i appreciate you coming on "the beat," sir. >> thanks. and a little friday night announceme announcement, you can go to the msnbcstore.com and get your own. i want to thank francis ford coppola airing for the first time which was previously recorded that does it for us. "the reidout" with joy reid starts now like a bad used car salesman, because they're not all bad, some of them are good, donald trump convinced millions of americans he would fix everything in fact, he said i alone can fix it well, we are six months into a global pandemic that has prematurely robbed us of 199,000 fellow americans donald trump hasn't fixed a thing. in fact he's gone to war with the scientists, including the

men and women at the most trusted american scientific institution, the centers for disease control, insisting that he knows better. >> how is it that you don't trust your own experts do you think you know better than they do >> no, i think i have -- yeah, in many cases i do >> according to "the new york times," which obtained internal cdc emails, trump associates tried to browbeat scientists at the agency into parroting trump's rosy and dishonest view of the virus while pushing the deranged strategy of herd immunity some would say this is gross incompetence but new reporting shows that it's more repugnant than that. trump and his cabal often appear to frankly not even care if scores of americans live or die. jared kushner, who is running a shadow coronavirus task force, gathered people together and seated like boss baby in a chair

taller than all the others admonished attendees that it was, quote, not the role of government to help with personal protective equipment adding that new york governor andrew cuomo didn't pound the phones hard enough to get ppe for his state. his people are going to suffer, and that's their problem well, if that's not sufficiently gross, listen to olivia troy, who worked closely with vice president pence on the coronavirus task force as recently as a month ago. see that's her sitting next to pence right there. >> the truth is he doesn't actually care about anyone else but himself. when we were in a task force meeting, the president said maybe this covid thing is a good thing. i don't like shaking hands with people i don't have to shake hands with these disgusting people. >> last night joe biden called trump's behavior criminal. today in minnesota he called it selfish. >> the president knew back in february that this was an

extremely dangerous communicable disease. think about it how many people across the iron range, how many empty chairs around those dinner tables, because of his negligence and selfishness. how many lies said and lives lost >> if you want a reminder of just how reckless trump is, just take a look at these live images of his latest superspreader event in minnesota i'm joined by jonathan lemire, white house correspondent for the associated press and michael steele, senior advisor for the lincoln project. thank you both for being here. michael, he's doing it up to today. here's donald trump literally today. he had a press conference and he contradicted dr. redfield again today. >> we'll have manufactured at

least 100 million vaccine doses before the end of the year and likely much more than that hundreds of millions of doses will be available every month and we expect to have enough vaccines for every american by april. >> and the white house coronavirus testing coordinator, admiral brett giroir has defended the cdc director, robert redfield's assessment on a vaccine timeline but had to do it while trying to sort of tweet to trump a little bit because everybody doesn't want to get fired. let's play that. >> the cdc director was correct that widespread use of a vaccine, hundreds of millions of people will probably not happen until midnext year but we could immunize 5% or 10% of the population and get 90% of the benefit by ring fencing the vulnerable like in nursing homes or vaccinating our teachers or those who have hypertension. so both are correct.

>> so i mean no one can even trust what at this point, michael, anybody says. including what the cdc posts on their website, because they all have to bow a little bit to trump in order not to get fired. but he's just coming out and lying and falsely promising there's going to be a vaccine, no matter what they say. i don't understand this just from a political perspective, quite frankly, because the one thing that could have helped him get re-elected was to fight the virus, which would have helped the economy, which would have helped his polling but he won't do it i don't get it do you understand -- do you get it >> i do a little bit and in this way, because you would think with any other president that fighting the virus, the existential threat that is right there in front of the american people, that, yeah, there would be political

considerations, but there would also be more importantly humanitarian considerations. and the benefit of that would be the politics on the back end if as we've seen play out in places like australia and elsewhere around the globe, where they handled their business up front. so the political benefit on the back end is there if it's to be accessed trump doesn't look at it that way. trump looks at it from the perspective of if i do these things, how do i look doing these things if i wear a mask, that makes me look weak. i'm not wearing a mask if i acknowledge that this happened on my watch, that this is something serious, then that makes me look weak if i'm getting advice from the world health organization and the cdc that's telling me that i need to take these steps and i'm talking to my allies and saying, look, this is what we're doing to get ahead of this, then i'm

not in charge, i'm not leading, i'm not the man. so his mindset is set on himself, not on you. not on the american people so, therefore, the decisions are going to be made from that perspective. so everybody comes out and says we have to do a, b and c trump comes out and says, no, we really need to be doing d, f and g. so they come back on the back end and say, well, a, b and c are good but we also need to consider these other things and there the confusion comes. so when it's time for people to get vaccinated, joy, what do you think they're going to do? i'll just wait until y'all work this out and that's the problem that's the problem >> who in their right mind would line up for a vaccine that this cdc and this dhs had anything to do with, quite frankly, jonathan lemire they have so broken people's faith in these institutions. they have so broken the

agencies, nobody is going -- other than trump people. they'll take it seriously because they'll do whatever he wants. but if he's not re-elected he won't even be there at that point. among the people -- and i think michael is right, he doesn't care jared kushner in his little high chair doesn't care, nah, nah, nah, new york is going to suffer, i don't care trump doesn't care about his own supporters here he is at another maskless rally in wisconsin potentially getting people sick. here it is >> officially this is called a protest. you know that. we no longer call it rallies we don't use the term "rally," okay rachel knows we don't call them rallies anymore because, you know, you're not allowed to have a political rally for more than 10 people we call them friendly protests so these are protests, so it's totally allowed. this is a protest. remember, when they walk out --

when you walk outside, what do you consider this? did you enjoy the rally? no, i really -- this is a protest. >> i mean, his shuckie green act aside, jonathan, they're doing that because, number one, they think the people protesting against police killing black people are getting a break they're not getting. but the people that show up there, there's plenty of scientific evidence that they're not super spreaders because they wear masks and do the last thing. just last month dr. birx, who's barely hanging on said please everybody follow the guidelines, wear a mask and stay six feet apart. i just don't understand the political calculation. i know trump doesn't actually care if people die but the political calculation are maybe letting your own people get sick and die, i don't get it >> well, as you know, joy, the president and his team really prize these rallies. i attended several of them last

week on his western swing to nevada and arizona it was a similar scenario. in fact one of the ones in arizona and one in nevada were indoors, which is something he had avoided since the debacle that was tulsa because for a time members of his supporters were not going to attend indoor events they stayed away from rallies, period now he's slowly built them back up the majorityhave been outdoors but not all. what we saw sunday night just outside las vegas was an indoor rally. the vast majority of the crowd not wearing masks. of course the virus spreads a lot more easily indoors per science with one exception, though, joy. the audience stands right behind the president. those who would be seated directly behind him who would be visible on the tv shots, they were asked to wear masks and did. so they, in order to broadcast to the cameras, wore masks the vast majority of those in the arena of course did not. and to your other point, you're

right, this is a president who has repeatedly touted measures to treat the coronavirus that simply have not been true, that fly in the face of science we remember, of course, his -- the way he would day after day urge people to use an anti-malarial drug that was sidelined by the fda because it was not safe to use to treat covid-19 there was when he suggested people should inject disinfectant as a way to treat it so now he and all of his top aides are touting the vaccine suggesting on an accelerated timetable that it could be ready to come before the year is out and to everyone next year. they have an extraordinary credibility gap now. while you're right, his supporters tend to go along with whatever he has said, he's also someone who has previously deemed the coronavirus a hoax and we have interviewed countless trump supporters in the months that have just ended where people were doubting of the whole thing and didn't wear

masks. so he may even have trouble urging his own supporters to get vaccinated >> yeah. i mean they wouldn't be -- well, anyway, as michael steel said, you can't save everybody, right? here's olivia troy describing when trump spent -- this is in a task force meeting about the coronavirus. here's what he wanted to talk about. tucker carlson >> we have been in meetings where we were supposed to be talking about the virus and either travel restrictions or how we were going to evacuate people off of cruise ships, which was a big issue at the very beginning of this pandemic and what we were going to do with them. and he wanted to talk for 45 minutes on how upset he was with some news anchor at his preferred news network and who was going to take care of that problem. he looked around the room and said who's going to call this person and set them straight >> you know, michael, you've already had news that this postal service was going to send

masks to every household they didn't because of trump he's busy worrying what tucker carlson is saying on tv. people don't trust the cdc, they're on again, off again on whether people should wear masks. you know, we have also olivia troy saying that he said he's glad that he wouldn't have to have rope lines anymore because he doesn't want to touch these disgusting people. that's his own people he's calling disgusting i mean i know you have said before that you can't save everybody, but i'm wondering if you can save anybody that's on his side because they're the ones that will keep taking risks that make the rest of us get sick. >> they are. and it's incumbent on us to take care of our own and to be vigilant and diligent in that regard you know, yes, i am my brother's keeper to the extent that my brother wants to be kept and so i try my best every day we put the warnings out. we have said we've had scientists, doctors,

immunologists, podiatrists, anybody who's remotely connected to science spell it out for us and this is the reality. you know he's not a real president, right you know that. because a real president wouldn't do this a real president would care a little bit more about his people he wouldn't break us up into blue states and red states he wouldn't sit there and say that, you know, if it weren't for these blue states, no one would get sick that would be as if george bush said if it weren't for new york, pennsylvania and washington, d.c., no one died on 9/11. so understand what we're talking about here, folks, and recognize you've got to step into this responsibility a little bit more you just can't hang back and i think that's the thing for me i'm in a peaceful place, joy, because i know what i'm up against. i know what thisis and i'm not trying to figure it out anymore. we know what this is so now the only thing we've got

left to do is vote the only thing we've got left now to do is vote and that's the final statement by the american people about what they see this democracy being and what it will be in the future >> like the reggae folks say, alota mercy. thank you both very much. up next, new polls show that president trump is sinking with senate republicans going down with the ship. plus -- >> i view this -- i really do view this campaign as a campaign between scranton and park avenue and i really mean it >> biden sharpens his message while trump sharpens his fangs. also tonight, a reidout exclusive. david corn from mother jones with the never-before-seen trump university deposition tapes. the fraud, the settlement and the glasses that trump doesn't

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for several states, election day isn't 46 days away, it has already begun. voters today started casting ballots in virginia, wyoming, south dakota and minnesota with long lines in some places. in several more states like battleground michigan, absentee ballots go out next week both candidates are stumping in minnesota today with biden, who is framing his campaign against trump as scranton versus park avenue, making the case that he and not trump is your regular joe. >> in the middle of the pandemic, you're left to wonder as a consequence, ordinary

folks, who's looking out for me? you know, that's been the entire story of donald trump's presidency and now in the midst of this unprecedented national crisis, trump has given up on even pretending to do his job if the president had just started one week earlier in march than he did, we'd have 36,000 more people sitting at the dinner table tonight >> joining me now is kurt bardella and maria hinojoso, author of "once i was you, a memoir of love and hate in a torn america." a really fabulous book but i'm going to kurt first on this you know, i thought joe biden was strong today i want to get your take on it because he's making a case between the town hall he did and what he did today of, look, i'm like you if you're just an average american i don't need to have an ivy league degree. i come from a working class family he's relatable this is what trump is.

he made the point that trump inherited his wealth and squandered it. the palace of the golden toilet. how effective do you think that that message will be, particularly with swing voters if there are any left. >> i think it's very effective you look at the last couple of days and you can't have more of a contrast in styles between what we're seeing from donald trump and his town hall, i guess we'll call it, and what we've seen from vice president joe biden. it kind of reminds me, joy, of when you look back to when george w. bush ran against john kerry. w. had that kind of relatability, folksy, able to interact with the every man vibe that played very well for him and kerry was seen as more upper echelon, out of touch, above it all. and i think that when you look at joe biden, this is his greatest strength, his ability to relate, his ability to be human and express emotion and sincerity and authenticity in a way that people believe that

this is really who joe biden is, whether the cameras are rolling or not, whether there's one person or a thousand people around him joe is who he is with donald trump, you have someone constantly out of touch. he's always bragging about how rich he is, how great his life is, how big his places are, how luxurious his resorts are, and i think at a time when most americans are locked away right now, are worried about getting sick, are worried about even paying able to pay their bills because their unemployment has run out, they're relating more to the message that joe biden is putting forward and not the one donald trump is putting out there. >> yeah, and he called his own supporters disgusting people, he doesn't want to shake their hands. maria, i don't know if we can get the golden picture up of trump and melania but hopefully we'll have that. the polls are showing that -- there it is. that versus the regular joe. that biden is strong in a lot of states where he could actually take some senate seats down, particularly looking at maine where mark kelly -- i'm sorry,

where sara gideon is beating susan collins, arizona where mark kelly is beating martha mcsally. you go through these races and it seems clear that there is the ability that biden could sweep in some senate races as well talk about the places where biden is strong and where he's weak there's some talk that he has weakness with black men and latino voters. where do you think it stands >> okay, a couple of things. i was talking to one of my sources who's actually latino who lived in pennsylvania and left pennsylvania and lives on park avenue. so for him he was like -- he actually tweeted and said i don't care if it's a gaffe, i'm still going to vote for you. but then we talked about how for many latino men in particular, they understand and kind of get this trump message there is a message i'm not really watching this right now, but this message of fear

biden is going to be pulled to become a socialistand they are going to take away everything of yours. he said, you know, latino men from places like venezuela, cuba, he says this is a memory they have. it's ptsd. and so he was saying even some of his democratic leaning latino friends will hold their nose and vote for trump because of this fear issue interestingly in terms of pennsylvania, i want to stay there for a moment because apparently lehigh valley for a hundred years has been what tips the state. and you're thinking what's lehigh valley? whatever it is, it's an area of central pennsylvania right now about 26%, if not more, of that population there is latino or latina. that's the same region where they created the hazelton anti-immigrant laws that were then fought down so my source was just saying they don't like anti-immigranty

hatey people, that's not what they like. so let's watch what happens with pennsylvania in terms of latinos turning out on a message of we don't want this anti-immigrant talk but on the other hand, i've got to say, joy, i'm really taken by the fact that so many latinos, i was talking to some in texas also, are really -- they're really connecting to this i'm afraid that biden is going to become too radical because i'm like that is -- that is the last thing you really need to fear right now. >> i think biden's best defense against that is just showing up and talking because he just comes across as the opposite of that thank you both very much really appreciate both of you. meanwhile donald trump today announced nearly $13 billion in aid for puerto rico. the timing was curious it's been three years since hurricane maria ravaged the u.s. territory and right now we're about six weeks away from the presidential election. >> they have to say in a very nice way, a very respectful way,

i'm the best thing that ever happened to puerto rico. >> this huge aid package to puerto rico, why not a year ago, why not two years ago, why not three years ago, why 46 days to the election. >> we've been working on it for a long time to get it passed very tough to get it passed. >> i haereard you many times sag puerto rico got too much money last year you said puerto rico is one of the most corrupt places on oath. >> well, that's true >> but you said never again. you said congress gave too much money to puerto rico why now? >> we are building it up as a great medical pharmaceutical manufacturing area >> joining me now on the phone is the mayor of san juan, puerto rico, carmen cruz. mayor cruz, what do you think? donald trump is suddenly deciding that puerto rico is worthy of getting aid two years later. after all that he's said about puerto rico, after all that he's said including about yourself

and all he's done throwing the paper towels, et cetera, what do you make of him saying he's the best thing that ever happened to puerto rico? >> well, i think it's shameful, despicable and lacking any connection to reality or any sense -- the president is clearly trying to buy the vote of the puerto rican people in the united states and he knows he's not doing very well the president throwing paper towels, calling us corrupt and dirty and telling us that he wants to sell the puerto rican people frankly, this might come as a surprise to thepresident, but we are not for sale. three years after hurricane maria on sunday, i'm sitting here in front of 3,000 puerto rican flags, one representing each one of the people that died because of the botched effort of

donald trump because he's so vain, he thought that this was about him. and because frankly he used puerto rico as a -- that we've seen his administration has become in the last four years. >> you know, donald trump at one point apparently ruminated on selling puerto rico. he thought he might be able to sell it. you know, now that he needs florida, he needs to win florida, this is obviously a gambit for that. do you think that with all that's on the table and all that he's done, including more broadly to the latino community, we have this new story about surgeries women didn't want to take out their uteruses, just so much has been done, do you think that voters, puerto rican voters can be moved by this last-minute gift of aid? >> no. and i'll tell you why. there was a recent poll last

week where puerto ricans in florida, which is the largest -- the state with the largest number of puerto ricans right now, said that they referred joe biden over donald trump. but i am sure that a man that is used to buying his way around everything, like donald trump is, thinks that he can buy the conscience of the people of puerto rico. we will never forget that because of him, 3,000 puerto ricans are dead. we will never forget that because of him, more than 200,000 americans are dead we will never forget children in cages and ripped from their mother's arms. these are things that are very close to the puerto rican people, to the latino people, because we are mindful of how you communities have been torn apart and very mindful of how despicable the president has been, calling immigrants rapists and murderers. you know, we need -- the world

needs a man with a soul in the white house, and that certainly is not donald trump. in my case, i do believe it is joe biden and kamala harris. >> thank you so much for being here tonight, mayor carmen cruz. we got you to come on at the last minute so we appreciate your time. thank you. never-before-seen deposition video of donald trump during the lawsuit over the scam formerly known as trump university. that is coming up. stay with us, you will not want to miss it how they gonna pay for this? they will, but with accident forgiveness allstate won't raise your rates just because of an accident. cut! is that good? no you were talking about allstate and... i just... when i... accident forgiveness from allstate. click or call for a quote today. here's to the duers. to all the people who realize they can du more with less asthma

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a lot goes through your mind. with fidelity wealth management, your dedicated adviser can give you straightforward advice and tailored recommendations. that's the clarity you get with fidelity wealth management. at trump university, we teach success. that's what it's all about, success. it's going to happen to you. if you're going to achieve anything, you have to take action and action is what trump university is all about. >> long before he succeeded at conning his way into the

presidency, trump conned people to enroll in his fake trump university, luring people in with promises that they could make a fortune just like his even though we now know that he was nowhere near as rich as he said he was and the money he did have he inherited or glommed his name to buildings he didn't own and to products like trump university, which offered programs that cost thousands of dollars. one of his employees described as misleading, fraudulent and dishonest. the employee told the court that while trump university claimed it wanted to help consumers make money, in fact trump university was only interested in selling every person the most expensive seminars they possibly could one student said they wasted their entire life savings on trump. i'm going to hold on, because we have some breaking news that we have to report to you so i'm going to hold it right there on talking about trump university and unfortunately that news is that ruth bader ginsburg,

associate justice of the united states supreme court has died apparently that is the news that we are getting right now. david corn, i'm going to bring him in a little bit early. we had david on because he's got these tapes of trump university depositions. but david, i'm now going to have to ask you to play a slightly different role for me. we have this confirmed i believe our own pete williams of nbc news has confirmed it david corn, i don't know if we have you yet, but your reaction because it does appear that justice ruth bader ginsburg, known to many as the notorious rbg, heroic, liberal member of the court has died david corn. >> it's a dark day it's a dark day for the united states my condolences to her family, relatives, friends, colleagues on the court she was a hero she was a giant of judicial prudence and she was passionate. she was passionate for decades

in defending progressive principles, legal principles, values, the heart of the american experiment. she was a pioneer as a woman at harvard law school, as a woman in the legal profession, she was an example and a hero quite frankly for millions of americans. it's a tremendous loss for the nation, for all of us. obviously it sets up what will be a tremendous political fight. so many of our issues these days, so many of the excesses of the trump administration trying to get rid of the aca and trying to kick dreamers out of this country. a lot of that ends up at the supreme court and there's been a balance with four liberal judges of which she was a leader and one or two maybe moderates and now the court obviously will be something that trump and mitch mcconnell and others try to ram through a nominee, even

though, even though, let's remember what happened in obama's last year. come february they wouldn't take the obama nominee. >> yeah. well, i'm sure that there will be no principles on that let's bring in pete. pete, what do we know? and i will turn it over to you what do we know? do we have pete? okay david, we're trying to get pete williams back. we're having a little bit of a technical issue there. as you just started saying, david, what we know about mitch mcconnell is that his driving dream is to stack the courts, the federal courts with as many far right-wing judges as possible donald trump made that possible. he supposedly had what i think he called the biden rule that you cannot replace a supreme court justice in the midst of an election, a presidential election

i presume that that rule will no longer be operative if this opportunity is availed to him. >> yes we saw what happened with merrick gaurland in the last year of the obama presidency when he was nominated. there was nothing that said you can't nominate someone eight to ten months before the election but they refused to consider it. they broke what was a tremendous norm in american politics, which was not unusual given that many norms have been broken by trump and his republican cult in the last three and a half years. and now no doubt they're going to come back and say, oh, we didn't -- we were kidding back then or now things are different and there will be a battle royale, as they try to grab this open seat rather than adhering to the principle that they claim they had four years ago when

they said it should be up to the voters to pick the next president who will pick someone to fill this seat. so expect -- i mean we talk a lot, joy, about hypocrisy of the republican party i think we will be hitting the peak with this controversy that's my sad prediction >> oh, i think it's clear. i think susan collins will be concerned and still vote for whatever it is that is put forward by the federalist society and by this president, but he's really just signing off on whatever it is they want and they'll go for the farthest right, youngest justice that they can get you know, and i don't know really what democrats can really do at this stage but for the consciences of some republican in the senate who tries to be consistent you follow the capitol hill. is there such a senator? >> mitt romney and a few others

might just say enough. betting on the republicans in general has been a losing proposition, particularly in matters of principle and value and consistency. but if susan collins is scared that this is going to cost her her election, maybe she'll say it's not the time. maybe mitt romney will adhere to the previous principle and then, you know, you need two other senators out there who in tight elections think this might turn the tide against them so it's not a done deal in and of itself. there will be a fight here but it will be a tremendous fight and it will show yet again the republicans' true colors that they don't care about norms, they don't care about principles, that they previously espoused and fought for. and we'll get into the politics really soon here, but we also just have to keep in mind the giant that ruth bader ginsburg

was, the tremendous contribution she made to american society her advocacy, whether it was for health care programs that benefited low income and middle income americans, whether it was for marriage rights for all, i mean she's been a part of many historical decisions that have affected tens if not hundreds of millions of americans for the better she has hung on a long time. she's been a strong voice. her dissents are marvelous to read when she has gone up against the conservatives on the court. you know, she stands out amongst supreme court justices often they're very special people on the right and on the left, but she truly stands out and it is a sad, dark day to lose her >> absolutely. stay with us, david, i want to bring in neal katyal

neal, this is a tough one. this is one of the best known of the supreme court justices, and most revered, particularly by american liberals for her classic dissents, as david corn just said. the idea of women, gender equality and the things that she advocated for. talk a little bit about what this loss means. >> yeah. i don't think that it's just this is a loss for liberals at all. this is a loss for america ruth bader ginsburg was a true american hero in every sense of the word she as a lawyer argued some of the most important cases on gender equality, as a justice pioneered all sorts of different areas of law and had a brilliant, strong voice. you know, i am heartbroken beyond words that she is no longer with us some culture the thurgood

marshall of the women's rights movement that was true, and part of her legacy, but there are so many more i think history will remember her incredibly, kindly and influentially in a way that isn't true for all of the justices in our lifetimes but is certainly true for her >> yeah. i mean she entered the popular culture this idea of the notorious rbg. her strength, her physical strength, her workout routine that many of us try to struggle to match, her tenacity both as a legal mind and just as a human being. talk about her relationships with these other justices. you know, what were her alliances? i know some of them were rather ironic. >> well, i think that she did something that frankly all of us need to learn from and remember, particularly at this moment. her best friend on the court was antonin scalia, who was the

leader of the conservatives and they had been best friends for decades. they used to spend new year's eve together with their spouses. you know, she is someone who respected strong voices but didn't only limit her friends to those with whom she agreed she's really a model citizen in that way as the country is being so torn apart and polarized, i think it's worth everyone thinking and reflecting not just on her jurisprudence but on that piece of her, because we have a lot to learn from it. >> are you concerned that the court, neal, is becoming just another politicized entity, that the reverence that people had for the court from bush v. gore on, it feels less like something separate of the politics of the house and the senate i wonder without ruth bader ginsburg there, does that just get worse? >> well, bush versus gore was an

undoubtedly very dark moment for the court. but i think the court has done a lot to recover and to really remind all americans that they make decisions not on politics you know, sometimes maybe those considerations come in in some cases, but just take this year, for example. you had president trump's two appointees, neil gorsuch and brett kavanaugh voting against him in the tax returns case. you had justice john roberts and trump's appointee, neil gorsuch, voting against trump in the title vii case about whether or not lgbt workers are protected in the workplace with discrimination laws. you had chief justice roberts joining the four appointees by democrats, democratic presidents, to strike down daca, the dreamers program that president trump had that basically tried to send them back so you have a bunch of these

reminders. chief justice roberts of course famously casting votes to save obamacare. i think it's wrong descriptively to say this is a court that makes rulings on political considerations also per septemberivewise, these are big cases and didn't just follow political references. so i don't know that justice ginsburg's passing itself will necessarily impact that except to say there's an asterisk here, which is the replacement and we've had some pretty controversial hearings in the past i certainly think it would be 100% inappropriate for president trump to try and nominate someone. after all, the republicans back in 2016 didn't even give merrick garland a hearing. if he does so, i think the democrats would be well within their rights to think about all sorts of recourses of action, including increasing the size of

the supreme court in a biden administration so i think nobody should monkey with this. it should go through ordinary processes and take the time to nominate someone worthy of our high court >> we're going to take just a moment as we have lots of great guests to speak with but we're going to very quickly play a package by pete williams about the life of ruth bader ginsburg take a look. >> ruth bader ginsburg was consistently one of the u.s. supreme court's moderate-to-liberal members. first as a lawyer, then as a judge and a justice, she believed the constitution guaranteed women greater rights. >> over the course of now over two centuries, it has grown and developed so that more and more people are included in that concept, we the people >> rejected after law school for a supreme court clerkship because she was a woman, she began her legal career as a law

professor and pioneering advocate for women's legal rights successfully arguing a string of cases before the supreme court that made it easier to sue for sex discrimination it was president carter who first appointed her to be a federal judge. >> she has genuinely distinguished herself -- >> then in 1993, president clinton put her on the supreme court making her the second woman justice. >> it contributes to the end of the days when women at least half the talent pool in our society appear in high places only as one at a time performers >> at her confirmation hearing, she clearly stated her support for the right to abortion. >> this is something central to a woman's life, to her dignity. >> and as a justice, she voted to uphold abortion rights. she wrote the court's opinion, putting an end to the men-only policy at vmi, the virginia military institute, saying it

was based on outmoded stereo types. she joined the court's majorities in striking down the death penalty for juveniles and in ruling that, quote, death is not a suitably punishment for a mentally retarded criminal she also voted to roll back bush administration policies in the war on terror, a blistering opinion about equal pay for women renewed her standing as a feminist icon. >> we welcome today justice ruth bader dwiginsburg. >> she was nicknamed notorious rbg. >> i am 84 years old and everyone wants to take a picture with me. >> she married a fellow student in college, martin ginsburg. they had two children. later she recalls receiving practical advice on her wedding day. >> it pays, mother said, it pays sometimes to be a little deaf. i have followed that advice with

only occasional lapses not only at home but in the places i have worked and even in relating to my colleagues at the supreme courtt >> a passionate opera fan, she appeared in several washington productions in full costume but silent roles doctors inserted a stent after blockage of a heart. now the court's most powerful liberal justice the gone pete williams nbc news at the supreme court. >> pete williams talked about the life of the great ruth bader ginsburg who has left us at age 87 i believe we have linda greenhouse, long-time reporter for the supreme court,

documented the great career of this woman your thoughts on this dark night, i think, for a lot of people >> yeah. i have to say i was personally shaken it was your call that gave me this news. it was the end of an era this was a woman who couldn't get a job. she was highly recommended for a supreme court court ship and she's great, but i just can't have a woman in my chambers. and by the end of her life, you know, we have seen a revolution in sex equality and other kinds of equality and she was the spokesperson and the reality architect of a whole new way of thinking about the meaning of equal protection under the constitution so it's a terrible loss of a

great american life. >> yeah. and, you know, what do you think she will be best remembered for? obviously her advocacy for women's rights, but she was also a key vote in issues of voting rights, something that's still not fully resolved and still has had some issues. what do you think her greatest achievements will be viewed as >> well, unfortunately in the voted rights era, she was noted for her powerful dissenting opinion where she said to chief justice robert's opinion she said, you know, that's like when it stops raining and you say you don't need an umbrella because she said things have changed in the south that we don't need the voting act to protect people anymore. she found a voice in the dissent in the last, i'd say, 15 years of her career that was extremely

powerful, up to and including this summer when the court enabled the trump administration to let employers who didn't want to provide contraception coverage off the hook, and she said, you know, there is hundreds of thousands of women who are going to be deprived because of this decision of benefits at work to which they're legally entitled she was the one who said that. so we've lost a powerful dissenting voice >> yeah, indeed. linda greenhouse, thank you so much we really appreciate you being here tough night. thank you very much. i want to bring in my friend and colleague ari melbur your thoughts on tonight, ari? >> yeah. can you hear me? ari joining you joy. >> yes

i've got you. >> joining you on a sad night. a huge loss for the more liberal wing of the supreme court. justice ginsburg known not only for her opinions on women's equality and civil rights but also someone who built bridges she famously had a strong working relationship with justice scalia, a strong working relationship with justice roberts. her loss on the court immediately means the court is more conservative with eight votes and you were discussing the brawling about how to fill this vote would be profound because if this were a seat that was soon filled with a republican appointee, you would have a complete shift in the power balance of this court. justice roberts has become a swing vote if this were replaced with a strong conservative on issues, it would be a profound shift. so while every key member of

this small group of people that served on the supreme court is important, i don't think it's an overstatement, joy, to emphasize that justice ginsburg's vacancy could profoundly alter the court's decision on many issues. >> yeah. indeed, indeed, indeed my friend, thank you very much really appreciate you coming back on to talk about this i want to go now to john meachum. give us some perspective i think we desperately need it in this moment >> well, justice ginsburg represented the best of the american tradition, the best of a devotion to the american experiment, to the notion that the story of the country should be the realization and the expansion of the implications of the promise of the declaration of independence. she believed in the journey toward a more perfect union and

that does not have to be a partisan or id logical or red or blue or conservative point it's simply a clinical observation that she gave her life to expanding rights and understood that the country was at its best when we widened our arms, not when we clenched a fist she was a builder of bridges, quite close personally to justice scalia a force for a kind of conciliation and unity within what was once the brethren before justice o'connor and justice ginsburg so it is a loss for the nation it is a loss for those of us that believe that fundamentally if enough of us devote ourselves

and our hearts and minds to that experiment that american history can be redemtive, that there can be a journey from darkness to light. and, so, the country, i think, should rightly pause and mourn this remarkably pioneering life which was given to a realization that what thomas jefferson wrote in a different era could mean real change and real possibility from era to era to era and it sets up, again as ari was saying, a remarkably contentious few weeks here as we await the incumbent president's response and it's not too much to say, and i feel a little uncomfortable talking about this, but apparently justice ginsburg is reported, i think,

by npr to have put out a statement or a post hue mouse statement for the public that she hoped that a new president would be installed before she was replaced we cannot in our american momento day really over estimate the power of the supreme court as an organizing principal and galvanizing issue for both sides of the american id you logical spectrum since the school prayer issues, the supreme court has been a fix of the conservative movement in the country, beginning with the war in court, particularly in may 17th, 1954, which is the day that earl warren, a republican

appointee announced a mown nous decision declaring the separate but equal was an unconstitutional principal liberals have understood that the law could be used as a liberating force so conservatives have fought to turn that back liberals have thought to advance that mission and justice ginsburg's legacy is secure what she did with the future and the ethicacy and the durability of that legacy will in many ways be determined by the outcome of this presidential election >> yeah. and i unfortunately, i think, that no one doubts that it is not going to be pretty and that this fight is going to be perhaps one of the most epic political fights that we have seen in a very, very long time because, you're right, we should take our time and take a moment to pause to reflect on this great woman and her

contributions. but politics doesn't wait for long, doesn't wait for much and doesn't respect much and uncourt natalie i think it's coming. thank you so much to all my guests thank you to all my guests on this sad night justice ruth bader ginsburg has died at the age of 87. msnbc will have coverage all night long "all in" with chris hayes starts right now. good evening from new york i'm chris hayes. some stunning and sad, desperately sad news tonight supreme court justice ruth bad r er ginsburg has died she passed at the age of 87 due to complications of cancer she displayed this almost incomprehensible resilience. she survived cancer multiple times, going through multiple rounds of chemotherapy and still doing her job on the court her workou