do this job but what i do know that him and countless others will go to bed sleeping with breonna's face still hearing her say her name. i hope you wagner know the pain of hearing your child murdered days in a row. >> welcome to a.m. joy. i'm tiffany cross and it is so great to be back with you under these sad circumstances. we have a lot to get to including donald trump's expected pick of amy coney barrett to replace ruth bader ginsburg on the supreme court and we'll get to that later in the show, i promise but i really

wanted to start this show this week for the growing demand for justice for breonna taylor. demonstrators took to the streets of louisville again yesterday to protest a grand jury's decision to indict just one of the three officers involved in the killing of breonna with wanton endangerment for recklessly shooting into a neighbor's home, but not for killing breonna. now, before her name became a rallying cry and before police officers kicked in her door, breonna taylor or bre as she was noun was a proud emergency room technician. austin even donned her niece's emt jacket while reading the statement you just heard written by breonna's mother for whom the unimaginable trauma of losing her daughter was understandably too much to bear. breonna had dreams of becoming a nurse and buying a house and having a child with her

boyfriend, kenneth walker. they had already picked out a name and walker had purchased an engagement ring and planned to propose. breonna tweeted in november that 2020 would be her year. but on march 13th, the police arrived instead bringing all those dreams to a screeching halt. joining me now to walk us through this incredibly tragic situation is tamika mallory. cofounder of control freedom. charles booker who recently ran for senate and at ka scott and msnbc contributor dr. jason johnson. thank you guys so much for being with me. sadly, you were arrested last night, attica. i'm told as soon as you got out you went back to the street to join the protesters. something interesting i find about your arrest, you were charged with two misdemeanors of unlawful assembly and failure to

disperse, but you were also charged with first degree rioting which is a felony so this puts your seat at risk and your right to vote at risk. this case obviously means a lot to you that you would risk all those things by taking to the street. so tell us what happened last night. >> well, i was arrested on thursday night along with my teenage daughter in the district that i represent. i'm a state representative for kentucky house district 41 and we were trying to get to sanctuary at the first unitarian church which is in the district that i represent and it was 8:58. it wasn't even curfew and we were hurrying to try to get to the church and the police stopped us. they told us to turn around. as we tried to turn around they yelled circle them, circle them and surrounded us so we couldn't go anywhere. i'm so grateful that i was going

live on instagram because you hear us asking them, what do you want us to do? you're not letting us turn around, you're not letting us cross the street. we have two minutes to get to the church and they yelled at us to sit on the ground and began arresting us. >> so let me ask you, because there were 20 armed members of oath keepers who is this right wing militia group who were so concerned about protecting the property of louisville, were any of these armed right wing protesters arrested that you know about? >> not to my knowledge, no. and i wouldn't expect it because they seem to work closely with the louisville metro police department. >> well, there was a video of some of these members speaking with law enforcement in louisville and i should state that kentucky is an open carry state and they certainly exercise their right. i wonder how the protesters will be greeted if they exercise the same right but certainly we don't want to incite any

violence and i'm so happy that you're safe and well. with that i have to go to you tamika because when you spoke yesterday, i think you may have made some in the shrinking majority uncomfortable but for so many millions across this country you expressed the very thoughts they were thinking. tell me why this case has brought out so much passion and not just you, but the many thousands, tens of thousands of organizers across this country. tamika, are you with me? i think you're on mute so we're work out your audio problems and with that i'll -- can you hear me? >> yes, i can hear you. i'm sorry. >> go right ahead. that's all right. >> great. you know, i think that for most people and particularly for b m black women we understand that we could be breonna taylor any day because of the circumstances of what played out in this situation. we've listened over and over, i

know i have, i'm sure that others who are on today have listened to the story over and over and we're not stupid. we're able to understand very clearly that breonna taylor was killed in her home literally for no reason at all. and if we don't fight for her, one, because she is a black woman and she deserves the same type of energy that we give to the fight for our brothers who are also very deserving of it, but in this situation, you can't come up with anything that breonna taylor did to deserve what happened to her on march 13th. usually they give us some type of excuse, excuses that we still reject, but in this situation, they are literally fabricating a story to try to make up circumstances that just are not true, one, and two, they literally lied on a no knock warrant application to be able to gain access to her home and as a result of those lives she

died and no one is being held accountable for it. >> i want to bring you in, mr. booker. the no knock warrant itself there was a lot of cut and paste information on this no knock warrant. daniel cameron who's the attorney general in kentucky, his synopsis of what happened left me feeling with a head scratch because i really didn't understand everything that happened with the grand jury. tell us why it's so important that we get the transcript of what happened with the grand jury and i for one, i want to know the demographic makeup. the ethnic makeup of the grand jury. as we've seen in this country, those things matter. are we ever going to see this and why does it matter. >> yes, we will see it because we're all here declaring it and we're not going to stop fighting till we do. but the question is about transparency and that is central to justice and we want justice. we deserve justice.

our humanity demands justice and this attorney general who i knew before i don't know now has hided behind the wall, circulated behind his responsibility and kept an entire country, certainly this commonwealth in the dark and the family of breonna had no idea what the process was. so yes, we deserve to know exactly what did he present to the grand jury? what did they consider because it's very apparent they did not consider the life of breonna taylor. and that is absolutely disappointing and unacceptable. >> jason, i want to turn to you on this because you spoke to eloquently and passionately as well this week when you were on with our colleague and you talked about the humanity. if you have not read the september issue of vanity fair,

breonna taylor's mother was interviewed and you just hear her words of what happened that night. and the night that breonna taylor was shot and killed in her apartment, her mother did not know. breonna taylor's boyfriend called her and said they burst in the door, he thinks they shot breonna. she went to the hospital. she waited for hours. they said we don't have her. she went back to the scene of the crime. she got the run around. little did she know that breonna was still in the apartment. it's heart breaking. you talked about this, why this is so important to so many people across this country. what do you say about the landscape right now where our lives typically as people of color specifically as black people, specifically as black women where we feel routinely discarded, what do you say to the people to convince them, breonna taylor's mother loved her daughter the same way so many other people loved their

children? how do we get beyond this point? >> first thing i want to say is that for the people of kentucky there's a reason charles booker is here and the person who is running isn't. you need someone to represent you who cares about citizens in your district. i'm happy he's here even though he's not the nominee. this is why we're pained because the people who are supposed to represent us, whether that's in the case of daniel cameron, the nominee for that particular state aren't out there speaking on behalf of dead black bodies. that's why we're pained, that's why we're angry and disgusted. it's also very painful for us because quite frankly, you and i have talked about this, is that it's almost as if black people have to perform agony on the air, on radio and in writing in order to get the rest of america to recognize our humanity. it shouldn't require one of the most brilliant writers of the century to interview her mother in order for us to realize this 26-year-old woman got shot in her house for doing nothing.

it shouldn't require us to hold back tears on air saying hey, she was sitting in her home. it doesn't matter who she dated and none of these cops are being held responsible. that's why we're so angered. i have to say this. i'm not a lawyer, i don't play one on tv but to the degree that people are jumping up and down and trying to defend this behavior, this was not a sober objective application of the law because if it was why are so many racists excites excited ab? the reason that so my by gots can get excited about it we know that daniel cameron that you can kill black people whenever you want under any circumstances and the law whether it is being delivered by a white person or a black person will defend you. that's why we're angry. that's why we're disgusted. that's why tamika's speech was so powerful. that's why mr. booker here is so important because we have to

talk about our humanity. if not to white people who don't want to listen, to black who fear it's going to be taken away for the audacity to want to live and breathe every day. >> i'll kick it back to you, mr. booker. amy is a democratic nominee running for senate in kentucky. has she spoken out about the case at all? has she made any demands of the attorney general, the republican attorney general in kentucky? do you know? >> well, although i haven't heard it i also have to admit i'm not listening and expecting what anyone else is talking about on this issue because i'm focused about the fight for justice and i'm grieving with ms. palmer and the entire commonwealth and i'm honored to be here with representative scott who is the lead sponsor for breonna's law and i'm proud to be a cosponsor with her. we're doing the work so anyone else that is pursuing leadership

needs to be accountable to that too and i hope that she does. but we're here today because we know that breonna's name is not going to be put on a shelf, her humanity is not going to be thrown away and we're going to continue to fighting for our commonwealth and our country. >> we did not invite amy mcgrath on today. i wish we could but we'll invite her to join us tomorrow because i'd love to hear her thoughts on this as this is a huge important issue and i do want to acknowledge that you are the head of breonna's law. tamika, i want to go back to you really quickly. what does justice look like for you and your fellow activists on the ground there? what do you want to see happen from this point? >> i think one, mayor fisher needs to fire these officers. he still has the power to fire the officers responsible for breonna taylor's murder. i know that there is an

investigation. actually there are six officers who are being investigated for what happened that night and we specifically and i'm not speaking on behalf of the family, have zeroed in on joshua jam james, the officer who signed the -- or excuse me, wrote the no knock warrant application that the judge signed. so that is one piece. and i also think that you know, as has been said with representative scott and booker, breonna taylor's family has been very, very clear that they want to ensure that whatever we do here, it helps to impact our communities, how they're being policed across the country and so my organization until freedom will be joining these great leaders to travel the state of kentucky to get breonna's law passed. >> i appreciate that. and i just want to punctuate the point if you saw the attorney

general of kentucky's press conference, if you left confused so many people did as well and i encourage you to read -- there was a great piece in the "washington post" this week which disspell some of the falsehoods that are out there floating around and it's so tragic that here we are again trying to defend and define our humanity. i know there's a lot happening in the nation's capital and a lot happening with the supreme court but it was very important for me to have this conversation to kick off the show and i appreciate you all joining me and brining it to the viewers. >> next up, the impeached loser of the 2016 popular vote will name his third supreme court pick later today. some thoughts about that next so you don't want to miss it. stay tuned. to miss it. stay tuned

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i think in your case,

professor, when you read your speeches the conclusion one draws is that the dogma lives loudly within you. and that's of concern when you come to big issues that large numbers of people have fought for for years. >> okay. nbc news has learned that later today, trump plans to announce 7th circuit court of appeals amy coney barrett as his pick to replace ruth bader ginsburg on the supreme court and that viral clip you just saw, senator fine stein was referring to judge barrett's catholic face. her questioning has become a rallying cry for religious conservatives who saw it as an attack on people of faith.

but let's be honest, certain people of faith. but my next guest says it's not her religious views that should have us worried about the future of the court. ell ellie, i am so grateful for you being here with me to break this down because i don't think a lot of people understand the process so if you'll bear with me, i just want to explain to people how this process works. the president nominates someone and that then goes to the senate judiciary committee. what's interesting about this this year, who sits on the senate judiciary committee, biden's running mate, kamala harris from california. this is going to set up a very interesting confirmation process should this move forward and we assume that it will at this point. so the committee debates the nominee and they send a recommendation to the entire senate, the republican controlled senate, let me mind you and then the senate debates the nominee. so we have quite the quagmire

here. what are we looking for? how can democrats stop this? i looked up the rule for the judiciary committee. i looked up the rule for the general senate. is there anything they can do to stop this? i have come up empty handed but you may have some stops on what they can do to stop this. so the floor is yours, sir. >> so if you want to start with process, tiffany, no there isn't a way to stop this. there isn't a judicial loophole. confirmation hearings don't matter and the reason why i know that is because a couple of years ago i saw the republicans push through an alleged attempted rapist without an investigation. i saw that happen in my lifetime and if that doesn't stop the supreme court justice then nothing stops a supreme court justice. i don't think the democrats should play ball. i don't think they should show up at the confirmation hearing. if you remember the kavanaugh hearings the republicans used a

female assistant to question kavanaugh when they were -- before they decided that screaming about him was the best idea. i think that's what the democrats should do. i think the democrats should send judge pam harland to do all their questions at the hearings while the democrats hold rallies on capitol hill and try to understand how dangerous and bad this judicial pick is and how illegitimate it is for trump to be pushing through any nominee at this moment. >> let me just say judge brett kavanaugh was never charged or convicted of rape but i encourage people toll form your own opinion there t. but i want to get to amy coney barrett. i have talked to people on the bench, i've asked people who know her about her and a lot of people say she's very charming and very disarming and we saw some of that in her first confirmation hearing but to the folks who have had their rights

infringed upon we know how to recognize a wolf in sheep's clothing. tell us why should we be concerned about this nominee? >> yes, look, diane fine stein's comment that has gone viral that has made amy coney barrett a star was an unforced error. because the problem is not that amy coney barrett is particularly catholic, the problem is that she's a hypocrite. i would -- i'm catholic. i could live with the catholic judge. i could live with a judge who devoutly applied their faith to issues of the law. but it is not catholic, it is not devout to turn away your neighbor who is need of assistance as amy coney barrett did in 2020 when she was the lone judge to uphold the public charge rule which denied green cards to people who might need public assistance. it is not devoutly christian or catholic to praise the

deliberate indifference of human life which she did in 2018 when she was the lone judge to tell a group of prisoners they had no 8th amendment protections when prison guards shot loaded guns into a crowded cafeteria. it is not devoutly catholic to take away people's health care. it is not devoutly catholic to apply the death penalty which amy coney barrett has written that a good catholic judge should recuse themselves from situations implying the death penalty but she has not written and here's the elephant in the room, she has not written that a good catholic judge should recuse themselves on issues involving abortion or a women's right to choose. so what we're left with is a hypocrite who will insert her judicial opinion between a woman and a woman's doctor but will not insert her opinion between the prisoner and the executioner

on the chopping block. that is something i cannot deal with. >> you wrote very detailed this in the nation. i read your piece this morning. it got me all fired up to be prepared to have this conversation. quickly before you go, i want to say in your piece you point out some things that she has said and i want to remind people when justice said she would hope that that a wise latina woman would reach a better conclusion than a white male who hasn't lived that life the right went crazy but we have seen so such outrage for this potential nominee talking about her catholic belief. i wonder why that might be. i know you have a lot more to say but we are out of time. i often say trying to cover everything happening during the trump administration is like trying to kocatch confetti. i'm trying to catch confetti otherwise i would keep you around. thank you for your words and for the conversation this morning. we will see you soon.

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between now and election day my colleague is traveling the country every weekend hitting critical swing states and talking to voters on the ground. he might even be talking to you. tell us where are you off to next? >> i'm headed to pueblo, colorado, this afternoon, a county that went ever sonar rowly for hillary clinton in 2016. i'm going to talk to voters, who they're voting for, why they're voting for them to help us get smarter ability the issues that are going to help decide this election. interviewed lined up with colorado secretary of state who's been at the forefront of the fight for a safe and fair election and colorado congressman among many others i'm talking to. that's tomorrow morning. i'll be live from pueblo, colorado, with a very special

version of velshi across america 2020. i hope to see you there, tiff. >> i will definite will be there. be sure to tune in tomorrow morning at 8:00 a.m. eastern for velshi across america live from colorado. up next, sybrina fulton joins me live. stay with us. n joins me live. stay with us uh, honey? isn't that the dog's towel? hey, me towel su towel. there's more gain scent plus oxi boost and febreze odor remover in every fling. gain. seriously good scent it's official: national coffee day

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child is in need and help and you're not able to give them. i hope you never hear the sounds of hearing someone cry and beg for your child to receive help and she never receives help. those cries was ignored. i hope you never know the pain of your child being murdered 191 days in a row. >> for those of us who believe that black lives matter which i hope is everybody, the decision not to charge any police officer with the killing of breonna taylor was as devastating as it was quite frankly unsurprising. breonna's mother tamika palmer joins an already too long list of moms who have lost their children to violence and a racist justice system. these mothers of the movement are no strangers to working through their overwhelming grief to finding hope even when

justice is with held. joining me now is a founding mother trayvon martin's mom, sybrina fulton. she's going to join usfulton, ie you with me. i want to make sure you're with us. >> good morning, yes. i'm with you 100%. >> i'm so happy to have you with me this morning. you know first i have to say you know i love you so much and i want to just take a moment of personal privilege and say, so many people meet you and they're so excited to talk to you and hug you and kind of lay their grief at your feet and i know something that you said to me when i was so excited to meet you was like nope, no tears today because there's work to be done. tell us in this landscape where we are still seeing the same tragedy play out over again and again and again, we're still crying our lives matter, what needs to be done that can change

the narrative in this country around black life? >> i want us to be angry. i want us to be upset about what happened but i want us to propel us to do some kind of action, to get more involved, to participate more. maybe participate more with rallies, write letters, run for office. those are the things that we need to do when we get angry and last but not least, but more importantly, we need to make sure we get out and vote because it's so important. i don't have to tell you about our ancestors that were beaten, that were arrested, just to get the right to vote. i don't have to tell you about that because we are living in a time right now where we can actually see a crisis happening right in front of us. and so i don't have to tell you what our ancestors went through. we all know what they did. but we're going through a tough time right now and when we get angry we need to do something

about that anger and it doesn't need to be destructive. we need to do something where we can see the results of what we're doing and like i said, run for office, join a nonprofit organization, make sure we get out and vote. we need to do those things. we need to change these laws that allow police officers or allow anyone else to disrespect our own home. i mean, i was so disappointed by the decision that was made by the grand jury because you know, i can -- you can't run down the street. you can't walk down the street. you can't play your radio too loud, you can't sell cigarettes, you can't do anything and now we're not even safe in our own homes. >> it's -- baffles the mind. i made the point the other day, imagine declaring that your own life matters is being viewed as a political statement. it's beyond the imagination as

we watch what's happening. i really appreciate your point about running for office. you ran for office in miami and i had the chance to visit with you there at the trayvon martin foundation building and it's really impressive what you've been able to do. so as you encourage activism to change what should be made right in this country, i want to play for you the republican attorney general of kentucky, daniel cameron who sounds like he may disagree with this level of activism. >> there will be celebrities, influencers and activists who having never lived in kentucky will try to tell us how to feel, suggesting they understand the facts of this case and that they know our community and the commonwealth better than we do. but they don't. let's not give in to their attempts to influence our thinking or capture our emotions. >> ms. fulton, you of all people have earned the right to speak

to the protesters not only on the ground in louisville but all across this country. what is something you'd like to say to people who have engage in letter writing campaigns, who have made their voices heard? what piece of hope can you offer them today? >> i want to say first of all, daniel cameron does not speak to black lives matter. he does not speak on behalf of afterry condition american people or people of color. he's talking to a specific group, people who are privileged and have no concern about sleep ng their beds and have no concern about being safe in their own homes. he's not talking about that group of people. he's not talking to that group of people. you don't have to live in kentucky to know that we have a right as human beings not to be shot and killed by the police. and nobody's held accountable. you don't have to live in kentucky. can somebody please tell him that? it's about human rights it's

just about being a human being. is he not a human being and does he not understand that you should feel safe in your own home? and to -- to the protesters, to the people that are rallying and to the people that are supporting breonna taylor's family especially her mom tamika palmer i want to say, don't give up. we've got to keep pushing on. we've got to keep moving on. we have to be encouraged. we got to continue to support one another and we've got to give god the glory. god still has a hand in this and a lot of people don't understand that. he's still in control. he's still sits high and looks low and we can't give up. we're losing too many lives to give up. we've got to keep pushing and keep that fire hot. >> may i ask you, have you been in touch with breonna taylor's mother? >> absolutely. i had an opportunity last month in august to go to kentucky to stand with breonna taylor's mom and her family.

i attended a press conference and also a rally that they did there. so yes, i'm in touch. we also do zoom calls, of course, and we talk about senseless gun violence, we talk about, you know, everything that's going on from police brutality to, you know, black lives matter and so, yes, i have met her. i'm connected with her and i just want to tell her on a personal level and i have, to just keep moving. just keep lifting up and listening to people who support you. there are a lot of negative people out there. you can't worry about the negative people because they don't support you. >> i think we all saw firsthand your process through the most unimaginable tragedy anyone could imagine with the documentary that you did with sean carter, aka jay z.

i can't thank you enough for taking time out of your saturday morning to talk with us today but also just showing up every single time something like this happens which is obviously far too frequently and giving us so much hope and inspiration and strength. you are an inspiration to watch so i thank you so much, ms. fulton, for joining us today. i'm sorry we couldn't see you because of technical difficulties but we'll definitely have you back. more a.m. joy after the break. uk more a.m. joy after the break.

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will you commit to making sure there is a peaceful transferral of power after the election? >> we'll have to see what happens. you know i've been complaining

very strongly about the ballots. >> i know people out there say oh, trump is crazy. he says this, he says that. don't take him seriously. take him seriously! >> you are not in north korea. you are not in turkey. you are not in russia, mr. president. by the way, you are not in saudi arabia. you are in the united states of america. it is a democracy. >> welcome back to "am joy." i'm tiffany cross. so, donald trump's refusal to commit to a peaceful transfer of power is tainting everything he does, and, quite frankly, everything i do, including his nomination of a supreme court announcement. in a few hours he is expected to nominate judge amy coney barrett for the supreme court seat left vacant by the death of justice ruth bader ginsburg. many key issues affecting

millions of americans just like you. donald trump made it clear that the rush to fill the court vacancy is, of course, all about him, and ensuring that he gets to stay in the oval office regardless of the will of the voters. >> i think this will end up in the supreme court. and i think it's very important that we have nine justices. this scam that the democrats are pulling -- it's a scam. this scam will be before the united states supreme court and i think having a 4-4 situation is not a good situation. >> a scam, otherwise known as elections. according to "the new york times," the pentagon is even concerned that trump could use the military to put down any protests that erupt over a disputed election. yet wiin an exclusive interview with stephanie ruhle, joe biden says he's confident that the will of the voters will prevail. >> the people of this country will be heard november 3rd.

every vote will be heard. they'll not be stopped. all the outrageous attacks on voting, we'll have an election in this country, as we always have had. and he'll leave. >> will he, though? i mean, it's not a stretch of the imagination to believe that trump won't go. he has always been very clear about what he would do. so, we can't bane shock, ignorance or surprise when he does the very thing that he said he would. in an interview last year, he hinted that his followers could potentially turn violent if provoked. trump told breitbart, and i quote, i have the support of the police, the support of the military, the support of bikers for trump. i have tough people. but they don't play it tough until they go to a certain point, and then it would be very bad, very bad. hello? you don't even need to read between the lines for that one. although it seems unfathomable,

violence around the election actually would not be something new for america. one of my guests writes in "the new yorker," the united states is considered one of the most stable democracies in the world, but it has a long, mostly forgotten history of election-related violence. so, i'm so happy to have this panel to talk me through all this. i've been having nightmares about it. dr. jason johnson and aaron haynes, jeloni cobb, and constitutional advocacy and protection, josh i'm so glad to have you here. i have to go to you first on this. you've spoken out about this very issue. you said that we actually should not be as concerned about trump refusing to acknowledge a peaceful transition of power but more concerned about his ability to undermine the confidence in

the public about the election itself. explain that to me. >> look, i think there's reason to worry here, but then we need to get particular about what to worry about. go back to 2016. donald trump suffered the only real political setback on his short career when he lost the iowa caucus to ted cruz. and he claimed within 24 hours, on twitter, that cruz had stolen the caucus somehow. but nobody listened. it didn't matter. that's why it's forgotten, because people didn't listen. the real question at this point in 2020 isn't what donald trump saying, because he's saying outrageous, appalling things that no major candidate has said in this country. the question is, will people listen? that's where all of us can raise our voices to say those who play a part in counting votes, they need to play their role regardless of what donald trump is saying.

>> i'm going to stick with you on this, josh, because i am still very concerned. if donald trump says i'm not leaving. i'm not going to go, what are the steps specifically, what protocols do we have as a country to say, oh, no, have you to go. >> election day is november 3. though this year, we are wise not to expect results that night, because there are going to be a lot of mail-in ballots and it may take time to count them. the next major date is december 8th, safe harbor set by law. if they're resolved by that date, congress has pledged to respect them. that's a lot of times to work things out, including through litigation, if necessary, but it's still peaceful. and donald trump wants you to doubt the legitimacy of that, but he plays no role in it. judges decide. we go from that date to eventually a meeting of a joint

session of congress where congress certifies the election results and, again, donald trump doesn't get to say what they certify. >> okay. i'll get to the rest of the panel, josh. i've got to ask you, you're saying we depend on the court system. how many in the court system are trump judges? he has already applied the court with 200 judges, already tilting the supreme court in his favor. the judiciary is a co-equal branch of government that's now been tainted. you have 600 judges total, over 200 by trump. consider all the other conservative justices appointed by other presidents. can we rely on the courts to save us from a wanna-be dictator? >> his legal arguments to the extent they even look like legal arguments are terrible. he should lose 8-0, 9-0 at the supreme court on them. the things he's saying, the idea that ballots shouldn't be counted at election day or

mail-in ballots shouldn't be counted at all, that should be a loser in front of any judge appointed by any president of any political party. this president is unlike others in his refusal to accept fundamental democratic norms and it's appalling. at the same time we have to realize he's trying to play mind games and he's maybe okay at th that, but he's a really lousy lawyer. >> i google stalk you, i'm going to twitter stalk you. if i drunk text you at 2:00 a.m., please understand these are times i'm super concerned about. jeloni cobb, i'm going to turn to you. you detail that there has been violence sparked around elections. please, if you can, quickly tell our viewers what happened and how that might play out again come this november. >> sure. so one of the things that we don't talk about in the general

sense is the tradition of political violence in this country. i say that in a general sense because with african-americans, our entire relationship to the ballot, to franchise, has been mediated by violence. that's the clear precedent. we don't know how much of this is extended beyond that. and so in the piece i talk about conflicts between wigs and democrats in philadelphia, which culminated in ballot places being burned down or the american party, better known as the no-nothings who instigated violence to the extent entire communities were not able to vote. this was to disenfranchise immigrant communities. people bringing guns to the polling places. we don't really have a

conversation about that. and the other thing, just to quickly add on to the previous conversation, i don't think the threat is so much trump saying that he won't go as a kind of solitary exercise in bratty behavior, like a 3-year-old stomping his foot and refusing to eat his vegetables. i think the bigger issue is throwing up so much disarray and so much chaos that people don't know, that the public doesn't know who actually won the election. and then the real concern is that whether or not the state legislators will do what they're supposed to do and see the electors who favor the candidate who has the highest numerical tally of votes in the state, or if the cloud of disarray gives them cover to say, well, we believe that these votes are

tainted, so we're going to seat electors that are favorable to donald trump. that is a very real possibility. we don't know what's going to happen. the last thing i'll say about this is at every single turn, we have been hearing this for four years, that the institutions are going to rein in donald trump. every single one of them has failed, or at best had a checkered record, in terms of reining him in. impeachment failed, which is supposed to be the grand kind of nuclear card of reining in a president who was not abiding by the law. supposed to prevent a president from turning into a dictator will actually operate as they should in the coming election. >> jelani, you are preaching to

the choir. i want to bring you in here, aaron. you covered the campaign, you're talking closely to the candidates, specifically kamala harris. how concerned do you think that the campaign should be about these threats that donald trump is making? >> well, the campaign is saying that they are quite concerned and they've talked about, you know, a huge voter protection army that they plan on standing up in the 38 days or so that we have between now and, as joshua said, the day that the ballots are being counted. we do not want people to think that election day is the day we're going to know, necessarily who the next president of the united states is. tiffany, i hear the alarm and anxiety in your voice. and i will just tell you that the pandemic can be very clarifying, as explanatory. stick with me a minute or two on this, if you will. the american people are looking for whoever the next president is to instill confidence in

them, right, not fear. the election is not going to be over when president donald trump says, just like the coronavirus is not over just because he wants it to go away. the idea that this was supposed to be the same president who didn't want to scare people, right, with the notion that the coronavirus was a serious threat, but somehow telling people, you know, they should be alarmed about the integrity of our elections is okay as long as it's for his kind of political purposes. but what we know is that treating mail-in balloting as something that's dangerous, something like a virus, that's really irresponsible. the threat here is voter suppression. the threat here is how people are going to be able to vote safely in the middle of this pandemic. so, political leaders, and we're seeing a lot of them at state and local level, that are doing exactly what we should expect them to do, regardless of party,

which is to be telling voters how they can protect themselves about those threats, actual threats to the health of our democracy with 38 days to go. >> you hear the anxiety in my voice and you read the anxiety in the texts that i send you. i want to bring in jason here. jason, you -- trump has said that he will only lose if they cheat. you are the resident cynic. you know this. you are in good company today, my friend. as the astute political scientist that you are, what's your prediction come this november when we're already seeing the mayhem play out? >> so i want to make it clear, tiffany. i think this is really important we're focusing on this and making it clear. we're not going to know on election night. the president of the united states is cheating. let's talk about the post office. they are still dismantling post office processing centers. this is very important, very, very key.

also understand -- i don't think this can be stated enough. donald trump already knows he's going to lose. that's why he's cheating. you don't cheat if you think you're going to win. if this election -- i make this very clear when i get my students to register to vote, whenever i talk about these issues. if it comes down to the courts, joe biden is losing, period. i don't trust the supreme court. we saw where you had a court rule that ballots that came in even if they were postmarked properly that came in after the election wouldn't be count. your job is to go out and vote and allow joe biden to win that even the supreme court doesn't want to appear that they are overturning popular will. that is the only way to have success. if it's on the margins, if it's on the line, they will be able to cover themselves in the same chaos that donald trump is trying to foster. i don't think we're going to know election night. i do suspect there will be violence. as jelani mentions in his article, election violence never ended in this country.

ask natasha brown. ask the new georgia project. black people who are going down today to register people to vote are met with police officers with guns, have the backs of their buses shot off. people are shocked now because now white people may actually be the victims. >> you said ask natasha brown, i will do just that. she will join us later in the show i was hoping that this panel would give me some kind of hope. you have all failed me because i have even more anxiety after this panel. expect to get texts from me later, probably 3:00 a.m. in the morning. but thank you all for trying to walk our viewers through the process and dissecting what we, quite frankly, should be worrying about. errin will be back with us. dr. jason johnson, jelani cobb, get back to those twins. i know you were busy with them this morning and joshua getzler who i'm going to twitter stalk.

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tuesday is a big debate, first debate between the two of them, joe biden and donald trump. you first suggested you didn't think biden should debate. do you still feel that way? >> yes, i do. not that i don't think he will be excellent, i just think that the president has no fidelity to factor truth and no fidelity to the constitution of the united states. he and his henchmen, with their comments are a danger to our democracy. so i don't want to give him -- why bother? >> joe biden certainly has his work cut out for him on tuesday night. with all due respect to speaker pelosi, i think the more accurate question is, will the debate even matter? mainstream media loves to focus

on this mysterious swing voter but in an election with the stakes this high and after trump's calamitous years in office, are there any swing voters out there? we're joined by my friend for the lincoln project and contributor to nbc news think tank. errin, i want to start with you on this. i have to say, a lot of, with all due respect, antequated voices, and look i've been in that world for 20 years, but i have multiple other touchpoints in the fly-over states with my family, my friends. and they're not actually treating this like political super bowl. they're not looking like let me watch the debate to see how i'm going to vote. most people have already made up their minds. as someone who has been on the campaign trail, covered this election, how much do you think this debate will matter this tuesday?

>> well, you know, tiffany, you make such a good point about the myth of the undecided voter, both joe biden and donald trump are people who have been in public life for the better part of half a century. there are not many people in this country, let alone voters, who do not know who either of these two, you know, men in their 70s are at this point. so, really, we're talking about undecided voters, the thing that they are undecided about is whether or not they're going to participate in this election. and so while i think that is an open question, the question of turnout, right, i don't know, you know, how much, you know, we're still trying to persuade, you know, people in terms of the campaigns of whom to vote for. but, yeah, to your point, i think that, you know, these debates are competing in a very chaotic atmosphere for a lot of americans right now. what i mean by that, i don't know how many people have the bandwidth, really, for a nine-minute -- 90-minute

conversation. they could be managing children, checking in on loved ones who may have coronavirus or they could be, you know, to be honest, trying to catch game seven of the heat/celtic series. tiffany, i know you don't know anything about that. you're not really a sports fan here. but that is the reality for a lot of folks, they're juggling a lot of priorities right now and a 90-minute debate may or may not be on the agenda for them. although they may care and be interested in this election. >> i would like to correct the record and say i did watch one of the games this week when the lakers played the nuggets. thank you very much, errin. but yes, i take your point. the debates are competing with contents out there. you're streaming shows, binge watching tv. for people who need to hear from these candidates, i wonder what role they play. curt, that's why i bring you in. you're with the lincoln project, i have to say the beast between trump and the lincoln project is

reminiscent of jay-z and nas. trump is neither jay-z nor nas. he's just getting plastered every turn by the ads you guys put out, by the things you say. so, because you're really trying to appeal to those republicans who have always voted republican, and you're trying to appeal to them to vote for a democratic ticket, how important do you think these debates are, concerning that base? >> tiffany, what we have from a lincoln project perspective is an opportunity with this debate to get the best content we're going to have at our disposal all year to help our messaging in the final stretch of the campaign. we've often seen the most effective case against donald trump is using his own words. and on tuesday night, a large audience of the american people will have an opportunity to see the vast difference between a president who lies, who is incapable of telling the truth, incapable of demonstrating

empathy, incapable of accepting responsibility for more than 200,000 americans dead. contrast that with an honorable man like joe biden, a man who tells the truth, is sincere, authentic, actually gives a damn about people. i think that contrast will be powerful. i'm hoping what we see tuesday night is the prosecution of donald trump we were robbed of earlier this year during the impeachment proceedings. we'll finally have an opportunity of donald trump stepping outside of his comfort zone of sean hannity, judge jenine and fox & friends. and i hope that joe biden takes the time and the opportunity to hold his feet to the fire, and every time you hear words like pro-life, sanctity of life, i hope joe biden says, no, you killed 200,000 americans and don't give a damn. let's get to the truth of the

matter. i think it will last us the next 39 days. >> i want to talk about some of that content. as we talk about the debates, perhaps they'll have an influence on the down ballot. i wish we had the license to nas' ether. i want to play an ad that the lincoln project put together that is laser focused on lindsey graham. ♪ in the arms of the angels fly away from here ♪ ♪ from this dark cold hotel room ♪ ♪ and the endlessness that you fear ♪ ♪ you are brought from the wreckage of your silent revelry ♪ >> for just pennies a day, you

can save lindsey graham's senate race. >> help me. they're killing me, money-wise. help me. >> call right now and you'll be given this picture of lindsey graham enjoying a hot dog. >> i'm being killed financially. >> lindsey graham needs you. >> five or ten bucks from half your audience would fill in the gap. >> only you can stop the suffering. please call. ♪ vultures and thieves >> i think the only person who enjoyed that ad more than me is the democratic senate candidate, jamie harrison in south carolina. kurt, you guys are ethering this party every single day, ether, the thing that makes your soul burn slow. i have to leave it there. thank you so much, errin haines. you look gorgeous in that pink,

by the way. and kurt bardella, you look gorgeous in your suit as well. >> thank you. and go lakers. >> okay, i'll go lakers. i'll watch the game tonight and put us in a group chat so we can text all about it. thank you, guys, for joining me. and, please, msnbc will have complete coverage of the first presidential debate, which is coming up this tuesday. so be sure to join brian williams, rachel maddow, my bff, joy reid, and nicolle wallace at 8:00 p.m. eastern right here on msnbc. up next, florida man. florida, florida, florida. don't go away. florida, florida, florida. don't go away. technology makes it brilliant. the visionary lexus nx. lease the 2020 nx 300 for $339 a month for 36 months. experience amazing at your lexus dealer.

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there will not be limitations from the state of florida. the order i'm signing today will guarantee restaurants operate, will not allow closures. they can operate at a minimum of 50%, regardless of local rule. >> well, you heard it here first. florida man ron desantis is giving restaurants and businesses the green light, even though his state currently ranks third in the nation for the most

confirmed covid cases. yes, third in the nation. oh, and come november, the millions of americans recovering from covid-19 could be kicked off their health insurance if the supreme court manages to overturn the aca and its protections for pre-existing conditions. this is why this supreme court pick is so important. meanwhile, as donald trump continues to undermine our top scientists, the majority of americans say they would not take or they're not sure that they would take a government-approved vaccine. joining me now to try to make sense of all of this is infectious disease physician, dr. badalia and dr. bernard ashby. dr. badalia, i want to start with you. i was with friends earlier this week, socially distanced and responsibly on their deck. we were saying what happens when the fall comes, because there are so many people who will be confined to their homes.

we're human beings. we're not designed to be by ourselves. the flu is coming. what does the fall look like from a health perspective, given covid-19, flu season and people potentially being forced to go back inside in what do you predict? >> yeah. i think we're already seeing that, tiffany, when you look at our test positivity as a country, we're back up above 5% after having a pretty good month. as of yesterday we're back above 50,000 cases. we were at 55,000 cases yesterday. what we're predicting, unfortunately, is as you said, it's not just people moving indoors but there's this pandemic fatigue. it's something we're all battling with. then the risk of respirator viruses are traveling at the same time. a study this week showed we were worried about what a co-infection with covid and the flu looks like. if you get both of them, your

chances of dying are twice as high as if you only got covid. we're expecting cases to go up. that's going to put pressure on our health care system. and that's not to say that additions of new cases we expect potentially from school openings, university openings, which i hope stabilize, but currently those community, counties where colleges seem to be contributing to the larger increases across the country. >> dr. ashby, i want to turn to you. as you saw, your governor, florida man ron desantis is opening up everything. florida is open for business. one thing that he said that really struck me is we're going to have a full super bowl. that means people outside of florida could potentially travel to florida, get on planes, travel back and continue to spread the virus all across this country. if people with intellectual curiosity are listening and curious about how they might help save humanity and might stop a global pandemic, what

piece of advice would you offer them? >> thanks, tiffany, for having me. don't listen to desantis. don't listen to trump. they canceled the olympics earlier this year, right? i still think we're in the misinformation olympics and this desantis is listening to everything trump is telling him and making bad decisions that are putting people's lives at risk, literally. he's mandating we reopen the economy, he said that mostly yesterday. he's demanding bars and restaurants not be closed again. he's mandating schools reopen. if you were trying to cause an outbreak, everything he's doing is perfectly in line with that. he's literally trying to cause an outbreak for no good reason other than the fact that he doesn't fully understand. mandating things like our testing capacity, which is trash, mandating we take measures, mandating that we pay for the health care and funeral

expenses that are definitely going to occur, he's doing none of that. he's telling us to go back to life as normal without him doing his job. he's creating this false dichotomy, either open this economy or not. if he did his job, this economy would be open but he's not. i don't want to say it but i'm pissed off, as you can see. he has definitely taken the wrong decisions. we're watching incompetence in real time. >> if i could recruit you to get out that have state and come live in my hood, i would do it. we need such a voice of reason. i want to turn to an exchange we saw in the senate earlier this week between dr. fauci and senator rand paul from knz, who i should mention is also a doctor as well. >> developed enough community immunity that they're no longer having the pandemic because they have enough immunity in new york city to stop it? >> i challenge that, senator.

>> i'm afraid we're -- >> please, sir, i would like to be able to do this. this happens with senator rand all the time. you are not listening to what the director of the cdc said, that in new york, it's about 22%. if you believe 22% is herd immunity, i believe you're alone in that. >> okay. so, let me be the angry translator for dr. fauci and say, he was saying to rand paul, stay in your lane, slim, because you don't know what you're talking about. i want to ask you, dr. bhadelia, i talk to friends about bubbling and we all talk about herd immu immunity. what's your take, not just for new york city, but people who say open it all up, let's be around each other and track this herd immunity. what's your take on that? is that a realistic solution as we continue to face covid-19? >> yeah. tiffany, i feel dr. fauci's pain. we're in the ninth month of this

pandemic. have we not seen the sad story play out over and over again every time we take down those measures completely, every time we try to go back to a life of normalcy, we start to see cases go up, which are followed by hospitalizations and deaths. herd immunity, the concept is that enough people have immunity against the disease so those who don't yet have the disease are protected because there's no transmission going on, right? we're nowhere near that level. when we let everything open, the worry is exactly what we had done. it would be like restarting in march, where we see tons of cases and we have no sense where that trend is going. it would be unrealistic because it would overwhelm the health care systems and would do economically to us what it has already done. the u.s. is the hardest-hit high-income country. when you look at our unemployment rate, the two are linked, right? if you can't manage the virus, you won't be able to restart the economy.

our unemployment rates are five times higher versus other high-income countries at the end of july. not only from a health care system perspective, individual perspective and it's not helpful for our economy, if that's what the aim is. >> you've queued me right up for my final question to dr. ashby. the lowest-income americans are hit hardest. bread lines are getting longer in my neighborhood, when i venture out of my neighborhood, it's devastating when we see what happens. close us out, if you will, on a piece of advice that you could offer to people as we enter a colder season, as people go back inside. what can people do to make sure they keep themselves and their families safe from this global pandemic that's devastating every part of our life? >> tiffany, you could queue up the ether music for fauci.

he did that rightly so because again we are witnessing incompetence at the highest level and people are dying as a result of it. and so what i would advise people is to resort to village mentality. basically you have to protect yourself and protect your family and protect your community. therefore, we all know what the mitigation steps that are necessary. wear your mask. socially distance. if you're inside, open the windows. let it ventilate. protect the most vulnerable, the sickly, grandmothers, folks with chronic medical illnesses that have been largely forgotten. unfortunately, those folks will bear the bront brunt of this pandemic. we need to make a special effort to folks in our community that are most in need. >> well, when i see either one of you on my tv screen, i stop and listen. thank you both brilliant doct doctors, dr. bhadeli and one of my favorites, dr. bernard ashby. thank you for joining us and trying to talk us through all of this madness.

next up, wnba legend and gold medal winner lisa leslie tells us how she plans to rock the vote and we may talk sports. stay tuned. to rock the vote and we may talk sports. stay tuned ♪ ♪ it's official: national coffee day is now national dunkin' day! celebrate with a free medium hot or iced coffee with any purchase on september 29th. with an♪ purhere? nah. ♪ here? nope. ♪ here. ♪ when the middle of nowhere... is somewhere.

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tonight, i'll be eating a veggie cheeseburger on ciabatta, no tomatoes.. [hard a] tonight... i'll be eating four cheese tortellini with extra tomatoes. [full emphasis on the soft a] so its come to this? [doorbell chimes] thank you. [doorbell chimes] bravo. careful, hamill. daddy's not here to save you. oh i am my daddy. wait, what? what are you talking about?

this really might be the most important election ever, because a lot of people are banking on democracy. a lot of people are banking on not the divided states of america. we're counting on the united states of america. we're counting for people to have their voices heard november 3rd. >> pro ballers have been the mo most. wearing jerseys bearing breonna taylor's name. to make change on election day, teaming up with rock the vote in a new initiative called hoopers vote. joining me now is lisa leslie,

basketball hall of famer, olympic gold medalist and hoopers vote ambassador. lisa leslie, i'm honored to be in the presence of royalty. the executive producer of this show said lisa leslie is to the wnba what michael jordan was to the nba, as if i didn't know that, as if i'm not a sports expert myself. i'm so excited to have you with me. congratulations on all your accomplishments and accolades. very excited to talk to you about why you got involved with hoopers vote. the first question i want to ask you, a lot of people out here feel like, yeah, it's an important time, but other people will vote, or i'm not that motivated because i'm not excited about either candidate, or nobody is talking to me, so i'm not talking to them. i'm going to stay home on election day. what say you to those people, madam royalty? >> first, thank you, tiffany, for having me. i am a fan of yours. i'm loving all of your work and just continue with the fight in

representing this so well. for me it's important to use my platform as we've seen all the athletes, nba, wnba, soccer, everybody, naomi osaka in tennis. our lives depend on it. i got involved with hoopers vote. obviously being a hooper. but i wanted to reach, really, the youth generation. when you talk about 40% of 18-year-olds have turned 18 since 2018, that means we have 4 million new voters that we need to say, hey, we are talking to you. between the ages of 18 and 30, quee need that young group of hoopers, people who identify us as athletes to get out there and vote, have your voices heard. and then i saw earlier, watching your show today, you have so many amazing real topics for us in our communities but voter suppression is real. i also teamed up with lebron james and more than the vote.

it's a coalition of black athletes that have gotten together to really help find ways. one of the things that has come about is that the nba owners who have been able to push to get nba arenas open so there's safe voting. there's about 30 different doors people will be able to enter safely and get their votes out there. we have to make sure that our people, all the people can get out and vote. o my god. it's so important. it's the most important thing that should be on the top of our list. getting people registered is going to be huge. get your aunts, grandmas. we need everybody 18 and over out here voting. >> i, too, am happy to be under that umbrella with you. i, too, have teamed up with the morgan vote initiative with lebron james. i'll be hosting a special on the mechanics of voting and importance of voting. i'm thrilled to be in the presence of royalty twice in

media. one thing i want to talk about with you, lisa, is the down ballot. one thing i was very fascinated by was the wnba team out of atlanta, when they wore those t-shirts. that was so hilarious to me because the republican senate candidate had talked about her disdain for the team supporting black lives matter and every single team member walked off the bus with that t-shirt. if you could talk about down balloting, senator, for your city council person. >> it's also crucial. i don't know that we've ever been in a more dire need of having votes and understanding how -- here are things that i suggest. listen, get with your family like it's a game night. learn about who is on your ballot. most importantly, the local officials who are running. who supports, you know, what you believe in. that is really important. it's not just about we're going

and voting just for the president but you also need to know who these elected officials are in your area. >> that's right. >> and how they affect you. i love the fact that the wnba, the nba, everyone is here. we're using our voices. we're using our platform. we need to communicate the importance of registering to vote and getting out there and voting. >> leslie, that's our show for today. time flies when you're trending. i see you, twitter. i'll be back there tomorrow. we'll get into scotus. for now, tune in to "weekends with alex witt" where you can see stephanie ruhle's complete interview with joe biden. ruhle'e interview with joe biden for any amount you choose instead of buying by the share. all with no commissions. stocks by the slice from fidelity. get your slice today.

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good day, everyone. it is high noon in the east, 9:00 a.m. out west. welcome to "weekends with alex witt." in a few hours, it will be official the impact amy coney barrett could make on the supreme court and america. >> i'm confident all the irresponsible, outrageousvotingn election in this country as we always have had. and and he'll leave. >> joe biden in an msnbc exclusive, taking on the president's efforts to undermine trust in the voting process. checking the pulse of the race with 38 days to go. the pages from the obama playbook that biden needs to borrow. plus how latinos might jump-start