indict any of the officers involved in the direct killing of breonna taylor. one officer was charged with a wanton shooting. that wraps up this hour for me. i'm going to see you right back here tomorrow at 3:00 p.m. eastern. "deadline: white house" with nicole wallace starts right now. >> hi, there, everyone. it's 4:00 in the east. anguish and frustration spilling into the streets of louisville, where peaceful protesters are demanding justice after a grand jury ruling today in the case of breonna taylor's death. taylor, of course, was shot and killed by police in her home six months ago. the charges decried by protesters in louisville as woefully insufficient. "the new york times" describing shrieks of disbelief from the crowd after the announcement of those charges was made. here they are, just one of the officers involved in the shooting at taylor's home.

brett hankinson was indicted on three counts of wanton endangerment in the first degree. those charges are for firing shots that entered other apartments, but not for firing at or killing breonna taylor. no officer were charged in her death. the charges were described by taylor's family attorney general, benjamin crump, as outrageous and offensive. crump adding, quote, if brett hankinson's behavior was wanton endangerment to people in neighboring apartments, it should have been wanton endangerment in breonna taylor's apartment too. in fact, it should have been labeled wanton murder. already, the reaction to today's announcement ripping through a tense nation, experiencing a moment of reckoning around issues of race and police brutality. joining our conversation, david henderson, our friend, jason johnson is here, professor of journalism and politics at morgan state university and a contributor for the grio.

but i'm going to start with my friend and colleague, cal perry, who's been on the ground for many months. cal, i know in your live shots this week, even with me, you've been trying to brace for this. but it's still shocking when you read it out loud. explain why there are charges for shots fired in apartments other than breonna taylor's, but not in hers? >> reporter: right, so things are very raw here. mark can kind of go over my shoulder and show what's happening behind me as i talk through some of those charges. people on the ground are very angry. they're angry at the media. they're moving the media around. and it is incredibly, incredibly tense. as you said, these charges, only one of the officers, detective hankinson, was actually charged. he was charged with wanton endangerment for firing into another apartment. the other two officers were cleared. no charges on them. and so at the end of the day, six months after breonna taylor is killed in her own apartment, the view here on the ground is as if those officers were found

innocent. i think people, and you sort of got to this, are not surprised, but they're somehow still shocked and traumatized, because this is about breonna taylor, and it's also about what this country is going through. and when you talk to people here, and you're going to hear from them now, when you talk to people here, they'll tell you there are bigger issues here, like the way the police deals with the community, the way that the two communicate or don't communicate. the fact that the police here are not wearing body cameras. that they were not wearing body cameras that night. that the incident report that was filed months later did not list any injuries. it is that deep level of mistrust that has led to today and has led to the yelling that you hear behind me. and has led to really, i think, a lot of people scared about what happens next for louisville, because it is, of course, not just people from louisville that are here now. we have seen militias in the area, just a few blocks from here. police are making it as hard adds they can to get down here, nicole. i know we showed you this

yesterday, but the dump trucks are still here. police and officials are trying to make it very difficult to get here. we will see if that works. there is a curfew in place from 9:00 p.m. until 6:30 in the morning. the national guard has been activated and a state of emergency has been called. so certainly, the city is preparing for a protest. we will see how it sort of plays out tonight, nicole. >> cal, i just want to press you on something you just said and make sure i understand what you're saying. militias are in the area? what kind of militias? >> reporter: so they call themselves the national patriotic defense team. and this is a group that i've been sort of keeping an eye and trying to communicate with for the past few months. they were a part of what was called the 3% militias, what is still called the 3% militias. they splintered, they said, over a disagreement of what is happening here in louisville. about a dozen members -- and again, you will see them in full military camouflage gear, carrying long guns. and that is something as well that just here in kentucky is commonplace. people carrying weapons here. this is a right-to-carry state and so many people have weapons.

the other thing that has developed here today on the square behind me, you'll see a lot of folks wearing all black, carrying baseball bats and wearing flak jackets, this is clearly -- and you can hear now, i think this is important, people are mad at the media, they're yelling at us. they're trying to move us across the street and yelling at our security. it's a very tense scene out here. people are in anguish, again, having been here for months, people are so upset over the fact that they believe that these police were just let off the hook. that there was no justice for breonna taylor. this has become a national movement, say her name, breonna taylor. and i think today people are truly exhausted and they're angry, nicole. >> i want to separate out the two issues. a young woman has lost her life, the city has faesettled with he family for $11 million or 12 million, but admitted no wrongdoing, and today no officers were charged for firing the shots that killed breonna taylor. a second double headline seems to be the thing i'm hearing from you. there are militias in the area,

armed people that aren't actually in the military, and there are people wearing black flak jackets and carrying baseball bats. who are they hunting, cal perry? i just want to understand this before things get more tense. >> reporter: look, i think that there is a group of people here that are looking for trouble. and that is often the case in these movements. and unfortunately, we have seen in the city of louisville, as the black lives matter movement has at times been co-opted for people looking for trouble. and we have seen that after curfews in the past. unclear if that's what's happening today, although it certainly seems to be an indication that that is what is happening. the other thing you seized on, this settlement with the family, the $12 million, that's one thing. but the police reforms were actually really important in that settlement. we saw more reforms come from that civil settlement than we saw today from the grand jury. that now you have to have a supervisor sign the warrant. that you have to have body cameras on at all times. that you have to have people and supervisors and cameras on when you look at evidence, when you actually count the money and you check it in.

but the bigger picture to your question, sort of who is here and as you see these pictures on your screen, you're looking at some live protests from about three miles from here, from the other side of the city. you have what has been a small group, peacefully protesting, walking around the city and you have here in the square, as you've heard, people yelling at us, trying to get us to leave, very upset. i will say also, it's worth noting, while you look at those live pictures, there are police there in that camera on that shot, the national guard is staying out of sight. they're staying back, that is a very intentional move. when the national guard has come on to these streets in particular in louisville in the past, it has sparked these protests. >> i want to be really meticulous with the facts as we understand them right now at 4:00 p.m. i'm sorry if this gets tedious for you, cal perry, but you've mentioned twice that people are mad at the media. who's mad at the media? and do you feel threatened? >> reporter: so the folks in the square. and this started, i would say to us, about 72 hours ago, where

people were upset that the media has been coming -- and there is a very large media presence. mark, if you want to swing around and show, nicole, we'll pull the curtain back a little bit. international media in very long numbers. and i think there is -- i don't think -- there is a growing frustration here in this location -- there is a growing frustration here in this location that the narrative has changed. that it has moved from breonna taylor to a city that is plagued by violence. i have heard that a lot. people coming up to me and saying, please stop showing our city as one that is plagued by violence, that is constantly seeing violence. i understand that, at the same time, we do see in this city armed militias, armed individuals who are walking around the city in full camouflage gear in order to send that message. we see folks dressed in all black with baseball bats slung over their shoulders into holsters. we see folks carrying long guns. we see folks wearing flack jackets. i've seen members of the media, people who call themselves media, wearing a flak jacket

with press on the front. that is a very gray area. that's a very gray area when you talk about who is a blogger, who works for digital, who is a member of the media, and then who is wearing a flak jacket. it is confusing when you're here on the ground to separate out these different groups. and it's something that officials here have dealt with in the past and have found difficulty in dealing with in the past. you can hear the frustration behind me and you can see it, nicole. and again, this square, there's been an attempt to rename this breonna taylor square. and i think what happened here, folks are very concerned that they're losing control of their message, that it is not about breonna taylor. go ahead and swing and show that corner right there. there you can see folks on that corner with the baseball bats. they're dressed in a way to make a point, to make a statement. the gas masks, the long assault rifles, the baseball bats, the medical equipment. all of which designed to get a reaction, and of course, does get a reaction. and once curfew hits and once the sun goes down, that is in the past when we have seen

things turn. obviously, the hope is that that will not happen, and again, police have made it very, very difficult to get to this downtown area. they have made it very difficult for cars to get here. they can't get here. you have to walk in, you have to interact with the police. we'll see if that makes a difference, nicole. >> cal, i have two more questions for you. i've heard the frustration with the media, too, and i think what you're doing is valiant and telling a really important story. i just want to make sure i understand, the two people you just zoomed in on with baseball bat, dred in black with their faces covered, we hope for covid, they're not associated with the black lives matter protests, are they? >> reporter: we don't know. and this is part of the confusion. a lot of people here, and certainly the militias will tell you, we are here to protect other people. the president, i think at times views folks who are dressed all in black calls them antifa without knowing. i will tell you that time and time again, people will tell us,

we are here to protect the protesters. we are here to make sure that there is no violence. as you continue to hear people -- and i want to let some of this audio come through, nicole, because i just -- i have never in my career ever been in a situation in this country where there is such distrust of the media. and it is so wide, and it is so widespread. and people are voicing that distrust. and they're voicing that they at times do not want us here. and what complicates that, not wanting us here, is what people are wearing. are the guns, are the flak jackets. that is what i think makes it a more difficult situation. it is what makes it a more explosive situation for the officials and the authorities, who in a press conference today, had to make it clear that members of the media were exempt from the 9:00 p.m. capurfew. we were all having a conversation here, what do we do at 9:00 p.m.? we're already kind of being moved and shuttled around and pushed across the street and the last thing we want to do is

incite anything, all of which is just again to say to you, things are not only very tense here, but they're boiling over. and it's because people are frustrated because 194 days ago, a woman who was unarmed was shot inside her apartment. there was an exchange of gunfire, there were no police body cameras, there was a bad incident report, and they're just here on the streets of louisville is an overwhelming feeling that there has not been justice for breonna taylor, which has what led us to this point. >> cal, we're going to keep an eye on you. wave your arms if you have any new information or if anything on the ground changes. but i'm glad you brought us back to breonna taylor. the culture has adapted the rallying cry, say her name, for the very reason that cal perry just articulated. at the center of this relatively small area, geographically, but very, very hot situation

politically, and from a public safety standpoint, is a woman whose life was cut short. she had a brilliant future ahead of her. and we will make every effort in our coverage of whatever happens there today to say her name. breonna taylor, jason johnson, today, no one charged in her shooting. >> um, yeah, i'm not surprised, nicole. i'm not surprised. and you know, every time this happens, and this has happened a lot, i always tell myself before i go on the air, i'm not going to get pissed or do any sort of performtive tears or rage or anything like that. and yet today, i can't help it. i'm so disgusted by this. i'm so disgusted by daniel cameron's performance. i am so sick and tired of black people going on the air and performing for violence and

white supremacy and state-sponsored violence against black people and claiming their ma mas and because of black people they care about -- this woman got shot in her house! when she was asleep! it's like atatiana jefferson got shot playing video games with her nephew at 2:00 in the morning. like botham green was eating ice cream and got shot on his couch. if cops busting into my house right now and shot me on the air, what daniel cameron basically told america is that that would be legal, if they thought that there was something wrong, i could be shot in broad daylight, on national television, in my house, because the cops can break in and shoot whoever they want if they're concerned. that is why people are upset. that is why protesters are mad at the media. because they're tired of these discussions being teased out in ways that give justifications for nothing other than state-sponsored white supremacy

and killing of black people. it is so infuriating and so maddening. and i empathize with the people who are there and i empathize with the protesters who are going to be home by 9:00, nicole. that's the thing! the black lives matter protesters, they're going to take their signs and they're going to go home. and you're going to have a whole bunch of interlopers and white nationalists and 3 percenters and terrorists battling out in the church, like no church in the wild video, and that's how the black lives matter protesters will get depicted. i want to thank you for being so good in your opening, by saying, hey, can we distinguish between the people wearing black and the folks protesting. can we distinguish between the white nationalists walking around with guns and the people there who are centering breonna taylor? because that's where the frustration comes from, not that another life was snuffed out, but that a lot of people aren't doing what you're doing, about our criminal justice system and those who want to co-op the

experience for their own political joycs. >> i want you to say more, can you just keep going, but maybe pick up on this idea that if you're not safe in your house and you're not safe on the streets -- wtf? i mean, where do we go from here? >> you're not safe anywhere. because i can't go anywhere, nicole. if i go jogging, i could end up like ahmaud arbery. you can't go anywhere if you're black. and what's so disgusting about this, i mean, again, the 3 percenters, they're a terrorist organization. this is a chant i heard from some of my activist friends. when activists go out there and they say things like, the cops and the klan go hand in hand, people have been saying that since the '70s, the reason they say that is because you have white nationalists walking around with guns and the cops are fine with that. they're not pulling those people off the streets. they're not pulling rittenhouse off the street. and black people -- these guys are there saying, we have to protect folks. who's the person who's afraid? it's the black people!

who can get shot anywhere under any circumstances! and then have it justified in these horrible press conferences, which are these orgies of zbludisingenuous nons about the law! like it was her own fault she got shot in her house! and i think it's really important going forward, really, really important going forward that if this happens to breonna taylor and it happens to atatiana jefferson and it happens to botham gene, think about all the times this is happening every single day, because there's no video, because there isn't a local activist organization, because there isn't a good reporter on the ground. people are being murdered every single day by police who are not being held accountable. and i don't want to hear about any good cops, because if they were good cops who were concerned about this kind of behavior, they would be out there protesting too. and we don't see enough of that. what we do see collusion between attorneys and police and white nationalists, so when some black person dies, there's always a justification for it. >> i want to bring david

henderson into this conversation, but i've got one more for you, jason johnson. we also have a president who can't or won't be briefed about the domestic terrorism threat posed by white nationalism in this country. it's been testified to by the current fbi director, christopher wray. it's been attested to by elizabeth kn elizabeth neumann, where her job was to monitor threats to the homeland. and a threat to the homeland is the very element that cal perry just reported to be in the streets of louisville tonight. militias. >> yeah. this is -- you know, this is how hand m handmaiden's tale, starts, right? because you have these violent militias in the street and the president is encouraging them. when you talk about terror, more police officers have been killed by white nationalists in america than al qaida. more police officers have been killed by white nationalists in america than mi5.

it is domestic white terror that is the greatest threat to our way of life. and our president has been a terrorist sympathizer. and if there was ever any doubt, all you've got to go is go back to my alma mater of charlottesville and uva where he said, it's perfectly fine on both sides, there were good people on both sides. that is the real danger. that every single time a daniel cameron gets on a podium, cries crocodile tears and claims that his mama will be concerned about him, he is sending a sign to white nationalists everywhere, with the tacit consent of the president of the united states, that you can do this wherever you want and we won't jail you, we won't hold you accountable. shoot all the black people you want. shoot all the protesters you want. because at the end of the day, this system is made to protect white violence. that's what we're hearing. and our president doesn't mind, because as long as they're killing people or threatening or intimidating people he doesn't like, whether that's in the form of marching through the street or trying to stop folks from voting in virginia, which we saw with militias here just a couple of hours away from where i a m now, the president encourages.

it and he is completely backed up by william barr and the rest of the republican party. >> i'm so grateful for you. stay with us, jason. i want to bring into the conversation david henderson. david, if you could take another stab at explaining these charges to me, one officer charged with firing shots into apartments other than breonna taylor's. >> what's necessary here to understand these charges is to understand what was not explained in today's press conference. can i relate to so much of what was just said, because i'm one of atatiana jefferson's attorneys, and both atatiana jefferson's case and botham jean's case happened right here in dallas, texas. i hope people understand these cases extend well beyond kentucky when we discuss the issues that came up today. we kept hearing over and over again in the press conference that a prosecutor's role is to figure out what happened. that's only part of a prosecutor's role. a prosecutor's official job description is to make sure that

justice is served. and at a time like this, it's important that justice is served and that the public understands how justice has been served. unfortunately, some of our laws need to change and the laws do limit the outcome in this situation. however, what's not being discussed is the fact that the grand jury process is a rigged process. people tend to think, oh, it's just like serving jury duty, where you go, you're there for a day, then maybe you get to go home. if you get put on a case, you might be put on a case for a week or so. grand juries tend to serve for weeks at a time, sometimes months at a time. there's a famous trial lawyer that used to give speeches and i've heard a number of them. and he said on mondays they used to make jokes about how the habitual felons came in on wednesday. so on wednesday when you present a case, the grand juries know, this must be habitual felon day. and there were judges who baked cookies from the grand jurors. they heard from the same

prosecutors every day over and over and over again and got to know them and got to trust them. the reason these details are important is because nont only o we not see a single charge for the death of someone who was an innocent person murdered in their home, we see charges against other people that could have been used to indict someone for also shooting at breonna taylor. the reason that didn't happen is because these charges are orchestrated to not only make sure that the officers face minimum charges, but they'll also face minimum punishments. when these cases go to a jury, part of what the jury will look at is, look, the maximum punishment for recklessly shooting into someone's home is five years. when they look at the fact that the person was charged with shooting into the home of someone who was not killed with, they're likely going to sign a low sentence or possibly even probation. if the jury knows this conduct led to the death of one person, even if the attorney general's verdict was very vague about

whose bullets actually killed breonna taylor, they would give less punishment had the officer or detective also been indicted for shooting into breonna taylor's home. >> david henderson, jason johnson, and cal perry, thank you so much for your candor and your insights on what is another unbelievably surreal day. i'm grateful to all of you. after the break for us, brand-new reporting that prompted a senior former intelligence official to tell me today that the current state of the ceo will, quote, haunt the living bleep out of us for years to come. and no surprise, it all has to do with donald trump and russia. plus, a solemn and remarkable day at the united states supreme court where justice ruth bader ginsburg is lying in repose as a grateful nation starts to say its good-byes to her. we'll talk to house speaker nancy pelosi about her legacy. and later on, our friend, the reverend al sharpton, will join us to discuss the bre onon

taylor charge. all that and more still coming up. don't go anywhere. all that and more still coming up don't go anywhere. ♪

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that's one plus one equals two. that is collusion. that's a direct tie between a known russian agent and the trump campaign to try to do what? to denigrate joe biden and to support donald trump in his re-election. that is straight-up collusion with a foreign adversary intelligence power to try to get the president re-elected. i don't know -- we don't need a mueller report or a senate intelligence committee report. it's right here for everybody to see. >> one day after former cia chief of staff jeremy bash called the latest cia assessment

that says that vladimir putin is likely directing the disinformation campaign against joe biden, quote, collusion in plain sight, there's disturbing new reporting today about the cia limiting the intelligence about russia that makes its way to the country's decidedly pro-putin president. just 42 days out from an election, that putin is working to sway, once again, for donald trump. the world's once-preeminent intelligence agency now reportedly shielding the american president from the most sensitive intelligence about russia. politico reports, quote, the cia has made it harder for intelligence about russia to reach the white house. stoking fears among current and former officials that information is being suppressed to please a president known to erupt in anger wherever he is confronted with bad news about moscow. trump has also been working to bring the intelligence community further under his control since his kbleechimpeachment acquitta

february. he's installed loyalists in top positions, like director of national intelligence and the senior-most intelligence post on the nsc staff. a former senior intelligence official describes today's state of the cia as one that will, quote, haunt the living bleep out of us for years to come and describes reports out today about the cia cheeld schishield white house from the most harrowing intelligence about russia as, quote, the most chilling f'ing thing i've ever watched. joining us now, senior intelligence security for nbc news and former director of the cia, john brennan. mr. brennan, your take on the reporting yesterday that vladimir putin is most likely directing the disinformation campaign that is front and center in the donald trump campaign smearing joe biden. and the follow-up reporting today from politico confirmed by nine individuals, nine officials that either worked in or work in the cia and intelligence agencies, that they don't tell the president the bad news about russia.

>> well, nicole, in 2016, it was vladimir putin who directed and authorized the russian intelligence services to try to interfere in our presidential election. and so i fully expect that putin would be willing to do that again, in light of donald trump's continued willingness to give vladimir putin and the russians a pass in terms of what happened in 2016, as well as in 2020. and now the political reporting, if true, is very, very worrisome, because if the cia is not bringing to the white house the intelligence that it collects, that deals with our national security, it is failing in its primary mission, which is to ensure that the intelligence it collects around the globe and then assesses and analyzes, is able to be used by policy makers to protect our national interests. and i can think of no greater national interests today than to protect this coming election in november from foreign interference. and specifically, russian interference, which i believe clearly is going to try to get donald trump re-elected once

again. >> director, i want to dig into the weeds of this reporting, because while it might be a small universe of former intelligence officials who understand just how far from normal this is, i think it's in the public's interest to understand how deeply corroded the norms are inside the cia. let me read this to you from politico. last year, three of the people said haspel, that's gina haspel, a current cia director, task the cia's general counsel, courtney elwood, with reviewing virtually every product that comes out of russia house, which is home to analysts and targeters which are experts in russia and the post-soviet space before it, quote, goes downtown to the white house. one former cia lawyer called it unprecedented that a general counsel would be involved though this extent. a former extremely senior intelligence official told me today that there is literally no example of anyone in the council's office having anything to do with the production, the product, the intelligence

product, which is made up of raw intelligence and the analysis that accompanies it. what does it say to you that someone, i believe so, miss elwood was brought on by mike pompeo and remains a pretty political force there inside the cia, at least that's her reputation. >> yes. well, cia has the leading world-class experts on russia, in terms of operations officers, analysts, cyber experts and counterintelligence experts. they are the ones that should be making the decisions about what is going to go forward to the white house and to senior u.s. officials. the general counsel's role is not to interfere in any way in the substance of cia's mission. and if courtney elwood is doing that and i have heard many reports that that is, in fact, the case, that is an unprecedented and very inappropriate role for the general counsel to play. now, the general counsel can be involved in whether or not certain information related to u.s. persons should be shared with the white house.

and we do that at the cia, that if we had some concern about some u.s. person's information that was collected in our pursuit of foreign intelligence, and we had questions about what to do with it, we would first duoto the department of justice and ask for their guidance. now, quite unfortunately, we have an attorney general who is very corrupt politically. and has just been able to continue to support donald trump. and so therefore, courtney elwood, who was appointed by secretary -- now secretary pompeo, into that general counsel role, is considered to be the political person for the white house at the cia. and i sorely hope, truly hope that she is not trying to interfere at all in the production of intelligence. but by most accounts, including this political account, she is interfering in that process. and that is something that is exceptionally worrisome to agency officers currently in langley, as well as former intelligence officers. >> i want to connect some dots

for our viewers and flesh out this point a little bit further about courtney elwood. she's also, based on news accounts, the individual that when she learned about the whistle-blower at the cia, the analyst who heard about the call in which donald trump extorted president trump zelensky and was holding up the military aid that was congressionally approved, she called someone in the quhounwhite house counsel's office, a gentlemen named mr. eisenberg. today "the new york times" reports that mr. eisenberg was the one who intervened improperly and politicized the review of john bolton's book. let me read you this headline. "the white house proceeded to have a politically appointed lawyer, michael ellis, a former aid to representative devin nunes, republican of california, and a close trump ally, conduct his own review of the book. mr. ellis had no training in pre-publication reeves at the time. he underwent it after he completed his review and

announced the book replete was still classified information. during the ukraine call, ellis, nsc lawyer john eisenberg's deputy was involved in eisenberg's decision to bury the call on a secret server. we're just looking at dots, director brennan, but you spent your career looking at dots. and i guess my broader question is, does it seem that anything in our national security agencies is still sacred and protecting the national security or has it all been influenced at this point by donald trump or fear of donald trump? >> well, i think the record over the last three and a half years is that donald trump has really tried to stifle significantly, the voices from the intelligence in law enforcement community. and he is suppressing information and intelligence that may run counter to what his preferences and druthers are. you mentioned before just how abnormal these times are. i have never seen anything that

approaches the type of corruption that is going on right now, that unfortunately seems to be seeping into our revered intelligence and law enforcement communities. and when the leaders of those communities do not stand up and say "no," they are failing in their responsibilities. and i'm glad to see that christopher wray has stood up and has said things that has irritated mr. trump. well, good on the director of fbi for standing up for the women and men of the bureau. and i do hope the leaders of the intelligence community will do the same for those people who put their lives on the line around the world, 24 hours a day, 7 days a week, 365 days a years on behalf of their fellow citizens. if cia leaders are not bringing truth to power, they are failing in their solemn responsibilities to help keep this country safe and secure. >> is it your sense that gina haspel is not doing what you just described? >> i don't know. i don't know.

i hope -- and i've known gina for many years. i very much hope that she is fulfilling those responsibilities. i'm sure it's an exceptionally difficult and challenging time for her, given who we have in the white house, given donald trump's behavior, his attitude. i'm sure that she is trying to protect the agency and i hope that she is doing it to the best of her ability. but she has to make sure that she is going to continue to fulfill her responsibilities, which is to bring that intelligence forward. and when the russians are interfering in our presidential election or other things, she needs to tell the white house in a loud, clear, and consistent voice. she should not be shrinking from that responsibility, because donald trump doesn't like that information. and all intelligence officers need to rise to this occasion, because i know that the next 50 days or so are going to be difficult for them and this is the time where they're really going to have to prove their mettle to make sure that they fulfill their responsibilities to the their fellow citizens. >> director brennan, if today's

headlines or any indication, we will be calling on you early and often. thank you for your time today in helping us understand this. i'm really grateful. after the break, house speaker nancy pelosi joins us for a discussion about ruth bader ginsburg. also, we'll get her reaction to the breaking news out of louisville. "deadline: white house" after this. le "deadline: white house" after this ♪ ♪ it's official: national coffee day is now national dunkin' day! celebrate with a free medium hot or iced coffee with any purchase on september 29th. with an♪ purhere? nah. ♪ here? nope. ♪ here. ♪ when the middle of nowhere...

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i mentioned at the outset that ruth's passing weighed most heavily on her family and that is true. but the court was her family, too. this building was her home, too. of course she will live on in what she did to improve the law and the lives of all of us. and yet, still, ruth is gone and we grieve. >> that was chief justice john roberts on grieving the loss of a legend, justice ruth bader ginsburg we're honored now to be joined from capitol hill by house speaker, nancy pelosi. madam speaker, first, your thoughts on justice ginsburg. >> it's so heartbreaking. she was so courageous, so brave, to brilliant. she had so many diagnoses, which she overcame. she was a real fighter in terms of her personal health and for justice and america, both. but at the end, on the eve of

rosh hashanah, she said her good-byes, and it's heartbreaking for all of us. but may she be an inspiration for us to go forward. i was sharing with members today a story that she told. a couple of years ago we had women's history month, that's march, we honored the women members of the supreme court. she being the senior member, she spoke on behalf of them, and she talked about the first woman who tried to be accepted as a judge before the court. the judge said "no" because she was a woman. she then went on -- this is over 50 years ago, she went on to the congress and lobbied and lobbied and lobbied until the congress passed a bill that said that if the person met all the qualifications of speaking before the supreme court, whether they're a woman or not, they would be able to do that. so justice ginsburg went on to

say, this is one time when the congress was more in tuned about what was going on in the country than the court. i love that story. >> you know, we rushed -- your story reminds me that we in the media rushed past remembering her legacy because of the political crisis that it put in motion. and i wonder both, if you could just speak to both of those challenges for you personally. everything she believed in, and it's a lot of the same things you believe in and have championed, seems at risk with the mounting reality that donald trump will be able to confirm a justice to replace her. >> but as i want everyone to know, she was tiny if physical stature, but monumental in her impact on the court. so when the word came that she had passed, it was devastating, personally, as well as officially. i never thought, shame on me,

for hoping for the best, that the republicans would within a couple of hours of the news of her passing say when they were going to try to fill the seat. notice i didn't say "replace justice ginsburg." they're not going to replace justice ginsburg, but to fill that seat. you would have thought that any sense, one grain, one iota of decency would have had them to say, let us thank god for her as a blessing, though we didn't always agree with her, let us pay our respects to her family, so that they can properly bid their farewell to her so that she can rest in peace. that's not what they had in mind. and i think the rush is all about the president wanting to overturn the affordable care act. so we're saying to people, if you care about having the benefit of a pre-existing condition, understand, that's what the president has in mind, overturning the pre-existing condition. taking your kid off your policy,

your adult children, who are there until they're 26. it's also about turning around the progress made for women's health. where the day being a woman is a pre-existing condition. medicare, medicaid, all of it affected by the affordable care act and lifetime limits that affect people. they have to have a limit on what they're expected to pay. so it is about kitchen table issue for the american people. so if they want to open the discussion, let's tell everyone why. it's to overturn the affordable care act and all the benefits that, the benefit, the lives and livelihood of the american people. so sad. you know the oral arguments begin november 10th. oral arguments begin november 10th, so we want to get somebody in there november 10th. most unfortunate. >> and in addition to turning

the clock backward on reproductive freedoms, and as you said, overturning the affordable care act, donald trump has made it a line in his rallies that he expects the courts to determine the outcome of the presidential election. >> the president, we know, is a master of diversion. he'll change the subject anytime. right now, he is the subject of concern because he's been a total failure in addressing the coronavirus. as we cross that sad barrier of 200,000 people who have died because of it, we mourn, we mourn the justice. that's for sure. she's 87 years old, she's lived a brilliant life. we would have loved for her to be over 100. but this is 200,000 other people, husbands, wives, parents, children, siblings, loved ones who have lost their loved one and we have to mourn each and every one of those, as

well. and this president has been a total failure in protecting the health and well-being of the american people by his delay, his distortion, and his denial of the -- well, the virus, but also, ignoring the solutions that we have, in fact, in the heroes act, a comprehensive plan again and again, for how to crush the virus. instead, he wants to crush the affordable care act in the courts, in the time of a pandemic. >> madam speaker, we've talked about your role in sort of steering, and oversight role in the area of intelligence. it's been described to me as nothing short of a moment of crisis, an hour of crisis for the cia and the intelligence agencies. yesterday's report that putin is likely directing the disinformation campaign against joe biden, reporting in "the new

york times" that the russian trolls are basically at risk of being put out of worveg, because they can just screen shot donald trump's twitter feed. and the reporting in politico today that the cia director, gina haspel, ax the russia house intelligence and filters it through a political appointee, the general counsel there at the cia before any of it makes it to the white house. what do you do to make sure that the intelligence product isn't corrupted? >> well, i'm unaware of what you said today about director haspel. i hope that that is not true, because that would be a major distortion of intelligence. as i've said again and again, the intelligence is our first defense in terms of protecting the american people. it is -- when i first went into the intelligence world, it was like 25 years ago, it was about forced protection. how we protect our troops if they are going to go into battle, or if they are, how we have force protection. it's not about politics.

it's about patriotism. it's about our country. but to infiltrate the intelligence community for a political reason is a grave injustice. and that is exactly what this president is doing. they claim, well, while he hear didn't hear, he doesn't read, he does read. doesn't matter. there's an obligates on the part of the intelligence community to brief the president of the united states on daily basis and the rest of us, too. they don't own the intelligence. they are custodians of it. for them to have a distortion knowingly, wittingly, by the political side of things is really, will harm our national security. i joined director brennan in saying what he said about our men and women working in intelligence, the field. they deserve our gratitude, risk their lives, their families make

sacrifices, and when their work is politicized, and i've been a victim of it in my time some years ago, by the politicization of it, it's just simply wrong. it's a tragedy for our country, and i hope that what you said about gina isn't true, because i have more respect for her than to think that there would be a political falter before anything is said to the president, even though it goes into a tizzy when anybody talks about russia. we know that, because, as i say again and again, with him all roads lead to putin. we don't know what putin has on him, politically, personally, financially, whatever it is, but for the president to say now, i like putin and he likes me, just shows you how bereffed he is of any sense of patriotism or protection of our intelligence committee and sacredness of our elections means to our democracy. >> speaker of the house, nancy

pelosi. madam speaker, thank you for spending time with us. i saw all you have on your plate. so much going on at this moment. >> one thing, breonna taylor, breonna taylor, breonna taylor. say her name. thank you, nichole. >> thank you. thank you for bringing us back to the news we started with. sneak in a quick break. we'll be right back. break we'll be right back. - completing the census ensures federal dollars are spent on schools, hospitals, and restorations in our neighborhoods. - funding is at stake for marginalized communities. - so make it count to be counted. the more you know. tonight, i'll be eating a veggie cheeseburger on ciabatta, no tomatoes.. [hard a] tonight... i'll be eating four cheese tortellini

with extra tomatoes. [full emphasis on the soft a] so its come to this? [doorbell chimes] thank you. [doorbell chimes] bravo. careful, hamill. daddy's not here to save you. oh i am my daddy. wait, what? what are you talking about?

...to soccer practices... ...and new adventures. you hope the more you give the less they'll miss. but even if your teen was vaccinated against meningitis in the past... they may be missing vaccination for meningitis b. let's help protect them together. because missing menb vaccination could mean missing out on a whole lot more. ask your doctor if your teen is missing meningitis b vaccination. as governor i cannot control decisions made by an attorney

general's office. i cannot control decisions made by a grand jury. and i don't lead local law enforcement offices. but what i can control is how i lead. what i say. what i'm committed to doing. i can listen. and i can try to hear. and i can be clear. systematic racism exists in this world, in this country, and in our commonwealth. that was kentucky governor andy beshear reacting to the news today that a grand jury decided not to bring any charges against the officers involved in the shooting of breonna taylor. we will go back to louisville in the next hour plus much, much more. stay where you are. we'll be right back.

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we need nine justices. you need that. with the unsolicited millions of ballots at this ending it's a scam. it's a hoax. everybody knows that, and the democrats know it better than anybody else. so you're going to need nine justices up there. i think it's going to be very important. hi again, everybody. it's 5:00 in the east. the latest democratic hoax is democracy herself. so says the president of the united states. who's already leveling allegations of voter fraud. so baseless that even his own fbi debunked them in advance as polls show him losing hisne joe

and in critical battleground states. trump warning in that statement already raising alarm among national security officials that he expects a fight over the election result to reach the supreme court. assuming the election doesn't go his way, of course. the revealing comments, which he's repeating today, are just the latest in a massive campaign by the president of the united states and his allies to disrupt and delegitimize the vote. an effort that's the subject of a stunning new piece of analysis out this morning from "the atlantic" previewing what barton gallman describes without an ounce of hyperbole as "the election that could break america." writing this -- "there is a cohort of close observers of our presidential elections, scholars, lawyers and political strategists, who find themselves in the uneasy position of intelligence analysts in the months before 9/11." at november 3rd approaches,

blinking red. the system good not know how to absorb. they see the ob signs we see and know subtle things we do not. something dangerous is in view and the nation lurching in its path. gallman warns of a scenario swiftly becoming a mainstream concern of the former national security and intelligence officials alaermed by trump's contact and rett rishetoric whe cans to the upsumming election. t worst case is not that he rejects the election, but uses hi power to deliver a decisive outcome against him. trump's state and national legal teams already laying groundwork circumvent the vote count in battleground states ambiguities in the constitution and logic bombs in the account make it possible to disspend the dissfut election day. bringing the nation to a press

piss. one arrives with all the tools and power of the presidency already in hand. this is where we start this hour. some of our favorite reporters and friends, white house reporter for the associated press jonathan lanier is here and former democratic kot congresswoman from marilyn with us and from the fbi, frank and luckily all of them msnbc contributors. i start with you, jonathan lemire and alarm in national security circles and folks going on the record with bob woodward. dan coats saying he wasn't sure what putin had on him but seemed like the end there was something. christopher wray publicly at odds with donald trump over the election meddling threat posed by russia. donald trump attacking him on twitter and in public statements to the press. you have the agencies that have been cleared out by and large of career national security officials and are led in large

part by political cronies. i'm thinking of the dni and the justice department. is there a sense that the professionals are losing the battle to protect the country from the president? >> well, nichole, that's what the bob woodward book raised. john kelly, tillerson, that group who felt, and we can question whether they should have stayed in this administration long as they could but did so because of a dut toe serve and protection the nation what they saw were the president's worst impulses. the idea he was looking out for himself, from a political frame and not always in the national interest. all of those men are gone. as you say, you have been largely replaced by those who are far more politically aligned with the president. don't have necessarily the lengthy track records of service, and instead seem far more willing to bend to this

president's whims, and certainly from day one of this administration he has undermined the intelligence agencies and helsinki is the most known moment of that, but there have been countless others, and the morale has been damaged and the departments 'em eve s emptied o. we're seeing here with the election just six or so weeks away great warning signs there could beous interference, namely from russia. every time the topic comes up the president conflates it with china and iran saying these are countries who want him to lose. that may be true but not actively interferes. nowhere near what the tremendous volume of interference that russia continues to launch at the united states right now. there's reporting today, further reporting. the cia changed its briefing structures because the president accident want to hear about russia. they keep those matters from him because they're afraid of his response. and certainly as you say, if this is going to be a contested

election, if there's going to be legal challenge after legal challenge, the supreme court will matter. obviously, there's incredible right emphasis on things like abortion rights and health care and gun control. all things that could be dictated by this new supreme court, which we assume certainly seems likes it's on track to confirm another trump-appointed judge. another matter is simply, the election itself. and that may explain why the white house and mitch mcconnell are so adamant to get this done before the election. not the lame duck session. this judge will be in place, a third trump appointed just in place, to rule on litigation about the 2020 election itself. >> frank, just listening to jonathan lemire, stunning is that it's all out in the open this time. you just reported mitch mcconnell wants a justice confirmed before the election, to rule on the election. it is as jeremy bash said yesterday, collusion out in the open. we all know now that vladimir

putin is directing the disinformation campaign against joe biden. we all know now that donald trump views 64, 65% of americans the same way he views ish and china, as meddling in the election simply because they don't support him. he don't support him and he is out to invalidate and war against the votes of anyone who doesn't support him. how does the country in 42 days adapt to bart gelman's scenario, frank? >> yeah. we -- we are in for a roller coaster ride of scary proportions between november 3rd and inauguration, and we can see the battle plans as you said. there's nothing secret, not only about the president's strategy that he's clearly articulated along with his cronies the dni, the secretary of state, the attorney general, the head of

dhs, not to forget the post master jern. there's nothing hidden abouts with collusion with russia and vladimir putin. this isn't about investigate and catch me, if you can. it's, you've got me. what are you going to do about it? and so the question is, for the american voter, right? what are the tangible things that we all can do? and number one, we've been warned by the fbi now repeatedly that we are in for disinformation and propaganda like we've never seen before, aimed at destroying our trust in the outcome of the election. they're at work right now doing it on social media. so do your best to deal only with trucsted sources. spend time away from social media. prepare for the inevitable, lengthy count of both in-person and mail-in ballots, and just understand that when you hear people say, we should know this, november 3rd.

that night. we should know it the next day. we should know what happened within a couple of days. understand that's coming straight from the kremlin amplified through the oval office and spread like a virus through social media, and just discount that, husker down, and get ready. hunker down and get ready. >> frank, got to go deeper here. let me read that fbi warning you just referenced then we'll talk more. from the fbi warning about the disinformation you referenced. americans should look to state election officials for trusted results in november. the fbi said tuesday. as bad actors may try to sow chaos while votes are still being counted. one scenario, hackers defacing websites to indicate false election results, causing chaos and confusion while affecting vote tallying systems. frank, that's terrifying. >> yeah.

look, back in 2016, for those of us who read tmueller report and saw two dozen russians were indicted for messing with the 2016 election, in the fine print there we saw that russia had waved hello, gotten into the systems. the voting systems. state, county, of certain states and just told us we can get in here, we just wanted to say hello. they didn't do it as far as we could tell, but they certainly had the capabilities to do it and reason to believe they're scanning and looking for vulnerabilities now. not chumley puactually pulling trigger, but if they decided to, or north korea or china or indecided to break in and compromise the results of voting or simply transmission of results or as you just read, simply put out the enough propaganda to make us think, we have an outcome already. maybe it's done. then we've got a problem on our hands. it's not unlike the whole reporting around the vaccine for the virus. what happens if you put a vaccine up and nobody believes

it works? what happens if you have an election, and no one trusts the outcome of it? we are in an age where truth is essentially dead and we've got to build it back ourselves. it's on the voters, the counties, the states. your local registrar of voters to get it right and actually, if there's a bright spot in this, that's the bright spot. that it's not a federally-controlled election. it's down to the local and county and state officials. >> uh-huh. donna, read you a little more from that "atlantic" pease we led with. let us know hedge about one thing, donald trump may win or lose but never concede not under any circumstance. not during the interim and not afterward, if compelled in the end to vacate his office trump will exist from exile long as he draws breath, the contest that rigged. >> well, those are really heady words, i'll tell you.

i think increasingly it's a worry that i've had and tried not to share, but i do think, nichole, the president has already sent signals about the way that he views this election, and he's already said the signals, actually said out loud. the votes cast on election day are the only votes that count, and he's laying the groundwork for challenging all of those mail-in ballots that may come in after election day, even though they're cast under state law. so i am deeply concerned. i also believe that we have strong institutions that are conducting our elections, and that people should have trust and confidence in their local elected officials. but you see right now republicans and the trump campaign, i mean, there are hundreds, literally hundreds of legal cases ongoing now through the federal, state and local courts challenging the election

processes, the ballots, the mail-in ballots. the rules and the regulations. and so there's no reason to believe that if the president is challenging these things before the election, that he won't continue to challenge them afterwards. we have to have institutionalists and leaders who stand up and say to this president, we don't just have an election day. we have an election season that people should be patient as we're counting those votes, and that all of those votes that are cast under state law and are done legally should count and we should count them. and trust that our institutions are going to stand the test of the interference that's going on, and the fact that the president of the united states and the levers of government are not there to back up our elections and our institutions, and this is the thing that i worry about, is that the president won't just use his office, but he will use every lever of government to challenge

our election, and to sow discontent with the election results. so i do think that this is a really important election. not just for 2020, but it's an important election to test our system and to test whether or not our systems and institutions can stand up even to this president. >> you know, jonathan lemire, i want to share some of what trump said at his convention but not broadcast it. let me read it. trump said, they will be sending them ostensibly talking about absentee ballots, dumping them in neighborhoods. people will pick them up, bribing, paying off people to grab some. this is going to be one of the greatest scams and it is common sense. who's mailing them? mostly democratic governors in democratic states. suppose they don't mail them to republican neighborhoods? the only way they can take this

election from us is if this is rigged. three blatant lies. a republican election lawyer, good as they get in this area, has said on the matter of voter fraud, election fraud, it isn't really a thing. the only one committing it, again in plain sight, is donald trump calling on his supporters to commit the felony of voting twice. >> awe lies, nichole. certainly right. reflect back that, of course, voter fraud is so rare in election experts, they've pointed it out time and again. and the president couldn't stomach the idea and convinced millions, perhaps about 3 million, basically the margin he lost the popular vote to hillary clinton, those must have been, those must have been cast illegally, and even assigned a commission with great fanfare to look into it and it was disband add few months findy quietly finding no evidence of voter fraud. this time around fixated on the

idea of mail-in ballots because of the pandemic, still surging, of course, many say because of his failed handling of this crisis. therefore in a number of states and cities voters simply don't feel safe to go to their polling place, and, therefore, want to mail in their ballots instead. democrats are indeed encouraging this. while republicans, because they listen to donald trump, seem more inclined according to polling to system go and do it in person that day. the president asserts night after night, it wasn't just the convention speech. in every rally since making the same charges, suggesting that the, there's, the only way he could lose the election if it was stolen from him. i was with him a week or so back out west in reno, nevada. said the same thing and charged the democratic governor there. this man can't be trusted to oversee and election process. sending ballots to everyone. therefore, it will be fraudulent and sowing seeds of doubt now and will keep doing so in the

next six weeks. the results on election night, he will cast those into doubt and fight it toothed and nail believing with a legal challenge, perhaps, with a newly minted justice on the court. >> frank, just take me inside what christopher wray's existence must be like with the president expected to do everything that jonathan lemire just articulated with an electorate expected to do what donna edwards just articulated. hope that local election officials are the one institution that holds in the time of trump. what's christopher wray going to do to protect our lives, protect the vote from russian interference that donald trump is waving onboard? >> you know, i have repeatedly referred to the men and women of the fbi as imperfect heroes. they screw up sometimes but they're still heroes, and they're human beings doing extraordinary things. i think christopher wray showed us in his relatively short

tenure that he's prepared to do what's right, and we need no other example than this most recent testimony on the hill where he was unafraid to say the truth. he was unafraid to say, yeah. russia is actually trying to denigrate can't biden. yeah. the biggest threat we face is that the american people will lose trust in our election system. he gets it. he's not somebody that needs to worry about where the next paycheck is coming from. he's going to do the right thing and most importantly, he's going to instruct the men and women of the bureau to do the right thing. so they're playing whack-a-mole now, nichole, particularly cyber counterintelligence folks. literally they are 24/7 in a fight for democracy in terms of making decisions about when to take a site down. is this a russian signature we see in this potential intrusion or is it chinese? or theiranians-of-pretending to

be north koreans? going on 24/7 almost like a 9/11 pos khmer ature and they've got right. no room for error here. >> jonathan lemire. thank you, my friend, for starting us off with your spot-on, sadly and alarming reporting. when we come back the attorney for breonna taylor's family is calling it "outrageous and offensive" after a grand jury fails to return any charges directly linked to taylor's death. we have the latest from louisville next. plus, science versus ideology. dr. anthony fauci fires back at republican senator rand paul for suggesting new york city reached herd immunity and that was why coronavirus cases aren't rising there. that's even as health experts warn of the second wave this fall. and russian trolls working to spread disinformation ahead of the november election have a much easier job in 2020 than in

'16. all they need to do to sow discord this time, quote donald trump. after a quick break, don't go anywhere. ♪ ♪ get a dozen double crunch shrimp for one dollar with any steak entrée. only at applebee's. tonight, i'll be eating a veggie cheeseburger on ciabatta, no tomatoes.. [hard a]

tonight... i'll be eating four cheese tortellini with extra tomatoes. [full emphasis on the soft a] so its come to this? [doorbell chimes] thank you. [doorbell chimes] bravo. careful, hamill. daddy's not here to save you. oh i am my daddy. wait, what? what are you talking about?

outrageous and offensive. those are the words from the attorney for breonna taylor's family after a grand jury in louisville indicted one police officer on charges of wanton endangerment in connection with the death of breonna taylor but did not bring a single charge against the officers involved in shooting her. and causing her death. protesters have taken to the streets of louisville and while

they remain peaceful, the demonstrations are marked with frustration and anguish over the decision not to charge the officers involved in taylor's death. nbc news correspondent cal perry is back with us from louisville. also with us, our good friend the reverend al sharpton head of the national action network and host of "politics nation" here on msnbc. donna edwards is still here. cal, take me inside what's happening on the streets there. >> reporter: show you right here. so just in the last few minutes you can see bottles thrown at the police. the police have created this line. we are still in the same location that we were an hour ago. but now we are starting to see -- what is developing into a clash. you'll see more police now arriving on the scene in riot gear. it is still a relatively peaceful protest, as i said. definitely seeing bottles thrown. there has been some pepper spray used. not tear gas yet. we are keeping an eye on that. as you said, the family of breonna taylor now reacting as you look at these live pictures.

i want to give you some of what they said. they called the grand jury decision "outrageous and offensive to breonna taylor's memory" calling it a "documented and clear overup at the death of an unarmed black woman who posed to threat and living her best life." i would share something posted on instagram from breonna taylor's sister. she writes, sister, you were failed by a system you worked hard for and i am so sorry. i love you so, so, so, so much. 192 days ago breonna taylor, say her name, a national movement. breonna taylor ill canned in her apartment by police. nichole, we talked about this. it has led to this moment. this city is at the same time not surprised and shocked. i think people feel in many ways helpless. how could this happen as we've talked to people who have said that. how could this happen in 2020 when we've had a moment of national awakening and i'm sure, sure the reverend is going to disagree with me here. how could this happen?

well, it's happening and it's happening again and again, and the result is what you see now. not only distrust between the community and its police force but growing dissatisfaction from the lack of any legal outcome that would fall for breonna taylor, nichole. >> cal, stick with us through this segment. i brick in the aforementioned reverend al sharpton. the floor is yours? any thoughts? >> well, i think that clearly this is the real clear and blatant example of what we're talking about. when we use the slogan "black lives matter," what this grand jury and this prosecutor came back today and said, it is, blacks lives don't matter, because the only charge was the charge for the recklessness of one officer, and it was not even about him being reckless about breonna taylor. the death of breonna taylor has been now deemed that it was

fine, allowable and there was no criminal act. which devalues all of our lives. the fact that they shot her going in her home, after someone who was not even there, in fact, already was in custody, that her and her boyfriend's there. her boyfriend thinks someone is breaking end. they don't shoot the boyfriend. they shoot her. if that's not some kind of manslaughter charge at minimum, i don't know what that is. clearly this is an example why we need federal laws and why we cannot trust could continue to go to state attorneys who work hand in glove with the police. i also think what is important to raise here is that i would hope that the energy that we get out of the anger, and i'm anger and outraged about that, but that we direct that energy toward voting so that mitch mcconnell, who's the main source of this prosecutor and others

will have to face a system they uphold. usually say nichole, we'll go to the feds. to go to william barr is an exercise in futility. you need a new attorney general, and it would not be too late next january for the federal government to look at this. because breonna taylor's civil rights have been violated as well as she's a victim of i think a direct manslaughter or murder. >> donna edwards, bring you in to this conversation. as callous as it is, we've said, over the last hour and a half, say her name has become synonymous with the real shift in the views of a vast majority of americans. americans are all ages, of all genders, of all race, by and large, support the black lives matter movement, and see

institutional racism as the problem that it is. talk about how this decision today, from this grand jury feels like it got punched. feels like a step back after six months taking to the streets and feeling like change might be possible? >> well it is such a sad day for breonna taylor and for her family. she did not get justice today. and i think it's endemic of a system that fails black people over and over and over again, and so i think -- i mean, i was not surprised by today, but i was sadly not surprised. breonna taylor was in her own home. it was the middle of the night. she didn't have a weapon. she didn't shoot anyone. and yet two police officers shot her six times, killed her, and face no charges. there's no accountability for them, for her death, and i think that, know, looking at this, you

see a system that just simply does not work for black people. and when i think about this grand jury, the grand jury saw the presentation of the evidence through the eyes of the attorney general daniel cameron, and i think that that accounts for why it is seeking no charges at all related at all to breonna taylor's death, but to, you know -- like almost like you threw a firework out into the middle of a crowd wanten endangerment. so i think it's just a really sad day, and i hope that the protests will continue through the evening and that they will be peaceful and that there will be accountability at the ballot box, in kentucky, as reverend sharpton has said. mitch mcconnell, his job is on the line today and the voters of kentucky can send that message

both to the attorney general but also to mitch mcconnell, and i think that we then have to work towards a justice system that really is about delivering justice for breonna taylor and for all of the breonna taylors there are out there, and, you know, for black people, you know, i think of this injustice. there's no way to put words today to the experience that people suffer every day in a system that was not built to protect them and to protect their rights. >> rev, i want to ask about something cal perry reported top of the last hour. it's the presence in louisville of militias. of people that aren't in the united states military and do not appear to be part of any police department or law enforcement but who are on the ground there. they obviously represent a

danger to everyone on all sides of this, but how do you protect the peaceful protest movement from being conflated in the minds of anybody watching with bad actors? >> i think that we've got to say that clearly as the family has said, they do not support any violence or even the appearance of violence, and let me say this -- as angry as all of us are, even though we're not surprised, any violence is only supporting the efforts of those that rendered this kind of noble indictment today. donald trump supporters and mitch mcconnell supporters, i think, would run on law and order if there was rampant violence here tonight. they would exploit that politically and people need to understand that we cannot fight this by empowering or giving the ability of people to manipulate this to their political advantage.

>> the reverend al sharpton. donna edwards. cal perry, thank you to the three of you for spending some time with us on today's very sad news. when we return with coronavirus cases on the rise in parts of this country, and all around the world, dr. anthony fauci tells a republican senator he is dead wrong about herd immunity. we show that to you next, when we continue. when we continue. infected.

>> how can we possibly are jumping up and down saying, oh, governor kwoenl oh did a great job. >> no. >> he had the worst death rate in the world. >> no. you misconstrued that senator and you've done it repetitively in the past. they got hit very badly. they made some mistakes. right now if you look at what's going on right now, the things that are going on in new york to get their test positivity 1% or less is because they are looking at the guidelines that we have put together from the task force of the four or five things are masks, social distancing,

outdoors more than indoors, avoiding crowds, and washing hands. >> or they've developed enough community immunity that they're no longer having the pandemic because they have enough immunity in new york city to actually -- >> i challenge that, senator. >> your time -- >> please, sir. i would like to be able to do this because this happens with senator rand all the time. you are not listening to what the director of the cdc said. that in new york, it's about 22%. if you believe 22% is herd immunity, i believe you're alone in that. >> spitting truth, but today is likely the last time we'll hear from the top health officials under oath, before the november election. with the number of new cases now on the upswing. increasing. in 29 states, and washington, d.c. it's a concern, especially now with the onset of colder weather. this country's startling number of fatalities. now more than 202,000 souls

lost. joining our conversation is global health policy expert and msnbc medical contributor dr. van gupta and joins by "washington post" columnist and political analyst eugene robinson. i could watch tony fauci spit truth at the disinformation elves on capitol hill all day long, but two really important factual points there. new york's in a good position that it's in now with some schools sending kids back to in-person learning in public schools, still talking about doing that this fall. because of the measures it's taken them. everywhere you go in york city people have masks on, social distanced and a lot of things moved outdoors. >> exactly right, nicolle. senator rand paul should have his m.d. revoked. he is just -- whether masking or whether it's common sense, dr. fauci consistently goes against his own profession.

the medical profession, and what are good for patients. you know? the first thing that gets is first do no harm. he's repeatedly done harm. let me add to what dr. fauci said here. you know, the only reason new york city is where it is today, thinking about opening up school it's is what you said, nicolle. anner shutdown relatively speaking. had shut down restaurants, expanded testing. masking is all but universal in new york city and yes, a densely urban area, multiple connections dploeb l globally, were going to get hit and no anywhere near herd immunity. the notion that would protect new york city entering whan we fear is the fall wave is disinformation and it's dangerous. especially, say this last point, on the heels of a recent study out of houston suggesting this virus is changing. it's genetic footprint is

fundamentally changing. a vaccine developed on the current day, what coronavirus looks like in the current day play not work as effectively because we're building it on current day genetics, not the way it's actively changing. we need to message on distancing, masking, until this true he goes away and not put all hopes in a vaccine bucket. >> you know, interesting, eugene, and i think it was director redfield who said right now wearing the mask is more protective than any vaccine will ever be. to dovetail on dr. gupta's point, i can't get to the "why?" ? i see the what, and cover it every day, but i also cover the people who have died, and i have no idea the political affiliation of any of the people we have eulogized on this show, but they're male, female, they're children, they're grandparents. they're every race. why is the whole republican party in on the big lie about covid?

>> i don't get it either, nicolle. i will say just as an opening that on an otherwise soul-crushing day, the one ray of sunshine was watching tony fauci annihilate rand paul at that hearing. and speak truth. >> i totally agree with you. that's how sad i am. >> to the man he referred to as senator rand, which i also thought was great. >> loved it. >> but -- but, no. why are they -- why are they taking this position? and you know, look. president trump is the only answer, the obvious answer. he said the other day, this is a virus that affects virtually nobody. and so that means that 201,000 nobodies, i guess, have died. and their families, their bereaved families are, nobodies as well. it's just, it's an astonishing,

astonishing irresponsible and callous position to take, and it's hard for me to believe that the entire republican party. i know it's trumping. i know they owe their political support to trump, but just as human beings. how can you not -- how can they not hear themselves? how can they not understand the damage that they're doing, and the deaths they're going -- literally they're going to cause? by taking the stance that they're taking. it's just -- it's just absolutely incomprehensible. >> well, and people have talked about the hypocrisy of having a standard they won't have for whomever donald trump announces this saturday, but the real hypocrisy is that donald trump will likely spend a large part of the next 42 days trying to spread the lie that he's the most pro life president in history. in his mind that might be tied

to judicial appointees. they have allowed the death of 200,000 americans by helping donald trump spread disinformation that we know now from bob woodward, eugene, was just that. a known lie. >> a known lie. i mean, as someone who's been on the progressive side for a long time, us progressives argues for a long time republicans are more interested in life before birth and that after birth, but -- >> right. >> but in this case, when we have people dieing, and constituents are dieing, how can they not be moved by that? and how can they not understand that the only responsible thing for any public official to do is to try to save lives, and that means masking, social distancing, the same messaging over and over again, and yet they refuse to do it. unbelievable. >> dr. gupta, go full q&a for

the mom s of america here. cdc issued guidelines on halloween separating out the various activities associated with halloween. like trick or treating as low, moderate and very risky. put trick or treating right in the middle for moderate. what's your guidance on halloween? >> my guidance would be, and i'm saying this happening across the country, do scavenger huntsz at home for people you've been socially in place with. avoid trick or treating now. doesn't make a lot of sense to do that in the middle of a pandemic. if i may, nicolle, the q&a, i brought props. the questions i'm getting about holidays. hey, doc, how can we travel safely to go see grandma, grandpa or loved ones? here's the truth. and this is unadulterated truth. the only way to do that, nicolle, maybe 0.1% of the population has access to this. i've shown this a few times. test yourself on the day before,

on the day that you get on a flight. hopefully quarantine for about five days before you test yourself with one of these expensive machines. and then when you're on a flight or on a train wearing an n95 mask that's well fitted. remember, nicolle, nobody can access one of these because we don't have enough of them. the flip side, mom, dad, grandma, grandmom, wear a mask up to 72 hours we think if you're otherwise healthy and hopefully one of these guys to test yourself. then you can take off the mask. crude guidelines. no consensus, but i'm emphasizing that because how many people have an n95 mask? well-fitting, readily accessible. not many. 0.5% of the population? maybe health care workers. shoeb have a high-quality testing machine? nobody. nobody can confidently feel they can travel safely on a plane right now through the holidays. that's wa people care about. nobody's talking about it. >> yeah.

dr. gupta, eugene robinson, can't say you'vist willed my spirits at all but i appreciate the candid truth. thank you both for spending time with us. when we return, russian trolls trying to spread disinformation ahead of november's election, an easier way to do it this time around. just cut and paste donald trump own words. that story when "deadline: white house" continues. house" continues. you hope the more you give the less they'll miss. but even if your teen was vaccinated against meningitis in the past... they may be missing vaccination for meningitis b. let's help protect them together. because missing menb vaccination could mean missing out on a whole lot more. ask your doctor if your teen is missing meningitis b vaccination. ask your doctor if your teen did you know liberty mutual customizes your car insurance ta-da! so you only pay for what you need? given my unique lifestyle, that'd be perfect!

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it's a great time to be a russian troll. in the "new york times," how donald trump is making it easier for russian troll bots to spread disinformation and confusion about our election. quote, rather than travel the back roads of america searching for divisive issues, as three russians from the internet agency did in 2016, they are staying home, grabbing shots of president trump's twitter posts and then amplifying his messages. days after tweeting that mail-in ballots lead to fraud, the russian website r.t. posted an article calling trump's claims completely right. when trump floated the idea of delaying the election over unsubstantiated claims of fraud, an article titled, voting fraud is real, the electoral system is vulnerable, appeared in an online journal soon after. according to the state department, that journal is directed by, wait for it, russian foreign intelligence

services. even trump's attacks on this election are spread by russia. he claims that joe biden may be taking drugs to enhance his performances. a claim the russian government news site sputnik repeated. this is a homeland security correspondent for the "new york times," frank is also back with us. if the world was not in such a hot mess, i feel like this would have been our lead story today and i'm glad we're getting to it. take me through the almost redundancy of what donald trump says and russian propaganda disseminates. >> right. one intelligence official described it to us and i think summarized it well by saying that if you're one of these people working for one of these sites, websites affiliated by

russia, your job has gotten easier. in 2016, what you saw, russian disinformation, what that really came in, these affiliated actors finding false stories and amplifying it on social media to sow the division. you might see a meme or a post that was amplified on social media. now it is no longer searching for some of those egregious stories. just taking the misleading statements of the president of the united states. whether it is quoting him and putting that in. you mention someday examples there. there's news front which pushed out a misleading statement around the confirmation of joe biden's mental health,

denigrating his mental health. news front is one of the sites identified by the state department as one of the proxy sites helping russia spread the disinformation. you have to imagine here, the complicated position that this puts intelligence officials in. you're no longer trying to search the web and take down false narratives. before these russian backed sites. but this may require you to look for posts that are quoting your own boss, the president of the united states, in an effort to prevent the kind of interference we saw in 2016. >> it just strikes me that four years in, we are still so ill equipped for someone like donald trump who lies at a pace the fact checkers and his people can barely keep up with but whose

lies are amplified by russians. >> yeah. our system has not caught up with our reality. our entire system was premised on the belief that our leaders would generally by and large follow the rules. here we are watching an echo chamber play out. the president says something and the intelligence services of our adversaries have their marching orders. so no longer does the fbi or nsa have to seek out some clandestine meeting. we harken down to the mueller report where we were looking for criminal conspiracy and collusion. did manafort have a relationship with this russian officer? was there a clandestine meeting here and there? you don't need that anymore. you take president's statement, you see his strategy and then you am me identify it and repeat it biffle the way, the most dangerous thing besides the outcome of the election is the

need for violence on our streets. let's watch what happens with louisville. let's look at the intelligence services to identify foreign amplification of street violence and watch what happens. >> i will stay on this story and ask both of you to come back early and often. thanks for spending some time with us today on it. when we return as we do every day, remembering lives well lived. ring lives well lived. try boost® high protein... -with 20 grams of protein for muscle health- -versus only 16 grams in ensure® high protein. and now enjoy boost® high protein in new café mocha flavor.

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for decades, frank lapierre worked early mornings. it allowed him to coach sixth through aids grade basketball, baseball and softball in the afternoons. some of the young men he instructed told the seattle time that he was more than just xs and os. he didn't just teach technique. he was a mentor, a life coach. he taught them about classical music, about fishing, about

photography, and most of all, about being a good person. with frank it was always, always, always positive reinforcement. if did you something wrong on the field or the court, the question was, how do you improve upon that? frank lapierre died of the coronavirus a few weeks ago. but in the hearts and minds of the nearly 700 people he coached, over 44 impressive years, he lives on and on. thank you so much for letting us into your homes during these extraordinary times. we're thankful. "the beat" with ari melber starts right now. >> we have a lot to get to. we begin with breaking news. no charges for the police killing of breonna taylor. all officers under review cleared of potential charges in the killing of the 26-year-old emergency room technician. almost 200 days ago. one officer was indicted on a lesser charge for shotsed