s timing and distribution should never be distorted by political considerations they should be determined by science and safety alone a vaccine would offer a way back to normalcy, and a path toward better days, for all of us, not only here but around the world it's not going to happen overnight. once we have it, it's going to take months to distribute it to the entire population. i'm more hopeful than ever in the power of science to get us there. one thing is certain -- we can't allow politics to interveer with the vaccine in any way americans have had to endure the president's policy with respect to personal protective equipment and more the stakes are too high. american families have already suffered and sacrificed too

much, so let me be clear i trust vaccines, i trust scientists, but i don't trust donald trump at this moment, the american people can't, either last week senator harris and i laid out three questions this administration is going to have to answer to assure the american people that politics will not play a role whatsoever in a vaccine process. the if donald trump can't give answers to these questions, the american people should not have confident. >> and adopted in numbers that will make a difference first question -- what criteria will be used to ensure that a vaccine meets the scientific standard of safety and effectiveness? what is the criteria second, if the add mrgts green

lights a vaccine, who will validate that the decision was driven by science rather than politics what group of scientists will that be? thirdly, how can we debt sure the distribution of the veeck will take place safely, cost free, and without a hint of favoritism the fact of the matter is development of a vaccine is only part of that distributing a vaccine to the entire population is as complex and challenging as one of the most sensitive military operations i've been calling for an effective distribution plan to be laid out for months if i'm elected president, i will begin by implementing an effective plan from the minute i take office. that's what i discussed with the experts in the briefing today. they included a detailed timetable for when people get

the vaccine. a clear delineation, a specific means and mechanism for shipping and storing vaccine at appropriate temperatures two of those vaccining, if they come forward, they would have to be stored and shifted at 70 degrees below zero the division of responsibility at every level of government has to be cleared. i will provide the leadership any to carry out that plan i'll level with the american people i will take responsibility and will support rather than tear down the experts responsible for the day-to-day execution of the plan i will simply follow the science. the satisfactory answer to these three questions that senator harris and i have laid out, every american, include me and my family can have confidence in a safe and effect ink vaccine.

this certainty about politics. this is about saving lives, getting back to our loved ones and our friends. getting our economy back on its feet, getting back to the movie theaters and restaurants and ballparks. it's about getting back to our lives and getting america up off the mat. i'm confident we can and will be united in that pursuit no matter when that break through marge -- that's what america does at its best we unite we do it together. i'm confident wield be able to do it. thank you. god bless or scientists and researchers and frontline workers. may god protect our troops i would be happy to take some questions now, if that's okay.

abc, mary. there a risk that that message on question iing. the scientists are going to say this is why with think this is a good vaccine, and it has to be total transparency. so scientists outside the government know exactly what is being approved the context in which it is being approved and why it's being approved we need somebody to take care of

that. >> reporter: for a vaccine to work, be effective, you do need a certain amount of the population being willing to take it you're say don't trust the president, trust me -- >> no, i'm not i'm saying trust the scientists. trust the scientists it's one thing for donald trump to say the vaccine is safe okay, then give it to the board of scientists, have total transparency, so independent operators, the scientists, companies can take a look at it. what did you base that decision on did you pressure the head of the fda? or whomever? i'm not saying he won't or will. that's what has to happen. american people right snow don't trust what the president says about receipting to science. >> reporter: if the science say a vaccine is safe and effective, you'll take it

>> absolutely. do it. yes. if those three questions i laid out can be answered, yes, absolutely kate from cbs. >> reporter: thank you, mr. vice president. just a quick follow-up you say you don't trust the president. does that mean you also don't trust the cdc and fda currentlyy >> no. i don't trust some of the people, like the fella who took a leave of absence he didn't run it, he was a spokesperson for it. when i met with the seven scientists today on screening in this room, they told me the people they had worked with in the cdc and the fda and all of the various agencies there's some very, very good people there in the ranks, the everyday -- not everyday day they're scientists, but the people who do the daily work in there. there's some very, very good

people, but you notice from other items that they've been quashed with things they have said they've been pressure surahead of those agencies, politically appointed, have been in fact moved, moved to say yes, we can do this or that, this will work or that will work. it's a simple proposition. if a vaccine is really to go, it should be totally transparent the basis upon which that decision was made, what scientists have looked at it and said this is a useful, safe vaccine to take. so that's all i'm saying that's going to be necessary i respectfully suggest no matter what i said in this process. all the polling data shows that only like 30% people say if trump said it's okay -- this is the same guy that said inject bleach he said if you want to keep

hurricanes from getting to the united states, why don't we drop a nuclear weapon on it >> reporter: the fed today announced their projections for unemployment are actually going to be lower than expected. in polling we see time and again that president trump has an edge over you on the economy. why do you think that is >> well, because i don't think -- i've been out out of for four years you know, that's a long time we actually created more jobs in the last three years of our administration than he completed in the first four years of his administration more equitable distribution, fewer people at risk, but i think it's a matter of my being ability to communicate my position on jobs and trade for example, the world trade organization, he wants to batter us around, but it just ruled his trade policies were illegal. guess what we went in 14, 15, 16 times with

the w.t.o. and won every single time why should any american remember that so part of it is reminding people, laying out what my plane for economic recovery is >> reporter: if people have questions about the economic fallout from the pandemic now, you have said that you would have acted earlier what do you say to people who might question how the economic impact would have been different, even if you acted earlier, the social distancing, the closings would still be in plate? >> not necessarily you wouldn't be very the high ratings of reinfection we have now. we need national guidance on the basis on which you can open up it varies within state to state. you may very well be able to open up on a rural area, not an area that is a metropolitan area or -- because of the degree to

which the virus is rampant in that area. we've not set anything out we've not laid out -- this administration has not laid out the criteria there's no national criteria what is the national criteria for opening schools? they still don't have one. you need a national criteria you need it to be able to be sure that you can open safely and securely you can have social distancing you can have the wearing of masks, smaller classes, you need more teachers, the whole range of things. why won't he lay out the guidance even when the cdc initially had stronger guidance, talking about political manipulation, no, no, don't put those out. the president was then saying, testing just causes more cases to show. it's about being honest. you know, he loves to quote churchill. he lives to quote roosevelt.

roosevelt said in a crisis said it would get worse and worse until it gets better and better, but what you say is give it to the american people, they can handle anything. give it to them straight they can handle anything that's what i'll do. cnn, jessica >> thanks, mr. vice president. you mentioned the cdc director's comments this morning about the vaccine and how -- i'm sorry, about maskings and how critical they are you previously called for a mask mandate, a national mask mandate. if you were elected, what steps would you take to put that in place, and how would that work >> well, first of all, i found it sfas nating the president said biding didn't put in a mask mandate, but -- i'm not the president. he's the president it's like, you know, biden's problems in these cities are in flames i'm not the president. he's the president

i would make -- i would call all the governors to the white house and say -- and because there's a question, i think it can be answered in the positive -- a question whether i can mandate over state lines that every single state has to comply our legal team thinking i can do that based upon the degree to which there's a crisis in those states, and how bad things are for the country. if we don't to it, what happens? but i would make the case why it's necessary i would have the scrip tices lay out in detail why, and i would go to everyone governors, republican and democrat ecgovernors, and say we have to have this national mandate we must do it. at a minimum, i wouldn't walk around saying masks don't matter, like he said in the town hall i think it was last night. i just saw the tail end of it.

you know, people don't like masks. as a matter of fact they could be worse don't hold me to this, i didn't see it, and stephanopoulos asked why, and he said waiters don't like them. they touch the foods and touch the masks. >> >> reporter: but what would happen if, say, a governor pushed back on you on this how do you get by -- >> well, the question is whether i have the legal authority as president to sign an executive order. we think we do, but i can't guarantee it. >> reporter: if you did, you wouldn't >> if i did, i would. >> reporter: thank you, sir. i have to call on my hometown paper, meredith >> reporter: sir, in terms of the distribution of virus, communities of color have been greatly affected would they get first and how would the distribution work?

>> based on the proposal laid on by the experts i spoke with today, and the national science foundation is coordinating with the cdc and other agencies, they indicate that the first group of people that should get the vaccine, if and when it is available, are people at the greatest risk. that includes everything from nursing homes, to people with serious preexisting conditions that would caught people to be in real trouble. a lot of those people happen to be black and brown happen to be black and brown so it would be based upon the degree of exposure we would go first, though, i would argue -- but i have a scientific board lay it out for me -- it would go first as laid out for me today, to first responders, doctors and nurses the people who most -- we're most needed to have available to deal with our crises, health as

well as physical crises in our communities. that would be the first. it would move to the -- now, one thing that hasn't happened yes, and i am not a scientist, though i hope i am well informed on this issue there have been no tests yet on children so children ironically may be the last people to get the vaccine, because it's going to take time -- and they indicated to me, in 2021, to be able to do the kind of testing on children. children are less likely -- although they can -- and it's more likely that their teachers and the elderly grandparents would be exposed so the first would go to the people most susceptible, but children will have to be part of this, but there's a lot more

work ton done. no trials have been done on children. >> reporter: a loose plan on how they would distribute the vaccine? if you were elected, would you reverse course on the federal program? >> no, they haven't put one in place, number one, but i haven't seen the details i would make sure to bring in all the experts to make sure what is the best and most rational means of distribution now, look, there are two types of vaccines being worked on now. one is an rna model that are done by two of the operation one changes a cell structure the m-rna, that requires two

injections it requires to be stored at 70 degrees below zero so in addition to all there, there are mechanical issues as to how and where the vaccine is seeming, let's say the moderna one is picked, assuming that the vaccine is approved, it's a very, very significant difficult problem on how you distribute that vaccine for example, you couldn't -- you have to ship it in bulk if it's the m-rna version. that means thousands -- a thousand at a time kind of thing. that means it will go to hospitals and major medical distribution centers it's not going to go to cure doctor, and you can't show up at walgreens for your flu shot. my doctor did it the other day, but i used to go to walgreens. you have to have two shots, two

of them, and so my generic point is there are not only what is safe to do, but distribution issues that are consequential and matter a lot so it's not like, by the way, if i told you tomorrow, if i want -- if i were president and said we have approved the following two vaccines or one vaccine, well, the vaccines that are likely to be approved so far start off with a group of 10 thousands doses all the way to 60,000 doses well, you know, there are million of people, and then you get up to several million, but it takes time is what i'm saying it has to be done fair lip and well it could be based on your tax returns, figuratively speaking it's got to be based on who is most vulnerable. who is most vulnerable, okay

thank you all so very, very much thank you. hi, everyone welcome to the 4:00 hour that was joe biden who spent much of his time as barack obama's number two, working on a moonshot cure for cancer, speaking there with obviously a lot of nog knowledges about the challenges to distributing a vaccine. we've been listening to joe biden rolling out hits plan for developing and distributing a vaccine that american accounts trust.

joe biden seizing the opportunity -- after last night's town hall. the president, who opts out of being president, is where we start today with some of our favorite reporters and friends with us ashley parker is here, plus axios political reporter alexi mccannen, and senior columnist for bloomberg opinion, tim o'brien is back. let me start with you, tim, on some of the news there clearly joe biden has been briefed and has directed pup policy efforts around science and medicine i was reminded, listening to talk to him about some of the trials, knowing that kids are not in some of those trials yet, knowing that some of the vaccines tested require two doses, just all those details -- against a president who the most recent thing we've had heard in

his words and his voice, was him confessing to bob woodward he knew all along that he knew the virus was a plague, but played it down. >> one would hope it's refreshing to everybody in america who has suffered emotional and intellectual whip does that lash over the last year sitting through press conferences and briefings that were fact free, and essential reality distortion fields. say what you want about joe biden's politics, or say what you want about joe biden's ideology people can have disagreements about that he is an honorable and honest public servant trying to make fast-based decisions that's been gone for a very long time i thought he handled the questions skillfully he understands at a basic level the dynamics around this vaccine. he understands how i think

utterly dangerous it is to try to rush a vaccine to market. i interviewed the people running operation warp speed, which is the federal government's veeck project about a month ago. they said they didn't expect a vaccine to arrive, and they were optimistic about this until january, but president trump has repeatedly said we may have one% election day it is healthy that joe biden is tamping down those expectations, because the federal government will have a very hard time getting a skeptical public that has long held skeptical views to willingly get inoculated by a vaccine peddled by an administration that cares more about president trump's reelection than the lives of americans. >> indeed, ashley parker, your newspaper alerted this headline that the cdc director said today, no vaccine is likely to be available broadly until deep

into next year, not until late second quarter or third quarter of 2021. director redfield directly contradicting the president, who as recently as last week propped a vaccine in late october and ordered the cdc to get ready for the distribution, what is going on that he's now under -- not even coming close to october, talking deep into the third quarter of 2021. that's a full year from the election >> well, what you're seeing is the yawning gap between a president who so far has, again, very much been trying to wish this virus away, engaging in a bit of magical thinking that's not based if reality, not based on scientific facts, and his public health officials for the most part are going out, trying not to upset the president,

leveling with the american public there's a difference between a pharmaceutical company announcing, okay, we have reached this phase where we have a vaccine, and being able, as redfield is discussing, mass distribute, and as joe biden we heard him say, mass distribute across the country safely and make sure, you know, everyone american who needs a veeck has a vaccine. that is the difference between a president who does not find himself beholden to fact and these public health officials. it's one of the reasons we have seen such turmoil and frustration between the president and his public health officials as well. >> you know, alexi, it's got beyond a fact immune president this president is almost sociopathic in his disregard for the health and well-being of his own supporters having that six-foot perimeter around himself, about you not

protecting attendees in indoor rallies this week. here's the comment that ashley parker is talking about. this is the president saying to george stephanopoulos that a lot of people are anti-mask, and then here's director redfield saying that masks at this point more important, more protective than a vaccine let's watch. >> a lot of people don't want to wear masks there are a lot of people who think that masks are not good. there's a lot of people as an example -- >> who are those people? >> waiters. >> i'm not going to comment directly about the president, but as the cdc director, these face marvs are the most important public health tool we have, and i will continue to appeal for all americans, all individuals in our country, to embrace these face coverings we have clear, scientific evidence they work, and they are

our best defense i might even go so far to say that this face mask is more guaranteed to protect me against covid than when i take a covid vaccine. >> alexi, director redfield there, certainly offering some science-based evidence phone biden just called for a mask mandate. >> what's disheartening is we're six months into this thing and we're still having a debate about the efficacy of this math. the president is standing up saying -- and he's discounting the ways in which they work, and he's slamming the health experts for say, well, in the beginning, they were saying we didn't have to wear these masks, now all of a sudden they are. i've been thinking a lot about this, the idea that the president said in his interviews with bob woodward, he didn't want to create panic, and that's why he downplayed it but what did the president

create he created this world in which there are people, uber drivers, waiters, others i have encountered myself, who really believe the masks are a political tool for a government. i had an uber driver in wisconsin the other day, who said as soon as the election is over, he believes the government will say, you don't have to wear your masks anymore that's precisely above politics, that others have injected into this life-or-death situation, and joe biden is forced to give these remarks, do these public meetings with public health experts to say these are what the scientists are say and i believe them while president trump is saying i don't believe the scientists, i know better than the scientists do >> you know, tim every time i hear a story like that one from alexi, i start to despair. 67% of americans trust tony

fauci, and less trust president trump. what is also revealed, not just being science immune and fact immune is, again, this sort of stunning vacuum of a place where normal people hold empathy here's another question and response from last night's town hall. >> my question is, if you believe it's the president's responsibility to protect america, why would you downplay a pandemic that is known to disproportionately harm low-income families and minority communities? >> well, i didn't downplay it. in many ways i up-played it in terms of action. my action was very strong. what i did was with china, i put a ban on it. with europe i put a ban on, and we would have lost thousands more people had i not put the

ban on that was called action, not with the mouth, about you in actual fact. >> mr. president i voted for you in 2016. i'm conservative, pro-life and diabetic i've had to dodge people who don't care about social distancing and wearing face masks. i thought you were doing a good job with the pandemic response until about may 1st. then you took year food off the gas pedal. why did you throw vulnerable people like me under the bus. >> we really didn't. we've worked hard on the pandemic. still, so much to say, but i'll let you do the things and say up-play isn't a word >> but as always, donald trump gives us new terms to play around with, including herd mentality, instead of herd immunity one of the things he said that

got overshadowed, amiss everything he said about not responding publicly to a coronavirus that he knew was deadly, was how he had absolutely no interest in trying to put himself into the shoes of people of color in this country who deal with a myriad number of challenges and had been doing it for centuries, continue to do so today and essential said to woodward, i paraphrase, you drank the kool-aid you actually care about making an effort about understanding what's happening to this group of our fellow americans, fellow americans of color of course that first question last night from that black woman about this issue is so on point, because trump lacks compassion for people of all creeds and colors he has no interests in the challenges other people face he never has he's been fortunate enough to have been insulated from the challenges that the rest of us

mere mortals have to contend with it's made in a uniquely hard-hearted and apathetic person who doesn't have any empathy for others' travails i also think the second question about him taking his foot off the gas pedal, i don't think he ever cared about whether or not this stoked a public panic he didn't want the markets to respond negatively it was something that would bring the economy further down and complicate his reelection efforts. that's why he didn't respond any more forcefully than this. i also think it's useful today to know that michael caputo appears to be on his merry way out of hhs he's among a cadre of trump spokespeople in the federal government who not only don't let the science get out, but try to corrupt it. caputo reportedly tried to

mangle the weekly cdc reports that are just basic status reports for americans to understand where we are with the pandemic and other diseases. there are stip people like caputo throughout the government caputo is ute, but barr seems to have gone full caputo, in asks prosecutors to look for sedition cases to charge there's something that we have become numb to, and it's the abusive relationship between donald trump and the press that covers him it's jarring when he turns the denial of the lies, the inability to understand the perspective of anyone questioning him on to an undecided voter at a town hall talk about those those deficiencies were revealed anew last night >> well, you had a town hall

where you can't go answer by answer, but was incredibly misleading with just about everything he said, right? it requires a sort of speed fact check to keep up on the one hand it was just president trump. there is no joe biden there. he's doing a separate town hall tomorrow evening one hear where vice president biden would really shine is with what you mentioned earlier, the empathy gap, the way that joe biden really excels and of in understanding the concerns and the opinion of everyday americans. the president encounters a lot of americans dealing with pain and was not particularly empathetic last night. the flip side is when you have a president who repeatedly, as this one does, does so many false, misleading things, some of them downright lies, it is very, very hard to fact check him. that's going to be a challenge for joe biden during those debates for real-time fact

checks the dangers of something like that -- and this is borne out in research, when someone repeats a lie or a falsehood, it becomes true in these extort of stephen colbert truthy-ness levels morally they field more comfortable passing it along if you are shameless like the president and willing to talk to everyday voters, misrepresent your record, your opponent's record and outright lie, that gives you a per verse political advantage in certain ways. >> alexi, i want to get you in, though, on this conversation that i think a lot of us have about the empty think gap, which the two men might as well be two different species, but there's a competence gap

joe biden isn't just checking it off his to-do list it's not clear that president trump is even briefed by scientists anymore, but he understands what is being said is the country has been deprived of a thinking president. to the extent that the empathy is something that speaks for itself s. donald trump's failures have killed people. there's a sharp argument to make by the biden campaign in the closing months about donald trump's stupidity being the greatest liability to sticking with him. >> i mean, i think about this, too, when thinking about the electorate heading into this election before the coronavirus, the economy was still the top concern for a lot of people. they didn't have the virus in the way they do now. that's requiring someone who doesn't have the skill set that president trump has, at least in voters' minds. voters still say he's a businessman after all, he's not a politician, he's a business

guy and will get us through this but now they're seeing ways he can't handle the coronavirus, to the point he's saying it will just disappears. peek are seeing the death toll rise every single day, loved ones, colleagues, neighbors contract this virus, going through the whole situation alone, and not hearing anything from the president in terms of empathy and kind of connecting on a human level, but they're also feeling like they're not getting the facts. i think that's why you hear joe biden saying i'm going to shoot straight from the hip, tell the american peoplehow it is, because i know they can handle it that's another way to draw this subtle contrast with president trump, who he is acknowledging isn't telling americans, and now we have evidence from the president himself he's not

telling americans how it really is i think the task was too tall for the president and he sort of retreated, and we're seeing the effects now. >> and to your point, alexi, that was a message repeated by mrs. obama and others. alexi and tim are staying put. ashley, we'll let you go. when we come back, more on donald trump's woeful's performance last night, leadership failures exposed by voters who taechbded there, undecided voters there who were just asking him questions, stuff that he couldn't answer and didn't care to try my friend steve schmidt on what bob woodward is today calling donald trump's monumental catastrophic leadership failure. let me tell you something,

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and pay it off in one lump sum when you leave your home. discover the option that's best for you. call today and find out more. i'm proud to be a part of aag, i trust em, i think you can too. but when i started seeing things, i didn't know what was happening... so i kept it in. he started believing things that weren't true. i knew something was wrong... but i didn't say a word. during the course of their disease around 50% of people with parkinson's may experience hallucinations or delusions. but now, doctors are prescribing nuplazid. the only fda approved medicine... proven to significantly reduce hallucinations and delusions related to parkinson's. don't take nuplazid if you are allergic to its ingredients. nuplazid can increase the risk of death in elderly people with dementia-related psychosis and is not for treating symptoms unrelated to parkinson's disease. nuplazid can cause changes in heart rhythm and should not be taken if you have certain

abnormal heart rhythms or take other drugs that are known to cause changes in heart rhythm. tell your doctor about any changes in medicines you're taking. the most common side effects are swelling of the arms and legs and confusion. we spoke up and it made all the difference. ask your parkinson's specialist about nuplazid. i think it's one of the most historic moments in the oval office where a crisis is laid out, and the president doesn't level with the american people it's tragic for is the president and the american people.

if he had told the truth in some form, we would be in a completely different position. it's a monumental catastrophic leadership failure. >> a monumental catastrophic leadership failure that was how bob woodward put it this morning on "morning joe." if donald trump had not lied to the american people from the beginning, had not downplayed the virus from the beginning, had not refused to acknowledge the value of wearing a mask, we would be in a different place today and tomorrow what a plates it is today, millions out of the work, millions, and nearly 200,000 of our fellow americans lost forever. joining us now, political strategist, my friend steve schmi schmidt. alexi and tim are still here the woodward tapes are one of

the most interesting developments in the trump presidency it's almost like confessions of a mobster. it's sort of like the final scenes of, you know, in sort of crime show where, in the end you hear him late in life confessing to why he did it confessing to downplaying the virus, also just riffing with bob woodward. >> he induced a confession of the greatest like in american history, bar none. there is no windchillant, nothing that frankly comes close. donald trump knew how deadly covid-19 was, and he lied to the people -- he called it a hoax, blamed it on the democrats as a

result, the united states is the epicenter. weapon a shattered economy there are more unemployed the education of every kid has been disrupted and ruined, and we have an american way of life that has been upended. grandparents can't see grandchildren being born, no bar mitzvahs, no tailgates, no football games, none of it had to be. it's important to understand this if we had the same mortality rates that germany did, another medical country, we would have 140,000 fewer dead americans. it's also very important to understand what donald trump talked about last night, when he talked about herd immunity

apparently that is the plan, and we should understand it as the most dim world plan ever articulated in the history of a country by a president he's saying once the minimum number -- about 190 million americans are infected, which would be a minimum of 2.5 million dead americans, more like 3 million according to johns hopkins -- at that point we would collectively have a herd immunity that the virus would start to die out sometime in 2022. this is a catastrophe that was completely, totally preventable, and if anything, bob woodward is underplaying his description of it it is a catastrophic leadership failure, but more than that, there is no equivalent in the country's history to it.

it is the greatest ma eses eses in the history of the united states. >> steve, what is the message that you close around what is an umbrella of calamity is it that he doesn't care is it that he knew he was lying? and that he's choosing, and again his affinity for herd immunity, which is what we all think he meant when he said herd mentality, would have had millions of americans dead by 2022 how do you take a message of corruption and utter failure to the country when they didn't care he was a terrible person four years ago >> we know one of the things of true is the durability of joe biden's lead at this point he could certainly still be elected president, but this

isn't four years ago the reality is the overwhelming majority of this country profoundly disapproves of the job that donald trump has done the question, like it always is, for an incumbent president, is are you better off today than four years ago there's an incredibly small number of people who can answer that question in the affirmative. look, the country is in obvious chaos, obvious decline we face disasters on multiple fronts he's a person who has divided the country. he's decent crated his office, weakened america globally. the allied leaders laugh at donald trump we see aggressors all over the world gaining strength, gaining confidence as america is in retreat and decline. so as this -- as this comes to an end now, right -- the catastrophe we faced, the ending of the american way of life, it's on donald trump, and he has

no plan. the the country cannot endure this for four more years that's the closing message that joe biden will have to deliver he has to take the presidency from donald trump, and he has to do it by confronting trumpism. >> thank you, steve. up next going the full caputo this time, barr calling for the prosecution of sedition plots, false scenarios about mail-in voting, hoping to scare you to sit out the election? that's next. ♪

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but perpetuating the unsubstantiated claims of fraud. in a video out today, former president obama spoke directly to young voters, stressing the need for them to vote. >> over the past few months aisle learned a thing or two how to quarantine successfully you've told me how to start a mean sourdough starter it looks awful young people have always been the once to make changes in this country, one against this fall it will depend on you. >> alexist and tim are back with you. obama assembled a collision that delivered two presidential victories.

there's a lot more obstacles, but donald trump and bill barr throwing up hurdles everywhere you look. >> you hear from former president obama and first lady michelle obama, really saying to democrats and voters, look you have to vote i think we'll hear democrats shift to this message that, look, mail-in voting is fine, but you may have to do whatever it takes to vote in person obama -- both of the obamas are some of the most popular democrats in the party s job job and his campaign wants to make sure she follow through on voting just about of that ad, we reported at action i don't that snapchat had registered 400,000 voters through their platform,

and that was before obama did that ad. >> all right because i love alexi -- and i love you too, tim -- but to you goes the barr question never have so many said so many dumb things. this is not an institutionalist, this is a wannabe sean hannity, who sounds as bat-bleep crazy as mr. caputo >> are you going to play a clip? >> we're not we just played it for you. >> sorry sorry. >> this sort of decline of the rhetoric coming out of country's attorney general is remarkable it was someone who, when he got there, had had the job before. he's someone who really in this taped interview, i listened to

the whole thing sounds nuts. he's not hannity-worthy anymore. he sounds like the guys that don't get a show on fox that end up in daytime radio. his rhetoric is bonkers. >> well, remember he's got a very clear goal here bill barr has seeing donald trump as a blunt force instrument for reordering norms, laws and federal institutions to create a powerful president who is unphet erd by congress and to some extent by the courts. bill barr is a fist indicated person he's also a profound political operative, and trench warfare professional what he's trying to do is poison the well around mail-in voting there's absolutely no evidence that mail-in voting is riddled with fraud a number of red states have used

it success in i for quite a long time as well as dozens of others what bill barr is trying to do is poison the american dialogue to empowers donald trump >> thank you both for your insights thank you both for spending so much of this hour with us. don't go anywhere, the next hour don't go anywhere, the next hour start after a very short break ♪ upbeat music >> tech: and that's service you can trust when you need it the most. ♪ upbeat music >> tech: schedule at safelite.com. ♪ upbeat music >> singers: ♪ safelite repair, safelite replace. ♪

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he's going to claim that it's rigged, by some foreign entity, some fictitious organization that's democratic-controlled. i remember him once turning around and saying, it was in regarding to putin -- it doesn't matter who you vote for, all that matters is who is counting

the vote that's why he now has there with the mail, and guaranteed ballots that come in for biden/harris, they're just going to disappear. it's now satlien undeniable fact he's called on his voters to vote twice he's appointed a political chronnity postal service who has ordered slowdown he has an attorney general caught on tape this week ranting and raving about made-up fraud with a chicago tribune columnist. and they're -- to raise suspicion that the entire kanye candidacy thing is a spoiler attempt. from "new york times," quote, because of a variety of allies and supportsers of president trump are working on the ground to advance his campaign, many

democrats view his candidacy as a dirty trick by republicans, a notion mr. west has rejected still, mr. west's candidacy is one more point of uncertainly. many republicans, including mr. trump appeared confident he will siphon votes from joe biden, those his appeal could be bluch blunted by some of his positions. it's just one empty by president trump and his allies to keep power. just yesterday trump repeated a doctored video showing joe biden falsely playing an anti-police song, instead of the song that biden actually played. twitter added a manipulated video tag to trump's tweet, but not until after a very, very

very large number of people saw the doctored one this is there's trump consistent and false claims that the election will be rigged, despite the fact there's no evidence of widespread voter fraud as ben ginsberg recently wrote -- legions have searched in vain for fraudulent double voting at long last they have a major politician urging to vote twice. the president as public -- is where we start with some of our favorite reporters and friends a.b., when you take the public facing conduct donald trump not once, but i think two or three times now, calling on his

supporters to vote twice, you take that interview from bill barr, where he talks about post office delivery folks getting paid off, i mean, this is -- you can't call it crazy, because it's real and it's happening, but it does represent an accelerated effort to cheat. >> yeah, i would add other things to your long list that you read before you introduced us, which is that he has also just told a big convention, violating the hatch act several times a week, using it as a site for campaign events, spokesmen going out and campaigning on white house grounds, includes the press secretary against joe biden, and nen to that -- i think we talked about it two weeks ago, blocking the release

of bulge continues about russian disinformation, that mirrors trump's rhetoric and barr's rhetoric, and also questions the mental fitness of vice president biden. it's coming from the russians and they basically quashed it so that, combined with telling congress they can no longer have in-person briefings, is a way of inviting more disinformation and these doctored videos are incredibly disturbing and alamben. i cannot imagine if they were doing it, what kind of outraj we would be hearing from republicans. it's hard to continue with the torrent of lines ben ginsberg last week talked about how they conjured for fraud and the president himself

had a commission run by chris cobach of all people, and this had to disup and down it the president is telling us over and over again he's going to contest the election people need to hear this loud and clear -- he is saying the only way he loses is if it's rigged it's very dark, but everyone should be prepared to say he has it on good authority he's won, and any ballots that come in the hours and weeks to come are illegitimate, and he can use many, many levers of the executive branch and his vast authority, including bill barr, to do terrible things to contest this election, at many, many different turns. up until december 8th, which is when a law requires that the slate go es to congress and even beyond

>> eli, i know this is covered and this is out there, but i watched the doctored video it doesn't have a flag saying these fake, this is b.s., when i watched it on twitter. i'm not the most technologically astute person, but neither are the vast majority of americans my question for you is, have we failed to tell this side of the story? donald trump and his kids and his many criminally charged and some locked-up allies have been spreading this information and lies and propaganda for as long as they've been people that anyone like us pays attention to we're just now starting our news program with these effort to sow distrust, to -- facebook and twitter just now, in a matter of weeks, not months or years, figuring out how to flag some of those lies are we too far behind the eight ball to make a difference? >> that's a harder question to answer, you know, than i'm

capable of doing i hope not, but certainly having technology go unregulated for decades, and watching the dissent of our politics go into conspiracy theories, you know, it is easy to see why, you know, for all the fact checking that is done on this president, for all the mainstream news coverage that contextualizes and corrects a lot of information from the president's mouth, from the twitter feed, they just don't care they keep right on chugging along. they are never going to be famed by the fact checking they will point to all of it that the president, the media is against the president, it's negative they're just interested in perception and the perceptions that people hold, the biases, the idea that the media is out to get them. when think see an tag knitsic

relationship that's thrown into fact-checking mode, they see that, and they see what the president tells they to see, and we are not in this country where they're just people in a hermetically sealed world, and in the campaign, they do not care about the fact-checks they know they can disseism nate it through facebook, through their on website, through their own app, and they have people who are just living in this world, where the information they are get, the only thing they trust is from the campaign. le polling would tell you that's notal big enough world to perhaps win this election to win it fairly, but it is still a thing that's happening and it's a huge challenge for

voters mo maybe don't plug into this stuff all that often and seeing information that's conflicting. they're trying to make a decision, a and they don't know what is real and what is not real that is really difficult at the end of the day that's something that obviously the biden campaign is working to get sits information out, but the trump campaign thinking that they win if it's all just a big mess, if it's a wash this is from biden and trump, i don't know what to believe that is how the trump campaign believes that they can success with this strategy in terms of message i messaging and find out that person was in that video ant wasn't even told about it. they don't worry about the referees at this point and haven't for some time.

i have a million headlines i want to get through, but eli said something i don't think we spend enough time on -- shame. we have never calibrated for covering someone with no shape we covered the "access hollywood" tapes thinking he would feel shame, that his wife and children, including at the time a young child, heard him talking about grabbing women in the bleep on a videotape it was covered as a scandal. donald trump didn't feel any shame that he was caught on tape feeling those things we covering the woodward tapes like the frost nixon tapes were a refusal torrie look the white house isn't trying to deal with that, donald trump is worried about getting bad press.

he's not ashamed that he got caught lying about the coronavirus. he's not ashamed that "access hollywood" had a tape talking about him sexually assaulted and being a peretz tore against women. he doesn't have a capacity for shame, but we still cover him as someone who could be caught running a kanye west campaign to siphon off the same amount of voters that jill stein got our entire system was really built on more norm laws than behaviors enshrined in criminal statutes it is really based on people's gentlemenly conduct and trust and earnestness and shame.

we haven't granted with that enough it has really powered by that lack of shape. the thing about the kanye west thing is it's completely out in the open it's not democrats thinking it might be a dirty trick we now that they're trying to get kanye west to be a spoiler, because jill stein's spoiler effect was so powerful she helps hillary clinton lose in wisconsin fewer than 78 thousands votes, so they've been looking at the polls and seeing that biden does, a, so much better, and that without a third-party spoiler, they would be headed to defeat

there is power in the numbers who could end up tips the election and write-ins, when people think he's -- there were so many write-ins and it ends up being mathematically consequential. what's also out in the open are two big stories of trump-affiliated figures with acknowledged mental illness. so you can exploit all sorts of human beings for your maniacal plots. i want to show you michael cohen talking about it >> the power that he now has has gone to his head he wants to be an autocrat

he wants to be the president of this country for life. he wants to be just like putin, just like kim jong-un, just like maduro, just like mohammed bin salman he doesn't want to run for president. that's why he says, what about 12 more years? he's not joking. understand donald trump doesn't have a sense of humor. he doesn't laugh, he doesn't tell jokes he doesn't have a sense of humor. he means it when he says it. >> eli, say what you will about michael cohen, but he was on the inside >> he hayes spent years at donald trump's side listening to the phone calls and in the private office of the trump tower. he knows this man very well, better than most i would just also, you know, point out that the president, again, has made some of the they points openly. when he was talking with president xi jinping of china,

trump marveled, said, wow, that's a pretty good arrangement you have there throughout his presidency, he's been in the that will of autocrats and respectful of somehow the power this was come to hold and been inveryius envious what he does after this election, especially if he doesn't become the victor, that's a scary thing a couple things to remember, the elections are admarch by the states, so for all the disinformation and confusion, the states will be the ones counting these ballots the other thing is all of this disinformation about the election going to be rigged and stoking these fears about a result we can't -- we won't see immediately. and that that's evident -- knee, that's obviously not true but

one effect we're starting to see show up in some polling is even the president's own supporters may beau less inclined, because they're starts to believe my vote won't count, and that could backfire on the president if the intensity of some of hess supporters wanes, because they're told for weeks leading up to the election that nothing's going to matter, it's going to be rigged, it's not going do count we've seen in some polling today that those voters, that numbers has softened in terms of their intensity and determination to vote that's one reason why.

mitt romney calling out, the everly to use congress to launder russian disinformation about joe biden and here's mitt romney but it's not the legitimate role of government for congress, or for taxpayer expense to be used in an effort to damage political opponen opponents. >> so god bless mitt romney, i think he's playing for a role that was long occupied by john mccain, but he's the only one. it's my understanding that ron johnson is still pressuring the fbi and donald trump is pressuring the fbi to generate more fodder for ron johnson's

effort to launder russian disinformation with the express purpose of smearing joe biden. ron johnson has openly said several times that his investigation will show that joe biden is not someone that should be elected president and will help donald trump's reelection efforts. he hasn't even been subtle, but on mitt romney, the last good man in washington, it's an amazing thing to watch i do think, back to the subject of shame, even though the president has not, i do think about the president disparages

combined with all the tapes we've been hearing i think in the end it's shaming supporters, because they know what they read in the four outlets that confirmed it, it is true, and i think that that sense of shame could do president in. thank you for having this blunt and really provocative conversation with us a note to our viewers, we showed michael cohen there. he will join joy reid tonight on her show. when we come back, the head of the cdc says it would not be until mid to late 2021 until americans are vaccinated,

contradicting his boss, donald trump maybe that's donald trump is now talking about something called herd mentality it's not even a thing. we think he's talking some herd immunity plus trump is peretzed by a voter. and senator lindsey gram hi attempt backfired badly. "deadline white house" continuing it's smarter trading technology for smarter trading decisions. fidelity.

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. i think there will be a vaccine that will initially be available sometime between november and december, but very limited supply and it would have to be prioritized. if you're asking me when will it be generally available to the american public so we can begin to take advantage of a vaccine, i think we're probably looking at late second quarter, third quarter 2021. that's a year from now that was the cdc director, dr. redfield, talking about a proposed timeline of a veeck distribution which is very different from the politicized much short are timetable we've heard. it comes one day after trump raised questions here was his shift.

>> it's probably going to go a lot faster because of the vaccine. it would go without the vaccine, george, but it's going to go away without the -- >> without a vaccine >> sure, over a period of time. >> and plenty of deaths. >> it's herd mentality it will be herd developed. >> herd immunity is assume what he meant it's a process of the ability for the virus not to spread by infecting a high percentage of americ americans. yesterday more than 1,000 americans died as the suns inches closer to the death toll of 200,000 of our fellow citizens joining our conversation, global health policy experts and misnbc

mel contributor, dr. gupta, and ron klain. i think herd mentality is something that's happening, but we'll save that for a different conversation tell me what herd immunity looks like, if that's what slipped out from donald trump's lips last night? >> sure, nicole. good to see you and be here with ron. the causative herd immunity is in notion that enough people have developed either natural immunity to the virus, because they've been infected and now have their own body's defenses at work, or they have received a vaccine. they think about that number 60% having one or the other vaccine or natural immunity, even though we don't know what that means right now, that the virus will stop transmitting it tell. what that means in the short term is that people will die,

those who are vulnerable, those who are 65 and older with preexisting conditions we put a bunch of people at risk by even talking about this in really casual terms, and people are confused by these terms, but it would mean people would die some forecast 400,000 by december 1 >> ron, when i watched joe biden's speech today, i was reminded he had spearheaded the -- i refer to it as the cancer moon shot he spent a lot of time being briefed by scientists, taking in their information and then sort of communicating it back out to the public it dawned on me that, to the degree that donald trump has ever even briefed anymore by real scientists, he's usually just fuming about their ratings

being higher than his. let me play some of joe biden from today's speech. >> we can't allow politics to interfere with a vaccine in any way. americans have had to endure president trump's incompetence and dishonesty when it comes to testing and ppe. let me be clear. i trust vaccines, i trust scientists, but i don't trust donald trump at this moment, the american people can't, either >> ron, the polls bear that out. just 39% of americans in the most recent nbc news poll said they would take a vaccine distributed by donald trump. >> the point that the vice president was making today is we are going to need a vaccine.

as dr. gupta suggested, the herd immunity could be, before it's over, 2 to 4 million of deaths, hundreds of thousands of deaths by the end of the year that's no plan at all. if we have a vaccine, it has to be validated scientifically. and distributing this vaccine will be one of the biggest challenges of our lifetime what the vice president was say today is we need a competent plan that was fair, free for everyone, means you don't get it because you're in a blue state or if trump is fighting with your governor or not. everyone has free, fair access joe biden is laying out a plan to do that in the next administration

>> dr. gupta, on the sort of fact-based sort of statement about where we are, i mean, there are confusing indicators at this point. i mean, yesterday we had a big spike in deaths, over 1,000 people died. donald trump is talking about we're rounding a corner, flattening the curve, what is really going on? >> 1300 died yesterday as dr. fauci has been saying, we're entering a vulnerable times. viruses like colder, dryier environment. i hear this all over the country, parents worried about their children going back to college or high school sports. now we think young athletes

might be effected by something called myocarditis, or inflammation of the heart. is anybody talking about this? no the big ten football conference is going live, and we don't have a true understanding of it what about masks on the west coast, at least, i know everybody across the country, you and ron are feeling it, are seeing the haze that started here everybody is psychological lockdown what about holiday guidance? we're not hearing anything about can you see grandma or grandma what is safe or not safe we're not having the conversations people are wantic to have, because the president is just flat-out denying it. >> i actually want to follow up, what should we be doing? should we see you're grandparents i think joe biden made this point, dr. gupta, there isn't a national plan six months in.

just, you know, follow-up to you, what should people do >> if you can, i would avoid hopping on a plane, but an argument could be made that a plane is better than a fully ventilated classroom the ones who have rapid testing before you board a flight and then a few days later after you quarantine wherever you're going, you could test yourself again, and then wearing an n-95 in between how many people have access to that not many my advice would be try to avoid putting vulnerable loved ones at risk right now the exceptions will be few >> you know, ron, it seems that that sort of hunger i had even in the moment for answers to those questions is what joe biden is trying to speak to. he was pressed today in that availability about whether he would take a vaccine if it was deemed safe. tell me the strategy around

coronavirus for the final 50 days of the campaign >> well, you know, nico nicolle biden will be guided by the science and the way he conducts this campaign you heard him again reiterate we ought to have a nationwide mandate donald trump last night said he heard that waiters shouldn't wear masks,, or waiters told him it doesn't work. we have one candidate for president undermining the message that dr. redfield gave we have hundreds of thousands of lives on the line. the president of the united states is undermining faith and coached for the need -- the

challenger is deliver a clear message that everyone ought to be wearing a mask. that one alone could save more than 100,000 lives before the end of this year that's just one of the differences between the two candidates for president >> thank you both so much for being informative and spenting the time with us when we return, donald trump's out-of-touch answer to a voter who asked him about how his make america great again slogan sounds to african-americans? ...to soccer practices... ...and new adventures. you hope the more you give the less they'll miss. but even if your teen was vaccinated against meningitis in the past... they may be missing vaccination for meningitis b. let's help protect them together. because missing menb vaccination could mean missing out on a whole lot more. ask your doctor if your teen is missing meningitis b vaccination.

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rarely seen with a republican. i hope there's not a racial problem. this country is great because of it >> a really important questions about african-americans followed by an answer all about him donald trump didn't have an answer, because in truth there is no good answer. he's proven time and time again that he fundamentally

misunderstands the fight for social justice in fact his repeated focus on law and order on this moment of racial reckoning appears to have backfired. consider the two states most affected by unrest in these last few months, ground zero really, joe biden leads trump by 15 points, and in wisconsin, where trump echoed his law-and-order messages in aftermath of the shooting of jacob blake, trump trails by six months joining us eddie, and bob cotko is here. eddie, just seeing that when he's faced with a a real voters, he's got nothing

>> absolutely nothing. you know, what is revealed in those moments, nicolle, he has the bask knowledge to answer directly, or the ability to empathize. on the one hand there's just ig new orleans. on the other hand there's a character flaw combined, it leads to kind -- it results in nonsense. he lies about historic support, and then he talks about that he doesn't believe that there's a race problem he hopes there's not a race problem, when we have tapes with the interview with bob woodward, where he acknowledges there's something called systemic racism or institutional racism. he probable doesn't know what it means, about you he acknowledges it in that conversation. again, what we get from donald trump in these instances is evidence, i think, nicolle, he's simply out of his depth

when asked these questions, or simply doesn't care. bob, you bob, you know, bob woodward says, shouldn't we be competing around our privileges, and he tearing into woodward, man, you've been drinking the kool-aid that's what i thought about when i saw donald trump struggle to answer questions really from all of the participants, but especially from african-american participants last night. >> what was revealed in the town hall last night was also revealed in bob woodward's book. it's a resistance in terms of engaging with a discussion about systemic racism and broader issues in the nation what you see from the president indeed is a reaction, a touting of his own view of his own support, and he just rattles off

economic numbers and own claims about the level of support and his own agenda to him, politics, whether it's dealing with black voters or white voters, it's transactional in his view rather than about values, at least in terms of how he articulates publicly those questions and answers. >> eddie, i want to ask you about those poll numbers there was a lot of hand wringing in democratic circles that after ked notcha joe biden would be in trouble, that he was going to be associated with, i guess, the lawlessness that donald trump was warning about. that did not happen, in part probablily because joe biden came out and forcefully called for the arrest and prosecution of anyone who breaks the law, anyone who loose or destroys property, but joe biden hanging on to a very comfortable lead in wisconsin, which is a tight,

tight state. and way ahead in minnesota's well what we see is driving voters behavior, what you talked about in the last segment. they're older, susceptible they know the president has failed miserable y we know that people we love are dying

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>> that didn't take long, attacking his cdc director dr. robert redfield in sworn testimony today before the senate that a vaccine would not be distributed widely until the second or third quarter of 2021, exactly a year from now. donald trump doing from the podium just what joe biden promised he wouldn't do, contradicted, interfering with and pressuring the scientists. if you needed a day to celebrate the contrast, donald trump just gave it to us. >> dr. redfield is a major character in bob woodward's book, someone who was highly alarmed about what was coming out of china, trying to sound the alarm in the administration. you see with dr. redfield and

other officials, to try -- it's evident as the post has reported, the president may use a vaccine announcement or claim during october as so-called october surprise as we to jolt his own campaign chances in november but this is something that's sensitive. it should be based on science, in the view of the scientists and officials i'm speaking with. and this is going to come do you mean to the integrity of pharmaceutical companies and health officials inside the administration >> i mean, this should be handled by the scientists for anyone who will stick their arm out and get injected certainly to take their kid to a pediatrician and have them vaccinated what is he doing he's at 26% credibility which represents a fraction of his own base less than 35% approval on cyrus and he is today contradicting his own cdc director on the timing of a vaccine.

>> nicole, i think we ought not to dance around this we ought not to treat it as if it is a reasonable claim he is doing what he knows to do. donald trump will run past 20 truths in order to tell one lie so he's lying. that's my default position when it comes to this question. he's lying because he thinks it will benefit him politically we need to treat that utterance for what it is you were talking about this in an earlier segment we've got to understand. this guy has no shame. so if he doesn't have any shame, he will lie through his teeth at the drop of a dime and we need to treat him as such >> two of the best of the best thank you for spending time with us when we come back, remembering lives well lived

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this is 5g built right. only on verizon. she always wanted her smile to shine. now, she uses a capful of therabreath healthy smile oral rinse to give her the healthy, sparkly smile she always wanted. (crowd cheering) therabreath, it's a better mouthwash. at walmart, target and other fine stores. the name was picked out. the baby shower was socially distanced, and kaitlyn had a glow about her her family pulled the advocate in louisiana said the prospect of a second baby, a second child seemed to change her she was so full of pride so full of excitement. but in late july, she started to feel sick. soon there after she was

admitted to the hospital and days after that, her oxygen levels started to drop so doctors performed an emergency c-section at 36 weeks. she was sedated through the entire procedure and thankfully it was a success but after it was over, dillard went directly on to a ventilator imagine the decision her mom had to make. to be there for her 29-year-old daughter fighting for her life in the icu, or to be there for her newborn grand daughter, spending the first few days of her life in the nicu because of the coronavirus, it was one or the other it could not be both so she stayed with her daughter. until the end. she died of the coronavirus without ever so much as holding her newborn baby morgan.

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so thank you for letting us into your homes during these extraordinary times. we're thankful "the beat" starts right now. hi, ari. >> thank you very much i am ari melber. thank you for joining us as we track these stories now. the cdc saying masks are good protection against covid new documents reveal efforts to smear a man who died in police custody. we have that story later and bill barr showed that he considered violent protestors able to be charged with sedition we begin with joe biden firing