>> emily oster who's tracking this is going to keep us surprised of what you are learning. thank you so much. >> thank you for having me. all right, that's "all in" for this week. what a week. "rachel maddow show" starts right now. >> i appreciate it my friend, this has been a wild ride. thanks to you at home joining us. it has been a historic week. it is about to be a historic next few days. supreme court justice ruth bader ginsburg laid in repose outside the supreme court building for the last few days. we saw dramatic images of the public turning out to pay their respects, long lines from 9:00 in the morning to 10:00 at night. people turning out to mourn her.

just a very emotional thing to see the last couple of days. today ruth bader ginsburg received an honor that no woman ever received before. she laid in state at the united states' capitol. as "the new york times" put it, justice ginsburg breaks one final barrier. she's the first jewish person and first woman to lay-in state at the u.s. capitol. joe biden paid his respects today and senator kamala harris. one striking scene today was as bipartisan group of female senators and female members of congress who lined thesteps of the capitol as her casket was carried. after all of these honors, justice ruth bader ginsburg will be laid to rest at the arlington national cemetery with her

husband. she will be lay to rest alongside her husband. tomorrow, saturday, at 5:00 p.m. eastern, the president is due to announce his nominee to replace justice ruth bader ginsburg on the court. it is not clear whether or not that nominee will be confirmed before the election, confirmed before the inauguration, it is going to be a gigantic brawl in washington. nbc news is reporting that the president will nominate a hard line conservative named amy coney barrett. she has been a judge for just three years. she was appointed to the seventh circuit by president trump. she's 48-years-old, she will be the youngest. she served for the late justice

scalia. a justice like that replacing ginsburg will tilt the court clearly to the right. abortion right and particularly at-risk if barrett is on the court. she's one of among many choices in that regard. judge barrett promised to be a designing road to eliminate obamacare and affordable care act by which tens of millions of americans are able to get health insurance. the supreme court is set to hear arguments literally a week after the election. in a case brought back republicans and backed by the trump administration. a case that's designed to kill all of the affordable care act

which would among everything have the immediate effect of stripping coverage from tens of millions of americans in the middle of the coronavirus epidemic. the last time the affordable care act was before the supreme court was saved by one vote from chief justice roberts. barrett wrote a long article escorting justice roberts. that's what the republicans and the administration in the senate are trying to do. let's look at the politics here. thst a heck this is a heck of a argument. d we can and will nuke your health insurance less than two weeks. with that said, nothing is ever

certain with this president. we'll find out who his nominee is when he announces it tomorrow. there are multiple news erroring it is likely to be judge barrett. whoever it is, it appear that is the republicans will try to get the nomination done before the election, despite the fact when justice scalia died, the exact same republicans and exact leadership insisted that the vacancy had to be held open until after the election. despite that and the fact that the latest polling indicates that americans by nearly 20 point margin, the vacancy should be filled by the president who's the winner of the november e election. republicans are planning to move on as quickly as they can despite that. a lot of things are going to happen quickly over this weekend

and the next few days. remember that tuesday is the first presidential debate. president trump, former vice president biden will debate tuesday night in a case western reserve university of cleveland. the moderator is chris wallace on fox news on sunday. biden has made fewer campaign appearances, he says he's been focusing on debate prep. it is not clear what the president is doing during the debate prep and what he's been doing everyday is holding these increasingly large, almost mask-free and no social distancing rallies including this one he's doing tonight in virginia. this crowd was gathered there for hours before the president got there is. the president just taken the stage the last few minutes. health officials rtried to stop this rally tonight. a gathering of thousands of people violates the ban of that

state and in order to try to prec prevent the spread of coronavirus. a local director from state health department in virginia pleading with him to cancel it for health reasons. about event of this size during the pandemic is a severe public health threat. we ask you reconsider moving forward and cancel the event or scale it down to a maximum capacity of 250 people. that plea from local health officials. as you can see these pleas fell on deaf ears. trump campaign went ahead with this rally tonight. some people close to the camera are wearing masks and a lot of people are not and there is no social distancing whatsoever. the governor of virginia tested

positive for coronavirus within the past couple of days. they'll be isolating for the nks couple of days. the best thing you can do for us and fellow virginians is to take it seriously. just two days ago we learned mike parsons which insisted there should not be any mask rules in his state. parson parsons and his wife announced they both tested positive for covid. the case numbers overtime in missouri, you see a rise including recently. today missouri again reported a new record for its number of

hospitalizations. they also reported their second highest case count ever since the start of the pandemic. the task force tells us st. louis hospitals in missouri are seeing a rise, not just in covid patients from st. louis. st. louis hospitals are seeing covid transfers in other parts of the state. rural hospitals are starting to reach capacity. the associated press is bolstering that from their own today. covid surge very high in that state. missouri is not very long, seeing hospitals now and transferring patients around. in the great state of idaho sounded the alarm today that their facility is on the razor's

edge being overwhelmed by the virus. again, that's in idaho. the country overall hit the milestone of 7 million americans infected. and with 7 million infections, there are 274,000 fatalities. that's a bad baseline for things to get worse from. things are getsing worse particularly right now in the hartland, in the upper midwest, wisconsin is the state that nbc is characterizing the nation's hot spot for covid-19. this is the graph of new cases in wisconsin, this is not good. that's not good. wisconsin thought they had their first peak back in may and they

thought they had a much and terrible peak in july and august. today was reported over 2500 new cases. it is not just a surge of new cases. hospitals in wisconsin reported of the highest number of covid-19 since the start of the pandemic. wisconsin is just in bad shape right now. we are seeing it bad in a bunch of states including a bunch of states that have not taken aggressive statewide action to make things better and slow the spread. >> we look back right now, they are being driven by worsening situations in more states or not. >> when the leadership on this seems increasingly not just to fail but increasingly to be a little bit nuts. the president as i mentioned seems increasingly glee full of defying orders to do these large

events with no masks and social distancing. public health experts, coronavirus response are increasingly being described as demoralized in favor of the doctor where the president brought into deal with the coronavirus, the guy he saw on fox news. inside the white house, dr. birx and anthony fauci have struggled to compete with other doctors. that same piece, cnn reported on a moral crisis among the experts

center for disease control of the nation's best scientists demoralized not only by the constant attacks on their work but on the weak leadership at their own agency, particularly dr. redfield and frequently and skin consistently folding into trump's administration pressure that's blocking the release of scientific work from the cdc. >> in the midst of this, there are continuing revelation from the senior homeland security aide, mike pence. olivia troy who's coming forward, after leaving the white house, the president is unfit to office. we'll be speaking with olivia

troye later on this hour. what she describes is the president's shocking unfitness on the issue of covid-19. she's being brave of doing this. as a trump's whoite house official, all underway already and with great things ahead of her by all accounts for that career. she came out the way she has and said the things she has. >> she, herself, called for her people to be braver, too. for other senior officials who saw up close what it is like to work with this president and what she's like in office. she's calling on them to come out and join her.

robert krcur bellow, he would g onto serve nearly four decades. he was department director of the defense agency. robert cordello spent over 300 hours briefing his people. >> he's logged over a thousand hours in the white house situation room providing intelligence assessment and policy decisions. that includes this one, you will recognize a version of this photo. this is the famous white house situation room photo as the president and the vice president and senior leadership watched unfold the navy seal team that

ki killed osama bin laden. today in "the denver post," robert curdillo, as commander-in-chief, president trump comes up tragically short. it is not something that robert cardillo have done before. he said, "i can be silent no lo lo longer longer." there is one important exception to that statement. our current president, i have briefed him up close.

i will not provide details but suffice to say, the person you see over presiding over is the same one. that's the conversations are erratic and less than fully thoughtful. president trump's decision to rely on the board of dictators like lieutenant is unprecedented betrayal of his oath to the constitution. what's in it for me? we are fortunate that a true crisis did not occur during his first three years in office and 2020 happened. the reality and science of

covid-19 conflicted with his personal views. president trump knowingly down played the pandemic. four more years would be devastating. we must elect a thoughtful, moral responsible and respectful leer on november 3rd. our current president is not that leader. wednesd end quote. >> joining us now is robert cardillo. >> thank you so much for joining us, it is an honor to have you here today. >> happy to be here. >> for people trying to understand what it means for you to to be speaking publicly like this, i characterize it the way you did in your opt ed so we can see it through your own eyes in terms of how weird this is. can you tell the audience what the agency is as a way of giving this and understanding the background that you come in

from. >> i would be happy to. the nation is served by the agency and then finishes direct ler until last year. the agency maps the planet in a way, meaning for travel and navigation and for military deployments but also rescues and supplies. everything from ebola crisis and or change in nature but also making sure our military are safely deployed and can deploy their services around the plan. >> with those capabilities and as what you describe in the opt ed. it is the kind of intelligence that you are briefing and other

work that you have done in your career goes right to the top in some cases. given givall the time you spent the oval office. what is it so different about this president seeing him up close that made you feel you needed to cross into it and a new place you have never been in your life and let the public know your assessment now. >> it is a great question. let me first say what is called natural and that natural attention. if you are a professional, your job is to describe the world as you see it and to assess future sew surrogates and you do the best you can and clear as you can to help decision makers navigate their way into a dangerous world. that provision is going to come into conflict with policymakers. it is natural to do so.

i spend a lot of time in that conflict zone during the obama administration. that's normal conditions. what is exceptional about this president is that because again in my view, he based so much of his judgment about his view of the reality on his internal guidance that he takes in very little external input to that guidance that it becomes more than just a tension, it is a disconnect. >> disconnect is what i worry about. if you disconnect our most danger leaders from the community, which you risk are making an uninformed and ill advise and dangerous decisions. >> you described him being unwilling or unwilling to absorb

information that does not comport in his world's view. does that cause the president to seek out information that does comport with his own view. i feel like we spent a lot of time in the media puszzling the things that the president says that seems to come from some other place. there they are treatment for it or whether you can open up the bodies and addis infected. get rid of these things. you are experience is the president can't absorb information that he does not like. >>. >> i don't know, rachel if i can go that far. >> what i can tell you that it was my observation that she has had experience in which his i

think ti-- certain production f entertainment value and he obviously had that carried in with him to the white house. most of my interactions with him was in his early days and he was under going obviously a great deal of introduction, the information he had not seen before. obviously the president provided our best sources of information. so i would not say he blocked it but i would say that in my opinion difficulty aligning that information of what he brought in as his initial or enduring bias and that's natural. humans come with a perspective and they're experiencing as an intelligence professional, you have to add to that positierspe

to give inside. >> he had difficulty adjust thag bias that he came with to your point. he was reenforced by other sources of information but it appears to be difficult for him to pivot off of that perspective that he brought to the table. >> mr. cardillo of what you described of apolitical. you have not been spoken out. do you feel like you are sort of processing a rubecon that you are putting sming .

>> i do. but i must say, rachel, the way i see it we live in exceptional times. i think it calls for exceptional act. rachel, i would just say this is not about party. it is not about left or right or conservative or liberal. it is about service. i can't send it to the whole president, i have a limited view. i am giving you my opinion about, i thought the way that the conflict that disconnect thatti that exists between the national security information stream was heading to him and giving to him because put him at great risk. because of those interceptional situation, i did think i had to take this step and it was with a lot of thoughts and some

concerns. buy do think it is the right thing to do. >> robert cardillo, retired during the trump administration. thank you for all your decades of service to this country. and thanks for your bravery. i know you probably be anywhere else in the world. >> thank you, rachel. sfo >> we'll be speaking to the senior staffer to the white house coronavirus future cast task force. she's the homeland security. she was his seen nor calf she has a lot to say of what's happening there. she will be with us next. stay with us. ing there. she will be with us next stay with us

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it would be for me to discover all of these things that i found through ancestry. i discovered my great aunt ruth signed up as a nursing cadet for world war ii. you see this scanned-in, handwritten document. the most striking detail is her age. she was only 17. knowing that she saw this thing happening and was brave enough to get involved and do something- that was eye opening. find an honor your ancestors who served in world war ii. their stories live on at ancestry. who served in world war ii. tonight, i'll be eating a veggie cheeseburger on ciabatta,

no tomatoes.. [hard a] tonight... i'll be eating four cheese tortellini with extra tomatoes. [full emphasis on the soft a] so its come to this? [doorbell chimes] thank you. [doorbell chimes] bravo. careful, hamill. daddy's not here to save you. oh i am my daddy. wait, what? what are you talking about? more dangerous and corrupt president than trump. he's harming our basic values,

giving rise to hate, and he's selling out america to big corporations. i'm working to protect immigrants, women, communities of color, and lgbtq people. and i'm making corporations like pg&e and insurance companies play by our rules. we need experienced leadership to wipe away trump's stain on america for good.

for more than two years, olivia troye served to vice president mike pence. when coronavirus hits, she took on additional role. she became the vice president's lead staffer on covid-19 spro response. she briefs the vice president on covid. she held onto that role until last month until she decided to leave the white house and last thursday she released this. >> it was shocking to hear the president saying that the virus was a hoax. he does not care about anyone else but himself. he made a statement very striking and i will never forget it. i don't have to shake hands with these disgusting people.

those disgusting people are the same people that he claims to care about and people who go to rallies today who have complete faith of who he is. if the president could make the effort to tell how serious this virus is, he swrouwould have sa lives. olivia troye have became a few people detailing what's going on behind closed doors in the white house's disaster response of the pandemic. it caused her this remarkable step to warn the country of the president's unfit role. joining us now is olivia troye. i am grateful that you are here, i know you don't have to be here, i appreciate you making the time to be here tonight. >> thank you for having me.

i am happy to be here and i have been watching your reporting for quite some time. >> i am happy. i promise that i won't tell anybody. the one thing that surprised me and putting questions and thinking o f how to introduce you tonight, it has only been a week or so since you put this video out and since he came to know your story and what you wanted to say. does it feel like eight months instead of eight days? i imagine this is a radical transformation of your life. >> it has been. it was a hard decision for know do this. i am in a career of national security professional that's not exactly what we do and we are also traenined not to do that. it has been a roller coaster

ride. i am persevering and getting through it because it matters to me. >> i want to ask you some of the things how things work inside the white house. you are one of the few that made yourself available explaining what you saw and how decisions were made. you don't need to speculate on anything but you are the closest i have been ever to get to find out how things are working inside the white house. i want to ask about an antidote that you relay to the public about the president making a remark where he essentially said covid is a positive thing and that he did not have to shake hands anymore with people who he thinks is disgusting. was that a room full of people? were there other senior officials when the president

said that? did anybody express that to the president that was wrong or weird? >>. >> rachel, i was there when the president made the comment. i was sitting to the right and you know the infamous bench that i sat on for most of these meetings which meant the second row from where the cabinet sat at the table. they out rabviously outranked m. there were several people in the room. it was going to be a full agenda discussion on things we needed to get his clearance on and i got checks from him. things that the vice president discussed with a number of the task force. there was definitely a reaction around the room. i saw facial expressions and i saw people sort of look away.

some people chuckled and thought he was joking about it. it was egregious to me because even if he's joking about it, i thought making those kinds of statements of humans going through right now, through hard times, that coming out of your mouth as the president of the united states when there are so many things that should be going through your head at that time was mind blowing -blowing to me. >> in your role on the task force, working with the vice president, did you witness political pressure on the cdc to change their scientific advice in there and recommendations about covid? >> i saw a lot of political pressure and dynamics on the

doctors and the task force firsthand. there were certainly a lot of internal pressure from various senior political figures in the west wing. i saw the doctors bullied at time. i saw them at times have to really stand their ground and fight and sometimes when they did that it meant that most of you probably didn't see them in the press briefing the next day because they said something that was a little bit too norforthcog and very true and was not in line with their message. when it come to guidelines and documents that's critical to get out to the american people for the health agency, such as the cdc. my heart goes out to these doctors. i work closely with the doctors, i know dr. redfield closely, i

have seen him struggle with this hard challenging dynamic of how do you breathe this pandemic. you are the leader of an agency, you got staffs and scientists working day and night while you are trying to stand up with these difficult circumstances. i saw this hammippening repeate. >> who were the figures that would put this kind of pressure on the doctor? i can't imagine being a scientist or a person who works as a staffer or a senior staffer and some sort of administration, i can't imagine what it takes to tell the cdc or anthony fauci or any of these agencies that their science had to be changed or science had to be down played or recommendations had to be altered to fit political considerations. who in the white house felt like they had the kind of standing to

pressure those doctors? >> we are talking at the most senior level at the white house. i don't want to get into naming names flat out. we are talking about people who make decisions for the president and vice president and advise them significantly. there were other entities within the white house such as omb and the regulatory affairs office internally who were also involved in some of these coordination on documents and things that would honestly enup with water down items. things that sign ticientists di agree with. they were not strongly worded or not as specific because they were trying to ensure that whatever message that was coming out of the white house was

either for voting block or some other concerns about we are in a hurry of opening up the country because we are in denial of what's happening around us and what the president is saying that we got to fit it to his message. that was a goal from it. my opinion but i saw it firsthand. >> in terms of what firsthand, we recently reported there was pressure put on the cdc water downing recommendat n recommendations to meat packing plants when they had the biggest outbreak in the country and tens of thousands of people got covid at those workplaces. scientists in the field called and told they had to rescind their report and reissued it without any languages that were told. that happened in april when you were on the task force and that

was when the task force meets everyd everyday. can you shed any light for us? >> i did see it. i saw this sort of interaction and back and forth within the task force meeting and there is other entities at play where there is a policy decided upon and that would suddenly change later. i remember this specific incident because i do know there is a discussion about whether you know cdc they're not a regulatory agency or recommendations, there were conversations about should the cdc have this strong language there. the truth is cdc has this in credib incredibly, knowledgeable

scientists. they do this in order to respond to something that contains it. if they are writing these reports and getting these types of recommendations, i can speak to the fact that those are probably strong guidelines that these factories and facilities need to adhere to and i have relatives that have actually worked in some of these facilities and to watch these kinds of guidance going away was mortifying to me. >> olivia troye, i have other things to ask you if you don't mind sticking with us. we'll be right back, stay with us. we'll be right back, stay with us powerful relief so you can restore and recover. theraflu hot beats cold.

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it's not a cure but with one small . . . . . . pill, biktarvy fights hiv . . . . . . to help you get to and stay undetectable. that's when the amount of virus is so low it cannot be measured by a lab test. serious side effects can occur, including kidney problems and kidney failure. rare, life-threatening side effects include a build-up of lactic acid and liver problems. do not take biktarvy if you take dofetilide or rifampin. tell your doctor about all the medicines and supplements you take, if you are pregnant or breastfeeding . . . . . . or if you have kidney or liver problems, including hepatitis. if you have hepatitis b, do not stop taking biktarvy without talking to your doctor. common side effects were diarrhea, nausea, and headache. if you're living with hiv . . . . . . keep loving who you are. and ask your doctor if biktarvy is right for you. back with us again is olivia troye, she served as homeland

security for the vice president, mike pence. miss troye, thank you again, i want to ask you some puzzling things that the president said. i had a hard time where he came up with these things. there was a moment where he tried to get disinfectant getting it inside the body and where he talks about a wash through that the virus is going to stop the spread. he's now talking about herd mentality which i think he meant herd immunity.

is that stuff being heard at the task force or people talk about at the white house but he misunderstands it and he does not get the substance and repeats it ignorantly? >> these doctors in the task force, we all heard dr. fauci when he briefs and dr. birx, they know what they are briefing and what they are telling him. they speak clearly. and i think -- i have no explanation for why these briefings and scientific evidence does not seem to play. i have been inside the white house and at times i have been

in the press briefing room right behind the door where he has said some of these outlandish things. i don't know if he thinks he's speaking to a comedic audience -- i don't know. at that point he told millions of americans some false lies. completely lying to the american people and some of these people listen to this. you know when you are the president of the united states, people are tuning in. they're going to believe you. and, this is part of the reason this pandemic response has been so bad -- how do you handle that when the number one person at

the top say these things. >> i know you talked about your respect for vice president mike pence. you have different feeling for the vice president than the president. have you pence object to or push back on anything that the president has said on coronavirus? >> you know, i'm not privy to private conversations that happened between the vice president and the president, obviously. i have certainly been in the room when the vice president be express the opinion of what he's heard on the task force or in meetings where the task force members are there. i have seen the vice president be very supportive of what the task force members, you know, have recommended and what they said. i do know he's gone to bat on a few items directly where i think it did make a difference, and i know that he -- my opinion of him comes from the fact that i saw him firsthand try to do the right thing, especially when it came to talking to governors on

both sides of the aisles when i know members of the president's team were willing to turn their backs on states that weren't necessarily republican or in line with their voting blocks. but i -- you know, the terms of the vice president, i think he was in a very, very challenging situation, like the rest of us. you know, it is an impossible situation when your boss has a certain mind set that you are not going to be able to change no matter what you do. and i just wish that the president would have listened to some of those cabinet members who i know were pushing back on simple things such as, you know, wear a mask. >> olivia troy, former senior homeland security aid to vice president mike pence. left the white house last month. ms. troy, i know it's been a big change in your life to come out and talk about these things in this way. thank you for being so brave.

thank you for leading on this. i appreciate it. >> thank you. that means a lot to me. this has been very hard. >> yeah. i'm sure it has been. your country needs you and you rose to the occasion. thank you. all right. we'll be right back. right back. instantly clear every day congestion with vicks sinex saline nasal mist. for drug free relief that works fast. vicks sinex. instantly clear everday congestion. women with metastatic webreast cancer,.... ...standing in the struggle. hustling through the hurt. asking for science, not sorrys. our time... ...for more time... ...has come. living longer is possible-

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you may remember headlines like these during the primary season about bad shortages of poll workers, which resulted in very long lines in several states. it also led to panicked headlines about that same dynamic potentially really screwing things up for the november election. now here's some nice news for once. "the washington post" reporting on a nationwide surge in young people offering to be poll workers this year. a lot of older poll workers sidelined obviously because of the covid risk. millennials are stepping up. over a half million people across the country have signed up for fall election duty in what amounts to a civic

responsibility surge. usa today reporting that cities like milwaukee, detroit, philadelphia, atlanta and houston aren't just confident they will be able to keep an expanded number of polling sites open, they're fueled in part by llness of people in their 20s and 30s to step up, and some cities say they have thousands more applications to be poll workers than they will need. nice news for once. a big mobilization of young people stepping up to help staff the polls at exactly the time older people that have always held those jobs are most at risk for covid for doing so. many parts of the country still need help, but some encouraging news when that kind of news is still in short supply. more ahead. more ahead

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it's going to be very busy over these next few days. we are expecting the president to announce his supreme court nominee tomorrow at 5:00 p.m. eastern. it is likely to be judge amy coney barrett. she's also been very outspoken in her public remarks that the affordable care act should be eliminated. she's excoriated chief justice john roberts for his earlier vote to keep it in place as law. again, that's tomorrow, that announcement from the president expected at 5:00 p.m. eastern. and then right after the weekend on tuesday, it is the first