hey there. i'm joshua johnson. from nbc news world headquarters in new york. the election is 52 days away. new polling out today shows joe biden leading in four battleground states but most of

those leads are within the margin of error. we'll break down the numbers ahead. in about two hours president trump will hold a campaign rally at mindon tahoe airport in nevada a state where the coronavirus case load is inching higher. on monday the president plans to travel to california for a briefing on the historic wildfires there. and peace talks resumed today between the taliban and the afghan government one day after the 19th anniversary of the 9/11 terror attacks. secretary of state mike pompeo is in qatar for the opening ceremony of the negotiations. let us begin with the coronavirus and the president's apparent reasons for downplaying its dangers from the start. he acknowledged what he knew early in the pandemic during a series of interviews with bob woodward. mr. woodward no longer works directly for "the washington post" but the paper obtained the tapes of some of those interviews. >> now it's starting out not just old people, bob, but today

and yesterday some startling facts came out. it's not just older people. plenty of young people. >> exactly. >> to be honest with you -- >> sure, i want you to be >> i wanted to always play it down. i still like playing it down because i don't want to create a panic. >> the u.s. is getting closer to reporting 200,000 u.s. deaths from covid-19. by our count one new death has been reported roughly every minute and a half over the past week in this country. joining us now is democratic congresswoman donna shalala the former secretary of health and human services. her district includes parts of miami, south beach, and southern miami-dade county including the university of miami where she is the former president. congresswoman shalala, welcome. >> thank you very much. it is very nice to see you again. >> like wise. what do you make of this admission by the president in these interviews with bob woodward especially since you were hss secretary? i am especially interested in your perspective on this considering your past in the

federal government. >> the president started by blaming the chinese for withholding information. now it turns out that the president recklessly withheld the information from the american people that could have saved lives. it's unbelievable that he would do that. and his explanation is unacceptable. look at this narrative. he starts off by withholding information. he sends mixed messages. he talks about junk science. he puts misinformation out there and now he is going to a rally in which people are not practicing safe public health. they're not wearing masks. they're not practicing social distancing. this is a disaster made by him. he lies and people die and we just -- it is more than holding

him accountable. it's an american tragedy that is unbelievable of the lack of leadership by the president of the united states and the people around him. >> i wonder what you see happening now particularly in terms of the administration's response to coronavirus? there was a report in politico last night that administration officials interfered with the cdc reports on covid-19 and that the communications aides for hhs demanded the right to review and change the cdc's weekly coronavirus reports in what officials characterize and i am quoting politico now as an attempt to intimidate the report's authors and water down their communications to health professionals. where do you think this leaves hhs in terms of its role in fighting coronavirus? hfrj >> well, it loses its credibility. more importantly, it loses

credibility not only in this country with the american people but around the world. those m.r. reports don't simply go to people and public health officials in this country, tracking the disease, providing new information, but they go to scientists and public health officials around the world. the idea that political hacks would review scientific information and the statement by the spokesperson caputo was simply outrageous. he talked about deep state in the cdc. i mean, those are world class scientists. and i just can't believe this is happening. no administration has ever done what this administration has done to world class scientists and to the science, itself, which this is about life and death. this cannot be politicized.

this disease doesn't know what country it's in, what state it's in, whether the people it's infecting are republicans or democrats, and we needed national leadership and we have not gotten it. we have gotten reckless leadership that has led to unnecessary deaths in our country. it is just so sad. it breaks my heart what they've done to the cdc and hhs. >> i do want to ask you also about since you have been a university administrator several times about the way that universities and colleges are dealing with this. there has been basically every state has reported an outbreak on one college campus or another. i was at the university of miami in my senior year when 9/11 happened. i remember you closing on the campus and you were among the rest of us, very, very upset over what had just happened. what is your thought on what university administrators and leaders should be doing right now in the face of this

pandemic? do you think universities are generally getting it right? are they getting a bad rap? are they going in the wrong direction? how do you see it? >> they're struggling. between their desire to stay open and their desire to keep their students and faculty and staff safe. and all of them have used kind of a mixture. some have simply said we're going online for the fall. the fall semester you'll learn online. some of them have done a hybrid as the university of miami has. the difficulty is it's hard to keep young people from getting together. while i have enormous respect as you well know for young people, it's hard to keep them apart. and even though they understand that they need to wash their hands, wear masks, practice social distancing, it is particularly difficult in places like miami where we've had

community spread. where it is very difficult to keep people safe. so i admire the struggle of the universities. i'm not sure i could do it better. but it's just hard to do what they're trying to do and they've got economics at stake as well. without tuition money many of our universities would be literally bankrupt. so they are struggling with how to continue education for young people, which young people want. i was out talking to university of miami students and students at the other universities in my district and, frankly, they're happy to be back, happy to be away from home. they know what they need to do. whether they will do it is -- you're dealing with young people, and part of college is to get together and learn from each other and play with each other so i think they're

struggling but i also think they're trying to keep to the science. >> especially since in the state of florida bars are allowed to open on monday at 50% capacity. so, please. miami hurricanes, please, please, please do the right thing. florida congresswoman donna shalala, thanks very much. good to see you. >> you're welcome. >> let's continue with our panel for the hour. his new book is called "donald trump versus the united states, inside the struggle to stop a president." good to have you both here tonight. let me start with you. these tapes, a lot has been made of the fallout from the tapes. i am skeptical of the use of the word fallout because i am not sure whether the tangible impacts of the tapes released will show up in the president's viability as a candidate, in policy decisions, compromises

he'll have to make. what is your sense of whether and where there's been fallout from these tapes so far? >> i think it is a good question joshua just what the fallout is. obviously this administration has weathered numerous accusations and scandals and controversies at this point. one thing to think about as we head into the final days of the campaign is this has refocused the president and his aides' attention away from issues they were trying to push on the campaign trail. so that the president and people around him have spent days pushing back or criticizing this reporting, complaining about it. it has also meant the president has been pulled back into a conversation about the virus, about the response and how he has handled it. at a real moment when he and the people around him have been trying to focus attention on economic recovery, public safety

as issues they see better for him heading into re-election. so i think that is the question in terms of fallout is does this reelevate this erin unite at an inopportune time for the president? >> michael, before i get your sense of what the potential fallout might be let's play one more clip from the trump/woodward tapes from february. these interviews were conducted over a long period of time. this is one clip from the interview in february in which the president makes it clear he understands just how virulent and dangerous covid-19 is. >> it goes through air, bob. that is always tougher than the touch. you know, the touch you don't have to touch things right? but the air you just breathe the air and that's how it is passed. that is a very tricky one, a very delicate one. it is also more deadly than your, even your strenuous flus. people don't realize we lose 25,000, 30,000 people a year

here. who ever would think that, right? >> i know. >> what are you able to do for -- >> this morse deadly. this is 5% versus 1% and less than 1% so, you know, this is deadly stuff. >> michael, what is your sense of the fallout. >> well, i think that what we've seen with the president is an unwillingness to change and adapt to washington. in this case there was a pandemic and he didn't want to take a whole of government sort of more conventional approach to it and did look at it as something that if he spoke about differently publicly or tweeted about it he could have an impact that was different. that certainly wasn't the case. from these tapes it is clear that he understood the severity of it but he never wanted to

come back to sort of a typical presidential approach to this and he tried to talk the virus away from the country. and that obviously has had enormous impact and will be something he will have to contend with between now and election day. just pointing out on that there is not a ton of time left to make up between now and then. >> speaking of election day, you've been reporting about nevada. this is the same weekend that the president's got campaign rallies planned there, a rally coming up in about an hour and 45 minutes. there is video of an overflow crowd already at the rally. talk about the background here and why democrats are thinking more about nevada these days. i don't think nevada has gone for a republican for president since 2004 is it? >> yeah, it's been a few years. but hill hill won nevada by a very narrow margin. less than 30,000 votes. it is a state the republicans

have put renewed focus on and the trump campaign as they try to figure out their path they see this as a potential opportunity. get them six electoral votes. could help a little bit if they see losses in other parts of the country. there are some warning signs some democrats are concerned. the biden campaign has been mostly doing a virtual campaign. they say they are putting in a robust effort. but there are concerns about their outreach to latinos, how that is going. and so there is -- there are some democrats a little bit worried about this and you see that the president is spending two days there campaigning both near reno and in las vegas and he is definitely trying to make a play here. >> we'll talk about the outreach to latino voters on both sides of the aisle a little later in the program. let me come back to you with coronavirus in a second because the president said the u.s. is turning a corner with regard to coronavirus.

here is a clip of dr. anthony fauci speaking to nbc's andrea mitchell on andrea mitchell reports about the corner we may or may not be turning. >> we're plateauing around 40,000 cases a day and the deaths are around a thousand. as we enter and, you know, we turn the corner after the labor day weekend, i'm hoping that we do not see a surge in cases as we've seen following the 4th of july and memorial day. what we don't want to see is going into the fall season when people will be spending more time indoors and that's not good for a respiratory borne virus. you don't want to start off already with a baseline that is so high. >> just want to know for you watching the numbers that you just saw of the death toll and infections were as of yesterday when andrea had the conversation with dr. fauci just to be clear. how do you see the impact of this? we heard from congresswoman

shalala what her sense is of how this is affecting the federal fight against coronavirus. what is your sense of how all of this is affecting that fight especially with these tapes having just come out? >> well, i mean, the thing about fauci that i find fascinating in the entire thing is how does he balance knopp upsetting the president with communicating in a way to the public that is providing clear and accurate information? that is a dance that folks have had to do throughout the administration whether it is dating back to the early days of jim comey where comey was not going to bend to the president but fauci has found a way to navigate this and be the voice on this essentially stepping into the void the president has left and the tapes sort of reinforce that. they reinforce the idea that the president allowed this vacuum to happen and did not want to deal

with it in a truthful, head on way and sort of, you know, leading to fauci sort of rising in importance. he would have been important anyway had it been any other president but here he's had additional sort of a special role that's been i think probably historically different. obviously this is all historically unprecedented. >> do you think, michael, anthony fauci really feels any stress? i mean, i've not interviewed dr. fauci in years so i don't know where his head is at now but he seems like one person the administration doesn't want to fire. if you fire dr. fauci that is a bad look immediately. >> yeah. look, donald trump fired his fbi director when his campaign and former national security adviser were under investigation. and the president weathered that and weathered a bunch of other things other presidents wouldn't do and continued to trek on and i think that is the most sort of remarkable thing about trump is that he has not changed the way

he's behaved despite being impeached. the day after robert mueller testified before congress the president picked up the phone and called the ukrainian president and asked him to meddle in the election and to target his rivals. so i can't, you know, i haven't seen a change in the president's behavior at all based on different consequences that he's faced. i don't think you could think anything is off the table. >> stick around. more to discuss in a bit. also much more to come tonight on msnbc. we know this election will be unlike any other. so much so that some states are calling in the national guard for help. that is next. d for help that is next ok everyone, our mission is to provide complete, balanced nutrition for strength and energy.

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the national guard has been busy this year. guardsmen provide security during natural disasters and civil unrest. now they are also working on securing our elections. specifically from cyber threats.

short staffed rural counties are calling on the national guard and its team of cyber security experts. nbc pentagon and national security correspondent courtney kube got an exclusive look at one operation in warrenton county, north carolina. >> what does an actual assessment look like for a county like this? >> this is what yours looks like. this is what the industry best practice should be. and here is what we would do to fix it to get you more in line with what the industry best practices are. >> joining us now with more, what exactly is it that the national guard is doing for supervisors of elections? is this something already in the national guard's wheel house we just don't often talk about? >> so they have, the national guard does have cyber operators. there are about 4,000 of them across the country right now. across the country and in u.s. territories. they do everything from providing infrastructure security, they help with

securing state, basic state cyber issues. so many of these people are not only focused on the election but right now and for the past several months that's what they've been focused on. they tend to be pretty small teams. the north carolina national guard, there's about five to ten of them. as i said, there are cyber experts, cyber professionals. they are literally driving across the state going to small counties. we went to warren county in the northern part of north carolina a very rural county near the border with virginia. they have about 13,000 registered voters. that is a significant number of people. when we all arrived at this small elections office they only had a handful of full-time staff there and they don't have anyone who is really a cyber expert or i.t. person. so five of the cyber operators came in and they helped them figure out, are their systems vulnerable to malware or phishing attacks?

not just that. they also have a bigger command center back in raleigh, north carolina where they're literally watching 24/7 to see if there are other potential attacks or intrusions that might be coming in. that includes monitoring social media for potential misinformation and disinformation both in advance of election day and on election day, joshua. >> what is your sense of the mood with some of these election supervisors? i imagine some of them have got to be feeling better that they're getting help from the national guard but also a little overwhelmed or freaked out that they even have to deal with matters of national cyber security? >> one of the things i was surprised by, first off in this small county the elections officers were thrilled to have this help. they don't have an i.t. person on staff. they didn't know how to deal with this. it is free. a lot of these counties don't have a lot of money.

warren county is a poor county. very rural. they were thrilled to have this help. one thing i was surprised, though, is the national guard officials we were speaking with, they openly say that many of these intrusions they're looking at are from foreign actors. so think about that. you have this little county in northern north carolina who now has to worry about the potential for some kind of -- whether it is an active intrusion like trying to insert some kind of malware or just providing misinformation on the day they now have to think about that and the election official i interviewed was so grateful there would be someone back in raleigh watching this. there are more than 30 states doing this already. the national guard expects the number to grow as we get closer to the election. they are all on state active duty so basically the governor says i am activating your cyber security team to do this, start

helping these counties. there is a larger effort going on across the country. u.s. cyber command is involved watching intrusions that could potentially come in and there is some coordination so despite the fact that each state is operating on its own, there are actually -- there is a larger effort at coordinating so that if, you know, cyber conference sees some sort of intrusion come in on election day they can warn the states and then get that information out to the potential smaller election officials. what was striking to me about this, we worked on this story for several months trying to get to the bottom of exactly what the men and women are dooeg. what was striking to me was there was people working on this for months. they started a lot of these efforts during the 2018 election. there are efforts at grass roots levels to really secure the elections this year and a lot of people in the american public don't even know that is going

on. >> nbc's pentagon national pentagon correspondent courtney kube. thanks very much. still to come another whistle-blower has come forward against the trump administration. how might the latest controversy influence voters? insurance so you only pay for what you need. what do you think? i don't see it. only pay for what you need. ♪ liberty. liberty. liberty. liberty. ♪

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the department of homeland security was founded the year after 9/11. its mission included coordinating local and federal efforts to prevent another terror attack but a new whistle-blower complaint alleges that mission is being compromised. brian murphy is the former head of intelligence and analysis at dhs and claims the top officials asked him to alter information to fit the president's agenda. that reportedly included burying or hiding warnings about election interference specifically from russia along with giving false information to congress about how many suspected terrorists actually crossed the border.

dhs tells nbc news they, quote, flatly denied there being any truth to the merits of mr. murphy's claim. unquote. my guests are back with us. michael, i wonder what your sense is on whether we might hear more from mr. murphy particularly whether he will testify. the house homeland security committee has subpoenaed the acting dhs secretary to testify but what about mr. murphy? >> well, if history is an example here, they will hear from this whistle-blower. the committee fought very hard obviously to get the whistle-blower complaint back leading up to the president's impeachment. so here they have another opportunity to do that. adam schiff and his committee i assume as we've seen in the past are very aggressive and will move aggressively here to do everything possible to do that. now, the question of whether he testifies is another issue all together. the trump administration has shown a willingness to stiff arm

congress in ways we've never seen before certainly in recent presidential history. so whether there would be a full throated, you know, wolf would sit down to answer questions about this i find that hard to believe but my guess is that there will be some form whether it is the complaint from the whistle-blower, some sort of statement, a private deposition. there is a lot of different possibilities here for the committee to get at that information. >> what is your sense of the, hate to bring up this phrase again, but the tangible impacts of all this? chad wolf was recently nominated i believe just this week to actually take the formal job. he is still acting dhs secretary. might there be a tangible impact there in terms of how this whistle-blower complaint proceeds? >> yeah, we'll have to see how that unfolds obviously. i think the other thing we have to look at is what the impact is on the campaign trail as the president seeks re-election as we are weeks out from election day and voters in some states

are starting to cast ballots. obviously this brings renewed attention to questions of whether intelligence is being politicized, how this president has dealt with russia and it refocuses or potentially refocuses voters away from issues the campaign would prefer to be talking about like the economy, like law and order, like public safety. it comes at a difficult time for them because they felt like after the convention in recent weeks they've seen polls tightening. they feel things are moving in their direction. they are out doing rallies. they are out campaigning. and so this could prove a distraction from some of that activity. >> michael, could i get your reaction to something from nbc's first read about what might happen with dhs if joe biden won the presidency? at first read wrote, quote, if joe biden wins in november, no single department or agency will be more difficult for a new administration to change either

bureaucratically or culturally. what do you make of that? is it kind of like other parts of the government that it adapts to whoever is in the white house? >> the department of homeland security is a mish mash of a lot of different agencies that often are dealing with the most controversial issues in the government. even under the obama administration whether it was issues at the border, issues of cyber security, the department of homeland security was the place where all of these really thorny issues sort of went. and the thing about the department is it doesn't have the history and legacy of the pentagon or the state department and such. it finds itself often in the politically most sensitive areas with the least amount of muscle memory and experience and political will and capital. so whoever is president the department has proved to be a

thorny place and my guess is will always because it has issues of immigration. >> michael schmidt of the "new york times" and good to see you both. thanks very much. do you care that our country is burning? that's what our next guest wants to know. his take on the western wildfires is just ahead. stay close. to reconnect and be together. and once we did that, we realized his greatest adventure is just beginning. (avo male) welcome to the most adventurous outback ever. the all-new 2020 subaru outback. go where love takes you. (avo female) get 0% apr financing for 63 months on the 2020 subaru outback and other select models. for skin as alive as you are... don't settle for silver ♪ gold bond

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only on verizon. the west is burning unlike anything americans have ever seen. at least 28 people are confirmed

dead. dozens are missing as wildfires menace california, oregon, and washington state. so far they've burned about 47b square miles and displaced thousands of people. oregon warns of a mass fatality incident. residents have begun setting up makeshift camps and shelters in parking lots and state fairgrounds. more fires broke out this week in the rocky mountains. they might have burned further out of control until a freak september snowstorm cooled things down. fire crews called it a blessing. wildfires are nothing new on the west coast but what we've seen lately is unusually terrifying and surreal. president trump has yet to speak publicly about the fires. he has approved disaster relief funding and plans to travel to california on monday. the week the "new york times" published an op-ed on the ongoing disaster. its author writes in part, quote, unlike a storm that makes

landfall and barrels through, leaving destruction in its path, the encroaching infernos descend for days, weeks, even months and become part of our lives. it feels both like the end of days and like the new normal, a stultifying instagram filter fitted over our eyes at all times. unquote. charlie warzel is an opinion writer at large for the "new york times" and joins us now. charlie, welcome. >> thanks for having me. >> when you talk about people caring about these wildfires what exactly do you mean? i think it is impossible to look at these pictures and not empathize but can you give me an example of what caring would look like to you? >> sure. i mean, i think one of the most aggressive points i think i made in the op-ed was, would politicians think differently about climate change and legislation and about actually putting forth some policy that

could change this if when they woke up and walked outside in washington, d.c. every morning they were greeted with a layer of ash on their cars or you had smoke blotting out the sun and causing it to never rise in morning as it did in san francisco this week. i think there is somewhat of a bias just because people haven't lived through it. i am someone who grew up in the midwest and lived on the east coast all my life. i moved out west and experienced it over the past couple years getting steadily worse and it is a feeling that is actually difficult to describe even if you empathize with it. it is hard to understand. >> i used to live in san francisco. i was looking at the picture of the golden gate bridge. but even when i lived there it was clear that these fires were bad and they were going to get worse. i knew that if i please thought

please, you know, maybe i'll make my life out here on the west coast instead of the east coast this is just something i'll have to learn to live with. what is your sense, charlie, of how the west will deal with this going forward? is there a plan to keep the west a livable place? >> i'm not sure what -- what i'm seeing right now is i am focused more on the psychological toll on people living out here. i'm in bellingham, washington a little north of seattle. this morning i woke up and the sun really hasn't risen so to speak. it is technically clear outside right now but i have three or four feet of visibility. i can't go outside. the air quality is too bad. it is very unhealthy is the technical regulation. and this is supposed to be, you know, a weekend where i can maybe get outdoors to escape the pandemic, which is going on, which has trapped me in my home for six months. we're seeing a bunch of crises

layer on top of each other and that is very, very difficult for people to deal with. i am one of the lucky ones. there are hundreds of thousands of people being forced potentially out of their homes and may lose them. a lot of those people are indigenous. a lot of those people are homeless. it is a real crisis and there is a real psychological element and a sensory element that i think makes people feel like the future, like there is no future. >> what is your sense of what people would like to see the federal government do about this now? president trump had taken $44 billion in fema disaster relief last month to pay for some covid related unemployment claims not that those unemployment claims don't matter but what is your sense of what folks on the west coast would like to see from washington right now? >> well, i mean, obviously additional funds to help fight these.

obviously people i've spoken with talking about that there is a parallel to the essential workers who came and basically kept the country running during the pandemic. they were called heroes but they didn't have basic working rights and protections. this is the same with a lot of the people out on the front lines fighting the fires. so potential benefits, treating them with the dignity of people who are heroes and saving lives every day. then i think that there is more focus on prescribed burns and some of the fire mitigation that goes on so that we don't have as much dried vegetation that is causing these fires to get out of control. but right now, i mean, the bar is very low. the president as you said hasn't said anything publicly about this though he is coming out to california. how about a tweet? let's start with a tweet and work our way from there? >> last ten seconds, charlie. anything in particular you are worried about burning, anything

you're just kind of crossing your fingers does not get touched by these fires, before we go? >> i just hope that people in oregon and washington and california are staying safe and getting out and listening to the authorities. i would do so now if you are in one of those areas. >> charlie warzel opinion writer at large for the "new york times." appreciate you making time. thanks very much. just ahead more on coronavirus. there is a lot of conflicting information about when we might get a vaccine. who is actually in that race and who is the world betting on to win? for people living with h-i-v, keep being you.

and ask your doctor about biktarvy. biktarvy is a complete, one-pill, once-a-day treatment used for h-i-v in certain adults. it's not a cure, but with one small pill, biktarvy fights h-i-v to help you get to and stay undetectable. that's when the amount of virus is so low it cannot be measured by a lab test. research shows people who take h-i-v treatment every day and get to and stay undetectable can no longer transmit h-i-v through sex. serious side effects can occur, including kidney problems and kidney failure. rare, life-threatening side effects include a buildup of lactic acid and liver problems. do not take biktarvy if you take dofetilide or rifampin. tell your doctor about all the medicines and supplements you take,

if you are pregnant or breastfeeding, or if you have kidney or liver problems, including hepatitis. if you have hepatitis b, do not stop taking biktarvy without talking to your doctor. common side effects were diarrhea, nausea, and headache. if you're living with hiv, keep loving who you are. and ask your doctor if biktarvy is right for you. ...i felt i couldn't be at my... ...best for my family. in only 8 weeks with mavyret... ...i was cured. i faced reminders of my hep c every day. i worried about my hep c. but in only 8 weeks with mavyret... ...i was cured. mavyret is the only 8-week cure for all types of hep c. before starting mavyret your doctor will test... ...if you've had hepatitis b which may flare up and cause serious liver problems during and after treatment. tell your doctor if you've had hepatitis b, a liver or kidney transplant,... ...other liver problems, hiv-1, or other medical conditions,... ...and all medicines you take. don't take mavyret with atazanavir... ...or rifampin, or if you've had certain liver problems. if you've had or have serious liver problems other than hep c, there's a rare chance they may worsen. signs of serious liver problems may include yellowing of the skin, abdominal pain or swelling, confusion,

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i believe that we will have a vaccine that will be available by the end of this year, the beginning of next year. >> well, the race for coronavirus vaccine continues. one of the leading candidates ast ra zen ya resumed its clinical trial in the uk. the company suspended that trial after participant got seriously ill, but the illness seems to have been unrelated to the

study. dr. anthony fauci says he's optimistic that at least one vaccine will be approved this year. still, he added that it will take some time to mass produce and distribute hundreds of millions of doses. and that's just in the u.s. and that might not happen before the middle or end of next year. this virus is only as veer lent as we allow it to be. it cannot move itself. we move it through interactions or stop it through isolation. some countries are isolating more aggressively than others. in the uk, gatherings will be limited to six people starting this monday. for more on the hunt for a vaccine, let's bring in msnbc contributor a doctor who served as health policy director in the obama white house. dr. patel, first of all what are the stages of a vaccine trial briefly? could you break those down for us? >> yeah, sure, very briefly, joshua. there are four phases in the clinical trial for a vaccine to be developed.

phase 1 and 2 essentially are to look for any serious kind of reactions, adverse reactions much like the one you talked about with ast ra zen ka, that was a phase 3 trial. what we're in now and the largest phase of vaccine development is the phase 3, that's when tens of thousands of people are recruited and volunteer and really the key here, joshua, half of them get the placebo, half the vaccine. a placebo is a nonshot, a shot in the arm that doesn't have any medication or vaccine attached it to. and then half will get a vaccine. but nobody knows, they're blinded. the researchers and the people don't know which one they're getting. phase 4 is generally after a vaccine is marketed and commercially available and people are getting the vaccines. but the fda still continues to follow, to look for any safety issues. so, those are the four phases. phases one and two have essentially been kind of parallel tracked, which is why

we've got record speed in developing a covid vaccine. but all in all, one, two, three and four takes usually about ten years, though, it's pretty dramatically short. >> so handicap for us the candidates for a vaccine. is there anyone who you think is in the lead right now? >> yeah. well certainly we have three manufacturers that are in phase 3 trials in the united states. so, those three are probably our lead manufacturers. with two of the three moderna and pfizer depending on kind of a novel technology in vaccine development, something called messenger rna, tricking the human body in creating proteins that mimic the coronavirus and developing an immune response. it's never been done in humans before. and the third one, as you mentioned, astrazenika in phase 3 in the united states. because they're in phase 3 and enrolled tens of thousands of people, they are the most likely candidates.

just as a side fact, the united states is prepurchased several billion dollars worth of the vaccine from pfizer. so, we've already got kind of some stake in the game with several of these mefr manufacturers. >> i don't know if it feels this way to you et feels like we're crossing our fingers for a vaccine so we don't have to keep wearing a mask and social distancing. we can slow the veer lens of this virus ourself. >> it's a great point, joshua and something dr. fauci touch on before. even with a vaccine that is highly effective, we still will have cases of the coronavirus. the flu is a good example of that. in any given year our flu vaccine can be about 60% effective, which is considered pretty darn good. and we still have people who get the flu and die from the flu. so, we don't really escape. there's no, you know, magic cure, silver bullet in a way to kind of get away from the coronavirus, as you stated earlier. we have to manage it. we will need to continue some of

these behaviors even after we get a vaccine. >> you can cross your fingers for a vaccine some day or start wearing a mask tomorrow. up to you. dr. patel, always good to see you. thanks very much. coming up in the next hour, the stakes are high for latino communities in 2020. the operative word is commune tees, plural bhach are both parties doing to reach out to all kind of latina voters and what are they missing? also, next weekend, we're expanding our saturday and sunday coverage at msnbc. i'm blindingly excited because yasmine will host "msnbc live" from 3 to 5:00 p.m. eastern. if you haven't seen her sharp no non-sense approach to news, you'll dig it based on her years of international reporting. alicia menendez debuts american voices. and she'll focus on the big stories and the underreported stories that deserve a national platform. and that guy on the right, he's going to have a pretty good show, too. at least i hope so.

it's called "the week with joshua johnson." i'll speak candidly with everyday folks like you and me. saturdays and sundays 8 to 10:00 p.m. eastern here on msnbc. p.m. eastern here on msnbc it's the ones that got away that haunt me the most. [ squawks ] 'cause you're not like everybody else. that's why liberty mutual customizes your car insurance, so you only pay for what you need. what? oh, i said... uh, this is my floor. nooo! only pay for what you need. ♪ liberty. liberty. liberty. liberty. ♪ and i'm still going for my best. even though i live with a higher risk of stroke due to afib not caused by a heart valve problem. so if there's a better treatment than warfarin, i'm on top of that. eliquis. eliquis is proven to reduce stroke risk better than warfarin. plus has significantly less major bleeding than warfarin.

eliquis is fda-approved and has both. what's next? getting out there. don't stop taking eliquis unless your doctor tells you to, as stopping increases your risk of having a stroke. eliquis can cause serious and in rare cases fatal bleeding. don't take eliquis if you have an artificial heart valve or abnormal bleeding. while taking eliquis, you may bruise more easily and it may take longer than usual for any bleeding to stop. seek immediate medical care for sudden signs of bleeding, like unusual bruising. eliquis may increase your bleeding risk if you take certain medicines. tell your doctor about all planned medical or dental procedures. ask your doctor about eliquis. and if your ability to afford your medication has changed, we want to help.

♪ hey there, i'm joshua johnson. good to be with you from world headquarters in new york. campaign season in full swing. 52 days from the 2020 election.

president trump is