suffering due to the virus? but the focus on the court could also be totally consumed by the virus as we enter an autumn season that health experts have warned could be the worse we've seen. and joining me now, garrett haake on thrill. and also peter baker from the "new york times." and we hope to check this with the biden campaign that is in flint, michigan as well. but let me start with capitol hill and garrett. garrett, the fear of this will destroy the senate, i would say it is sort of like people saying hey, climate change is coming. no, it is not coming, it is here. the senate has been destroyed as we know it. so now we have a new senate, it is combatting like the house, he who has the power just shoves it through, that is the future of the united states senate? >> reporter: well, i think that we're certainly seeing a senate

that is behaving more and more like the house. we saw it with the end of the judicial filibuster for lower court nominees that democrats put through when president obama was still president obama and the end of the filibuster with supreme court nominees which republicans pushed through earlier in this term. and now we're seeing republicans almost dare democrats to change the rules again if democrats take control after the november elections. democrats really have no cards that they can play here to stop this nomination from going forward, although they could slow it down. but if democrats feel like even if republicans are playing by the technical literal rules of the senate, they weren't keeping their word and were not operating with the kind of comity that is something expected on the senate side. so you are looking at a situation where we could find ourselves in a new congress with the senate and the house both operating in very much the same way. republicans, mitch mcconnell warns about this idea that once you start changing the rules, you get into a dangerous

position because nobody is in the majority forever but democrats are furious right now and they are ready to play like they see their colleagues on the other side of the aisle play to try to even the score. >> and is there really -- i guess the thing i'm surprised at, this looks like a political suicide mission for more than one republican. that to go down this road sight unseen, they will support nominee sight unseen. and when the ads 95% of the time, senator so and so votes with x, they are usually devastating. and it looks like a potential suicide mission yet the leader is forcing this. any regrets on this? >> reporter: a couple things at play here. first of all, the timing. republicans will say that any nominee that president trump puts ford is moward is more in with what conservatives want

than any no him knee who joe biden would put four when he would get the opportunity in january. so the timing works to the advantage of the republican senators who may not love a nominee who comes forward or frankly love being in this position at all. second i would take issue with the idea that it is a suicide mission. i only see two republicans who are up in tough races who are not running entirely glued to donald trump. and that is susan collins and cory gardner. other tough races are proxies for donald trump. they will go exactly as far as trump takes them. so for them, the political risk isn't that independents will somehow turn their backs on them. that ship has already sailed. they need the president's base to be their base too. i think only gardner and collins are trying to cue the middle course and for them the vote could be politically damaging.

and i think that that is part of the cal could you police that mitch mcconnell is looking at when they look at the timing. >> there are suburbs in kansas, arizona, south carolina. but i think that they are playing with fire here. roe is more popular than republicans want to believe. so it is horrific than he reward. let's move over to the white house, shannon petty, one of the things that it may be a mild surprise here, the president is one of those folks that he likes having a carrot and a stick. and if they confirm this nominee before the election, is the white house not worried that that would be, okay, they don't need trump anymore, now they can throw trump away, only reason i supported the guy was these court picks and that is out of the way now, i don't have to support him anymore, any concern that doing that before the election would actually hurt the

president? >> i have heard that exact concern, that if conservatives can get their supreme court nominee filled and then be done with trump, that would be an ideal scenario for republicans who still hold these deep conservative values but don't like trump and his demeanor and his behavior. i have heard that outside the white house from republican strategists there. that does not seem to be a concern or calculation at all going on in the white house right now. and maybe that has to do with that their overconfidence, but the white house has definitely been pushinging to hold this vote as quickly as possible. the one argument i have heard from outside advisers about polling this through the election, have you vote after the election, that it could help with the senate majority. so it could help pull a martha mcsally or joni ernst across the line by bringing in republicans

who might have been hesitant to vote for them but who will now turn out because they really want that supreme court seat filled after the election and they know that they have to get martha mcsally in there to vote for their conservative nominee after the leak. that seems to be the big debate going on as far as timing.leak. that seems to be the big debate going on as far as timing. i think as a real actual value lid thing that is being discussed out there among republicans who aren't necessarily aligned with the white house and the trump campaign. >> so judge barrett got her interview yesterday, amy coney barrett. she is seen as the front runner. i was told by somebody that wans the president meets barbara lagoa, he may fall in love with her because of her -- over stylistic differences with judge barrett. what are you hearing inside the white house and when do we expect the lagoa interview? >> well, amy coney barrett has

been sold to the president as a solid conservative pick, that will really fire up very much very much evangelicals and get them to come out in big numbers for the president. of course we know from pollinging, the president is not doing as well among he haves as he was before. lagoa would be a more moderate alternative. she is certainly a very conservative judge, but she had a bit more of a bipartisan vote in her last confirmation hearing. she could be a better candidate to sell to moderates and independents in the suburbs. but this campaign is going again as they have been since day one on a base strategy, on a focus on turning out evangelicals, turning out rural white voters, not focusing so much on the suburbs, focusing on the more working class noncollege educated voters. so that seems to be where all the momentum is going except for this argument about being helped with hispanics and cuban-americans in florida.

but the trump campaign was already feeling confident with this group even before lagoa's name being hut put in this race. >> as someone said, they think they know where this is going, but they never know with the president. he delayed the kavanaugh pick by a week and that was a nightmare for a bunch of people. so at the end of the day, we know that the wild card here is always the person at the resolute desk. peter baker, from the "new york times," mitch mcconnell is in some ways a pretty risk averse guy. and the fact that he is trying desperately to get all this done before the election, i think means that he is admitting something that he has yet to say publicly. he does not think that republicans can hold the senate and he does not think that trump will hold the presidency, so he is trying to jam this all up front. it feels like that this is a lot more risk than republicans are claiming today. >> yeah, i think that is a fair

inference. you thought that you were going to keep the white house and keep the senate. and why not do the vote after the election and use it as you just discussed as a carrot to voters to come on out, that you have to show up at the polls if you are a republican particularly if you are anti-an br abortion. so it means that the conclusion that they need to get it done now.so it means that the conclu that they need to get it done now. and if you are thinking long term, a seat on the supreme court which could stay in her hands for 30 years let's say in some ways argues for more benefit for republicans or the conservative cause than a single senate election or single presidential election. that there is a long view of this in which to have three trump appointments on the bench, which is what we would have if she is confirmed, has a longer lasting value for your issue, your values and your movement.

>> you know, peter, i am curious though that if they go down this road, you know, abortion is a double digit -- roe is dunlg ou digit in the majority and people wanting to keep it. the health care law -- i know what the conventional wisdom is, but look at what kavanaugh did in 2018. all it did was give josh holly and mike braun maybe instead of five point victory, maybe ten point victories. but it didn't stop the suburbs from going dramatically blue. >> that's right. you and i are old enough to remember when he would not have wanted a fight about abortion if you were a republican right in the last week of an election. it would have been dangerous and thought of as explosive. but this does talk about how

politics have changed, that at least this president is not trying to reach out to the middle, not trying to lure in independents and conservative democrats. he is trying to helply indicate the electorate he had four years ago, pull out the inside straight he did winning the electoral college even though he lost the popular vote. but there was a poll this morning showing that democrats were energized too. 60% of democrats said that the supreme court would be their most important issue and that is up 12 points since ruth bader ginsburg's death. so it is a double-edged sword. it may give democrats a greater motivation than they already have and they do have it because they are pretty passionate about getting trump out of the white house. so it could backfire on the president. it is a real gamble i think for this white house and this senate majority.

>> yeah, i think that it is a big gamble and i think people that you have to be careful not to assume old conventional wisdom on this stuff. because if you look at 2018, kavanaugh helped in two states, period. hard to see where it really helped the right. and let me check in with ali vitali following the biden campaign. she is joining us on the phone. ali, the front and center issue has been the virus and health care. there is a lot of base democrats that want to see more fight from the democrats on this court fight. how is joe biden going to walk that line to both show some fight but not get dragged into, you know, sort of fights about what the size of the supreme court should be which is clearly a topic he does not want to address before the election? >> reporter: clearly a topic he doesn't want to address. and i'm sorry for joining us by phone. we're having some issues on the

ground here in flint. our camera guy here will take you inside what we're seeing at the book shop which is a lot of motorcade action and we expect kamala harris to be coming closer to us now. but that poll for joe biden is really important right now. we saw it during the primary between the progressive and the moderate sides of this party. and now it will be happening with the sides that think staying out of this court fight and elevating it instead on the issue level is the way to campaign or whether taking it into washington, d.c. and starting to make a battle on even just the granular politics of replacing the supreme court seat before the election. for the biden/harris ticket, they are trying to push this into the box that they have already been using on messaging, pressing the pandemic, making it about health care and about the economy. that is probably true here in flint today. but when you sea poll you see pw that 80% of americans say that they are highly interested in

this election, that is something that i've started hearing from voters even just being on the ground here today in flint. people telling me that they themselves are already keeping up with the supreme court fight which allows the biden/harris ticket then to try to talk to people about health care, about the pandemic, that same kind of messaging that they have already been using because voters are walking and chewing gum at least it seems like they are keeping themselves apprised of the granular details and also paying taenkt attention to the message that the ticket is putting out. so we'll see if that is something that they can continue to do as this fight giets nastir on the hill. >> ali, thank you. and also shannon, garrett, of course peter baker, we're just getting started. i thank you all. coming up, we'll dig in deeper on the politics of the supreme court, how much will it mobilize voter, how far down the ballot

will it have an impact. a closer look at what the gop's next moves could mean for the senate. and later, is the uk on the verge of a second wave? coronavirus numbers are ticking up rapidly. could it be a sign of what we might face in the united states or frankly facing now and just plea te pretend doesn't exist. to severe psoriasis, little things can become your big moment. that's why there's otezla. otezla is not a cream.

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i don't think that it is right to bring a nominee forward in an election year. given the people of this country have started to vote already, to put a nominee in the middle of that kind of very hyper politicized environment, i don't think that it is right for the institution. >> we won't nominate a supreme court justice until the people have spoken. we've advised the president we will not consent to one of his nominees, we'll let the american people speak. >> if there is a republican president in 20167 a, you can s lindsey graham said let's let

the next president whoever it might be make that nomination and you could use my words against me and you'd be absolutely right. >> 2020, which is the election year, i think then that is fair to come around and say that as well. until he goes through election cycle and when he is relaeblgel then he could make the new a point the. precedent set. so come 2020 if there is an opening, i'm sure you will remind me of that. >> the hypocrisy television ads won't be difficult to makes a you can see. those are all senate republicans in previous years explaining why a supreme court nominee should not be confirmed in an election year. and those are also senate republicans facing tough re-election battles this year. joining me now is mark murray and david wasserman.

so mark, i know politics ain't bean bag. circumstances change. but let's just focus on lindsey graham. he is probably the best avatar of this because he said you can remind me of it. so if lindsey graham were up ten in, do you think he would have stuck by his principle? >> i think probably party determines most everything. but what i can guarantee you, that his democratic challenger jamie harrison has raised millions of dollars. and made that montage you put out will be in ads in south carolina and iowa. and it does put the republicans on the spot. not only because of the message of hypocrisy as you layout, but also because you these are the i incumbe incumbents. a lot of people look bake to the 2018 catch gnaw okavanaugh hear helping those in red senate

states. ron of the reasons that the rms had to o.wn all the mes. and now they say if you are really angry at washington, if you don't think it ends up working all that well, why not vote some new blood in. and this will end up being the message that they have. it might not be enough in some of these states particularly like south carolina where republicans outnumber democrats, but it certainly would be a potent message for these democratic challengers to have. >> and dave, that is the larger conversation i want to have here. this conventional wisdom is already that this will automatically help senate republicans because of what we saw particularly in missouri and tennessee. and it is possible missouri and tennessee it helped in missouri and tennessee in 2018. right? and there are suburbs in kansas, there are suburbs in south carolina. what is the real risk here? >> chuck, the states that will be deciding senate, the states

deciding the presidential election are not indiana and missouri or north dakota for that matter. in 2016, 22% of trump's voters according to the research that i did a dive over the weekend on were pro-choice. and so there is potential for democrats to be able to drive a wedge between trump and a number of his blue collar nonevery he have voters who for years used to vote for democrats because they saw republicans as the party of rich people and bible thumpers. and do you know how the trump campaign these days is calling joe biden a trojan horse for aoc and the radical left? there is an opportunity here for democrats to make the case that donald trump has been a trojan horse for mitch mcconnell and swamp creature republicans in the d.c. establishment. >> mark, the other thing that we were talking about earlier today, both the 2006 cycle and

the 2014 cycle, the outparty, it was the democrats in '06 and the republicans in '14, they ran this ad campaign and we saw it, senator x voted with the president 93% of the time, 95% of the time. it was what, you know -- it cost elizabeth dole her seat in '06 and it cost arguably you could say claire mccaskill that kind of mindset in '18. and this close to an election, every senate republican agreeing to be in lockstep on party seems to be a risk. >> and chuck, a risk in the sense that in almost all these states, the presidential contest is effectively tied or maybe even tilting joe biden's way when i look at a place like north carolina who we see the recent polling that has come out in iowa, in georgia, you have a tied presidential election and the senate races seem to be around in the same ballpark as

well too. and if democrats are able to peel off enough independent voters or ren gaze republican vo renegade republican voters who say maybe it is time to take a chance on someone else, you can see how that could backfire on republicans. earli earli earlier garrett was saying how they would hug on to the president, that could be a problem in iowa and georgia this cycle. >> and so obviously colorado and maine, they are in one place on this. but the rest of the senate races, where do you think it could be value add on the gop side and where do you think that what they think is value add could actual boomerang? >> clearly in monday tan tana o carolina, this could get the states more in a partisan line like they traditionally behaved

in a straight part is an cage match. that is what republicans need to do in senate raises in montana, in south carolina. and yes, need to keep a number of traditional republican voters in line in georgia to be only to hold those seats too. but the opportunity for democrats here is take a look at the latest favorability for donald trump. it was 45% favorability, 55% unfavorable. a bit higher than our polls. but you mitch mcconnell was 27% to 58%. so there is an opportunity for democrats to run against very unpopular establishment republicans who they can portray as part of a radical anti-roe v. wade right. >> and before i go here, what has been amazing is you brought up georgia and, mark, we have this ad today, at till the atil

hun ad. and here is some be who is an atlanta suburban business woman. who is -- if this isn't a reminder of how the republican party has to market itself to have no association with what they are marketing themselves for, i don't think what is more embem malemati emblematic. but this is truly one that is odd because it is embracing of a liberal testereotype. >> more conservative than atilla the hun. like china. got it. attack big government. yeah. h eliminate liberal describes. >> kelly leffler, 100% trump voting record. >> i guess they don't think that

there will be a runoff for the democrat. >> chuck, there very well could end up being. we have to see how it plays out. but leffler was appointed by the rationale the republicans wanted to can better in the suburbs to actu actually have women in representation there to help the party statewide.better in the s actually have women in representation there to help the party statewide. of course that kind of ad if there is a runoff could end upcoming back to hurt her because you are really not playing to the middle of the electorate and particularly those suburbs out in atlanta. >> and dave, how does that ad help david perdue and donald trump? >> yeah, mark is absolutely on the money here. this is not the type of republican candidate in leffler who will be helping the ticket. and there is a potential for both these senate races to go to a january runoff.

she is exactly the type of candidate who could turn off a lot of suburban voters because she is the kind of neighbor they dislike. >> i have to say this decision not to play with the middle, it might be a necessity of the trump campaign, but now the entire senate ticket seems to be joining them. we'll see how it works. thank you both. and if you have not marked your calendar, today is national voter registration day. so if you haven't registered, you better do it and you better do it today. the deadlines are coming up fast. there is everything that you need to know at our interactive plan your vote guide. yes, there are a few states where you can register to vote the day you vote. that is not the case though in most states. find out when the deadline is. it is coming up very soon. nbc news.com/plan your vote.

up ahead, politicalization of the cdc. with so much on the line, how does this agency recover from what is now a badly tarnished reputation. economics? algorithms? magic? turns out, it's you. doing your thing. nbc news.com/plan your vote. nbc news.com/plan your vote. dreaming dreams. building new worlds. it's why we built our workspace technology. to help you do your best work and to see what you can become. you're made for bigger things. it's official: national coffee day is now national dunkin' day! celebrate with a free medium hot or iced coffee with any purchase on september 29th. with any purchase but a resilient business you cacan be ready for it.re. a digital foundation from vmware

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spain and france and many other country, we've reached appar perilous turning point. >> and that was are boboris joh announcing new lockdown measures as the number of covid cases rise in the uk. they are seeing over 4,000 new cases a day as part of a second wave hitting europe. and joining me now from london is keir simmons. and i have to say, to see the uk shutting down as their peak goes up to 4,000 a day, it does seem as if the uk is shutting down under a circumstance that is far less risky than the circumstances we're living in right now here in the united states. >> reporter: yeah, that may be true, but the reality of this virus is that we get told again and again that it moves so fast. and what they are really worried about here, the scientists and the lawmakers here, is that there will be an exponential growth in the virus despite the

fact of having been able to control it over the summer. which will mean that it will get out of control. the announcement that the prime minister boris johnson what are limited measures. britain's famous pubs and restaurants were closed at 10:00, weddings will be limited. but what they are not doing is the kind of lockdown we saw in the spring when schools were closed but people couldn't go to parks. and another thing that they are saying here because we're heading into the winter is these restrictions may last for six months. people are bracing themselves. what you are seeing politically with boris johnson, with the government here, is them desperately trying to calorie brats how much you can take the country with you, what people are prepared to do in a liberal democracy, people's sense of their individual rights and at the same time the collective need to control this virus. it is shred difficuvery difficu get right. and the question will be whether the uk gets it right.

>> so keir, was it hospitalizations, is that the big uptick? do they really believe that the spread is at tributed more to pubs than to schools being open? >> reporter: it is a great question. they don't want to close schools because, i can tell you from bitter experience, and certainly we found here in the uk, and you know it from there, closing schools is just so damaging. so the best worst option if you'd like. yeah, the hospitalizations question is a really good question because we haven't seen the rise in hospitalizations here despite the rise in infections. but i don't know that that necessarily will reflect the future. some reasons why that you are talking about there, that we are talking here in europe about a lot, is it young people mixing

more where older folks are being more cautious. she don't believe th they don't believe hospitalizations won't rise if they don't get the infections under control. there is talk about whether there might be a milder virus circulating. but december might tthere is so don't know about the virus and so it comes back to the question politically, the prime minister was at chequers this weekend with his cabinet trying to decide what to do. but it is a really tough decision to make. another question, if you second a fixed message about what people should be doing which the government did over the summer, do people really pay attention to that. you need bold tough lockdown kind of messages in order to kind of control this. and all of these things are lessons that they are still learning here as people are around the world. >> keir simmons on the ground for us in the uk, thank you.

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the cdc is walking back guide anxious that t guidance that the coronavirus spreads through the air less than three days after putting that guidance on the website. cdc called the updated guidance a draft and saying that it was posted in error. so is it an error, a draft? experts and scientists have been warning that the virus is airborne for months. shoot, president trump told bood wood it go bob woodward it goes through the air. a vaccine could still be months away. and so here with us, an

infectious disease expert. and so we've been talking about this cdc issue for months now and it is like every time you think that the cdc's reputation can't take another hit, lo and behold here it comes. this is not a small thing to get wrong. is it airborne or not? >> yeah, good afternoon. it is particularly important because it has major implications for everything else that the cdc has suggested that the public should do in its guidelines. so what are we really talking about? just to catch everyone up, what we're talking about is the understanding of science of how the virus is that when someone is sick, when they are in-febin they are not just shedding it within six feet, but the findings now demonstrate that person who is potentially indoors and is sending out this virus up to 20 feet in some stud studies and the virus can infect farther, can stick around longer, so if that is the case,

you can imagine being in a room with someone for an extended period of time without masks on and without good ventilation that that creates a huge amount of risk, right? and so that affects schools, that affects restaurants, it affects businesses, it affects their guidance the sooed would ha cdc would have to give. so i think that most of us have been saying even if the virus is not predominantly airborne, it happens enough so that they should update the guidelines. and to see the cdc do this over the weekend was great because i think that meant that everybody else was going to start ramping up, changing our policies. to see them then take this back, i think that it is just another step in politicization even if they end up putting it back up, the appearance of it and what they put back up will be on everybody's radar. the only way that i think that we get beyond -- and the cdc sort of regains some of this is for us to see more of cdc, more cdc scientists coming out explain being the nuances.

and honestly for director redfield to come out and be open about all the events that have happened with the morbidity, mortality, with the guide line, be honest, come out, explain what happened. that is how we make our path back. >> so i referenced the president talking with woodward and he describes how it is airborne, you just breathe the air, bob. that was february. why did it take the cdc seven months to even update the website for two days since they have taken it down? but i mean, this is what apparently we all knew in february and we're still debating about how much we should warn the public about this. >> reporter: this is where the nuance part of it becomes important. and i think this is the reason why we need more cdc scientists on the air talking about it. we've always known this is a

respiratory virus that travels by air. the earlier questions, does it travel as far as we think it does, does it infect at those far distances. and those are some scenarios in which we've seen for example cases where there was a sick be person on a bus and they ended up infecting everybody in this closed space. there was a case over the weekend about somebody in first class traveling from new york who ended up infecting everybody. 92% within two feet. so over 60% attack rates for people farther than that. so all of those new key data about clusters have cinched the understanding that at least in some cases this virus acts like measles. maybe it is not always like that. and i think part of the dragging of the feet is that if it truly is air born, what does that mean for all of us in health care, what does it mean for

businesses. and that is what i think needs to be handled with greater care and we need cdc's leadership in that. >> and i think that it is pretty obvious why there is such nervousness about that. if this is airborne, which apparently all the evidence -- sorry, i thought -- didn't the cruise ship debacles of february and march sort of put an end to this idea of how easily it moves? but i assume that this is all about if the cdc says that it is airborne, then our economy probably needs to be shut down more than it is. >> yeah, you have to deal with the cognitive dissonance that we are saying that people can be indoor without putting all the ventilation that we need. you know, think about kids in school about 6 feet apart but without good ventilation, what does it mean for schools. what about indoor restaurants. it requires that there is greater investment on the part of government to make all of

those environments safer. and i do think that we need to do this. if we'll move between now and next fall when we might come back to a level of normalcy and god know what is will happen in the future, we live in an age in pandemics, these are investments that we should be making in our society anyway. >> doctor, thank you for your expertise on this. and coming up, we'll dig deeper into the political influence at the cdc and plus the global implications of the president's repeated claims. f the president repeated claims. . >> the united nations must hold china accountable for their actions. >> tech: at safelite, we're here for you with safe, convenient service. >> tech: we'll come right to you. ♪ upbeat music >> tech: you'll get a text when we're on our way. >> tech: before we arrive, just leave your keys on the dash. we'll replace your windshield with safe, no-contact service. ♪ upbeat music >> tech: and that's service you can trust when you need it the most.

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one wash, stains are gone. daughter: slurping don't pay for water. pay for clean. it's got to be tide. welcome back. the cdc is having a trust crisis. as with mentioned just a few minutes ago, earlier the cdc posted that the covid update was a draft put up in error. this is not the first time the cdc has put up information confusing to the public and contradictory to what scientists have recommended. just last month, the cdc released new testing guidance that said people without covid symptoms did not need to get tested even as we know asymptomatic carriers can spread the virus and spread it quickly. according to a new kizer poll, public trust in the cdc has dropped a whopping 16 points from early april.

83% now down to 67%. turning now to dr. william shaftner. an infectious disease expert at vanderbilt university. the cdc put out that information that the virus ais transmittabl and retracted it. >> well, it's very distressing. once again, there's confusing information from the cdc. i have no insights into the process there. but clearly, we need to have sustained clear messaging. that used to be the hallmark of the cdc sh, rigorous, science-bd information that we could rely on completely. even those close to the cdc and fond of the cdc are concerned

about the messaging. we've got to get this straight because we have to restosh tre faith in the cdc which until recently has been the premier public health institution of its kinds in the world. and we need to help it get back on track and to get politics out of the cdc. >> so, dr. shaftner, what would be the implication of them putting up guidance that says it's airborne and sticking to it? so that if the cdc, seven months after donald trump cold bob woodward it was airborne, the cdc doing that, what is the trickle-down effect? i assume this is major financial implications for lots of businesses, schools and governments? >> i think that that's probably the crux of the issue. as dr. bhadelia was saying in the previous block, we know that close end transmission occurs

very, very frequently. we know it's possible for distance transmission to occur at least occasionally. the question is how often does that occur. is that just a little side street of transmission? and close-in is the highway? that's the way most of us in public health think about it. but even if it's just a side street, we need to help communities, businesses, schools, other institutions figure out how much to invest in re reinvigora reinvigorating, reconfiguring their air systems. what it does mean, whether close in or far away sh, keep on your mask. that's very important. >> right. look, it seems crystal clear it's the schools we're dealing with. i grew up in a school district with no windows. no ability to open any windows

in any school i attended in miami-dade county. i know that's regularly the case. i assume the implication for schools when it comes to air filtration, financially, it would be huge if this is considered more than a side street. help ask you this, what do you consider the risk of airborne contagion? >> well, i thought of schools just the way you did when i first started to think about this even more than businesses. my current notion confirms with what i think most of us in public health think. it's a side street, yes, it does happen, but it doesn't happen with great frequency. on the other hand, if i were running a business, i would look at my air handling system and say is there anything we can do to improve this, more air exchanges per hour, for example? and just look at what it might take to improve it even further. >> do you think this is

something in a perfect public health response system, is this the type of thing that government should be assisting schools and businesses with? >> well, certainly, i think the government can help people assess what the nature of the problem is. and provide paths to solution. and if financial assistance were possible, then i would think, of course, that would be a great catalyst to people actually doing something. it's consistent with the approach we've had for a long time. no clear national direction would follow up consistently over time. >> you know, one of the other problems we've had at the cdc, they'll make these recommendations, they'll post them on their website, but they barely want us to know about it. it's like they whisper. hey, by the way, we've updated our coronavirus -- wait, what?

they also don't broadcast their additional recommendations very often these days. >> well, chuck, you wonder whether they're in the current circumstances permitted to do that. as we all know, back in the day, there used to be daily briefings from the cdc, by experts, telling us where we were in the circumstance such as this. we would wish that once again, the communication center would be in atlanta, at the cdc, rather than in washington. when it happens in washington, it has that political surround, right? it has that political taint. and people get very cautious and suspicious. when it used to come from the cdc, that was the straight skinny. >> that was the beauty of them being in atlanta, and not washington, d.c. dr. william schaffner of

vanderbilt university. thank you for your perspective. and msnbc continues with steve kornacki sitting in for katy tur, right after this break. still your best friend. and now your co-pilot. still a father. but now a friend. still an electric car. just more electrifying. still a night out. but everything fits in. still hard work. just a little easier. still a legend.

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good afternoon. i'm steve kornacki in for katy tur. it's 2:00 p.m. in washington, where at any moment, we expect to hear from senate leadership. both parties held their weekly meetings, and each one of those sessions, no doubt the supreme court seat left vacant by the death of ruth bader ginsburg. today, the white house confirmed it will hold a nominee on saturday, the same day he's scheduled to hold a rally in pennsylvania and we learned that mitt romney the start of the bl