have to deal with generals and admirals on a -- if if not daily, a weekly basis. and how do you sit across the table from somebody after the president of the united states has impugned their honor, attacked them, attacked the war dead, called them suckers, the same word by the way that woodward has him on tape calling military leaders, generals and admirals, this is -- it makes no political sense because the military is the one institution, other than the united states post office, that still gets the highest of marks from the american people. >> joe, the military itself knows that its professionalism is under attack. i've been impressed by which the

chairman of the joint chiefs, general milley and other military leaders have worked to protect the independence of the military to say we are not going to be used. we swore an oath to the constitution and not any individual. i think the american people should be reassured about that. what about the republicans they talk to, that's the question you're asking. when i witness conversations like that, people roll their eyes. they say, we have one commander in chief at a time, got to stay in our lane. i think, again, if we're -- in which there's a -- >> all right. audio problems again. >> we have audio problems. i want to say one thing. i did see mack thornberry, congressman from texas who i believe is the vice chairman from the armed services

committee, was chair of the armed services committee last session in congress, i believe, i did see mack come out and criticize the president's remarks. so there's one republican that's do it. >> there's one. viewers, between the s and comments about veterans and war heroes and the lies about coronavirus, this is not just an analysis people will be making. this is happening to the american people in many ways impacting them. and they will make their analysis. let's bring in to the conversation, msnbc contributor mike barnicle. hope his mic is working. donny deutsch is with us. white house correspondent yamiche al cinder is with us, and politics editor and msnbc political contributor jason johnson is with us as well. we have a lot to get to this hour. president trump yesterday continued to hammer his defense. defending himself against the

revelation that he has intentionally misled the american people on the severity of the coronavirus. in audio excerpts with his own voice on it, the president's voice, from bob woodward's interviews with president trump, trump admits he knew how deadly the virus was, yet he decided to downplay it in public for a long time. here's the president trying to explain himself yesterday. first at the white house and then at a campaign rally in michigan last night. >> why did you lie to the american people and why should we trust what you have to say now? >> that's a terrible question. and the phraseology. i didn't lie. what i said is we have to be calm, we can't be panicked. there has to be a calmness. you don't want me jumping up and down screaming there's going to be great death. and really causing some very, very serious problems for the country. >> if bob woodward thought it was bad, then he should have

immediately gone out publicly, not wait four months. he's had that statement for four months, maybe five months, he happens had it a long time, it was a series of taped interviews, mostly by telephone, quick ones, not long ones. i did it out of curiosity because i have respect and i want to see, i wonder whether somebody like that can write good. i don't think he can happen. >> picked up that phone 18 times over the course of nine hours. president trump was asked yesterday about his response to the coronavirus pandemic compared to that of other world leaders. >> mr. president you talked about the need to stay calm and not jump up and down and scare people. a lot of other world leaders were calm, german chancellor angela merkel was calm when she presented information to the german people so they could stay safe and protect their families why as president of the united states did you not share the

information you knew at the time -- >> if you look at the european union right now, they're having breakouts like you've never seen before, and frankly their numbers are a level that are much worse than we have seen here. phil, we have done much, much better than the european union. i just read you numbers that are not good on their behalf and very good on ours, and we have rounded the final turn. we're going to have vaccines very soon. maybe sooner than you think. listen, maybe much sooner than you think. but we have done a phenomenal job. >> we have rounded the final turn. the united states yesterday reported more than is 1,100 deaths, france had 30 deaths yesterday, italy 14, germany 3 and on wednesday spain had 34 deaths. >> willie, can we just keep that screen shot up? here's an example. the president lies nonstop.

we know he lies nonstop. but in the hopes that one of his supporters is actually looking for another channel and accidentally has stumbled across "morning joe," look at those numbers. here's the president who lied again through his teeth yesterday saying that the european union is going through this terrible time. and you look at the united states and our deaths, over 1,000. france 30. italy 14. germany 3. spain 34. we're over 1,000, willie, again, a country with a population that makes up 4.5% of the world's population and we're sitting around 25%, not of infections, of deaths. of american deaths. we are so worse off, willie, and

have been so much worse off than every other country, if you look, again, at the percentages of deaths. i say, every other country certainly every other advanced country that has the technology that we have. that have the research universities that we have. that have, you know, the exceptionalism that our country has. but the president's lying, saying we're doing so much better than the european union, it's not true. >> he's defensive in the moment and so he wings it, and when he wings it he lies. there were a couple other points in there we need to go back to. number one he said you may be surprised to see how soon there's a vaccine, maybe advertising that by election day he says and also saying we've turned the corner. dr. fauci actually just yesterday said no, we're not turning the corner. we have a long fall and winter ahead of us. that's dr. anthony fauci saying

that. dr. anthony fauci has also had to tamp down time and again this idea there might be a vaccine by election day, he said there's not. fauci saying we have to hunker down for fall and winter, vaccine next year. so the president going out and saying things that directly contradict the experts that work with him and for him. >> what's both remarkable, but not surprising about yesterday is that the president continues to downplay the virus. continues to not share the information that he likely is getting from his health officials, even as his health officials are going on tv to tell that information to the american people. we've seen the president over and over and over again talk about the united states as if we are leading in our coronavirus response when we know that's just not true. you put the graphic up, we know per capita, when you solve for the population differences between the united states and most modern industrialized

countries, the united states is still doing worse. a couple weeks ago, maybe a week ago now, we were only second to india when it came to new cases per day in the world. so what we're seeing here is the president really leaning in on this this idea that if he continues to lie, if he continues to talk about the coronavirus as if it's about to be in the rear view mirror that will somehow win him a second term. i think what's complicating that is the fact that we now see in bob woodward's -- in bob woodward's tapes and in his interviews with the president that he knew in real time it was not like the flu. he knew in real time this was one of the deadliest things he was going to face as president and he just didn't share that information. i think what we're going to continue to see is this, and the question is what you've been dealing with all week and all morning, are republicans and his voters going to make him pay consequences for that or not? >> and mike barnicle, donald

trump was warned by his national security adviser in january this was going to be the worse thing that he faced. he was warned it was really bad. he knew how bad it was in late january and continued denying it for months. and so, i just wonder, you know, this is a guy who bragged back in 2016 that he could shoot somebody on fifth avenue and his supporters would stay with him. now he actually tests that. he has lied about a pandemic that has killed 193,000 americans. killed them. and he is now testing whether he can do that and get away with it. >> you know, joe, we can measure the damage the virus has done. we do it with a body count, sadly. approaching 200,000 people in multiple millions of cases.

but we can't really measure the damage that donald trump has done to institutions of this country and the damage he's done to the country itself. and i'm talking now about people's memories of grief and loss of what happened with the virus and other things having to do with governance in this country. but donald trump because multiple times a day he consistently and intentionally says and does things that takes people off the track. so now if you talk to people about the virus, i think many people think, well, the virus is in the past. we have got it under control. we don't have it under control. but the damage that donald trump has done to this country, to the people of this country by his behavior, his verbiage, his daily rhett ri daily rhetoric, his daily lies as you point out is almost incalculable. >> it is. and 53 days to go until election day. and over the last month

president trump's campaign has pulled back from television advertising. seemingly giving joe biden a significant advantage in key states. according to "the washington post" this has sparked disagreement in the trump's team. writing, republican officials have been inundated with calls from worried activists and donors who complain about constant biden ads in their local media markets with very few paid trump responses. some republicans close to trump have been baffled by the decision to sharply curb advertising. the paper continues, with less than eight weeks to go before election day, the once-lean biden campaign is flush with cash while the massive trump operation is facing tough budgetary decisions down the stretch that have increased tensions around the president.

reportedly trump's campaign manager said it was possible to cut the budget. because it was impossible to cut staffing and campaign headquarters. between august 10th and september 7th, biden's campaign spent about $90 million on television ads more than four times the $18 million spent by the trump campaign. during that time, pro-biden efforts outspent pro-trump efforts by a margin of $9 million to $560,000 in michigan. trump campaign officials noted to the paper they have a far more robust ground game than democrats and a candidate who travels far more often, which they feel generates far greater media interest and decreased for the need for paid tv ads.

so these are his rallies, joe, that he thinks -- that's where he gets his energy, where people come and see him, see his plane. >> we'll see what happens. who knows. he was, of course, underestimated by just about everybody in 2016. >> that's right. >> maybe he's right in 2020. one thing we know for sure, donny deutsch, is that things have completely turned around. for three and a half years all we heard from the trump people is how much money they're raising. we're going to win because we're raising all this money. it was constant. my god, they would -- if you talked to them on the phone, that's all they blabbed about. we're creating this death star. we're raising all of this money. we're going to have billions. it's all over. biden on the other hand, as you know, being in democratic politics from time to time. you know biden was always a terrible fund-raiser. yet you talk to any democratic fund-raiser right now they will

tell you they've never seen the energy around any candidate, issue, race that they see right now around joe biden the money is just flooding in and, of course, a lot of that is because people want donald trump out of office. but that said, you look at these numbers, these ad buys in state after state where trump is just getting trounced by joe biden, couldn't come at a worse time for him. you're supposed to save your money until you can see the whites of their eyes and that's when you go up at the end of a campaign. but they're doing just the opposite. what's the impact of that, do you think? >> i think the impact speaks for itself. you follow the money, you see where the wind is blowing. we're coming off a week where donald trump, two things happen, obviously. we desecrated our war heroes calling them losers, these are

war heroes who gave their lives so we could talk on television like this. this is not abstract stuff, this is hundreds of thousands of people who died for our country and at the same time cost 100,000 lives, 4,000 lives with the pandemic at this point. so you have to say why is someone voting for donald trump? when you ask people that, his policies. i know he's a jerk but i like the policies. what are the policies? is it the stock market? the stock market was up more with bill clinton and barack obama than it was with donald trump or bush or reagan. is it israel? what he did with syria, the kurds? what are you left with? it's either one extra dollar in my pocket for taxes. i don't care about anything else, if it's one extra dollar or racism. maybe not even the obscene

racism of like i hate black people, but a much more subtle racism, let's keep things the way they are. let's keep the suburbs the way they are. keep the exact dollars in everybody's pocket the way they are. let's not go too far and even out the playing field. those are the only two reasons left. there are no other reasons to vote for donald trump. either you care about one extra dollar in your taxes or let's keep the people of color where they are. there are no other reasons left. it's that simple. t there aren't these magical policies anymore. >> yeah. and the anti-anti-trumpism that is spouted out there, if i ever talk to anyone, someone i know,

why are you voting -- it's nancy pelosi is a left winger, aoc is a left winger, joe biden is going to be crazy like them. are you serious? you're the same person telling me that covid is just like the flu. no, it's not. jason, so i get some advice when i first started running my campaign, very wise man told me here's what you do, son. you raise all the money you can, and you don't spend it. i'm like, what? he goes, you raise all the money you can, and then don't spend it. i'm like that makes no sense. no, that makes all the sense in the world. don't spend your money. he goes, last two, last three weeks when voters start to focus, then you pour it all on. donald trump is spending -- my god, he has spent hundreds of millions and millions of dollars

on the stupidest things. and here we are crunch time when people are voting in north carolina, about to start voting in pennsylvania, going to be voting in michigan, all the early voting going on around the country and they can't even put up ads, they're running out of money. >> and i'm sure you had this experience when you ran as well. the thing about advertising, it works both ways. it's not just for your voters it's also for your donors. your donors are the ones that call you why don't i see your ads on television, yard signs? that's the other thing that's happening to donald trump right now because of his failure to do proper advertising, the people who give him money are wondering where their money is going. not to go nerdy for everybody, but there's a thing in a campaign called burn rate. how much you're bringing in versus how much you're spending. it is a forest fire for the trump campaign. they have burned you this

everything. and joe biden managed to raise a lot of money on zoom. it means one, trump has to hope and beg that local coverage of his rallies is going to move voters which it won't. he has to hope and beg whatever money he has left is going to allow door knocking, it won't. or he's never running a campaign all along and he thinks that cheating and affecting the post office and suppressing the vote is what's going to allow him to win. because to have as little money as he has, he must have some trick up his sleeve because it's not financial, his pockets are empty. >> we have something else going on here. we'll have an analysis in about 10, 15 minutes. it's interesting, jason you're talking about burn rate. there's been an analysis of facebook ads out there. the overwhelming number of trump facebook ads, if you go into the archives and look at it, they're

solicitation ads. like a very small number of those ads now are targeting. they're almost entirely, according to our next guest entirely solicitation. so they're spending millions of dollars to try to raise more money, which reminds me of what ben carson did in 2016. carson, of course, spent tons of money raising money. and it was a burn rate and the only people that made money were the people that were mailing out the information and the people that were -- i mean, he got -- ben carson got totally used by people around him, i think. because they were just burning through millions of dollars trying to raise millions of dollars. who would have believed four years later we would be in a position where an incumbent president might be in the same position. >> yeah. and it's crazy to think also that -- i'm sorry?

>> go ahead, jason. >> i'm sorry? and it's crazy to think that look, i can disagree with trump idealogically, but he has smart people around him, they had to see this was coming. they had to see when they were taking vacations and spending this money that it was not going to play out well for them, but unfortunate unfortunately, it's a bunch of rats running from the ship. they want to make money from donald trump and run off and write their books because they don't think he's going to win. >> one more point when we talk about how the campaign is spending money. the trump campaign spend more money this summer on ads on fox news, presumably most of those viewers have been turned already. also the campaign remember ran ads in washington d.c. why? in addition to the fox news ads so president trump would see them and know that his campaign is making ads and working for

him. again, it comes back to pleasing the boss even at the expense of more important places like michigan and wisconsin. >> what about the super bowl? think he can use the millions he blew on a couple of super bowl ads because he didn't want to be outdone by michael bloomberg? that's money he could be using in these different states. if you're giving this guy money, contributing to him in the past, you have to be asking, why am i throwing good money after bad? it doesn't make sense anymore. they're not -- they're not spending it wisely and they haven't spent it wisely. >> and they're burning the money all to feed the ego, to please the boss. he likes that. another candidate would say why are you putting ads on fox news? put them in michigan and wisconsin. why are you putting them in d.c.? put them in wisconsin and michigan. but he was pleased with the ads

because he got to see them as he watched tv. >> jason johnson we thank you for being on this morning. still ahead on "morning joe," former secretary of homeland security under president obama, jeh johnson joins the conversation. you're watching "morning joe" we'll be right back. ching "morn we'll be right back. makes it be. state-of-the-art technology makes it brilliant. the visionary lexus nx. lease the 2020 nx 300 for $339 a month for 36 months. experience amazing at your lexus dealer.

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welcome back to "morning joe." it is friday, september 11th, 2020. 19 years now since the attacks on lower manhattan, shanksville, pennsylvania and, of course, the pentagon in washington. today there stands one world trade where the two towers once stood. mike barnicle, 19 years on, hard to believe that number jumps out at you. there's so much in the news these days, so much to talk about, think about and process that the date skrecreeps up on more every year. what are your thoughts today, 19

years later? >> willie, you just eluded to one of my principle thaoughts yu worry and wonder whether the memory of that day, the impact of that day and all that followed it will be diminished a bit by what we ensudure each an every day by the politics of the moment. yesterday i went to a small ceremony in bedford, massachusetts, a town about 20 miles west of boston. it was held by two families, both from the town of belmont, massachusetts. and it was by the concord river, a few miles down from the old north bridge, the shot heard around the world, by a bridge that was named in honor of two sons, john hart, 20 when he was killed in iraq in october of

2003 and travis dezidirio who was 19 when he was killed in at the lieu ja in october of 2004. the two families stood there. they weren't angry, they weren't yelling, they weren't ideological. they gathered some people and a few members of the press because they wanted people to know that their two boys who had options, other than joining the army and the marine corp. had options but chose to serve the united states. they weren't losers, they weren't suckers, that's what this family wanted. there was more sadness than anger and the sadness was over the fact that as john hart's father said we are now led by a man like donald trump. >> that day was just the beginning, obviously. all the deaths of that day but as you point out the men and women who sacrificed in iraq and afghanistan, the new york city

firefighters and first responders who died since because of what they inhaled on that pile as they worked to find survivors. we'll talk about that more later in the show. joining us now jeh johnson. secretary johnson, good to have you with us this morning. what are your thoughts today on this 19th anniversary about where we are as a country, security threats we're thinking more about domestic threats like white supremacists but what do you think about the threat matrix this country faces 19 years later? >> willie, i have two thoughts. on 9/11, 19 years ago, 2,977 people died. this time next week in all likelihood that little box on the lower right-hand side of your screen is going to say 200,000 people killed as a result of the covid virus. and the thing that is so horribly depressing is that the

nation with the most powerful health care apparatus has had the poorest health care response. put aside what president trump apparently told bob woodward on february 7th or march 19th, by mid april, we knew what we should do to flatten this curve. here in the northeast, in the new york/new jersey area, we learned that if we physically distance, if we wear a mask, engage in good hygiene, if we stay away from unnecessary travel we can flatten this curve. but unfortunately the virus has spread, it's continued to go on and on. the other thought i had, willie, is prior to 9/11, we had from our intelligence community evidence that there were terrorists who were planning to hijack aircraft. right now, as we speak, we have very clear evidence from our intelligence community that our democracy is under threat from the russians and other foreign actors.

they are attempting to manipulate votes. they are attempting to hack into campaigns. and they are engaging in information operation directed at the american people. 19 years ago, there's evidence that we overlooked the threat. here we know the threat. but the political leaders of this administration are actively trying to suppress it from the american people, from congress. we've learned this week that the acting secretary of dhs has told his subordinates don't talk about this. this is something right in our face and we're under direct threat from this. and so, you know, those who don't know history are bound to repeat it. and i'm afraid that's what we're seeing right now. >> i was going to ask you, mr. secretary, what was the gravest threat facing the united states 19 years after 9/11. admiral william mcraven who led

the attack on osama bin laden said some time ago that donald trump could well be an imminent threat to the united states security. we now find out that the director of national intelligence for donald trump, for some time, dan coates, former republican senator, former ambassador to germany, was convinced that donald trump was an asset for vladimir putin, or at least was being blackmailed by vladimir putin. so let's move donald trump to the side. as far as threats, let me ask you. what do you consider on this september 11th, to be the threat that the united states needs to be guarding against, looking beyond donald trump, looking beyond this election, looking into 2021? >> joe, i have to say the number one threat to our nation and to

our world is global warming. and it's a threat, as we see in california right now and it's a threat because we are failing to address it. as barack obama used to say, it is a slow motion emergency. and unfortunately our political leaders always deal with the thing that is on the top of their inbox. this has been a crisis for some time now that we are failing to address and we are seeing the evidence of it more and more, year after year. >> yamiche has the next question. >> thanks so much for being here secretary. just talked about global warming, election security. on this 9/11, 19 years after so many people died, 64 times the number of people who died on 9/11 have died from the coronavirus in the united states, and i want to ask you, how do you see the coronavirus as a national security threat at all? how do you think it might change

the way we look at security in this country if this virus continues to kill thousands of americans? >> it is a national security threat. anything that has the ability to kill 200,000 people in seven months is a national security disaster. and there need to be lessons learned from this crisis. this was an unprecedented crisis but not an unanticipated one. we learned a lot from the ebola experience in 2014. this is on a much, much larger scale, obviously. but the lesson learned from a national security perspective is that national leadership, the messaging from national leadership does matter. even though the authority to address a situation like this largely resides at the state and local level with quarantines and the like, national leadership, the responsibility to tell the

truth to the american people about the crisis we face is vital in a situation like this. >> mr. secretary, i'm curious about an address you taped airing today, liberty university, a former obama official going there especially at this time when the university's leader had to leave amid horrific scandal involving morality and perhaps abuse of power and also the fact that jer jerry fa jerry fall within -- fallwell jr. what's the reason behind this address and what's it about? >> my ancestors are from lynchburg, virginia. my slave ancestors are buried 4,

5 miles from the campus of liberty university. i've been to lynchburg, i've been to lynchburg. my great grandfather was born a slave, he was a devout baptist minister. the other reason i accepted the invitation, i wanted to talk about the importance of morality in leadership for some time now. they reached out to me after i was in lynchburg to talk to the naacp last year, i thought it was the perfect venue for delivering such an address. we filmed it last week and it will be shown to approximately 10,000 students in about three hou hours. i have to say i did not draw the line in the political sand but i did talk about the importance of telling the truth. rule number one of leadership, tell the truth. treat others as you would have them treat you. be inclusive.

be collaborative in leadership. and never ask someone to do something you wouldn't do yourself. and i can't speak for the school, but i think it did resonate, it will resonate well with the students when they hear it. >> jeh johnson, thank you very much. >> mr. secretary thank you so much for doing that. i'm sure that's something the students and a lot of the faculty appreciate. as you know, a lot of people have been concerned there for a very long time. there are a lot of good people there. there are a lot of good people that have degrees from there that have been concerned about how the school's been run over the past several years. so i think it's great that you were invited, but also just briefly if you can, just speak to that. that there are good, good people there who have been struggling with, you know, trying to get the right leadership in place.

>> you know, you're right. things are not always as they seem from the national perspectives. the campus was way more diverse than one might have anticipated. i think i saw a white female student wearing a black lives matter t-shirt. i met a student who was seeking asylum in this country. i met a black woman from brooklyn, new york. and the common thread, obviously, is they're devout christians. but they understand the importance of character and morality and i wanted to make the -- deliver the message it's important for our political leaders to embrace these values. we can't just simply decouple what a leader does personally from how we feel about him because the economy is doing well or so forth and for that speech i consulted military

leaders and they all said in times of crisis, a leader who is not believed will not be followed. i think that's exactly right. >> jeh johnson, thank you very, very much for being on this morning. as we go to break, here is video of the u.s. flag being unfurled at the west side of the pentagon just after sunrise, as it is done every 9/11 anniversary. we're back in a moment. versary. we're back in a moment everyone is at risk for enamel loss.

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more now on the reporting on the health of the trump campaign's fund-raising apparatus, now with 53 days to go until election day. earlier this hour we told you of "the washington post" report that over the last month, president trump's campaign has pulled back from television advertising. seemingly giving joe biden a significant advantage in key states.

we reported earlier this week that president trump is denying claims that his campaign is facing financial struggles as he said he's considering putting his own money into the 2020 race. the quote, of the $1.1 billion his campaign and the party raised from the beginning of 2019 through july, more than 800 million has already been spent. and now new data reveals over the last 90 days, the trump campaign has outspent the biden campaign on facebook ads nearly 2-1, 61.1 million to 34 million. but that may not be what it seems. joining us now is sasha samatin,co ceo and co-founder of apple cart, a data science firm that advises corporations and political campaigns with targeted advertising, including congressman conor lamb's surprise 2018 special election

victory. thank you very much for being on with us this morning. >> so, sasha -- >> thanks for having me. >> your firm dug into the archives of all of these ads. what did you find? >> that's right. so facebook makes available a library of all of the different advertising units that the campaign is running on facebook. and what we found was very interesting. number one, on this particular medium, president is outspending vcht bid vice president biden by quite a bit of money. and despite runs tens of thousands of campaign units during the campaigns, there are key differences in terms of how the trump campaign is spending its resources versus how the biden campaign is spending its less substantial resources on the same medium. >> and what are those differences? >> sure. so the trump campaign is actually spending roughly two out of every three dollars in states that are in swing states. whereas the biden campaign is spending over half of the money that they're spending on

facebook in swing states, focused on potential swing voters, focused on people who they need to mobilize in the general election. the trump folks are spending that money disproportionatly on fund-raising. >> so, do you have a number, what percentage you could find out of how much of their money they are spending on advertising, what percentage of on the ads are going straight for fund-raising? >> so somewhere between 85 and 90% of the money that they're spending on facebook over the last 09 days we believe has gone straight into advertising efforts with about two 30s of that spent not even being spent in swing states where potentially those people that funds are raised from might actually be able to make a difference with their votes. >> so let me bring in donnie deutsch. donnie, if those numbers bear

out, this is just shocking that donald trump has -- the and i'm sure very discouraging for people that are giving this guy money, that according to sasha, two-thirds of his money on facebook has not been spent in swing states over the past several months and that 85% to 90% of his facebook advertising has been to get money to fund raise. and that would mean about one out of ten dollars have been spent on targeting voters, but two-thirds of those dollars are spent in nonswing states. this is an absolute disaster. and i must say, as somebody who always feared -- sorry, donnie -- advertising firms because i found that as so many of them were interested in churning and burning, i'm not talking about you, i'd place my

own ads because i didn't want to get scammed. and i knew that so many advertising firms, they were only looking at the bottom line, how much money were they going to get out of television ads. but in this case, donnie, somebody is making a ton of money and they're not targeting voters in swing states. >> you need to know one thing that you touched on earlier. you know, when i was running my agency, there was always a dopy ceo. a dopy ceo, we would take out an ad right in front of their office. they would drive. they weren't looking at any spreadsheets to understand where the money was going. as long as they saw their ad -- and they spent $1 million in d.c. you might as well give that money to donald trump in his pocket and say here, mr. trump, you're a big, important guy. so there is somebody whose eye is off the ball. the amount that they are using facebook that way is almost malpractice because this should be trying to unearth the voters,

the turnout, the people that you can't get any other way except granularly. so it's a stunning example of mismanagement in this campaign. somebody said earlier there's a lot of smart people surrounding trump, i'm not quite sure who those people are, actually. >> you have a question for sasha? >> yes. sasha, can you explain a little bit, you know, facebook works differently with advertisers than a traditional, you know, client. explain how facebook themselves actually partner up in their responsibility or their accountability in a lot of things that happen. >> sure. so one of the examples facebook offers to advertisers is to narrow your content to specific audiences of people. whether that's voters in swing states or people who are concerned about specific issues. it makes it possible to advertise to audiences as small as a couple hundred or a couple thousand individuals. and the biden campaign is taking

pretty effective measures as far as that is concerned. they're using those advantages to their benefit to put content in front of people to try to get them up to speed. they're doing the same thing, for example, when it comes to the mechanics of getting people through the process of getting out to vote, which is hard in a normal year and obviously this year is so much more complicated. the trump campaign, on the other hand, is treating facebook in a similar way to the way they treat broadcast television. they've got a whole bunch of minor variations on a large number of -- excuse me, a small number of ad units and they're pushing those really, really hard to try to raise more money. >> sasha, thank you so much for your analysis. >> and by the way, the quick summary is, again, that over the last 90 days, the trump

campaign, of $60 million they've spent on facebook, two-thirds of those ads have been out of swing states. biden's have been primarily in swing states. and 85% to 90% of what sasha's firm saw was not for targeting, not for getting out the vote, not fgetting voters, but for thm trying to raise money. >> and still ahead, president trump is on the defense as he sticks to his story that he played down the coronavirus threat to prevent panic. plus, official remembrances get under way soon to mark 19 years since the 9/11 attacks. we will have live coverage from lower manhattan, the pentagon, and shanksville, pennsylvania. "morning joe" is coming right back. "morning joe" is coming ri back

the president put the health of america first from day one. >> i wanted to always play it down. i still like playing it down. >> yes. >> because i don't want to create a panic. >> he also wanted to reassure the american people all along the way. >> is there a way we can do something like that, by injection inside or almost a cleaning. >> there's that old saying from world war ii in great britain, keep calm, carry on. >> people that you've never heard of. people that are in the dark shadows. people that are --

>> what does that mean? that sounds like conspiracy theory. >> the president made it clear he wanted us to deploy the full resources of the federal government. >> it's supposed to be our stockpile, not supposed to be state stockpile. >> i couldn't be more proud of the strong, steady leadership that president donald trump brought to this coronavirus pandemic from day one. >> it's not just old people, bob, but just today and yesterday, some startling facts came out. it's not just older -- >> yeah, exactly. >> it's plenty of young people. >> did you -- willie, did you ever see "absence of malice." >> yeah, of course. >> did you ever see that final scene? >> mr. brimly, he turns to his assistant d.a. and i forget the guy's name and he depose, tell me, what you gonna do after this job? and he basically said yes, you are. i'm your boss. well, that is what i -- when i look at mike pence and i see him lying through his teeth, a man

who -- i moon, from everything i've known, he's a man of great faith and he certainly has let us all know that throughout his entire public life that he's a man of great faith, so who is to doubt that. but i just wonder, though, when he's lying through his teeth for this president, i really do -- i go, what is mike pence going to do after this? where does he go to get his reputation back? because donald trump has been lying through his teeth about the coronavirus for well over a year. and the favorite -- my favorite part of what pence said and what trump is saying is when they're drawing these churchill comparisons and saying, oh, we're just like dhurch ichurchi keeping calm and carrying on. i've said on this program since martha he should be like

churchill. and, you know, i read and we had eric on several times here and churchill would weep openly in public when he would go visit these sites during the london blitz. he would tell people how bad things were and at the same time said we're going to keep fighting. as long as they are convinced that those in charge of their affairs are not deceiving them or not dwelling in a fool's paradise. that's winston churchill. but here is the churchill quote that i thought of when all of that, i would love to say it, but this is, of course, a children's show. all of the b.s. that they were spewing yesterday, i thought of

winston churchill's speech to members of parliament, off the floor, and this, willie, is what winston churchill did to get support to stand up to nazi germany when so many people wanted to appease hitler and give in, give in. this is what winston churchill said. if this one island story of ours is to end at last, let it end only when each one of us lies choking in his own blood upon the ground. nothing poly annaish about that. churchill let the british people know all along what was in front of them, when france collapsed,

he said the battle of france is over. the battle of britain has begun. willie, my god, again, in realtime in march and april and may, we kept telling this guy, just tell americans the truth. they can handle it. don't hide the truth. don't be responsible for the lies. he could not stop lying, willie. >> and now we know from woodward's book, that was the strategy, that he wanted to down play this because he believed it helped. he didn't want to create a panic, he said. but as you've just laid out, i can feel jon meacham's draw dropping to the floor when he heard those repeated comparisons yesterday to winston churchill and to keeping calm and to carrying on, to great britain and the blitz. churchill famously leveled with the british people. of course he was inspiring, he leveled with the british people about how bad this was, how bad it could be if the country didn't rally.

and you're right, we said in february and march and april, president trump would get credit, actually, for come out and saying what was true, which is he didn't invent this virus. he didn't bring it to the united states. but it's here and now we've got to make some sacrifice toes deal with it. the sooner we deal with it, the shorter the run will be. if we ignore it the way we have ignored it, we might be sitting here now in the fall going back to school or not going back to school six months later because we didn't deal with it. so, yeah, those comparisons are gross and i honestly don't know how mike pence does it. i don't know. do you take a shower after a tv appearance like that? how do you look yourself in the mirror? how do you look your family in the mirror when you know one day after on tape the president has confessed that he didn't take it seriously, you're coming out and praising his leadership. i honestly -- >> it's nauseating. >> as a person, i don't know how you do that. >> i don't know how he does it. >> it's very difficult to watch. it's also very difficult to read the writings of some people that i have respected for most of my life who actually are

apologizing for donald trump committing one of the most egregious acts any american president has ever committed. no "wall street journal" editorialal page which by the way was the worst example of anti-trumpism trying to actually bring us nancy pelosi quotes from february and cuomo quotes as if that has anything to do with the president of the united states lying to the american people for months. >> yeah. >> and lying to them about everything from this infection, the rate of the infection, the infection going away magically, no need to worry about it, no need to wear masks. look at his rally last night. that is the consequence of six months of lying. it was another super spreader event with people packed closely together. >> those are the people being hurt by the president.

>> yeah. and so the hostility towards doctors, the hostility towards medical advice, again, we have been saying, mika, for years if this guy were a ceo -- >> be gone. >> if he were the preacher of a church, if he were a high school football coach, if he was a middle school janitor, he would be fired. he would have been fired long ago. but if he were a doctor, lying, willfully to 320 million people in the middle of the worst pandemic in a century in this country, and doing it in such a way that would prolong the agony, increase the number of people killed, increase the levels of unemployment, he would be -- he would have his medical license stripped and he would be sued into bankruptcy. >> yeah. >> but, wait, he's president of the united states so we define deviancy down that way.

there is no getting around this. and for the jackasses who are out there trying to forgive this guy for killing -- okay, "wall street journal" editorial page, he's not responsible for the deaths of 190,000 americans. no. i mean, there are studies out that suggest that maybe he is responsible for the deaths of, what, 100,000 maybe? what would you say he's responsible for, "wall street journal" editorial page? 120,000? maybe he just killed 120,000 people can his lies. only 80,000? do you think he only killed 80,000 senior citizens? 80,000 americans with his lies, "wall street journal" editorial page? no? how about 60,000? do you think maybe he killed 30,000 people, "wall street journal" editorialal people with his life? what do you think history is going to say? they sure as hell are not going

to say what you said in your op-ed this morning. what if maybe he only killed 4,000 out of 190,000. maybe do you think that's probably pretty safe to say that him lying about this pandemic, him lying about this virus, him underplaying the risks so much so that people would run into stores stores at walmart and tear down displays that had masks on it, that people would run around saying that this was a hoax? he would. he called it a democratic hoax a month after he told woodward it was really bad stuff. what do you think, "wall street journal" editorial page? maybe 4,000 out of 190,000 people were killed because donald trump's lies? do you think only 4,000 maybe, oh, i don't know as many americans who died on 9/11, is

that fair to say? you know what? i think actually i think history is going to find out it was a hell of a lot more than 4,000 americans who were killed because donald trump -- and, you know, i've been reading you "wall street journal" editorial page my entire adult life. in fact, you gave me the crib notes basically when i was running for congress in 1994. i would read your page and i would go out and campaign. i didn't listen to what the nrcc sent me because i found that you always wrote it better and more concisely and gave me a better argument for what consevenism was in 1994, but it sure as hell is not right now. but i'd be careful and i say this as a long time listener, first time caller, but i'd be careful because history in a couple on of months is going to be harsh. remember when i started criticizing george w. bush?

and conservatives said why are you a trader? why are you a liberal? you're a liberal, joe. when did you become -- how could you be criticizing george w. bush? and then you know what he did? you know what happened? he left office. and you know what happened when he left office? all these conservatives started criticizing george w. bush. i've got to say, "wall street journal" editorial page, you did criticize george w. bush along with me early for his massive spending. good on you. you don't have that gene in you any more. i'm not sure where it went. and you can't just say, yeah, we criticized donald trump, too, but come on, nancy pelosi went to chinatown in february. nancy pelosi is not president of the united states. nancy pelosi's team didn't know on new year's eve of 2020 what

was coming from china. manssy pelosi's employee is didn't know and start preparing on january 1st, 2020, about the pandemic to warn the administration. nancy pelosi sure wasn't warned on january 28th that this was the biggest crisis to face donald trump in his presidency. no. no, she wasn't. but you know who was? donald trump. and i'm not really sure what is in it for you. continue to go apologize for this guy. but whether we're talking about him denigrating the war dead, whether we're -- and you know we did it, by the way. maybe people out in personality cult, like maybe those people really think that those quotes were just made up, but you know what they're not made up. you know he denigrated "the wall

street journal" editorialal page. you know he did. you know he did. you know he called men and women who dedicated their entire lives and spent months and years away from their children in defense of this country. you know he called them suckers and things that i can't repeat on this show but you'll defend him. where is marco rubio, by the way? is he on vacation? where is ted cruise? i haven't heard from them. do they agree with donald trump? i don't -- where is corey gardner? does corey gardner agree with donald trump, that men and women who have dedicated their entire lives to this country, who run the united states military are

suckers and another word that can't be repeated on this show? are they proud of donald trump for lying to the people of colorado, for lying to the people of florida, for lying to the people of texas, for lying to the people of the united states of america, martha mcsally, are you proud that donald trump lied to the people of arizona for the last six or seven months? where are they? i've heard nothing from them. maybe i missed it. and if i missed it, i apologize. but, mika, what do they think january is going to look like inspect it is goi? it is going to be a cold, long winter and they're going to be spending the rest of their lives explaining why they remained silent in a time of moral crisis, when they found out that their president lied to the american people for six months

in the greatest crisis since 9/11. i don't get it. still ahead, president trump is now insulting the reporter with whom he chose to speak for nine hours. the latest on his attempts to throw bob woodward under the bus. >> what, for pressing the record button? >> yeah. next on "morning joe." cord button >> yeah. next on "morning joe." from prom dresses... ...to soccer practices... ...and new adventures. you hope the more you give the less they'll miss. but even if your teen was vaccinated against meningitis

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president trump yesterday continued to defend himself against the revelation that he has intentionally misled the american people on the severity of the coronavirus. it's shown in audio excerpts from bob woodward's interviews with the president. trump admits that he knew how deadly the virus was. yet decided to, in his words, may it down in public. here is the president trying to explain himself yesterday. first at the white house and then at a campaign rally where many were not wearing masks in

michigan last night. >> why did you lie to the american people and why should we trust what you have to say now? >> that's the terrible question and the phraseology. i didn't lie. what i said is we have to be calm. we can't be panicked. there has to be a calmness. you don't want me jumping up and down screaming there is going on be great death. there is going to -- and really cause something very, very serious problems for the country. if bob woodward thought it was bad, then he should have gone out publicly -- you know, he's had that statement for four or five months. it was a series of taped interviews mostly by telephone. quick ones, not long ones. i did it out of curiosity because i do have respect and i want to say, i wonder whether or not somebody like that can write good. i don't think he can but let's see what happens. this walk job who wrote the book, he said, well, trump knew

a little bit. they wanted me to come out and scream, people are dieing, we're dieing. no, no, we did it just the right way. >> but, remember, the president says his goal is to prevent public panic. >> wants to surrender our country to the violent left wing mob. rioters, anarchists, arsonists and flag burners. flood your state with refugees from terrorist hot spots around the world. the left wants to get rid of me so they can come after you. confiscate your guns. shut down auto production, delay the vaccine. they want to destroy your suburbs and indoctrine nate your children. you will have crime like you've never seen before. no decide, town or suburb will be safe. >> i'm feeling calm. >> do not panic. >> way to tamp down the panic. by the way, you could actually run clips for, you know, about

thee years because that's all he does when he's campaigning. all he does. i mean, you remember 2018 campaign talking about the invasion of the cara vans coming to the united states and carrying diseases and then other people jumped in, leprosy is coming in small pox and whatever else. it's crazy. and also, don't you love his stop me before i kill again defense? why didn't bob woodward tell people that i was lying and killing them? why didn't he stop me before i was responsible for the deaths of tens of thousands of americans? i don't know. i'm not sure how that is going to work in focus groups. >> there is so much there. let's also go back to his calling bob woodward a whack job. he called him yesterday the rapidly fading bob woodward. again, president trump picked up the phone 18 times and talked to bob woodward for nine hours. so he called whack job, as he calls him, bob woodward, 18

times and willingly gave up all of this on tape on the record. coming up, how the administration is dealing with the fallout from the trump tapes. nbc's carol lee joins the conversation straight ahead. nbc's carol lee joins the conversation straight ahead.

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carol lee, let's talk about this response from the white house. yesterday, they went to churchill, president trump was being like churchill urging people to keep calm and carry on. the day before that, we heard some defenders saying it was lindsey graham's fault, he set up the president. he arranged for this. and then we had this orwellan response from the press secretary who said the thing you just heard president trump say on tape, on tape in his own voice, is not the thing you think you heard. in other words, he never tried to down play it. he said on tape that he liked to down play it. it appears from the outside like they're spinning on this. are they landing on churchill or there will be something new today? >> it's anyone's guess where you go from here. but the overarching theme of the response is defense. the president is on defense. some of his allies are not happy with the way that they're pushing back on this because it's so defensive and what

you've seen in all you of the clips you just played are the two strands of it. one is the trump playbook, play number one to try to discredit the source. they're doing that aggressively with bob woodward. >> he's the source. >> right. there are people around -- >> trump is the source. >> -- that think that's a really bad idea because, a, bob woodward is credible and b, you can't tell people they're not hearing what they're hearing. but this is a repetitive sort of go-to play that we've seen from the president before. you know, he called bob woodward a walk job. he called james comey a nut job. this is all very familiar. so we're seeing him try to discredit woodward and then come out with this calm, that the president was just urging calm which is undermined by the fact that the president not only in that rally, he's tweeting constantly saying things like american children are going to be indoctrinated with

anti-american poisonous sentiment is joe biden is elected. so there is a real struggle to find footing and there is an increasing number of people around the president who want him to stop with this, to try to push back in a less aggressive way. the president said there is a quote, i didn't lie. that's not something they like having out there from the president as a clip. so whether he can move the ball on this and try to pivot elsewhere remain toes be seen, but they're very concerned because people are voting, we're very close to the election, and any other week, like this, as we get closer, is worse for him. and one other thing they're doing is trying to preempt anything else coming out, saying this is what the left and it's the left wing media and their allies are going to try to do. there will be another woodward book, another atlantic story

every week to try and buy into his argument that it should be ignored and it's not true. coming up on "morning joe," live pictures from lower manhattan where a moment of silence will be held a short time from now on this 19th anniversary of the 9/11 attack. we'll have live coverage of that, straight ahead on "morning joe." ge of that, straight aadhe on "morning joe. who is usaa made for? it's made for this guy a veteran who honorably served and it's made for her she's serving now we made it for all branches and all ranks

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that's right. motown, we love motown. michigan gave us motown, gave us the mustang. >> motang. that was president trump taking his shot at pronouncing motown aftersaying how much he loved motown. >> by the way, that was actually the drink of the astronauts. >> wow, tang, motown, there's a lot to stew there.

in another revelation, president trump is said to have boasted that he protected crown prince saudi salman after the death khashoggi. trump told woodward, i saved his ass adding, i was able to get congress to leave him alone. i was able to get them to stop. trump added that saudi arabia spend billions of dollars on u.s. products. he stressed mbs's claim that he's innocent. although u.s. intelligence and other foreign intelligence agencies have concluded otherwise. wow.

joining us now, activist, author and host of the podcast angry americans paul rizov, founder of iraq and afghanistan veterans of america and a retired first army lieutenant and republican strategist to the lincoln project, suzanne del percio joins us. >> i know your concern is not yourself, first and foremost. it's people that you have served with, colleagues, those that have, like you, given their lives and dedicated to defending this country. i am curious what you and your

brothers and sisters in arms have thought about the president denigrating the military leadership and denigrating even the memory of the war dead. >> let's start with the fact that we're in the midst of 9/11 remembrances and we can all remember where we were. i was in the pentagon on the side of the pentagon that was hit by the aircraft. and i watched the aircraft hit the side of the pentagon. what was going through my mind was that this was going to be a moment where the u.s. military was going to have to stand and deliver. so you can drop a plum line, joe, to your question to today, those, for example, young, volunteers in iraq, in afghanistan, in syria were still

on the front lines for us. so when i hear the president denigrate military service, someone who had a very questionable medical deferment, bone spurs, to get out of the vietnam war and denigrate those who take up the mantle, who wear the cloth of the nation and go forward, it hurts. i'll close by saying senior military officers, i know these current generals and admirals well. many of them were working for me on my team as supreme allied commander in nato, notably general mark millie, then a two star, general mcconville, the chief staff of the army, admiral mike gilday was a one star on my team. i know them. i know they're character. they are the last people in the world who want to start a war to make the arms industry happy. no one hates war like a soldier or a -- >> so -- yeah.

yeah. so let me -- i'm sure paul has the same thoughts. actually, paul, let me ask you what are your thoughts? what do you think of all those on who sack phase and decided to dedicate their lives to defending this country after 9/11? i was a young lieutenant, i had just been commissioned that summer in the new york army national guard. when i reflect on it now, 19 years later, i think about my 5-year-old kid. and i woke up this morning and he knows this day is fire fieder's day. this is a day that every firefighter is out, there are fire trucks all across new york and america and it's a day when we celebrate the best of what

this country is all about. so it was obviously, you know, the darkest day i ever experienced, but it was a time of the sharpest brightness i've ever seen. we faced an unimaginable threat. we could see unite our country and we blew et now with the pandemic and the same way we did around 9/11. so we say never forget, but we really want to never forget, let's learn the stories and the lessons of 9/11 and we hope that is what folks take away for from. >> you've been focused on the veterans of the wars that flowed out of this terrible day. 19 years ago, you ran iava for a decade or so. what do you want to say today about not just what happened on

september 11, 2001, but the fact that firefighters are still dieing, almost every day from the effects of working the pile, for example, and we'll hear more about that coming up in just a few minutes. and obviously the effects of war, not just not who died in iraq and afghanistan, but those who suffered wounds that follow them to had day? >> war is hard. it's depleting. it's not easy. i was a part of the invasion where they said we were going to be greeted as liberators in iraq. but the reality is we were attacked, it was war and we needed leadership to prepare us for what was to come. and that is a lesson we need to remember now.

so we can get through it and i think folks need to remember that now in this pandemic. even if trump won't tell you that, won't level with you, we can step up. and if political leaders won't stup up for eerth party, we're going to have to step up as citizens. but if we take the spirit of that day, that can be a light that guides us through this time, too. >> well said. american airlines flight 11, that tower would collapse about an hour and a half later. we just saw vice president joe biden and jill biden, the two new york senators talking with them, chuck schumer and kierstin

gillibrand. you spend your life around the men and women who fought in the wars that came after this day. what are the thoughts they have about not what happened that day necessarily, but all the days that followed it, the brothers and sisters that they lost, the injuries that they suffered, and the impact, the lasting impact almost 20 years later of that day? >> i think pride. i think our military, our veterans so well represented by paul, our retirees, our active duty, every one of them, wherever they are and find themselves on a political spectrum are proud. and by the way, i want to make one other point about this day. don't forget that our allies, our partners, our friends around the world, how they reacted. this is the only time the nato treaty was actually switched closed, article 5, we had british ships, german aircraft appear and then they followed to us afghanistan.

there are brothers and sisters who wear the clothe of other nations, as well, who came and supported us. all of us feel pride in responding. >> i don't know if we can turn this up, but we are watching right now the commemoration 19 years later of the attack on the world trade center, 9/11. we will be opening the moment of silence at 8:46 a.m. to mark the exact time american airlines flight 11 crashed into the north face of the north tower. it would take only seconds for new york police and fire crews to arrive on the scene and begin immediate evacuations. at 9:03, united airlines flight 175 crashed into the south tower. it collapsed 56 minutes later.

at 9:37, hijackers on american airlines flight 77 crashed into the western side of the pentagon. 189 people were killed in that attack. 64 on board the plane. 125 inside the building. at 10:03, after passengers and crew of hijacked united airlines flight 93 learned what was happening on the ground, they heard it all and they fought back. they crashed the plane. they rushed into the cockpit, crashing the plane into an open field in is shanksville, pennsylvania. at 10:28, 102 minutes after being struck by flight 11, the north tower collapsed. 2,977 people were killed in the attacks. thousands more injured. president trump will attend the

memorial in shanksville this morning. former vice president biden will attend the ceremony in new york city. we just saw him there with his wife, dr. jill biden. and will visit the memorial in shanksville later today. there are some changes as a result of the coronavirus, but the commemoration, as always, happens right now.

>> gordon m. anna jr. >> amiro abad. >> they've begun reading the names of those lost on september 11th. you know, i think about my kids often who -- my two youngest kids who weren't alive on september 11th and try to explain to them exactly what happened on that day. and the pain and the tragedy that so many families felt on that day, but also echoing what paul said. and it's so hard to explain to

somebody that wasn't there, that wasn't alive at the time, paul talked about the sharpest brightness. .and it's hard to explain how vivid that time was, not only for those in new york city who remember that day where the skies over manhattan were the bluest and the most vivid they had ever remembered in their life. and it was the same across this country. just a sharpness, a vividness and a patriotism. i was in pensacola, flags draped from anything that would hold an american flag, hearing the stories later of what happened on flight 93, they crashed in shanksville, pennsylvania, todd

beamer and a group of americans in the back of the plane hearing what had happened, picking up the telephone, talking to an operator. asking her to say the lord's prayer with him and asking her to tell his family that he loved her and then turning to those other americans in the back of the plane making their plan to save thousands of others from the possibility of death and then saying let's roll and beginning the first counter attack against these heinous, heinous crimes against humanity that were launched by al qaeda and osama bin laden. willie and mika, i know that this day meant so much to you

all, as well. and you saw firsthand the pain, but also the extraordinary american spirit that came out of this tragedy. this tragedy. >> yeah, joe, we had -- i grew up in a suburban town in new jersey not far from new york city. we had 12 people from our town die in the towers. one of the enduring images of this commuter town, and i can still see the images in my mind because i wasn't living in new york, but my father did a piece about it for cbs is of the cars that these men and women parked at the train station to hop on new jersey transit and go through the daily ritual of catching an early train down to wall street and the cars stayed there for several days. and that was the image that they weren't coming home. and this morning i'm texting with some of them. one of them was my next door neighbor. her daughter was my friend since

i was in kindergarten and lost her mother in the tower. we have family friends, and how many of those families are there in washington, in the new york area, people who were on those planes from all over the country feeling that again today. mika, i think now 19 years later you think about it less often, but when you do think about it, it's no less painful. it's no less horrific, and your heart breaks no less for all of those families who never got to see their loved ones again. >> when i think about it, willie, two piercing images come to my mind. seeing people jumping from the towers and seeing families looking for their family members for weeks after. i remember after several weeks of covering it, i finally went home, and i rushed to my daughter's school. my daughters were 3 and 5 at the time. and i remember breaking down and

holding them so close because i couldn't believe that i could go home to them when there were so many families who didn't go home to their children after 9/11. and the second is interviewing these firefighters in the school way down very close to the towers before the second tower fell. and one firefighter told me on the air to tell his wife that he loved her, which he did, but the look on his face as he turned away and walked back in with many other firefighters, they knew. they knew chances were they weren't going home. but they did it. those are my two piercing memories that cut deep. >> and this image we just showed of firefighters in front of the skeletal remains of the towers. obviously, one of the iconic photos of that tragic time.

but, willie, i think if i could find a picture that encapsulated what i think of an american hero, it would be that face of the firefighter walking up the stairs, staring straight into the camera lens while everybody else was rushing downstairs. he was calmly walking up those stairs. he knew to his death, most likely, to try to save anybody that he could. >> yeah, and there are stories and accounts of firefighters taking care with every last person. someone who was injured who needed to be helped out, moving slower than they would have liked to. some of them not making it out, but they did it because that's their job. and then they stayed on that pile, as paul knows all too

well. they stayed on that pile for months and months. and we want to talk more about those heroes. joining us now, attorney michael barish whose law firm represents thousands of 9/11 survivors, responders and victims' families. michael, good morning. 19 years later, you have dedicated your time to helping people who suffered after 9/11, who suffered on that day. what can you tell us about first responders, let's begin there, who, as i said a moment ago, continue to die from what they breathed in on that pile. the day will come not far from now when more firefighters will have died from helping on the pile than who died on that day. and there were 343 of them in the new york city fire department who died that day. >> willie, thanks for having me back. it's an honor to be with you guys. in fact, more people have now died of 9/11 illnesses since

9/11 than died on 9/11. think about that. and it's because of the toxic dust. they were all exposed to these carcinogens, and now with the coronavirus, the 9/11 community in particular is so vulnerable because if you have had copd or asthma, which are two of the most common of the respiratory illnesses, or if you've been decimated by cancer and had to have chemotherapy, your immune system is shot. and not a day goes by without one of my clients dying. it's so heartbreaking. >> susan del persio. you are a new yorker. what are your thoughts as you see these images? >> i've been thinking about 9/11 especially since tuesday when the memorial foundation had their annual benefit had to be virtual. and what hit me so hard was how much we came together immediately following. watching the workers go down to the site. watching people from all around

the country come in and help and thinking that we were united as a country. and it stands in such stark contrast of where we are today. we still had all the first responders coming to new york in march and april and for months to come. but it's different now and we're dealing with -- it's killing hundreds of thousands of people and we're not united. i look at the images, and i think about going down to the site two days after on september 13th wanting to help. and then having to force to kind of run for cover as the building they thought was coming down. and realizing that there was nothing to do at that site. i didn't have the skill-set if you will. so i went down and helped out at the piers as they were getting certain events together to -- like at yankee stadium for the country to kind of come

together. and the people and the patriots that we saw going through and what they were going to do for our country. and they should never be forgotten. >> amen. amen. >> paul you have a question for michael? >> i do. michael, thanks for your leadership. you know, i suffer from the 9/11 exposures like so many others. i'm glad you're putting that out on front. there's a hashtag, my friends are dying, that this is not over and we're losing friends every single day. so many others are critical. my family knows, i'm probably going to die from something i was exposed to down there. many others will, too. what do you think people can do today if they're motivated to help? >> okay. so sadly, many people believe that the benefits created by congress when they created the free world trade center health program and victim compensation fund, which has now been

extended for 70 years, many people don't understand that it's for the nonfirst responders just as well as the responders. there were 500,000 people in the 9/11 community. 300,000 of them were office workers, yet only 5% of them have registered for the health program. so i think the big problem right now is that people don't realize that they have rights. and if i can quote jon stewart which thank god for jon stewart we got this bill extended, access what you are entitled to. 9/11 didn't end on 9/11. still, so many people need this free health care. they are entitled to the compensation, but they must register and the special measure has done a wonderful thing. she extended the deadline for people that died more than two years ago of 9/11 illness until next july but you must register and sadly so many people don't realize it. if you're out there, spread the

word. >> michael, thank you so much for being with us. greatly appreciate it. admiral, we'd like to turn this over to you for the last minute and get your thoughts, not only on this day but the countless american heroes that decided to defend their country, leave their comfortable life in the united states and go overseas after 9/11. >> these heroes, first responders, police officers, civilians who stood and delivered in all of those venues, the todd beamers and all of our military. and we ought to remember on this day, again, 9/11, you can drop a plum line from that day to these heroes who still walk among us in all of those professions, dealing with the pandemic at home, but who are also in afghanistan, who are in syria, who are on forward patrol, who

are deployed on ships. all of them volunteers. all of them who care so deeply for this country. they are the hope of our future. and i am very optimistic about america when i see their spirit and we should celebrate that even in the midst of recognizing the pain and the tragedy of 19 years ago. >> thank you, admiral. that does it for us this morning. stephanie ruhle picks up the coverage right now. hi there. i'm stephanie ruhle. it's friday, september 11th, and this morning, americans will be taking time to remember one national crisis as they are living through another. throughout this important hour, we'll be watching live events in new york, washington and shanksville, pennsylvania. and pausing for moments of silence to remember the nearly 3,000 people who lost their lives 19 years ago