basketball style normalacy, third or fourth quart of next year, second half of next year which gives me a little more time to get in game shape for him which i'm sure i'll need th >> i don't know whether i would rather sell beer at that game or whether i would like to be the ref. >> you can be the ref. i honestly do think i'm going to take him up on this. it will be like our version of v-day. we did it, we're done. that's going to be it. me and anthony fauci playing basketball >> i am telling you whether or not if i am the ref of that game, you will have to let him win. if i am the ref of that game, you have to let him win. you'll do it i'm telling you right enthusiasm well done, my friend thank you. and thanks for joining us at this hour. today has started off as a

normal news day, but it churned into a cascade of breaking news. we'll get through a whole bunch of it tonight. i will give you a preview tonight of a major story that we are finishing up the supporting on now that we are going to break on our tomorrow's night show in my mind it's kind of a big deal we'll break that story there is a lot to get to tonight. a lot has developed the last few hours. let's start with this that broke up "the new york times" tonight. cdc's testing guidance was published against scientists' objections this is a scoop from times reporter apeerva mandavilli. i think it is something that we all worried may be coming. we saw this it happening a couple of weeks ago. this was the "a.p." headline at the time

officials modify covid-19 testing guidelines sparking away from confusions and bewildering experts. >> that's not a good headline during a global pandemic the president started saying he wanted there to be less coronavirus testing because if we had less testing, it would like look we have less cases he brought on this radiologist to take over the task force at the white house. this is the guy he had been arguing on the fox news channel for months that covid is not so bad, it is good, that if more people get it, the better. we should not worry about testing people so much because who cares and how many people get it in any context it would be weird for the cdc to take an unexplained u-turn in an environment where the president is publicly embracing crazy ideas. covid is good and infects everyone and stop the testing. in an environment where the president is publicly embracing crazier and crazier ideas

including about testing and where he's brought on this new r person who says stop the testing, it was particularly worrying it seemed particularly ominous for the cdc to have quietly put out these inslickable new recommendations that not so many people should get tested now we've got the dirt thanks to this story in "the new york times. now we know it's just as bad as we worried it might be here's the reporting from t"the new york times", quote, it was not written about the scientists and was posted despite their serious objections according to several people obtained by the

"times." it wasn't the cdc but other trump officials who rewrote the existing testing guidelines and then they, quote, dropped the new recommendations into the cdc's public website, flouting the agency's strict scientific review process quote, that was a doc that came from the top down from the hhs and the task force said a federal official with knowledge of the matter. the "times" further reporting, cdc science documents went unheard. they told the scientists, quote, we do not have the ability to make substantial edits according to an email obtained by the "times. the testing guidance was quietly published on the agency's website on august 24th we do not have the ability to make substantial edits we the scientists of the cdc are

not being allowed to make changes to this document or to, in fact, write this document trump administration has written testing guidelines and they're just putting our name on it. in other words, they used the credibility and the authority of the cdc, right but they posted their own made up stuff under their name, on the website of the cdc, but they're not guidelines published by cdc or science. these guidelines did not go through the rigorous scientific review process that makes cdc guidance authoritative and trustworthy in the first place and cdc scientists are being told in a document obtained by the "times" that their objections to the guidance don't matter, it's going out under their name anyway because the white house and the trump administration say so, and this is probably the part where the cdc director is supposed to resign either in protest of this

happening or in shame for having allowed this to happen to his agency under his watch either's fine, but this is probably the part where he resigns. at least that's how it works in the movies as to why this is coming out now, well, i mean, the obvious reason is that the times got these documents now and good on them and congratulations on the scoop. we're going to speak to the reporter who broke the story tonight. but it seems like from this reporting that apparently this may in part be happening specifically now, specifically tonight because there are sources who have knowledge of what's going on here who seem to be trying to give us all a heads-up, not about the fact that this is already happening and the testing guidelines that rolled out were go bbogus -- ex me -- last month

not only did it happen last month, but apparently it's about to happen again. specifically it's about to happen tomorrow. quote, a new version of the testing guidance expected to be posted friday, aka tomorrow, has also not been cleared by the cdc's usual internal review for scientific documents and is being revised by officials at health and human services according to a federal official who was not authorized to speak to reporters about the matter. so this happened a few weeks ago. the cdc essentially was hijacked, right? testing recommendations that didn't come from them and their scientists objected to were put out under the cdc's nachlt now we know that's happened. and we're forewarned it's going to happen tomorrow they're out to put out new testing guidelines or cdc guidelines they're trump guidelines they'll put out under the cdc's name,

and we have now been forewarned. you know, part of this -- and i say this sort of with an eye and with my mind on the good people of the cdc and the good people of america's public health infrastructure and agencies. and what this says about you. some of what this says is a testament to how good you are, right? to how much the cdc has become the international gold standard for national health guidance, right? if you're a bad actor and you want to wrap yourself up in someone else's reputation in this field f you want to use the imprimatur as your own as the agency and the letter that stands for excellence in the field, if you're a bad actor who wants to wrap yourself up in it,

it's the cdc because they're the international gold standard for what authoritative true public health science is supposed to be, and so the trump administration as moved to steal that authority and put out their own junk under the cdc's name because they know when we, the american people around the world see cdc's name on it, we will be inclined to follow it because we know the cdc is sound. but the fact they have stolen it and they've put out non-cdc guidance under its name means it's over apparently of its reputation he has allowed the storied important, storied unparalleled agency to be compromised right now if it's got the cdc's name on it, you can no longer count on it to be science because sometimes it's

non-scientific junk shoveled by the white house it takes decades, generations, innumerable m.d.s, phds, whatever kind of doctor there is to build the kind of reputation, authority, gravitas, and authority that the u.s. government used to lead the world in in stuff like this. it takes forever to build that turns out it takes less than one term of one president to eat it, to destroy it. how are we going to get that back joining us now is "the new york times" reporter who broke this story tonight. thank you so much for joining us on this short notice, and congratulations on this scoop. >> thanks for having me. it's my pleasure. >> so i wanted to ask you -- i wanted to ask you about sort of what the cdc is trying to tell

us here. one of the things i found so fascinating in your reporting tonight is your sources telling you we sort of all should have known that there were tells, visible things, that there were mistakes in that testing guidance that anybody from the cdc, anybody familiar with the cdc's work should have realized and would have realized marked this as not a genuine article, something that wasn't really a cdc product. can you describe what that meant to hear that from your sources and whether you recognize that now when you look at the guidance that was put out in the cdc's name >> there were things about that cdc report, rachel, that were obvious to people in the know, to people who worked closely with the cdc, doctors, that this did not come from the cdc. there were a lot of public

health experts who questioned these statements saying this doesn't sound like the cdc and is contrary to everything they've said so far. on a smaller scale at a sentence level, the scientists were so upset at their work being misrepresented in this way and science being misrepresented in this way, i'll give you one example. in the document i'll give you reference to testing for covid you don't test for disease you test for the presence of the virus, for sars covid 2, which is what the science is called. the white house, the hhs don't like that term they say testing for covid the cdc would never be that im precise, and they know that. it kills them that this particular douchlt has gottcume

so much attention, it's not their work, and they're getting blamed for it. i think one of the reasons they reached out to me at this particular moment in time is they've seen the document has huge impact on public health they are worried for what it means for the public, and also, i think, they really want some change they want congress to pay attention. they want somebody to take action and go stop the political interference, if you will. >> that's fascinating. it's helpful actually that they've identified to you and you've now published what we can now recognize as sort of a fingerprint. if you see something under the cdc's name that's written in the specific scientifically imprecise and inaccurate way, that's a fingerprint to know that was something that wasn't written by cdc scientists.

in terms of the kinds of warnings that you're getting and the upsets you're hearing from yoursources, i'm also struck that you're reporting that another piece of guidance is due tomorrow and you write that this is something that has also not gone through the processes that thinks would go through to meet the scientific standards do you know if the guidance due out tomorrow will also be put out tomorrow under the cdc's name, and do you know substantively what it will say. >> i believe the plan is it will go under the cdc's website. >> wow. >> i will tell you my source actually learned about this new guidance from the media. they did not know it was being worked on because they were not asked to work on it, so they ha no idea it was being done. apparently some people in the cdc may have been involved but then it has gone to the hhs and to the task force for

comment, and there's a good chance as was done with the version that was on the website now, it will be heavily revised and modifiable until it is recognized by someone who did write it. >> wow one of the ways people resist this kind of thing, particularly in the scientific world is to let it coming and then to cry out about the integrity and the walls that are supposed to protect that you have gone very far to try to help the public understand what's going on here thank you so much. i really appreciate it. >> thanks for having me. >> apoorva spgs mandavilli is a reporter from "the new york times" with the scoop on this. really important stuff as i mentioned at the top of the hour, this has been a day and particularly an afternoon and evening of a ton of breaking news also on the covid crisis, you should know today yet another

senior trump administration official has sort of flipped, has come up publicly to say as a senior staffer in the trump/spence administration, she's seen it from the inside, seen how they behave, and it's worse than you think another senior adviser telling you base whood on what she's seu should vote this republican out of office. this is unlike anything you've seen in the administration people have written critical books for other presidents, even bad presidents this is a tide that will not stop it's absolutely unprecedent, and the rank of people and the types of jobs people had before they come out and say run for the hills, this is terrible, there's nothing like it. his national security adviser,

his defense secretary. we recently saw similar almost panicked warnings from the top counterterrorism official from the department of homeland security and the chief of staff of the department of homeland security well, now once again it's a senior national security person. it's the homeland security adviser to mike pence. her name is olivia troy. importantly she was also vice president pence's lead staffer on the coronavirus he, of course, is the head of the white house coronavirus task force. olivia troy said she's the person who organized and participated in every meeting of the white house coronavirus task force, which means she's been there for all of it. she's in a position to know of what she speak and of what she is warning all of us about watch this >> i'm olivia troye.

you know, i've been on the covid task force from day one. the virus was very unpredictable at the very beginning, a lot of unknowns toward the middle of february we knew it wasn't a matter of if. covid would become a big pandemic here in the united states but the president didn't want to hear that because his biggest concern was that we were in an election year and how is this going to affect what he considers to be his record of success. it was shocking to see the president saying that the virus was a hoax, saying that everything's okay when we know that it's not. the truth is he doesn't actually care about anyone else but himself. he made a statement once that was very striking but i never forgot it because it pretty much defined who he was when we were in a task force meeting, the president said, maybe this covid thing is a good thing. i don't like shaking hands with people i don't like shaking hands with disgusting people. those disgusting people are the same people he claims to care

about. these are people who go to the rallies and have complete faith in who he is if he had taken the virus seriously or made an effort to tell how serious it was, he would have slowed the virus spread, he would have saved lives. it was an opportunity and an honor of a lifetime to serve for the white house. i put my heart and soul into this role every single day at some point i would come home at night, look myself in the mirror and say, are you making a difference it doesn't matter because no matter how hard you work and what you do, the president is going to do something detrimental. it was awful it was terrifying. i've been a republican for my entire life. i'm a mccain republican, i'm a bush republican, and i'm voting for joe biden because i truly believe we're at a time of constitutional vices at this time it's country over party. >> that's olivia troye, the top

homeland security and counterterrorism adviser to vice president mike pence that's a testimonial that she did for republican voters against trump that was just released today and that is a new congratulations we have not heard before about the president and miss troye's claim here. she expressed basically happiness about the coronavirus epidemic bought it means she no longer has to shake hands with, quote, disgusting people olivier troye participated in every white house coronavirus task force olivia troye also told the "washington post" tonight in an interview, she helped mike pence in the writing of this op-ed by the vice president this summer you might remember this. it ran on "the wall street journal. you see the headline there there isn't a coronavirus, second wave. this was also the op-ed where the vice president said that, you know, the u.s. approach has been a huge success and it's

going away he bragged in that op-ed, look, we're down 20,000 case as day, it's going away, and it won't come back. still it's september and we're sitting at a stock still 40,000 pieces today and that op-ed piece seem as bananas now as it did then it's one thing for a jerk like me to look at that piece that came out this summer and feel like i do with what the vice president wrote this summer burke now to have his top advise owner the coronavirus telling the "washington post" tonight that she actually helped write that op-ed, she helped write that op-ed around she can tell us that, yeah, that's trash, i mean that's something else but that's what just happened. quote, troye said she was asked by senior pence aides to help on the op-ed for the w"the wall stt

journa journal" quote, it was ludicrous, she said of the piece, which ran in june again, troye says she helped write that piece, but her assessment of it, quote, it was ludicrous. and she says that as a lifelong republican and a trump white house official, someone who was right there in the middle of all of the coronavirus response at the white house, she's now saying run i need you to know how bad it is she says she will be voting for joe biden in november. it has been a crazy day. apparently also, something to keep in mind and to watch for, the chief of staff to education secretary betsy devos is also about to come out and join one of these groups of former trump officials who are giving these kinds of warnings. like i said, it has been -- it has been a nuts day. and more news for you. since we have -- well, a federal judge tonight has just issued a ruling that has just been handed to me.

this ruling requiring the u.s. postal service to undo all of the things they have done over the course of the summer to slow down the mail. we had known this was coming because the judge gave what's called a bench ruling, meaning he oversaw and listened to a hearing and then he ruled from the bench, and we had heard some devastating quotes from his bench ruling we had been awaiting his actually order, which is a devastating and comprehensive ruling and order to the post office to immediately reverse the changes that trump postmaster general louis dejoy has instituted to slow down the mail ahead of the election that is just breaking right now. we just got the order. more on that next right after the break. i'll read it what if i sleep hot? ...or cold? introducing the new sleep number 360 smart bed...

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it was august 18th when the national uproar over the trump administration monkey-wrenching the freaking mail, monkey- wrenching the post office got to such a high level that the postmaster general appointed by president trump announced that he would suspend the changes that he had instituted that had slowed down the mail he said he would stop things like, you know, taking mailboxes off all the street corners but that same day, 14 states led by washington state filed a lawsuit essentially saying, well, okay we hear that you're going to rescind these changes, but we're here to ensure that you put your money where your mouth is.

these 14 states took the postmaster general to court in order to legally ensure that he actually would reverse the changes that he'd instituted to slow down the mail well, it's good that they did if you're worried about the mail because since that announcement from the postmaster general that he was going to reverse all of these changes, we have seen plenty of evidence that the mail has continued to be slow and specifically that it has been even worse in places that are likely to be hotly contested in this november's election we're going to have more on that with a senator who uncovered that in just a moment. but today there was drama in a federal courthouse in washington state because today a federal judge held a 2 1/2-hour hearing on the merits of this case against the postmaster general from these 14 states he oversaw the hearing and then he ruled right then and there from the bench we have been trying all day to get a transcript of what he said from the bench we haven't gotten it yet but thankfully there were reporters monitoring the

hearing, including reporters from "the washington post," so we did get some quotes, which was our first alert that this was going to be sort of a red-hot decision for example, quote from the judge. the states have demonstrated that the defendants are involved in a politically motivated attack on the efficiency of the postal service they have also demonstrated that this attack on the postal service is likely to irreparably harm the states' ability to administer the 2020 general election the judge said that the mail delivery backlogs caused by these changes, quote, likely will slow down delivery of ballots both to the voters and back to the states this fall the judge said, quote, this creates a substantial possibility that many voters will be disenfranchised and the states may not be able to effectively, timely, accurately determine election outcomes. so when he's saying stuff like that from the bench, we knew this ruling was going to be a big deal well, now just tonight, just as we've gotten on the air, the judge has issued his written ruling, and so now we can see what he is directing the post office to do and the whole ruling is kind of red hot, but here's the part where he tells the post office

what they have to now do quote, accordingly, it is hereby ordered that plaintiff's motion for preliminary injunction is granted. the u.s. postal service defendants and all their respective officers, agents, servaer iservan servants, employees, and persons in participation with them are hereby enjoined, meaning prohibited, from the following until the court resolves the merits of this case. quote, continued implementation or enforcement of policy changes announced in july 2020 that have slowed mail delivery, including instructing mail carriers to leave behind mail for processing or delivery at a later date. requiring mail carriers or delivery trucks to leave at set times regardless of whether the mail is actually ready and prohibiting or unreasonably restricting return trips to distribution centers if necessary to complete timely mail delivery. the postal service is now also prohibited from deviating from the postal service's long-standing policy of treating election mail in accordance with

first-class mail deliver standards regardless of whether or not it is sent as first-class mail they're also enjoined from taking any actions in violation of the commitments made by postmaster louis dejoy on august 18th such as removal or decommissioning of any mail sorting machines, reducing hours at post offices, or closing mail processing facilities. they're also enjoined from implementing or enforcing any change in the nature of postal services which will generally affect service on a nationwide or substantially nationwide basis absent a duly issued advisory opinion of the postal regulatory commission. the judge then goes on to say that -- and this is -- this is interesting. goes on to say if any postal facility has trouble processing election mail due to any of these changes that dejoy has made, due to the equipment that was remove order -- removed or any of the rest of it, he says

the equipment is to be replaced by this judge's order. if any facility has requested that machinery be replaced in their facilities, that request must be presented to the court, meaning to this judge, and he will make sure it is handled the court will determine those requests so, again, this is a federal judge in washington state tonight issuing a nationwide injunction against the postal service to go back to the way they were doing things before postmaster general louis dejoy monkey wrenched the whole postal service ahead of our big vote by mail election, apparently on orders from the white house. (announcer) if you're on medicare, you'll find many places offer advice. the senator who has been leading the investigation into what's been going on at the post office joins us next. stay with us my priorities. (man) my choices. (woman) my medicare. (announcer) myhealthpolicy.com. start here. click to reserve your free copy of my medicare guide or call 1-800-go-start and make it easy.

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plaintiffs allege these changes were made for political reasons a few months before a presidential election and in the middle of a global pandemic with no analysis on how they would affect voters or people relying on time-critical items plaintiffs allege while the removal of sorting machines is taking place across the country, the removals would particularly affect sorting capacity in

states where recent presidential elections have been particularly close. that is part of the ruling tonight from a federal judge in washington state ordering a national injunction, telling the u.s. postal service they must reverse the changes that have been made this summer under postmaster louis dejoy that have slowed down and otherwise screwed up the mail this summer ahead of what is expected to be the largest vote-by-mail election ever in the history of this country. that description from the judge also happens to line up perfectly with a report released this week by senator gary peters of michigan. it's a report that he titled "failure to deliver," which outlines the nationwide slowdown, the nationwide impact of the changes that dejoy has instituted, and specifically the fact that the worst slowdowns appear to be in some parts of the country where the election is expected to be closest. senator peters now joins us live sir, thank you so much for

joining us on short notice it's been sort of a fast-moving news day i appreciate you making time for us. >> well, great to be with you. thank you. >> let me first just get your top-line reaction to this nationwide injunction from a federal judge who took on this -- has been hearing this case from 14 states, telling the postal service they need to reverse these changes immediately. >> well, i applaud the decision. i think it's a very good decision it was clear from the report that we put out this week that there was definitely problems with the delivery of mail, that on-time delivery was down dramatically in fact, when you look at when those procedures went in place during the five weeks following that, we found that roughly 350 million pieces of first class mail were delayed. you saw significant drops of on-time delivery it's what i was hearing from the men and women who work every day, our mail carriers, our letter carriers, our postal workers, who were saying they were putting policies in place that was slowing down the delivery of mail and something that they take great pride in

and were concerned and thn we looked at the data, and the data was very clear that there was definitely a slowdown. we still haven't seen a complete recovery despite some statements made by the postal service that they suspended this. we have to be vigilant we have to keep an eye on it i think the judge's ruling is very helpful to make sure what postmaster general dejoy said was going to happen will actually happen. >> and, senator peters, i was struck by the parallel in this case and in the judge's ruling about it tonight, not just that the slowdown -- that these changes have effectuated a slowdown as you described, 350 million pieces of first-clas mail slowed down by these processes. i was also struck by your finding that it seemed to be worse in specific areas and in areas that seemed particularly worrying given what's coming up in terms of the november election your report found that on-time rates fell more than 20 points

in northern ohio, nearly 20 points, 19 points in detroit, 18 points in central pennsylvania is that coincidence that these areas that seemed to be the hardest hit, a lot of them are areas that are really the bull's-eye in terms of where this election is going to be contested, or did you find any other reason that might explain that >> i don't think -- i don't have a reason, and we were asking that question right from the get-go i heard from thousands of people all across michigan who were saying that they're seeing delays in mail that they'd never experienced before so i thought it was important to know, was this widespread? was it all over the state of michigan was it all over the country? was is selected areas? as you know, michigan, we are one of the battleground states both for the presidential race as well as my race for the u.s. senate this is going to be a very high-profile place, and what we found is that the delays in delivery in michigan were primarily in the greater detroit area

you didn't see the same kind of delays outstate. in fact, during the height of it, roughly only 60% of mail was being delivered on time. that means half of the mail was delayed. what we're still trying to find out and we haven't been able to get this information from the postal service is how long were those delays certainly i've been hearing from people here in michigan, they were many days and i'm concerned not just about the election, as important as that is. mail is critical, and you know, think of prescription drugs, people who rely on having drugs delivered to them on time. i heard from a mother whose daughter needed medicine to deal with her epileptic seizures and expected to get the mail in three days it didn't come it didn't come it was nine days before it was delivered. her daughter became fearful that she wouldn't have the medicine she started to reduce her dosage and ended up suffering a seizure and was hospitalized on-time delivery of mail is absolutely critical for everybody in michigan and all

across the country, and this is simply unacceptable to have these policies put in place by the postmaster general, and he has not provided any data to us or analysis that went into making these changes and the broader question is why would you make these kinds of changes when we're in the middle of a pandemic, when mail delivery is absolutely critical for folks. this is not the time to be making these changes, particularly without having analysis to kind of anticipate as to what the impact would be >> u.s. senator gary peters of the great state of michigan. sir, thank you for helping us understand what you and your committee were able to find on this but i will say the more granular you get in terms of these individual stories, the more enraging this story is it's enraging in terms of good government but enraging all the more when you think about the impact on individual people. sir, thanks for helping us understand thanks for your work on this. >> my pleasure thanks for having me on. >> all right much more ahead.

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"the new york times" that the trump administration published guidance on coronavirus testing last month as if those guidelines were from the cdc, even though the cdc didn't write those guidelines and their scientists actually objected to them, that news from "the new york times" tonight comes on the heels last night of michael caputo leaving the top spokesman job at the department of health and human services mr. caputo has no health background whatsoever. he was a trump campaign aide but once the trump white house installed him at hhs, mr. caputo reportedly demanded all sorts of changes to the cdc's scientific output, including their previously sacrosanct weekly scientific reports mr. caputo reportedly delayed the publication of cdc guidance about the risk of covid in schools and school-like environments because of the risk that might undermine the president's messaging that all schools should be opened regardless of the coronavirus crisis well, mr. caputo is now gone with him gone, i guess, that means there's nobody standing in the way of cdc reports like this

one, which has finally just come out. a study of whether covid can spread among kids in child care environments and in schools and according to this brand-new released study from the cdc, school-aged kids cannot only spread the virus between each other in the classroom, they're also then very capable of taking the virus home with them, taking the virus out of the classroom to infect other people in their homes, including the adults at home, even if they are asymptomatic when they bring the virus from the classroom back to where they live. and what that data means, the reason that study is so important, is that the decision to reopen schools in this country for in-person learning, i mean, it's a front-and-cente consideration for when if comes to preventing community transmission in any community. and on that point, there was a

sort of dramatic standoff that started last week in the great state of iowa. that state's republican governor, kim reynolds, has ordered -- she has directed that all counties must resume in-person learning as long as they meet a set of criteria that she has announced. well, in iowa, the des moines public school district said that they were not comfortable with that they would essentially defy the governor's order that des moines was not in good enough shape, not in good enough position in terms of the pandemic that they'd be safe holding in-person school despite the governor's order. well, that was the case as of last week. this week the school district voted to keep going with that same decision to effectively defy the governor and stick with remote learning instead despite her insistence that kids go to in-person class. this fight over iowa schools opening, it's not a problem that started in iowa with governor reynolds i mean, this is what happens

when leaders all the way up to the president himself bang the drums for schools to reopen and for kids to take off their masks while you're at it, right? promising that it will all just go away. the governor of iowa has been sort of following the president's lead on issues like this, but the des moines public school district is responsible for the kids in des moines public schools and so far they say they are not doing it joining us now is thomas ahart he is the superintendent of dimon public schools it's a real pleasure to have you with us tonight. thanks for your service in the schools and thanks for being here. >> it's nice to be here with you. >> so i've tried to put this in a little bit of a national context, but i'm sure that distorts it a little bit from the statewide perspective. can you just in your own words explain a little bit of the decision-making that you and your colleagues have made about what you decided to do here and the cover flikt this se

the conflict this sets up with your governor? >> yeah. we had to put a return-to-lear plan together early this summer, announced it to our community on july 1st at that time we were closely monitoring the covid-19 station in polk county where most of des moines public schools resides and we were trying to take our best guess as to what the conditions would be when we started school conditions over the summer continued to worsen, and in fact at the time of school starting, we were one of the two or three top hot spots in the country near that time, we decided to attempt to buy some time, so we delayed the start of the school year till september 8th, and w filed for a waiver with the state department to allow us to operate in a virtual manner for two weeks and hope that things would improve. that has not happened. we filed for an injunction in polk county district court in an effort to allow us to be held harmless while we operated virtually until such time as we thought it was safe to return students and staff into schools safely

>> the governor has set some thresholds that she thinks are the right tripwires for whether or not schools should be held in person and for other coronavirus restrictions, and they're not in line with the sorts of thresholds that we've heard from -- for example, from w.h.o. or from other governors who have tried to set these sort of numerical thresholds she set what seemed to be very high numerical thresholds for when a community should essentially be deemed safe to further open up. has that been part of the point of contention here have you been able to engage with the governor at all why it's not safe to have in-person schooling and she said you should >> we have engaged with the governor and her representatives on a number of occasions going back to early july we don't have an understanding of why the metrics that the

state is putting forth are set where they are what we have been studying and learning from well-reputed consultants tells us a different story, so we desperately want to be in compliance with the state. but at the top of our priority list is ensuring that we're keeping our students and our staff and their families safe, and what we do in des moines because of our size has a broad-ranging impact in the entire des moines metro area and we feel a special responsibility in that regard as well >> i know this is such a fraught, personal, serious thing for every family i mean, even if you don't have kids, your friends who have kids and your friends who are kids, this is the most important thing in the world right now, and the mass dislocation and the uncertainty and the -- just the

unknown and the scariness and the various competing stakeholders and everything, this is just an incredibly difficult decision i just have to ask, being sort of at the tip of the spear here as the superintendent of des moines public schools, having this tough decision to make and having this confrontation over what you think is right, how has it been? >> well, you know, it's -- i think our community has shown tremendous grace, and our staff has been remarkably flexible and adaptive we've had a fantastic start to the year, and while none of us would hope to have all of our students in a virtual environment, i think we're executing that real well but the pressure is certainly mounting, you know there's -- we're the only district in the state that has remained all virtual without a waiver certainly that's not where we want to be, out of compliance with state law, and we continue to look for opportunities to find enough flexibility such

that we feel confident that we are doing our due diligence in protecting the safety of our students and our staff while also being in compliance with state law. at this particular juncture, it looks like we're at a -- we continue to be at a crossroads, but we'll continue to reach ou and look for opportunities to partner with the state and find a way through this >> thomas ahart, the superintendent of des moines public schools in iowa, again, thank you for your service and i know this is a really hard place to be. good luck to you and keep us apprised i know it's an ongoing situation. keep us apprised, sir. >> yeah. will do. thank you. >> all right we'll be right back. stay with us

we opened the show tonight with news from "the new york times" about the administration putting out last month what they said were new cdc guidelines on coronavirus testing. turns out those guidelines were not actually written by the cdc. the administration wrote them themselves and put them out under the cdc's name despite objections from the cdc that they did not agree with them and that they were bad science great scoop tonight from "the times" and a terrible development in terms of how this administration is shredding the credibility of our public health agencies at the time we need them most. well, tomorrow night we are going to have a special report here on this show about something else that has gone very, very wrong with public

health agencies in this country and the administration it's something that is previously unreported. we're finishing the reporting on it tonight we will have it for you tomorrow night. i hope you will be there for us. that's going to do it for us until then we'll see you again then no social distancing and few masks. the president holds another campaign rally, this time in wisconsin, a state that's now in the middle of a record-breaking surge in covid cases. also a new report of political interference at the cdc, this one concerning covid guidelines supposedly from the agency but not written by the agency we'll explain. and democratic presidential nominee joe biden steps up his attacks on the president, saying trump should step down for his handling of the pandemic