♪ hey there, i'm joshua johnson. good to be with you from world headquarters in new york. campaign season in full swing. 52 days from the 2020 election. president trump is in nevada

this weekend. he's holding a campaign event before a capacity crowd that begins in about an hour. the president's rallies during the pandemic often bring together supporters in such tightly-packed crowds who seldom wear masks. lately, he's advised taking precautions, but in the past he's joked about not wearing them. almost as if he did not know better or did not care. now, we know that he has known all along just how dangerous covid-19 is. he said as much in an interview with bob woodward back in march. "the washington post" obtained some of the tapes. >> well, i think, bob, really to be honest with you -- >> sure, i want you to be. >> i wanted to -- i wanted to always play it down. i still like playing it down. >> yes. >> because i don't want to create a panic. >> this week president trump continued his optimistic tone on america's fight against coronavirus. he says the u.s. is rounding the final turn in this pandemic. to hear dr. anthony fauci tell

it, that turn probably won't be very tight. >> we're plateauing at around 40,000 cases a day. and the deaths are around 1,000. if you're talking about getting back to a degree of normality, which resembles where we were prior to covid, it's going to be well into 2021, maybe even towards the end of 2021. >> we know one thing for sure, coronavirus will very much a core issue for credit repovoter november. joe biden is leading the president by about 8 points. new polling from "the new york times" and see yen that college shows mr. biden leading in swing states. but worth noting that lead is within the margin of error in november nevada, new hampshire around wisconsin. so statistically it could actually go either way. we'll get more into those polls shortly. but we begin tonight with the pandemic as the u.s. approaches its 200,000th known death from

covid-19. canada may be turning a corner for real. yesterday it reported 0 deaths for the first time since march. overall, canada has had about 9,200 coronavirus deaths. the u.s. has had about that many deaths every nine days. more to the point, canada has fewer confirmed coronavirus cases than the u.s. has had deaths. joining us now are michelle goldberg, columnist for the new york times and msnbc contributor and democratic strategist don calloway. good to see you all tonight. don, let me start with you. i wonder what your sense is of where this goes from here particularly in a tangible, political sense, whether democrats are making hay of any of this? that is yielding dividends. whether they're able to throw any punches on the president that are landing. where are we right now? >> yeah. well, first of all, sometimes it's important to state the obvious. and to me the obvious is it's

unfortunate that in any sane universe this has become a political issue. i think that objectively when you compare the united states to other industrialized democracies we have heinously mismanaged this. and as a result, 193,000 people are unfortunately lost. so, i think that it's a very, very clear case for democrats to make that with the most basic listening to science, with the most basic understanding and encouraging of responsible, collective behaviors this president failed in his responsibility to manage the coronavirus, which, as we celebrate the unfortunate anniversary of 9/11, we reflect on the president's one responsibility and frankly any leaders one responsibility which to keep us safe. that's not necessarily from war or bullets or bombs. that is to keep us safe in the

wholistic sense of the word. joe biden and kamala harris have the easy case to make over the next 53 days that this president failed to make us safe and the bar to not have 193,000 people dead was so low. this president just failed to meet it and the woodward tapes substantiates the things we already knew over the last six months. >> michelle, your column in "the times" out this week talks about the deliberate willful nature of the lies that is present in these new bob woodward tapes. what do you think the upshot of this will be? i think it is fair to say that president trump has a passing allegiance with the truth. am i being diplomatic enough for you? i just don't know that these tapes shocked anybody in terms of, oh my god, the president knew and he didn't say? yes. we know that about the president. so what's the upshot at the end

of the day? >> so the thing that shocked me about them, like you said, not that the president lies, but that because the president is such a veracious consumer of propaganda as well as a creator of propaganda, it's often not clear -- as you said, how familiar the president even is with the truth. right? how salient it is for him. we're used to thinking of him or at least i'm used to thinking of him as somewhat of a creature of his own disinformation, right? we're used to thinking of him or i'm used to thinking of him as believing his own lies. what was striking to me is that the lucidity with which he spoke to bob woodward about the danger of this virus, about how many times more dangerous it was than the flu. so, it was -- it's not -- he understands, right? it's not just that he kind of was watching his shows as he watches eight hours of fox news over 24-hour period. and repeats it back. he knew better. and very deliberately misled the

country. and did it, i think, because he wanted to create -- he has no problem creating panic in the country at large, but he i think was very worried about panic in the stock market. >> don, let me talk politics more broadly with you with regard to fundraising. our new reporting is out about how the trump campaign is dealing with fundraising right now. and falling rather short. the president raised less than joe biden in august by about $155 million. despite having a nearly 3-year fundraising head start on joe biden. both of their campaigns at the end of july had just about the same amount of money remaining in their war chests. i wonder what you make of that especially since hillary clinton mounted a billion dollar campaign. donald trump mounted 100ish million dollar campaign and still won. so dollars clearly don't equal votes. >> theyon't equal votes, but you have to have enough dollars to compete.

at this point -- >> i'm sorry, don. i'm sorry to interrupt you. i should say that more precisely because hillary clinton did get more votes than donald trump. so. >> yes, yes. >> let me say that more precisely. i'm sorry about that. >> that should never be forgotten. >> equal the right votes in the right places to win the electoral college. that's a more precise way to say it. >> you want to have another discussion, they don't amount to electoral college victories which is something we should be thinking about in the long-term, right? let's be clear. you don't need the most money. you need enough money to compete. kamala harris, god bless her, she has been a shot in the arm fundraising wise and has certainly put the democrats on the presidential side in a position to compete. now, i would warn democrats that you still got to run like you are behind because, as you showed, the polls are all within the margin of error in states that matter but also and it's far more important this is extraordinarily important concept you don't need the most money. you need enough money to run

your race. and donald trump has enough money to run his race because he has one important thing which is the power of the incumbency and the bully pulpit. donald trump has one thing that everyone tried to challenge him on the republican primaries in 2016 and now and that's name recognition. so much goes to various attempts to purchase name recognition and he already has that. so it's not going to come down to a dollars thing. it's going to come down to a messaging thing. the democrats have the money to get their message out but it's got to be a strong enough and resident message and i think that coronavirus is providing them the opportunity to do that. >> michelle, what about early voting? politico has some reporting out this week that shows that democrats are leading in early voting, even some democrats who didn't vote at all in 2016 are requesting ballots at a higher rate than their republican voting counterparts. what do you make of the impact potentially of early voting on the two main campaigns?

>> well, look, every vote obviously democrats want to have as many votes banked going into election day as possible. and i think that you see that this is why donald trump is trying to discredit mail-in ballots, sabotage the postal service, fight for -- and i think that the problem with early voting, although like i said democrats will take it, the danger here is that if democrats dominate in mail-in voting and republicans dominate in election day voting, the kind of nightmare scenario of a lot of people is that donald trump calls the election on election night and then uses the power of his office to fight efforts to count the vote in all of these states. and so instead of having, you know, one fight in florida in 2020, you have versions of that all over the country with, you know, armed partisans and levels of kind of inflammatory propaganda that we've never seen before.

so again, i think democrats are glad to be able to bank all these votes in advance of election day. i also think that one of the best ways to avoid that nightmare scenario would be to have a lot of people, people who can, people who are not in too much danger, who feel like they can go out and vote safely should be going out and voting safely in person on election day if they feel like they can. >> i should just note since michelle mentioned calling the election, you don't have to listen to somebody on twitter call the election. some of us actually have professionals know how to call, our decision desk is not in this studio, not in the news room, it's a whole another room. worried about who is calling the election, tune into your boy. don, before we go, what's your sense of where the fights stand over election access? every week we hear about a case where democratic lawyers have won a case in ters of expanding access and democratic lawyers lost a case. on balance before we let you two go, where do you think that stands? >> i think right now all eyes

are on wisconsin, which is supreme court is expected to come out with a decision hopefully by tuesday which will determine whether or not a green party candidate will be included on that ballot. if you remember jill stine won 30,000 votes out of wisconsin in 2016 and the president won by 23,000. so, there is an obvious interloper that republicans are funding his challenge to get on the ballot. it's one of the states where actual professional republican operatives tried to get -- one of five states where they tried to get kanye west on the ballot. this very partisan wisconsin supreme court is expected. i expect a 4-3 decision which will give dr. howie hawkins or something like that but it's dr. howie an opportunity to be on the ballot which will be serious trouble for democrats. my suggestion is that democrats have got to request mail-in ballots, as many vote in person as possible, but if you request a mail-in ballot, you need to take it in, return it by hand in

a socially distant and responsible way if possible so your vote can be timely and safely counted. >> we have a guy that will help explain what the rules are for voting in your state including for dealing with absentee mail-in ballots nbc news.com/plan your vote. democratic strategist don calloway and michelle goldberg of the new york times thanks very much. good to see you. voters are far more complex than we sometimes get credit for. so why does some campaigns take a voting block that elected alexandria ocasio-cortez to be one in the same. how the diversity of latino voters is playing out in the race for the white house coming up. playing out in the race for the white house coming up just press firmly and it continuously eliminates odors in the air and on soft surfaces. for 45 days.

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this november a record-breaking 32 million latinos will be eligible to vote. within that group, 40%, 4-0% are 35 or younger. yet, when it comes to politicians that they say would show up for their community,

younger latinos overwhelmingly agree that they don't agree. this could be a problem for joe biden as he works to rally this voting block. according to an nbc news marist poll support for democrats among latinos in florida is slipping compared to 2016. joining us now is maria the founder of the anchor and executive producer of npr's latino usa. her new book is called "once i was you," a memoir of love and hate in a torn america. it comes out this week. maria, welcome. good to see you. congratulations on the new book. >> thank you, my dear. it's good to be back with you, joshua. >> give me an example of where you think that this dichotomy in terms of the latino electorate could bite the campaigns this year in particular? i as a south floridian think about miami dade county. we have multiple generations of say cubans and cuban americans who have different views about the castro regime or different views on the republican and

democratic parties. they may be more mono lingual. that's my perennial example of how within a few miles you could have vastly different kinds of latino voters. what example most stands out to you this year? >> well, look, i just had a conversation today with somebody who is a latino business leader in san antonio who voted for donald trump. he's latino himself. mexican american. and he said he will not vote for donald trump. that the turn for him came with the pandemic. and with the lies and the constant lying and the pandemic and that's what has finally turned him away from donald trump. but that he spends a lot of his time talking to other conservative latino republicans from the san antonio, south texas area and that they're going to be doing something the hold your nose vote that he mentioned. hold your nose vote for donald trump as latinos because there's

great concern for this notion that biden is going to be pulled to the left into socialism by alexandria ocasio-cortez. you're right. this is really complicated. now the good news for joe biden is that if you go deeper into that conversation and you ask -- so let's talk about the children, the adult children, the voting latinos now, every 60 seconds a latino turns 18 in the united states of america. so it's a massive number of young people. and so the question was will those young latinos follow their parents and vote for donald trump holding their nose because they're afraid of medicare for all suddenly taking away their retirement investment? and it looked like, no, there's a good chance that they're going to turn away from what their parents are going to do in terms of staying with the donald trump vote. so the beauty of it, of course, joshua, you and i could talk about this forever because when you think about what the

democratic party needs to do is if it wants to win as big as it wants to win so there isn't this contesting the vote, you've got to do that by getting latinos and latinas out to the polls. and that's their chore right now. and they've got not a lot of time left. >> what's your sense about how some other cultural factors play into the latino vote, for example, religion. we know there's a strong core of latinos who are catholic. there's been a growing, growing movement of latinos who are evangelical. we know one of the recent stops at the trump campaign made when it was in miami was at one of the big latino primarily spanish-speaking megachurches in south florida. how do you think that faith is going to factor into this? >> you know what, i have to say, i try to be very honest in all of my reporting and like, for example n my book. i'm very honest and transparent. i did not calculate correctly what was happening in central florida in the last election.

i used to talk about the most powerful puerto ricans in central florida being able to swing this election. even though i had reported on latino evangelicals, puerto rican evangelicals from those mega churches. and i thought that there would be a more progressive tilt because of catholicism and evangelical beliefs, the anti-abortion streak is really important. and i think that i didn't take that seriously enough. and then you begin to realize that there are a lot of young people, so this is kind of the opposite of the texas story, there are young people in florida who go to these mega churches, evangelical churches and their first-ever protest is not pro immigration protest where they are going and carrying pro immigrant rights posters. their first protests could be anti-abortion protests or pro life protests is how they would see it.

so, how -- and these are young people, too. these are young evangelicals who are struggling with the vote again because of donald trump and what he's done on the issue of immigration this could push them more towards the biden side because evangelical churches and catholic churches are also very much pro immigrant. so it's are you pro immigrant or are you anti-abortion? and it's a very difficult choice for many. >> as we get closer to the election i would love to have you back to talk more about latinos in different parts of the country. i have my own ideas about if joe biden is going to win latinos he might win them here, here and here and donald trump is going to win latinos he might win them there, there and there. that's a subject for another day. i have to do more thinking and handicapping on that. maria, her new book is called "once i was you" a memoir of love and hate in a torn america. maria, thanks very much. >> see you soon. thank you. it was just four years ago

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[ boos ] not what i'm sure a lot of players wanted or expected to hear at the beginning of the nfl season, but that is how it kicked off thursday night. college football also got under way today. no booing that we heard, but there were a number of calls for unity and racial justice. also, naomi osaka won the u.s. open today. she is one of the most outspoken advocates about black lives matter. joining us now is terrence moore, national sports writer for forbes.com. terrence, good to have you with us. let me start with the nfl. what did you make of what

happened at that nfl game today? i'm kind of not surprised in a way. i think this was almost inevitable, but what do you make of it? >> yeah. well, joshua, let's start with this. everything that's happening right now with the nfl goes back to the original sin which you just talked about before when they blackballed colin kaepernick. by the way, he's still not in the league. they're still doing it. all right? this coverup continues. all this other stuff that we're seeing right now is basically for show. and then here is the other thing that's interesting, you got to consider that we're talking about national football league that is 70% black players yet you only have three black head coaches, two black general managers and many ways it's a sham. and it continues. just as a couple hours ago, joshua, i got this press release from the atlanta falcons. i'm here in atlanta, georgia. i'll be at the game between the atlanta falcons and seattle seahawks. the falcons said tomorrow the players for both teams will be

wearing white arm bands with john lewis's initials on them. of course, john lewis, lived here in atlanta, civil rights icon and the falcons will have a saying from john lewis that encourages people to vote. but again, it's very hard to take all this seriously when you put into the context that colin kaepernick, a guy that took the san francisco 49ers to back-to-back nfc championship games and the super bowl is still not playing. >> and i was in san francisco when kaepernick was doing his thing. so i felt that especially because i watched that run that the niners made that looked very, very promising. >> yes. >> with regards to the nfl, the ratings this season so far, and it's early going yet, but the ratings are down right now. about 20.3 million viewers both broadcast and digital. how much do you think, if at all, this this increased push for social justice is affecting those ratings? we know the president has tweeted that -- and said that if this continues that he won't be watching. he doesn't want other people watching. but then again i don't know if you're seeing an equal affect

among like nba games or the u.s. open or stanley cup playoffs. i don't know if it's an evenly distributed effect. >> well, a couple things here. first of all, let's put that drop in perspective. there's been one nfl game and that was thursday between the world champion kansas city chiefs and the houston texans. the ratings for that game were down 13% from the opening game of last year. but this was the first time in history that you had all major sports playing on the same day including an nba playoff. so that's not a real true test of what's going on here. the other thing, let's stick with kansas city. you showed this joshua at the beginning of this particular segment when you had the kansas city chiefs players and the houston texans players coming out for that show of unity before the game and they were booed. and if you listen very carefully to that crowd, it was approximately little less than 50% of the crowd.

let's just say pull a figure out of the air, 39 or 40%. does that sound familiar? that's the hard core supporters for donald trump. the ones who are against the black lives matter movement. the ones who are against protesting in general. the ones who are constantly blasting the nfl. so, i think what we're seeing here is just basically what we're seeing society as a whole. but one more thing along these lines. you have donald trump. you have his son eric blasting the nfl, talking about how they're not going to watch the nfl anymore and this has been going on for several years, yet despite all that, joshua, last year despite everything we're saying, they still made a record 16 billion with a b dollars. >> before i let you go, terrence, what's your sense of how pro sports are dealing with covid-19 right now? we had the nba in its bubble, the u.s. open had some digital line coaching which has proved to be very interesting. you mentioned how the nfl has fewer fans in the stands. before i let you go, what's your sense of how that's going so far? is it going well?

>> well, contrary to popular belief it actually is. everybody was caught up in the baseball situation where all the baseball games were cancelled early part of the season. you had giants and the padres game cancelled the other day. they recovered very nicely here. you look at the nfl, the nfl does not have a bubble yet they've been testing everyday since training camp. they're going to test through the regular season. and as a matter of fact, they came out with a report earlier this week that showed that from testing from mid august to right before that opening game in kansas city, they had 64,000 tests yet 5 positive tests out of that entire bunch. it looks like so far they're doing the right things to players. the medical staff and everybody else that's involved. >> terrence moore, national sports columnist for forbes. appreciate you being here. thank you very much. >> thank you. republicans and democrats say they want to pass the coronavirus deal. proposals include more stimulus

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covid-19. back in march, a first round of stimulus passed quickly, but those benefits have run out. and even saying that implying that a second round of stimulus is on the way. so far that looks iffy at best. democrats and republicans are gridlocked on a new plan. this week the senate did not pass a so-called skinny stimulus bill. so where do we go from here? let's discuss it with sam brody, he covers congress for the daily beast. sam, the house first suggested 3 trillion. then the white house countered with 1 trillion. and then the white house moved up to 1.5. and then the house came down to 2.2. why didn't they just meet the middle at 2 trillion? i mean, is everyone working from an apples to apples set of numbers about what the country actually needs right now? >> no. they're not. and i think, you know, something to keep in mind here is back in march when that sweeping stimulus bill was passed there was real agreement on what the

problems were and what congress should do about it, namely throw $2.2 trillion at the problem. and then see what worked and what didn't. i think now, you know, six months later we're at a point where the economic hurt is still there but it's not as dramatic as it was in march. that's led to differing opinions on the hill as to what the problems really are, how to best fight those problems and, you know, what even the problems are to begin with. so, that's why you didn't really see republicans and democrats meet the middle. to an outsider you would say why not? it's a difference of a few hundred billion here and there which congress showed this year is not that big of a deal. but it's really the devil is in the details because you have certain line items that are fairly big that republicans and democrats just philosophically disagree upon. one of those things is additional aid for state and local governments. they included almost $1 trillion of that aid in their bill called

the hero's act. republicans it's a complete non-starter. this is how you get gummed up and don't produce a bill. >> so there's plenty they disagree on. is there anything they agree on? is there any common ground from which the negotiations can start? >> yeah. i think there's two things. one is obvious the other is not so obvious. the first thing is basically everybody agrees there needs to be some kind of extension of targeted small business relief. the paycheck protection program which was included in the cares act, a ton of money for both small businesses and as we later found out some larger businesses that maybe folks raised their eyebrows as to how their were getting their hands on some of that money. but i think there was a consensus on the hill that it was successful for some of the smaller businesses and i think folks on both sides would like to see some kind of measure that's really targeted to the smallest, most hurting businesses going forward. the other thing is the 1,200 dollars stimulus checks that went out one time under the cares act. that was something that a lot of

people were surprised to see such agreement on. and you know, in talking to folks on the hill, that's widely seen as another thing that would get probably overwhelming support from both sides. some of the data indicate that those were pretty successful those checks in helping ease the economic hurt that folks were feeling. so republicans and democrats say, you know, if a stimulus were to come up that those checks would almost certainly be in it. >> so, why don't they just do that again? >> the easiest answer is that there's an election in less than two months. they can't agree on some of these basic, basic items like state and local government. the other thing is that republicans are really pushing this notion of covid liability protection. they want to make it harder for individuals to sue companies or whatever they may be for things related to covid. that's something that democrats aren't really jazzed about. so, what you end up with is, you know, we had august, september, lets and lots of back and forth

negotiations between secretary mnuchin, congressional democrats, congressional republicans and it was a lot of wheel spinning and they didn't get anywhere. now we have very little time until the election and both sides found it's just not going to happen before the election so the move in the time being is to weaponize this, try to blame the other side and hope that the voters see things either republicans or democrats way. >> the president issued an executive order that aimed to spend some fema dollars helping people out. now, that was obviously questionable because fema dollars are needed for other things. we talked earlier about these western wild fires. what is our sense as to whether or not -- first of all, whether that money will be available for use helping people out with covid-19? >> yeah. to talk first about the unemployment that was probably the biggest thing that the trump executive order did was extend some of the unemployment insurance for $400 a month. they basically put it on the state s to implement that

program. 49 out of the 50 states did apply for the money but we found that only half of those states are actually getting that money and are in a position to distribute it. so, clearly that -- we went over the cliff in terms of when unemployment benefits from the cares act expired. states are getting their act together. but you know, it's certainly been a slow process in rolling that out. and i think for there is certainly a segment that says i think on the hill there's been some consternation at trump's willingness to use the executive orders to further this stuff, but i think in the absence of any congressional action the white house has realized this is really going to be the only ball moving forward. and they probably see it as a political advantage and it probably is for them to make as much use as they can out of executive orders. but i think the sense is that what they did to extend unemployment there's likely not going to be a whole lot of room beyond that to do things that could really matter for folks. >> and very briefly before i let you go, there's a lot going on.

there has been talk of another potential government shutdown, lord help it, and there's an election coming up. realistically speaking where does coronavirus relief sit on the priority to do list of congress right now before we go? >> i mean, theoretically everyone would say first but i think that ship has sailed. they have to fund the government by september 30th. i think there's going to be some discussion to do some covid-related things get attached to a government-funding bill which must pass but the overwhelming sense is they'll probably do a short-term, fund the government for two to four months and have this fight all over again. >> yeah. sam brody with the daily beast, thank you for clarifying where we stand right now. thanks for making time for us. >> thank you. we have talked a lot about peaceful protests this year. but can a true protest really be anything but peaceful? we would like your help answering that question before we go. n before we go.

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dan rather one said that a picture may be worth a thousand words but the right word can be worth a thousand pictures. for the last few months i've been thinking about a particular word that has accompanied lots of pictures of racial justice protests. peaceful. we have heard a lot about peaceful protests or violent protests that started out peaceful or b violence that 345red what had been a peaceful protest. the phrase makes sense. but these days it kind of hits my ear wrong. for one thing, consider what activists have been saying for a very long time. ♪ no justice, no peace >> so if there's no peace when there's no justice, then as z a protest for justice peace nfl it may not be destructive or violent, but many demonstrations are intentionally disruptive. what does peaceful protest mean

any way? words matter. and this word greatly matters especially since the death of george floyd. it's hard to describe the helpless feeling i had anchoring coverage of the protests in minneapolis. i was trying to listen and be present while be present, while mentally rehearsing what i would say if blood was spilled. what would my segue be if ali velshi had been hit in the head with that tear gas canister, instead of his leg? the grief over george floyd's death soon had to share space with clashes between police and protestors. perhaps, none compared to what we saw in lafayette square near the white house as an overwhelming rush of crowd control sent people scattering. it cleared the streets and cleared the path for president trump's photo op in front of st. john's episcopal church. after that, the p word felt much more necessary. >> i want to be superclear about what did and didn't happen right there. nothing happened, on the side

that the protestors were in. i was standing with those protestors. i've been with them since 2:00 this afternoon. it was, by far, the most peaceful day of protest that we've had in d.c. since this started on friday night. that's what i experienced. that's what the tape shows. that's what history is going to show for tonight. and i don't -- i'm a little shook by the whole thing, to be completely honest with you. it was absolutely extraordinary thing to see and experience with the white house in my peripheral vision. >> that was nbc's garrett haake reporting on that day. now, part of me feels like this question should be a no-brainer because the first amendment is very clear. the government is not allowed to hinder, quote, the right of the people peaceably to assemble and to petition the government for a redress of grievances. unquote. peaceably assemble. so, to me, the bill of rights defines protests as an inherent

activity. if you protest and decide to vandalize a shop nearby, then, as i understand it, you instantly cease to be a protestor. now, you're a vandal. simple, right? depends who you ask. for instance, are americans generally free to protest peacefully, these days? a new poll from pew veefresearc shows republicans were far more likely than democrats to say that we are, indeed, free to protest. democrats and independents have grown significantly more pessimistic about that, over the last two years. but is peaceful protest important for our country? pew says that democrats have consistently been more likely to say it is important than republicans or independents. gop enthusiasm for this has shrunk, in recent years. by the way, it makes no difference, whether you support it, or not. it's the law. and again, laws don't enforce themselves and some laws are open to interpretation. attorney general bill barr was

asked about this last month at a house judiciary committee hearing. >> do you think it's ever appropriate to use tear gas on peaceful protestors? yes? or no? >> the problem in these things sometimes occur because it's hard to separate people -- >> mr. barr, my question is very specific. do you think it is ever appropriate to use tear gas on peaceful protestors? yes? or no? >> it is -- it is appropriate to use tear gas when it's indicated to disperse. >> on peaceful protest -- >> disperse an unlawful assembly. and sometimes, unfortunately, peaceful protesters are affected by that. >> now, mr. barr is basically making a public-safety argument, here. and that can be a legitimate reason to restrict or stop a protest. but supreme court precedent shows that it's not enough. governments can restrict the time, place, and manner of protected speech, including protests. but that standard has three mandatory parts. a restriction has to be

content-neutral. no preferring one kind of political perspective over another. it has to leave reasonable alternatives for communicating the same message. like, protesting on 1st avenue instead of main street. and it must be tailored to significant government interest, such as public safety. when you look at it, through this standard, calling the protests peaceful helps to denounce how demonstrators have often been treated but that slope feels slippery to me, too. are we, somehow, feeding this notion that demonstrations exist on a continuum, with violence at the other end? now, i've brought this issue up before. after the death of john lewis, an exemplar of the civil rights movement, beloved for his devotion to nonviolence. but ask any of the more bigoted, white citizens of his day, and i guarantee none of them would say that sit-ins were peaceful. indeed, they did cause a stir. they did disturb the peace, and

that is why they worked. they worked people out of their comfort zones, and into a conflict they could not escape, until justice was done. sometimes, it feels harder than ever for me, as a journalist, to choose the right word. maybe, i'm afraid that the thousand pictures it will evoke will distort the true image. our best bet may be, simply, just to keep this conversation going. and to hear how our words affect each other. with that said, i'd love to hear from you. what do you think of the phrase peaceful protests? perhaps, you have been active in demonstrations these last few months. maybe, your neighborhood has been disrupted by protests lately. or you might be a government leader or a law enforcement officer, who's had to respond to these events. how does the term peaceful protest strike you? e-mail us talk@msnbc

preponderatalk@msnbc.com. include your name, where you live, and, please, do keep it brief. 100 words or less is ideal for tv. talk@msnbc.com. we will share some of your stories tomorrow. finally, one, quick announcement. i am so excited because, next weekend, we are expanding our saturday and sunday coverage here at msnbc. yasmin will host msnbc live from 3 to 5:00 p.m. it is a sharp, no-nonsense approach to the news based on her years of international reporting. also, american voices with alicia menendez. she will focus on those big stories and on those underreported stories that deserve more of a national platform. and of course, i'd be honored if you came back this time next week for my new program, "the week" with joshua johnson. i will be speaking with trailblazers and especially folks like you and me. the week airs saturdays and sundays from 8 to 10:00, here, on msnbc. thank you so much for making time for us tonight.

sit tight. up next, the story of harry belafonte's unique sit-in. he captured the nation for a week from johnny carson's seat as a guest host of the tonight show. joy reid co-produced a new documentary the sit-in. it's next. until we meet again, i'm joshua johnson. thanks for making time with us. i will see you tomorrow at 9:00 p.m. aer 9:00 p.m. eastern. good night. good night only pay for what you need. ♪ liberty. liberty. liberty. liberty. ♪ i have moderate to severe pnow, there's skyrizi. ♪ things are getting clearer, yeah i feel free ♪ ♪ to bare my skin ♪ yeah that's all me. ♪ nothing and me go hand in hand ♪ ♪ nothing on my skin ♪ that's my new plan. ♪ nothing is everything. keep your skin clearer with skyrizi. 3 out of 4 people achieved 90% clearer skin at 4 months. of those, nearly 9 out of 10

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