hi, everyone it's 4:00 in the east. as we wait for remarks from joe biden who is expected to address voters in minnesota any moment, it's as biden takes his presidential campaign deep into trump territory with a new troll of the president meant to reveal trump as the gold plated toilet bowl owner living in new york city penthouses on his father's wealth that he is. >> i view this -- i really do view this campaign as a campaign between scranton and park avenue and i really mean it because, you know, the way we were raised up here in this area, awful lot of hard-working people busting their neck all they ask for is a shot just a shot. all that trump could see from

park avenue is wall street all he thinks about is the stock market telling them, we're going to do all right. everybody own stock. how many of you all own stock? my neighborhood in scranton, not a whole lot of people own stock. >> joe biden woke up to good news in the polls today from "the new york times"/siena poll out this morning he has a nine-point advantage in arizona. a 17-point advantage in maine and a 1-point lead in north carolina trump has effectively instructed his supporters to commit felly voter fraud by voting twice. in the swing states, mr. trump is still lagging across the board. "the times" polled seven presidential battlegrounds in the last two weeks, and the president has not led in any of them in no state did he amass more than 44% of the vote though he has repeatedly tried to shift the folk aurks way from the virus, he has not established a meaningful advantage over mr. biden on any issue of equal urgency a grim political reality for the

president on the first day of early voting in four u.s. states, including virginia where we're already seeing voters lining up at the polls to cast their ballots well ahead of election day joe biden has in the weeks since the convention blunted all of trump's efforts to get on offense in the polls at this point that bear this out first by turning trump's law and order message against him. second, by turning trump's covid failures into messages that seem to be connecting with voters around the failure to contain the virus in time for kids to go back to school safely, or for businesses to reopen confidently. but most interesting perhaps is biden's new effort at turning trump's attempt to paint him as a hostage at the liberal elite around on trump. >> we're used to guys who look down their nose at us. or looked at people who look at us and think we're sucksuckers thing we're not equivalent to them if you didn't have a college degree, you must be stupid

if you didn't get to go to an ivy school i tell you what bothered me to tell you the truth maybe it's my scranton roots, i don't know but when you guys started talking on television about biden if he wins, will be the first person without an ivy league degree to be elected president. who the hell makes you think i have to have an ivy league to be president. i mean it. i found my backup. no, i'm not joking i'm not joking guys like me, the first in my family to go to college up here my dad busted his neck we are as good as anybody else and guys like trump who inherited everything and squandered what they inherited are the people that i've always had a problem with not the people who are busting their neck >> donald trump and his family and his allies and his friends in the media have run against the liberal elites overtly and subliminally for years and if joe biden is able to strip trump of this appeal to voters who

side with him because they think he annoys the elites, it would represent a significant advantage for joe biden. for his part, donald trump threw more gas into the culture wars by announcing he'd launch a patriotic curriculum in schools. it's really an effort to fight against anti-racist education. biden's mo and trumps attempts to hang on are where we start today with john heilemann, plus former democratic senator claire mccaskill is back and the rev al sharpt orngs ho sharpton, host of "politics nation" and president of the national action network. we follow the outrageous things jump has said when they find their way to the atlantic and bob woodward's book because they deserve attention but there are less flashy structural things going on, and i think this move on joe biden's part to say i'm not the elite. you're the elite mr. gold plated toilet bowl living on park

avenue is fascinating. >> winner winner chicken dinner for joe biden. what he did last night, by firmly facing his really working class roots in a working class town, a non-ivy league education and talking about donald trump who, think about this, who buys a gold toilet? who needs a gold toilet? who needs mirrors? >> donald trump. >> gold fixtures i mean gold fixtures on his private jet. you know, who does that? i mean, it is someone who is all in to the elite trappings, who brags about where he went to college and who lives on park avenue in a fancy schmancy place. that isn't joe biden, and joe biden needs to talk about that because most voters relate to who joe biden is, not donald trump. so this is, i think, a really smart pivot, especially at this

moment of the campaign >> you know, john heilemann, it's so smart, i wonder what took him so long >> yeah, right i mean i think it's -- look, there's a lot of things to say about this, but one of them, to come back to a topic you and i have discussed hi happy friday how are you doing? >> hi. happy friday >> she surprised me with that short -- you surprised me with that short question. i was waiting for a -- i was waiting for a soliloquy or something. >> no, no. i wanted to hear you >> we've been talking about two things for a long time, you and me on this show. one of them is the strength biden has in the category of cares about people like us, right? and that that's not just an empathy thing. that's a class thing that's a whole bunch of things but it's a powerful thing in a presidential election. the other thing we've talked

about is trump has maintained this stubborn advantage on the economy which is also a powerful thing. it's one of the things that wins elections and traditionally democrats win when they win on the economy and when they don't have an advantage on the economy, they don't win. i see this move as the way to try to -- another attempt to try to solve that second thing which is a problem for the biden campaign by leveraging the first thing, right this is a way of trying to turn populist working class empathy into an advantage on economics, right? they still are trying to -- they know if they can win this economic argument, the race is pretty much over because he leads on every other metric, right? so what's the right way for joe biden to get into that if trump's advantage on the economy is strength in some way and a false kind of a pointing to -- it's unrelatable if you think about it he points to the stock market. the stock market is doing great.

biden is saying, wait a second most people don't own stock. and so he's using that kind of -- his biography and his working class credentials to remind people that trump's strength on the economy is like everything else with trump it's paper thin. and i think that driving through his biography and his connection to the people of scranton and people like the people in scranton might be the right pathway to try to get at this last bastion of trump's strength in the categories that will determine the election >> you know, i was half joking, rev, when i said it's so smart what took him so long? but heilemann makes the important political point, of course, that structurally, the only thing holding donald trump up, and some of these states he is still very much in striking distance this race is far from over donald trump four years ago benefited from a hidden trump voter. who knows what that number is

this time around, his conduct is so reprehensible i'm sure that dynamic exists today. although our colleague garrett haake talked about a hidden biden vote this time around. but this idea that if joe biden can come in and get behind the economic anxiety people feel because of the instability that the pandemic has created and the failure on trump's part to contain it and sort of top that off with, you know, i'm not the elite. he's the elite look how he lives, what he cares about. he's talking about the stock market, not your bottom line or businesses on main street. it really would be a political accomplishment these final 45, 46 days. >> the effectiveness of it is to really say that he is not what he claims to be and that i am. and you must remember the real smart part about this that i feel is donald trump ran on --

he rose in politics on birtherism that barack obama was not one of us it was racial undertones but also the culture war he's not one of us what joe biden started today is saying to a lot of working class americans, even some in the suburbs who worked their way out there, donald trump is not one of us. he's an elitist. he lives in a world that we can't live he doesn't feel what we feel he doesn't know what we know he is an elitist he's an ivy league guy that lives on fifth avenue. even when he talked about shooting someone, it was on fifth avenue, and if he is able to rob from him the weapon that he's used that i am y'all and that obama is not one of us or hillary is not one of us, now joe biden has turned that on his head and says, look at him he's not one of us and the more voters in the midwest and in the middle class, working class,

white america look at donald trump they'll say, he's right. he's not one of us we don't have all of those doo-dads and all of this glitzy life and i think that that can be a very effective campaign and it could end up with him covering a lot of ground that he now is real tight in and could really elevate his poll numbers and elevate people at the polls. >> and claire, the best political attacks have the benefit of being true. they are empirically true and the truth is joe biden was not the democratic sort of selection of the liberal elites. they were much more jazzed about elizabeth warren and even bernie sanders and cory booker. he was about eighth or ninth on the list you and i sat together i remember when the nevada caucuses were under way and there were all sorts of people messaging both of us you more than me sort of writing joe biden's political eulogy so his base of support really

is -- it started in south carolina and his base is much more grassroots. this message might work because it is true >> yeah, and that's one of the things i think people need to realize in today's modern politics there's two things you have to do when you poll something you have to poll the issue and then if it's an attack you have to say do you believe this attack because the problem trump has now, he has built this campaign on saying that joe biden is somehow incompetent and incapable of physically or mentally handling the job. and every day, like last night, joe biden showed america that trump is not telling the truth that, of course he can handle this job of course he can answer questions. in fact, if you put the two tapes up, the one who looks like he can't handle anything is the guy who is thinking there's a herd mentality you know, so it is really --

it's really interesting to me that you have to have an attack that is believable and trump hasn't come up with one on joe biden yet >> let me do that, claire. let me play the two tapes. >> it is going to disappear. it's going to disappear. it would go away without the vaccine, george. but it's going to go away a lot faster you'll develop like a herd mentality. it's going to be herd developed and that's going to happen that will all happen >> all the way back and i was on one of your shows. all the way back in march i was calling for the need for us to have masks, have the president stand and tell us what's going on but he knew it he knew it and did nothing that's close to criminal his own cdc director contradicted him recently. he said if, in fact, you just wore this mask, nothing else but this mask, you would save between now and january another

100,000 lives. and so we have to be honest with the american people. they're tough. >> you know, claire, the problem with running out and saying man, camera, tamale all the time is you lay out this narrative that joe biden can't say man, woman, tamale joe biden can memorize five words and can be briefed he's come out the last few days after briefing with scientists and understands the manufacturing and developing a vaccine that will protect us but of distributing it across the world population donald trump who is locked in a warp of words right now with his own cdc director cannot understand the science behind first developing a vaccine and then rolling it out. and i bet my last dollar more than a few people have tried to explain it to him. >> no question about it. and you have to chuckle at some

of the social media stuff last night where people were saying, well, someone must have given him the topics he was prepared for the topics you would expect running for president of the united states he was prepared on climate change he was prepared on the economy he was prepared on health care he was prepared on covid the people who support trump are so unaccustomed to trump having any idea what he's talking about that they think there's a fix in when the president is fully prepared on the subjects he needs to understand, trust experts and lead on at this time >> that's an interesting point, john heilemann you and i spent so much time talking about the structural underpinnings of this race and on empathy, it was never going to be a contest. but i wonder if when you see donald trump not even capable of listening to a woman who is in tears talking about how her

mother's cancer metastasized before she could come to the town hall and ask her question and he starts blatherring about covid. i wonder if he turns the competence issue he raised back on himself watch this what was happening to trump? >> mr. vice president, this is sheila, a registered nurse from scranton a republican who voted for trump in 2016. she's also the widow of a police officer who lost his life last year to cancer caused by toxins at the site of the world trade center i'm very sorry for your loss and very happy you're here >> if there are any angels in heaven, they're all nurses docs let you live. nurses make you want to live male and female, so thank you for what you do. >> she had breast cancer but it metastasized on her brain, bones and lungs.

one of her biggest goals was to become a citizen, and she did. days before she died and i -- she needed to push me to do it >> that just shows how vicious the covid is especially when you have another problem you have another type of a problem. did you have covid you didn't have it, right? your mother. well, have it taken care of. it's going to get taken care of. >> so john heilemann, obviously, there was a more sound from joe biden there, too, making the contrast even more starkly, but the ability -- the inability on trump's part to listen seems to make worse his inability to empathize. >> right and i -- well, i also -- think about what claire was saying, she was talking about

preparation. what i found super interesting about that town hall with george stephanopoulos was it put trump in an unusual and uncomfortable position which is to say he had to perform as a candidate in front of a non-maga crowd. it was like a town hall meeting with undecided voters. that's stuff donald trump doesn't do very much anymore basically, obviously, the covid thing has meant no one is performing in public all that much but trump's whole 3 1/2 years has been dominated by a particular kind of performance style which he enjoys and which he feeds off of and which energizes him, which is the rally. going in front of the hard core, the base, the die hards who love him and shower him with affection and he loves to get up and do his thing we think he looks like fat elvis, but he gets off on it, they get off on it but this was an unusual thing for him to be in a normal presidential campaign setting, which is, you know -- and i think it showed how weak he is in that -- and how uncomfortable

and unfamiliar he now finds himself in that kind of a setting. and i raise this for me. the kind of profound question of, what's going to happen in these three debates because these three debates, joe biden went through a lot of debates in the democratic nomination fight. he did well in some. did poorly in others but he did a lot of them he did a lot of them and recently and you know having work forward george w. bush that generally, incumbent presidents who have been off the campaign trail, out of debates for four years, they usual lly get their clock cleand in the first debate by the challenger yet this race, because trump is behind is sort of -- he's betting it all on the notion he's going to be able to knock joe biden down a peg in that debate and there's nothing about trump's performance at that town hall that suggests he's going to be a strong performer on the debate stage in a debate that matters to him more than anything in the world between now and election day

>> all right let's listen to joe biden here >> -- from covid to unemployment to a country that is divided along these -- is being divided along race lines we have institutional racism we're dealing with a whole range of things. and the people of minnesota know that they have two of the best senators in the country on their side and, matt, thank you so much for that introduction and for showing me around today. this incredible apprentice program here at the carpenter's training center. what a lot of people don't know if they're not involved with labor is apprenticeship program is not only training the best workers in the world i'm not being facetious. that's a fact. but they get paid while they're doing it they are getting paid while -- not full wage but they're getting paid while doing it. and that's why these union apprenticeship programs are so, so critically important.

they stay this way it matters people who still make it while they're learning a trade a trade that's going to put them in good stead the rest of their lives. it was great to see some of the practical hands-on experience that apprentices and journeymen and women here receive and while, as i said, earning a wage as a benefit. you know, it's a bit quieter here because -- than usual because of covid-19 restrictions but the pride of these workers who are learning the skills that will carry them throughout their careers is still unmistakable. my father, and i apologize for the press that follows me for repeating this, but my dad used to have an expression. he'd say, joey, your job is about a lot more than a paycheck it's about your dignity. it's about respect it's about your place in the community. and he'd end by saying, it's

about being able to look your kid in the eye and say, honey, it's going to be okay, and mean it you know, that's the lesson i've never forgotten. it's the way i grew up surrounded by hard working families in scranton, pennsylvania, and a lot of steel workers in delaware. all those jobs are gone now, those steel workers jobs and that's what i saw here at this training center dedicated women and men investing in their dignity and their dignity. here in the iron range, we can see the resilience and great communities that built america the mettle they're made of and fortified by the strength of union power, worker power. i think i was saying to you that, you know, my dad had another expression the only way to deal with the abuse of power is with power and the only real power for workers in america is union power. you are the folks that keep the

barbarian at the other side of the gate from making sure people can make a decent living and folks, but here, like everywhere else, times are hard. unemployment is way up due to the pandemic fewer workers can be on the job at one time in order to abide by social distancing rules. and the economic outlook for next year, including for the building trades is more uncertainty than it need be. here in minnesota, and all across the country, there are plenty of folks who are hurting. they are worried about making their next mortgage payment. keeping their rent amounts in check. they see the people at the top of the heap doing very well. and incredible number. billion ea yoionaires in americg this pandemic have made another $3 billion in the middle of the pandemic, they are left to wonder as a

consequence, ordinary folks, who is looking out for me? you know, that's been the entire story of donald trump's presidency and now in the midst of this unprecedented national crises, trump has given up on even pretending to do his job almost 200,000 lives lost in the last six months. and experts tell us now the same studies that the administration has relied on to predict what's coming next that we're going to lose another 215,000 lives between now and january 1st. the united states has lost another 36,000 new covid cases per day. per day. another average thousand deaths a day. just across the border, figuratively speaking, a stone's throw into canada, one day earlier this month, the united states had 1,000 deaths of

covid. canada had zero. just two days ago, three days ago, i believe it was, america had 1,200 deaths canada had 9 9. so many lives lost unnecessarily because the president is only worried about the stock market and his re-election. he refused to do what you're doing right here in this program. social distance. wear a mask. sanitize you are protecting your apprentices. he's not protecting america. it's estimated by the scientists that if we just wore masks nationally, we'd save 100,000 lives between now and january 1st. let me say that again. if we just wore masks nationally, we'd save 100,000 lives between now and january according to the same study.

it was estimated by a great medical school, columbia medical school, that if the president had just started one week earlier in march than he did, we'd have 36,000 more people sitting at the dinner table tonight or being able to put your arm around grandpa or grandma tonight. and again, in his own words, recorded by bob woodward, the president knew back in february that this was an extremely dangerous communicable disease think about it how many people across the iron range? how many empty chairs around those tables because of his negligence and selfishness how many lies said and lives lost imagine if he had just -- on the

state of the union that year spoke up and said we've got a problem. we can handle it here's what we've got to do. i can't think of any president who has ever acted, in my view, so selfishly about his own re-election instead of his sworn obligation to protect and defend the american people. as i said last night in my hometown, i view this campaign as between scranton and park avenue all trump sees from park avenue is wall street that's why the only metric of the american prosperity for him is the value of the dow jones. like a lot of you, i spent a lot of my life with guys like donald trump looking down on me looking down on the people who make a living of with their

hands. people who take care of our kids clean our streets. maybe what bothers me most is the way he talks about -- reportedly talks about from too many sources confirmed by many outlets, the way he's talked about the men and women who join the military and gave the full measure for their country as suckers and losers unless you think it's made up, remember how he talked about john mccain. political opponent but a close friend who i did his eulogy. john mccain was no sucker or loser. he was a hero. my son, who volunteered and spent a year in iraq, won the bronze star. he wasn't a loser or sucker. he was a proud patriot

these are the guys that always thought they were better than me, better than us because they had a lot of money guys inherit everything they got and still manage to squander it. i have to admit, which i guess is coming out pretty obvious, particularly relative to trump, i just have a little bit of my -- a little bit of a chip on my shoulder about these guys recently -- i probably shouldn't have said that last night, but i did. recently, i read some stories and was asked questions about leading columnists that went like this. you know if you get elected, you'll be the first guy in a long time elected president without an ivy league degree like somehow a kid who went to a

state university didn't qualify to be president of the united states didn't have an ivy league degree let me tell you something, i know how to do the job of being president. it's pretty clear. no matter how wealthy donald trump is, no matter how much he doctors his -- if he does -- his tax returns, he doesn't have a clue how to be president one of the lessons my mother taught me, not a joke, a long time ago taught me and my siblings, you were probably taught too out here in minnesota. joey, remember, nobody is better than you but everybody is your equal. nobody is better than you. everybody is your equal. we don't measure people by the size of their bank accounts. i don't respect people based on

how big the house they live in is i don't look down my nose when people are busting their necks just making a living nor do any of you. trump says, by the way, i'm paraphrasing everyone is in the stock market. that's why he cares about the stock market what the hell is he talking about? people i grew up with in scranton, they don't have money in stocks. every penny we made was to pay the bills and take care of the families put clothe on the back and a roof over our head and the market that's why i have a different measure of which i judge the healthy american economy and my measure is scranton duluth hermantown places where i grew up that so many people i know grew up i see hard-working women and men

just trying to earn an honest, decent living to take cake of their families and just have a little bit of confidence and you just see around the corner but i don't have to live literally from paycheck to paycheck most do, but hope for a little bit of space now the american people have seen these women and men, the essential workers. workers who stock the shelves in the middle of these crises, drivers that drove the trucks, delivered the food farm workers nurses who risked their lives and in many cases gave their lives in the middle of this pandemic to save other people. essential workers. and when they walk down the streets and people come out and clap pans and pots together to tell them how much they're appreciated, that's not enough we're just -- they're not asking for anything they're just asking for a shot

and i remind you, given a shot, the american people have never, ever, ever let their country down so it's about time we start to pay essential workers for the fact that they're essential. the blinders have been taken off the american people. i think they're ready. they're ready to insist that a minimum wage be $15 an hour. they are ready to insist that people have child care and access to it they are ready to admit and understand the needs that average americans have that's why my build back better plan, in fact, my entire campaign, is built upon a simple concept. it's time to reward hard work in america, not wealth. reward work, not wealth. don't have to penalize wealth, but it's the opposite now. we reward wealth and not work. we're going to have to rebuild an economy in the wake of

covid-19, and as we, do we have an incredible opportunity to make long overdue investments for working families and to make sure the wealthy, the very wealthy and the big corporations finally begin to pay their fair share i'm not looking to punish anybody. just pay your fair share it's time we give hard-working families who built the country through their skills and sweat and blood like the united brotherhood of carpenters and joiners a leg up for once. i have a big, ambitious plan that bets on the american worker my bill will create millions of good-paying jobs building the technologies that we need now and in the future. and it starts with a pretty basic idea when the government spends taxpayers' money, we should spend that money to buy american

products made by american workers and american supply chains to generate american growth and opportunity my plan would tighten the rules to make buy american a reality during my first term alone, we're going to invest $400 billion of federal money that you go out and spend, that i have control over as the president or an administration to invest and purchase products and materials our country needs to modernize infrastructure. to replenish critical stockpiles to enhance our national security i was just going through the apprentice program with one of your carpenters. he was showing me how to read blueprints and i'm a frustrated architect i just love building my kids years ago bought me a light board. i have no -- no professional

training but i like, and i carry around a graph paper. i'm always making up and designing homes and landscapes it's my way out. some people can paint. i can't. and showing me the blueprints and how they can change several walls in a particular building to conserve and save energy. and he pointed out what you have to learn to be able to read a blueprint. i pointed out to him that my buy american plan -- he said, by the way, not me, this carpenter said, and by the way, we can kill two birds with one stone. we can do two things at once he said we can improve the environment by using less energy to operate this building and create more jobs i said i'm going to send you a copy of my plan. my buy american -- build america

plan calls for literally what we started in our administration and couldn't finish retrofitting 4 million buildings in america that are leaking millions of gallons of energy now. and the process creating the 4 million jobs for skilled labor, replacing windows, insulation that works, making sure that the unit is tight, including retrofitting 2 million homes all of it done at a prevailing wage with union labor. creating hundreds of thousands of union certified jobs. that's not hyperbole that's a fact. that's how it will happen.

and saving millions of barrels of oil in the process. improving our environment. that's why the ibw and a lot of other unions support what we're doing. we're going to put in 500,000 charging stations along our highways why? so we can own -- own -- own the electric car market. estimated creating a million new jobs in michigan and detroit in the automobile industry. look, we can outcompete anybody if we set our mind to it you know, my infrastructure plan is going to revitalize american infrastructure so the future is made in america. the president keeps talking about he's going to invest in infrastructure, right? how many times has he said, he had a plan in '17, his infrastructure plan, it's coming then he had one in '18

then he had one in '19 then he has one for '20. just like his nonexistent health care plan that's coming next week he has no plan when i got started, this wasn't a partisan issue dealing with infrastructure republicans wanted to build solid infrastructure now we rank 28th just like democrats did. totally nonpartisan. and creating thousands and thousands and thousands of good-paying jobs we're going to invest over time $2 trillion to build resilient infrastructure roads, bridges, ports, right here along with this great, great lakes. 1.4 million affordable housing units. high-speed broadband for every american household, more

important than ever as we're educating our children from home because there's no plan to open our schools. $100 billion to rebuild crumbling schools. how many schools do you think there are where you can't safely drink the water in the water fountain where they are worried about whether or not there is enough ventilation in the school. whether there's leaking energy or still has hazardous materials in the walls it's ridiculous. we should be spending the money to improve those schools and the safety of our children and our teachers as i said, retrofitting 4 million buildings and weatherizing 2 million homes the way we do that is with the tax credits that we'll give them again, all done by certified union labor. look, i'll fight for workers and unions at every step requiring all federal infrastructure

projects to one, pay prevailing wage, so collective bargaining is in place before the project starts employ workers from registered apprenticesh apprenticeships. i won't water them down like trump tried to do. pass the pro act to try to crack down on employers trying to block or break down unions i'll do it without raising anyone's taxes if you make less than $400,000 a year i give you my word you have nothing to worry about if you make less than $400,000 if you make more, you'll start to pay your fair share no one who makes less than $400,000 is going to pay a single penny more in taxes under our administration tens of millions of middle class families will get tax cuts when they need it most. while you're raising your children, trying to get affordable health care buying your first home or saving for retirement almost directly after president trump passed his tax bill in 2017, almost $2 trillion increased the deficit, he went

down to mar-a-lago and he said to his guest tlrkss ahere, you t a lot richer, end of quote he was right they got a hell of a lot richer. how about the person making $50,000, $60,000, or even the family making $120,000 a year. how much did you get how much richer did you get? it may be the only time he's told the plain truth in his entire presidency. 2018, the year after that tax cut passed, 91 corporations in the fortune 500 paid no income tax. zero tax zero making billions of dollars paying zero tax. i guess you guys got all your tax eliminated too, right?

he said he was going to be the lowest -- he was going to lower the cost of prescription drugs guess what instead, big pharma got billions in tax cuts, sent their manufacturing to those -- of those drugs overseas then unconsionably -- so they would be cheaper for them to produce. raised the price for ordinary americans. how many of you people knew your mother's, fathers, uncles, aunts, friends had to choose between getting a prescription not a joke, and putting dinner on the table and now he says he's going to cut drug prices. like he was going to have a health care plan all he's done, and this big thing about calling on drug prices cut, all he's done, he sent to the hhs, health and human services, to -- he said study the issue.

i have a clear plan. i guarantee i will lower prices in america for drugs by allowing medicare to negotiate drug prices, which he said he would do the house and senate were ready to do it, and he said he'd veto it if he got it. if you want to participate in a medicare program, you got to negotiate with medicare. the price of that drug significantly lower prices and for any new specialty drugs that don't have competition that are launched, i'm sending up a review board to recommend aing regional price based on the board's recommendation that price will not be able to be increased beyond the cost of medical inflation unless they can prove they've gone and done some more research and changed the nature of the drug and now astonishingly, when my staff told me this, i know both the senators knew this, but when they told me this, i said, he can't be proposing this.

he now is proposing in this budget another multibillion-dollar tax cut for the very wealthy millionaires and billionaires here's what he wants to do he wants to lower the capital gains tax down to 15%. to 15% every one of you, including the reporters in this report, unless you're making a lot more than i think you are, every one of you is going to be paying at a higher tax rate than someone making a billion bucks off their investment you'll pay a higher tax rate because they make their money by investing, not by the sweat of their brow another tax cut worth billions of dollars

and whose hyde do you think that's going to come out of? the deficit is already bonkers where do you think it's going to come out of? come out of you and the programs and things that help the american people. like i said, it's about time we start rewarding work, not wealth look, i'm not looking to punish anybody, but it's about time the superwealthy and corporate america start paying their fair share. that's all it is just pay their fair share. so hard working families can start getting a break on child care, elder care, buying that first home when the cost of education beyond high school, being able to get started in life and by the way, all this is going on, donald trump is trying to rip away your health care i got a new health care program. i'm going to protect pre-existing condition he's in the supreme court saying get rid of pre-existing

conditions they should not. they should be able to stand in the way of you getting insurance because it helps insurance companies. and as a gimmick, he's got a new one. he's going to end the payroll tax that you pay in social security yet the actuary at the social security says if that were to occur, social security will be bankrupt by the middle of 2023 you may get a few more bucks in your paycheck and then tell your mom and dad social security is about to come to an end. never liked social security and medicare to begin with so look, we can't let this happen the social security run dry by 2023 we're so much better than this this is the united states of

america. we have never, ever, ever been unable to do something when we've done it together never. so it's time to stand up democrats and republicans. i said last night and i know my colleagues know sometimes democrats get mad at this. i'm running as a democrat, but i'm going to be president of the united states. not president of the democratic party. we must unite this country it's the only way we can move forward. and i believe the american people are ready for it. and i believe in half a dozen or a dozen of our republican colleagues who have been unable or unwilling to take him on because he's so vindictive with him gone, i think they're ready to work. not on everything, but an awful lot. time to take the country back, folks. and it's going to start here today with voting in minnesota

so god bless you all, and may god protect our troops thank you, thank you, thank you. >> we've been watching joe biden. he was speaking at a carpenters training center in hermantown, minnesota. rev, this seems to be the new stump speech joe biden refusing to be pigeon holed by trump and his allies as someone who is going to be part of the liberal elite that trump's been running against his whole career taking everything he must have heard from supporters, from voters and from other strategists that if he can defeat donald trump on the question of, in whose hands is our economy best served, he wins this thing >> clearly that is what we're going to hear from now on, and

clearly joe biden has the persona and the background to back it up i do not see how donald trump runs against that because donald trump can take a few extreme position and say i'm not part of the liberal not part of the liberal elite, but he can't say he's not a super rich elite. that is what he's sold, his glitzy image is going to come back to bite him in the hind parts politically. and i think that joe biden is driving a mack truck through that opening it is very clear that most americans are going to relate to that because most americans need medicaid and want to see infrastructure development and want to see their kids go to schools that work and donald trump has not delivered on it. but what joe biden is putting out there today and last night, that is even more effective, is that donald trump doesn't even understand to do that, because

he's not feeling what you and i have felt in life. he doesn't know about the schools and he doesn't know about the infrastructure and he doesn't know about needing medicaid or medicare because he has grown up super rich and he's beyond your and my experience. that's going to be hard for donald trump to run against. >> you know, claire, we've talked about the structural dynamics of this campaign so much, but it would appear that joe biden has internalized both the need to reverse this measure around who is best for the economy and to inject all the material available to all of us that donald trump made the coronavirus what it is today, by not caring about the coronavirus injanuary and february when he knew it was deadly, he knew it was contagious, and he admitted that he was lying about those things

all of our economic despair right now is because we didn't kick coronavirus' butt back in january and february when we had the opportunity to joe biden seems to have figured out how to connect those failures to today's economic pain. >> under the overarching umbrella of integrity, competency and, in fact, empathy, he said really basically three simple things. one, we're going to reward work, not wealth two, we're going to protect your health and by the way, donald trump didn't deliver for you because he can't see you and, you know, that is basically the message from most americans want to hear right now one of character, competence and empathy, trying to unite the country. and then i'm going to protect your health and i'm going to reward your work and this guy doesn't see you. he doesn't relate to you i thought the most telling

thing, the former employee of the trump administration who flipped this week, the most telling thing she told among many things she told about what happened behind closed doors, was donald trump saying, well maybe covid is a good thing because i don't have to shake those disgusting people's hands. that kind of wraps it up with a red ribbon >> it really does. john, i feel like you know what i'm coming to you with, my anxiety. i said to robert gibbs yesterday that republicans spend the last 50 days of every presidential election acting like jason borne. they're just killers in donald trump's case it's probably more like a quentin tarantino scripps. but joe biden has been a political killer he took law and order, he turned it around on trump he took the covid failures, he has tied it to schools, he has tied it to jobs, he's tied it to

the economy. he always had empathy, but as claire is saying, he has tied it to something broader and much more potentially politically advantageous do you think it's enough >> well, i think, first of all, that p you'll notice what's not here anymore and i want to note it just because it really does go back to highlight something that we've all been saying here today. but what is joe biden not doing right now as a way to try to win the economic argument? he's not doing what he was doing in june and july you don't hear him talk about build back better anymore. and the core of that is still what he's going to try to do he's going to try to build back better and there's a bunch of policy architecture to that. but where he's going now in the last six weeks is not to policy, not to white papers, not to blue books, not to stacks of proposals or legislation or

regulatory changes or tax changes. he's going to this much more visceral thing that, again, speaks to buying biography and speaks to empathy and people like you and i agree with you in the sense that a lot of democrats -- democrats are going to be nervous about this election all the way, not just to election day, but all the way until january 21st of 2021, right? but he's answered their fears, right? his performance, he's risen to each moment after the convention, each moment when people were in the democratic caucus were like, oh, no, oh, no, it's all about to fall apart. biden is about to lose it. trump has taken the lead he's changed the conversation. every time, biden has raised his game and i think that's, you know, what we know about winning candidates, that they raise their game you know, but your question, still is it enough and here is the thing. i'll tell our viewers a dirty little secret.

while we're watching joe biden and you and i are texting each other and talking about how good he's become and how he has been a political killer and how he's raised his game, we're sharing those thoughts we're both worried about the same thing, the reason it might not be enough is we both think there's a chance that trump is going to steal the election. so that's the truth. that's the thing i think that democrats as we get into this last six weeks, what democrats are going to start to really be nervous about isn't is joe biden going to fade or fall apart, is he up to the job, is he up to being the candidate we need. they're going to start to focus on the thing they should focus on, what kind of nefarious, illegal, extra legal, super legal pokery are we going to see from donald trump in the days leading up to election day and after election day that's the stuff that every american cares about this being

a free and fair election should care about and that's the stuff i think people are going to start focusing on pretty much right about now. >> now that you've shared my anxieties with the world, thank you very much for that, john and claire and the reverend al sharpton the rev has something that we want to tell all of you about. put a reminder on your calendar. former attorney general eric holder will join the rev on saturday and former trump attorney michael cohen, the michael cohen, out with i think a number one best selling book, will be on politics nation on sunday both of the shows air at 5:00 p.m. eastern right here on msnbc. still ahead for us, with the country bracing for the passing of another tragic milestone in the coronavirus pandemic, 200,000 americans lost, more news today about trump's inability to help isth country, the one he leads the next hour of deadline white house starts after a quick break. when the world gets complicated,

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it's 5:00 in the east as the country braces for another grim milestone in the coronavirus pandemic the loss of 200,000 of our fellow americans the truth is emerging on donald trump's failures to protect the country and his willful deceit about the pandemic itself. a former top aide to vice president mike pence is recounting donald trump's disgust for his own supporters in the early days of the pandemic, while joe biden is turning trump's dereliction of duty into a powerful campaign issue. >> it's all about his re-election. it should be about the american people and they're in trouble and, by the way, his own cdc director contradicted him recently he said if, in fact, you just wore this mask, nothing else but this mask, you would save between now and january another 100,000 lives. and so we have to be honest with

the american people. they're tough. as franklin roosevelt said things get worse and worse, but they can get better. you've got to level with the american people. shoot from the shoulder. this president should step down. >> and instead of battling the virus, donald trump instead is today at war with science. "the new york times" this afternoon breaking new details on the pressure campaign against the cdc, by top officials at the health and human services department, writing this, quote, several emails obtained by "the new york times" illustrate how top hhs official -- communications official micah put oh and his scientific adviser attempted to browbeat officials at the cdc at the height of the pandemic, challenging the science behind their public statements and attempting to silence agency staff. the emails seem to indicate that aides in washington were convinced of their own rosy

prognostications, even as coronavirus infections were shooting skyward then there's this from the "washington post" on trump's anger at some of the nation's top experts contradicting him. quote, robert redfield, director of the centers for disease control and prevention, is the most recent government physician or scientist to run afoul of trump's coronavirus message machine. he did so on congressional testimony wednesday, saying a vaccine green lighted later this year would probably not be available to most americans until sometime in 2021 because those most in need will get the first doses. receiptfield also said face masks are more guaranteed to protect me against covid than when i take a vaccine. politically for donald trump and the gop, "the new york times" puts it this way, quote, president trump's mismanagement of the coronavirus pandemic has

imperilled both his own re-election and his party's majority in the senate and republican lawmakers in crucial states like arizona, north carolina and maine have fallen behind their democratic challengers amid broad disapproval of the president that's according to a new poll by "the new york times" and that may have led the president to say this about the timeline for when a vaccine will be ready, even though there is no guarantee, no evidence he'll be able to stick to it. >> as soon as a vaccine is approved, the administration will deliver it to the american people immediately, distribution will begin within 24 hours after notice we'll have manufactured at least 100 million vaccine doses before the end of the year and likely much more than that. hundreds of millions of doses will be available every month and we expect to have enough

vaccines for every american by april. >> the president, the pandemic and the politics of donald trump's abdication of leadership is where we start this hour. with us from "the new york times," chief house correspondent peter baker is back and former democratic congressman donna evers and here and the national disaster preparedness is here peter baker, it's your colleagues who have broken this news story about emails showing the pressure campaign that is ongoi ongoing and donald trump has been caught on tape in his own voice admitting to bob woodward way back in february that he downplayed the threat intentionally. but the truth is, for the bombshell that that is to everybody, it's happening now. it's happening still and it's happening at hhs in the form of pressuring and distorting and trying to manipulate the cdc

talk about your colleague's new report >> well, exactly right the president has been at war with his own federal scientists. robert redfield is an appointee of president trump he's not obama holdover, he is a trump appointee. what he was saying this week is masks are important, in fact it would actually stop the progress of the spread if we could do it for six to twelve weeks universally, and he said that the vaccine timeline has to be more realistic you heard the president come out today and sort of recalibrate his promise a little bit he said, yes, the vaccine will be available immediately once we get it approved but we won't get everybody vaccinated until the end of april that's a bit of a change it's still more optimistic than what dr. redfield said this week he was suggesting that it would be closer to the end of june or perhaps into the fall before all americans could actually get immunized for this it goes to the heart of this

presidency he has repeatedly on so many topics, including climate change just this week in california stated his version of, you know, the facts, even if they're at odds with the professionals or the experts. he has no regard, as you know, for expertise or experts if he thinks that they are wrong and if he thinks that their version might get in the way of his particular goals and right now his goal is to convince the country that the coronavirus is rounding the corner, as he puts it, toward an end, even if the experts are saying that it isn't >> and there's no evidence that donald trump has been right about any of this, but add to that, donna, the new evidence of his personal disgust and disdain for the health and well-being of his own supporters, as recounted by a member of the coronavirus task force, the top policy staffer for the vice president who at the earliest days was in charge of the coronavirus task force. let's listen to her recounting >> the truth is, he doesn't

actually care about anyone else but himself. he made a statement once, it was very striking. i never forgot it. it pretty much defined who he was. when we were in a task force meeting, the president said maybe this covid thing is a good thing. i don't like shaking hands with people i don't have to shake hands with these disgusting people. those disgusting people are the same people that he claims to care about these are the people still going to his rallies today who have complete faith in who he is. >> donna edwards, it is heartbreaking that these people will know what he thinks of them like whatever you think of trump and trump-ism, they think that their affection for him is mutual we now know from an insider account, someone who has turned on him in the final days of a presidential campaign, that he's disgusted by his own supporters. >> well, i have to tell you, it's really sad, but it's no surprise i mean, keep in mind this is the

same president who demonstrates contempt for his supporters by holding rallies against the recommendations of his own administration and puts them in jeopardy and then dismisses them by saying, well, i'm okay because i'm far away forget the people who are in the crowds without masks he demonstrated his contempt for them, we heard, in the woodward tape, when he says about americans that he'll downplay the coronavirus and its impact, even though he knows that it will kill many, many people. and so to hear this former official who was right in the thick of it around the table describe the president's contempt and disgust for the people who support him, you know, i hope that it doesn't fall on deaf ears to those

folks, no matter how sad it is for them to know that this president has used and abused them and put their lives in jeopardy and showed no regard for them sad. >> i want to stay on this point just for a minute, peter baker, because your paper has chronicled donald trump making his own attorney general nearly cry, rod rosenstein was moved to tears around the russia investigation. here he's speaking privately about his personal disgust for people that come to his events these are events that your paper and others have reported give him reason for existing. they're the thing he likes most about the presidency, but his true feelings are that he feels disgusted by them based on the vice president's top policy adviser, a lifelong republican who is now supporting joe biden. we know that he views in the words that have been reported by jeffry goldberg and confirmed by your paper and five others, people who lose their lives

serving this country is losers and suckers. i wonder if you detect any consternation that all of the fire he's being sort of caught shooting is friendly fire at the people that support him and think he supports them >> yeah, i think you're exactly right. i mean, he is right now facing testimony not from his enemies but his own people, right? aides who work for him people who, you know, are publishing books his own niece published a book his wife's former friend, his own former attorney. these are the people who have been around him the most and they're the ones who are coming out. i think what the white house is worried about is a continued drip, drip, drip, over these next 50 some days of more people coming out and saying i worked for him, i knew him, i don't think he's doing the right job, which is hard for him to rebut he dismisses them as disgruntled, he obviously lashes out and a lot of his supporters

will agree with him, but it keeps him on offense and puts him on defense and that's not something any president wants this close to an election. you and i both know, there are dissenters within every administration every president loses or alienates some aides who go out and write tell-alls, they've never seen a flood of this many people coming out like we've seen in the last few weeks. >> dr. redliner, the failure at the center of all of this is the failure to respond to intelligence that was in the times reported as early as january. we know whether he saw that or just heard one of the verbal briefings that he knew by february 7th because he told bob woodward he knew just how lethal coronavirus was, that it was a plague, that it would, quote, rip people apart joe biden seems to have grabbed those confessions and turned it into a pretty effective message about all of the harm donald trump has done, not just to the

public health, but to the economy. if he wins, and listen, we don't make predictions, we never should have in the first place, but the conclusion is a mystery and unknown to everybody but what policy changes turn around the current trajectory we are on, which the model suggests could have us at a number as horrific as 400,000 americans lost by the end of the year? >> yes, it's just absolutely horrendous in fact, if you just take the total number of days between now and the election and the end of the year and just multiply it by 1,000, you'll get a pretty good sense of what we're going to be looking at fatality-wise, and if you carry that through the end of 2021, if things don't change dramatically -- and by the way, he's completely dishonest about the timeline for the vaccine and how effective it's going to be so we're looking at hundreds of thousands and, actually, i predicted a few months ago in on op-ed that we could be seeing

600,000 to 800,000 fatalities if things get wild with the pandemic and we don't have the control measures what we've learned about him, he's absolutely a pathological liar, we should be reminding ourselves about this every day and i'm waiting for the moment when his supporters will get this and, you know, he was impeached for making a phone call to the ukraine president. if you think about it now, he's going to be responsible for a couple hundred thousand unnecessary deaths due to covid-19 there's no reason, like other countries, we should not have been at this point less than 50,000 deaths and now we're hitting 200,000. it is really outrageous. and if that was -- the thing about his attacks of redfield, on redfield, et cetera, these are not just attacks on public officials. this is part of a systemic underminding of some of america's most trusted institutions it's horrendous. he's going to leave a wasteland

of loss of credibility of our most valuable health organizations and public health organizations that, if biden wins, and we hope he does, he's going to have to spend a long time recreating the incredible reputations that these agencies once deserved and enjoyed internationally, nicole. so this is just a horrendous reality that we have to face and hopefully his supporters will, by the time of november 3rd, will understand what they're facing and make some hard decisions to leave their support of donald trump. >> donna, one of the things donald trump let slip out and reporters who cover trump usually will say privately, that most of the worse stuff he's planning is stuff he says out loud or tweets he mentioned herd mentality. most trump watchers think he meant herd immunity. here's what our friends at the lincoln project did with that.

>> the trump plan. after months of lies and empty promises, he's told us the terrifying truth it's herd immunity plan, to infect seven out of ten americans with covid the trump plan will kill at least 3 million people in april, he admitted a herd immunity plan was deadly >> if we did follow that approach, i think we might have 2 million people dead. >> this week, he admitted it's his real plan. >> with time, you'll develop herd -- like a herd mentality, it's going to be herd developed and that's going to happen >> say goodbye to your parents, your neighbors, your friends, because the trump plan will kill millions in the next four years. people you love. people you care about. maybe even you >> you know, donna edwards, if you don't recommend masks, if

you suggest that states should liberate themselves from stay-at-home orders, if you demand that children go back to in-person learning or face cutting federal funds, if you celebrate leagues and businesses that go back and demean those that stay home, you are not just for herd immunity, but you are putting the policy pieces in place to make it a reality >> well, i mean, the president of the united states clearly here, his plan has been to invest in americans dying and getting sick that is his plan and all of the pieces that you outline go to that plan and ensure that as the lincoln project really illustrated with seven out of ten of us potentially getting sick and dying, that the american people are in great danger by this president. and i think it is exactly what joe biden said today this president has been derelict in his responsibility to take care of the american public and he has to be held to account for

that and, frankly, i think between now and election day people are already voting and they're voting on a president who has decided to discard most of us because he doesn't want to deal with this pandemic it's really -- i mean, it's shocking that a president would openly admit that he wants the vast majority of us to get covid-19 >> doctor, i want to give you a quick last word. you mentioned the vaccine. what is the truth about a vaccine, even if there is something -- i mean, they're still in trial, what dr. redfield said was that it's the distribution that would take us into the third quarter of 2021 is there any -- trump has challenged thar challenged that, but what's your sense of that? >> i think redfield is right, but it could actually be much longer than that, nicole we're counting on the fact that there are no complications that

pop up in the next couple of months and that we'll be able to do the distribution, which we don't have in place yet at all it has to be manufactured, bottled, distributed all of the vaccines now currently in trial require two doses and that's a monumental challenge for us and i think anybody that is expecting widespread vaccination of people in the end of 2021 is going through a lot of wishful thinking i hope it's true, but i would certainly not count on it, nicole >> just real quick, is it possible that we don't develop a vaccine? i mean, is it a sure thing that we'll be able to create one? >> absolutely not. the fastest we've ever developed a vaccine was for the mumps and that took four years we still don't have vaccinations for hiv and certain types of hepatitis. so i'm hoping that we get one but we don't know.

what if we have a rash of complications that happen once we start administering it to more and more people we're going to have to halt everything but let's wish for the best and i think that's okay to do that but in terms of guaranteeing that, i just don't think it's possible we have to wait and see and really hope for the best in the meantime, redfield spoke the truth. wear a mask. wear a mask and that will really help us control what's coming. so i'm hoping for the best, planning for the worst >> i will hope for the best with you, with everybody. thank you all so much for starting us off today. when we return, digging deep into russia's efforts to interfere with our elections and undermine our democracy. the director of the new documentary "agents of chaos" will join us next. plus, donald trump is once again on the attack against his own fbi director, christopher ray,

after he testified to congress that russia is interfering again and their intention is to hurt joe biden. and the big money campaign to help biden win a decisive early victory in florida and head off any attempt by the trump campaign to try to steal the election back after a quick break don't go anywhere. jooerk ♪ love like yours will surely come my way ♪ ♪ a-hey, a-hey-hey [music playing] ♪ love like yours will surely come my way ♪ knowinit's hard.re is hard. eliminate who you are not first, and you're going to find yourself where you need to be. ♪ the race is never over. the journey has no port. the adventure never ends,

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core of our democracy is, are we doing everything we can to make sure that americans will decide who is running this country? >> that's andrew wiesman, our

colleague. he was the lead prosecutor for the mueller investigation into the 2016 russian election interference one of the many revealing interviews in the two-part hbo documentary film, "agents of chaos" it debuts september 23rd on hbo and hbo max. the dock takes a deep dive into russia's efforts to make chaos out of our democracy and it offers an unprecedented look inside russian troll farms, features videos from the russian deep web, both which were designed to attack directly and effectively. >> they were getting direction and suggestions from people in the trump orbit about how to target social media, which platforms to use, what kind of information would make a difference they had some good advice. >> that's scary music. it's the sound track of my nightmares joining us, the director of the new documentary, agents of

chaos, which examines russia's interference alex, take me through. i mean, we could have -- i could have just pulled clips from it and played it for two whole hours. we didn't have time for that tell me more about what you covered here and the biggest revelations, really. >> part one is about the russian attack and we spent a lot of time in russia and ukraine documenting that we got inside the troll farms that the internet research agency and spent a lot of time documenting the cyber portion of the attack as well, the hack of the dnc and also the hack of the election systems part two is about the agents of chaos in this country, the ones that worked in concert to some extent with russia and sometimes

with their own corrupt purposes in order to sew chaos to just make money and the two kind of come together that's why it's called "agents of chaos". it refers to those in russia and those here in the united states. >> alex, talk about -- you know, all of our understanding here really was shape by the mueller probe and the conclusion that they didn't find a criminal conspiracy, which i think was misconstrued to a lot of people to think that they didn't find collusion or coordination. but can you just explain a little further how the coordination between the russian disinformation dovetails or is amplified by the disinformation from american agents >> sorry, apologies. i lost the tail end of your question >> can you just explain what you laid out about the two

complimentary pieces it's stunning, you talk about how many followers in this country, a lot of these russian troll accounts have. but how exactly do they interact or interface with american agents of disinformation >> i mean, you have to take these elements one at a time in terms of the social media campaign or the troll farms, i think the goal was to stir chaos and discontent and ratchet up the divisions in our society because very often the troll accounts which were fake personal accounts, fake organizational accounts, they were designed to inflame passions on both sides around heated issues, be it immigration or race or whatever. both to sew division and to some extent encourage disgust for the whole democratic process and i think you saw, you know, one of the results of that was a diminution of the number of

people who actually went out to vote so that was that and the other elements, the way that russia and agents of chaos in the united states communicated was through a kind of call and response it wasn't like trump was on the red phone to putin it was more like amplifying certain themes that trump might want to have amplified, like the idea that if he lost, it meant that the election was rigged well, in order to support that, the russians were into all 50 states in terms of trying to penetrate election systems or even voter registration systems. not so much to flip votes so that they could guarantee that trump would win, but to discredit, actually, the election process itself because the russians actually figured hillary was definitely going to

win and they wanted to discredit her presidency as much as possible but it was a campaign that worked very much in concert with trump's public statements about how the election was going to be rigged so in that sense, it was a coordination that didn't even have to be coordinated so there was no red phone, there was just a kind of call and response or as professor timothy snider says in the film, a kind of seduction between trump and putin. and by the way, one other thing on this point, you know, one of the things that we discovered in our film is that i'm pretty certain that while trump liked running for president and it's an ego boost, he never really thought he was going to win. and one of the reasons he was so flattering toward putin throughout the election was that he wanted to build a trump tower in moscow. that's born out by trump's former attorney and giuliani and others well, that's just a

fundamentally corrupt relationship that putin was able to take advantage of trump wanted to make money and so putin was only too happy to say nice things about him. trump was only too happy to say nice things about putin. relates deal, which it turned out was job one, rather than running for president, which turned out to be the one that he ended up taking >> and the whole country is living with plan b, the whole world. you mentioned timothy snider who is a professor of european and russian history at yale. i want to read this quote because i have it in front of me and it strikes me as adding to our understanding of what was it in for russia. russia was lucky to have trump who has the power of being a white american in real life performing their goals quote, trump is perfect for russian oligarchy because he shares the tenets that the rules are a joke how is this going to play out -- i know you largely looked back,

but you're a subject matter expert now how is this going to play out in our upcoming election in your guess? >> look what's happening all over again he's claiming that if he loses that the election will have been rigged that's exactly what happened so i have no doubt that the russians are currently trying to penetrate our election systems in order to be able to sew chaos. one of the reasons i think that the russians are so interested in promoting trump as a candidate is not on account of any policies some people have looked at various policies and said, well, trump has been tough on russia i don't think that's what this is about at all. i think the russians are interested in promoting trump because trump promotes chaos and he's taking a wrecking ball to american democratic institutions that's what the russians are interested in. >> alex, i want to ask if you'll stay with us through the break and on the side i want to let our friends get in on this conversation and the questioning. don't go anywhere.

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think the intelligence community

has assessed this publicly, to primarily denigrate vice president biden and what the russians see as antikind of an anti-russian establishment. >> that was fbi director christopher wray testifying about russian interference, stuff that's happening right now ahead of the 2020 election in the past hour, president trump was asked about wray's comments andhere's what the president had to say about that. >> we're looking at a lot of different things and i did not like his answers yesterday and i'm not sure he liked them either i'm sure that he probably would agree with me. antifa is bad, really bad, and if you look at who is the big problem, the big problem is china. we could have others also, and i'm not excluding anybody. but the big problem is china and why he doesn't want to say that, that certainly bothers me.

>> frank, the question on nobody's mind is why chris wray won't say china. nobody thinks a big problem is china. everybody, the dni, who is a political lackey basically has had to acknowledge that it's russia christopher wray there under oath in front of congress testified to russia's intent we know that a homeland security whiftle blower complaint said that they were scuttled. why are we pretending that donald trump isn't considering firing another fbi director for telling the truth about russia and what does it say to you? >> it says that the truth hurts this president it says that he can't handle the truth. let me tell you something. the fbi director doesn't care what trump says or thinks about his testimony. he cares about the truth and he showed us something yesterday,

nicole he showed us he was going to refuse to be part of that echo chamber. we hear that a lot related to where we get our news from i use the phrase echo chamber to talk about what alex is talking about in his documentary, which is that we have people at very high positions in this government, including the attorney general, the dni, the head of dhs, the secretary of state, who are simply regurgitating russian propaganda and there's russian propaganda put out by their intelligence service that is simply repeating and amplifying everything those people are saying to the detriment of our democracy and our institutions it's extremely damaging, and chris wray showed us that he's going to stand up and say the truth even if it hurts the president. now, you might say, well, let's be careful, the president might fire that fbi director i say if we have an fbi director that's going to just fall into line and lie to us or cover up as all of those other institutions have, then we're in even bigger trouble than we

think. so, look, it's going to be a bumpy ride the next weeks and months ahead are going to call for people like chris wray to come out, stick to their guns and tell the truth to us, because everyone else seems to be part of that russian intelligence service washington beltway echo chamber. >> i just want to echo what frank said, because i thought it was courageous from the fbi director yesterday and one of the things he talked about, which i would like to ask alex about in a second, the russians have a dammdapted sinc. it talks about the different personas, the trolls adopted from the internet research agency one of the things wray mentioned is in this cycle they have evolved and they're hiring american journalists who think they're working for news

publications, but you're actually created by the russians and are these phony sites. going into the internet research agency in saint petersburg, i wrote about that in my book and that was absolutely fascinating. here is the question i wanted to ask you. you talked to a bunch of russians, including the head of russia today, who i dealt with when i was in the state department, but the russians reacted like they're pinching themselves they couldn't believe what they did was actually successful and that we fell for it. how much of that reaction did you see that the russians are just like, wow, we never really thought this would work. we didn't think donald trump would get elected and we never thought we would get so much attention. >> i think that's totally true

i think the answer to why has more to do with some of our own problems at home and that's why i think to some extent we can get distracted we shouldn't take our eyes off the russian attack, but we should really pay a lot of attention to the kinds of weaknesses in our society and the deep divisions are one the willingness of certain politicians to destroy political norms and institutions are another. i don't think they realized how much a kind of energized chaos in this country would take hold and what they were doing was not injecting something new, but simply amplifying problems that have been building up in this country for some time. but to your point, i think they were shocked we know that putin and his inner circle did not think right on up to the moment that, you know,

trump was elected that it was possible that it could happen. and some of the people we talked to, in fact, the guy who investigated putin's chef, who is the guy who is running the internet agency, he's much more concerned about the mercenary group, but he was just shaking his head like 200 people caused so much mischief, who knew >> "agents of chaos" premieres september 23rd on hbo and hbo max. congratulations. thank you for joining us today and for spending some time with us when we come back, the $100 million campaign to help joe biden deliver a knockout blow in florida and avoid the chaos that could help donald trump cheat his way to victory that story next.

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bloomberg's $100 billion effort to defeat donald trump in florida. you'll recall the billionaire former mayor of new york city made a promise when he ended his campaign back in march that he would do whatever it took to help defeat donald trump and with 46 days until the election, it's not a moment too soon joining our conversation, politics editor for "the daily beast", sam stein. i wanted to talk about the substance of the ad. florida is a state where they are living with the failures of the president and the governor around covid it's a state where trump is pretty popular, as is the governor's popularity has taken a big hit. this is the argument that probably most threatens the president in that state. >> yeah, there's two arguments there's the covid health care argument that obviously is in the state and then there's something that is a bit more subtle as the campaign world was

salivating or focusing on what was happening in kenosha, something telling happened with the biden campaign they put up a new ad in florida that focused on social security. they have been bombarding trump with wanting to cut social security through his payroll tax cut in advertisements in florida. so it's two-prong. it's the covid health care ads and the social security that they think is opening up an opportunity for them in florida. >> talk about florida. i worked for a governor of that state and it has, i think, five major media markets, seven major newspapers tv is really expensive, but it is one of the states, like california, really, that offers the opportunity for microtargeting donald trump seemed to get a memo about something along those lines when he offered years later some long overdue and long neglected aid for puerto rico today. >> yeah, florida is an

incredibly diverse and politically diverse state. you have rural, conservative voters in the northwest and you have a huge puerto rican population and cubans in the south. you have a fairly large jewish population you have traditional democratsj. you have the suburbs, orlando to tampa to jacksonville. and figuring out what the is in. florida elections are determined by one to two per sen substantial points and the polls can be misleading. gillam was ahead of de santis before he lost bloomberg is dumping a ton of money in the end of a statewide race in florida and that is rick scott. he is extremely wealthy

businessman. it works, but it takes a lot of money. there's a lot of media markets and you have to target a lot of voters in florida. it will be tough no matter what. maybe it is a $100 million expenditure from bloomberg that putting biden over the path. >> in florida we should say a must win for donald trump. joe biden is looking at the polls, and nbc's own map has paths. every week felt like 17 days long if that where do you think this stands at right now >> it is like a grind. maybe the pandemic happening simultaneously you know it is remarkable there is so much drama we have talked about it. and yet the race is so stable. it is like we move maybe one or two mer sen damage points here or there and then it comes back to this place where we are it is going to tighten at

presidential races do towards the end. the question is will it tighten to a place where biden can win the popular vote and lose the electoral. it could go in the other direction. in the last three elections they all had huge major news events that helped sway the last week of coverage. there was the stock market collapse from 2008 of course there was comey in 2016 we're 45 days away but we're still waiting for a major news event to happen to see where things shake out >> we have the white knuckles to prove it, right? sam stein, thank you so much for spending time with us, my friend when we cop bame back, as we always do, remembering lives well lived am i prepared for this? are we prepared for this? with fidelity wealth management, your dedicated adviser can give you straightforward advice

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z. the presidential election has officially