ov covid-f covid-19 spread. we'll take you there, safely, that is, straight ahead, but we begin in washington where the battle escalates over ruth bader ginsburg's seat just two days after her death. the vacancy now fiercely debated on capitol hill and the race for the white house. on the hill, both lawmakers from both sides making their case whether a nominee from president trump should be considered. >> we need a full court on election day given the very high likelihood that we're going to see litigation that goes to the court. we need to supreme court that can give a definitive answer for the country. >> the last time a justice was considered after someone died unexpe unexpe unexpectly, scalia, set by our cheeg colleague. clinton said you can't have one set of rules for democrat and anoth for republican. >> the president last night

saying he intended to name a replacement as early as this week. >> going to be a woman? >> i could see most likely it would be a woman, yeah, i think i can say that. it would be a woman. i would, if somebody were to ask me now, i would say that a woman would be in first place. yes. >> meantime, democratic nominee, joe biden, is on his way to philadelphia. that's where he is set to speak on the supreme court vacancy. the former vp picking up a major endorsement this morning from the detroit free press which writes biden is the anti toxin that america needs. a new poll out this morning shows after a month remains unchanged. biden leads by 11 points while 8% are up for grabs. we have a team of analysts covering the developments for you. we're going to begin with

garrett at the white house big welcome to you on this sunday. i want to start with the new poll numbers. when you break them down, where does the biden advantage over trump come from? >> from a number of categories. you see biden with a similar top line to what we've seen this whole race here. about an eight 8-point lead, but then you see strengths in black voters, where he is dominant. if we put up the graphic, 90% of african-american voters say they'll go with the former vice president over donald trump. likewise, a massive gender gap among women where he has a 20-point lead. but you switch things over, it's not like trump doesn't have his own strengths here. he's got stronger, you see the numbers for independent and white voters with college degrees also breaking in biden's favor. when you look at white voters more generally, that's where you see the strengths for the president of the united states. he pulls much more strongly among white voters. 52-43 and among men, you see a slight gender gap there in the president's favor.

50-45. nowhere near the same gap you see with women. when you break it down and get voters by college degrees, that's what we saw in 2016 with trump leading by more than 20 points there with with voters without college degrees. now when you break it down by age, you see i think something really interesting here. biden, very strong with two very different voting groups. both with voters where he does extremely well, 41-31% well and with seniors. why does this matter? we talk about it going back to the obama campaign. turning out those younger voters can be extraordinarily difficult. seniors vote reliablely and typically republican. could make big difference, especially if he continues to struggle with that excitement. >> great interpretation on all those numbers. what about the white house today, which is pushing a new

narrative on the heels of the president's announcement to pick a supreme court nominee, just 44 days before the election. what are they saying? >> well, the white house is really playing a little bit with theo the history of 2016 as it relates to 2020. in 2016, republicans were unified in the idea that merrick garland's idea to replace scalia shouldn't get a hearing. they said it was because the white house was going to be decided in that november and that the next president should make that choice. now, they're making a different argument. they're saying that because both parties are, both the senate and white house are controlled by the same party, that they should have a unified opportunity to make that choice right now. the vice president's chief of staff, he's worn a number of hats in this administration, including the drirector of leonl is lative affairs, spoke about this this morning. take a listen. >> historical precedent is

clear. when you have a party in power in the senate whose job it is to advise and consent and confirm the president's nominee, it continually has shown h historically that that is the job of the senate the confirm the president's nomination and history shows it's the president's obligation to make a nomination. when you have a party in different party in the united states senate, those nominations have not moved forward and that's what leader mcconnell did in 2016. >> and alex that might be more difficult than the white house would like. i'm going the read you some breaking news now, but we know at least one republican senator, susan collins, had said yesterday she would not be willing to move forward this close to an election and now in the last moments, lisa murkowski is out with a new statement i just got on my phone. she had spoken hypothetically she would not take up supporting a potential vacancy. she said we are close to the

2020 election, two months out, and i believe the same standard must apply, that i would not support taking up a nomination at this time. so lisa murkowski clarifying what had been a hypothetical answer to this question before there was a vvacancy. that moves the magic number to two additional republicans would need to stand with democrats in opposing this nomination to stop it from moving forward. >> i love that you read that off your phone. i'm actually marking down this breaking news on my notes here on the set. thank goodness we have got pete williams. he's going to join us to further amplify what you've reported. before that, joe biden is on his way to philadelphia, where in just a few hours, he's set to give remarks on the supreme court vacancy. good day to you. so what can we expect to hear from the former vp? >> well, alex, what the former vice president is going to be

saying is recognizing what is at stake. beyond the next four years. something that can definitely affect generations to come given the importance of the supreme court. now, biden himself has been saying since day one of launching his third presidential campaign that america is in the battle for the soul of the nation. that america is at this inflection point that has been exacerbated by the coronavirus pandemic and president trump's handling of it. so that is something you'll be hearing not just from him, but also democrats who have been really honing in on health care, which continues to be the number one issue for many voters across the board. of course, reminds that president trump is trying to again reverse the affordable care act. something that the supreme court several years ago stood by. especially during this time during a pandemic. take a listen to what house speaker nancy pelosi had to say a about trump, the pandemic and the supreme court.

>> if the president thinks this isn't about the coronavirus, it is. it's about health care. so the president is rushing to make some kind of a decision because he november 10th is when the arguments begin on the affordable care act. he doesn't want to crush the virus. he wants to crush the affordable care act. >> now, the biden campaign is not seeing any change of strategy or also in their hopes in these next 44 days to the election. this will be a message, however, that biden will stress today and a message he will bring to wisconsin tomorrow. it's the second time he's visiting that state. just this month alone, senator harris is visiting michigan on tuesday and we're sure we'll see a little bit more travel in this next week when they try to seize on the moment to mobilize voters. alex. >> thank you so much. appreciate that live report. will the president's pledge to

nominate a woman has put the spotlight on three women. amy barrett, barbara -- and alyson rushing. pete williams is joining me right now. before we get get to what you know about these three, let me just ask you, garrett's reporting there, saying that two republican senators would not vote to proceed. if we get just two more senators who say in agreement, that i do not want to proceed, then all the discussion we're about to have would be a moot point, right? i mean, there would not be anything going forward because mitch mcconnell would not have the votes. >> remember, the question is when the senate would vote on the nominee. would it be before or after the election. and of course, you know, look, if you talk privately with some senate republican leaders, number one, they would say they'd have a vote before the election puts additional pressure on the moderates like collins and murkowski and others and i think they recognize that

these women were going to take that position and the second thing is apart from the senator's view, there are some republicans just the opposite of what you heard from ted cruz at the beginning, who believe it's better for president trump to have the vote on the nominee a after a the election. because he can then basically say you're voting for me and my nominee. it's an additional plus for him elect electorally. it's certainly possible that if there are no further defections, the republicans could try to push to have this vote before the election, but i must say it's looking increasingly likely that will it will afterwards. if it is afterwards, how r far? it is possible the country won't know who won the election for weeks after election day if it takes a long time to count mail in ballots and if there are court challenges.

remember that in 2000, we did not know who was going to be the next president, whether it would be al gore or george w. bush until mid december when the supreme court finally decided the florida recount case. so, the other possibility of course is that if there is a case challenging or contesting some aspect of the presidential election that goes to the supreme court, the senate could be voting on a nominee just about that time. so, you know, there's a lot of moving parts here and it's just not at all clear how it's going to happen. but i would say if i had to put money on it, i would bet the vote would happen after the election. >> then you add to that, just look to the logistics of the calendar, pete. we have the holidays. there's a holiday break. then there would also have to be the vetting of this particular nominee. then there would have top the confirmation hearing on this nominee. actually, the clock could get run out, right, before january 20th if there was a change in the presidency.

>> the day the president announces a nominee until the senate votes to confirm. that's to do all the things that you just said. for the judiciary committee to do the vetting and remember the white house has done that work so it can act fairly quickly. the nominee typically meets with senators then you have the hearings, then you have some time to digest that. even if the president announces a new nominee next week, that would push a vote into late november or early december, but i think they could get it done certainly before inauguration day on january 20th. >> so to the point of those that are have been vetted or are

being vetted right now, let's talk about the judges that we believe in consideration that you've put forward these names as being considered. they have a few things in common. they're conservative. they're young. all appointed as judges for the first time during this presidential term. first of all, pete, prior experience, is that required to sit on the supreme court bench? common sense would suggest that, but is it? >> it's varied over the years. elena kagan, for example, was never a judge. she was a law professor, the dean of the harvard law school, worked in the justice department deposit, but never a judge. so it's vary ied. sandra day o'connor had a lot of experience which was the usual rule for supreme court justices. there are, there is some electoral advantage in having not much experience on the bench because then you don't have a lot of judicial opinions that your opponents can look through

to use against you, so that judicial experience thing cuts both ways. >> okay. justice ginsburg, she came to the court as the daughter of immigrants. she certainly suffered gender discrimination in her career. already had a record of fighting to uphold rights enshrined in this constitution. here's what bill clinton said about her today. >> she had this uncanny ability to be very much in the weeds, if you will, of the intellectual legal arguments, yet never lose sight of the human impact of her decisions. >> so, the records of these potential nominees from donald trump. what do we know about them? >> well, i think if you listen to what they're saying at the white house, does seem that amy barrett is the at least at the moment and these things tend to change as the day goes by, but she seems to be the so to speak

front-runner. she's 48. on the seventh circuit. spent much of her career as a law professor at note re dame. native of indiana. confirmed by the senate 55-43 for the appeals court. she, in a way, is the polar opposite of ginsburg in this sense. not a supporter of abortion rights. one issue in her confirmation hearings was her deep catholic faith and the question was would that override her view of the law. she has insisted it would not. but she said she doesn't think if there's a law that runs akou acounter to the institution, that precedent matters, which to many people, was code for i don't believe we need to uphold roe v. wade just because it's been on the books for a long time. >> just going to say there's no vote needed to be taken when i say you're the best. >> you'd find some dissent i think. >> i don't think. i think peter baker would agree

with me. >> number one on my list. >> that's because he's the chief white house correspondent for the "new york times" and msnbc political analyst as well. hey, peter, welcome to you. so, wanted to talk to you about the front-runner as pete williams just suggested. she clerked for the late conservative justice antonin scalia, strongly pro-life. deeply held religious beliefs. do you think those kinds of characteristics would come up in a potential hearing? we know that those discussions from dine feinstein of california. the last go around when she was among those being considered. and fine feinstein suggested it would be an issue and said no, it wouldn't be. >> her religion did become a flash point. it was a pretty insind yar moment. conservatives said she was tieing a religion test to the judge and senator feinstein denied that, talking about you

know, policy, she said, but you're right. it is a moment actually that made judge barrett one of the favorites of the conservatives because they saw her as a champion in effect of their side of the political fence and made her a hero to them. now, will it come up in an exclusive way or not? obviously the issue of abortion will ring loud and clear to everybody. everybody understands this choice could make the difference one or the other for roe v. wade. there are a number of votes on the supreme court to overturn it. you know, jung justice roberts rejected a restrictive abortion limitation by louisiana this term on a basis of precedent, but you know, that still suggests with additional vote there that could be decisive moment. so you're going to see both sides bring out all the stops to either push or oppose a nominee like judge barrett. >> how about timing?

peter, has the white house decided on what is better for them, whether before or after the lech? >> well, i thought you summed up with your previous guest. obviously senator cruz articulates the view that they want to have a court in order to try to settle this election. one with six republican held seats and not have to worry about chief justice roberts who's been a wild card from the conservative point of view. at the same time, i think there's an argument you hear from a will the of republicans to say go ahead and announce the nominee now because you tell conservative voters, republicans, what is at stake if they vote then have the vote afterwards because you know, that way, there's a reason to turn out. right? there's a reason for republicans to turn out and the president thinks that one of the reasons he won in 2016 was because there was an open seat and he was going to put conservative in that seat rather than let hillary clinton put a liberal in there. that made a big difference. that's what polls show. that 26% of trump voters consider the supreme court their most important issue. 26% compare d to only 18%.

so that tells you why they think, the white house and republican circles, this could be an important election issue for the president. >> nancy pelosi was asked about all the options the democrats have. let's take a listen to this. >> some have mentioned the possibility if they try to push through a nominee in a lame duck session that you and the house could move to impeach president trump or attorney general barr as a way of stalling and preventing the senate from acting on this nomination. >> well, we have our options. we have arrows in our quiver. >> but to be clear, you're not taking arrows out of your quiver. you're not taking anything out. >> when we weigh the equities of protecting our democracy requires us to use every arrow in our quiver. >> what does she mean? how are you interpreting that response? >> good question. hard to manl that impeachment is a serious viable option. the country went through that

this year and it didn't result in what the democrats would have hoped for. so there's a lot of speculation now of what could be done. it's a very volatile moment on the hill because you're going to be asking the senate potentially the try to ram through a supreme court nomination in the middle of an election in which some senators need to be home to campaign. by the way, we don't have funding approved for the fiscal year a that starts at the end of this month. without that, the government would shut down then there's the question of pandemic, which is krcritical to millions of peopl out there who are unemployed, their businesses are failing. all these issues are in the mix at the same time and we don't know how they'll play together and how they factor into each other. >> okay. the best times two. what a great way the start my show today. well, the gulf coast is bracing for yet another stormy wallop. we'll show you right where it's headed. wallop we'll show you right where it's headed because when caught early, it's more treatable. i'm cologuard.

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on tropical storm beta. hundred hunters report winds near 60 miles an hour with higher gusts. southern louisiana is under a storm surge warning. that slow moving storm will dump heavy rain and likely flood parts of texas tomorrow. tributes are pouring in for supreme court justice ruth bader ginsburg. a memorial in her honor is taking shape on the steps outside the supreme court and not far from there, a debate over her now vacant seat is raging. democrats want to wait until after the election while republicans want the ill fill it now. amanda, welcome. set the scene r for us. what's happen tlg today? ing there today? >> hundreds o people coming out to pay tribute to ginsburg in displays that are powerful and somber here throughout the day. we saw thousands come out last night for a vigil that took place on the steps of the supreme court and today, hundreds are are still coming through leaving flowers and

pictures and letters, thanking her for her work. and a jewish tradition of leaving stones, which last longer than flowers. we also saw speaker nancy pelosi come out here and lay flowers down on this makeshift site and in talking to the folks that are coming out here today, it's a lot of young people. also a lot of families. parents bringing their sons and daughters, wanting to teach them about rbg's legacy, what she worked towards and how to move forward. i asked what they're looking to see in the next few weeks especially in regards to her seat in the political battle ahead. >> i hope we, it doesn't reach the heights of hypocrisy and that they wait until we have a new president. >> i'm hoping that people realize that they have a role to play and that they make the effort to make sure that they get their ballots and take

action. >> and with 44 days until election day, keep in mind that early rote iing has started in various states, including virginia and we were with you yesterday talking about that. just how many voters were enthused and further motivated to cast their ballot because of the passing of rbg. as they move forward, seeing how this will play out with national narrative and with voters themselves will be interesting to watch. >> it will, indeed. thank you so much. now to the legal implications of this new supreme court makeup and the fight over who will take ji ginsburg's seat. eric holder outlined it last night to al sharpton. >> i think that what democrats have to do, assuming that biden is president and there is a majority for the democrats, need to think about court reform. and at a minimum, as part f that reform package, i think additional justices need to be

placed on the supreme court. >> joining me now, paul butler, professor at georgetown school of law, msnbc legal analyst and harry lipman, former deputy substantiate to hillary clinton. also host of the talking heads podcast. paul, you first, here. as i want to get your reaction to what we just heard there from eric holder, are democrats needing to stack the court if biden wins. what do you make of that? >> first of all, this would be a huge symbolic victory for trump if he gets to aa point the next justice. trump would get to replace ginsburg, a progressive juress with an anti-choice ood log. that would be a huge setback for voting rights. lgbt and abortion rights, but one response from the democrats may be to pack the court. so there are nine justices now,

but that number is determined by congress and in fact, the court has ranged from as few as five justices to as many as ten. it would be kind of a nuclear move by the democrats and congress, but many democrats think that the republicans would go to support. >> so taking a listen to what paul said, let me inject, not a good idea, what are your thou t thoughts on what holder said? >> nuclear, as paul says, is the operative term. you have a whole party that will be stepped on a hornet's nest if someone new is ram med through and the gorsuch legacy already is still sticks in the craw of

democrats. so it's very extreme. don't get me wrong. remember, the whole country rejected it under fdr, but i think there will be a very strong push for it should trump succeed in putting on for example, a justice. >> however, harry, the implications if a new justice is not confirmed before the election, leaving a 4-4 split, pete williams is bringing up gore v. bush. there are a lot of issues coming up that are critical. o obama care, for example, what kuz that mean for those cases if there's a 4-4 split? >> it's huge. starting with the election itself because it's not just the decisions the court will hear. t the cases coming up from below where the supreme court might enter a stay. now think of the numbers if justice ginsburg were alive, it would have depended on john roberts to cast the fifth vote. here, if he casts the fifth

vote, that will be four and that will mean a tie and that will mean the decision is decided by an equally divided court, but not a kind of national resolution, so for starters, that ties things in knots. second, yes, especially in the december sittings, we have some very big cases that the prospect of a tie would be problematic. this happened with kennedy until he finally came on the court in january. the court had to hear new cases. the big problem is for the election itself. >> yeah. paul, we know that both of the candidates have legal teams set up should this election be contested. what will it mean to have an eight-person court if there are lawsuits? would we be talking about a constitutional crisis? >> if there are lawsuits, there already are. this is the most litigated election in u.s. history. 45 states have lawsuits going on. most have focus on the complexities of trying to have a national election during a

pandemic. so if there's a 4-4 split, i mean the worst case scenario is the equivalent of bush versus gore, so the supreme court would have to decide the election. make no mistake, this is already a super conservative court. now there are five very conservative judges and three moderate to liberal justices, so i think the outcome of a case like bush versus gore with this new supreme court is fairly certain and fairly obvious. >> let's take a listen to what attorney general bill barr had to say in his comments this week. here it is, guys. >> individual prosecutors can sometimes become head hunters. all too often. letting the most junior members set the agenda might be a good philosophy tr a monte sorry preschool, but it's no way to run a federal agency. >> i'm going to toss this to the former deputy assistant attorney general. harry, what are you thoughts on

that? >> you know, unprecedented. of course by the way he's saying, the attorney general decides that's one thing, but you heard the todne, alex. he called them moral busy bodies. compares them to little children. this is basically a declaration of war with the rank and file the justice department, who already has been disparaged by trump and when barr first came in, you might have thought his first order of business was to shore up his troops. not only did he not have their back before, he now has stuck a knife in it. it must be really willful at the department of justice. >> gentlemen, harry, paul, guys, i'm very much appreciative of your insights. programming note. president trump's former personal attorney, michael cohen, will speak with al sharpton on politics nation 5:00 p.m. eastern. flipping michigan is one of the most crucial tasks for joe biden. why some voters say they're not seeing enough of his campaign. o seeing enough of his campaign.

tells timing magazine, quote, i think we need more visible biden campaign presence in the state. i would love to see a steady drum beat that made clear even to the most atypical person that joe biden cares about michigan. charlotte wrote that article. also the author of the ones we've been waiting for. and a frequent guest. this is a nice habit we're getting into here. let's talk at this article, r charlotte, in which you describe joe biden's campaign in michigan as quote all but inindividualabinvisible to the naked eye. what do you mean? >> driving through michigan over the last week or so, the only reason that you would really think that joe biden is nup michigan, which by the way, he's up in the polls in michigan. but you just can't see it.

driving around the state. i just got into pennsylvania and i saw more biden signs in mt. lebanon yesterday than i saw in a week in michigan. >> and i got to tell you, i've been in michigan and when you get outside of detroit, you see a lot of trump signs on the lawn a. i'm sure you saw that as well. so biden visited the detroit area this month. kamala harris goes to flint and detroit on tuesday, but based on your conversations with voters in the swing districts, do you think the campaign's lack of a physical presence there in that state will end up affecting how people vote? >> so, i don't know. i mean, the voters that i spoke to you know, they weren't necessarily swayed one way or the other by biden's you know, relative lack of a physical presence. i also think covid-19 has a huge impact on this. i mean the reason that biden is not having major rallies, the

reason he's not having big events, putting canvassers on the ground to go door to door is because the campaign is much more concerned with covid-19 than the trump campaign seems to be. so this is a public health decision. not a political strategy decision. to that end, the campaign has done a tremendous amount of digital field work. in the week after labor day, they sent out 500,000 texts to supporters roughly one every half second. so they are really trying to make up for it with online hours. >> so what do you think the people of michigan still need to hear from joe biden? >> i think he's not taking the state program. that's one thing that i heard from both leaders there and voters there is that they don't think he's making the same mistake hillary clinton made in 2016. the question is you know, it's an enthusiasm question. when you drive around the state, you see physically, a lot of

physical enthusiasm for donald trump and you wouldn't know that there's enthusiasm for joe biden in that state unless you talked to people and dug into the poles. i think for people who are not political, people who are not following every beat of this race, their lived experience of just living on the ground there in michigan, they might not know that there's sort of enthusiasm for joe biden there and i think that could be a problem in mobilizing the people that he needs to mobilize to win that state. >> we're going to build on this conversation. we are not taking michigan for granted here. we're going michael moore on in our 2:00 hour so thank you for this set up for that. i'm going to quote you and chat with him in a bit. thank. we'll see you next week, i hope. whether ever you're going, we want to hear about it. thank you. justice ruth bader ginsburg is being remembered for her landmark decisions. how one of her most famous

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justice ruth bader ginsburg spent her life championing women's rights. ledbetter sued good year ties over pay discrimination. the case made it to the supreme court. in 2006, however, she lost in a rare move, ginsburg read her dissent from the bench, saying the court does not comprehend or is indifferent to the insidious ways women can be victims of pay discrimination. she added the ball is in congress' court. joining me now, lilly ledbetter and tina chen. also the drek r tor of the white house counsel of women and girls under president obama. i'm happy to reunite the two of you. you became friends when tina was working in the white house.

i'm sure you're happy to see one another. as congress did take ax then in 2009, the president signed the lilly ledbetter fair pay act. how are you remembering ginsburg today? >> ginsburg's dissent changed my life and it changed a lot of lives across this great nation. because the outcry and the outpouring across the nation when the verdict came out and the led bbetter good year case,t not only affected me and my family but it was thousands across this nation and it's a fundamental american right that women are paid and compensated according to the law and the law has been on the books for many, many years, but most companies and employers do not adhere to it. so it was nothing but right and she changed my drastically, but i will say this. she gave me some dignity to hold my head up and go forward because she and three other

justices realized that should have gone as it was presented in court. but five justices ruled against us and change d the law. that's why it is so critical right now on who is appointed to the supreme court because never in my life would i have ever suspected when i was a young lady, working my way up the ladder, so to speak, that my life would be drastically changed by the supreme court. because it was not on my radar to have a court case go to the supreme court. but it did. and those justices ruled against my case and it was like justice ginsburg said. she said they do not understand what it's like in the real world. >> yeah. >> and it really causes a lot of people to suffer. >> in 2009 though, tina, congress apparently understood president obama sign ed the lily

ledbetter act. talk about about what that meant, how that echoed in the white house, the joy of being able to sign that act? >> well, alex, and i am delighted to be reunited with lilly. it is so great to see you virtually during this moment. it was the very first bill that president obama signed. he signed it within a week of being inaugurated. it was for me, the first event that i organized in the white house. i was told i was organizing it and didn't even know where the east room was because we had just gotten there into the white house. but it was a culmination of a campaign since '06, when she lost the case, through the '08 campaign. i met her first on the campaign trial because she was out there campaigning because equal pay and the injustices that her case represented really motivated women to go to the polls, women and men. and it's still the case today.

we just did a survey on equal pay because we still have a pay gap, even now and even in a pandemic, over 80% of men and women believe this is still an urgent issue to address and it is still an issue that animates this current election. >> absolutely a. as we look ahead, tina, to a pretty fierce battle toginsburg minds, is irreplaceable. i know time's up issued a statement that there not be a vote until election day. what's at stake? >> well, women's rights is completely at stake. it's not just any woman that can go on the supreme court. the it is what that woman's lived experience. look at the experience ruth bader gibbs burg took to the supreme court when nominated. she had already transformed you know what it means to have equal protection under the law. for women. she is the architect of making sure that 14th amendment applied

to women as well as to men. and so, you know, that is the kind of justice we need the replace her. and let me tell you this, alex, i think what the american people want the u.s. senate to deal with in the next 44 days is the fact we have still lost 200,000 americans this weekend. that's the other thing that happened. the sorrowful weekend that we have had this weekend. also the loss of all those lives and that's what the senate needs to do for the next 44 days then let the american people vote, express themselves and then we take this up after inauguration day. >> amen to all of that, but lilly, last word to you. your hopes for the person who eventually fills justice ginsburg's seat. >> we should find someone to fill her seat that brings to it the knowledge of the law. she was such a tickler for detail, law, right to the dot. if it was black, it was black. and that's the way it should be.

it shouldn't be gray and it should be definite and should adhere to the law and follow the president in the decisions that have been made in the past. and that's what i want to see f where people get equal justice. that's justice ginsburg's desire in life was to have equal justice under the law. she believed in it. she believed it would take the country and the people in it and it should be equal to all people and tina was exactly right. there is still so much work to be done. i get up every day waiting to do something and i still travel when i can without this virus going on, that's going every day, impossible because i still travel the country and talking about equal pay for equal work because the problem is and like in my life, it was not only what i was earning at the time, but it goes on for the rest of my life. my retirement. my contributory.

my 401(k) and my social security. and since i never got anything with the supreme court ruling or i never got the equal pay, needless to say, my retirements are extremely low and that hurts and i'm not the only one. i'm just the tip of the iceberg in this country for unequal pay for equal work. >> very impressive ladies. no surprise you two are friends. i appreciate your time. thank you so much. zblncht zblvrnlgts if the president gets rid of obama care, what will will lost? we'll get to that. care, what will will lost? we'll get to that. and the peace of mind of knowing that important things like your prescriptions, and ballots, are on their way. every day, all across america, we'll keep delivering for you.

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slamming a few months ago the affordable care act. it happened on national nurse's day. ruth bader ginsburg's death leaves obamacare's fate hanging in the balance with only eight justs on the court raising the odds of 4-4 tie votes if arguments proceed this fall. if the court strikes down obamacare, millions would lose their health insurance. protections for pre-existing conditions, caps on expensive treatments and possibly face higher premiums. i wan to bring in chris lu and assistant po to president obama and managed his cabinet during the passage of the affordable care act and now a senior fellow at the university of virginia miller center. there is a lot at stake here. is obamacare doomed if this president gets to nominate another justice. >> i don't know if that is doomed but that is the case that needs to be made to the american people. the problem is that for too many people in the country what the

supreme court does could seem abstract and the challenge for joe biden is to make tangible where the supreme court matters and we've seen 5-4 decisions on abortion, daca, and voting rights and the sent us and the most important coming you with the affordable care act. and if that goes away, that is 20 some million without health insurance and 1,333 million with pre-existing conditions and this is a president for who for years said he's going to deliver a great health care plan and has come up short. an this is fantastic for joe biden to high lie. the poll showed that he leads trump on the issue of health care by 21 points and this is the issue that democrats highlighted in 2018 to take back the house. >> yeah, hey, chris, we don't even know what the president's plan has been. he's been on the campaign trail for the last four years and preceding the election and constantly talked about striking down obamacare but we have no clue what he wants to replace it

with. take a listen to. >> we are going to do something that is going to be great health care. >> we're signing a health care plan within two weeks. >> i'll be signing it sometime very soon. >> you said two weeks -- >> it might be sunday but it's going to be very soon. >> we're going to be introducing a tremendous health care plan sometime prior -- hopefully prior to the end of the month. t it's just about completing now. >> we have a health care plan. >> and you've been saying. >> and i already have a new plan and it is much better for you and it is a much better plan. >> you cannot repeal -- or replace something without a replacement. we remember what voters did in 2018. they cared predominantly about their health care. >> that is right. this two week promise every two weeks keeping dragging on and on and for the last three and a half years while he's not been able to appeal the affordable

care act, he's continued to undermine it to where you see the number of people without health insurance continue to rise and he refused to reopen the affordable care act exchanges so people could apply for health care. and the millions people who have come down with covid over the last couple of months, that is a pre-existing condition and we could be living with a health consequences of that for generations. so it is important to understand, health care is on the line. and this is a central issue that will energizing democrats but health care voters. >> we have "the new york times" reporting biden's plan to link the supreme court vacancy to the coronavirus pandemic and the future of health care. do you think that could help him win in november? >> i think it could certainly help energize the base and show people why this election matters and you've seen a mal and a half people have made donations,

$91 million has been raised for democratic candidates and causes and it is about swing voters as well, undecided voters to crystallize why this election matters. an let's also point out one thing, if the supreme court strikes down the affordable care act, it could be re-enact by a democrat president and democrat led congress. >> thank you very much. joe biden is speaking about the vacancy on the high court but what could he say to calm those upset about what might be to come.

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good day from msnbc headquarters here in new york. welcome to weekends with alex witt. we have a lot of developments for you. and we begin with the breaking news from capitol hill. a second republican senator saying just this last hour she opposes taking up a supreme court nominee before the election. let's go to my colleague leigh ann caldwell on capitol hill with the latest on this. welcome to you, let's get some names for you and key senators we're still waiting to hear from. >> so it is senator lisa murkowski is the second senator to say that the senate should not vote on a new nominee by this president before election day. she's a fiercely independent republican from alaska. and she's the second senator to buck her party and the majority leho