pandemic was declared. about 195,000 americans are now dead from the disease. and about six and a half million have been infected. and both of those figures continue to climb at startling rates. schools around the country are back in session, a growing number of which are forced to remote learning again, due to new covid cases. at least six teachers have died from the disease since the school year started. including a 28-year-old third grade teacher and a 34-year-old special education teacher. and now, in a series of recorded interviews with "the washington post's" bob woodward, for his new book, president donald trump admitted, in realtime, as early as february, that he knew about the severity of covid-19 and what the country was about to face. and what did he do about it? he decided to lie to the american public, and do little to defend us from what he knew would come. >> it goes through air, bob. that's always tougher than the touch. you know, the touch.

you don't have to touch things, right? but the air. you just breathe the air. that's how it's passed. and so, that's a very tricky one. that's a very delicate one. it's also more deadly than your, you know, your -- even your strenuous flus. this is more deadly. this is five per -- you know, this is 5%, versus 1% and less than 1%. you know? so, this is deadly stuff. now, it's turning out it's not just old people, bob. just today and yesterday, some startling facts came out. it's not just old -- older people. to plenty of young people. i wanted to -- i wanted to always play it down. i still like playing it down. >> yes. >> because i don't want to create a panic. >> february 7th of this year. despite saying that covid-19 wasn't real, that it was a democrat-created hoax, in his words. that it was contained. that you don't need to wear a mask. that it was comparable to the seasonal flu.

that children are almost immune. all of those things, and more. those were deadly lies. donald trump knew, all along, what we were up against. and yet, he chose a path that made and continues to make the situation dramatically worse. a path which directly led to more americans getting sick and dying, when it could have been avoided. this isn't hyperbole. it's not an overreaction. take, for example, the recent motorcycle rally in sturgis, south dakota. the governor of south dakota is following donald trump. she's fallen in line with the lies. she allowed the rally to proceed, with nearly half a million participants. see any masks in that crowd? let's be hospital. prior to the rally, south dakota was not on the coronavirus hot spot radar but people descended on it for the sturgis motorcycle rally. it's a big, annual rally. and over last two weeks, the state has reported the nation's second highest number of covid-19 cases per capita. one study linking the callie ra

more than a quarter million cases across the country. so why did trump do this? why did he take this course of action? >> i'm a cheerleader for this country. i love our country. and i don't want people to be frightened. i don't want to create panic, as you say. but we don't want to -- we don't want to instill panic. we don't want to jump up and down, and start shouting that we have a problem that is a tremendous problem. scare everybody. >> trump says he didn't want to overreact. he didn't want to create panic. he didn't want to squacare anyo which is especially ludicrous since trump's entire mo is to use scare tactics. to overreact. to create panic. he's done it his entire presidency. the muslim ban. the situation with north korea. tafs on allies. tariffs on foes. his wall on the southern border. threatening canada, of all places. his entire re-election campaign

with its focus on race and culture wars. we could go on the rest of the show just listing the ways trump tries to invoke fear in people by overreacting and creating panic. but he drew the line on warning americans against a deadly virus with the potential to trigger a global pandemic. that was a bridge too far, for him. perhaps, because the panic and fear from that couldn't benefit him. so he shrank back from what is undoubtedly the biggest national security threat faced during donald trump's entire time in office. by the way, that's coming from his own national security adviser, robert o'brien, who according to "the washington post" from excerpts of wood ward'war ward's book relayed that message to trump way back on january 28th. it's september the 12th, now. meanwhile, the white house has responded to trump's downplaying of the threat posed by the pandemic by saying he didn't do that at all. our government is saying that our ears are lying to us. the politicization of the

pandemic. the amount of confusion and distrust that trump and his white house has created about the biggest health scare of our lifetimes is shocking. and it's not going to get better anytime soon because we are still left in the hands of donald trump, who has taken to promoting a vaccine by election day. >> they're doing vaccines, right now. they're very close to having the answer. and i think they'll be very safe and very effective. and i think we can do it by november 1st. sometime during october. >> all right. dr. fauci doesn't seem to agree with that. he says, as we continue to learn on a daily basis, we're going to have a president who focus -- focuses solely on his re-election and politicizes absolutely everything, at the expense of all of us and this country. joining me now, former secretary of health and human services in the obama administration, kathle kathleen sebelous.

since the last time we talked, we've learned more. and this is -- i'm sorry, you were the secretary -- the governor of kansas. i apologize. since the last time you and i talked, we've learned more about how much the president knew and how early he knew it. it's actually surprising that he gave this interview to bob woodward, on february 7th, because it would be fair to believe, on january 28th, when his national security adviser warned him about how serious a national security threat this would be. and on february 7th, we were still in early days. and you could almost write off the fact that someone might not have taken this seriously. but we would assume, and you can tell us if this is true, that the president would've had better information than any of us. and it turns out that he did. and that information was really important and he made the decision to keep it from americans. >> well, he did, ali, and it's -- it's terrifying. lies like this have cost lives of americans. they've cost livelihoods of

americans. and not only did he not tell the truth, but he failed to act. he -- you know, i went back. yesterday was a commemoration of 9/11. one of the worst attacks on america. 3,000 lives were lost that day. and thousands of others have died, since then. i went back and read what president george w. bush said to the public. if you talk about not wanting to panic people, that's a moment that you don't want panic. what he did was acknowledge what had happened, talk about it in very stark and serious terms. tell the truth to people about the attack. but then, immediately, say he was going to mobilize all of the resources of the united states to make sure people were safe and secure. he would make sure that the terrorists were brought to justice. that's the way you reassure people. president trump knew the truth. instead of telling people the truth. instead of mobilizing a national

action plan to immediately get the right tests out, quickly. immediately, start to mobilize ppe so that we protected our frontline workers and most vulnerable citizens. immediately, use the government defense act to begin to produce goods that we didn't have. he basically washed his hands, and began to tell absolute lies to the american public. which have created the chaos that we have, today. where we have done worse than any country on earth dealing with the coronavirus. and it, still, is wreaking havoc. it's still killing americans, and it's still restricting our jobs and economy. it's -- it's really a disgraceful act from the president of the united states. >> and it's -- it's important you mention 9/11. we just marked 9/11 yesterday. the 19th anniversary. and the thing about -- you

mentioned how george bush reacted to that. and you can look back at franklin roosevelt. and you can look at the speeches that winston churchill gave to parliament in 1940. nobody didn't tell the truth. nobody said there's nothing to see here. they said this is bad. this is serious. and we will win. we will come together. we will marshal the resources of the united states government, and we will overcome the threat because we can and we will. why did he just lie? why did he walk away from it? why did he decide this is -- this is not a thing i'm going to do? >> the only thing i can, possibly, figure is that president trump made a very calculated decision. that he did not want to tamper with the stock market, where his rich allies and friends were making lots of money. he didn't want to do anything that could possibly upset the economy that he felt was his major asset to sell to the

american public, going into the election. so he made a very specific decision to lie to the american public. and by lying, he was hoping that he could get lucky. that this actually would just go away, as he continued to tell people. that, when it got warm, it would just go away. that, by doing nothing, it would go away. by not testing, we wouldn't determine how many cases there really were. so he wasn't a cheerleader. he was liar in chief. and through those lies, again, failed to mobilize the action of the federal government. he left governors on their own. he left people on their own. he -- and we're still in the same place. we still have people going back to school, without the necessary ppe. or still, a number of nursing homes. we still don't have rapid-turnaround tests, as businesses are being shoved into reopening. i mean, we -- we are still eight months into this and dealing with many of the same issues

because this president has still failed to have a national plan to keep americans safe and secure. that's what a cheerleader for the country does. tell the truth. and then, mobilize action. >> well, fortunately, there have been some people, including you, telling us the truth, from the beginning. and many americans have had the good fortune to follow that advice. kathleen sebelius, good to see you again. katherine is the former secretary of health and human services under president obama and former governor of kansas. joining me now is the director of national institutes of health, dr. francis collins. he appeared before the senate health committee last week regarding the status of covid-19 vaccine development. and he is someone, to whom we can turn to for accurate information. dr. collins, i -- the concept of vaccine development cannot be reduced to bumper stickers and tweets because there's a lot of complexity. there are lots of vaccines out there for trial. there are tests about safety.

and there are tests about efficacy. and then, there are issues about distribution and who gets what, when. so, in your esteemed opinion, because you think about these things and you have the latest research, where are we really? >> well, i think it's fair to say we've moved forward with vaccine development and testing, at a pace that's never previously been achieved by an enormous amount of energy and effort and resources being put forward by our nation's best scientists. both, in the public sector and the private sector. working together, in unprecedented ways. and i think you could say, at this point, that things are on a pretty good path with, now, phase three trials underway in the united states for three different approaches to this. although, one of them is currently on a pause that we might want to talk about. that involves enrolling 30,000 individuals for each of these trials. and then, looking to see, in the real world, does the vaccine provide protection? and is it safe?

and we are on the path towards determining an answer to that. and i think most of us, including myself and dr. fauci, who's my colleague, who is the most expert in infectious disease, would say we're reasonably likely to have at least one vaccine that's judged safe and effective by the end of 2020. but to get it much sooner than that would be, perhaps, a bit startling. we wanted this to happen as quickly as possible. people are dying. we're approaching 200,000 deaths in our country. >> this -- just -- let's be clear about why we want this to be as careful and deliberate as possible. because there are lots of people out there saying, please, get us a vaccine as soon as you can. the problem with a vaccine, if we don't go through all the protocols which, to regular people, might seem overly rigorous and -- and -- and difficult. is so that we don't make people sicker, by giving them a vaccine. or we don't make them sick with something else or we don't kill them, inadvertently.

>> exactly. we're talking about giving a vaccine to currently healthy people. you should have a very low tolerance, therefore, for anything that's a serious side effect. okay. if somebody has a sore arm. we can probably work with that. somebody gets a temporary, low-grade fever, we can work with that. but nothing more serious than that would be appropriate for a vaccine that you are talking about giving to hundreds of millions of people. which is why you do these very large-scale tests, trials, to find out is it safe? and does it work? and i just want to reassure everybody who is listening. we are not going to make sure shortcuts in that assessment of safety and evefficacy. this is in a place where there are multiple, different layers of oversight of this. to make sure that nothing gets pushed through, unless it meets the highest standards. probably, the highest standards that ever have been applied for a vaccine, are going to be applied in this situation. >> i so want to believe you, dr. collins. and i do believe you and i do trust you. and i do trust the national institutes of health. and i do trust public health

officials. i have never asked a question about a vaccine that i was told that i needed to get. i travel a lot. i get immunizations for other diseases. i've never asked anyone. the doctors told me it's going to hurt for a couple days. but i trust that it is safe. there is something happening today in the politicization of this discussion that, for the first time, will make me ask three times. i'm going to call you. i'm going to call laurie garrett. i'm going to call manuel. and then, i'm going to ask my doctor three times whether it's safe to take it. >> isn't it unfortunate we've arrived at that situation? we have in this country, such a terribly fractured situation. gosh, you would really think americans could be together but that's not the way we seem to be, at the moment. i hope we can kind of put aside all of that emotion. and realize this is about saving lives. let's look at the data, people. and when i look at those polls that say less than half of americans, at the present time, would take a vaccine if we had it. that's deeply troubling.

and again, i hope that is a temporary view, based upon a lot of political noise. and that, when we actually have the data, people will look at it and go, okay, i can see. this is what we know about this. that seems like something i'd want to take advantage of. you know, this is not over. covid-19, if we don't end up with a large proportion of the population vaccinated, this is going to go on a long, long time. is that what we want, as a nation? if we have a chance to put this in the rear-view mirror, shouldn't we do that? >> yep. it's amazing you and i are going to be on tv dealing with that other problem next. the people who won't take it because they have become distrustful of the system. talk to me about the fact that of the 150 or so candidates in the beginning, we've got three that are looking pretty serious right now. but one has been paused. why? >> so this is, in fact, something i think ought to reassure people about the attention to safety. a single patient, in this case, a woman in britain, who was one of the volunteers for the vaccine that's being sponsored

by astrazeneca. developed an unusual neurological problem called transverse myelitis. now, with tens of thousands of people getting the vaccine, it's entirely possible this was just something that was going to happen, anyway. but you want to be sure about that. and so, in an abundance of caution, that trial has been put on clinical hold. no more people are being enrolled, until they look very carefully across the uk, south africa, brazil, and the u.s., where this vaccine is being tested, to see is there any hint that anybody else had something like this? and until we know that, for sure, that vaccine is on hold. one case. so isn't that actually -- >> which is the way it's supposed to be. >> yes. and it is happening. and again, no political interference is going to prevent that kind of scrutiny. that's how we do things right. >> as i say every time i talk to you, doctor, i hope you're right. i want you to be right. and you'll keep guiding us through it. thank you, sir. dr. francis collins is the

director of the national institutes of health. as if it wasn't already abundantly clear, the president has something of a disregard for the truth. it's laid out in a damning, new whistle-blower report from a former homeland security official. how trump put our national security at risk for his political agenda. when "velshi" continues. introducing stocks by the slice from fidelity. now you can trade stocks and etfs for any amount you choose instead of buying by the share. all with no commissions. stocks by the slice from fidelity. get your slice today. stocks by the slice from fidelity. start your day with secret. secret stops sweat 3x more than ordinary antiperspirants. with secret, you're unstoppable. no sweat! try it and love it or get your money back.

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this week, we, the american people, found out that trump and his administration may have gone further than simply getting key federal agencies -- gutting key federal agencies and dismantling elements of our postal service. they may have made a series of decisions that put our national security in fundamental danger. according to a damning, new whistle-blower complaint, the administration of the so-called law-and-order president has buried or hidden intelligence reports warning of meddling on

our election, because the information, quote, made the president look bad. that's a real thing. the complaint filed by brian murphy. he's the former head of intelligence and analysis at the department of homeland security. full of allegations of event, after event, where trump -- the trump administration has allegedly crossed the line, holding back, or altering intelligence for its political purpose. in the report, murphy says that officials, like dhs deputy secretary, ken cucinelli, asked him to repeatedly alter information, in order to fit the trump agenda. secretary chad wolf asked murphy to stop providing assessments on the threat of russian interference in the united states, and focus, instead, on interference from china and iran. murphy also alleges that he was directed by both men to alter the domestic terrorism threat assessment and to downplay threats from white supremacists, while being asked to add information on antifa, in order to match trump's rhetoric and public claims. imagine this.

all of this information should deeply concern you. not only is president trump using his office to manipulate intelligence, that he appears to be doing it, solely, in pursuit of his own political agenda. he is using our federal government and, more importantly, our security apparatus, in a way that endangers american citizens. for their part, dhs has contradicted murphy with dhs spokesperson telling nbc news, quote, we flatly deny that there is any truth to the merits of mr. murphy's claim. unfortunately for us, the one backstop we have to this kind of behavior, congress, has at least partly decided it is no longer worth its time to try to preserve our government and keep the president in check. instead, people like senators ron johnson and chuck grassley are continuing to waste their time and energy on an investigation of former vice president biden. joining me, now, to discuss this is michael schmidt.

"new york times" correspondent, msnbc contributor, and author of the new book, donald trump versus the united states, independeinside the struggle to stop a president. thank you for being with us. couple of questions here. this ron johnson/chuck grassley investigation. it's fed by information from a guy that the treasury department has just sanctioned in ukraine, as being a pro-russian agent. where, actually, there are senators running an investigation based on information from somebody the u.s. government has identified as working for russia. >> correct. this person was sanctioned this week, for providing this information to essentially, as you were laying out, meddle in the election. so they were taking information, similarly to 2016, from someone that was trying to impact the dialogue and discourse, here. the disinformation campaign of 2016 continuing to today. as i lay out in the book, what happened in 2016 was the

greatest intelligence failure, since the september 11th, 2001, attacks. but different from those, from what happened in the aftermath of that, in this instance, there has been no whole-of-government, remaking approach on how to deal with this problem. there's no new department created to stop russian disinformation or russian election meddling. instead, we're largely at the same footing, if not worse footing, than we were coming into 2016. and on top of that, it appears like the federal government is not putting out all of the information that it knows about this, other at least intelligence reports that would illuminate this are not -- are not being fully disclosed. and on top of that, there is now looks like a spigot of information that would go from the intelligence community to congress, in the form of briefings, has been stopped as well. so there is -- there is a gap within our own government, of the understanding of what's

going on. >> it may be more serious than that, according to an article in the atlantic, from april. this is before all of this information that we've learned in the last two weeks, including the reporting from the atlantic about what donald trump said about our troops. i want to read you a quote from this article by george packer in which he says trump has largely succeeded in making the executive branch work on his personal behalf. he hasn't done it by figuring out how to operate the bureaucratic levers of power or by channeling a popular groundswell into government action. he's done it by punishing perceived enemies, co-opting craven allies, and driving out career officials of competence and integrity. the result is a thin layer of political loyalists, on top of a crowd of bureaucracy. those are -- those are well-written words, that contain in them, michael, a remarkable warning about what is happening to our democracy. and what is happening to the

bro bureaucracy that is supposed to insulate us from the whims of policy, at the top. >> look. institutions, typically, mimic the people at the top of them. in this case, the executive branch of the government is -- looks like it is mimicking, on intelligence and law enforcement, what the president desires. and this is just an example of the president's extraordinary use of power. how he uses his positions, in ways that are very, very different than his predecessors. and in doing that, as i write in the book, he is testing the government and those around him, in ways that we have never really seen. for much of our time in this country, we have focused on how our presidents use power and what that says about them. that -- i cover that, in the book. but what trump does, what is extraordinary here and unique, is that he tests those around him to see whether they will go along with him or not. and they're forced to make a decision. whether they will help the president, try and hinder him,

or leave. and this is a discussion that these people have had with themselves. these containers around the president. these people who have to make a decision, about whether to stop him. it's a discussion that has gone on. from whether it was jim comey at the beginning of the administration. or if it's anthony fauci, today, trying to figure out whether it's better or not for him to stay in his position, to be there. or, you know, how -- how do you -- how do you deal with a president, who is trying to bend washington to his will? >> yeah. fauci sort of just stays at the edge of the tent, right? he's still on the inside of it, able to be critical of it. but he's probably made some decision. there's some calculus that says it's better to be on the edge of the tent, on the inside, than on the outside. what a remarkable decision that competent leaders need to make. michael, thanks for joining us. always good to see you. washington correspondent with "the new york times" and msnbc's national security contribute ever. and an author. "donald trump versus the united states, inside the struggle to stop a president."

vice president pence is reportedly attending an event hosted by a couple conspiracy theorists. but first, yesterday, the nation marked the 19th anniversary of the 9/11 terror attacks. the death toll from that day continues to rise. in the last year, 27 former new york city firefighters died of illnesses related to their rescue and recovery efforts at ground zero in 2001. the fdni added their names to a growing memorial. a total of 227 firefighters and many more first responders were killed by 9/11-related illnesses, since the attack.

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i got this mountain bike for only $11. dealdash.com, the fair and honest bidding site. an ipad worth $505, was sold for less than $24; a playstation 4 for less than $16; and a schultz 4k television for less than $2. i won these bluetooth headphones for $20. i got these three suitcases for less than $40. and shipping is always free. go to dealdash.com right now and see how much you can save. the associated press reported this week that on monday, vice president mike pence and other trump re-election officials are scheduled to attend a campaign fundraiser in bozeman, montana.

republican national committee chair mcdaniel will be there, too. nothing unusual about that, right? except, this next part. the event is being hosted by a couple, karen and michael borland, who are qanon sympathizers. they regularly post qanon material online, share qanon memes and retweet posts from qanon twitter accounts. they declined to comment. now, qanon is a far-right conspiracy theory that developed and spread largely online. alleging that there is a shadowy kabal of satan-worshipping democrats, all the while, operating an underground child sex trafficking ring across the globe. qanon also rejects facts surrounding the assassination of jfk and the attacks of 9/11. and throws racism in for good measure.

asked about the group from which he refuses to distance himself. >> during the pandemic, the qanon movement has been -- appears to be gaining a lot of followers. the -- this theory is this belief that you are secretly saving the world from this satanic cult of pedophiles and cannibals. does that sound like something you are behind? >> well, i haven't -- i haven't heard that. but is that supposed to be a bad thing? or a good thing? >> now, this would be no laughing matter, if qanon was some fringe group. but it is, somehow, insinuated its way into the republican party. and no one in that party or what's left of it seems particularly concerned. qanon. a violent, racist, conspiracy theory, has the ear of the vice president of the united states. the tacet approval, if not more, of the president. and will likely have a home in the united states congress, come january.

and that's if things go their way on election night. qanon supporters have been accused of committing violent crimes. and well, if democrats are child-molesting demons, you can't let them take the controls of power, can you? a few weeks ago, on this show, i said, quote, a fair number of republicans are playing footsy, end quote, with this fringe movement. but this is much more serious than footsy. now, you probably aren't a qanon subscriber because i'm a kenyan-born muslim. so i'm not exactly the sort that qanon members would trust to deliver the news. but, chances are, you do know someone or work with someone or are related to someone who believes qanon lies. or someone who is planning to vote for donald trump, who gives this dangerous cult its fuel. every american planning to vote for donald trump on november 3rd should know that they are, in fact, voting for lies, fear mongering, and, now, like a cherry on top, support of a crazy, racist cult. america is far from perfect. but until now, being influenced

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presidential election. tech giant microsoft wrote publicly on thursday that the company's cybersecurity experts detected an increase in hacking attacks as election day looms. it says these hackers are specifically working for russia, china, and iran. now, microsoft says that this cyberactivity, quote, makes clear that foreign activity groups have stepped up their efforts targeting the 2020 election, as has been anticipated. the report is the largest public warning, to date. and it puts all involved in the democratic process on high alert for, yet another, similar situation to 2016. went on to say russian government hackers have targeted at least 200 organizations tied to the 2020 election, including national and state political parties and political consultants working for both republicans and democrats. now, this all comes on the heels of a whistle-blower complaint against the department of homeland security, which alleges that the whistle-blower and other officials were directed to

hold back intelligence on russian election interference to better align with trump's public remarks. both, russia and china have denied they're behind these hacking efforts and as far as we know, the iranian government has, yet, to respond. i know just the people to talk about this. when we lurn, i will be joined by a pair of experts to help sort out what this means, how much of a threat we are looking at, and what can be done to stop it. when the world gets complicated, a lot goes through your mind. with fidelity wealth management, your dedicated adviser can give you straightforward advice and tailored recommendations. that's the clarity you get with fidelity wealth management.

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foreign agitators, once again looking to interfere in our election process. microsoft report indicates the hackers are specifically working for russia, china, and iran. this is just the latest in a series of hacker attempts dating back to 2016. something the current administration has done nothing to curtail or negate. continues to raise ongoing questions of why, particularly

when it comes to russia, trump remains inactive on so many fronts. fellow at the alliance for securing democracy and foreign policy research institute. he is author of "messing with the enemy, surviving in a social media world of hackers, terrorists, russians, and fake news." and a disinformation fellow, author of how to lose the information war, russia, fake news, and the future of conflict. good morning. thank you for being with us. nina, let me start with you. people like you and clint have been telling us the entire time, since 2016, this isn't a new version of this. it's a continuation of what we saw last time. the only weird part is that we have had an administration, that has downplayed it, ignored it. now, we're seeing whistle-blower reports that say they deliberately downplayed this, so as to not interfere with the president's messaging. but the bottom line is it has an impact on democracy and voter turnout. >> yeah, that's absolutely right. you know, i think one of the misconceptions about the way

these disinformation campaigns, hacking campaigns, influence campaigns, work is that we think of elections as an end point. but, really, they're an inflexion point. this has never stopped, since 2016. it was going on before 2016. and there's a long history of these types of campaigns, going back to the early 2000s in central and eastern europe. and we have not heeded the warnings. and instead, what we have is parts of the federal government that are, you know, pushing back against actors like russia and china. and the president undercutting that message, at every turn. that's a very scary thing. and we need that recognition, from the very top. not only to telegraph the serious -- seriousness of this to our adversaries but to the american voters, some of whom still think that, you know, foreign interference is a hoax. it's not. >> and the bottom line is, at this point, clint, in september. september, the 12th, 2020, 52 days to the election, the administration's not going to change course and do something about it. so what does happen?

>> yeah. it's interesting because i think dhs, to a degree, has tried to defend, particularly the election systems working with states. and other parts of the government are working very hard to defend the election. but it's really hard to do if the main conspiracy that'house. that's about mail-in ballots and voter fraud. if you watch what the kremlin is putting out, what the russians are saying, what we're seeing discovered in some of these fringe outtlaets halets that ha connected with the kremlin, they're claiming election-rigged voter fraud. entire purpose of this over the long run is to make confidence in the u.s. democratic system, elected officials and institutions vanish inside the united states. it's to create widespread apathy. and if you look at what they just did, we just found out this week about, you know, up to 200 hacking attempts, the russians are saying we are committed to this election. we're not worried about your defenses. and there's only one reason to believe that they're not worried

is because a lot of the political officials deny that that influence is even going on and won't even let our own officials, our tax-paid officials talk about russian interference. >> you know, you're quoted in an article "the new yorker" with the headline that asks the question that i think all of my viewers want to nope. is russian meddling as dangerous as we think? in it you say unwlless we mitige our own issues, we will continue to be a malicious target for any maligned actor. when the american public is full of hate and distrust, it's not hard for trols troels to of tro stir up zis satisfaction. part of it is we're saying the table that invites this information on to it.

>> you're slubl rigabsolutely r that builds off of what clint was talking about. when the president is airing these conspiracy theories from the highest office in the land, that are gives russia so much fodder for its disinformation campaigns. it's important to remind that everyone russia is not creating disinformation out of thin air, it's using preexisting fissures in our society, of which there are many right now, and manipulating them, exploiting them, amplifying them to pit us against one another and ultimately have us disengage from the democratic process. it's a very scary thing. and, you know, whether it's russia today, china tomorrow, iran in ten years or domestic disinformers, we need to understand that disinformation campaigns, this is not a partisan issue, this is something that everyone should be really worried about. because it's up to americans to choose our leaders, not foreign interference, not those, you know, sitting in the

administrations of our adversaries. that's something we've lost sight of and until we mitigate those internal fissures and deal with things like endemic racism and economic inequality, we're going to leave of that attack service open for our adversaries no matter where they are. >> so, clint, pick up on this, because my father's watching and he's going to ask me, what's the connection between microsoft saying that these foreign actors are hacking the accounts potentially of consultants for a political party and the thing that results in achange change vote. we're not talking about people actually hacking ballots or voting machines, although we don't know whether that's happening. but we're talking about something else. we're talking about hacking for the purpose of spreading disinformation and misinformation. >> thanks, ali. oftentimes people get confused about. there's generally two ways of hacking, hacking against the candidates and their campaigns and elected officials, which is designed to take secrets, drop

them out into the news space to drive a negative narrative that influences how people vote. the second phase of harking cki about the electoral process itself. what were they focused on? were they focused on how ballots are being count order if there is election ricking, could they take a stolen email or some sort of document inside these organizations, drop it out right before election day and enrage them, make them not believe in the results? we're not going to know the outcome, it's very unlikely we'll know the outcome on election night this year. i think the real danger is could russian actors just by dropping out information that in a very heated moment essentially drive people to polling places thinking their ballots didn't get counted? thinking they need to surveil elected officials to make sure that they're not being seen rigging the election. it's a totally different scenario from 2016. 2016 the russians hacked dnc, john podesta to drive a

narrative that was negative towards hillary clinton, pro donald trump. this time they're trying to confirm narratives that the u.s. is already saying and try to pull all of us apart based on race, economic lines, religious divides. >> thanks fwochbling yto both o your great work on this issue. clint is the author of messing with the enemy, surviving nay social medin a social media world. nina is the author of thousand lose the information war, russia, fake news, and the future of conflict. thanks to both of you. coming up, or a live update from california where wildfires are raging beyond control. velshi continues after this. d . velshi continues after this. when our daughter and her kids moved in with us...

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we will build a shoppable feed that's so you. no two feeds are alike. this is shopping made genius. download the app and shop in a whole new way. good morning. it is saturday, september the 12th. i'm ali veg shelshi. we are quick li approaching 200,000 americans dead from coronavirus and 6.5 million have been infected. 2 dozen people are dead from the massive group of wildfires raging in the western united states which have destroyed more than a million acres and thousands of homes. the fire burning on federal land north of sacramento, the august complex fire in mendocino

national forest is the largest ever. with 52 days go until election day, president trump is actively engaging in people to participate in voter suppression. no participation needed other than to blindly follow their leader watching over american citizens as they vote. trump is set to host a campaign event in nevada just like several of his recent rallies will break state law on pandemic attendance limits. meanwhile, advise press mike pence is set to host backers of the cqanon theory and how much f a risk the president is. a new from "politico" reveals that the appointed officials at the centers for disease controls demand and received the right to review and seek changes to the cdc's weekly scientific reports charting the progress of the coronavirus pandemic because the agency's scientific reports undermine donald trump's